There is some amazing footage on youtube of what the Ukrainians are
doing to the Russians - not just one clip but whole side bars of footage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBOR86jpLSQ

On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 12:00:27 +1100, Fran
<gettingmoredelusionalbythedayistheforger@nutcasewannabeFran.com>
wrote:

>There is some amazing footage on youtube of what the Ukrainians are
>doing to the Russians - not just one clip but whole side bars of footage:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBOR86jpLSQ

No matter what I can't support any fighting from any sides.
No matter what the outcome of this war is going to be it will be a
lose-lose for both sides in the conflict.

What is urgently needed is an instant stop to the fighting, killings
and destruction. Best option would be to send in UN peacekeepers after
a full cease fire.
Ukraine definitely needs International help for reconstruction but
parallel to that serious diplomatic efforts should be made to create a
fully neutral state based on the model of Switzerland creating
semi-independent regions for all ethnic areas in that country:
Russians, Poles, Hungarians and of course Ukrainians themselves.
And naturally it has to be democratic, i.e fuck off US, fuck off
Poland, fuck off Russia and fuck off NATO.

666

On 30/03/2022 12:43 pm, ** 55 - 65 ** wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2022 12:00:27 +1100, Fran
> <gettingmoredelusionalbythedayistheforger@nutcasewannabeFran.com>
> wrote:
>
>> There is some amazing footage on youtube of what the Ukrainians are
>> doing to the Russians - not just one clip but whole side bars of footage:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBOR86jpLSQ
>
> No matter what I can't support any fighting from any sides.
> No matter what the outcome of this war is going to be it will be a
> lose-lose for both sides in the conflict.

Absolutely! BUT I see no reason for the Ukrainians to roll over and let
the Russians invade unscathed. Given that, I'll cheer at every
Ukrainian counter to the invaders even though that means the loss of
life for any of the young troops. Those poor sods are paying for the
sins of bloody Putin and his cronies.
>
> What is urgently needed is an instant stop to the fighting, killings
> and destruction. Best option would be to send in UN peacekeepers after
> a full cease fire.

Not gunna happen any time soon. Sadly.

> Ukraine definitely needs International help for reconstruction but
> parallel to that serious diplomatic efforts should be made to create a
> fully neutral state based on the model of Switzerland creating
> semi-independent regions for all ethnic areas in that country:
> Russians, Poles, Hungarians and of course Ukrainians themselves.
> And naturally it has to be democratic, i.e fuck off US, fuck off
> Poland, fuck off Russia and fuck off NATO.

But first all of those places need to give the Ukrainians aid and
assistance. I say that because it's only going to stop when the penny
finally drops with Putin. He's THE problem here. He will remain so
until he's either taken out or his country is so far onto its knees that
he feels his grip on power under real threat unless he withdraws.

** 55 - 65 ** <55-65@z666.service.biz> wrote
> Fran <gettingmoredelusionalbythedayistheforger@nutcasewannabeFran.com>
> wrote:

>> There is some amazing footage on youtube of what the Ukrainians are
>> doing to the Russians - not just one clip but whole side bars of
>> footage:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBOR86jpLSQ
>
> No matter what I can't support any fighting from any sides.
> No matter what the outcome of this war is going to be it will be a
> lose-lose for both sides in the conflict.

Dunno, I bet russia ends up with a land bridge for
the Crimea and maybe even the port of Odessa too.

Putin couldn't care less how many end up dead in the process.

> What is urgently needed is an instant stop to the fighting, killings
> and destruction.

Easier said than done.

> Best option would be to send in UN peacekeepers after
> a full cease fire.

There isn't going to be a full cease fire any time soon imo.

It took a decade with Afghanistan and the Ukraine is about the
same size and same population and far less important to Russia.

> Ukraine definitely needs International help for reconstruction but
> parallel to that serious diplomatic efforts should be made to create a
> fully neutral state based on the model of Switzerland creating
> semi-independent regions for all ethnic areas in that country:
> Russians, Poles, Hungarians and of course Ukrainians themselves.

Not going to happen, you watch. And why should the ex russian army people
who got free housing in the Ukraine get a damned thing there anyway ?

> And naturally it has to be democratic, i.e fuck off US, fuck off
> Poland, fuck off Russia and fuck off NATO.

It was before Russia invaded.

Fran:

> ** 55 - 65 **
>> Fran
>>
>>> There is some amazing footage on youtube of what the Ukrainians are
>>> doing to the Russians - not just one clip but whole side bars of
>>> footage:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBOR86jpLSQ
>>
>> No matter what I can't support any fighting from any sides.
>> No matter what the outcome of this war is going to be it will be a
>> lose-lose for both sides in the conflict.
>
> Absolutely! BUT I see no reason for the Ukrainians to roll over and let
> the Russians invade unscathed. Given that, I'll cheer at every
> Ukrainian counter to the invaders even though that means the loss of
> life for any of the young troops. Those poor sods are paying for the
> sins of bloody Putin and his cronies.
>>
>> What is urgently needed is an instant stop to the fighting, killings
>> and destruction. Best option would be to send in UN peacekeepers after
>> a full cease fire.
>
> Not gunna happen any time soon. Sadly.
>
>> Ukraine definitely needs International help for reconstruction but
>> parallel to that serious diplomatic efforts should be made to create a
>> fully neutral state based on the model of Switzerland creating
>> semi-independent regions for all ethnic areas in that country:
>> Russians, Poles, Hungarians and of course Ukrainians themselves.
>> And naturally it has to be democratic, i.e fuck off US, fuck off
>> Poland, fuck off Russia and fuck off NATO.
>
> But first all of those places need to give the Ukrainians aid and
> assistance. I say that because it's only going to stop when the penny
> finally drops with Putin. He's THE problem here. He will remain so
> until he's either taken out or his country is so far onto its knees that
> he feels his grip on power under real threat unless he withdraws

I'd prefer the EU and the EU alone helping out with the reconstruction of
Ukraine.
If Hungary was not such an authoritarian shithole it could withdraw from
Nato and form a central demilitarised axis across Central Europe reaching
from Switzerland to Ukrain across Austria and Hungary.
As backward in many respects the Austro-Hungarian Double-monarhy was, it
represented a Central European powerblock that was stabilising the balance
of power across Europe. Of course, I being no monarchist but instead as a
communist I don't shed tears about its demise. But Central Europe needs
stabilising in a very democratic fashion, specially given the multi-ethnic
nature of the region and the existence of serious historical grudges
amongst them reaching back centuries in history.
I am not optimistic about any good outcome for Ukraine if the ethnic
animosities remain unresolved, if US powerpolitics and from the West
supported endemic corruption keeps on interfering with the running of the
Ukrainian governments as it has been the case right from the start after
its creation as an independent state at the collapse of the USSR.