https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67140250

<quotes>

Pictures that emerged from Al-Ahli Arab hospital on Tuesday night show scenes of chaos, with bloodied and maimed casualties being rushed out on stretchers in the darkness. Bodies and wrecked vehicles can be seen lying in the rubble-strewn street outside.

"We were operating in the hospital, there was a strong explosion, and the ceiling fell on the operating room. This is a massacre," said Dr Ghassan Abu-Sittah, a Medecins Sans Frontieres plastic surgeon who had been helping to treat people wounded in the war.

Another doctor told the BBC that 80% of the hospital had been taken out of service and estimated that 1,000 people had been killed or injured.

Canon Richard Sewell, the dean of St George's College in Jerusalem, told the BBC that about 6,000 displaced people had been sheltering in the hospital courtyard at the end of last week.

The hospital was first hit by an Israeli air strike that caused damage and injured four people on Saturday, he said. After that, 5,000 people left the courtyard - leaving around 1,000 remaining there, many of them invalids or elderly who needed transportation.

Revd Sewell said about 600 patients and staff treating them had been inside the hospital at the time of Monday's explosion, but that he believed most of those killed had been outside.

"There is no justification for this type of attack, accidental or deliberate," he added. "It is an absolute horror show which is unfolding."

Zaher Kuhail, a British-Palestinian civil engineering consultant and university professor who was nearby at the time, told the BBC that what he had witnessed was "beyond imagination".

"I [saw] two rockets coming from an F-16 or an F-35 [fighter jet], shelling these people and killing them ruthlessly, without any mercy," he said.

</quotes>

Of course we are meant to forget that Israel had previously attacked the hospital.

We are meant to believe it's not the sort of thing Israel would do, that Israel doesn't commit war crimes, doesn't murder innocent people. Even when they do and have done.

In article <20231018124143.00001403@ntlworld.invalid>,
The Happy Hippy <the.happy.hippy.nntp@ntlworld.invalid> wrote:

> Pictures that emerged from Al-Ahli Arab hospital

Bombed by Hamas.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 12:27:13 +0000 (UTC)
Loose Cannon <efbregg73@gmx-xx.comm> wrote:

> In article <20231018124143.00001403@ntlworld.invalid>,
> The Happy Hippy <the.happy.hippy.nntp@ntlworld.invalid> wrote:
>
> > Pictures that emerged from Al-Ahli Arab hospital
>
> Bombed by Hamas.

So you say but where is the evidence to prove it ?

Of course you aren't interested in evidence it's merely about blaming Hamas and steering the narrative away from Israel having done it.

It's just like Islamist terrorists in Syria pretending that regime troops had perhaps blown themselves up in barracks, same as when Ukraine claims an explosion or attack within Russian might have been the work of Russians.

Yesterday propagandists were claiming that Jihadists had somehow invented a huge warhead missile which had been tracked until it disappeared off the radar, had fallen on the hospital.

That seems to have been debunked, not that it was ever credible. It now seems what hit the hospital wasn't that huge, and this fantasy missile doesn't appear to have fallen anywhere else.

Maybe it was aliens what done it ?

In article <20231018175339.00002296@ntlworld.invalid>,
The Happy Hippy <the.happy.hippy.nntp@ntlworld.invalid> wrote:

>>> Pictures that emerged from Al-Ahli Arab hospital
>> Bombed by Hamas.

> So you say but where is the evidence to prove it ?

It's all the news, nazoid piglet. Start with this:

https://twitter.com/yousuf_tw/status/1714367757968384106

On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 17:22:23 +0000 (UTC)
Loose Cannon <efbregg73@gmx-xx.comm> wrote:

> In article <20231018175339.00002296@ntlworld.invalid>,
> The Happy Hippy <the.happy.hippy.nntp@ntlworld.invalid> wrote:
>
> >>> Pictures that emerged from Al-Ahli Arab hospital
>
> >> Bombed by Hamas.
>
> > So you say but where is the evidence to prove it ?
>
> It's all the news, nazoid piglet. Start with this:
>
> https://twitter.com/yousuf_tw/status/1714367757968384106

So Israel is to blame then.

In article <20231018184603.00001941@ntlworld.invalid>,
The Happy Hippy <the.happy.hippy.nntp@ntlworld.invalid> wrote:

[trolling flushed]

Fuck off, nazoid piglet.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 18:35:37 +0000 (UTC)
Loose Cannon <efbregg73@gmx-xx.comm> wrote:

> In article <20231018184603.00001941@ntlworld.invalid>,
> The Happy Hippy <the.happy.hippy.nntp@ntlworld.invalid> wrote:
>
> [trolling flushed]
>
> Fuck off, nazoid piglet.

It's not trolling just because you don't like hearing the truth.

First there is the awkward problem that 'if you catch a hand grenade thrown at you, bat it into a crowd of innocent people, and your doing that kills hundreds of innocent people' you are at least complicit in the deaths of those innocent people. And more so if you can reasonably foresee the consequences of your action, chose to do that rather than do something else.

Then there's the fact that no one would be lobbing missiles into Israel unless Israel had given them cause to consider it necessary to do so. And that cause is Israel's murdering of innocent people in Gaza, her war crimes, her decades of oppression, her absolute blockade of Gaza which denies two million people food and water, medical supplies, the right to life.

Plus none of the innocent people killed in the hospital courtyard would have been there if Israel hadn't bombed them out of their homes, wasn't gleefully turning Gaza into rubble.

Israel created the circumstances for these deaths. Israel is ultimately responsible for those deaths.

And another thing - You claim these people were killed by Hamas. Israel herself says the missile was fired by Palestinian Islamic Jihad. Palestinian Islamic Jihad is not Hamas, in fact they are rivals of each other.

So why are you lying that Hamas did something which was actually done by those who are clearly not Hamas ?

It's because you are a lying propagandising cunt.

In article <20231018200432.00007e57@ntlworld.invalid>,
The Happy Hippy <the.happy.hippy.nntp@ntlworld.invalid> wrote:

> her [Israel's] absolute blockade of Gaza

Oh you're such a lying prick.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerem_Shalom_border_crossing
https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-crossing-protest-violence-palestinian-erez-8d1d3cd570f27e6470f23daef4337216
https://www.timesofisrael.com/3000th-palestinian-child-has-heart-operation-in-israel-through-save-a-childs-heart/

The current blockade began only after Israel was attacked, 1,000 of its
civilians murdered, 5,000 rockets fired at its cities, w/o any provocation.

More than 3,000 heart operations on Gaza children in Israel, wow, that's
some extermination plan.

The second link is from Sep. 28, BTW.

You should combine forces with David Irving, if the fat nazi fuck
is still alive. You're exactly the same.

> And another thing - You claim these people were killed by Hamas. Israel
> herself says the missile was fired by Palestinian Islamic Jihad. Palestinian
> Islamic Jihad is not Hamas, in fact they are rivals of each other.

Same sub-human garbage, different name. Go away, you horrendous, boring,
lying sociopath.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 19:45:45 +0000 (UTC)
Loose Cannon <efbregg73@gmx-xx.comm> wrote:

> > And another thing - You claim these people were killed by Hamas.
> > Israel herself says the missile was fired by Palestinian Islamic
> > Jihad. Palestinian Islamic Jihad is not Hamas, in fact they are
> > rivals of each other.
>
> Same sub-human garbage, different name.

Which is an admission that you are a propagandising liar but you don't care.

You simply demonise as "sub-human garbage", like Hitler did, like the Nazis did, and you have the nerve to call me one.

That's beyond gas-lighting.

> Go away, you horrendous, boring, lying sociopath.

Just more demonisation and childish name-calling because you don't like your propaganda being countered.

Boo hoo hoo.

I'm not going anywhere, I'm used to it; it's what propagandist cunts do.

In article <20231018210505.000061ab@ntlworld.invalid>,
The Happy Hippy <the.happy.hippy.nntp@ntlworld.invalid> wrote:

> Loose Cannon <efbregg73@gmx-xx.comm> wrote:

All refutations of your "blockade" lie conveniently snipped, I see.

>>> And another thing - You claim these people were killed by Hamas.
>>> Israel herself says the missile was fired by Palestinian Islamic
>>> Jihad. Palestinian Islamic Jihad is not Hamas, in fact they are
>>> rivals of each other.
>> Same sub-human garbage, different name.

> Which is an admission that you are a propagandising liar but you don't care.

Same sub-human garbage, different name.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 20:10:57 +0000 (UTC)
Loose Cannon <efbregg73@gmx-xx.comm> wrote:

> All refutations of your "blockade" lie conveniently snipped, I see.

It's not mandatory to reply to all your bullshit and lies, but if you insist. I presume your will find the source satisfactory ...

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/defense-minister-announces-complete-siege-of-gaza-no-power-food-or-fuel

<quotes>

Defense minister announces 'complete siege' of Gaza: No power, food or fuel

Defense Minister Yoav Gallant says he has ordered a "complete siege" of the Gaza Strip, as Israel fights the Hamas terror group.

"I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed"

</quotes>

If that's not a blockade I don't know what is.

In article <20231018213106.00004247@ntlworld.invalid>,
The Happy Hippy <the.happy.hippy.nntp@ntlworld.invalid> wrote:

> Loose Cannon <efbregg73@gmx-xx.comm> wrote:

>> All refutations of your "blockade" lie conveniently snipped, I see.

> "I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip.
>
> If that's not a blockade I don't know what is.

Sigh. Only AFTER the attack, the murder of 1,000 civilians, the
5,000 rockets fired at Israeli cities. During periods of peace
there was no blockade. Goods went through, Gazans were allowed
to enter Israel and work there, and Israel provided generous
medical assistance to Gazans.

You're not only a fucking, lying retard, you're a terribly boring
one. Jesus H. Christ... were your parents also fucking 'tards? I
don't think that this level can be achieved in just one generation.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 21:33:50 +0000 (UTC)
Loose Cannon <efbregg73@gmx-xx.comm> wrote:

> You're not only a fucking, lying retard, you're a terribly boring
> one. Jesus H. Christ... were your parents also fucking 'tards? I
> don't think that this level can be achieved in just one generation.

Just more childish demonisation.

Loose Cannon wrote:
> In article <20231018200432.00007e57@ntlworld.invalid>,
> The Happy Hippy <the.happy.hippy.nntp@ntlworld.invalid> wrote:
>
>> her [Israel's] absolute blockade of Gaza
>
> Oh you're such a lying prick.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerem_Shalom_border_crossing
> https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-crossing-protest-violence-palestinian-erez-8d1d3cd570f27e6470f23daef4337216
> https://www.timesofisrael.com/3000th-palestinian-child-has-heart-operation-in-israel-through-save-a-childs-heart/
>
> The current blockade began only after Israel was attacked, 1,000 of its
> civilians murdered, 5,000 rockets fired at its cities, w/o any provocation.
>
> More than 3,000 heart operations on Gaza children in Israel, wow, that's
> some extermination plan.

Wait, so you are saying the JOOS are NOT committing war crimes enforcing
a siege ?
You may totally agree with it, so might I but lets call a spade "a
spade", sieges/"collective punishment" [as they wingnuts like to call
it] are contrary to international treaties that they have signed ,, So
is the indiscriminate bombing that they are arguably engaged in.

You don't have 1,000's of civilians dead in a week with accurate
targeting - And fighting an enemy that hides behind civilians is not a
valid excuse for blowing them up no matter how many non combatants get
blown up with them.

The JOOS have said often since this started "We are a civilized people
fighting animals" ,, And that may be partially true insofar as they are
not the ones kidnapping grandmas and murdering kids in their beds - But
many will ask "is blowing them up that much better" ?

If it takes evil to beat evil [ala WW2], if the gloves are off and
anything goes against a brutal, remorseless enemy, then say so instead
of pretending to abide by the rules of treaties they have signed.
Renounce/suspend obligations under those treaties and do what needs to
be done ,, But then they would be labeled a pariah state, for sure widen
the conflict and most important of all - Make it very difficult for
sugar daddy Xidens puppet master to continue their knee jerk support.

You might have guessed, the main thing that bothers me is not dead
muslims or JOOS but that it is being financed by US taxpayers - If the
JOOS were doing it all by themselves I'd cheer both sides to rip each
other to shreds, as I have done in the past.

But here we have the ridiculous specter of Xiden flying in non stop
loads of munitions to Israel [I counted no fewer than 9 US transports,
C-17's and C-5's flying there just today],, And the senile buffoon
announces we are giving the Palis $100,000,000 in aid, presumably so
they don't get blown up on an empty stomach.

And to think, people were worried about Trump dragging us into endless
wars ,,

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 19:45:45 +0000 (UTC)
Loose Cannon <efbregg73@gmx-xx.comm> wrote:

> The current blockade began only after Israel was attacked, 1,000 of
> its civilians murdered, 5,000 rockets fired at its cities, w/o any
> provocation.

"Without any provocation" is simply a propaganda lie. Israel has been oppressing and abusing Palestinians for decades.

They have been poking the dog with a stick for years and it finally bit back.

In article <hB%XM.59171$sxoa.43993@fx13.iad>, JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> Loose Cannon wrote:

>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerem_Shalom_border_crossing
>> https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-crossing-protest-violence-palestinian-erez-8d1d3cd570f27e6470f23daef4337216
>> https://www.timesofisrael.com/3000th-palestinian-child-has-heart-operation-in-israel-through-save-a-childs-heart/
>>
>> The current blockade began only after Israel was attacked, 1,000 of its
>> civilians murdered, 5,000 rockets fired at its cities, w/o any provocation.
>>
>> More than 3,000 heart operations on Gaza children in Israel, wow, that's
>> some extermination plan.

> Wait, so you are saying the JOOS are NOT committing war crimes enforcing a siege ?

There are two related, yet distinct, issues here.

First: there will not be any siege, nor mass starvation, in Gaza. Our resident
would-be baby murderer is wrong about this, just as he's wrong about everything
else he's ever posted about.

Second: I was referring to the pre-war situation. There are two myths
which the baby murderers and their supporters keep chanting, in their
attempt to justify Nazi-style mass murder committed by the Islamofascists:

1) "Gaza is occupied". It's not. Israel left it in 2005. True, they should
have left earlier, but that's history; they did leave, nearly 20 years ago.

2) "Gaza is under blockade". More garbage. During peaceful times, huge
amounts of goods entered Gaza, Gazan workers were allowed to enter
Israel and earn a living there, and as noted, Israel provided extensive
medical assistance to numerous Gaza children.

"According to the United Nations, a total of 95,789 truckloads of goods and
6,102 truckloads of fuel entered Gaza via Kerem Shalom in 2019", etc. etc. etc.

Just a week before the recent massacre of 1,000 Israeli civilians in one
day, Israel *increased* the number of Gazan workers who can enter Israel.

Another fact that the baby killers and their supporters (like dippy)
somehow manage to keep "forgetting", is that Egypt imposes an even
harsher blockade on Gaza than Israel does. The propagandist scum
had managed to draw an image of Gaza as a hermetically sealed enclave
surrounded by The IDF. A colossal lie, of course.

> You don't have 1,000's of civilians dead in a week with accurate
> targeting -

I doubt the numbers, which are being reported 20 seconds after the
bombs fall, and I ask myself how many more Gazans were killed by
Hamas/Jihad rockets, in addition to those in the hospital. But:

Report on Hamas' use of human shields in Gaza
https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf

"By engaging in these acts, Hamas employs a win-win scenario: if indeed the IDF
uses kinetic power, and the number of civilian causalities surges, Hamas can
use that as a weapon in the lawfare it conducts. It would be able to accuse
the IDF (and Israel) of committing war crimes, which in turn could result in
the imposition of a wide array of sanctions. On the other hand, if the IDF limits
its use of military power in Gaza to avoid collateral damage, Hamas will be less
vulnerable to Israeli attacks, and thereby able to protect its assets while
continuing to fight."

So, again, "what would YOU do?"

Sorry I can't reply to all the rest, but I do have a job... just a brief
comment: I believe that Biden (for all his faults) does honestly believe
that the West must take a stand here, or it will be the next victim.

Hamas' dream of world conquest and Islamic rule over the
entire planet, w/o any "Jews or Christian traitors"
*******************************************************
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt0Gz7XOuKY
https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-765304?dicbo=v2-6NXz5D9

They say it, and they mean it. Obviously they don't hope to storm
the US and take it by force, but to wear us out by numerous
terror attacks, until we give in and become Muslims (of the
correct sect, of course, as these Muslim sects hate and butcher
each other with nearly the same ferocity with which they butcher
Jews). It's their long range plan, and if they defeat Israel,
it will give them complete confidence that they can crush us; and
even if they fail, we will pay a terrible price.

In article <20231019115910.00000695@ntlworld.invalid>,
The Happy Hippy <the.happy.hippy.nntp@ntlworld.invalid> wrote:

>> The current blockade began only after Israel was attacked, 1,000 of
>> its civilians murdered, 5,000 rockets fired at its cities, w/o any
>> provocation.

> "Without any provocation" is simply a propaganda lie.

<quote>

There are two myths which the baby murderers and their supporters keep
chanting, in their attempt to justify Nazi-style mass murder committed
by the Islamofascists:

1) "Gaza is occupied". It's not. Israel left it in 2005. True, they should
have left earlier, but that's history; they did leave, nearly 20 years ago.

2) "Gaza is under blockade". More garbage. During peaceful times, huge
amounts of goods entered Gaza, Gazan workers were allowed to enter
Israel and earn a living there, and as noted, Israel provided extensive
medical assistance to numerous Gaza children.

"According to the United Nations, a total of 95,789 truckloads of goods and
6,102 truckloads of fuel entered Gaza via Kerem Shalom in 2019", etc. etc. etc.

Just a week before the recent massacre of 1,000 Israeli civilians in one
day, Israel *increased* the number of Gazan workers who can enter Israel.

Another fact that the baby killers and their supporters (like dippy)
somehow manage to keep "forgetting", is that Egypt imposes an even
harsher blockade on Gaza than Israel does. The propagandist scum
had managed to draw an image of Gaza as a hermetically sealed enclave
surrounded by The IDF. A colossal lie, of course.

</quote>

Loose Cannon wrote:
> In article <hB%XM.59171$sxoa.43993@fx13.iad>, JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>
>> Loose Cannon wrote:
>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerem_Shalom_border_crossing
>>> https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-crossing-protest-violence-palestinian-erez-8d1d3cd570f27e6470f23daef4337216
>>> https://www.timesofisrael.com/3000th-palestinian-child-has-heart-operation-in-israel-through-save-a-childs-heart/
>>>
>>> The current blockade began only after Israel was attacked, 1,000 of its
>>> civilians murdered, 5,000 rockets fired at its cities, w/o any provocation.
>>>
>>> More than 3,000 heart operations on Gaza children in Israel, wow, that's
>>> some extermination plan.
>
>> Wait, so you are saying the JOOS are NOT committing war crimes enforcing a siege ?
>
> There are two related, yet distinct, issues here.
>
> First: there will not be any siege, nor mass starvation, in Gaza. Our resident
> would-be baby murderer is wrong about this, just as he's wrong about everything
> else he's ever posted about.
>
> Second: I was referring to the pre-war situation. There are two myths
> which the baby murderers and their supporters keep chanting, in their
> attempt to justify Nazi-style mass murder committed by the Islamofascists:

Lets get it straight - Being engaged in active combat does not allow
exceptions to commit war crimes, in fact, they were designed and
implemented for war.
I may not like it, I know you sure don't, but no one forced them to sign.

Simple question - As we speak, is Israel committing war crimes ?

>
> 2) "Gaza is under blockade". More garbage. During peaceful times, huge
> amounts of goods entered Gaza, Gazan workers were allowed to enter
> Israel and earn a living there, and as noted, Israel provided extensive
> medical assistance to numerous Gaza children.
>
> "According to the United Nations, a total of 95,789 truckloads of goods and
> 6,102 truckloads of fuel entered Gaza via Kerem Shalom in 2019", etc. etc. etc.
>
> Just a week before the recent massacre of 1,000 Israeli civilians in one
> day, Israel *increased* the number of Gazan workers who can enter Israel.
>
>
> So, again, "what would YOU do?"

I happen to have a job too and in fact have to go right now, I'll tackle
that one in another post, though I have already answered that, unasked,
in other posts
>
> Sorry I can't reply to all the rest, but I do have a job... just a brief
> comment: I believe that Biden (for all his faults) does honestly believe
> that the West must take a stand here, or it will be the next victim.
>
Spare me, you are even more daft that I had thought - With the uncounted
1,000,000's of 3rd world grifters and dregs he has allowed and even
encouraged to crash the border, with many more to come [including
directly from gaza], I hardly think that consideration for the safety of
"the west" ranks high among his string pullers priorities.

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

In article <UGbYM.59290$sxoa.34262@fx13.iad>, JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> Loose Cannon wrote:

[...]

> Lets get it straight - Being engaged in active combat does not allow
> exceptions to commit war crimes, in fact, they were designed and
> implemented for war.
> I may not like it, I know you sure don't, but no one forced them to sign.
>
> Simple question - As we speak, is Israel committing war crimes ?

Not simple at all. First, I don't know the exact definition; second,
I doubt that it was written with the Hamas in mind, as they fight an
altogether different type of "war".

Brits incinerated 500,000 German civilians, we did our share of bad
things, Soviets raped millions, what the Japanese did in China we all
know... Israel, so far, hadn't done anything similar. But the dippys
of this world blame Israel, and Israel only (while cheering for Hamas
and mass murderer Putin).

While Israel certainly did bad things, they at least have the justification
of fighting ruthless enemies, who have repeatedly declared their intent to
exterminate them; and they're fighting them miles away from their homes.

[...]

>> So, again, "what would YOU do?"

> I happen to have a job too and in fact have to go right now, I'll tackle
> that one in another post, though I have already answered that, unasked,
> in other posts

Yes, saw that.
>> Sorry I can't reply to all the rest, but I do have a job... just a brief
>> comment: I believe that Biden (for all his faults) does honestly believe
>> that the West must take a stand here, or it will be the next victim.

> Spare me, you are even more daft that I had thought - With the uncounted
> 1,000,000's of 3rd world grifters and dregs he has allowed and even
> encouraged to crash the border, with many more to come [including
> directly from gaza], I hardly think that consideration for the safety of
> "the west" ranks high among his string pullers priorities.

I wasn't defending the horribly stupid things Biden did and does. I
speculated on his motives and beliefs vis-a-vis the Gaza-Israel war.

And I say again: if the barbarians win, it will be bad for all of us.
We're stuck in this, whether we want to or not. It may seem as a joke,
"sure, Hamas wants to rule the world, ha-ha". But it's not, and they
have Iran's backing.

That motherless fuck Jimmy Carter caved in to the crazy Iranian
cockroaches, and look what this lead to. It should have been "release
the hostages in two hours, or the B-52s will begin decimating your
armed forces; this is the first and last warning". We're paying
the price for his crime until now, and we'll keep paying it, until
someone does the correct thing - or maybe it's just too fucking late.

On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 14:16:23 +0000 (UTC)
Loose Cannon <efbregg73@gmx-xx.comm> wrote:

> In article <20231019115910.00000695@ntlworld.invalid>,
> The Happy Hippy <the.happy.hippy.nntp@ntlworld.invalid> wrote:
>
> >> The current blockade began only after Israel was attacked, 1,000 of
> >> its civilians murdered, 5,000 rockets fired at its cities, w/o any
> >> provocation.
>
> > "Without any provocation" is simply a propaganda lie.
>
> <quote>
>
> There are two myths which the baby murderers and their supporters keep
> chanting

Just more demonising propaganda and childish name calling.

Israel are "baby murderers" as well, though I am sure you and the fascist Israelis you support would consider their murder of Palestinian babies as merely 'flushing away sub-human garbage'.

You have more than just a little in common with Hitler and the Nazis.

To try and pretend Israel hasn't oppressed Palestinians, hasn't abused Palestinians, is just laughable.

It's not just specific actions by Israel, the state and her people, especially right wing nutjobs, Zionist and Jewish extremists and fundamentalists; it all adds up.

Of course you will pretend not to remember the murder and abuse of Palestinians by Israelis at the Al-Aqsa mosque just days before Hamas took their revenge.

And you will pretend not to recall all prior murders and abuses of Palestinians, at Al-Aqsa and elsewhere.

I guess you will have forgotten the obscene sight of Israeli riot police attacking mourners at the funeral of acclaimed journalist Shireen Abu Akleh.

And you will no doubt have forgotten that she was murdered by Israel who lied about murdering her, and tried to blame Palestinians for her murder.

Others haven't and especially not Palestinians.

On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 14:11:03 +0000 (UTC)
Loose Cannon <efbregg73@gmx-xx.comm> wrote:

> In article <hB%XM.59171$sxoa.43993@fx13.iad>, JeSSe <zo@so.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Loose Cannon wrote:
>
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerem_Shalom_border_crossing
> >> https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-crossing-protest-violence-palestinian-erez-8d1d3cd570f27e6470f23daef4337216
> >> https://www.timesofisrael.com/3000th-palestinian-child-has-heart-operation-in-israel-through-save-a-childs-heart/
> >>
> >> The current blockade began only after Israel was attacked, 1,000
> >> of its civilians murdered, 5,000 rockets fired at its cities, w/o
> >> any provocation.
> >>
> >> More than 3,000 heart operations on Gaza children in Israel, wow,
> >> that's some extermination plan.
>
> > Wait, so you are saying the JOOS are NOT committing war crimes
> > enforcing a siege ?
>
> There are two related, yet distinct, issues here.
>
> First: there will not be any siege, nor mass starvation, in Gaza. Our
> resident would-be baby murderer is wrong about this, just as he's
> wrong about everything else he's ever posted about.

Except there is, exactly as Israel's Defence Minister told us they would be.

And fuck off with the "baby murderer" bullshit you demonising propagandist cunt. It's you who supports the murder of innocent people, not me.

Loose Cannon wrote:
> In article <UGbYM.59290$sxoa.34262@fx13.iad>, JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:
>
>> Loose Cannon wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> Lets get it straight - Being engaged in active combat does not allow
>> exceptions to commit war crimes, in fact, they were designed and
>> implemented for war.
>> I may not like it, I know you sure don't, but no one forced them to sign.
>>
>> Simple question - As we speak, is Israel committing war crimes ?
>
> Not simple at all. First, I don't know the exact definition; second,
> I doubt that it was written with the Hamas in mind, as they fight an
> altogether different type of "war".
>
> Brits incinerated 500,000 German civilians, we did our share of bad
> things, Soviets raped millions, what the Japanese did in China we all
> know... Israel, so far, hadn't done anything similar. But the dippys
> of this world blame Israel, and Israel only (while cheering for Hamas
> and mass murderer Putin).
>
> While Israel certainly did bad things, they at least have the justification
> of fighting ruthless enemies, who have repeatedly declared their intent to
> exterminate them; and they're fighting them miles away from their homes.

Just making a point, as a sheer matter of accuracy, that using siege
tactics against civilian populations is a breach of international law,
so they are committing war crimes by doing so, regardless of what we
ourselves did in WW2

Alot of anti Israel people don't see them as a legit country, I see that
point and insofar as they could not do what they are doing without
massive help from us, they are not. I say this now, I have said it
repeatedly for years, they are more or less our proxy, with powerful and
inordinate influence in high quarters in this nation.

As far as whos land is it, is it occupied territory, are they colonizers
ect, I recognize that land, any land, belongs to those strong enough to
take it and hold it, always has been that way and it always will be - I
recognize the JOOS as the defacto owners of the land they sit on, with
the actual borders being in a [perhaps eternal] state of flux.

>
> [...]
>
>>> So, again, "what would YOU do?"
>
>> I happen to have a job too and in fact have to go right now, I'll tackle
>> that one in another post, though I have already answered that, unasked,
>> in other posts
>
> Yes, saw that.
>
>>> Sorry I can't reply to all the rest, but I do have a job... just a brief
>>> comment: I believe that Biden (for all his faults) does honestly believe
>>> that the West must take a stand here, or it will be the next victim.
>
>> Spare me, you are even more daft that I had thought - With the uncounted
>> 1,000,000's of 3rd world grifters and dregs he has allowed and even
>> encouraged to crash the border, with many more to come [including
>> directly from gaza], I hardly think that consideration for the safety of
>> "the west" ranks high among his string pullers priorities.
>
> I wasn't defending the horribly stupid things Biden did and does. I
> speculated on his motives and beliefs vis-a-vis the Gaza-Israel war.
>
> And I say again: if the barbarians win, it will be bad for all of us.
> We're stuck in this, whether we want to or not. It may seem as a joke,
> "sure, Hamas wants to rule the world, ha-ha". But it's not, and they
> have Iran's backing.

It is true, muslims in general are virulent - And Palis in particular
are of the most toxic variety, so bad that their fellow muslim neighbors
will beat therm away with a stick to keep them from roosting in their
lands ,, But of course are always too happy to play lip service while US
taxpayers get the burden of feeding them and subsidizing their existence
while they plot to blow us up ,, And I say again, there will soon be
plane loads of them coming, once the Bolsheviks start pandering, it does
not stop.
They have destroyed ancient Christian communities in numerous countries,
are doing so as we speak, and there is no reason to assume they don't
desire the same for our lands, their bloodlust and zealotry will never
be sated.

> That motherless fuck Jimmy Carter caved in to the crazy Iranian
> cockroaches, and look what this lead to. It should have been "release
> the hostages in two hours, or the B-52s will begin decimating your
> armed forces; this is the first and last warning". We're paying
> the price for his crime until now, and we'll keep paying it, until
> someone does the correct thing - or maybe it's just too fucking late.

I know I am blowing hot & cold on this, sticking up for JOOS in one post
and slamming them in the next. It is unusual and unnatural for me to be
sticking up for either, I can see points of both sides but for me, all
I have to do [for now[ is refresh my memory what started this, we have
never seen a large scale raid of another country whos purpose was solely
to kill and kidnap the most helpless of civilians, and perhaps to
provoke the very reaction we are witnessing.

When I see who is standing with the terrorists, the leftists, the
hippys, BLM, brainwashed university scum ect, I will never have any
solidarity with rabble like that, and I stand with those against
kidnapping grandmas and murdering babies - Though I despise JOOS they
did not bring this on themselves

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

In article <20231019212046.000071c4@ntlworld.invalid>,
The Happy Hippy <the.happy.hippy.nntp@ntlworld.invalid> wrote:

> Israel are "baby murderers" as well,

The sum total of your arguments:

"The Nazis killed babies? So what, the British were baby murderers as well".

In article <HklYM.123911$2fS.118697@fx16.iad>, JeSSe <zo@so.org> wrote:

> Just making a point, as a sheer matter of accuracy, that using siege
> tactics against civilian populations is a breach of international law,
> so they are committing war crimes by doing so, regardless of what we
> ourselves did in WW2

Humanitarian aid will arrive, just as I predicted. And BTW I still
wonder why no one mentions that Egypt is also blockading Gaza.

> Alot of anti Israel people don't see them as a legit country, I see that
> point and insofar as they could not do what they are doing without
> massive help from us, they are not. I say this now, I have said it
> repeatedly for years, they are more or less our proxy, with powerful and
> inordinate influence in high quarters in this nation.
>
> As far as whos land is it, is it occupied territory,

It's more complicated than that IMHO, but I will restrict myself
to noting that Israel was legitimized by a UN vote. "Occupied" -
but from who?

Since 1948, when the Arabs declared that they refuse to ack Israel
and that they are going to annihilate all the Jews living in it,
it's been the same. Like rabid dogs, they will never live and let
live. One only needs to observe how many Muslims in the ME died
in all their confrontations with Israel, vs. how many died at
the hand of other Muslims.

In 1967, the PLO Chairman said that after the 1967 war, "the Jews
who survive will be allowed to return to Europe, but my estimation
is that no one will survive". And the PLO was moderate w.r.t Hamas.

[...]

>> And I say again: if the barbarians win, it will be bad for all of us.
>> We're stuck in this, whether we want to or not. It may seem as a joke,
>> "sure, Hamas wants to rule the world, ha-ha". But it's not, and they
>> have Iran's backing.

> It is true, muslims in general are virulent - And Palis in particular
> are of the most toxic variety, so bad that their fellow muslim neighbors
> will beat therm away with a stick to keep them from roosting in their
> lands ,, But of course are always too happy to play lip service while US
> taxpayers get the burden of feeding them and subsidizing their existence
> while they plot to blow us up ,, And I say again, there will soon be
> plane loads of them coming, once the Bolsheviks start pandering, it does
> not stop.
> They have destroyed ancient Christian communities in numerous countries,
> are doing so as we speak, and there is no reason to assume they don't
> desire the same for our lands, their bloodlust and zealotry will never
> be sated.

Total agreement here, and I think that Europe has also realized this
by now. Too late, alas...

>> That motherless fuck Jimmy Carter caved in to the crazy Iranian
>> cockroaches, and look what this lead to. It should have been "release
>> the hostages in two hours, or the B-52s will begin decimating your
>> armed forces; this is the first and last warning". We're paying
>> the price for his crime until now, and we'll keep paying it, until
>> someone does the correct thing - or maybe it's just too fucking late.

> I know I am blowing hot & cold on this, sticking up for JOOS in one post
> and slamming them in the next. It is unusual and unnatural for me to be
> sticking up for either, I can see points of both sides but for me, all
> I have to do [for now[ is refresh my memory what started this, we have
> never seen a large scale raid of another country whos purpose was solely
> to kill and kidnap the most helpless of civilians, and perhaps to
> provoke the very reaction we are witnessing.
>
> When I see who is standing with the terrorists, the leftists, the
> hippys, BLM, brainwashed university scum ect, I will never have any
> solidarity with rabble like that, and I stand with those against
> kidnapping grandmas and murdering babies - Though I despise JOOS they
> did not bring this on themselves

I don't despise JOOS, I don't even inherently despise Muslims, only
their leadership (political and religious), and yes, I don't want them
in my country. Save for that, I agree with everything you wrote.

On Fri, 20 Oct 2023 08:51:41 +0000 (UTC)
Loose Cannon <efbregg73@gmx-xx.comm> wrote:

> In article <20231019212046.000071c4@ntlworld.invalid>,
> The Happy Hippy <the.happy.hippy.nntp@ntlworld.invalid> wrote:
>
> > Israel are "baby murderers" as well,
>
> The sum total of your arguments:
>
> "The Nazis killed babies? So what, the British were baby murderers as
> well".

So were America.

But that wasn't my argument, it's just propagandising to say that it is, and it's definitely not the sum total of my argument.

You are the one trying to create false equivalency between this conflict and a global world war, are the one trying to excuse Israel's killing of innocent people, their murdering of babies, their war crimes, their evil.