So anyway, I've decided to change the ATF and filter on my Mercedes
E270 CDI which I keep as a spare cheap runabout. Only paid the
equivalent of 2 grand for it. It's showing 135k miles but has been
well looked after by previous owners. I know these auto boxes are
supposed to be sealed for life and maintenance-free but that's a load
of old cobblers as I think we all know by now.
Anyway, the oll pan on these 'boxes uses a 'U' section rubber gasket;
the lip around the edge of the pan fits inside this U. So I've done up
the bolts and filled it back up with ATF. They say you should warm up
the engine and check the level with it running in park after cycling
through N,P,D and R a few times. Anyway, to cut a long story short,
ATF was pissing out everywhere. I admit I got lazy and didn't use a
torque wrench to do up the bolts, but I did check to ensure the gasket
was still correctly seated over the pan's lip after doing the bolts
up. I can only think the problem came from not using a TW, but could
that really cause it? How fussy are these rubber gaskets WRT torque
settings?

On 20/06/2021 18:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> So anyway, I've decided to change the ATF and filter on my Mercedes
> E270 CDI which I keep as a spare cheap runabout. Only paid the
> equivalent of 2 grand for it. It's showing 135k miles but has been
> well looked after by previous owners. I know these auto boxes are
> supposed to be sealed for life and maintenance-free but that's a load
> of old cobblers as I think we all know by now.
> Anyway, the oll pan on these 'boxes uses a 'U' section rubber gasket;
> the lip around the edge of the pan fits inside this U. So I've done up
> the bolts and filled it back up with ATF. They say you should warm up
> the engine and check the level with it running in park after cycling
> through N,P,D and R a few times. Anyway, to cut a long story short,
> ATF was pissing out everywhere. I admit I got lazy and didn't use a
> torque wrench to do up the bolts, but I did check to ensure the gasket
> was still correctly seated over the pan's lip after doing the bolts
> up. I can only think the problem came from not using a TW, but could
> that really cause it? How fussy are these rubber gaskets WRT torque
> settings?
>

My bet would be that you have got a mechanical problem somewhere,
perhaps a cut gasket or a significant lump of trapped debris.

Garages use pumps to suck out oil out from sump and gearbox fillers for
a reason.

On 20 Jun 2021 at 21:01:20 BST, "newshound" <newshound@stevejqr.plus.com>
wrote:

> On 20/06/2021 18:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>> So anyway, I've decided to change the ATF and filter on my Mercedes
>> E270 CDI which I keep as a spare cheap runabout. Only paid the
>> equivalent of 2 grand for it. It's showing 135k miles but has been
>> well looked after by previous owners. I know these auto boxes are
>> supposed to be sealed for life and maintenance-free but that's a load
>> of old cobblers as I think we all know by now.
>> Anyway, the oll pan on these 'boxes uses a 'U' section rubber gasket;
>> the lip around the edge of the pan fits inside this U. So I've done up
>> the bolts and filled it back up with ATF. They say you should warm up
>> the engine and check the level with it running in park after cycling
>> through N,P,D and R a few times. Anyway, to cut a long story short,
>> ATF was pissing out everywhere. I admit I got lazy and didn't use a
>> torque wrench to do up the bolts, but I did check to ensure the gasket
>> was still correctly seated over the pan's lip after doing the bolts
>> up. I can only think the problem came from not using a TW, but could
>> that really cause it? How fussy are these rubber gaskets WRT torque
>> settings?
>>
>
> My bet would be that you have got a mechanical problem somewhere,
> perhaps a cut gasket or a significant lump of trapped debris.

Yes, that and/or the securing bolts weren't torqued up to the same level,
causing the cover to warp slightly - easily done if access difficult. Learnt
this the hard way with a water pump cover.

Consistent torquing is at least as important as level.

>
> Garages use pumps to suck out oil out from sump and gearbox fillers for
> a reason.

--
Cheers, Rob

On 21/06/2021 07:44, RJH wrote:
> On 20 Jun 2021 at 21:01:20 BST, "newshound" <newshound@stevejqr.plus.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 20/06/2021 18:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>> So anyway, I've decided to change the ATF and filter on my Mercedes
>>> E270 CDI which I keep as a spare cheap runabout. Only paid the
>>> equivalent of 2 grand for it. It's showing 135k miles but has been
>>> well looked after by previous owners. I know these auto boxes are
>>> supposed to be sealed for life and maintenance-free but that's a load
>>> of old cobblers as I think we all know by now.
>>> Anyway, the oll pan on these 'boxes uses a 'U' section rubber gasket;
>>> the lip around the edge of the pan fits inside this U. So I've done up
>>> the bolts and filled it back up with ATF. They say you should warm up
>>> the engine and check the level with it running in park after cycling
>>> through N,P,D and R a few times. Anyway, to cut a long story short,
>>> ATF was pissing out everywhere. I admit I got lazy and didn't use a
>>> torque wrench to do up the bolts, but I did check to ensure the gasket
>>> was still correctly seated over the pan's lip after doing the bolts
>>> up. I can only think the problem came from not using a TW, but could
>>> that really cause it? How fussy are these rubber gaskets WRT torque
>>> settings?
>>>
>>
>> My bet would be that you have got a mechanical problem somewhere,
>> perhaps a cut gasket or a significant lump of trapped debris.
>
> Yes, that and/or the securing bolts weren't torqued up to the same level,
> causing the cover to warp slightly - easily done if access difficult. Learnt
> this the hard way with a water pump cover.
>
> Consistent torquing is at least as important as level.
>

Agree 100%. I don't know the geometry of that sump, but traditional
pressed steel engine sumps with thick cork gaskets usually had lots of
bolts, making them slightly less sensitive. Water pumps were always
prone to that.

On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 10:41:17 +0100, newshound
<newshound@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote:

>On 21/06/2021 07:44, RJH wrote:
>> On 20 Jun 2021 at 21:01:20 BST, "newshound" <newshound@stevejqr.plus.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 20/06/2021 18:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>> So anyway, I've decided to change the ATF and filter on my Mercedes
>>>> E270 CDI which I keep as a spare cheap runabout. Only paid the
>>>> equivalent of 2 grand for it. It's showing 135k miles but has been
>>>> well looked after by previous owners. I know these auto boxes are
>>>> supposed to be sealed for life and maintenance-free but that's a load
>>>> of old cobblers as I think we all know by now.
>>>> Anyway, the oll pan on these 'boxes uses a 'U' section rubber gasket;
>>>> the lip around the edge of the pan fits inside this U. So I've done up
>>>> the bolts and filled it back up with ATF. They say you should warm up
>>>> the engine and check the level with it running in park after cycling
>>>> through N,P,D and R a few times. Anyway, to cut a long story short,
>>>> ATF was pissing out everywhere. I admit I got lazy and didn't use a
>>>> torque wrench to do up the bolts, but I did check to ensure the gasket
>>>> was still correctly seated over the pan's lip after doing the bolts
>>>> up. I can only think the problem came from not using a TW, but could
>>>> that really cause it? How fussy are these rubber gaskets WRT torque
>>>> settings?
>>>>
>>>
>>> My bet would be that you have got a mechanical problem somewhere,
>>> perhaps a cut gasket or a significant lump of trapped debris.
>>
>> Yes, that and/or the securing bolts weren't torqued up to the same level,
>> causing the cover to warp slightly - easily done if access difficult. Learnt
>> this the hard way with a water pump cover.
>>
>> Consistent torquing is at least as important as level.
>>
>
>Agree 100%. I don't know the geometry of that sump,

Dunno why I didn't think of just posting a link to the damn thing!

https://tinyurl.com/zey2m648

This is the top view they're showing, so the hollow of the 'U' section
that the lip of the pan fits into is not visible from this angle.

On 21/06/2021 14:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 10:41:17 +0100, newshound
> <newshound@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote:
>
>> On 21/06/2021 07:44, RJH wrote:
>>> On 20 Jun 2021 at 21:01:20 BST, "newshound" <newshound@stevejqr.plus.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 20/06/2021 18:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>> So anyway, I've decided to change the ATF and filter on my Mercedes
>>>>> E270 CDI which I keep as a spare cheap runabout. Only paid the
>>>>> equivalent of 2 grand for it. It's showing 135k miles but has been
>>>>> well looked after by previous owners. I know these auto boxes are
>>>>> supposed to be sealed for life and maintenance-free but that's a load
>>>>> of old cobblers as I think we all know by now.
>>>>> Anyway, the oll pan on these 'boxes uses a 'U' section rubber gasket;
>>>>> the lip around the edge of the pan fits inside this U. So I've done up
>>>>> the bolts and filled it back up with ATF. They say you should warm up
>>>>> the engine and check the level with it running in park after cycling
>>>>> through N,P,D and R a few times. Anyway, to cut a long story short,
>>>>> ATF was pissing out everywhere. I admit I got lazy and didn't use a
>>>>> torque wrench to do up the bolts, but I did check to ensure the gasket
>>>>> was still correctly seated over the pan's lip after doing the bolts
>>>>> up. I can only think the problem came from not using a TW, but could
>>>>> that really cause it? How fussy are these rubber gaskets WRT torque
>>>>> settings?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My bet would be that you have got a mechanical problem somewhere,
>>>> perhaps a cut gasket or a significant lump of trapped debris.
>>>
>>> Yes, that and/or the securing bolts weren't torqued up to the same level,
>>> causing the cover to warp slightly - easily done if access difficult. Learnt
>>> this the hard way with a water pump cover.
>>>
>>> Consistent torquing is at least as important as level.
>>>
>>
>> Agree 100%. I don't know the geometry of that sump,
>
>
> Dunno why I didn't think of just posting a link to the damn thing!
>
> https://tinyurl.com/zey2m648
>
> This is the top view they're showing, so the hollow of the 'U' section
> that the lip of the pan fits into is not visible from this angle.
>
I'm guessing it does not have that many bolts then. That said, I'd
expect a Merc sump cover to be pretty well designed against deformation
either from variable torque or temperature effects. IME relatively thick
rubber gaskets and washers, provided they are adequately constrained,
are normally *very* reliable. As I said, I'd expect the cause to be
large debris or damage to one of the three parts, all of which should be
revealed on dismantling.

In article <ap-dnavTbNUMA1L9nZ2dnUU78T3NnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>,
newshound <newshound@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote:
> On 20/06/2021 18:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> > So anyway, I've decided to change the ATF and filter on my Mercedes
> > E270 CDI which I keep as a spare cheap runabout. Only paid the
> > equivalent of 2 grand for it. It's showing 135k miles but has been
> > well looked after by previous owners. I know these auto boxes are
> > supposed to be sealed for life and maintenance-free but that's a load
> > of old cobblers as I think we all know by now.
> > Anyway, the oll pan on these 'boxes uses a 'U' section rubber gasket;
> > the lip around the edge of the pan fits inside this U. So I've done up
> > the bolts and filled it back up with ATF. They say you should warm up
> > the engine and check the level with it running in park after cycling
> > through N,P,D and R a few times. Anyway, to cut a long story short,
> > ATF was pissing out everywhere. I admit I got lazy and didn't use a
> > torque wrench to do up the bolts, but I did check to ensure the gasket
> > was still correctly seated over the pan's lip after doing the bolts
> > up. I can only think the problem came from not using a TW, but could
> > that really cause it? How fussy are these rubber gaskets WRT torque
> > settings?
> >

> My bet would be that you have got a mechanical problem somewhere,
> perhaps a cut gasket or a significant lump of trapped debris.

> Garages use pumps to suck out oil out from sump and gearbox fillers for
> a reason.

Many autos require a filter change at the same time as the very infrequent
fluid changes.

--
*The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on my list.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 22 Jun 2021 15:48:52 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <ap-dnavTbNUMA1L9nZ2dnUU78T3NnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>,
> newshound <newshound@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote:
>> On 20/06/2021 18:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>> > So anyway, I've decided to change the ATF and filter on my Mercedes
>> > E270 CDI which I keep as a spare cheap runabout. Only paid the
>> > equivalent of 2 grand for it. It's showing 135k miles but has been
>> > well looked after by previous owners. I know these auto boxes are
>> > supposed to be sealed for life and maintenance-free but that's a load
>> > of old cobblers as I think we all know by now.
>> > Anyway, the oll pan on these 'boxes uses a 'U' section rubber gasket;
>> > the lip around the edge of the pan fits inside this U. So I've done up
>> > the bolts and filled it back up with ATF. They say you should warm up
>> > the engine and check the level with it running in park after cycling
>> > through N,P,D and R a few times. Anyway, to cut a long story short,
>> > ATF was pissing out everywhere. I admit I got lazy and didn't use a
>> > torque wrench to do up the bolts, but I did check to ensure the gasket
>> > was still correctly seated over the pan's lip after doing the bolts
>> > up. I can only think the problem came from not using a TW, but could
>> > that really cause it? How fussy are these rubber gaskets WRT torque
>> > settings?
>> >
>
>> My bet would be that you have got a mechanical problem somewhere,
>> perhaps a cut gasket or a significant lump of trapped debris.
>
>> Garages use pumps to suck out oil out from sump and gearbox fillers for
>> a reason.
>
>Many autos require a filter change at the same time as the very infrequent
>fluid changes.

These aren't the monolithic type built in to the pan like some are.
But they're just push-in; couldn't be simpler so yes, I'll be changing
that at the same time.

On Tue, 22 Jun 2021 13:45:43 +0100, newshound
<newshound@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote:

>On 21/06/2021 14:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 10:41:17 +0100, newshound
>> <newshound@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 21/06/2021 07:44, RJH wrote:
>>>> On 20 Jun 2021 at 21:01:20 BST, "newshound" <newshound@stevejqr.plus.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 20/06/2021 18:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>> So anyway, I've decided to change the ATF and filter on my Mercedes
>>>>>> E270 CDI which I keep as a spare cheap runabout. Only paid the
>>>>>> equivalent of 2 grand for it. It's showing 135k miles but has been
>>>>>> well looked after by previous owners. I know these auto boxes are
>>>>>> supposed to be sealed for life and maintenance-free but that's a load
>>>>>> of old cobblers as I think we all know by now.
>>>>>> Anyway, the oll pan on these 'boxes uses a 'U' section rubber gasket;
>>>>>> the lip around the edge of the pan fits inside this U. So I've done up
>>>>>> the bolts and filled it back up with ATF. They say you should warm up
>>>>>> the engine and check the level with it running in park after cycling
>>>>>> through N,P,D and R a few times. Anyway, to cut a long story short,
>>>>>> ATF was pissing out everywhere. I admit I got lazy and didn't use a
>>>>>> torque wrench to do up the bolts, but I did check to ensure the gasket
>>>>>> was still correctly seated over the pan's lip after doing the bolts
>>>>>> up. I can only think the problem came from not using a TW, but could
>>>>>> that really cause it? How fussy are these rubber gaskets WRT torque
>>>>>> settings?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My bet would be that you have got a mechanical problem somewhere,
>>>>> perhaps a cut gasket or a significant lump of trapped debris.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, that and/or the securing bolts weren't torqued up to the same level,
>>>> causing the cover to warp slightly - easily done if access difficult. Learnt
>>>> this the hard way with a water pump cover.
>>>>
>>>> Consistent torquing is at least as important as level.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Agree 100%. I don't know the geometry of that sump,
>>
>>
>> Dunno why I didn't think of just posting a link to the damn thing!
>>
>> https://tinyurl.com/zey2m648
>>
>> This is the top view they're showing, so the hollow of the 'U' section
>> that the lip of the pan fits into is not visible from this angle.
>>
>I'm guessing it does not have that many bolts then. That said, I'd
>expect a Merc sump cover to be pretty well designed against deformation
>either from variable torque or temperature effects. IME relatively thick
>rubber gaskets and washers, provided they are adequately constrained,
>are normally *very* reliable. As I said, I'd expect the cause to be
>large debris or damage to one of the three parts, all of which should be
>revealed on dismantling.

Duly noted, Newsy. I only suspected it was deformation because I'd
reached the point where the bolts wouldn't turn any more - which
didn't seem right and no, they were not x-threaded or anything. And
this was at no great torque, too. I do have a TW ideal for this
purpose but couldn't grab it without getting out from under the car
and walking 20' and back. An unforgivable bit of laziness on my part I
admit. :(