https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam
"His opinions have been crushed into insignificant dust by
the enormous weight of his lies"- Alvey on the Fraudster
"His self serving ego pumping comments just
read like witless wankery"- Clocky on Keefy

On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>
> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>
>

**Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a short term,
interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away all otehr
battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments right here in OZ:

https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/

On 9/02/2022 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>
>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>
>>
>
> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a short term,
> interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away all otehr
> battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments right here in OZ:
>
> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/

If they ever get here. They're not here yet, despite them being talked
about for some time.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>
>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>
>>
>
> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a short term,
> interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away all otehr
> battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments right here in OZ:
>
> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/

Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on line what to
do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will figure out how to
recycle but until then old batteries will be as big problem than nuclear
waste.
IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as their
promoters would like us to believe.

--
Daryl

On 9/02/2022 7:39 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 9/02/2022 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>
>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>>
>>>
>>
>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a short
>> term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away all
>> otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments right
>> here in OZ:
>>
>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>
> If they ever get here. They're not here yet, despite them being talked
> about for some time.
>

**Li-Ion batteries were first researched by NASA back in the early
1960s. BY 1965, a prototype was manufactured. It was another 30 years
before reliable versions were in production and in the hands of consumers.

A prototype Al-Ion battery was first produced in 2010. It has only been
12 years in serious development. I'd give it less than 10 years, before
they are in daily use.

On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>
>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>>
>>>
>>
>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a short
>> term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away all
>> otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments right
>> here in OZ:
>>
>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>
>
> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on line what to
> do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will figure out how to
> recycle but until then old batteries will be as big problem than nuclear
> waste.

**We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion, NiMH,
NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as nuclear
waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either gross
hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear waste
really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a problem,
compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will accelerate their
development.

> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as their
> promoters would like us to believe.

**Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet. Disposing of
batteries is a local problem.

On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a short
>>> term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away all
>>> otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments right
>>> here in OZ:
>>>
>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>
>>
>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on line what
>> to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will figure out
>> how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as big problem
>> than nuclear waste.
>
> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion, NiMH,
> NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as nuclear
> waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either gross
> hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear waste
> really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a problem,
> compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will accelerate their
> development.
>
>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as their
>> promoters would like us to believe.
>
> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet. Disposing of
> batteries is a local problem.
>

It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go into
building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge them has an
environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have a relatively
short viable service life and have significant environmental impact at
end of life.

If you want to save the environment you would have less environmental
impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years instead of buying a
new EV every 5-10 years.

On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a short
>>>> term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away all
>>>> otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments right
>>>> here in OZ:
>>>>
>>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>>
>>>
>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on line what
>>> to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will figure out
>>> how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as big problem
>>> than nuclear waste.
>>
>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion, NiMH,
>> NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as nuclear
>> waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either gross
>> hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear waste
>> really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a problem,
>> compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will accelerate their
>> development.
>>
>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as their
>>> promoters would like us to believe.
>>
>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet. Disposing of
>> batteries is a local problem.
>>
>
>
> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go into
> building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge them has an
> environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have a relatively
> short viable service life and have significant environmental impact at
> end of life.
>
> If you want to save the environment you would have less environmental
> impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years instead of buying a
> new EV every 5-10 years.
>
>

**Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may not be
applicable in the near future and certainly not in all places. In any
case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't build cars. Since the
companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we will have little choice in
what we can purchase.

On 9/02/2022 12:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a short
>>>>> term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away all
>>>>> otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments
>>>>> right here in OZ:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on line what
>>>> to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will figure out
>>>> how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as big problem
>>>> than nuclear waste.
>>>
>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion, NiMH,
>>> NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as nuclear
>>> waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either gross
>>> hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear waste
>>> really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a problem,
>>> compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will accelerate their
>>> development.
>>>
>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as their
>>>> promoters would like us to believe.
>>>
>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet. Disposing of
>>> batteries is a local problem.
>>>
>>
>>
>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go into
>> building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge them has
>> an environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have a
>> relatively short viable service life and have significant
>> environmental impact at end of life.
>>
>> If you want to save the environment you would have less environmental
>> impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years instead of buying a
>> new EV every 5-10 years.
>>
>>
>
> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may not be
> applicable in the near future and certainly not in all places. In any
> case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't build cars.

They're built somewhere and pollution is a global problem so it's
applicable irrespective of where they are built. And electricity
generation comes at a cost in terms of production and pollution. It's
not an insignificant issue.

Since the
> companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we will have little choice in
> what we can purchase.

Sure, and I don't have a problem with EV's and we have to do something
to help save this planet but EV's are not anywhere near as
environmentally friendly as proponents would have you believe, when
*all* things are taken into account.

To save this planet is going to take a wholesale mindset shift. There is
quite a philosophical discussion to be had around this whole issue but
this is not the place for it.

On 9/2/2022 4:10 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 9/02/2022 12:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a short
>>>>>> term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away all
>>>>>> otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments
>>>>>> right here in OZ:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on line
>>>>> what to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will
>>>>> figure out how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as
>>>>> big problem than nuclear waste.
>>>>
>>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion, NiMH,
>>>> NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as
>>>> nuclear waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either
>>>> gross hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear
>>>> waste really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a
>>>> problem, compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will accelerate
>>>> their development.
>>>>
>>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as
>>>>> their promoters would like us to believe.
>>>>
>>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet. Disposing of
>>>> batteries is a local problem.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go into
>>> building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge them has
>>> an environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have a
>>> relatively short viable service life and have significant
>>> environmental impact at end of life.
>>>
>>> If you want to save the environment you would have less environmental
>>> impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years instead of buying
>>> a new EV every 5-10 years.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may not
>> be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all places. In
>> any case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't build cars.
>
> They're built somewhere and pollution is a global problem so it's
> applicable irrespective of where they are built. And electricity
> generation comes at a cost in terms of production and pollution. It's
> not an insignificant issue.
>
> Since the
>> companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we will have little choice
>> in what we can purchase.
>
> Sure, and I don't have a problem with EV's and we have to do something
> to help save this planet but EV's are not anywhere near as
> environmentally friendly as proponents would have you believe, when
> *all* things are taken into account.

The most important factor in the lack of "green" in BEVs is the simple
fact that *most* electricity is generated by *coal*. That simple fact
makes BEVs as black as the coal that charges them.
>
> To save this planet is going to take a wholesale mindset shift. There is
> quite a philosophical discussion to be had around this whole issue but
> this is not the place for it.

I think this is as good a place as any, especially when you consider the
effect it is having/will have on the car industry. Headlines like this;

https://www.drive.com.au/news/nissan-to-cease-most-petrol-engine-development-report/

Says it all really.

Nissan will end the majority of its petrol engine development
in favour of electric cars, becoming the first Japanese
manufacturer to do so, according to a new report.
Nikkei Asia reports Nissan has already ceased development of
brand-new petrol engines for Europe – and will soon stop
developing new engines for China and Japan, with the US to
become the sole market for which all-new engines are designed.
Development of combustion engines for hybrid and plug-in
hybrid systems will continue, however, as will "limited"
development of petrol engines for Nissan's US-market utes and
pick-ups, the Frontier and Titan, where Nikkei Asia says
Nissan "expects a certain level of demand".

Mostly it is because the current crop of engines don't meet the new
Euro7 emission standards. Wonder if we'll get a "petrolgate" happening?

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 9/02/2022 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:

>> If you want to save the environment you would have less environmental
>> impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years instead of buying a
>> new EV every 5-10 years.
>>
>>
>
> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may not be
> applicable in the near future and certainly not in all places. In any
> case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't build cars. Since the
> companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we will have little choice in
> what we can purchase.

Just to get back to the real world for just a second, we are a *long*
way from "phasing out" IC cars. The announcements of discontinued IC
development is currently coming from a small minority of manufacturers,
while others like BMW for example are pushing ahead with IC engine
development:

> https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/bmw-forges-ahead-with-petrol-and-diesel-engine-development

The automotive world isn't anywhere near as black and white as you like
to think it is....

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 9/02/2022 11:49 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 9/02/2022 7:39 am, Noddy wrote:

>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a short
>>> term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away all
>>> otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments right
>>> here in OZ:
>>>
>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>
>> If they ever get here. They're not here yet, despite them being talked
>> about for some time.
>>
>
> **Li-Ion batteries were first researched by NASA back in the early
> 1960s. BY 1965, a prototype was manufactured. It was another 30 years
> before reliable versions were in production and in the hands of consumers.
>
> A prototype Al-Ion battery was first produced in 2010. It has only been
> 12 years in serious development. I'd give it less than 10 years, before
> they are in daily use.

And is that a random "out of the blurter" figure Trev, or do you have
some inside knowledge that suggests it's a reality?

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 9/02/2022 5:57 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 9/02/2022 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>
>>> If you want to save the environment you would have less
>>> environmental impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years
>>> instead of buying a new EV every 5-10 years.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may not
>> be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all places. In
>> any case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't build cars.
>> Since the companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we will have
>> little choice in what we can purchase.
>
> Just to get back to the real world for just a second, we are a *long*
> way from "phasing out" IC cars.

yep. reminds me of when computer experts were saying the keyboard would
be as extinct as the dinosaur by the turn of the century as computers
would be voice operated, but here we are more than two decades later
still happily tapping away. well, some of us are happy, others not so much..

> The announcements of discontinued IC development is currently coming
> from a small minority of manufacturers, while others like BMW for
> example are pushing ahead with IC engine development:
>
>> https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/bmw-forges-ahead-with-petrol-and-diesel-engine-development
>>
>
> The automotive world isn't anywhere near as black and white as you
> like to think it is....
>

a lot of things are not as black and white as Trevor thinks they are

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam
"His opinions have been crushed into insignificant dust by
the enormous weight of his lies"- Alvey on the Fraudster
"His self serving ego pumping comments just
read like witless wankery"- Clocky on Keefy

On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 18:09:25 +1100, Noddy wrote:

> On 9/02/2022 11:49 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 9/02/2022 7:39 am, Noddy wrote:
>
>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a short
>>>> term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away all
>>>> otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments right
>>>> here in OZ:
>>>>
>>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>>
>>> If they ever get here. They're not here yet, despite them being talked
>>> about for some time.
>>>
>>
>> **Li-Ion batteries were first researched by NASA back in the early
>> 1960s. BY 1965, a prototype was manufactured. It was another 30 years
>> before reliable versions were in production and in the hands of consumers.
>>
>> A prototype Al-Ion battery was first produced in 2010. It has only been
>> 12 years in serious development. I'd give it less than 10 years, before
>> they are in daily use.
>
> And is that a random "out of the blurter" figure Trev, or do you have
> some inside knowledge that suggests it's a reality?

Jaysus Fraudster!

As you refuse to provide any proof of your 'factual' claims, but here you
asking someone to support their *guesstimate*. Buffoon.

alvey

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 17:57:38 +1100, Noddy wrote:

> On 9/02/2022 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>
>>> If you want to save the environment you would have less environmental
>>> impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years instead of buying a
>>> new EV every 5-10 years.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may not be
>> applicable in the near future and certainly not in all places. In any
>> case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't build cars. Since the
>> companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we will have little choice in
>> what we can purchase.
>
> Just to get back to the real world for just a second,

O the irony...

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 9/2/22 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a short
>>>>> term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away all
>>>>> otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments
>>>>> right here in OZ:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on line what
>>>> to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will figure out
>>>> how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as big problem
>>>> than nuclear waste.
>>>
>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion, NiMH,
>>> NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as nuclear
>>> waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either gross
>>> hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear waste
>>> really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a problem,
>>> compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will accelerate their
>>> development.
>>>
>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as their
>>>> promoters would like us to believe.
>>>
>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet. Disposing of
>>> batteries is a local problem.
>>>
>>
>>
>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go into
>> building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge them has
>> an environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have a
>> relatively short viable service life and have significant
>> environmental impact at end of life.
>>
>> If you want to save the environment you would have less environmental
>> impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years instead of buying a
>> new EV every 5-10 years.
>>
>>
>
> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may not be
> applicable in the near future and certainly not in all places. In any
> case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't build cars. Since the
> companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we will have little choice in
> what we can purchase.

Yes and no, no one is compelled to buy a new car.
My car is 20yrs old and done just over 200,000km, last year I only did
6000km in it, at that rate it could still be reliable for another 10yrs.
If Covid has done anything good its that fewer people are commuting to
work so cars on average are doing less klms so no need to replace them
as often, a well maintained car doing average kms can easily last 30yrs.
Funny thing is one of the few people I know who drives an EV (Hyundai
Kona) has only done 6000km in the last 18mths because he now works from
home, hardly worth the $60k it cost his employer.
I know someone with an 11yr old Prius on its original battery, I don't
know how long they usually last but at 11yrs its at the end of its life.
There will come a time when people will need to replace their cars but
how far in the future that is is anyone's guess, my guess is its at
least 10yrs away.
In one way EV's might be a good thing, it will force people to put their
cars in their garage to charge them instead of filling garages with junk
then parking cars on the street:-)

--
Daryl

On 10/02/2022 10:01 am, Daryl wrote:
> On 9/2/22 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a
short term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away all
otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments right
here in OZ:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on line
what to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will figure
out how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as big problem
than nuclear waste.
>>>>
>>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion,
NiMH, NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as
nuclear waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either gross
hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear waste
really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a problem,
compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will accelerate their
development.
>>>>
>>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as
their promoters would like us to believe.
>>>>
>>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet. Disposing
of batteries is a local problem.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go into
building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge them has an
environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have a relatively
short viable service life and have significant environmental impact at
end of life.
>>>
>>> If you want to save the environment you would have less
environmental impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years instead
of buying a new EV every 5-10 years.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may not
be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all places. In any
case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't build cars. Since the
companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we will have little choice in
what we can purchase.
>
>
> Yes and no, no one is compelled to buy a new car.

**Indeed. However, when fossil fuels cost (say) $10.00/L, those people
may think twice. Particularly in light of this estimate:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/09/electric-cars-will-be-cheaper-to-produce-than-fossil-fuel-vehicles-by-2027

> My car is 20yrs old and done just over 200,000km, last year I only
did 6000km in it, at that rate it could still be reliable for another 10yrs.

**Sure. Same as my Nissan, except it is 21 years old. Nissan knew how to
build cars back then. However, when fuel costs me $10.00/L, I may
re-think keeping the old girl.

> If Covid has done anything good its that fewer people are commuting
to work so cars on average are doing less klms so no need to replace
them as often, a well maintained car doing average kms can easily last
30yrs.

**Sure.

> Funny thing is one of the few people I know who drives an EV (Hyundai
Kona) has only done 6000km in the last 18mths because he now works from
home, hardly worth the $60k it cost his employer.
> I know someone with an 11yr old Prius on its original battery, I
don't know how long they usually last but at 11yrs its at the end of its
life.
> There will come a time when people will need to replace their cars
but how far in the future that is is anyone's guess, my guess is its at
least 10yrs away.

**Here's the thing:

https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/average-car-price/

And this:

https://www.drive.com.au/news/australia-average-vehicle-age-is-10-1-years/

The average age of Australian cars is 10.1 years.

The average Australian car buyer keeps their car for 6.1 years. You and
I are outliers.

> In one way EV's might be a good thing, it will force people to put
their cars in their garage to charge them instead of filling garages
with junk then parking cars on the street:-)

**True. And, here's the thing. It's extremely likely that my next car
(replacing either the Nissan or the Suby) will be BEV or PHEV. It is
highly unlikely that I would consider buying a non-battery equipped
vehicle ever again. I doubt that I am alone in this view.

Something like this looks like a good idea:

https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/2022-mitsubishi-eclipse-cross-phev-review/?utm_campaign=syndication&utm_source=smh.com.au&utm_content=article_2&utm_medium=partner

For me, I would likely need to visit a servo twice a year.

On 10/02/2022 3:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 10/02/2022 10:01 am, Daryl wrote:
> > On 9/2/22 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> >> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
> >>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> >>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
> >>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> >>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a
> short term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away
> all otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments
> right here in OZ:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on line
> what to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will figure
> out how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as big problem
> than nuclear waste.
> >>>>
> >>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion,
> NiMH, NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as
> nuclear waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either
> gross hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear
> waste really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a
> problem, compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will accelerate
> their development.
> >>>>
> >>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as
> their promoters would like us to believe.
> >>>>
> >>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet. Disposing
> of batteries is a local problem.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go
> into building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge them
> has an environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have a
> relatively short viable service life and have significant
> environmental impact at end of life.
> >>>
> >>> If you want to save the environment you would have less
> environmental impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years
> instead of buying a new EV every 5-10 years.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may
> not be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all places.
> In any case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't build cars.
> Since the companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we will have
> little choice in what we can purchase.
> >
> >
> > Yes and no, no one is compelled to buy a new car.
>
> **Indeed. However, when fossil fuels cost (say) $10.00/L, those people
> may think twice. Particularly in light of this estimate:
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/09/electric-cars-will-be-cheaper-to-produce-than-fossil-fuel-vehicles-by-2027
>
>
> > My car is 20yrs old and done just over 200,000km, last year I only
> did 6000km in it, at that rate it could still be reliable for another
> 10yrs.
>
> **Sure. Same as my Nissan, except it is 21 years old. Nissan knew how
> to build cars back then. However, when fuel costs me $10.00/L, I may
> re-think keeping the old girl.
>
> > If Covid has done anything good its that fewer people are commuting
> to work so cars on average are doing less klms so no need to replace
> them as often, a well maintained car doing average kms can easily last
> 30yrs.
>
> **Sure.
>
> > Funny thing is one of the few people I know who drives an EV
> (Hyundai Kona) has only done 6000km in the last 18mths because he now
> works from home, hardly worth the $60k it cost his employer.
> > I know someone with an 11yr old Prius on its original battery, I
> don't know how long they usually last but at 11yrs its at the end of
> its life.
> > There will come a time when people will need to replace their cars
> but how far in the future that is is anyone's guess, my guess is its
> at least 10yrs away.
>
> **Here's the thing:
>
> https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/average-car-price/
>
> And this:
>
> https://www.drive.com.au/news/australia-average-vehicle-age-is-10-1-years/
>
>
> The average age of Australian cars is 10.1 years.
>
> The average Australian car buyer keeps their car for 6.1 years. You
> and I are outliers.
>
> > In one way EV's might be a good thing, it will force people to put
> their cars in their garage to charge them instead of filling garages
> with junk then parking cars on the street:-)
>
> **True. And, here's the thing. It's extremely likely that my next car
> (replacing either the Nissan or the Suby) will be BEV or PHEV. It is
> highly unlikely that I would consider buying a non-battery equipped
> vehicle ever again. I doubt that I am alone in this view.
>
> Something like this looks like a good idea:
>
> https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/2022-mitsubishi-eclipse-cross-phev-review/?utm_campaign=syndication&utm_source=smh.com.au&utm_content=article_2&utm_medium=partner
>
>
> For me, I would likely need to visit a servo twice a year.

as electric cars become more popular will IC vehicles become cheaper?

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam
"His opinions have been crushed into insignificant dust by
the enormous weight of his lies"- Alvey on the Fraudster
"His self serving ego pumping comments just
read like witless wankery"- Clocky on Keefy

On 10/02/2022 3:57 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 10/02/2022 3:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 10/02/2022 10:01 am, Daryl wrote:
>> > On 9/2/22 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> >> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> >>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> >>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>> >>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> >>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a
>> short term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away
>> all otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments
>> right here in OZ:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on line
>> what to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will figure
>> out how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as big problem
>> than nuclear waste.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion,
>> NiMH, NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as
>> nuclear waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either
>> gross hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear
>> waste really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a
>> problem, compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will accelerate
>> their development.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as
>> their promoters would like us to believe.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet. Disposing
>> of batteries is a local problem.
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go
>> into building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge them
>> has an environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have a
>> relatively short viable service life and have significant
>> environmental impact at end of life.
>> >>>
>> >>> If you want to save the environment you would have less
>> environmental impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years
>> instead of buying a new EV every 5-10 years.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may
>> not be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all places.
>> In any case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't build cars.
>> Since the companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we will have
>> little choice in what we can purchase.
>> >
>> >
>> > Yes and no, no one is compelled to buy a new car.
>>
>> **Indeed. However, when fossil fuels cost (say) $10.00/L, those people
>> may think twice. Particularly in light of this estimate:
>>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/09/electric-cars-will-be-cheaper-to-produce-than-fossil-fuel-vehicles-by-2027
>>
>>
>> > My car is 20yrs old and done just over 200,000km, last year I only
>> did 6000km in it, at that rate it could still be reliable for another
>> 10yrs.
>>
>> **Sure. Same as my Nissan, except it is 21 years old. Nissan knew how
>> to build cars back then. However, when fuel costs me $10.00/L, I may
>> re-think keeping the old girl.
>>
>> > If Covid has done anything good its that fewer people are commuting
>> to work so cars on average are doing less klms so no need to replace
>> them as often, a well maintained car doing average kms can easily last
>> 30yrs.
>>
>> **Sure.
>>
>> > Funny thing is one of the few people I know who drives an EV
>> (Hyundai Kona) has only done 6000km in the last 18mths because he now
>> works from home, hardly worth the $60k it cost his employer.
>> > I know someone with an 11yr old Prius on its original battery, I
>> don't know how long they usually last but at 11yrs its at the end of
>> its life.
>> > There will come a time when people will need to replace their cars
>> but how far in the future that is is anyone's guess, my guess is its
>> at least 10yrs away.
>>
>> **Here's the thing:
>>
>> https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/average-car-price/
>>
>> And this:
>>
>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/australia-average-vehicle-age-is-10-1-years/
>>
>>
>> The average age of Australian cars is 10.1 years.
>>
>> The average Australian car buyer keeps their car for 6.1 years. You
>> and I are outliers.
>>
>> > In one way EV's might be a good thing, it will force people to put
>> their cars in their garage to charge them instead of filling garages
>> with junk then parking cars on the street:-)
>>
>> **True. And, here's the thing. It's extremely likely that my next car
>> (replacing either the Nissan or the Suby) will be BEV or PHEV. It is
>> highly unlikely that I would consider buying a non-battery equipped
>> vehicle ever again. I doubt that I am alone in this view.
>>
>> Something like this looks like a good idea:
>>
>> https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/2022-mitsubishi-eclipse-cross-phev-review/?utm_campaign=syndication&utm_source=smh.com.au&utm_content=article_2&utm_medium=partner
>>
>>
>> For me, I would likely need to visit a servo twice a year.
>
>
> as electric cars become more popular will IC vehicles become cheaper?
>

**Unlikely, though anything is possible. After 120+ years, IC engined
cars are a very mature technology. Price falls have been continuous and
ongoing, though the big price falls occurred some 80 ~ 90 years ago.
There may be small price falls, though, with economies of scale, it is
more likely that IC cars will begin to be more expensive after 2030. We
can expect some big price falls to occur with BEVs over the next decade
or so. The average punter will buy whatever is cheaper to buy and run.

On 10/2/2022 10:01 am, Daryl wrote:
> On 9/2/22 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a short
>>>>>> term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away all
>>>>>> otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments
>>>>>> right here in OZ:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on line
>>>>> what to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will
>>>>> figure out how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as
>>>>> big problem than nuclear waste.
>>>>
>>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion, NiMH,
>>>> NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as
>>>> nuclear waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either
>>>> gross hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear
>>>> waste really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a
>>>> problem, compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will accelerate
>>>> their development.
>>>>
>>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as
>>>>> their promoters would like us to believe.
>>>>
>>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet. Disposing of
>>>> batteries is a local problem.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go into
>>> building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge them has
>>> an environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have a
>>> relatively short viable service life and have significant
>>> environmental impact at end of life.
>>>
>>> If you want to save the environment you would have less environmental
>>> impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years instead of buying
>>> a new EV every 5-10 years.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may not
>> be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all places. In
>> any case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't build cars.
>> Since the companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we will have
>> little choice in what we can purchase.
>
>
> Yes and no, no one is compelled to buy a new car.

That may well change and is *already* the case in some countries.

> My car is 20yrs old and done just over 200,000km, last year I only did
> 6000km in it, at that rate it could still be reliable for another 10yrs.

And if you weren't able to service it yourself.

> If Covid has done anything good its that fewer people are commuting to
> work so cars on average are doing less klms so no need to replace them
> as often, a well maintained car doing average kms can easily last 30yrs.
> Funny thing is one of the few people I know who drives an EV (Hyundai
> Kona) has only done 6000km in the last 18mths because he now works from
> home, hardly worth the $60k it cost his employer.

Obviously he doesn't care what it costs his employer. If I were in the
same situation, I doubt I would either.

> I know someone with an 11yr old Prius on its original battery, I don't

Whoopee doo dah, so do I.

> know how long they usually last but at 11yrs its at the end of its life.

8-10 years is their *guaranteed life*. That is way different from their
total lifespan. Anyway, the 10+ year old prius' are *hybrids*, not even
PHEV's so battery life isn't quite as critical as that for a BEV and,
what's more, costs nowhere near as much as a BEV replacement battery.
From memory, a battery pack for a Prius is less than $2k and there are
2 of them. Figure on $3.5k-$4k for battery replacement including labour.
What you will save in a few years on petrol will pay for the
replacement. Many Prius' run to 500k kilometres *still* on their
original batteries. Ditto for the Camry hybrids. That's why taxi
companies love them.

> There will come a time when people will need to replace their cars but
> how far in the future that is is anyone's guess, my guess is its at
> least 10yrs away.
> In one way EV's might be a good thing, it will force people to put their
> cars in their garage to charge them instead of filling garages with junk
> then parking cars on the street:-)
>
A lot of people don't have a garage to fill with junk nor even
off-street parking. Your plan to accommodate them is????

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 10/2/2022 3:57 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 10/02/2022 3:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 10/02/2022 10:01 am, Daryl wrote:
>> > On 9/2/22 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> >> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> >>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> >>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>> >>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> >>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a
>> short term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away
>> all otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments
>> right here in OZ:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on line
>> what to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will figure
>> out how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as big problem
>> than nuclear waste.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion,
>> NiMH, NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as
>> nuclear waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either
>> gross hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear
>> waste really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a
>> problem, compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will accelerate
>> their development.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as
>> their promoters would like us to believe.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet. Disposing
>> of batteries is a local problem.
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go
>> into building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge them
>> has an environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have a
>> relatively short viable service life and have significant
>> environmental impact at end of life.
>> >>>
>> >>> If you want to save the environment you would have less
>> environmental impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years
>> instead of buying a new EV every 5-10 years.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may
>> not be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all places.
>> In any case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't build cars.
>> Since the companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we will have
>> little choice in what we can purchase.
>> >
>> >
>> > Yes and no, no one is compelled to buy a new car.
>>
>> **Indeed. However, when fossil fuels cost (say) $10.00/L, those people
>> may think twice. Particularly in light of this estimate:
>>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/09/electric-cars-will-be-cheaper-to-produce-than-fossil-fuel-vehicles-by-2027
>>
>>
>> > My car is 20yrs old and done just over 200,000km, last year I only
>> did 6000km in it, at that rate it could still be reliable for another
>> 10yrs.
>>
>> **Sure. Same as my Nissan, except it is 21 years old. Nissan knew how
>> to build cars back then. However, when fuel costs me $10.00/L, I may
>> re-think keeping the old girl.
>>
>> > If Covid has done anything good its that fewer people are commuting
>> to work so cars on average are doing less klms so no need to replace
>> them as often, a well maintained car doing average kms can easily last
>> 30yrs.
>>
>> **Sure.
>>
>> > Funny thing is one of the few people I know who drives an EV
>> (Hyundai Kona) has only done 6000km in the last 18mths because he now
>> works from home, hardly worth the $60k it cost his employer.
>> > I know someone with an 11yr old Prius on its original battery, I
>> don't know how long they usually last but at 11yrs its at the end of
>> its life.
>> > There will come a time when people will need to replace their cars
>> but how far in the future that is is anyone's guess, my guess is its
>> at least 10yrs away.
>>
>> **Here's the thing:
>>
>> https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/average-car-price/
>>
>> And this:
>>
>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/australia-average-vehicle-age-is-10-1-years/
>>
>>
>> The average age of Australian cars is 10.1 years.
>>
>> The average Australian car buyer keeps their car for 6.1 years. You
>> and I are outliers.
>>
>> > In one way EV's might be a good thing, it will force people to put
>> their cars in their garage to charge them instead of filling garages
>> with junk then parking cars on the street:-)
>>
>> **True. And, here's the thing. It's extremely likely that my next car
>> (replacing either the Nissan or the Suby) will be BEV or PHEV. It is
>> highly unlikely that I would consider buying a non-battery equipped
>> vehicle ever again. I doubt that I am alone in this view.
>>
>> Something like this looks like a good idea:
>>
>> https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/2022-mitsubishi-eclipse-cross-phev-review/?utm_campaign=syndication&utm_source=smh.com.au&utm_content=article_2&utm_medium=partner
>>
>>
>> For me, I would likely need to visit a servo twice a year.
>
>
> as electric cars become more popular will IC vehicles become cheaper?
>
They will become more expensive. Volume sales is what makes a product
cheaper and, as IC vehicle sales decline, prices will surely rise.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 10/2/22 3:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 10/02/2022 10:01 am, Daryl wrote:
> > On 9/2/22 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> >> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
> >>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> >>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
> >>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> >>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a
> short term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away all
> otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments right
> here in OZ:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on line
> what to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will figure
> out how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as big problem
> than nuclear waste.
> >>>>
> >>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion,
> NiMH, NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as
> nuclear waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either gross
> hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear waste
> really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a problem,
> compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will accelerate their
> development.
> >>>>
> >>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as
> their promoters would like us to believe.
> >>>>
> >>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet. Disposing
> of batteries is a local problem.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go into
> building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge them has an
> environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have a relatively
> short viable service life and have significant environmental impact at
> end of life.
> >>>
> >>> If you want to save the environment you would have less
> environmental impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years instead
> of buying a new EV every 5-10 years.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may not
> be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all places. In any
> case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't build cars. Since the
> companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we will have little choice in
> what we can purchase.
> >
> >
> > Yes and no, no one is compelled to buy a new car.
>
> **Indeed. However, when fossil fuels cost (say) $10.00/L, those people
> may think twice. Particularly in light of this estimate:
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/09/electric-cars-will-be-cheaper-to-produce-than-fossil-fuel-vehicles-by-2027
>
>
> > My car is 20yrs old and done just over 200,000km, last year I only
> did 6000km in it, at that rate it could still be reliable for another
> 10yrs.
>
> **Sure. Same as my Nissan, except it is 21 years old. Nissan knew how to
> build cars back then. However, when fuel costs me $10.00/L, I may
> re-think keeping the old girl.
>
> > If Covid has done anything good its that fewer people are commuting
> to work so cars on average are doing less klms so no need to replace
> them as often, a well maintained car doing average kms can easily last
> 30yrs.
>
> **Sure.
>
> > Funny thing is one of the few people I know who drives an EV (Hyundai
> Kona) has only done 6000km in the last 18mths because he now works from
> home, hardly worth the $60k it cost his employer.
> > I know someone with an 11yr old Prius on its original battery, I
> don't know how long they usually last but at 11yrs its at the end of its
> life.
> > There will come a time when people will need to replace their cars
> but how far in the future that is is anyone's guess, my guess is its at
> least 10yrs away.
>
> **Here's the thing:
>
> https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/average-car-price/
>
> And this:
>
> https://www.drive.com.au/news/australia-average-vehicle-age-is-10-1-years/
>
> The average age of Australian cars is 10.1 years.
>
> The average Australian car buyer keeps their car for 6.1 years. You and
> I are outliers.
>
> > In one way EV's might be a good thing, it will force people to put
> their cars in their garage to charge them instead of filling garages
> with junk then parking cars on the street:-)
>
> **True. And, here's the thing. It's extremely likely that my next car
> (replacing either the Nissan or the Suby) will be BEV or PHEV. It is
> highly unlikely that I would consider buying a non-battery equipped
> vehicle ever again. I doubt that I am alone in this view.
>
> Something like this looks like a good idea:
>
> https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/2022-mitsubishi-eclipse-cross-phev-review/?utm_campaign=syndication&utm_source=smh.com.au&utm_content=article_2&utm_medium=partner
>
>
> For me, I would likely need to visit a servo twice a year.

The cost of fuel is peanuts compared to the vehicles buy price and
depreciation.
Wife's Golf is getting around 700km from its 50liter tank using it for
generally running around, 50/50 hwy city driving so compared to other
costs petrol isn't a big deal.
Had to replace a fog/turn/ side lamp H11 globe today, price varied from
$40-60 depending on brand which IMHO is nuts.

--
Daryl

On 10/02/2022 7:56 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 10/2/2022 3:57 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> On 10/02/2022 3:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 10/02/2022 10:01 am, Daryl wrote:
>>> > On 9/2/22 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> >> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> >>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> >>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>>> >>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> >>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a
>>> short term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away
>>> all otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments
>>> right here in OZ:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on
>>> line what to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will
>>> figure out how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as
>>> big problem than nuclear waste.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion,
>>> NiMH, NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as
>>> nuclear waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either
>>> gross hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear
>>> waste really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a
>>> problem, compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will accelerate
>>> their development.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as
>>> their promoters would like us to believe.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet.
>>> Disposing of batteries is a local problem.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go
>>> into building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge
>>> them has an environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have
>>> a relatively short viable service life and have significant
>>> environmental impact at end of life.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> If you want to save the environment you would have less
>>> environmental impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years
>>> instead of buying a new EV every 5-10 years.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may
>>> not be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all
>>> places. In any case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't
>>> build cars. Since the companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we
>>> will have little choice in what we can purchase.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Yes and no, no one is compelled to buy a new car.
>>>
>>> **Indeed. However, when fossil fuels cost (say) $10.00/L, those
>>> people may think twice. Particularly in light of this estimate:
>>>
>>> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/09/electric-cars-will-be-cheaper-to-produce-than-fossil-fuel-vehicles-by-2027
>>>
>>>
>>> > My car is 20yrs old and done just over 200,000km, last year I only
>>> did 6000km in it, at that rate it could still be reliable for
>>> another 10yrs.
>>>
>>> **Sure. Same as my Nissan, except it is 21 years old. Nissan knew
>>> how to build cars back then. However, when fuel costs me $10.00/L, I
>>> may re-think keeping the old girl.
>>>
>>> > If Covid has done anything good its that fewer people are
>>> commuting to work so cars on average are doing less klms so no need
>>> to replace them as often, a well maintained car doing average kms
>>> can easily last 30yrs.
>>>
>>> **Sure.
>>>
>>> > Funny thing is one of the few people I know who drives an EV
>>> (Hyundai Kona) has only done 6000km in the last 18mths because he
>>> now works from home, hardly worth the $60k it cost his employer.
>>> > I know someone with an 11yr old Prius on its original battery, I
>>> don't know how long they usually last but at 11yrs its at the end of
>>> its life.
>>> > There will come a time when people will need to replace their cars
>>> but how far in the future that is is anyone's guess, my guess is its
>>> at least 10yrs away.
>>>
>>> **Here's the thing:
>>>
>>> https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/average-car-price/
>>>
>>> And this:
>>>
>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/australia-average-vehicle-age-is-10-1-years/
>>>
>>>
>>> The average age of Australian cars is 10.1 years.
>>>
>>> The average Australian car buyer keeps their car for 6.1 years. You
>>> and I are outliers.
>>>
>>> > In one way EV's might be a good thing, it will force people to put
>>> their cars in their garage to charge them instead of filling garages
>>> with junk then parking cars on the street:-)
>>>
>>> **True. And, here's the thing. It's extremely likely that my next
>>> car (replacing either the Nissan or the Suby) will be BEV or PHEV.
>>> It is highly unlikely that I would consider buying a non-battery
>>> equipped vehicle ever again. I doubt that I am alone in this view.
>>>
>>> Something like this looks like a good idea:
>>>
>>> https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/2022-mitsubishi-eclipse-cross-phev-review/?utm_campaign=syndication&utm_source=smh.com.au&utm_content=article_2&utm_medium=partner
>>>
>>>
>>> For me, I would likely need to visit a servo twice a year.
>>
>>
>> as electric cars become more popular will IC vehicles become cheaper?
>>
> They will become more expensive. Volume sales is what makes a product
> cheaper and, as IC vehicle sales decline, prices will surely rise.
>

yes but supply and demand is what affects price mostly. if there's
strong demand for IC vehicles, and limited stock, prices will remain
high. but if demand is low, and stock is abundant, prices should fall.
however, as production tapers off, more likely the former situation I guess.

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam
"His opinions have been crushed into insignificant dust by
the enormous weight of his lies"- Alvey on the Fraudster
"His self serving ego pumping comments just
read like witless wankery"- Clocky on Keefy

On 10/02/2022 9:35 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 10/2/22 3:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 10/02/2022 10:01 am, Daryl wrote:
>>  > On 9/2/22 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>  >> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>  >>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>  >>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>>  >>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>  >>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>  >>>>>>>
>>  >>>>>>>
>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>
>>  >>>>>>>
>>  >>>>>>
>>  >>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a
>> short term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away
>> all otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments
>> right here in OZ:
>>  >>>>>>
>>  >>>>>>
>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>  >>>>>
>>  >>>>>
>>  >>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on
>> line what to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will
>> figure out how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as big
>> problem than nuclear waste.
>>  >>>>
>>  >>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion,
>> NiMH, NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as
>> nuclear waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either
>> gross hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear
>> waste really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a
>> problem, compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will accelerate
>> their development.
>>  >>>>
>>  >>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as
>> their promoters would like us to believe.
>>  >>>>
>>  >>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet.
>> Disposing of batteries is a local problem.
>>  >>>>
>>  >>>
>>  >>>
>>  >>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go
>> into building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge
>> them has an environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have
>> a relatively short viable service life and have significant
>> environmental impact at end of life.
>>  >>>
>>  >>> If you want to save the environment you would have less
>> environmental impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years
>> instead of buying a new EV every 5-10 years.
>>  >>>
>>  >>>
>>  >>
>>  >> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may
>> not be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all places.
>> In any case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't build cars.
>> Since the companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we will have
>> little choice in what we can purchase.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > Yes and no, no one is compelled to buy a new car.
>>
>> **Indeed. However, when fossil fuels cost (say) $10.00/L, those
>> people may think twice. Particularly in light of this estimate:
>>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/09/electric-cars-will-be-cheaper-to-produce-than-fossil-fuel-vehicles-by-2027
>>
>>
>>  > My car is 20yrs old and done just over 200,000km, last year I only
>> did 6000km in it, at that rate it could still be reliable for another
>> 10yrs.
>>
>> **Sure. Same as my Nissan, except it is 21 years old. Nissan knew how
>> to build cars back then. However, when fuel costs me $10.00/L, I may
>> re-think keeping the old girl.
>>
>>  > If Covid has done anything good its that fewer people are
>> commuting to work so cars on average are doing less klms so no need
>> to replace them as often, a well maintained car doing average kms can
>> easily last 30yrs.
>>
>> **Sure.
>>
>>  > Funny thing is one of the few people I know who drives an EV
>> (Hyundai Kona) has only done 6000km in the last 18mths because he now
>> works from home, hardly worth the $60k it cost his employer.
>>  > I know someone with an 11yr old Prius on its original battery, I
>> don't know how long they usually last but at 11yrs its at the end of
>> its life.
>>  > There will come a time when people will need to replace their cars
>> but how far in the future that is is anyone's guess, my guess is its
>> at least 10yrs away.
>>
>> **Here's the thing:
>>
>> https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/average-car-price/
>>
>> And this:
>>
>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/australia-average-vehicle-age-is-10-1-years/
>>
>>
>> The average age of Australian cars is 10.1 years.
>>
>> The average Australian car buyer keeps their car for 6.1 years. You
>> and I are outliers.
>>
>>  > In one way EV's might be a good thing, it will force people to put
>> their cars in their garage to charge them instead of filling garages
>> with junk then parking cars on the street:-)
>>
>> **True. And, here's the thing. It's extremely likely that my next car
>> (replacing either the Nissan or the Suby) will be BEV or PHEV. It is
>> highly unlikely that I would consider buying a non-battery equipped
>> vehicle ever again. I doubt that I am alone in this view.
>>
>> Something like this looks like a good idea:
>>
>> https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/2022-mitsubishi-eclipse-cross-phev-review/?utm_campaign=syndication&utm_source=smh.com.au&utm_content=article_2&utm_medium=partner
>>
>>
>> For me, I would likely need to visit a servo twice a year.
>
>
> The cost of fuel is peanuts compared to the vehicles buy price and
> depreciation.
> Wife's Golf is getting around 700km from its 50liter tank using it for
> generally running around, 50/50 hwy city driving so compared to other
> costs petrol isn't a big deal.
> Had to replace a fog/turn/ side lamp H11 globe today, price varied
> from $40-60 depending on brand which IMHO is nuts.
>

crazy. why would a globe cost so much?

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam
"His opinions have been crushed into insignificant dust by
the enormous weight of his lies"- Alvey on the Fraudster
"His self serving ego pumping comments just
read like witless wankery"- Clocky on Keefy

On 10/02/2022 9:35 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 10/2/22 3:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 10/02/2022 10:01 am, Daryl wrote:
>>  > On 9/2/22 3:18 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>  >> On 9/02/2022 1:14 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>  >>> On 9/02/2022 8:53 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>  >>>> On 9/02/2022 8:57 am, Daryl wrote:
>>  >>>>> On 9/2/22 5:24 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>  >>>>>> On 9/02/2022 1:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>  >>>>>>>
>>  >>>>>>>
>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/game-changing-4680-battery-goes-into-production/
>>
>>  >>>>>>>
>>  >>>>>>
>>  >>>>>> **Li-Ion batteries, as I have stated many times, is merely a
>> short term, interim step for BEVs. Al-Ion batteries will sweep away
>> all otehr battery technologies. Some VERY interesting developments
>> right here in OZ:
>>  >>>>>>
>>  >>>>>>
>> https://graphenemg.com/energy-storage-solutions/aluminum-ion-battery/
>>  >>>>>
>>  >>>>>
>>  >>>>> Problem will be if and when that new battery tech comes on line
>> what to do with all the old batteries, eventually someone will figure
>> out how to recycle but until then old batteries will be as big problem
>> than nuclear waste.
>>  >>>>
>>  >>>> **We have to figure out what to do with ALL batteries. Li-Ion,
>> NiMH, NiCd, alkaline, etc. All are problematic. As big a problem as
>> nuclear waste? Not even remotely close. You are engaged in either
>> gross hyperbole or you have zero idea of just how dangerous nuclear
>> waste really is. Thing is this: Al-Ion batteries are far less of a
>> problem, compared to Li-Ion batteries. A point which will accelerate
>> their development.
>>  >>>>
>>  >>>>> IMHO battery electric vehicles are no where near as "green" as
>> their promoters would like us to believe.
>>  >>>>
>>  >>>> **Depends. Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet. Disposing
>> of batteries is a local problem.
>>  >>>>
>>  >>>
>>  >>>
>>  >>> It doesn't "depend" at all. An enormous amount of resources go
>> into building an electric vehicle, the electricity used to charge them
>> has an environmental cost associated with it and then EV's have a
>> relatively short viable service life and have significant
>> environmental impact at end of life.
>>  >>>
>>  >>> If you want to save the environment you would have less
>> environmental impact driving some old IC car around for 30 years
>> instead of buying a new EV every 5-10 years.
>>  >>>
>>  >>>
>>  >>
>>  >> **Those comments are applicable TODAY and in Australia. They may
>> not be applicable in the near future and certainly not in all places.
>> In any case, it really doesn't matter. Australia doesn't build cars.
>> Since the companies that do are phasing out IC cars, we will have
>> little choice in what we can purchase.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > Yes and no, no one is compelled to buy a new car.
>>
>> **Indeed. However, when fossil fuels cost (say) $10.00/L, those people
>> may think twice. Particularly in light of this estimate:
>>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/09/electric-cars-will-be-cheaper-to-produce-than-fossil-fuel-vehicles-by-2027
>>
>>
>>  > My car is 20yrs old and done just over 200,000km, last year I only
>> did 6000km in it, at that rate it could still be reliable for another
>> 10yrs.
>>
>> **Sure. Same as my Nissan, except it is 21 years old. Nissan knew how
>> to build cars back then. However, when fuel costs me $10.00/L, I may
>> re-think keeping the old girl.
>>
>>  > If Covid has done anything good its that fewer people are commuting
>> to work so cars on average are doing less klms so no need to replace
>> them as often, a well maintained car doing average kms can easily last
>> 30yrs.
>>
>> **Sure.
>>
>>  > Funny thing is one of the few people I know who drives an EV
>> (Hyundai Kona) has only done 6000km in the last 18mths because he now
>> works from home, hardly worth the $60k it cost his employer.
>>  > I know someone with an 11yr old Prius on its original battery, I
>> don't know how long they usually last but at 11yrs its at the end of
>> its life.
>>  > There will come a time when people will need to replace their cars
>> but how far in the future that is is anyone's guess, my guess is its
>> at least 10yrs away.
>>
>> **Here's the thing:
>>
>> https://www.canstarblue.com.au/vehicles/average-car-price/
>>
>> And this:
>>
>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/australia-average-vehicle-age-is-10-1-years/
>>
>>
>> The average age of Australian cars is 10.1 years.
>>
>> The average Australian car buyer keeps their car for 6.1 years. You
>> and I are outliers.
>>
>>  > In one way EV's might be a good thing, it will force people to put
>> their cars in their garage to charge them instead of filling garages
>> with junk then parking cars on the street:-)
>>
>> **True. And, here's the thing. It's extremely likely that my next car
>> (replacing either the Nissan or the Suby) will be BEV or PHEV. It is
>> highly unlikely that I would consider buying a non-battery equipped
>> vehicle ever again. I doubt that I am alone in this view.
>>
>> Something like this looks like a good idea:
>>
>> https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/2022-mitsubishi-eclipse-cross-phev-review/?utm_campaign=syndication&utm_source=smh.com.au&utm_content=article_2&utm_medium=partner
>>
>>
>> For me, I would likely need to visit a servo twice a year.
>
>
> The cost of fuel is peanuts compared to the vehicles buy price and
> depreciation.

**That is true TODAY. In ten years, that may not be the case.

> Wife's Golf is getting around 700km from its 50liter tank using it for
> generally running around, 50/50 hwy city driving so compared to other
> costs petrol isn't a big deal.

**Fuel costs have never been a huge part of the expense for average to
low kms drivers. Those who do high kms have a different equation to
satisfy. Which is why taxis are almost all Camry hybrids.

> Had to replace a fog/turn/ side lamp H11 globe today, price varied from
> $40-60 depending on brand which IMHO is nuts.

**That's VW for you. In truth, it's likely to be the case for all car
importers.

Alternatively, I purchased this brand of LED for the Stagea:

https://www.banggood.com/NovSight-A500-N50-2PCS-70W-Car-LED-Headlights-Bulbs-H1-H3-H4-H7-H11-H13-9005-9006-9007-9012-Fog-Lamps-15000LM-6500K-p-1839965.html?cur_warehouse=CN&ID=518371&rmmds=search

Very, VERY nice. Should last a very long time.