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aus+uk / aus.cars / Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)

SubjectAuthor
* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Daryl
+- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Clocky
`* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Noddy
 `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Daryl
  +* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Noddy
  |`* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Daryl
  | `- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Noddy
  `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)alvey
   `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Clocky
    `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Grumpy Tech
     +* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Xeno
     |+* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)jonz@ nothere.com
     ||+- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Daryl
     ||`* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Noddy
     || `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)alvey
     ||  `- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Xeno
     |`- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Yosemite Sam
     +- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Noddy
     +* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Daryl
     |`* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Grumpy Tech
     | +* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Daryl
     | |`- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Noddy
     | `- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Clocky
     `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Clocky
      `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Grumpy Tech
       +* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Noddy
       |`- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Clocky
       +* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Daryl
       |`* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Noddy
       | +* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Daryl
       | |`- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)alvey
       | `- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)jonz@ nothere.com
       `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Clocky
        +* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)alvey
        |+* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Clocky
        ||+- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Yosemite Sam
        ||`- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)jonz@ nothere.com
        |`- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Yosemite Sam
        +* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Yosemite Sam
        |`* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)keithr0
        | `- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Yosemite Sam
        `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)jonz@ nothere.com
         `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Noddy
          +* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Xeno
          |`- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)jonz@ nothere.com
          +* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)alvey
          |`* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)keithr0
          | +- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)jonz@ nothere.com
          | `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)alvey
          |  +* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)keithr0
          |  |`* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)alvey
          |  | `- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)jonz@ nothere.com
          |  `- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)jonz@ nothere.com
          `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Clocky
           `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Grumpy Tech
            +- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Yosemite Sam
            +- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)alvey
            +- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Clocky
            +* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Noddy
            |+- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Xeno
            |`- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)alvey
            `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)keithr0
             +* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Grumpy Tech
             |+* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Xeno
             ||`* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)lindsay
             || `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Noddy
             ||  +- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Xeno
             ||  `- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)alvey
             |+- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Clocky
             |+- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Clocky
             |`* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)alvey
             | +- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)keithr0
             | `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Grumpy Tech
             |  +* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)alvey
             |  |+* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Grumpy Tech
             |  ||`- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Xeno
             |  |`* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)keithr0
             |  | `- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)alvey
             |  +- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Yosemite Sam
             |  `- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Xeno
             +* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Noddy
             |+* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Daryl
             ||`* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Noddy
             || `- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Xeno
             |+- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Xeno
             |+- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Clocky
             |`- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)alvey
             `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Daryl
              `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Noddy
               `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Xeno
                `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)jonz@ nothere.com
                 `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)keithr0
                  +* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Noddy
                  |`* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)keithr0
                  | +* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Noddy
                  | |`- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Clocky
                  | `- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Clocky
                  `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Clocky
                   `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)keithr0
                    +* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Noddy
                    |`- Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Clocky
                    `* Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)Clocky

Pages:12345
Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)

<j63c7iFmd1qU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=11061&group=aus.cars#11061

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: fel...@invalid.com (Yosemite Sam)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2022 12:01:45 +1100
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 by: Yosemite Sam - Fri, 4 Feb 2022 01:01 UTC

On 4/02/2022 10:38 am, Clocky wrote:
> On 4/02/2022 5:56 am, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 4/02/2022 1:02 am, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 3/02/2022 8:25 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 3/02/2022 1:21 pm, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, 3 February 2022 at 00:18:52 UTC+11, Xeno wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/2/2022 10:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/02/2022 9:32 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2/2/22 6:00 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There you go grumps a full house of flames, it has to be said
>>>>>>>>> though,
>>>>>>>>> that clocky did make a sensible suggestion way back before this
>>>>>>>>> became the usual flame war.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I must have missed it, what did Clocky suggest what the problem
>>>>>>>> might be?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He suggested that you might need a "good mechanic". Of course he
>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>> offering *his* services, as he isn't one :)
>>>>>> You're projecting Darren. You are the one here who *isn't* a
>>>>>> mechanic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What you two are discussing *proves* you don't understand system
>>>>>> operation and parts substitution is your only hope.
>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>> Part substitution is a *legitimate* trouble shooting option.
>>>>
>>>> If used with care.
>>>
>>>
>>> Very much so. Shotgun diagnosis can get very expensive very quickly.
>>> It's often what hacks reach for because they are unskilled in proper
>>> diagnostic procedures, too lazy to follow them or make assumptions.
>>>
>>> It's a last resort and rarely needed if you know what you are doing.
>>
>> It depends on the pressure to get a fix. If the customer is pressing,
>> and a new part is not available, switching similar parts to see
>> whether the problem moves may be the quickest way to a diagnosis. It
>> is, however something that you don't do without considering all the
>> possible consequences.
>>
>
> Worse is when a new part *is* available. Some parts can not be
> returned once fitted, especially anything that needs programming or is
> linked to the system which means if that component that cost hundreds
> or even thousands does not fix the problem someone gets to pay for it.
> You can be assured that a shonk will simply pass that on to the
> customer along with an excuse as to why it was "necessary".
>
> That's why you take your vehicle to someone who has all the diagnostic
> tools *and* has the skills to use them.
>
>> The difference between the world that you inhabit and the one that I
>> used to is the amount of pressure to fix things quickly, major banks
>> don't like their systems down, they calculate the cost in thousands
>> of dollars a minute.
>>
>
> That's just self-serving wank and irrelevant anyway I'd expect them to
> have a level redundancy built into their system if they knew what they
> were doing.

apparently they don't. how often do we see major banks offline, or
payment terminals not working, etc., also, a friend used to be a senior
player in the systems division of the ANZ and he told me the public has
no idea how often system crashes were barely avoided

> For many people where their vehicle is their livelyhood the pressure
> to resolve the issue quickly and properly is *very* real and that
> scales up. There are other reasons too but like your cheap and failed
> attempt to pump up your ego that's not the point of this discussion.
>

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam
"my own words are irrelevant"
-noddy 5/08/2017 4:12 PM

Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)

<sthu9p$20c$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=11063&group=aus.cars#11063

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From: grumpyte...@gmail.com (Grumpy Tech)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2022 11:08:06 +1000
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 by: Grumpy Tech - Fri, 4 Feb 2022 01:08 UTC

On 4/02/2022 9:38 am, Clocky wrote:
> On 4/02/2022 5:56 am, keithr0 wrote:

>> The difference between the world that you inhabit and the one that I
>> used to is the amount of pressure to fix things quickly, major banks
>> don't like their systems down, they calculate the cost in thousands of
>> dollars a minute.
>>
>
> That's just self-serving wank and irrelevant anyway I'd expect them to
> have a level redundancy built into their system if they knew what they
> were doing. For many people where their vehicle is their livelyhood the
> pressure to resolve the issue quickly and properly is *very* real and
> that scales up. There are other reasons too but like your cheap and
> failed attempt to pump up your ego that's not the point of this discussion.

You have no idea what you are talking about as usual as you have no idea
what Keith did. Whilst someone's vehicle going down is an issue it can
be resolved easily with a rental or another vehicle. Yes there are costs
involved but nowhere near the scale Keith is talking about.

There is redundancy built into systems however disasters happen and if a
system is complex, unique and extremely costly, when a disaster strikes
it is very expensive and needs to be rectified quickly. Unlike your car
that only affects one or maybe a few people, if banking infrastructure
is down it affects hundreds and thousands, if not millions of people.
The scale of the incident and the incident response are critical.

I've done some of the response on a small scale and the pressure to
resolve the incident is unbelievable. It also takes a team of people to
resolve. Quite often it's not until the field technician gets to site
that a full diagnosis can take place and parts can be ordered which then
have to be organised and delivered. Then they have to be installed and
configured. That all takes time and methodical planning. There are also
service agreements in place and it gets very costly for the business if
they cannot meet the sla's.

Think of how people complain when the internet goes down for a couple of
days or even a few hours and business stops. That's the sort of scale
Keith is talking about.

Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)

<sthvq7$tm4$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=11064&group=aus.cars#11064

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From: notgo...@happen.com (Clocky)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2022 09:33:51 +0800
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 by: Clocky - Fri, 4 Feb 2022 01:33 UTC

On 4/02/2022 6:17 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 4/02/2022 8:49 am, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 3/02/2022 10:31 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>> Part substitution is a *legitimate* trouble shooting option.
>>>>
>>>> If used with care.
>>>
>>> Substituting a known good item for a suspected faulty one is a
>>> recommended procedure in many automotive factory workshop manuals.
>>> Especially in cases where random, erratic behaviour is present.
>>>
>> Things are a bit different in the world that I inhabited, I've seen
>> good gear destroyed by careless substitution.
>
> Of course, but we're talking about finding faults in car engines here,
> where things aren't that hyper critical.
>
>

You think you can't destroy expensive automotive parts by substitution?
That's *not* the case at all.

As an example:

I was once presented a vehicle that had it's faulty transmission
replaced with a new one which had failed again within short time. An
independent "mechanic" had diagnosed and replaced the transmission.
Making no assumptions I diagnosed a faulty TCM/ECU which proved to be
the actual fault and it had destroyed *both* transmissions. The point is
assumptions and bad or incomplete diagnosis cost real time and money.

It's best to leave diagnosis to those skilled in it, not those that
think finding faults in engines is not hyper-critical and parts swapping
is a standard go-to in the factory manuals.

Those assumption can lead to some very expensive repairs which they will
pass on to you along with an ass-covering bullshit story - at your expense.

Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)

<sti08d$61d$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=11065&group=aus.cars#11065

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From: notgo...@happen.com (Clocky)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2022 09:41:26 +0800
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 by: Clocky - Fri, 4 Feb 2022 01:41 UTC

On 4/02/2022 9:01 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 4/02/2022 10:38 am, Clocky wrote:
>> On 4/02/2022 5:56 am, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 4/02/2022 1:02 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 3/02/2022 8:25 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> On 3/02/2022 1:21 pm, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, 3 February 2022 at 00:18:52 UTC+11, Xeno wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/2/2022 10:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2/02/2022 9:32 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2/2/22 6:00 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There you go grumps a full house of flames, it has to be said
>>>>>>>>>> though,
>>>>>>>>>> that clocky did make a sensible suggestion way back before this
>>>>>>>>>> became the usual flame war.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I must have missed it, what did Clocky suggest what the problem
>>>>>>>>> might be?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He suggested that you might need a "good mechanic". Of course he
>>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>>> offering *his* services, as he isn't one :)
>>>>>>> You're projecting Darren. You are the one here who *isn't* a
>>>>>>> mechanic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What you two are discussing *proves* you don't understand system
>>>>>>> operation and parts substitution is your only hope.
>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>> Part substitution is a *legitimate* trouble shooting option.
>>>>>
>>>>> If used with care.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Very much so. Shotgun diagnosis can get very expensive very quickly.
>>>> It's often what hacks reach for because they are unskilled in proper
>>>> diagnostic procedures, too lazy to follow them or make assumptions.
>>>>
>>>> It's a last resort and rarely needed if you know what you are doing.
>>>
>>> It depends on the pressure to get a fix. If the customer is pressing,
>>> and a new part is not available, switching similar parts to see
>>> whether the problem moves may be the quickest way to a diagnosis. It
>>> is, however something that you don't do without considering all the
>>> possible consequences.
>>>
>>
>> Worse is when a new part *is* available. Some parts can not be
>> returned once fitted, especially anything that needs programming or is
>> linked to the system which means if that component that cost hundreds
>> or even thousands does not fix the problem someone gets to pay for it.
>> You can be assured that a shonk will simply pass that on to the
>> customer along with an excuse as to why it was "necessary".
>>
>> That's why you take your vehicle to someone who has all the diagnostic
>> tools *and* has the skills to use them.
>>
>>> The difference between the world that you inhabit and the one that I
>>> used to is the amount of pressure to fix things quickly, major banks
>>> don't like their systems down, they calculate the cost in thousands
>>> of dollars a minute.
>>>
>>
>> That's just self-serving wank and irrelevant anyway I'd expect them to
>> have a level redundancy built into their system if they knew what they
>> were doing.
>
>
> apparently they don't. how often do we see major banks offline, or
> payment terminals not working, etc., also, a friend used to be a senior
> player in the systems division of the ANZ and he told me the public has
> no idea how often system crashes were barely avoided
>

Oh I'm well aware that their systems seem to be rather fragile. One of
the blokes from soccer does system maintenance at ANZ and he told me a
few stories.

>
>> For many people where their vehicle is their livelyhood the pressure
>> to resolve the issue quickly and properly is *very* real and that
>> scales up. There are other reasons too but like your cheap and failed
>> attempt to pump up your ego that's not the point of this discussion.
>>
>

Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)

<sti0bp$61d$2@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=11066&group=aus.cars#11066

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: notgo...@happen.com (Clocky)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2022 09:43:20 +0800
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 by: Clocky - Fri, 4 Feb 2022 01:43 UTC

On 4/02/2022 9:08 am, Grumpy Tech wrote:
> On 4/02/2022 9:38 am, Clocky wrote:
>> On 4/02/2022 5:56 am, keithr0 wrote:
>
>>> The difference between the world that you inhabit and the one that I
>>> used to is the amount of pressure to fix things quickly, major banks
>>> don't like their systems down, they calculate the cost in thousands
>>> of dollars a minute.
>>>
>>
>> That's just self-serving wank and irrelevant anyway I'd expect them to
>> have a level redundancy built into their system if they knew what they
>> were doing. For many people where their vehicle is their livelyhood
>> the pressure to resolve the issue quickly and properly is *very* real
>> and that scales up. There are other reasons too but like your cheap
>> and failed attempt to pump up your ego that's not the point of this
>> discussion.
>
> You have no idea what you are talking about as usual as you have no idea
> what Keith did.

It's irrelevant.

Whilst someone's vehicle going down is an issue it can
> be resolved easily with a rental or another vehicle.
Rent a mining truck?

It's best you stop talking to me.

Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)

<7b9cedec-9be2-4b53-a8ba-100b22433b27n@googlegroups.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=11069&group=aus.cars#11069

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Subject: Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)
From: johnhhhi...@gmail.com (jonz@ nothere.com)
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 by: jonz@ nothere.com - Fri, 4 Feb 2022 03:35 UTC

On Friday, 4 February 2022 at 12:43:22 UTC+11, Clocky wrote:
> On 4/02/2022 9:08 am, Grumpy Tech wrote:
> > On 4/02/2022 9:38 am, Clocky wrote:
> >> On 4/02/2022 5:56 am, keithr0 wrote:
> >
> >>> The difference between the world that you inhabit and the one that I
> >>> used to is the amount of pressure to fix things quickly, major banks
> >>> don't like their systems down, they calculate the cost in thousands
> >>> of dollars a minute.
> >>>
> >>
> >> That's just self-serving wank and irrelevant anyway I'd expect them to
> >> have a level redundancy built into their system if they knew what they
> >> were doing. For many people where their vehicle is their livelyhood
> >> the pressure to resolve the issue quickly and properly is *very* real
> >> and that scales up. There are other reasons too but like your cheap
> >> and failed attempt to pump up your ego that's not the point of this
> >> discussion.
> >
> > You have no idea what you are talking about as usual as you have no idea
> > what Keith did.
> It's irrelevant.
> Whilst someone's vehicle going down is an issue it can
> > be resolved easily with a rental or another vehicle.
> Rent a mining truck?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
UH-HUH.!
>
> It's best you stop talking to me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Translation:
"You got me, i can`t handle it and I`m running away!"

Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)

<j64bf6FrvphU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: use...@account.invalid (keithr0)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2022 19:54:45 +1000
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 by: keithr0 - Fri, 4 Feb 2022 09:54 UTC

On 4/02/2022 11:43 am, Clocky wrote:
> On 4/02/2022 9:08 am, Grumpy Tech wrote:
>> On 4/02/2022 9:38 am, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 4/02/2022 5:56 am, keithr0 wrote:
>>
>>>> The difference between the world that you inhabit and the one that I
>>>> used to is the amount of pressure to fix things quickly, major banks
>>>> don't like their systems down, they calculate the cost in thousands
>>>> of dollars a minute.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's just self-serving wank and irrelevant anyway I'd expect them
>>> to have a level redundancy built into their system if they knew what
>>> they were doing. For many people where their vehicle is their
>>> livelyhood the pressure to resolve the issue quickly and properly is
>>> *very* real and that scales up. There are other reasons too but like
>>> your cheap and failed attempt to pump up your ego that's not the
>>> point of this discussion.
>>
>> You have no idea what you are talking about as usual as you have no
>> idea what Keith did.
>
> It's irrelevant.
>
>  Whilst someone's vehicle going down is an issue it can
>> be resolved easily with a rental or another vehicle.
> Rent a mining truck?
>
> It's best you stop talking to me.

I've seen a major Australian bank come withing a whisker of not being
able to open any of their branches on a Monday morning because of a
software issue. It their entire technical staff working over a weekend
to discover the cause. Can you even imagine what the direct and indirect
costs of that would be? Hint: a shitload of mining trucks.

Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)

<j64bmrFs11jU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: use...@account.invalid (keithr0)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2022 19:58:50 +1000
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 by: keithr0 - Fri, 4 Feb 2022 09:58 UTC

On 4/02/2022 9:38 am, Clocky wrote:
> On 4/02/2022 5:56 am, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 4/02/2022 1:02 am, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 3/02/2022 8:25 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 3/02/2022 1:21 pm, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, 3 February 2022 at 00:18:52 UTC+11, Xeno wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/2/2022 10:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/02/2022 9:32 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2/2/22 6:00 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There you go grumps a full house of flames, it has to be said
>>>>>>>>> though,
>>>>>>>>> that clocky did make a sensible suggestion way back before this
>>>>>>>>> became the usual flame war.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I must have missed it, what did Clocky suggest what the problem
>>>>>>>> might be?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He suggested that you might need a "good mechanic". Of course he
>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>> offering *his* services, as he isn't one :)
>>>>>> You're projecting Darren. You are the one here who *isn't* a
>>>>>> mechanic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What you two are discussing *proves* you don't understand system
>>>>>> operation and parts substitution is your only hope.
>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>> Part substitution is a *legitimate* trouble shooting option.
>>>>
>>>> If used with care.
>>>
>>>
>>> Very much so. Shotgun diagnosis can get very expensive very quickly.
>>> It's often what hacks reach for because they are unskilled in proper
>>> diagnostic procedures, too lazy to follow them or make assumptions.
>>>
>>> It's a last resort and rarely needed if you know what you are doing.
>>
>> It depends on the pressure to get a fix. If the customer is pressing,
>> and a new part is not available, switching similar parts to see
>> whether the problem moves may be the quickest way to a diagnosis. It
>> is, however something that you don't do without considering all the
>> possible consequences.
>>
>
> Worse is when a new part *is* available. Some parts can not be returned
> once fitted, especially anything that needs programming or is linked to
> the system which means if that component that cost hundreds or even
> thousands does not fix the problem someone gets to pay for it. You can
> be assured that a shonk will simply pass that on to the customer along
> with an excuse as to why it was "necessary".
>
> That's why you take your vehicle to someone who has all the diagnostic
> tools *and* has the skills to use them.

The best diagnostic tool is an experienced brain.

>> The difference between the world that you inhabit and the one that I
>> used to is the amount of pressure to fix things quickly, major banks
>> don't like their systems down, they calculate the cost in thousands of
>> dollars a minute.
>>
>
> That's just self-serving wank and irrelevant anyway I'd expect them to
> have a level redundancy built into their system if they knew what they
> were doing. For many people where their vehicle is their livelyhood the
> pressure to resolve the issue quickly and properly is *very* real and
> that scales up. There are other reasons too but like your cheap and
> failed attempt to pump up your ego that's not the point of this discussion.
>
You're getting as petulant as felix. Maybe it's your mental health that
need to be worried about, you have been really down lately.

When it comes to commenting about the pressures of fixing cars against
major computer systems you obviously have zero knowledge of what you are
talking about.

Antway, pretty soon we won't need mechanics to diagnose stuff

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/02/this-ai-mechanic-scans-your-car-or-tires-to-diagnose-defects/

Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)

<stjrok$eej$1@dont-email.me>

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From: notgo...@happen.com (Clocky)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2022 02:37:00 +0800
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 by: Clocky - Fri, 4 Feb 2022 18:37 UTC

On 4/02/2022 6:44 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 4/02/2022 8:56 am, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 4/02/2022 1:02 am, Clocky wrote:
>
>>> Very much so. Shotgun diagnosis can get very expensive very quickly.
>>> It's often what hacks reach for because they are unskilled in proper
>>> diagnostic procedures, too lazy to follow them or make assumptions.
>>>
>>> It's a last resort and rarely needed if you know what you are doing.
>>
>> It depends on the pressure to get a fix. If the customer is pressing,
>> and a new part is not available, switching similar parts to see
>> whether the problem moves may be the quickest way to a diagnosis. It
>> is, however something that you don't do without considering all the
>> possible consequences.
>
> No one was suggesting otherwise, and claiming that it is a "last resort"
> shows a clear lack of any kind of real world experience.

<snip example of lack of real world experience and fake *bullshit*>

There are several of ways to determine if an injector is faulting
intermittently using a scan tool. Charging someone to swap injectors and
sending them on their way to fix it later if that is the issue is *not*
the right procedure when you can diagnose an intermittently faulting
injector whilst the oil is draining and fix it while it is in.

If you know what you are doing that is.

Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)

<j66icoFafrvU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=11086&group=aus.cars#11086

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2022 17:05:10 +1100
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 by: Daryl - Sat, 5 Feb 2022 06:05 UTC

On 4/2/22 8:58 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 4/02/2022 9:38 am, Clocky wrote:
>> On 4/02/2022 5:56 am, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 4/02/2022 1:02 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 3/02/2022 8:25 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> On 3/02/2022 1:21 pm, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, 3 February 2022 at 00:18:52 UTC+11, Xeno wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/2/2022 10:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2/02/2022 9:32 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2/2/22 6:00 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There you go grumps a full house of flames, it has to be said
>>>>>>>>>> though,
>>>>>>>>>> that clocky did make a sensible suggestion way back before this
>>>>>>>>>> became the usual flame war.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I must have missed it, what did Clocky suggest what the problem
>>>>>>>>> might be?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He suggested that you might need a "good mechanic". Of course he
>>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>>> offering *his* services, as he isn't one :)
>>>>>>> You're projecting Darren. You are the one here who *isn't* a
>>>>>>> mechanic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What you two are discussing *proves* you don't understand system
>>>>>>> operation and parts substitution is your only hope.
>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>> Part substitution is a *legitimate* trouble shooting option.
>>>>>
>>>>> If used with care.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Very much so. Shotgun diagnosis can get very expensive very quickly.
>>>> It's often what hacks reach for because they are unskilled in proper
>>>> diagnostic procedures, too lazy to follow them or make assumptions.
>>>>
>>>> It's a last resort and rarely needed if you know what you are doing.
>>>
>>> It depends on the pressure to get a fix. If the customer is pressing,
>>> and a new part is not available, switching similar parts to see
>>> whether the problem moves may be the quickest way to a diagnosis. It
>>> is, however something that you don't do without considering all the
>>> possible consequences.
>>>
>>
>> Worse is when a new part *is* available. Some parts can not be
>> returned once fitted, especially anything that needs programming or is
>> linked to the system which means if that component that cost hundreds
>> or even thousands does not fix the problem someone gets to pay for it.
>> You can be assured that a shonk will simply pass that on to the
>> customer along with an excuse as to why it was "necessary".
>>
>> That's why you take your vehicle to someone who has all the diagnostic
>> tools *and* has the skills to use them.
>
> The best diagnostic tool is an experienced brain.

No doubt about that, a most valuable tool.
Reduced the plug gaps today and there was a significant improvement, 3
out of 4 plugs colour looked ok, no2 looked black.
Since the coil packs are OE therefore 24yrs old a new set has been ordered.

--
Daryl

Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)

<stlkum$83e$2@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=11093&group=aus.cars#11093

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2022 21:53:10 +1100
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 by: Noddy - Sat, 5 Feb 2022 10:53 UTC

On 5/02/2022 5:05 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 4/2/22 8:58 pm, keithr0 wrote:

>> The best diagnostic tool is an experienced brain.

Agreed. That's why Jerky Birko works as an accessory fitter :)

> No doubt about that, a most valuable tool.

Indeed.

> Reduced the plug gaps today and there was a significant improvement, 3
> out of 4 plugs colour looked ok, no2 looked black.
> Since the coil packs are OE therefore 24yrs old a new set has been ordered.

Excellent.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)

<j6hlt2FeglhU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=11205&group=aus.cars#11205

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From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Sorry "automotive diagnostic" question:-)
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2022 22:12:32 +1100
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In-Reply-To: <j66icoFafrvU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Xeno - Wed, 9 Feb 2022 11:12 UTC

On 5/2/2022 5:05 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 4/2/22 8:58 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 4/02/2022 9:38 am, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 4/02/2022 5:56 am, keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 4/02/2022 1:02 am, Clocky wrote:
>>>>> On 3/02/2022 8:25 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/02/2022 1:21 pm, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, 3 February 2022 at 00:18:52 UTC+11, Xeno wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2/2/2022 10:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2/02/2022 9:32 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/2/22 6:00 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There you go grumps a full house of flames, it has to be said
>>>>>>>>>>> though,
>>>>>>>>>>> that clocky did make a sensible suggestion way back before this
>>>>>>>>>>> became the usual flame war.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I must have missed it, what did Clocky suggest what the
>>>>>>>>>> problem might be?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He suggested that you might need a "good mechanic". Of course
>>>>>>>>> he wasn't
>>>>>>>>> offering *his* services, as he isn't one :)
>>>>>>>> You're projecting Darren. You are the one here who *isn't* a
>>>>>>>> mechanic.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What you two are discussing *proves* you don't understand system
>>>>>>>> operation and parts substitution is your only hope.
>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>> Part substitution is a *legitimate* trouble shooting option.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If used with care.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Very much so. Shotgun diagnosis can get very expensive very quickly.
>>>>> It's often what hacks reach for because they are unskilled in
>>>>> proper diagnostic procedures, too lazy to follow them or make
>>>>> assumptions.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a last resort and rarely needed if you know what you are doing.
>>>>
>>>> It depends on the pressure to get a fix. If the customer is
>>>> pressing, and a new part is not available, switching similar parts
>>>> to see whether the problem moves may be the quickest way to a
>>>> diagnosis. It is, however something that you don't do without
>>>> considering all the possible consequences.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Worse is when a new part *is* available. Some parts can not be
>>> returned once fitted, especially anything that needs programming or
>>> is linked to the system which means if that component that cost
>>> hundreds or even thousands does not fix the problem someone gets to
>>> pay for it. You can be assured that a shonk will simply pass that on
>>> to the customer along with an excuse as to why it was "necessary".
>>>
>>> That's why you take your vehicle to someone who has all the
>>> diagnostic tools *and* has the skills to use them.
>>
>> The best diagnostic tool is an experienced brain.
>
> No doubt about that, a most valuable tool.

But only if the *experience* is in the right direction and based on a
very good understanding of electrical theory. The only experience with
electricity you appear to have is the *static electricity* generated by
your cleaning tools.

> Reduced the plug gaps today and there was a significant improvement, 3
> out of 4 plugs colour looked ok, no2 looked black.

QED

> Since the coil packs are OE therefore 24yrs old a new set has been ordered.

The only sensible step you've taken thus far. Always replace such things
in a set since they have all done the same level of work. The only time
you replace just 1 is when something *external* has caused a coil to
burn itself out, a faulty driver module for instance. Of course you
would have checked all that, right?

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

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