On 14/10/2022 15:15, FromTheRafters wrote:
> David Brooks brought next idea :
>> On 14/10/2022 10:12, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>> David Brooks submitted this idea :
>>>> On 13/10/2022 23:03, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>> on 10/13/2022, Snit supposed :
>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 2:42:17 PM MST, "FromTheRafters" wrote
>>>>>> <tia0nv$1si3f$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Snit wrote on 10/13/2022 :
>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 1:40:47 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>> <jJ_1L.1354594$YC96.1352147@fx12.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 21:25, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In article <jtX1L.1518135$Eeb3.1264275@fx05.ams1>, David Brooks
>>>>>>>>>> <BDB@not.on.your.life> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU explain how the videos of Savageduck found their
>>>>>>>>>>>>> way onto my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> you put them there.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *HOW* do you think I did that?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU put Savageduck's videos onto YOUR iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If so, please explain how that is achievable.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> you told macos to automatically sync files to icloud.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> unlike sentient beings who know better, it does what you tell
>>>>>>>>>> it to do.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks. None of my other video links were shown in my iCloud Drive
>>>>>>>>> and when I play one of Savageduck's links NOW it doesn't show
>>>>>>>>> up in my
>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What link?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You clicked some links, I think, and watched videos.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You have files in your iCloud drive. Maybe even the same videos?
>>>>>>>> But how are these things connected? Clicking a link to watch a
>>>>>>>> video does not save files, to your iCloud dive or elsewhere.
>>>>>>>> Maybe if you have you cache set there... something like that.
>>>>>>>> But then it would be other files.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Normally, downloading and watching a video wouldn't cause the
>>>>>>> soundtrack to disappear either. BD's computers are exceptional.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It you share a file with iCloud it seems Apple does put it in the
>>>>>> iCloud
>>>>>> drives of those who view it.
>>>>>
>>>>> So it seems, but where is it stated. I think it was mentioned when
>>>>> I viewed some of the presentations about the new OS which came with
>>>>> the laptop. Anyway, it's no big deal IMO.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, it MIGHT be a big deal!
>>>>
>>>> Apple doesn't look into, or check, the iCloud Drive.
>>>>
>>>> Anti-malware companies do not have access to the iCloud Drive.
>>>>
>>>> It is a perfect place for something malicious to lurk with nobody
>>>> noticing that it is there.
>>>>
>>>> Just a thought.
>>>
>>> Yes, things can hide in storage. They can't execute though.
>>
>> My question to Apd was/is ........ What can fish them out?
>
> A tool with sufficient privilege could. But then, you would have to
> trust the tool, which is a difficult thing for you to do.

I hoped that you would agree that a tool with sufficient acumen COULD
move malicious software hiding on an iCloud Drive back onto the main
hard drive of a computer (Regardless of the operating system).

Have I understood you correctly?

--
David

David Brooks wrote :
> On 14/10/2022 15:15, FromTheRafters wrote:
>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>> On 14/10/2022 10:12, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>> David Brooks submitted this idea :
>>>>> On 13/10/2022 23:03, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>> on 10/13/2022, Snit supposed :
>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 2:42:17 PM MST, "FromTheRafters" wrote
>>>>>>> <tia0nv$1si3f$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Snit wrote on 10/13/2022 :
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 1:40:47 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>> <jJ_1L.1354594$YC96.1352147@fx12.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 21:25, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In article <jtX1L.1518135$Eeb3.1264275@fx05.ams1>, David Brooks
>>>>>>>>>>> <BDB@not.on.your.life> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU explain how the videos of Savageduck found their way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> onto my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you put them there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *HOW* do you think I did that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU put Savageduck's videos onto YOUR iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, please explain how that is achievable.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> you told macos to automatically sync files to icloud.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> unlike sentient beings who know better, it does what you tell it
>>>>>>>>>>> to do.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. None of my other video links were shown in my iCloud Drive
>>>>>>>>>> and when I play one of Savageduck's links NOW it doesn't show up in
>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What link?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You clicked some links, I think, and watched videos.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You have files in your iCloud drive. Maybe even the same videos? But
>>>>>>>>> how are these things connected? Clicking a link to watch a video
>>>>>>>>> does not save files, to your iCloud dive or elsewhere. Maybe if you
>>>>>>>>> have you cache set there... something like that. But then it would
>>>>>>>>> be other files.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Normally, downloading and watching a video wouldn't cause the
>>>>>>>> soundtrack to disappear either. BD's computers are exceptional.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It you share a file with iCloud it seems Apple does put it in the
>>>>>>> iCloud
>>>>>>> drives of those who view it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So it seems, but where is it stated. I think it was mentioned when I
>>>>>> viewed some of the presentations about the new OS which came with the
>>>>>> laptop. Anyway, it's no big deal IMO.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, it MIGHT be a big deal!
>>>>>
>>>>> Apple doesn't look into, or check, the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anti-malware companies do not have access to the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is a perfect place for something malicious to lurk with nobody
>>>>> noticing that it is there.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, things can hide in storage. They can't execute though.
>>>
>>> My question to Apd was/is ........ What can fish them out?
>>
>> A tool with sufficient privilege could. But then, you would have to trust
>> the tool, which is a difficult thing for you to do.
>
> I hoped that you would agree that a tool with sufficient acumen COULD move
> malicious software hiding on an iCloud Drive back onto the main hard drive of
> a computer (Regardless of the operating system).
>
> Have I understood you correctly?

No, I said privilege.

On 14/10/2022 17:08, FromTheRafters wrote:
> David Brooks wrote :
>> On 14/10/2022 15:15, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>> On 14/10/2022 10:12, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>> David Brooks submitted this idea :
>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 23:03, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>> on 10/13/2022, Snit supposed :
>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 2:42:17 PM MST, "FromTheRafters" wrote
>>>>>>>> <tia0nv$1si3f$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Snit wrote on 10/13/2022 :
>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 1:40:47 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>>> <jJ_1L.1354594$YC96.1352147@fx12.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 21:25, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <jtX1L.1518135$Eeb3.1264275@fx05.ams1>, David Brooks
>>>>>>>>>>>> <BDB@not.on.your.life> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU explain how the videos of Savageduck found their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way onto my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you put them there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *HOW* do you think I did that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU put Savageduck's videos onto YOUR iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, please explain how that is achievable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> you told macos to automatically sync files to icloud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> unlike sentient beings who know better, it does what you
>>>>>>>>>>>> tell it to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. None of my other video links were shown in my iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>> Drive
>>>>>>>>>>> and when I play one of Savageduck's links NOW it doesn't show
>>>>>>>>>>> up in my
>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What link?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You clicked some links, I think, and watched videos.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You have files in your iCloud drive. Maybe even the same
>>>>>>>>>> videos? But how are these things connected? Clicking a link to
>>>>>>>>>> watch a video does not save files, to your iCloud dive or
>>>>>>>>>> elsewhere. Maybe if you have you cache set there... something
>>>>>>>>>> like that. But then it would be other files.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Normally, downloading and watching a video wouldn't cause the
>>>>>>>>> soundtrack to disappear either. BD's computers are exceptional.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It you share a file with iCloud it seems Apple does put it in
>>>>>>>> the iCloud
>>>>>>>> drives of those who view it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So it seems, but where is it stated. I think it was mentioned
>>>>>>> when I viewed some of the presentations about the new OS which
>>>>>>> came with the laptop. Anyway, it's no big deal IMO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, it MIGHT be a big deal!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apple doesn't look into, or check, the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anti-malware companies do not have access to the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is a perfect place for something malicious to lurk with nobody
>>>>>> noticing that it is there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, things can hide in storage. They can't execute though.
>>>>
>>>> My question to Apd was/is ........ What can fish them out?
>>>
>>> A tool with sufficient privilege could. But then, you would have to
>>> trust the tool, which is a difficult thing for you to do.
>>
>> I hoped that you would agree that a tool with sufficient acumen COULD
>> move malicious software hiding on an iCloud Drive back onto the main
>> hard drive of a computer (Regardless of the operating system).
>>
>> Have I understood you correctly?
>
> No, I said privilege.

Please explain why that subtle difference would change the outcome.

Thanks.

David Brooks brought next idea :
> On 14/10/2022 17:08, FromTheRafters wrote:
>> David Brooks wrote :
>>> On 14/10/2022 15:15, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>> On 14/10/2022 10:12, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>> David Brooks submitted this idea :
>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 23:03, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>> on 10/13/2022, Snit supposed :
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 2:42:17 PM MST, "FromTheRafters" wrote
>>>>>>>>> <tia0nv$1si3f$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Snit wrote on 10/13/2022 :
>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 1:40:47 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> <jJ_1L.1354594$YC96.1352147@fx12.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 21:25, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <jtX1L.1518135$Eeb3.1264275@fx05.ams1>, David Brooks
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <BDB@not.on.your.life> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU explain how the videos of Savageduck found their way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> onto my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you put them there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *HOW* do you think I did that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU put Savageduck's videos onto YOUR iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, please explain how that is achievable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you told macos to automatically sync files to icloud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> unlike sentient beings who know better, it does what you tell it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. None of my other video links were shown in my iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>> Drive
>>>>>>>>>>>> and when I play one of Savageduck's links NOW it doesn't show up
>>>>>>>>>>>> in my
>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What link?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You clicked some links, I think, and watched videos.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You have files in your iCloud drive. Maybe even the same videos?
>>>>>>>>>>> But how are these things connected? Clicking a link to watch a
>>>>>>>>>>> video does not save files, to your iCloud dive or elsewhere. Maybe
>>>>>>>>>>> if you have you cache set there... something like that. But then
>>>>>>>>>>> it would be other files.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Normally, downloading and watching a video wouldn't cause the
>>>>>>>>>> soundtrack to disappear either. BD's computers are exceptional.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It you share a file with iCloud it seems Apple does put it in the
>>>>>>>>> iCloud
>>>>>>>>> drives of those who view it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So it seems, but where is it stated. I think it was mentioned when I
>>>>>>>> viewed some of the presentations about the new OS which came with the
>>>>>>>> laptop. Anyway, it's no big deal IMO.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, it MIGHT be a big deal!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apple doesn't look into, or check, the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anti-malware companies do not have access to the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is a perfect place for something malicious to lurk with nobody
>>>>>>> noticing that it is there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, things can hide in storage. They can't execute though.
>>>>>
>>>>> My question to Apd was/is ........ What can fish them out?
>>>>
>>>> A tool with sufficient privilege could. But then, you would have to trust
>>>> the tool, which is a difficult thing for you to do.
>>>
>>> I hoped that you would agree that a tool with sufficient acumen COULD move
>>> malicious software hiding on an iCloud Drive back onto the main hard drive
>>> of a computer (Regardless of the operating system).
>>>
>>> Have I understood you correctly?
>>
>> No, I said privilege.
>
> Please explain why that subtle difference would change the outcome.
>
> Thanks.

Scanning an encrypted file won't work, scanning a decrypted file will.

On 14/10/2022 18:45, FromTheRafters wrote:
> David Brooks brought next idea :
>> On 14/10/2022 17:08, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>> David Brooks wrote :
>>>> On 14/10/2022 15:15, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 10:12, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>> David Brooks submitted this idea :
>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 23:03, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>> on 10/13/2022, Snit supposed :
>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 2:42:17 PM MST, "FromTheRafters" wrote
>>>>>>>>>> <tia0nv$1si3f$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Snit wrote on 10/13/2022 :
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 1:40:47 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> <jJ_1L.1354594$YC96.1352147@fx12.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 21:25, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <jtX1L.1518135$Eeb3.1264275@fx05.ams1>, David
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brooks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <BDB@not.on.your.life> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU explain how the videos of Savageduck found
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their way onto my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you put them there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *HOW* do you think I did that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU put Savageduck's videos onto YOUR iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, please explain how that is achievable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you told macos to automatically sync files to icloud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unlike sentient beings who know better, it does what you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell it to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. None of my other video links were shown in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and when I play one of Savageduck's links NOW it doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> show up in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What link?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You clicked some links, I think, and watched videos.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You have files in your iCloud drive. Maybe even the same
>>>>>>>>>>>> videos? But how are these things connected? Clicking a link
>>>>>>>>>>>> to watch a video does not save files, to your iCloud dive or
>>>>>>>>>>>> elsewhere. Maybe if you have you cache set there...
>>>>>>>>>>>> something like that. But then it would be other files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Normally, downloading and watching a video wouldn't cause the
>>>>>>>>>>> soundtrack to disappear either. BD's computers are exceptional.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It you share a file with iCloud it seems Apple does put it in
>>>>>>>>>> the iCloud
>>>>>>>>>> drives of those who view it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So it seems, but where is it stated. I think it was mentioned
>>>>>>>>> when I viewed some of the presentations about the new OS which
>>>>>>>>> came with the laptop. Anyway, it's no big deal IMO.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, it MIGHT be a big deal!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Apple doesn't look into, or check, the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anti-malware companies do not have access to the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is a perfect place for something malicious to lurk with
>>>>>>>> nobody noticing that it is there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, things can hide in storage. They can't execute though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My question to Apd was/is ........ What can fish them out?
>>>>>
>>>>> A tool with sufficient privilege could. But then, you would have to
>>>>> trust the tool, which is a difficult thing for you to do.
>>>>
>>>> I hoped that you would agree that a tool with sufficient acumen
>>>> COULD move malicious software hiding on an iCloud Drive back onto
>>>> the main hard drive of a computer (Regardless of the operating system).
>>>>
>>>> Have I understood you correctly?
>>>
>>> No, I said privilege.
>>
>> Please explain why that subtle difference would change the outcome.
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> Scanning an encrypted file won't work, scanning a decrypted file will.

You appear to have changed your stance. I'm puzzled.

You said "Yes, things can hide in storage".

Encryption is irrelevant. Neither Apple nor any Commercial anti-malware
software (as far as I'm aware) can ACCESS one's iCloud Drive to scan it.

Please comment.

--
David

It happens that David Brooks formulated :
> On 14/10/2022 18:45, FromTheRafters wrote:
>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>> On 14/10/2022 17:08, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>> David Brooks wrote :
>>>>> On 14/10/2022 15:15, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 10:12, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>> David Brooks submitted this idea :
>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 23:03, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> on 10/13/2022, Snit supposed :
>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 2:42:17 PM MST, "FromTheRafters" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> <tia0nv$1si3f$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Snit wrote on 10/13/2022 :
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 1:40:47 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <jJ_1L.1354594$YC96.1352147@fx12.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 21:25, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <jtX1L.1518135$Eeb3.1264275@fx05.ams1>, David
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brooks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <BDB@not.on.your.life> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU explain how the videos of Savageduck found their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way onto my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you put them there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *HOW* do you think I did that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU put Savageduck's videos onto YOUR iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, please explain how that is achievable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you told macos to automatically sync files to icloud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unlike sentient beings who know better, it does what you tell
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. None of my other video links were shown in my iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Drive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and when I play one of Savageduck's links NOW it doesn't show
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What link?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You clicked some links, I think, and watched videos.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have files in your iCloud drive. Maybe even the same videos?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But how are these things connected? Clicking a link to watch a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> video does not save files, to your iCloud dive or elsewhere.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe if you have you cache set there... something like that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But then it would be other files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Normally, downloading and watching a video wouldn't cause the
>>>>>>>>>>>> soundtrack to disappear either. BD's computers are exceptional.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It you share a file with iCloud it seems Apple does put it in the
>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>> drives of those who view it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So it seems, but where is it stated. I think it was mentioned when
>>>>>>>>>> I viewed some of the presentations about the new OS which came with
>>>>>>>>>> the laptop. Anyway, it's no big deal IMO.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, it MIGHT be a big deal!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Apple doesn't look into, or check, the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anti-malware companies do not have access to the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is a perfect place for something malicious to lurk with nobody
>>>>>>>>> noticing that it is there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, things can hide in storage. They can't execute though.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My question to Apd was/is ........ What can fish them out?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A tool with sufficient privilege could. But then, you would have to
>>>>>> trust the tool, which is a difficult thing for you to do.
>>>>>
>>>>> I hoped that you would agree that a tool with sufficient acumen COULD
>>>>> move malicious software hiding on an iCloud Drive back onto the main
>>>>> hard drive of a computer (Regardless of the operating system).
>>>>>
>>>>> Have I understood you correctly?
>>>>
>>>> No, I said privilege.
>>>
>>> Please explain why that subtle difference would change the outcome.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> Scanning an encrypted file won't work, scanning a decrypted file will.
>
> You appear to have changed your stance. I'm puzzled.
>
> You said "Yes, things can hide in storage".
>
> Encryption is irrelevant. Neither Apple nor any Commercial anti-malware
> software (as far as I'm aware) can ACCESS one's iCloud Drive to scan it.
>
> Please comment.

It makes little sense to scan encrypted data at rest for signatures or
nefarious activity. When you decrypt it, you can then scan it.

On 14/10/2022 21:52, FromTheRafters wrote:
> It happens that David Brooks formulated :
>> On 14/10/2022 18:45, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>> On 14/10/2022 17:08, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>> David Brooks wrote :
>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 15:15, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 10:12, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>> David Brooks submitted this idea :
>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 23:03, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> on 10/13/2022, Snit supposed :
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 2:42:17 PM MST, "FromTheRafters" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> <tia0nv$1si3f$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snit wrote on 10/13/2022 :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 1:40:47 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <jJ_1L.1354594$YC96.1352147@fx12.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 21:25, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <jtX1L.1518135$Eeb3.1264275@fx05.ams1>, David
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brooks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <BDB@not.on.your.life> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU explain how the videos of Savageduck found
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their way onto my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you put them there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *HOW* do you think I did that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU put Savageduck's videos onto YOUR iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, please explain how that is achievable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you told macos to automatically sync files to icloud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unlike sentient beings who know better, it does what you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell it to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. None of my other video links were shown in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and when I play one of Savageduck's links NOW it doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> show up in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What link?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You clicked some links, I think, and watched videos.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have files in your iCloud drive. Maybe even the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> videos? But how are these things connected? Clicking a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> link to watch a video does not save files, to your iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dive or elsewhere. Maybe if you have you cache set
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there... something like that. But then it would be other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Normally, downloading and watching a video wouldn't cause the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> soundtrack to disappear either. BD's computers are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> exceptional.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It you share a file with iCloud it seems Apple does put it
>>>>>>>>>>>> in the iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>> drives of those who view it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So it seems, but where is it stated. I think it was mentioned
>>>>>>>>>>> when I viewed some of the presentations about the new OS
>>>>>>>>>>> which came with the laptop. Anyway, it's no big deal IMO.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well, it MIGHT be a big deal!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Apple doesn't look into, or check, the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Anti-malware companies do not have access to the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It is a perfect place for something malicious to lurk with
>>>>>>>>>> nobody noticing that it is there.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, things can hide in storage. They can't execute though.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My question to Apd was/is ........ What can fish them out?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A tool with sufficient privilege could. But then, you would have
>>>>>>> to trust the tool, which is a difficult thing for you to do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hoped that you would agree that a tool with sufficient acumen
>>>>>> COULD move malicious software hiding on an iCloud Drive back onto
>>>>>> the main hard drive of a computer (Regardless of the operating
>>>>>> system).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have I understood you correctly?
>>>>>
>>>>> No, I said privilege.
>>>>
>>>> Please explain why that subtle difference would change the outcome.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Scanning an encrypted file won't work, scanning a decrypted file will.
>>
>> You appear to have changed your stance. I'm puzzled.
>>
>> You said "Yes, things can hide in storage".
>>
>> Encryption is irrelevant. Neither Apple nor any Commercial anti-malware
>> software (as far as I'm aware) can ACCESS one's iCloud Drive to scan it.
>>
>> Please comment.
>
> It makes little sense to scan encrypted data at rest for signatures or
> nefarious activity. When you decrypt it, you can then scan it.

What makes you think that malicious software/code hiding in plain sight
on one's iCloud Drive will be encrypted? Surely, it might NOT be encrypted?

On Oct 14, 2022 at 2:19:14 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
<mnk2L.1655739$%q2.1524958@fx15.ams1>:

>>> You appear to have changed your stance. I'm puzzled.
>>>
>>> You said "Yes, things can hide in storage".
>>>
>>> Encryption is irrelevant. Neither Apple nor any Commercial anti-malware
>>> software (as far as I'm aware) can ACCESS one's iCloud Drive to scan it.
>>>
>>> Please comment.
>>
>> It makes little sense to scan encrypted data at rest for signatures or
>> nefarious activity. When you decrypt it, you can then scan it.
>
> What makes you think that malicious software/code hiding in plain sight
> on one's iCloud Drive will be encrypted? Surely, it might NOT be encrypted?

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
-----
End-to-end encryption
-----

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On 14/10/2022 22:37, Snit wrote:
> On Oct 14, 2022 at 2:19:14 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
> <mnk2L.1655739$%q2.1524958@fx15.ams1>:
>
>>>> You appear to have changed your stance. I'm puzzled.
>>>>
>>>> You said "Yes, things can hide in storage".
>>>>
>>>> Encryption is irrelevant. Neither Apple nor any Commercial anti-malware
>>>> software (as far as I'm aware) can ACCESS one's iCloud Drive to scan it.
>>>>
>>>> Please comment.
>>>
>>> It makes little sense to scan encrypted data at rest for signatures or
>>> nefarious activity. When you decrypt it, you can then scan it.
>>
>> What makes you think that malicious software/code hiding in plain sight
>> on one's iCloud Drive will be encrypted? Surely, it might NOT be encrypted?
>
> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
> -----
> End-to-end encryption
> -----

Spot-on Snit! :-D

I just KNEW you would find the answer/evidence!

On Oct 14, 2022 at 3:37:53 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
<5xl2L.1084152$vFVf.443999@fx02.ams1>:

> On 14/10/2022 22:37, Snit wrote:
>> On Oct 14, 2022 at 2:19:14 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>> <mnk2L.1655739$%q2.1524958@fx15.ams1>:
>>
>>>>> You appear to have changed your stance. I'm puzzled.
>>>>>
>>>>> You said "Yes, things can hide in storage".
>>>>>
>>>>> Encryption is irrelevant. Neither Apple nor any Commercial anti-malware
>>>>> software (as far as I'm aware) can ACCESS one's iCloud Drive to scan it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please comment.
>>>>
>>>> It makes little sense to scan encrypted data at rest for signatures or
>>>> nefarious activity. When you decrypt it, you can then scan it.
>>>
>>> What makes you think that malicious software/code hiding in plain sight
>>> on one's iCloud Drive will be encrypted? Surely, it might NOT be encrypted?
>>
>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
>> -----
>> End-to-end encryption
>> -----
>
> Spot-on Snit! :-D
>
> I just KNEW you would find the answer/evidence!

Thanks.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

David Brooks wrote :
> On 14/10/2022 21:52, FromTheRafters wrote:
>> It happens that David Brooks formulated :
>>> On 14/10/2022 18:45, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>> On 14/10/2022 17:08, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>> David Brooks wrote :
>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 15:15, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 10:12, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks submitted this idea :
>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 23:03, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> on 10/13/2022, Snit supposed :
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 2:42:17 PM MST, "FromTheRafters" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <tia0nv$1si3f$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snit wrote on 10/13/2022 :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 1:40:47 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <jJ_1L.1354594$YC96.1352147@fx12.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 21:25, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <jtX1L.1518135$Eeb3.1264275@fx05.ams1>, David
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brooks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <BDB@not.on.your.life> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU explain how the videos of Savageduck found their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way onto my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you put them there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *HOW* do you think I did that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU put Savageduck's videos onto YOUR iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, please explain how that is achievable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you told macos to automatically sync files to icloud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unlike sentient beings who know better, it does what you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell it to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. None of my other video links were shown in my iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Drive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and when I play one of Savageduck's links NOW it doesn't show
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What link?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You clicked some links, I think, and watched videos.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have files in your iCloud drive. Maybe even the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> videos? But how are these things connected? Clicking a link to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> watch a video does not save files, to your iCloud dive or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elsewhere. Maybe if you have you cache set there... something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like that. But then it would be other files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Normally, downloading and watching a video wouldn't cause the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soundtrack to disappear either. BD's computers are exceptional.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It you share a file with iCloud it seems Apple does put it in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>> drives of those who view it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So it seems, but where is it stated. I think it was mentioned
>>>>>>>>>>>> when I viewed some of the presentations about the new OS which
>>>>>>>>>>>> came with the laptop. Anyway, it's no big deal IMO.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, it MIGHT be a big deal!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Apple doesn't look into, or check, the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Anti-malware companies do not have access to the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It is a perfect place for something malicious to lurk with nobody
>>>>>>>>>>> noticing that it is there.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, things can hide in storage. They can't execute though.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My question to Apd was/is ........ What can fish them out?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A tool with sufficient privilege could. But then, you would have to
>>>>>>>> trust the tool, which is a difficult thing for you to do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hoped that you would agree that a tool with sufficient acumen COULD
>>>>>>> move malicious software hiding on an iCloud Drive back onto the main
>>>>>>> hard drive of a computer (Regardless of the operating system).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have I understood you correctly?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, I said privilege.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please explain why that subtle difference would change the outcome.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Scanning an encrypted file won't work, scanning a decrypted file will.
>>>
>>> You appear to have changed your stance. I'm puzzled.
>>>
>>> You said "Yes, things can hide in storage".
>>>
>>> Encryption is irrelevant. Neither Apple nor any Commercial anti-malware
>>> software (as far as I'm aware) can ACCESS one's iCloud Drive to scan it.
>>>
>>> Please comment.
>>
>> It makes little sense to scan encrypted data at rest for signatures or
>> nefarious activity. When you decrypt it, you can then scan it.
>
> What makes you think that malicious software/code hiding in plain sight
> on one's iCloud Drive will be encrypted? Surely, it might NOT be encrypted?

You'll have to trust Apple to do STaaS best practices.

Some light reading:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/cloud-computing/storage-as-a-service.html

Am 14.10.22 um 23:37 schrieb Snit:
> On Oct 14, 2022 at 2:19:14 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
> <mnk2L.1655739$%q2.1524958@fx15.ams1>:
>
>>>> You appear to have changed your stance. I'm puzzled.
>>>>
>>>> You said "Yes, things can hide in storage".
>>>>
>>>> Encryption is irrelevant. Neither Apple nor any Commercial anti-malware
>>>> software (as far as I'm aware) can ACCESS one's iCloud Drive to scan it.
>>>>
>>>> Please comment.
>>>
>>> It makes little sense to scan encrypted data at rest for signatures or
>>> nefarious activity. When you decrypt it, you can then scan it.
>>
>> What makes you think that malicious software/code hiding in plain sight
>> on one's iCloud Drive will be encrypted? Surely, it might NOT be encrypted?
>
> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
> -----
> End-to-end encryption
> -----

*ROTFLSTC*
Apple has no transparent end-to-end encryption for nothing. Never trust
such promises.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

On Oct 14, 2022 at 9:33:29 PM MST, "Joerg Lorenz" wrote
<tidd6q$a6si$1@solani.org>:

> Am 14.10.22 um 23:37 schrieb Snit:
>> On Oct 14, 2022 at 2:19:14 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>> <mnk2L.1655739$%q2.1524958@fx15.ams1>:
>>
>>>>> You appear to have changed your stance. I'm puzzled.
>>>>>
>>>>> You said "Yes, things can hide in storage".
>>>>>
>>>>> Encryption is irrelevant. Neither Apple nor any Commercial anti-malware
>>>>> software (as far as I'm aware) can ACCESS one's iCloud Drive to scan it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please comment.
>>>>
>>>> It makes little sense to scan encrypted data at rest for signatures or
>>>> nefarious activity. When you decrypt it, you can then scan it.
>>>
>>> What makes you think that malicious software/code hiding in plain sight
>>> on one's iCloud Drive will be encrypted? Surely, it might NOT be encrypted?
>>
>> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
>> -----
>> End-to-end encryption
>> -----
>
> *ROTFLSTC*
> Apple has no transparent end-to-end encryption for nothing. Never trust
> such promises.

If you have counter evidence I am open to it.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On 15/10/2022 00:33, FromTheRafters wrote:
> David Brooks wrote :
>> On 14/10/2022 21:52, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>> It happens that David Brooks formulated :
>>>> On 14/10/2022 18:45, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 17:08, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>> David Brooks wrote :
>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 15:15, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 10:12, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks submitted this idea :
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 23:03, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on 10/13/2022, Snit supposed :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 2:42:17 PM MST, "FromTheRafters" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <tia0nv$1si3f$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snit wrote on 10/13/2022 :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 1:40:47 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <jJ_1L.1354594$YC96.1352147@fx12.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 21:25, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <jtX1L.1518135$Eeb3.1264275@fx05.ams1>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <BDB@not.on.your.life> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU explain how the videos of Savageduck found
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their way onto my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you put them there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *HOW* do you think I did that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU put Savageduck's videos onto YOUR iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, please explain how that is achievable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you told macos to automatically sync files to icloud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unlike sentient beings who know better, it does what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you tell it to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. None of my other video links were shown in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and when I play one of Savageduck's links NOW it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't show up in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What link?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You clicked some links, I think, and watched videos.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have files in your iCloud drive. Maybe even the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> videos? But how are these things connected? Clicking a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> link to watch a video does not save files, to your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud dive or elsewhere. Maybe if you have you cache
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> set there... something like that. But then it would be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Normally, downloading and watching a video wouldn't cause
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soundtrack to disappear either. BD's computers are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exceptional.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It you share a file with iCloud it seems Apple does put it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drives of those who view it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So it seems, but where is it stated. I think it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned when I viewed some of the presentations about the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> new OS which came with the laptop. Anyway, it's no big deal
>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, it MIGHT be a big deal!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple doesn't look into, or check, the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Anti-malware companies do not have access to the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a perfect place for something malicious to lurk with
>>>>>>>>>>>> nobody noticing that it is there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, things can hide in storage. They can't execute though.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My question to Apd was/is ........ What can fish them out?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A tool with sufficient privilege could. But then, you would
>>>>>>>>> have to trust the tool, which is a difficult thing for you to do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I hoped that you would agree that a tool with sufficient acumen
>>>>>>>> COULD move malicious software hiding on an iCloud Drive back
>>>>>>>> onto the main hard drive of a computer (Regardless of the
>>>>>>>> operating system).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Have I understood you correctly?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, I said privilege.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please explain why that subtle difference would change the outcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Scanning an encrypted file won't work, scanning a decrypted file will.
>>>>
>>>> You appear to have changed your stance. I'm puzzled.
>>>>
>>>> You said "Yes, things can hide in storage".
>>>>
>>>> Encryption is irrelevant. Neither Apple nor any Commercial anti-malware
>>>> software (as far as I'm aware) can ACCESS one's iCloud Drive to scan
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> Please comment.
>>>
>>> It makes little sense to scan encrypted data at rest for signatures
>>> or nefarious activity. When you decrypt it, you can then scan it.
>>
>> What makes you think that malicious software/code hiding in plain sight
>> on one's iCloud Drive will be encrypted? Surely, it might NOT be
>> encrypted?
>
> You'll have to trust Apple to do STaaS best practices.
>
> Some light reading:
>
> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/cloud-computing/storage-as-a-service.html

David Brooks wrote on 10/15/2022 :
> On 15/10/2022 00:33, FromTheRafters wrote:
>> David Brooks wrote :
>>> On 14/10/2022 21:52, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>> It happens that David Brooks formulated :
>>>>> On 14/10/2022 18:45, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 17:08, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>> David Brooks wrote :
>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 15:15, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 10:12, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks submitted this idea :
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 23:03, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on 10/13/2022, Snit supposed :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 2:42:17 PM MST, "FromTheRafters" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <tia0nv$1si3f$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snit wrote on 10/13/2022 :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 1:40:47 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <jJ_1L.1354594$YC96.1352147@fx12.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 21:25, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <jtX1L.1518135$Eeb3.1264275@fx05.ams1>, David
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brooks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <BDB@not.on.your.life> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU explain how the videos of Savageduck found
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their way onto my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you put them there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *HOW* do you think I did that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU put Savageduck's videos onto YOUR iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, please explain how that is achievable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you told macos to automatically sync files to icloud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unlike sentient beings who know better, it does what you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell it to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. None of my other video links were shown in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and when I play one of Savageduck's links NOW it doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> show up in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What link?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You clicked some links, I think, and watched videos.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have files in your iCloud drive. Maybe even the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> videos? But how are these things connected? Clicking a link
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to watch a video does not save files, to your iCloud dive or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elsewhere. Maybe if you have you cache set there...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something like that. But then it would be other files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Normally, downloading and watching a video wouldn't cause the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soundtrack to disappear either. BD's computers are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exceptional.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It you share a file with iCloud it seems Apple does put it in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drives of those who view it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So it seems, but where is it stated. I think it was mentioned
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when I viewed some of the presentations about the new OS which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> came with the laptop. Anyway, it's no big deal IMO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, it MIGHT be a big deal!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple doesn't look into, or check, the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anti-malware companies do not have access to the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a perfect place for something malicious to lurk with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nobody noticing that it is there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, things can hide in storage. They can't execute though.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My question to Apd was/is ........ What can fish them out?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A tool with sufficient privilege could. But then, you would have to
>>>>>>>>>> trust the tool, which is a difficult thing for you to do.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I hoped that you would agree that a tool with sufficient acumen
>>>>>>>>> COULD move malicious software hiding on an iCloud Drive back onto
>>>>>>>>> the main hard drive of a computer (Regardless of the operating
>>>>>>>>> system).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Have I understood you correctly?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, I said privilege.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please explain why that subtle difference would change the outcome.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Scanning an encrypted file won't work, scanning a decrypted file will.
>>>>>
>>>>> You appear to have changed your stance. I'm puzzled.
>>>>>
>>>>> You said "Yes, things can hide in storage".
>>>>>
>>>>> Encryption is irrelevant. Neither Apple nor any Commercial anti-malware
>>>>> software (as far as I'm aware) can ACCESS one's iCloud Drive to scan it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please comment.
>>>>
>>>> It makes little sense to scan encrypted data at rest for signatures or
>>>> nefarious activity. When you decrypt it, you can then scan it.
>>>
>>> What makes you think that malicious software/code hiding in plain sight
>>> on one's iCloud Drive will be encrypted? Surely, it might NOT be
>>> encrypted?
>>
>> You'll have to trust Apple to do STaaS best practices.
>>
>> Some light reading:
>>
>> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/cloud-computing/storage-as-a-service.html
>
> Thanks, FTR. :-D
>
> I have every confidence in Apple and do subscribe for and use extra storage
> space. I have, though, discovered that I can personally add items to my
> iCloud Drive. If *I* can do so, I have little doubt that 'someone' with
> access to my machine could ALSO put things onto my iCloud Drive. Whilst there
> it remains hidden from my view, hidden from Apple security scans and from
> scans by third-party anti-malware scanners. It also remains there when one
> ERASES all data from one's hardware.
>
> Do you understand what I am saying?
>
> Have I misunderstood something?
>
> Please advise.

On 15/10/2022 11:07, FromTheRafters wrote:
> David Brooks wrote on 10/15/2022 :
>> On 15/10/2022 00:33, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>> David Brooks wrote :
>>>> On 14/10/2022 21:52, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>> It happens that David Brooks formulated :
>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 18:45, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 17:08, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>> David Brooks wrote :
>>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 15:15, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 10:12, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks submitted this idea :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 23:03, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on 10/13/2022, Snit supposed :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 2:42:17 PM MST, "FromTheRafters" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <tia0nv$1si3f$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snit wrote on 10/13/2022 :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 1:40:47 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <jJ_1L.1354594$YC96.1352147@fx12.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 21:25, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <jtX1L.1518135$Eeb3.1264275@fx05.ams1>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <BDB@not.on.your.life> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU explain how the videos of Savageduck
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found their way onto my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you put them there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *HOW* do you think I did that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU put Savageduck's videos onto YOUR iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, please explain how that is achievable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you told macos to automatically sync files to icloud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unlike sentient beings who know better, it does what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you tell it to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. None of my other video links were shown in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and when I play one of Savageduck's links NOW it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't show up in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What link?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You clicked some links, I think, and watched videos.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have files in your iCloud drive. Maybe even the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same videos? But how are these things connected?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clicking a link to watch a video does not save files,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to your iCloud dive or elsewhere. Maybe if you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you cache set there... something like that. But then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it would be other files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Normally, downloading and watching a video wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cause the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soundtrack to disappear either. BD's computers are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exceptional.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It you share a file with iCloud it seems Apple does put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it in the iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drives of those who view it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So it seems, but where is it stated. I think it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned when I viewed some of the presentations about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the new OS which came with the laptop. Anyway, it's no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> big deal IMO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, it MIGHT be a big deal!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple doesn't look into, or check, the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anti-malware companies do not have access to the iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a perfect place for something malicious to lurk with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nobody noticing that it is there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, things can hide in storage. They can't execute though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My question to Apd was/is ........ What can fish them out?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A tool with sufficient privilege could. But then, you would
>>>>>>>>>>> have to trust the tool, which is a difficult thing for you to
>>>>>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I hoped that you would agree that a tool with sufficient
>>>>>>>>>> acumen COULD move malicious software hiding on an iCloud Drive
>>>>>>>>>> back onto the main hard drive of a computer (Regardless of the
>>>>>>>>>> operating system).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Have I understood you correctly?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, I said privilege.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please explain why that subtle difference would change the outcome.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Scanning an encrypted file won't work, scanning a decrypted file
>>>>>>> will.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You appear to have changed your stance. I'm puzzled.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You said "Yes, things can hide in storage".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Encryption is irrelevant. Neither Apple nor any Commercial
>>>>>> anti-malware
>>>>>> software (as far as I'm aware) can ACCESS one's iCloud Drive to
>>>>>> scan it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please comment.
>>>>>
>>>>> It makes little sense to scan encrypted data at rest for signatures
>>>>> or nefarious activity. When you decrypt it, you can then scan it.
>>>>
>>>> What makes you think that malicious software/code hiding in plain sight
>>>> on one's iCloud Drive will be encrypted? Surely, it might NOT be
>>>> encrypted?
>>>
>>> You'll have to trust Apple to do STaaS best practices.
>>>
>>> Some light reading:
>>>
>>> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/cloud-computing/storage-as-a-service.html
>>
>> Thanks, FTR. :-D
>>
>> I have every confidence in Apple and do subscribe for and use extra
>> storage space. I have, though, discovered that I can personally add
>> items to my iCloud Drive. If *I* can do so, I have little doubt that
>> 'someone' with access to my machine could ALSO put things onto my
>> iCloud Drive. Whilst there it remains hidden from my view, hidden from
>> Apple security scans and from scans by third-party anti-malware
>> scanners. It also remains there when one ERASES all data from one's
>> hardware.
>>
>> Do you understand what I am saying?
>>
>> Have I misunderstood something?
>>
>> Please advise.
>
> Physical access to the machine often trumps all other attempts at security.
>
> https://cloud.google.com/architecture/automating-malware-scanning-for-documents-uploaded-to-cloud-storage

On Oct 15, 2022 at 1:53:42 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
<qyu2L.1443677$pI23.523383@fx07.ams1>:

>>> What makes you think that malicious software/code hiding in plain sight
>>> on one's iCloud Drive will be encrypted? Surely, it might NOT be
>>> encrypted?
>>
>> You'll have to trust Apple to do STaaS best practices.
>>
>> Some light reading:
>>
>> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/cloud-computing/storage-as-a-service.html
>
> Thanks, FTR. :-D
>
> I have every confidence in Apple and do subscribe for and use extra
> storage space. I have, though, discovered that I can personally add
> items to my iCloud Drive. If *I* can do so, I have little doubt that
> 'someone' with access to my machine could ALSO put things onto my iCloud
> Drive.

If they are at your machine and it is unlocked, absolutely. Same if with you
phone. And, remember, if you or someone else adds it to one device it will be
there for another. That is the nature of online storage.

> Whilst there it remains hidden from my view, hidden from Apple
> security scans and from scans by third-party anti-malware scanners. It
> also remains there when one ERASES all data from one's hardware.

Of course. One has to delete things from the online storage to have it be
removed from online storage.

> Do you understand what I am saying?
>
> Have I misunderstood something?
>
> Please advise.

You seem to think malware sitting on a drive would be a risk to you, even
without you opening it.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Oct 15, 2022 at 8:11:34 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
<G4A2L.659025$MEGf.18408@fx03.ams1>:

> On 15/10/2022 11:07, FromTheRafters wrote:
>> David Brooks wrote on 10/15/2022 :
>>> On 15/10/2022 00:33, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>> David Brooks wrote :
>>>>> On 14/10/2022 21:52, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>> It happens that David Brooks formulated :
>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 18:45, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 17:08, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks wrote :
>>>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 15:15, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 10:12, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks submitted this idea :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 23:03, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on 10/13/2022, Snit supposed :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 2:42:17 PM MST, "FromTheRafters" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <tia0nv$1si3f$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snit wrote on 10/13/2022 :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 1:40:47 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <jJ_1L.1354594$YC96.1352147@fx12.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 21:25, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <jtX1L.1518135$Eeb3.1264275@fx05.ams1>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <BDB@not.on.your.life> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU explain how the videos of Savageduck
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found their way onto my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you put them there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *HOW* do you think I did that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU put Savageduck's videos onto YOUR iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, please explain how that is achievable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you told macos to automatically sync files to icloud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unlike sentient beings who know better, it does what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you tell it to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. None of my other video links were shown in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and when I play one of Savageduck's links NOW it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't show up in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What link?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You clicked some links, I think, and watched videos.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have files in your iCloud drive. Maybe even the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same videos? But how are these things connected?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clicking a link to watch a video does not save files,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to your iCloud dive or elsewhere. Maybe if you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you cache set there... something like that. But then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it would be other files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Normally, downloading and watching a video wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cause the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soundtrack to disappear either. BD's computers are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exceptional.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It you share a file with iCloud it seems Apple does put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it in the iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drives of those who view it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So it seems, but where is it stated. I think it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned when I viewed some of the presentations about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the new OS which came with the laptop. Anyway, it's no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> big deal IMO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, it MIGHT be a big deal!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple doesn't look into, or check, the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anti-malware companies do not have access to the iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a perfect place for something malicious to lurk with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nobody noticing that it is there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, things can hide in storage. They can't execute though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My question to Apd was/is ........ What can fish them out?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> A tool with sufficient privilege could. But then, you would
>>>>>>>>>>>> have to trust the tool, which is a difficult thing for you to
>>>>>>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I hoped that you would agree that a tool with sufficient
>>>>>>>>>>> acumen COULD move malicious software hiding on an iCloud Drive
>>>>>>>>>>> back onto the main hard drive of a computer (Regardless of the
>>>>>>>>>>> operating system).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Have I understood you correctly?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No, I said privilege.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please explain why that subtle difference would change the outcome.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Scanning an encrypted file won't work, scanning a decrypted file
>>>>>>>> will.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You appear to have changed your stance. I'm puzzled.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You said "Yes, things can hide in storage".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Encryption is irrelevant. Neither Apple nor any Commercial
>>>>>>> anti-malware
>>>>>>> software (as far as I'm aware) can ACCESS one's iCloud Drive to
>>>>>>> scan it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please comment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It makes little sense to scan encrypted data at rest for signatures
>>>>>> or nefarious activity. When you decrypt it, you can then scan it.
>>>>>
>>>>> What makes you think that malicious software/code hiding in plain sight
>>>>> on one's iCloud Drive will be encrypted? Surely, it might NOT be
>>>>> encrypted?
>>>>
>>>> You'll have to trust Apple to do STaaS best practices.
>>>>
>>>> Some light reading:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/cloud-computing/storage-as-a-service.html
>>>
>>> Thanks, FTR. :-D
>>>
>>> I have every confidence in Apple and do subscribe for and use extra
>>> storage space. I have, though, discovered that I can personally add
>>> items to my iCloud Drive. If *I* can do so, I have little doubt that
>>> 'someone' with access to my machine could ALSO put things onto my
>>> iCloud Drive. Whilst there it remains hidden from my view, hidden from
>>> Apple security scans and from scans by third-party anti-malware
>>> scanners. It also remains there when one ERASES all data from one's
>>> hardware.
>>>
>>> Do you understand what I am saying?
>>>
>>> Have I misunderstood something?
>>>
>>> Please advise.
>>
>> Physical access to the machine often trumps all other attempts at security.
>>
>> https://cloud.google.com/architecture/automating-malware-scanning-for-documents-uploaded-to-cloud-storage
>
> I've heard that said before!
>
>>
> https://cloud.google.com/architecture/automating-malware-scanning-for-documents-uploaded-to-cloud-storage
>
> I've skimmed over that. It's above my pay-grade!
>
> *DID* you understand what I said above? *DO you* think that MALWARE
> and/or malicious software 'tools' /could/ move data onto one's Apple
> iCloud Drive?

On 15/10/2022 16:40, Snit wrote:
> On Oct 15, 2022 at 8:11:34 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
> <G4A2L.659025$MEGf.18408@fx03.ams1>:
>
>> On 15/10/2022 11:07, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>> David Brooks wrote on 10/15/2022 :
>>>> On 15/10/2022 00:33, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>> David Brooks wrote :
>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 21:52, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>> It happens that David Brooks formulated :
>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 18:45, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 17:08, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks wrote :
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 15:15, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 10:12, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks submitted this idea :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 23:03, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on 10/13/2022, Snit supposed :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 2:42:17 PM MST, "FromTheRafters" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <tia0nv$1si3f$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snit wrote on 10/13/2022 :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 1:40:47 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <jJ_1L.1354594$YC96.1352147@fx12.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 21:25, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <jtX1L.1518135$Eeb3.1264275@fx05.ams1>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <BDB@not.on.your.life> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU explain how the videos of Savageduck
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found their way onto my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you put them there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *HOW* do you think I did that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU put Savageduck's videos onto YOUR iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, please explain how that is achievable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you told macos to automatically sync files to icloud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unlike sentient beings who know better, it does what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you tell it to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. None of my other video links were shown in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and when I play one of Savageduck's links NOW it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't show up in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What link?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You clicked some links, I think, and watched videos.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have files in your iCloud drive. Maybe even the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same videos? But how are these things connected?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clicking a link to watch a video does not save files,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to your iCloud dive or elsewhere. Maybe if you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you cache set there... something like that. But then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it would be other files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Normally, downloading and watching a video wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cause the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soundtrack to disappear either. BD's computers are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exceptional.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It you share a file with iCloud it seems Apple does put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it in the iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drives of those who view it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So it seems, but where is it stated. I think it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned when I viewed some of the presentations about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the new OS which came with the laptop. Anyway, it's no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> big deal IMO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, it MIGHT be a big deal!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple doesn't look into, or check, the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anti-malware companies do not have access to the iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a perfect place for something malicious to lurk with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nobody noticing that it is there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, things can hide in storage. They can't execute though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My question to Apd was/is ........ What can fish them out?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> A tool with sufficient privilege could. But then, you would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to trust the tool, which is a difficult thing for you to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I hoped that you would agree that a tool with sufficient
>>>>>>>>>>>> acumen COULD move malicious software hiding on an iCloud Drive
>>>>>>>>>>>> back onto the main hard drive of a computer (Regardless of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> operating system).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Have I understood you correctly?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No, I said privilege.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Please explain why that subtle difference would change the outcome.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Scanning an encrypted file won't work, scanning a decrypted file
>>>>>>>>> will.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You appear to have changed your stance. I'm puzzled.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You said "Yes, things can hide in storage".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Encryption is irrelevant. Neither Apple nor any Commercial
>>>>>>>> anti-malware
>>>>>>>> software (as far as I'm aware) can ACCESS one's iCloud Drive to
>>>>>>>> scan it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please comment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It makes little sense to scan encrypted data at rest for signatures
>>>>>>> or nefarious activity. When you decrypt it, you can then scan it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What makes you think that malicious software/code hiding in plain sight
>>>>>> on one's iCloud Drive will be encrypted? Surely, it might NOT be
>>>>>> encrypted?
>>>>>
>>>>> You'll have to trust Apple to do STaaS best practices.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some light reading:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/cloud-computing/storage-as-a-service.html
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, FTR. :-D
>>>>
>>>> I have every confidence in Apple and do subscribe for and use extra
>>>> storage space. I have, though, discovered that I can personally add
>>>> items to my iCloud Drive. If *I* can do so, I have little doubt that
>>>> 'someone' with access to my machine could ALSO put things onto my
>>>> iCloud Drive. Whilst there it remains hidden from my view, hidden from
>>>> Apple security scans and from scans by third-party anti-malware
>>>> scanners. It also remains there when one ERASES all data from one's
>>>> hardware.
>>>>
>>>> Do you understand what I am saying?
>>>>
>>>> Have I misunderstood something?
>>>>
>>>> Please advise.
>>>
>>> Physical access to the machine often trumps all other attempts at security.
>>>
>>> https://cloud.google.com/architecture/automating-malware-scanning-for-documents-uploaded-to-cloud-storage
>>
>> I've heard that said before!
>>
>>>
>> https://cloud.google.com/architecture/automating-malware-scanning-for-documents-uploaded-to-cloud-storage
>>
>> I've skimmed over that. It's above my pay-grade!
>>
>> *DID* you understand what I said above? *DO you* think that MALWARE
>> and/or malicious software 'tools' /could/ move data onto one's Apple
>> iCloud Drive?
>
> I can write a simple AppleScript that moves things to your iCloud drive
> (though it would ask for your permission). What would the value be of malware
> doing this?

On 15/10/2022 16:39, Snit wrote:
> On Oct 15, 2022 at 1:53:42 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
> <qyu2L.1443677$pI23.523383@fx07.ams1>:
>
>>>> What makes you think that malicious software/code hiding in plain sight
>>>> on one's iCloud Drive will be encrypted? Surely, it might NOT be
>>>> encrypted?
>>>
>>> You'll have to trust Apple to do STaaS best practices.
>>>
>>> Some light reading:
>>>
>>> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/cloud-computing/storage-as-a-service.html
>>
>> Thanks, FTR. :-D
>>
>> I have every confidence in Apple and do subscribe for and use extra
>> storage space. I have, though, discovered that I can personally add
>> items to my iCloud Drive. If *I* can do so, I have little doubt that
>> 'someone' with access to my machine could ALSO put things onto my iCloud
>> Drive.
>
> If they are at your machine and it is unlocked, absolutely. Same if with you
> phone. And, remember, if you or someone else adds it to one device it will be
> there for another. That is the nature of online storage.

Yes, of course.

>> Whilst there it remains hidden from my view, hidden from Apple
>> security scans and from scans by third-party anti-malware scanners. It
>> also remains there when one ERASES all data from one's hardware.
>
> Of course. One has to delete things from the online storage to have it be
> removed from online storage.

Oh my!

>> Do you understand what I am saying?
>>
>> Have I misunderstood something?
>>
>> Please advise.
>
> You seem to think malware sitting on a drive would be a risk to you, even
> without you opening it.

Again, you are misunderstanding. :-(

David Brooks explained on 10/15/2022 :
> On 15/10/2022 11:07, FromTheRafters wrote:
>> David Brooks wrote on 10/15/2022 :
>>> On 15/10/2022 00:33, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>> David Brooks wrote :
>>>>> On 14/10/2022 21:52, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>> It happens that David Brooks formulated :
>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 18:45, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 17:08, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks wrote :
>>>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 15:15, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 10:12, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks submitted this idea :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 23:03, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on 10/13/2022, Snit supposed :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 2:42:17 PM MST, "FromTheRafters" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <tia0nv$1si3f$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snit wrote on 10/13/2022 :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 1:40:47 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <jJ_1L.1354594$YC96.1352147@fx12.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 21:25, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <jtX1L.1518135$Eeb3.1264275@fx05.ams1>, David
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brooks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <BDB@not.on.your.life> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU explain how the videos of Savageduck found
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their way onto my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you put them there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *HOW* do you think I did that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU put Savageduck's videos onto YOUR iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, please explain how that is achievable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you told macos to automatically sync files to icloud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unlike sentient beings who know better, it does what you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell it to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. None of my other video links were shown in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and when I play one of Savageduck's links NOW it doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> show up in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What link?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You clicked some links, I think, and watched videos.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have files in your iCloud drive. Maybe even the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> videos? But how are these things connected? Clicking a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> link to watch a video does not save files, to your iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dive or elsewhere. Maybe if you have you cache set
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there... something like that. But then it would be other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Normally, downloading and watching a video wouldn't cause
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soundtrack to disappear either. BD's computers are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exceptional.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It you share a file with iCloud it seems Apple does put it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drives of those who view it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So it seems, but where is it stated. I think it was mentioned
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when I viewed some of the presentations about the new OS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which came with the laptop. Anyway, it's no big deal IMO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, it MIGHT be a big deal!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple doesn't look into, or check, the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anti-malware companies do not have access to the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a perfect place for something malicious to lurk with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nobody noticing that it is there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, things can hide in storage. They can't execute though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My question to Apd was/is ........ What can fish them out?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> A tool with sufficient privilege could. But then, you would have
>>>>>>>>>>>> to trust the tool, which is a difficult thing for you to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I hoped that you would agree that a tool with sufficient acumen
>>>>>>>>>>> COULD move malicious software hiding on an iCloud Drive back onto
>>>>>>>>>>> the main hard drive of a computer (Regardless of the operating
>>>>>>>>>>> system).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Have I understood you correctly?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No, I said privilege.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please explain why that subtle difference would change the outcome.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Scanning an encrypted file won't work, scanning a decrypted file
>>>>>>>> will.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You appear to have changed your stance. I'm puzzled.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You said "Yes, things can hide in storage".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Encryption is irrelevant. Neither Apple nor any Commercial
>>>>>>> anti-malware
>>>>>>> software (as far as I'm aware) can ACCESS one's iCloud Drive to scan
>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please comment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It makes little sense to scan encrypted data at rest for signatures or
>>>>>> nefarious activity. When you decrypt it, you can then scan it.
>>>>>
>>>>> What makes you think that malicious software/code hiding in plain sight
>>>>> on one's iCloud Drive will be encrypted? Surely, it might NOT be
>>>>> encrypted?
>>>>
>>>> You'll have to trust Apple to do STaaS best practices.
>>>>
>>>> Some light reading:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/cloud-computing/storage-as-a-service.html
>>>
>>> Thanks, FTR. :-D
>>>
>>> I have every confidence in Apple and do subscribe for and use extra
>>> storage space. I have, though, discovered that I can personally add items
>>> to my iCloud Drive. If *I* can do so, I have little doubt that 'someone'
>>> with access to my machine could ALSO put things onto my iCloud Drive.
>>> Whilst there it remains hidden from my view, hidden from Apple security
>>> scans and from scans by third-party anti-malware scanners. It also remains
>>> there when one ERASES all data from one's hardware.
>>>
>>> Do you understand what I am saying?
>>>
>>> Have I misunderstood something?
>>>
>>> Please advise.
>>
>> Physical access to the machine often trumps all other attempts at security.
>>
>> https://cloud.google.com/architecture/automating-malware-scanning-for-documents-uploaded-to-cloud-storage
>
> I've heard that said before!
>
> >
> https://cloud.google.com/architecture/automating-malware-scanning-for-documents-uploaded-to-cloud-storage
>
> I've skimmed over that. It's above my pay-grade!
>
> *DID* you understand what I said above? *DO you* think that MALWARE
> and/or malicious software 'tools' /could/ move data onto one's Apple iCloud
> Drive?

On Oct 15, 2022 at 10:00:19 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
<DGB2L.890203$9f26.699295@fx09.ams1>:

> On 15/10/2022 16:39, Snit wrote:
>> On Oct 15, 2022 at 1:53:42 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>> <qyu2L.1443677$pI23.523383@fx07.ams1>:
>>
>>>>> What makes you think that malicious software/code hiding in plain sight
>>>>> on one's iCloud Drive will be encrypted? Surely, it might NOT be
>>>>> encrypted?
>>>>
>>>> You'll have to trust Apple to do STaaS best practices.
>>>>
>>>> Some light reading:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/cloud-computing/storage-as-a-service.html
>>>
>>> Thanks, FTR. :-D
>>>
>>> I have every confidence in Apple and do subscribe for and use extra
>>> storage space. I have, though, discovered that I can personally add
>>> items to my iCloud Drive. If *I* can do so, I have little doubt that
>>> 'someone' with access to my machine could ALSO put things onto my iCloud
>>> Drive.
>>
>> If they are at your machine and it is unlocked, absolutely. Same if with you
>> phone. And, remember, if you or someone else adds it to one device it will be
>> there for another. That is the nature of online storage.
>
> Yes, of course.
>
>>> Whilst there it remains hidden from my view, hidden from Apple
>>> security scans and from scans by third-party anti-malware scanners. It
>>> also remains there when one ERASES all data from one's hardware.
>>
>> Of course. One has to delete things from the online storage to have it be
>> removed from online storage.
>
> Oh my!
>
>>> Do you understand what I am saying?
>>>
>>> Have I misunderstood something?
>>>
>>> Please advise.
>>
>> You seem to think malware sitting on a drive would be a risk to you, even
>> without you opening it.
>
> Again, you are misunderstanding. :-(

So what is the issue? You had files on your drive years ago which you do not
recall putting there, but the only explanation is you or someone with access
to your devices did. You are somehow tying this to another service and another
Usenet group. I did not understand that connection. Seems you or maybe, if she
has access, your wife put some files on your iCloud drive.

Can you explain what I am missing?

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Oct 15, 2022 at 9:55:50 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
<qCB2L.890202$9f26.745824@fx09.ams1>:

> On 15/10/2022 16:40, Snit wrote:
>> On Oct 15, 2022 at 8:11:34 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>> <G4A2L.659025$MEGf.18408@fx03.ams1>:
>>
>>> On 15/10/2022 11:07, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>> David Brooks wrote on 10/15/2022 :
>>>>> On 15/10/2022 00:33, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>> David Brooks wrote :
>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 21:52, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>> It happens that David Brooks formulated :
>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 18:45, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 17:08, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks wrote :
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 15:15, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 10:12, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks submitted this idea :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 23:03, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on 10/13/2022, Snit supposed :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 2:42:17 PM MST, "FromTheRafters" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <tia0nv$1si3f$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snit wrote on 10/13/2022 :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 1:40:47 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <jJ_1L.1354594$YC96.1352147@fx12.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 21:25, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <jtX1L.1518135$Eeb3.1264275@fx05.ams1>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <BDB@not.on.your.life> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU explain how the videos of Savageduck
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found their way onto my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you put them there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *HOW* do you think I did that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU put Savageduck's videos onto YOUR iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, please explain how that is achievable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you told macos to automatically sync files to icloud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unlike sentient beings who know better, it does what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you tell it to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. None of my other video links were shown in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and when I play one of Savageduck's links NOW it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't show up in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What link?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You clicked some links, I think, and watched videos.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have files in your iCloud drive. Maybe even the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same videos? But how are these things connected?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clicking a link to watch a video does not save files,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to your iCloud dive or elsewhere. Maybe if you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you cache set there... something like that. But then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it would be other files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Normally, downloading and watching a video wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cause the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soundtrack to disappear either. BD's computers are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exceptional.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It you share a file with iCloud it seems Apple does put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it in the iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drives of those who view it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So it seems, but where is it stated. I think it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned when I viewed some of the presentations about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the new OS which came with the laptop. Anyway, it's no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> big deal IMO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, it MIGHT be a big deal!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple doesn't look into, or check, the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anti-malware companies do not have access to the iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a perfect place for something malicious to lurk with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nobody noticing that it is there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, things can hide in storage. They can't execute though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My question to Apd was/is ........ What can fish them out?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A tool with sufficient privilege could. But then, you would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to trust the tool, which is a difficult thing for you to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hoped that you would agree that a tool with sufficient
>>>>>>>>>>>>> acumen COULD move malicious software hiding on an iCloud Drive
>>>>>>>>>>>>> back onto the main hard drive of a computer (Regardless of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> operating system).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have I understood you correctly?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> No, I said privilege.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Please explain why that subtle difference would change the outcome.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Scanning an encrypted file won't work, scanning a decrypted file
>>>>>>>>>> will.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You appear to have changed your stance. I'm puzzled.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You said "Yes, things can hide in storage".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Encryption is irrelevant. Neither Apple nor any Commercial
>>>>>>>>> anti-malware
>>>>>>>>> software (as far as I'm aware) can ACCESS one's iCloud Drive to
>>>>>>>>> scan it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please comment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It makes little sense to scan encrypted data at rest for signatures
>>>>>>>> or nefarious activity. When you decrypt it, you can then scan it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What makes you think that malicious software/code hiding in plain sight
>>>>>>> on one's iCloud Drive will be encrypted? Surely, it might NOT be
>>>>>>> encrypted?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You'll have to trust Apple to do STaaS best practices.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some light reading:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/cloud-computing/storage-as-a-service.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, FTR. :-D
>>>>>
>>>>> I have every confidence in Apple and do subscribe for and use extra
>>>>> storage space. I have, though, discovered that I can personally add
>>>>> items to my iCloud Drive. If *I* can do so, I have little doubt that
>>>>> 'someone' with access to my machine could ALSO put things onto my
>>>>> iCloud Drive. Whilst there it remains hidden from my view, hidden from
>>>>> Apple security scans and from scans by third-party anti-malware
>>>>> scanners. It also remains there when one ERASES all data from one's
>>>>> hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you understand what I am saying?
>>>>>
>>>>> Have I misunderstood something?
>>>>>
>>>>> Please advise.
>>>>
>>>> Physical access to the machine often trumps all other attempts at security.
>>>>
>>>> https://cloud.google.com/architecture/automating-malware-scanning-for-documents-uploaded-to-cloud-storage
>>>
>>> I've heard that said before!
>>>
>>>>
>>> https://cloud.google.com/architecture/automating-malware-scanning-for-documents-uploaded-to-cloud-storage
>>>
>>> I've skimmed over that. It's above my pay-grade!
>>>
>>> *DID* you understand what I said above? *DO you* think that MALWARE
>>> and/or malicious software 'tools' /could/ move data onto one's Apple
>>> iCloud Drive?
>>
>> I can write a simple AppleScript that moves things to your iCloud drive
>> (though it would ask for your permission). What would the value be of malware
>> doing this?
>
>
> I'm not doing well getting my point across!!! :-(
>
> If malware is able to hide on one's iCloud Drive it can survive the
> complete erasure
> of a computer's hard drive(s) or even the replacement of the complete
> computer.

On 15/10/2022 19:39, Snit wrote:
> On Oct 15, 2022 at 9:55:50 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
> <qCB2L.890202$9f26.745824@fx09.ams1>:
>
>> On 15/10/2022 16:40, Snit wrote:
>>> On Oct 15, 2022 at 8:11:34 AM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>> <G4A2L.659025$MEGf.18408@fx03.ams1>:
>>>
>>>> On 15/10/2022 11:07, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>> David Brooks wrote on 10/15/2022 :
>>>>>> On 15/10/2022 00:33, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>> David Brooks wrote :
>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 21:52, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>> It happens that David Brooks formulated :
>>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 18:45, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 17:08, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks wrote :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 15:15, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 10:12, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks submitted this idea :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 23:03, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on 10/13/2022, Snit supposed :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 2:42:17 PM MST, "FromTheRafters" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <tia0nv$1si3f$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snit wrote on 10/13/2022 :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 1:40:47 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <jJ_1L.1354594$YC96.1352147@fx12.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 21:25, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <jtX1L.1518135$Eeb3.1264275@fx05.ams1>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <BDB@not.on.your.life> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU explain how the videos of Savageduck
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found their way onto my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you put them there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *HOW* do you think I did that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU put Savageduck's videos onto YOUR iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, please explain how that is achievable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you told macos to automatically sync files to icloud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unlike sentient beings who know better, it does what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you tell it to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. None of my other video links were shown in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and when I play one of Savageduck's links NOW it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't show up in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What link?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You clicked some links, I think, and watched videos.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have files in your iCloud drive. Maybe even the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same videos? But how are these things connected?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clicking a link to watch a video does not save files,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to your iCloud dive or elsewhere. Maybe if you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you cache set there... something like that. But then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it would be other files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Normally, downloading and watching a video wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cause the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soundtrack to disappear either. BD's computers are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exceptional.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It you share a file with iCloud it seems Apple does put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it in the iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drives of those who view it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So it seems, but where is it stated. I think it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned when I viewed some of the presentations about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the new OS which came with the laptop. Anyway, it's no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> big deal IMO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, it MIGHT be a big deal!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple doesn't look into, or check, the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anti-malware companies do not have access to the iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a perfect place for something malicious to lurk with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nobody noticing that it is there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, things can hide in storage. They can't execute though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My question to Apd was/is ........ What can fish them out?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A tool with sufficient privilege could. But then, you would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to trust the tool, which is a difficult thing for you to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hoped that you would agree that a tool with sufficient
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acumen COULD move malicious software hiding on an iCloud Drive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back onto the main hard drive of a computer (Regardless of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> operating system).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have I understood you correctly?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, I said privilege.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Please explain why that subtle difference would change the outcome.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Scanning an encrypted file won't work, scanning a decrypted file
>>>>>>>>>>> will.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You appear to have changed your stance. I'm puzzled.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You said "Yes, things can hide in storage".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Encryption is irrelevant. Neither Apple nor any Commercial
>>>>>>>>>> anti-malware
>>>>>>>>>> software (as far as I'm aware) can ACCESS one's iCloud Drive to
>>>>>>>>>> scan it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Please comment.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It makes little sense to scan encrypted data at rest for signatures
>>>>>>>>> or nefarious activity. When you decrypt it, you can then scan it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What makes you think that malicious software/code hiding in plain sight
>>>>>>>> on one's iCloud Drive will be encrypted? Surely, it might NOT be
>>>>>>>> encrypted?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You'll have to trust Apple to do STaaS best practices.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some light reading:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/cloud-computing/storage-as-a-service.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks, FTR. :-D
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have every confidence in Apple and do subscribe for and use extra
>>>>>> storage space. I have, though, discovered that I can personally add
>>>>>> items to my iCloud Drive. If *I* can do so, I have little doubt that
>>>>>> 'someone' with access to my machine could ALSO put things onto my
>>>>>> iCloud Drive. Whilst there it remains hidden from my view, hidden from
>>>>>> Apple security scans and from scans by third-party anti-malware
>>>>>> scanners. It also remains there when one ERASES all data from one's
>>>>>> hardware.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you understand what I am saying?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have I misunderstood something?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please advise.
>>>>>
>>>>> Physical access to the machine often trumps all other attempts at security.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://cloud.google.com/architecture/automating-malware-scanning-for-documents-uploaded-to-cloud-storage
>>>>
>>>> I've heard that said before!
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> https://cloud.google.com/architecture/automating-malware-scanning-for-documents-uploaded-to-cloud-storage
>>>>
>>>> I've skimmed over that. It's above my pay-grade!
>>>>
>>>> *DID* you understand what I said above? *DO you* think that MALWARE
>>>> and/or malicious software 'tools' /could/ move data onto one's Apple
>>>> iCloud Drive?
>>>
>>> I can write a simple AppleScript that moves things to your iCloud drive
>>> (though it would ask for your permission). What would the value be of malware
>>> doing this?
>>
>>
>> I'm not doing well getting my point across!!! :-(
>>
>> If malware is able to hide on one's iCloud Drive it can survive the
>> complete erasure
>> of a computer's hard drive(s) or even the replacement of the complete
>> computer.
>
> Right. Just like if you had it on an external drive not connected to your
> machine.

On 15/10/2022 19:18, FromTheRafters wrote:
> David Brooks explained on 10/15/2022 :
>> On 15/10/2022 11:07, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>> David Brooks wrote on 10/15/2022 :
>>>> On 15/10/2022 00:33, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>> David Brooks wrote :
>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 21:52, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>> It happens that David Brooks formulated :
>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 18:45, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 17:08, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks wrote :
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 15:15, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks brought next idea :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2022 10:12, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks submitted this idea :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 23:03, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on 10/13/2022, Snit supposed :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 2:42:17 PM MST, "FromTheRafters" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <tia0nv$1si3f$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snit wrote on 10/13/2022 :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 2022 at 1:40:47 PM MST, "David Brooks" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <jJ_1L.1354594$YC96.1352147@fx12.ams1>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2022 21:25, nospam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <jtX1L.1518135$Eeb3.1264275@fx05.ams1>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Brooks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <BDB@not.on.your.life> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU explain how the videos of Savageduck
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found their way onto my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you put them there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *HOW* do you think I did that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can YOU put Savageduck's videos onto YOUR iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Drive?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, please explain how that is achievable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you told macos to automatically sync files to icloud.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unlike sentient beings who know better, it does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what you tell it to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. None of my other video links were shown in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my iCloud Drive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and when I play one of Savageduck's links NOW it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't show up in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What link?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You clicked some links, I think, and watched videos.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have files in your iCloud drive. Maybe even the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same videos? But how are these things connected?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clicking a link to watch a video does not save
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> files, to your iCloud dive or elsewhere. Maybe if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have you cache set there... something like that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But then it would be other files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am missing something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Normally, downloading and watching a video wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cause the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soundtrack to disappear either. BD's computers are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exceptional.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It you share a file with iCloud it seems Apple does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> put it in the iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drives of those who view it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So it seems, but where is it stated. I think it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned when I viewed some of the presentations about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the new OS which came with the laptop. Anyway, it's no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> big deal IMO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, it MIGHT be a big deal!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple doesn't look into, or check, the iCloud Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anti-malware companies do not have access to the iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Drive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a perfect place for something malicious to lurk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with nobody noticing that it is there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just a thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, things can hide in storage. They can't execute though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My question to Apd was/is ........ What can fish them out?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> A tool with sufficient privilege could. But then, you would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to trust the tool, which is a difficult thing for you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I hoped that you would agree that a tool with sufficient
>>>>>>>>>>>> acumen COULD move malicious software hiding on an iCloud
>>>>>>>>>>>> Drive back onto the main hard drive of a computer
>>>>>>>>>>>> (Regardless of the operating system).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Have I understood you correctly?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No, I said privilege.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Please explain why that subtle difference would change the
>>>>>>>>>> outcome.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Scanning an encrypted file won't work, scanning a decrypted
>>>>>>>>> file will.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You appear to have changed your stance. I'm puzzled.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You said "Yes, things can hide in storage".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Encryption is irrelevant. Neither Apple nor any Commercial
>>>>>>>> anti-malware
>>>>>>>> software (as far as I'm aware) can ACCESS one's iCloud Drive to
>>>>>>>> scan it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please comment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It makes little sense to scan encrypted data at rest for
>>>>>>> signatures or nefarious activity. When you decrypt it, you can
>>>>>>> then scan it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What makes you think that malicious software/code hiding in plain
>>>>>> sight
>>>>>> on one's iCloud Drive will be encrypted? Surely, it might NOT be
>>>>>> encrypted?
>>>>>
>>>>> You'll have to trust Apple to do STaaS best practices.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some light reading:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/cloud-computing/storage-as-a-service.html
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, FTR. :-D
>>>>
>>>> I have every confidence in Apple and do subscribe for and use extra
>>>> storage space. I have, though, discovered that I can personally add
>>>> items to my iCloud Drive. If *I* can do so, I have little doubt that
>>>> 'someone' with access to my machine could ALSO put things onto my
>>>> iCloud Drive. Whilst there it remains hidden from my view, hidden
>>>> from Apple security scans and from scans by third-party anti-malware
>>>> scanners. It also remains there when one ERASES all data from one's
>>>> hardware.
>>>>
>>>> Do you understand what I am saying?
>>>>
>>>> Have I misunderstood something?
>>>>
>>>> Please advise.
>>>
>>> Physical access to the machine often trumps all other attempts at
>>> security.
>>>
>>> https://cloud.google.com/architecture/automating-malware-scanning-for-documents-uploaded-to-cloud-storage
>>
>> I've heard that said before!
>>
>>  >
>> https://cloud.google.com/architecture/automating-malware-scanning-for-documents-uploaded-to-cloud-storage
>>
>> I've skimmed over that. It's above my pay-grade!
>>
>> *DID* you understand what I said above? *DO you* think that MALWARE
>> and/or malicious software 'tools' /could/ move data onto one's Apple
>> iCloud Drive?
>
> Yes, but you would have to have malicious activity on the computer you
> use to access that storage in order for there to be that activity. The
> scanners should not change or add data to the drive.
>
> It's like an external harddrive with everything on it encrypted. For
> something to move malicious material onto it would need the right
> (write) local privilege level. For the other direction it would need the
> right privilege level to 'read' the data so as to decrypt the data and
> scan the data for malware locally.
>
> You seem to 'want' to have a plausible scenario (rationalization) for
> distrusting those AM tools that you mistrust. Suffice it to say that
> malware or tools with adequate privilege can do anything the user can
> do. If you can put something somewhere, it can put something somewhere;
> if you can take something from somewhere, it can take something from
> somewhere.