I am fitting a Manrose MF100T ventilation fan in our bathroom. This will
have a 3 pole isolator outside the bathroom and the plan is to run it in
conjunction with the bathroom light so that the fan comes on when the light
is operated typical of many windowless bathrooms and en-suites in many
modern houses.

The issue is that the manufacturer specify’s a 3A max. fuse for live and
switched live and of course the lighting circuit is 6A.

One option is to fit a fused spur unit into the incoming feed for the
bathroom but that means all lights beyond that point would now be protected
by a 3A fuse and the issue is that there are at least 3 ceiling fans in the
rooms beyond that point.

An alternative is to take 3-core and E cable from the bathroom light as
planned and using two FCU’s
One for live and the other for switched live before running the rest of the
cable to the 3-pole isolator.

The trouble is that I have not seen this arrangement anywhere. My daughters
new build has one bathroom, 2 en-suites and a cloakroom/WC all windowless
and all with ventilators activated by the light switch and I know all the
lighting circuits are 6A.

So what to do?

I have a link to a similar fan which unlike the instructions for the MF100T
has a wiring diagram

https://www.manrose.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/doc/FandWs/496934.pdf

Tricky Dicky <tricky.dicky@sky.com> wrote:
>
> I am fitting a Manrose MF100T ventilation fan in our bathroom. This will
> have a 3 pole isolator outside the bathroom and the plan is to run it in
> conjunction with the bathroom light so that the fan comes on when the light
> is operated typical of many windowless bathrooms and en-suites in many
> modern houses.
>
> The issue is that the manufacturer specify’s a 3A max. fuse for live and
> switched live and of course the lighting circuit is 6A.

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CLCMA3020.html

would do it. Although if it's a 6A MCB I personally wouldn't be devastated
if there wasn't a separate 3A fuse (but not strictly per mfr instructions
which might cause troubles elsewhere).

Or do you need a pull cord isolator?

Theo

On 03/01/2024 16:07, Tricky Dicky wrote:
>
> I am fitting a Manrose MF100T ventilation fan in our bathroom. This will
> have a 3 pole isolator outside the bathroom and the plan is to run it in
> conjunction with the bathroom light so that the fan comes on when the light
> is operated typical of many windowless bathrooms and en-suites in many
> modern houses.
>
> The issue is that the manufacturer specify’s a 3A max. fuse for live and
> switched live and of course the lighting circuit is 6A.
>
> One option is to fit a fused spur unit into the incoming feed for the
> bathroom but that means all lights beyond that point would now be protected
> by a 3A fuse and the issue is that there are at least 3 ceiling fans in the
> rooms beyond that point.
>
> An alternative is to take 3-core and E cable from the bathroom light as
> planned and using two FCU’s
> One for live and the other for switched live before running the rest of the
> cable to the 3-pole isolator.
>
> The trouble is that I have not seen this arrangement anywhere. My daughters
> new build has one bathroom, 2 en-suites and a cloakroom/WC all windowless
> and all with ventilators activated by the light switch and I know all the
> lighting circuits are 6A.
>
> So what to do?
>

I may be missing something but why not /one/ FCU protecting a branch
from the light circuit to /only/ the light and fan?

https://groups.google.com/g/uk.d-i-y/c/lU5icmzsuCM/m/b05BvGWYDwAJ
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 03/01/2024 16:07, Tricky Dicky wrote:
>
> I am fitting a Manrose MF100T ventilation fan in our bathroom. This will
> have a 3 pole isolator outside the bathroom and the plan is to run it in
> conjunction with the bathroom light so that the fan comes on when the light
> is operated typical of many windowless bathrooms and en-suites in many
> modern houses.
>
> The issue is that the manufacturer specify’s a 3A max. fuse for live and
> switched live and of course the lighting circuit is 6A.
>
> One option is to fit a fused spur unit into the incoming feed for the
> bathroom but that means all lights beyond that point would now be protected
> by a 3A fuse and the issue is that there are at least 3 ceiling fans in the
> rooms beyond that point.
>
> An alternative is to take 3-core and E cable from the bathroom light as
> planned and using two FCU’s
> One for live and the other for switched live before running the rest of the
> cable to the 3-pole isolator.
>
> The trouble is that I have not seen this arrangement anywhere. My daughters
> new build has one bathroom, 2 en-suites and a cloakroom/WC all windowless
> and all with ventilators activated by the light switch and I know all the
> lighting circuits are 6A.
>
> So what to do?
>
> I have a link to a similar fan which unlike the instructions for the MF100T
> has a wiring diagram
>
> https://www.manrose.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/doc/FandWs/496934.pdf
Not an answer, but a suggestion: consider having two pull switches, one
for the fan and one for the light, rather than having the fan always
come on with the light. This means you don't have the fan noise at night
time and you can leave the fan on for a while in the morning after a
vindaloo supper the night before.

Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
> On 03/01/2024 16:07, Tricky Dicky wrote:
>>
>> I am fitting a Manrose MF100T ventilation fan in our bathroom. This will
>> have a 3 pole isolator outside the bathroom and the plan is to run it in
>> conjunction with the bathroom light so that the fan comes on when the light
>> is operated typical of many windowless bathrooms and en-suites in many
>> modern houses.
>>
>> The issue is that the manufacturer specify’s a 3A max. fuse for live and
>> switched live and of course the lighting circuit is 6A.
>>
>> One option is to fit a fused spur unit into the incoming feed for the
>> bathroom but that means all lights beyond that point would now be protected
>> by a 3A fuse and the issue is that there are at least 3 ceiling fans in the
>> rooms beyond that point.
>>
>> An alternative is to take 3-core and E cable from the bathroom light as
>> planned and using two FCU’s
>> One for live and the other for switched live before running the rest of the
>> cable to the 3-pole isolator.
>>
>> The trouble is that I have not seen this arrangement anywhere. My daughters
>> new build has one bathroom, 2 en-suites and a cloakroom/WC all windowless
>> and all with ventilators activated by the light switch and I know all the
>> lighting circuits are 6A.
>>
>> So what to do?
>>
>
> I may be missing something but why not /one/ FCU protecting a branch
> from the light circuit to /only/ the light and fan?
>
>
>
> https://groups.google.com/g/uk.d-i-y/c/lU5icmzsuCM/m/b05BvGWYDwAJ

Thanks Robin that idea came to mind shortly after I posted. So thanks for
the link to the earlier thread and I think that will be the way to go. I
have used the 3-plate method but because of the 22deg pitch of our roof I
rewired the lighting circuit with a series of Wago boxes in the area where
there was a bit of headroom with single cable feeds going to the various
light fittings. So if I feed the existing feed and the ongoing feed to the
next light to the input side of the FCU I can then take the output into the
existing Wago box for the bathroom light and make all my connections there.

Thanks again

Richard

On Wednesday 3 January 2024 at 16:07:51 UTC, Tricky Dicky wrote:
> I am fitting a Manrose MF100T ventilation fan in our bathroom. This will
> have a 3 pole isolator outside the bathroom and the plan is to run it in
> conjunction with the bathroom light so that the fan comes on when the light
> is operated typical of many windowless bathrooms and en-suites in many
> modern houses.
>
> The issue is that the manufacturer specify’s a 3A max. fuse for live and
> switched live and of course the lighting circuit is 6A.
>
> One option is to fit a fused spur unit into the incoming feed for the
> bathroom but that means all lights beyond that point would now be protected
> by a 3A fuse and the issue is that there are at least 3 ceiling fans in the
> rooms beyond that point.

3x40w = 120w, half an amp
3x60w = 180w, 0.75A. no problem

> An alternative is to take 3-core and E cable from the bathroom light as
> planned and using two FCU’s
> One for live and the other for switched live before running the rest of the
> cable to the 3-pole isolator.
>
> The trouble is that I have not seen this arrangement anywhere. My daughters
> new build has one bathroom, 2 en-suites and a cloakroom/WC all windowless
> and all with ventilators activated by the light switch and I know all the
> lighting circuits are 6A.
>
> So what to do?
>
> I have a link to a similar fan which unlike the instructions for the MF100T
> has a wiring diagram
>
> https://www.manrose.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/doc/FandWs/496934.pdf

On 03/01/2024 16:07, Tricky Dicky wrote:
> One option is to fit a fused spur unit into the incoming feed for the
> bathroom but that means all lights beyond that point would now be protected
> by a 3A fuse and the issue is that there are at least 3 ceiling fans in the
> rooms beyond that point.

Just do what 95% of sparkies do, and dont bother with the fused spur.
There really is no need for it.
Or, buy a Greenwood fan, they dont require a 3 amp fuse.

--
Remove the '+' and replace with 'plus' to reply by email

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 18:41:36 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:

>On 03/01/2024 16:07, Tricky Dicky wrote:
>> One option is to fit a fused spur unit into the incoming feed for the
>> bathroom but that means all lights beyond that point would now be protected
>> by a 3A fuse and the issue is that there are at least 3 ceiling fans in the
>> rooms beyond that point.
>
>Just do what 95% of sparkies do, and dont bother with the fused spur.
>There really is no need for it.
>Or, buy a Greenwood fan, they dont require a 3 amp fuse.

What happens next time work is done at the same premises? I thought
there was a 'last man out' rule making each successive electrician
responsible for the entire system - or is responsibility restricted to
the work done by each individual electrician? I have never been sure.

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> What happens next time work is done at the same premises? I thought
> there was a 'last man out' rule making each successive electrician
> responsible for the entire system - or is responsibility restricted to
> the work done by each individual electrician? I have never been sure.

You have to ensure your own work is to regs, but you don't have to update
the work done by anyone else in the past. eg it's fine to add an extra
socket on a circuit with rewireable fuses, even though the latter is not up
to current regs. If you were adding a new way in the consumer unit you
couldn't install that with a rewireable fuse, but you could put it behind an
RCBO if that would fit in the old CU - if not you'd need to change the
board.

Practically speaking you couldn't do it any other way, since J. Random
Electrician has no idea what could be lurking in the parts they can't
access. Otherwise you'd have to tear the house apart every time you changed
a light fitting.

Theo

On 03/01/2024 20:11, Theo wrote:
> You have to ensure your own work is to regs, but you don't have to update
> the work done by anyone else in the past. eg it's fine to add an extra
> socket on a circuit with rewireable fuses, even though the latter is not up
> to current regs.

Unfortunately not. All new work must comply with current standards. So
an extra socket added onto a rewireable fused circuit would have to be a
RCD socket, or fed from a RCD spur, and, the cable must be surface
mounted, or run in mechanically proteted cable/containment,as any cable
less than 50mm from the surface must be RCD protected.
Also, the earthing and bonding must be acceptable, no bonding, then the
job cannot be done (legitimately).

Back to the 3 amp fused fan, it used to be (in BS7671) that you have to
follow manufacturers instructions, but that was changed, in either Amd 3
of the 17th, or 18th, I cant remember which. Now, you need to 'take
account' of the manufacturers instructions. Putting in a 3 amp fuse on a
RCD and 6A CB protected circuit is not going to protect anything, so it
can be ignored.

--
Remove the '+' and replace with 'plus' to reply by email

On 03/01/2024 19:38, Scott wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 18:41:36 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
> wrote:

>> Just do what 95% of sparkies do, and dont bother with the fused spur.
>> There really is no need for it.
>> Or, buy a Greenwood fan, they dont require a 3 amp fuse.
>
> What happens next time work is done at the same premises? I thought
> there was a 'last man out' rule making each successive electrician
> responsible for the entire system - or is responsibility restricted to
> the work done by each individual electrician? I have never been sure.

Nobody will GAF. There is a good argument that the 3amp fuse is
spurious, so is ignored, as, really, it does nothing, other than allow a
way of local isolation (which is not a requirement of the wiring regs.)

If you go to a house to do work, you are only responsible for the work
you have done, thats why all of the electrical certificates have an
'extent of installation covered by this certificate' box, which you fill
in to show what you have done, e.g. "added fused spur from existing
circuit 2 to supply single socket in hallway".
Fill that in, then you cannot be blamed for the socket falling off with
exposed wires in the bedroom.

--
Remove the '+' and replace with 'plus' to reply by email

On 03/01/2024 18:41, Alan Lee wrote:
> On 03/01/2024 16:07, Tricky Dicky wrote:
>> One option is to fit a fused spur unit into the incoming feed for the
>> bathroom but that means all lights beyond that point would now be protected
>> by a 3A fuse and the issue is that there are at least 3 ceiling fans in the
>> rooms beyond that point.
>
>
> Just do what 95% of sparkies do, and dont bother with the fused spur.
> There really is no need for it.

When your house burns down because of a short in the fan leading to a
fire, which would have blown a 3A fuse, you will have to convince your
insurance company that the absent fuse would have made no difference
when they refuse to pay out. Good luck with that.

--

Jeff

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 20:44:33 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:

>On 03/01/2024 19:38, Scott wrote:
>> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 18:41:36 +0000, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com>
>> wrote:
>
>>> Just do what 95% of sparkies do, and dont bother with the fused spur.
>>> There really is no need for it.
>>> Or, buy a Greenwood fan, they dont require a 3 amp fuse.
>>
>> What happens next time work is done at the same premises? I thought
>> there was a 'last man out' rule making each successive electrician
>> responsible for the entire system - or is responsibility restricted to
>> the work done by each individual electrician? I have never been sure.
>
>Nobody will GAF. There is a good argument that the 3amp fuse is
>spurious, so is ignored, as, really, it does nothing, other than allow a
>way of local isolation (which is not a requirement of the wiring regs.)
>
>If you go to a house to do work, you are only responsible for the work
>you have done, thats why all of the electrical certificates have an
>'extent of installation covered by this certificate' box, which you fill
>in to show what you have done, e.g. "added fused spur from existing
>circuit 2 to supply single socket in hallway".
>Fill that in, then you cannot be blamed for the socket falling off with
>exposed wires in the bedroom.

Thanks for clarifying that. I genuinely did not know. My guy was
installing a new consumer unit, so I suppose that creates a wider set
of responsibilities. He said he had to check the condition of the
existing wiring.

On 03/01/2024 22:14, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 03/01/2024 18:41, Alan Lee wrote:
>> On 03/01/2024 16:07, Tricky Dicky wrote:
>>> One option is to fit a fused spur unit into the incoming feed for the
>>> bathroom but that means all lights beyond that point would now be
>>> protected
>>> by a 3A fuse and the issue is that there are at least 3 ceiling fans
>>> in the
>>> rooms beyond that point.
>>
>>
>> Just do what 95% of sparkies do, and dont bother with the fused spur.
>> There really is no need for it.
>
> When your house burns down because of a short in the fan leading to a
> fire, which would have blown a 3A fuse, you will have to convince your
> insurance company that the absent fuse would have made no difference
> when they refuse to pay out. Good luck with that.

A short would trip the 6A breaker anyway. An overload would be
different, but a ventilation fan, even if stalled, would not overload a
3A fuse.

Sensibly, with such fans being connected to the lighting circuit to be
able to operate with the lights, the requirements should specify that
the fans should be suitable to be on a 6A circuit without additional
protection.

On 04/01/2024 00:00, SteveW wrote:
> On 03/01/2024 22:14, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> On 03/01/2024 18:41, Alan Lee wrote:
>>> On 03/01/2024 16:07, Tricky Dicky wrote:
>>>> One option is to fit a fused spur unit into the incoming feed for the
>>>> bathroom but that means all lights beyond that point would now be
>>>> protected
>>>> by a 3A fuse and the issue is that there are at least 3 ceiling fans
>>>> in the
>>>> rooms beyond that point.
>>>
>>>
>>> Just do what 95% of sparkies do, and dont bother with the fused spur.
>>> There really is no need for it.
>>
>> When your house burns down because of a short in the fan leading to a
>> fire, which would have blown a 3A fuse, you will have to convince your
>> insurance company that the absent fuse would have made no difference
>> when they refuse to pay out. Good luck with that.
>
> A short would trip the 6A breaker anyway. An overload would be
> different, but a ventilation fan, even if stalled, would not overload a
> 3A fuse.

I'm not talking about stalling, I'm talking about a short somewhere -
whether it's in the motor winding or any control circuitry (timer, PIR,
humidity sensor, etc) doesn't matter.

> Sensibly, with such fans being connected to the lighting circuit to be
> able to operate with the lights, the requirements should specify that
> the fans should be suitable to be on a 6A circuit without additional
> protection.

You're missing the point. Insurance companies will use /any/ excuse, no
matter how unlikely, to avoid paying out. I agree the 6A breaker should
trip, but if it doesn't and you haven't got the 3A fuse as a backup,
that's what the insurance company will focus on.

When I had a ceiling fan and light installed in a new conservatory, the
instructions stated that a 3A fused switched spur was required. The
electrician who installed the fan said I didn't need it. I told him to
put it in, and it actually proved quite useful when I had to disconnect
the power to the fan to install a new remote control receiver in it.

--

Jeff

On Thu, 4 Jan 2024 08:30:56 +0000, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>On 04/01/2024 00:00, SteveW wrote:
>> On 03/01/2024 22:14, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>> On 03/01/2024 18:41, Alan Lee wrote:
>>>> On 03/01/2024 16:07, Tricky Dicky wrote:
>>>>> One option is to fit a fused spur unit into the incoming feed for the
>>>>> bathroom but that means all lights beyond that point would now be
>>>>> protected
>>>>> by a 3A fuse and the issue is that there are at least 3 ceiling fans
>>>>> in the
>>>>> rooms beyond that point.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just do what 95% of sparkies do, and dont bother with the fused spur.
>>>> There really is no need for it.
>>>
>>> When your house burns down because of a short in the fan leading to a
>>> fire, which would have blown a 3A fuse, you will have to convince your
>>> insurance company that the absent fuse would have made no difference
>>> when they refuse to pay out. Good luck with that.
>>
>> A short would trip the 6A breaker anyway. An overload would be
>> different, but a ventilation fan, even if stalled, would not overload a
>> 3A fuse.
>
>I'm not talking about stalling, I'm talking about a short somewhere -
>whether it's in the motor winding or any control circuitry (timer, PIR,
>humidity sensor, etc) doesn't matter.
>
>> Sensibly, with such fans being connected to the lighting circuit to be
>> able to operate with the lights, the requirements should specify that
>> the fans should be suitable to be on a 6A circuit without additional
>> protection.
>
>You're missing the point. Insurance companies will use /any/ excuse, no
>matter how unlikely, to avoid paying out. I agree the 6A breaker should
>trip, but if it doesn't and you haven't got the 3A fuse as a backup,
>that's what the insurance company will focus on.

Do you think a technical non-compliance is enough? Don't you think the
insurers would need to show (on the balance of probabilities) that the
method of installation materially contributed to the insured event?
>
>When I had a ceiling fan and light installed in a new conservatory, the
>instructions stated that a 3A fused switched spur was required. The
>electrician who installed the fan said I didn't need it. I told him to
>put it in, and it actually proved quite useful when I had to disconnect
>the power to the fan to install a new remote control receiver in it.

Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 03/01/2024 18:41, Alan Lee wrote:
> > On 03/01/2024 16:07, Tricky Dicky wrote:
> >> One option is to fit a fused spur unit into the incoming feed for the
> >> bathroom but that means all lights beyond that point would now be protected
> >> by a 3A fuse and the issue is that there are at least 3 ceiling fans in the
> >> rooms beyond that point.
> >
> >
> > Just do what 95% of sparkies do, and dont bother with the fused spur.
> > There really is no need for it.
>
> When your house burns down because of a short in the fan leading to a
> fire, which would have blown a 3A fuse, you will have to convince your
> insurance company that the absent fuse would have made no difference
> when they refuse to pay out. Good luck with that.
>
On what grounds wouldn't they pay out? They'd surely have to prove
you *intended* the house to burn down as a result of not fitting the
fuse. Otherwise all accidental damage policies would be pointless.

--
Chris Green
·

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >You're missing the point. Insurance companies will use /any/ excuse, no
> >matter how unlikely, to avoid paying out. I agree the 6A breaker should
> >trip, but if it doesn't and you haven't got the 3A fuse as a backup,
> >that's what the insurance company will focus on.
>
> Do you think a technical non-compliance is enough? Don't you think the
> insurers would need to show (on the balance of probabilities) that the
> method of installation materially contributed to the insured event?
> >
Even if they did prove this I don't see how it invalidates the
insurance. One's insurance is against one's house burning down, not
against a 'random event' causing one's house to burn down. If I drop
a cigarette on the floor (not that I have ever smoked) and as a result
the house burns down then (following the same sort of logic as about
the fuse) then it's "my fault" for dropping the cigarette and for
having an inflammable carpet and for not having sprinklers installed,
etc. etc.

--
Chris Green
·

On Thu, 4 Jan 2024 09:28:07 +0000, Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:

>Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 03/01/2024 18:41, Alan Lee wrote:
>> > On 03/01/2024 16:07, Tricky Dicky wrote:
>> >> One option is to fit a fused spur unit into the incoming feed for the
>> >> bathroom but that means all lights beyond that point would now be protected
>> >> by a 3A fuse and the issue is that there are at least 3 ceiling fans in the
>> >> rooms beyond that point.
>> >
>> >
>> > Just do what 95% of sparkies do, and dont bother with the fused spur.
>> > There really is no need for it.
>>
>> When your house burns down because of a short in the fan leading to a
>> fire, which would have blown a 3A fuse, you will have to convince your
>> insurance company that the absent fuse would have made no difference
>> when they refuse to pay out. Good luck with that.
>>
>On what grounds wouldn't they pay out? They'd surely have to prove
>you *intended* the house to burn down as a result of not fitting the
>fuse. Otherwise all accidental damage policies would be pointless.

I think gross negligence would suffice. If you leave the keys in your
car, you could hardly argue that you did not intend someone to steal
it.

On 03/01/2024 22:14, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 03/01/2024 18:41, Alan Lee wrote:
>> On 03/01/2024 16:07, Tricky Dicky wrote:
>>> One option is to fit a fused spur unit into the incoming feed for the
>>> bathroom but that means all lights beyond that point would now be
>>> protected
>>> by a 3A fuse and the issue is that there are at least 3 ceiling fans
>>> in the
>>> rooms beyond that point.
>>
>>
>> Just do what 95% of sparkies do, and dont bother with the fused spur.
>> There really is no need for it.
>
> When your house burns down because of a short in the fan leading to a
> fire, which would have blown a 3A fuse, you will have to convince your
> insurance company that the absent fuse would have made no difference
> when they refuse to pay out. Good luck with that.
>
The question is the marginal case that would blow a 3A fuse and not trip
a 6A MCB and how realistic it is.

Even a failing lightbulb used to trip my 6A MCBs in a way that never
happened with old style fuse wire.

In reality you wont get a fire from a short on a 6A spur. It will trip
the whole shebang. The 3A fuse is likely to be there to protect wiring
on a 32A ring main. You would automagically put in a 3A switched spur in
that case.

--
“Some people like to travel by train because it combines the slowness of
a car with the cramped public exposure of 
an airplane.”

Dennis Miller

On 04/01/2024 00:00, SteveW wrote:
> On 03/01/2024 22:14, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> On 03/01/2024 18:41, Alan Lee wrote:
>>> On 03/01/2024 16:07, Tricky Dicky wrote:
>>>> One option is to fit a fused spur unit into the incoming feed for the
>>>> bathroom but that means all lights beyond that point would now be
>>>> protected
>>>> by a 3A fuse and the issue is that there are at least 3 ceiling fans
>>>> in the
>>>> rooms beyond that point.
>>>
>>>
>>> Just do what 95% of sparkies do, and dont bother with the fused spur.
>>> There really is no need for it.
>>
>> When your house burns down because of a short in the fan leading to a
>> fire, which would have blown a 3A fuse, you will have to convince your
>> insurance company that the absent fuse would have made no difference
>> when they refuse to pay out. Good luck with that.
>
> A short would trip the 6A breaker anyway. An overload would be
> different, but a ventilation fan, even if stalled, would not overload a
> 3A fuse.
>
> Sensibly, with such fans being connected to the lighting circuit to be
> able to operate with the lights, the requirements should specify that
> the fans should be suitable to be on a 6A circuit without additional
> protection.
>
+1

--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

On 04/01/2024 08:30, Jeff Layman wrote:
> You're missing the point. Insurance companies will use /any/ excuse, no
> matter how unlikely, to avoid paying out. I agree the 6A breaker should
> trip, bu
Bullshit.

If a 6A trip failed to trip, the insurance company would sue the
manufacturer.

--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

On Thu, 4 Jan 2024 10:31:37 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 04/01/2024 08:30, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> You're missing the point. Insurance companies will use /any/ excuse, no
>> matter how unlikely, to avoid paying out. I agree the 6A breaker should
>> trip, bu
>Bullshit.
>
>If a 6A trip failed to trip, the insurance company would sue the
>manufacturer.

Subrogated rights. They would have to prove the case though, which
could be difficult if the evidence has been destroyed in a fire.

On 04/01/2024 10:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 04/01/2024 08:30, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> You're missing the point. Insurance companies will use /any/ excuse,
>> no matter how unlikely, to avoid paying out. I agree the 6A breaker
>> should trip, bu
> Bullshit.
>
> If a 6A trip failed to trip, the insurance company would sue the
> manufacturer.

Replace 'would' with 'could'. I have never known an insurance company
sue a manufacturer. Also any contract is with the final supplier of the
goods.

Either way, feel free to provide an example of where an "insurance
company would sue the manufacturer". I know you won't be able to as per
typical of your silly claims.

On Thu, 4 Jan 2024 11:19:47 +0000, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote:

>On 04/01/2024 10:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 04/01/2024 08:30, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>> You're missing the point. Insurance companies will use /any/ excuse,
>>> no matter how unlikely, to avoid paying out. I agree the 6A breaker
>>> should trip, bu
>> Bullshit.
>>
>> If a 6A trip failed to trip, the insurance company would sue the
>> manufacturer.
>
>Replace 'would' with 'could'. I have never known an insurance company
>sue a manufacturer. Also any contract is with the final supplier of the
>goods.

Does Donoghue v Stevenson not apply in English law?
>
>Either way, feel free to provide an example of where an "insurance
>company would sue the manufacturer". I know you won't be able to as per
>typical of your silly claims.