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aus+uk / aus.politics / USA to blame

SubjectAuthor
* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
+* USA to blameRod Speed
|+* USA to blamePetzl
||+* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
|||+* USA to blamePetzl
||||`* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
|||| +* USA to blameRod Speed
|||| |`* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
|||| | `* USA to blameRod Speed
|||| |  `* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
|||| |   `* USA to blameRod Speed
|||| |    `* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
|||| |     `* USA to blameRod Speed
|||| |      `* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
|||| |       +* USA to blamePetzl
|||| |       |`* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
|||| |       | `* USA to blamePetzl
|||| |       |  `- USA to blameArindam Banerjee
|||| |       `* USA to blameRod Speed
|||| |        `* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
|||| |         `* USA to blameRod Speed
|||| |          +* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
|||| |          |`* USA to blameRod Speed
|||| |          | `* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
|||| |          |  +- USA to blamePetzl
|||| |          |  `* USA to blameRod Speed
|||| |          |   `* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
|||| |          |    `* USA to blameRod Speed
|||| |          |     `- USA to blameArindam Banerjee
|||| |          `- USA to blamePetzl
|||| `* USA to blameDaniel65
||||  `- USA to blame*Ördög*
|||+* USA to blameRod Speed
||||`* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
|||| `* USA to blameRod Speed
||||  `* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
||||   `* USA to blameRod Speed
||||    +* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
||||    |`* USA to blameRod Speed
||||    | `* USA to blamePetzl
||||    |  `* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
||||    |   +* USA to blameRod Speed
||||    |   |`* USA to blamePetzl
||||    |   | `* USA to blameRod Speed
||||    |   |  `* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
||||    |   |   `- USA to blameRod Speed
||||    |   `* USA to blamePetzl
||||    |    `* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
||||    |     `* USA to blamePetzl
||||    |      +- USA to blameRod Speed
||||    |      `* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
||||    |       +* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
||||    |       |`* USA to blamePetzl
||||    |       | `- USA to blameArindam Banerjee
||||    |       `* USA to blameRod Speed
||||    |        `* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
||||    |         `- USA to blameRod Speed
||||    `* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
||||     `* USA to blameRod Speed
||||      `* USA to blamePetzl
||||       `* USA to blame* Ördög * - - the Petz Buster -
||||        `* USA to blamePetzl
||||         `* USA to blame* Ördög * - - the Petz Buster -
||||          `* USA to blamePetzl
||||           `* USA to blame* Ördög * - - the Petz Buster -
||||            `* USA to blamePetzl
||||             +* USA to blameRod Speed
||||             |`* USA to blamePetzl
||||             | `* USA to blameRod Speed
||||             |  `* USA to blamePetzl
||||             |   `- USA to blameRod Speed
||||             `* USA to blame* Ördög * - - the Petz Buster -
||||              `* USA to blamePetzl
||||               +* USA to blameRod Speed
||||               |`* USA to blamePetzl
||||               | `* USA to blameRod Speed
||||               |  `* USA to blamePetzl
||||               |   `* USA to blameRod Speed
||||               |    `* USA to blamePetzl
||||               |     `- USA to blameRod Speed
||||               `* USA to blame* Ördög * - - the Petz Buster -
||||                `* USA to blamePetzl
||||                 `* USA to blame* Ördög * - - the Petz Buster -
||||                  `* USA to blamePetzl
||||                   +* USA to blame* Ördög * - - the Petz Buster -
||||                   |+- Corellacorella
||||                   |`- Qanon/sov-cit/anti-vax nutters waiting for Scomo as he went to see GGOzix
||||                   `- USA to blameRod Speed
|||`* USA to blameMattb
||| +* USA to blamePetzl
||| |`* USA to blameMattb
||| | `* USA to blamePetzl
||| |  `* USA to blameRod Speed
||| |   +* USA to blamePetzl
||| |   |`- USA to blameRod Speed
||| |   `* USA to blameMattb
||| |    `* USA to blameRod Speed
||| |     `* USA to blameMattb
||| |      `* USA to blameRod Speed
||| |       `* USA to blameMattb
||| |        `* USA to blameRod Speed
||| `* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
||`* USA to blameRod Speed
|`* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
+* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
+* USA to blameArindam Banerjee
`* USA to blameArindam Banerjee

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USA to blame

<5230cd96-ea30-4fa4-b85a-56e9c66108dan@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: USA to blame
From: banerjee...@gmail.com (Arindam Banerjee)
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 by: Arindam Banerjee - Wed, 6 Apr 2022 12:12 UTC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
Mersheimer sounds reasonable.

Re: USA to blame

<op.1j7yrqnsbyq249@pvr2.lan>

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.politics
Subject: Re: USA to blame
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2022 05:51:16 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Wed, 6 Apr 2022 19:51 UTC

Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> wrote

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
> Mersheimer sounds reasonable.

Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.

Nothing to do with NATO.

Re: USA to blame

<6ttr4h9cahb1emvt7e2vjg9ndpd5e0hhu9@4ax.com>

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From: pet...@gmail.com (Petzl)
Newsgroups: aus.politics
Subject: Re: USA to blame
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2022 06:37:32 +1000
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 by: Petzl - Wed, 6 Apr 2022 20:37 UTC

On Thu, 07 Apr 2022 05:51:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> wrote
>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
>> Mersheimer sounds reasonable.
>
>Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
>series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.
>
>Nothing to do with NATO.
>
Putin's claim was the invasion, he denied was going to happen, was
because the Ukraine was going to join NATO?

Two Russians sit on a park bench in Moscow and talk, suddenly one
says: "You know, President Putin says that the special military
operation in Ukraine is really a war between Russia and NATO.
Oh, how's it going?
"So far we have lost 15,800 soldiers killed, 6 Generals, 530 tanks,
1,597 armored vehicles, 1,033 soft vehicles, 280 howitzers, 82 salvage
pieces, 47 anti-aircraft systems, 108 aircraft, 124 helicopters and 50
drones," he said.
"Oh, wow! And NATO?"
"No, they haven't showed up yet."

This seems a probable account of the prelude, the attack happened
because of America's weak corrupt and un-elected "president".
China is also now flexing muscle, whereas under President Trump would
not of happened
<https://richardsonpost.com/worm/26039/the-us-is-culpable-in-todays-ukraine-crisis/?fbclid=IwAR037nMRm1t7fyf9KMZd-J_uojCKFSJFF8-xr3Tg4k8gvRQOi3KwKTQrC8I>
https://tinyurl.com/y8gvpvxv
--
Petzl
Barack Obama once warned not to underestimate
Joe Biden’s ‘ability to f**k things up’

Trump was never running against Biden.
He was running against voter fraud.
https://youtu.be/U4c5dYDD9xw
The Democrats’ First Bill of 2021 Is to Lock In
Fraudulent Election Maneuvers and Steal Elections in Perpetuity

The left loathes Trump so much it totally blinds them
to anything he says, even when what he says
could potentially save thousands of lives.

Amazing where in America a lifetime of corruption, gutless, lying, thieving,
fraud, cheating, Propagandist' and 'Bigot will take you in politics?
https://youtu.be/D1j0FS0Z6ho
Joe Biden's son, zero track record, for jobs in languages
he don't speak thrown out of navy for doing coke,
turned in a rental car with crack pipes in it,
hid from a process server for getting a girl pregnant
to avoid child support.
And now he's a high paid artist with no discernible talent.

Five days with dad on Chinese trip was paid US$1.5 billion dollars?
Corruption by proxy,a new corruption that is difficult to detect

Joe Biden had a little boy
his nose was white with snow
And everywhere Joe Biden went
his son was sure to go
He followed to Ukraine one day
and scored a lot of dough
This made Joe Biden worry so
he did a quid pro quo : Anon

Somewhere out there is a 2-year-old girl whose mother is a stripper,
her father is a crackhead and her grandpa is President of the United States
.. --Fact check THAT.

Re: USA to blame

<d57ed09e-a003-4746-ac99-fb9efe1989b6n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: USA to blame
From: banerjee...@gmail.com (Arindam Banerjee)
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 by: Arindam Banerjee - Wed, 6 Apr 2022 21:55 UTC

On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 05:51:22 UTC+10, Rod Speed wrote:
> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
> > Mersheimer sounds reasonable.
> Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
> series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.
>
> Nothing to do with NATO.

Everything to do with NATO, which is his point.
He supports Putin, and puts the blame of the invasion on USA.
Like it or not, that is what he says, following what the Russians say in their interviews.
Why NATO at all after the Cold War was over, is the larger question.
It cannot co-exist with UN.

Re: USA to blame

<5b5730f0-50c0-4968-b980-8f40f876003dn@googlegroups.com>

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Newsgroups: aus.politics
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<op.1j7yrqnsbyq249@pvr2.lan> <6ttr4h9cahb1emvt7e2vjg9ndpd5e0hhu9@4ax.com>
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Subject: Re: USA to blame
From: banerjee...@gmail.com (Arindam Banerjee)
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 by: Arindam Banerjee - Wed, 6 Apr 2022 22:09 UTC

On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 06:37:38 UTC+10, petzl wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Apr 2022 05:51:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
> >
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
> >> Mersheimer sounds reasonable.
> >
> >Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
> >series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.
> >
> >Nothing to do with NATO.
> >
> Putin's claim was the invasion, he denied was going to happen, was
> because the Ukraine was going to join NATO?

Yes, if you go through the video you will see that is exactly the case.
NATO was trying to get Georgia into its orbit, and that was stopped earlier by Putin.
Then Ukraine too. Trump armed them.

> Two Russians sit on a park bench in Moscow and talk, suddenly one
> says: "You know, President Putin says that the special military
> operation in Ukraine is really a war between Russia and NATO.

Pretty obvious, to any neutral observer; just that NATO is fighting to the last Ukrainian.

> Oh, how's it going?
> "So far we have lost 15,800 soldiers killed, 6 Generals, 530 tanks,
> 1,597 armored vehicles, 1,033 soft vehicles, 280 howitzers, 82 salvage
> pieces, 47 anti-aircraft systems, 108 aircraft, 124 helicopters and 50
> drones," he said.

If he quotes the Russian side he will say:
"Those figures are theirs.
We have also got Crimea, Donbass, got the canal water for Crimea, which was blocked, got the shoreline, destroyed their navy and air force, inflicted substantial damages to their infrastructure.
We will attain our political objectives.
Putin is our Lincoln."

> "Oh, wow! And NATO?"
> "No, they haven't showed up yet."

Not physically, true. NATO gives them arms, aid, information, threatens and sanctions Russia.
> This seems a probable account of the prelude, the attack happened
> because of America's weak corrupt and un-elected "president".

Too old for the job, yes, but a good representative of the modern US, that is no longer new and fresh.
Selfishness and greed, their Rand-Reagan legacy, made them old prematurely.

> China is also now flexing muscle, whereas under President Trump would
> not of happened

I agree. While Trump did arm Ukrainians, I doubt if he would have urged them on to this state. He would have reasoned with Putin and told him that Ukraine would remain neutral.
He might even have found a solution with Donbass, like redrawing borders, giving Crimea water, etc.
All this misery would not have happened if he had been in power.

> <https://richardsonpost.com/worm/26039/the-us-is-culpable-in-todays-ukraine-crisis/?fbclid=IwAR037nMRm1t7fyf9KMZd-J_uojCKFSJFF8-xr3Tg4k8gvRQOi3KwKTQrC8I>
> https://tinyurl.com/y8gvpvxv
> --
> Petzl
> Barack Obama once warned not to underestimate
> Joe Biden’s ‘ability to f**k things up’
>
> Trump was never running against Biden.
> He was running against voter fraud.
> https://youtu.be/U4c5dYDD9xw
> The Democrats’ First Bill of 2021 Is to Lock In
> Fraudulent Election Maneuvers and Steal Elections in Perpetuity
>
> The left loathes Trump so much it totally blinds them
> to anything he says, even when what he says
> could potentially save thousands of lives.
>
> Amazing where in America a lifetime of corruption, gutless, lying, thieving,
> fraud, cheating, Propagandist' and 'Bigot will take you in politics?
> https://youtu.be/D1j0FS0Z6ho
> Joe Biden's son, zero track record, for jobs in languages
> he don't speak thrown out of navy for doing coke,
> turned in a rental car with crack pipes in it,
> hid from a process server for getting a girl pregnant
> to avoid child support.
> And now he's a high paid artist with no discernible talent.
>
> Five days with dad on Chinese trip was paid US$1.5 billion dollars?
> Corruption by proxy,a new corruption that is difficult to detect
>
> Joe Biden had a little boy
> his nose was white with snow
> And everywhere Joe Biden went
> his son was sure to go
> He followed to Ukraine one day
> and scored a lot of dough
> This made Joe Biden worry so
> he did a quid pro quo : Anon
>
> Somewhere out there is a 2-year-old girl whose mother is a stripper,
> her father is a crackhead and her grandpa is President of the United States
> . --Fact check THAT.

Re: USA to blame

<op.1j748nh7byq249@pvr2.lan>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=11977&group=aus.politics#11977

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.politics
Subject: Re: USA to blame
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2022 08:11:01 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Wed, 6 Apr 2022 22:11 UTC

Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> wrote

>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
>>> Mersheimer sounds reasonable.

>> Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
>> series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.

>> Nothing to do with NATO.

> Putin's claim was the invasion, he denied was going tohappen, was
> because the Ukraine was going to join NATO?

Just because that liar claims something...

He also claimed that the russian troops invading Georgia
were peace keepers. Only a fool believes that.

He also lied about the badgeless russian
troops in the eastern ukraine since 2014.

The real reason for the invasion of the Ukraine is to have
a land bridge between the Crimea and the rest of Russia.

> Two Russians sit on a park bench in Moscow and talk, suddenly one
> says: "You know, President Putin says that the special military
> operation in Ukraine is really a war between Russia and NATO.
> Oh, how's it going?
> "So far we have lost 15,800 soldiers killed, 6 Generals, 530 tanks,
> 1,597 armored vehicles, 1,033 soft vehicles, 280 howitzers, 82 salvage
> pieces, 47 anti-aircraft systems, 108 aircraft, 124 helicopters and 50
> drones," he said.
> "Oh, wow! And NATO?"
> "No, they haven't showed up yet."

> This seems a probable account of the prelude, the attack happened
> because of America's weak corrupt and un-elected "president".

More bullshit. He has had russian troops in the eastern ukraine since 2014.

> China is also now flexing muscle,

It has been doing that for more than a decade now.

> whereas under President Trump would not of happened

More mindless bullshit with what it has been doing
for more than a decade in the south china sea.

> <https://richardsonpost.com/worm/26039/the-us-is-culpable-in-todays-ukraine-crisis/?fbclid=IwAR037nMRm1t7fyf9KMZd-J_uojCKFSJFF8-xr3Tg4k8gvRQOi3KwKTQrC8I>
> https://tinyurl.com/y8gvpvxv

Just because some fool claims something...

Re: USA to blame

<op.1j75rciebyq249@pvr2.lan>

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.politics
Subject: Re: USA to blame
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2022 08:22:14 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Wed, 6 Apr 2022 22:22 UTC

Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote

>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
>> > Mersheimer sounds reasonable.

>> Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
>> series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.

>> Nothing to do with NATO.

> Everything to do with NATO,

Bullshit has. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the series
of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.

> which is his point.

He doesn't have one.

> He supports Putin, and puts the blame of the invasion on USA.

And that is complete stupid.

> Like it or not, that is what he says,

Irrelevant to the FACT that he doesn't sound reasonable at all.

> following what the Russians say in their interviews.

Putin claimed that the russian invasion of Georgia was
a peace keeping force and only a fool believes that.

> Why NATO at all after the Cold War was over, is the larger question.

Because it is useful when stuff like Bosnia happens
and prevents Putin invading Poland, Hungary, Austria,
the baltic states, Germany etc.

> It cannot co-exist with UN.

It has done for more than half a century now.

Re: USA to blame

<334s4hlap7muefra2t00obn1urt72ef349@4ax.com>

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From: pet...@gmail.com (Petzl)
Newsgroups: aus.politics
Subject: Re: USA to blame
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2022 08:35:54 +1000
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 by: Petzl - Wed, 6 Apr 2022 22:35 UTC

On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:09:44 -0700 (PDT), Arindam Banerjee
<banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 06:37:38 UTC+10, petzl wrote:
>> On Thu, 07 Apr 2022 05:51:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
>> >
>> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
>> >> Mersheimer sounds reasonable.
>> >
>> >Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
>> >series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.
>> >
>> >Nothing to do with NATO.
>> >
>> Putin's claim was the invasion, he denied was going to happen, was
>> because the Ukraine was going to join NATO?
>
>Yes, if you go through the video you will see that is exactly the case.
>NATO was trying to get Georgia into its orbit, and that was stopped earlier by Putin.
>Then Ukraine too. Trump armed them.
>
NATO was not interested in paying Ukraine US$160 billion for a
presence there. The EU could only offer $828 million.
Russia offered Ukraine a $15 billion loan and to cut Russian natural
gas prices by almost a third. Yanukovych canceled negotiations with
the EU and accepted Putin’s offer.

Obama/Biden were then involved in a scheme to oust Ukrainian President
Yanukovych and replace his administration with Western allies.
Yushchenko was 'given Agent Orange ingredient' to poison him by US
operatives. This left him disfigured.

>> Two Russians sit on a park bench in Moscow and talk, suddenly one
>> says: "You know, President Putin says that the special military
>> operation in Ukraine is really a war between Russia and NATO.
>
>Pretty obvious, to any neutral observer; just that NATO is fighting to the last Ukrainian.
>
NATO is not involved, Ukraine weaponry is US/French/Australian/British
supplied, plus captured Russian arms.
Russia is buying American arms left by Biden from the Taliban to use
in Ukraine

>> Oh, how's it going?
>> "So far we have lost 15,800 soldiers killed, 6 Generals, 530 tanks,
>> 1,597 armored vehicles, 1,033 soft vehicles, 280 howitzers, 82 salvage
>> pieces, 47 anti-aircraft systems, 108 aircraft, 124 helicopters and 50
>> drones," he said.
>
>If he quotes the Russian side he will say:
>"Those figures are theirs.
>We have also got Crimea, Donbass, got the canal water for Crimea, which was blocked, got the shoreline, destroyed their navy and air force, inflicted substantial damages to their infrastructure.
>We will attain our political objectives.
>Putin is our Lincoln."
>
>> "Oh, wow! And NATO?"
>> "No, they haven't showed up yet."
>
>Not physically, true. NATO gives them arms, aid, information, threatens and sanctions Russia.
>
Actually NATO is not involved, too much of Europe need Russian Gas/Oil
>
>> This seems a probable account of the prelude, the attack happened
>> because of America's weak corrupt and un-elected "president".
>
>Too old for the job, yes, but a good representative of the modern US, that is no longer new and fresh.
>Selfishness and greed, their Rand-Reagan legacy, made them old prematurely.
>
America now has the same problem the Old USSR had too many bumbling
crooked geriatrics running the show.
When it fell Putin left his beloved Stasi team, then formed from his
KGB mates and steal the profitable industries creating a Putin team of
corrupt mega rich oligarch's.
<https://www.businessinsider.com/here-are-the-mega-yachts-belonging-to-russian-oligarchs-2022-3>
https://tinyurl.com/ycf7x8hj
>
>> China is also now flexing muscle, whereas under President Trump would
>> not of happened
>
>I agree. While Trump did arm Ukrainians, I doubt if he would have urged them on to this state. He would have reasoned with Putin and told him that Ukraine would remain neutral.
>He might even have found a solution with Donbass, like redrawing borders, giving Crimea water, etc.
>All this misery would not have happened if he had been in power.
>
>> <https://richardsonpost.com/worm/26039/the-us-is-culpable-in-todays-ukraine-crisis/?fbclid=IwAR037nMRm1t7fyf9KMZd-J_uojCKFSJFF8-xr3Tg4k8gvRQOi3KwKTQrC8I>
>> https://tinyurl.com/y8gvpvxv
>> --
--
Petzl
Socialism is a philosophy of failure,
the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy,
Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Re: USA to blame

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From: pet...@gmail.com (Petzl)
Newsgroups: aus.politics
Subject: Re: USA to blame
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2022 08:42:13 +1000
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 by: Petzl - Wed, 6 Apr 2022 22:42 UTC

On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 14:55:23 -0700 (PDT), Arindam Banerjee
<banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 05:51:22 UTC+10, Rod Speed wrote:
>> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
>> > Mersheimer sounds reasonable.
>> Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
>> series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.
>>
>> Nothing to do with NATO.
>
>Everything to do with NATO, which is his point.
>He supports Putin, and puts the blame of the invasion on USA.
>Like it or not, that is what he says, following what the Russians say in their interviews.
>Why NATO at all after the Cold War was over, is the larger question.
>It cannot co-exist with UN.
>
The UN is run and controlled by members that are guilty of war crimes
40% (China one) of them do not recognize human rights. So unlikely to
kick Russia out based on human rights.
--
Petzl
"Our" Media and Major parties are run by lobbyists

Lobbyists write the laws, parliament sells the laws,
paid lucrative commissions for passing their laws.
That’s the modern legislative business of parliament.

When we talk about paying-off politicians in third-world
countries we call it bribery.
However, when we undertake the same process in parliament.
we call it lobbying.

Re: USA to blame

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From: pet...@gmail.com (Petzl)
Newsgroups: aus.politics
Subject: Re: USA to blame
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2022 08:54:16 +1000
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 by: Petzl - Wed, 6 Apr 2022 22:54 UTC

On Thu, 07 Apr 2022 08:11:01 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
>>>> Mersheimer sounds reasonable.
>
>>> Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
>>> series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.
>
>>> Nothing to do with NATO.
>
>> Putin's claim was the invasion, he denied was going tohappen, was
>> because the Ukraine was going to join NATO?
>
>Just because that liar claims something...
>
>He also claimed that the russian troops invading Georgia
>were peace keepers. Only a fool believes that.
>
>He also lied about the badgeless russian
>troops in the eastern ukraine since 2014.
>
>The real reason for the invasion of the Ukraine is to have
>a land bridge between the Crimea and the rest of Russia.
>
Totally agree
Putin is just a tyrannical lying POS like unelected Joe Biden
>
>> Two Russians sit on a park bench in Moscow and talk, suddenly one
>> says: "You know, President Putin says that the special military
>> operation in Ukraine is really a war between Russia and NATO.
>> Oh, how's it going?
>> "So far we have lost 15,800 soldiers killed, 6 Generals, 530 tanks,
>> 1,597 armored vehicles, 1,033 soft vehicles, 280 howitzers, 82 salvage
>> pieces, 47 anti-aircraft systems, 108 aircraft, 124 helicopters and 50
>> drones," he said.
>> "Oh, wow! And NATO?"
>> "No, they haven't showed up yet."
>
>> This seems a probable account of the prelude, the attack happened
>> because of America's weak corrupt and un-elected "president".
>
>More bullshit. He has had russian troops in the eastern ukraine since 2014.
>
>> China is also now flexing muscle,
>
>It has been doing that for more than a decade now.
>
>> whereas under President Trump would not of happened
>
>More mindless bullshit with what it has been doing
>for more than a decade in the south china sea.
>
>> <https://richardsonpost.com/worm/26039/the-us-is-culpable-in-todays-ukraine-crisis/?fbclid=IwAR037nMRm1t7fyf9KMZd-J_uojCKFSJFF8-xr3Tg4k8gvRQOi3KwKTQrC8I>
>> https://tinyurl.com/y8gvpvxv
>
>Just because some fool claims something...
>
Maybe
--
Petzl
What is the harm of for the Democrats validating the voting system.
Is it because the Democrats have something to hide?

Amazing to think that Lyndon Johnson perfected the
'sit-wait-see how many we need to win-then dump our
stuffed ballots at the last moment' electoral technique
in post-war Texas, and nothing has changed in US elections
in the 7 decades since.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_United_States_Senate_election_in_Texas#Legal_battle>
The Left is fine with Vaccine Cards
but NOT voter IDs. Paying attention yet?

Re: USA to blame

<op.1j77btwbbyq249@pvr2.lan>

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.politics
Subject: Re: USA to blame
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2022 08:56:07 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Wed, 6 Apr 2022 22:56 UTC

Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> wrote
> petzl wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
>> >
>> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
>> >> Mersheimer sounds reasonable.
>> >
>> >Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
>> >series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.
>> >
>> >Nothing to do with NATO.
>> >
>> Putin's claim was the invasion, he denied was going to happen, was
>> because the Ukraine was going to join NATO?
>
> Yes, if you go through the video you will see that is exactly the case.
> NATO was trying to get Georgia into its orbit, and that was stopped
> earlier by Putin.
> Then Ukraine too.

Pity about Chechnya and the Crimea.

> Trump armed them.

Bullshit he did with Georgia.

>> Two Russians sit on a park bench in Moscow and talk, suddenly one
>> says: "You know, President Putin says that the special military
>> operation in Ukraine is really a war between Russia and NATO.

> Pretty obvious, to any neutral observer; just that NATO is fighting to
> the last Ukrainian.

Even sillier.

>> Oh, how's it going?
>> "So far we have lost 15,800 soldiers killed, 6 Generals, 530 tanks,
>> 1,597 armored vehicles, 1,033 soft vehicles, 280 howitzers, 82 salvage
>> pieces, 47 anti-aircraft systems, 108 aircraft, 124 helicopters and 50
>> drones," he said.
>
> If he quotes the Russian side he will say:
> "Those figures are theirs.
> We have also got Crimea, Donbass, got the canal water for Crimea, which
> was blocked, got the shoreline, destroyed their navy and air force,
> inflicted substantial damages to their infrastructure.
> We will attain our political objectives.
> Putin is our Lincoln."
>
>> "Oh, wow! And NATO?"
>> "No, they haven't showed up yet."
>
> Not physically, true. NATO gives them arms, aid, information, threatens
> and sanctions Russia.

Nope, individual countrys do that, not NATO.

>> This seems a probable account of the prelude, the attack happened
>> because of America's weak corrupt and un-elected "president".

> Too old for the job, yes, but a good representativeof the modern US,
> that is no longer new and fresh.

Just watched Hertzog's interview with Gorby, I had forgotten
how decrepit the top dog had got in Russia before Gorby.

> Selfishness and greed, their Rand-Reaganlegacy, made them old
> prematurely.

Pity about the russians.

>> China is also now flexing muscle, whereas underPresident Trump would
>> not of happened

> I agree. While Trump did arm Ukrainians, I doubtif he would have urged
> them on to this state.

Biden didn't.

> He would have reasoned with Putin and told him that Ukraine would remain
> neutral.

How odd that he actually praised Putin when
Putin recognised the two eastern provinces
of the Ukraine declared independence.

> He might even have found a solution with Donbass,

How odd that he didn't while he was president.

> like redrawing borders,

No US president gets to do that there.

> giving Crimea water, etc.

Or that either.

> All this misery would not have happened if he had been in power.

BULLSHIT.

>> <https://richardsonpost.com/worm/26039/the-us-is-culpable-in-todays-ukraine-crisis/?fbclid=IwAR037nMRm1t7fyf9KMZd-J_uojCKFSJFF8-xr3Tg4k8gvRQOi3KwKTQrC8I>
>> https://tinyurl.com/y8gvpvxv

Re: USA to blame

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 by: Arindam Banerjee - Wed, 6 Apr 2022 23:02 UTC

On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 08:35:59 UTC+10, petzl wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:09:44 -0700 (PDT), Arindam Banerjee
> <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 06:37:38 UTC+10, petzl wrote:
> >> On Thu, 07 Apr 2022 05:51:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> >> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
> >> >
> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
> >> >> Mersheimer sounds reasonable.
> >> >
> >> >Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
> >> >series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.
> >> >
> >> >Nothing to do with NATO.
> >> >
> >> Putin's claim was the invasion, he denied was going to happen, was
> >> because the Ukraine was going to join NATO?
> >
> >Yes, if you go through the video you will see that is exactly the case.
> >NATO was trying to get Georgia into its orbit, and that was stopped earlier by Putin.
> >Then Ukraine too. Trump armed them.
> >
> NATO was not interested in paying Ukraine US$160 billion for a
> presence there. The EU could only offer $828 million.
> Russia offered Ukraine a $15 billion loan and to cut Russian natural
> gas prices by almost a third. Yanukovych canceled negotiations with
> the EU and accepted Putin’s offer.
>
> Obama/Biden were then involved in a scheme to oust Ukrainian President
> Yanukovych and replace his administration with Western allies.
> Yushchenko was 'given Agent Orange ingredient' to poison him by US
> operatives. This left him disfigured.
> >> Two Russians sit on a park bench in Moscow and talk, suddenly one
> >> says: "You know, President Putin says that the special military
> >> operation in Ukraine is really a war between Russia and NATO.
> >
> >Pretty obvious, to any neutral observer; just that NATO is fighting to the last Ukrainian.
> >
> NATO is not involved, Ukraine weaponry is US/French/Australian/British
All NATO.
> supplied, plus captured Russian arms.
> Russia is buying American arms left by Biden from the Taliban to use
> in Ukraine
> >> Oh, how's it going?
> >> "So far we have lost 15,800 soldiers killed, 6 Generals, 530 tanks,
> >> 1,597 armored vehicles, 1,033 soft vehicles, 280 howitzers, 82 salvage
> >> pieces, 47 anti-aircraft systems, 108 aircraft, 124 helicopters and 50
> >> drones," he said.
> >
> >If he quotes the Russian side he will say:
> >"Those figures are theirs.
> >We have also got Crimea, Donbass, got the canal water for Crimea, which was blocked, got the shoreline, destroyed their navy and air force, inflicted substantial damages to their infrastructure.
> >We will attain our political objectives.
> >Putin is our Lincoln."
> >
> >> "Oh, wow! And NATO?"
> >> "No, they haven't showed up yet."
> >
> >Not physically, true. NATO gives them arms, aid, information, threatens and sanctions Russia.
> >
> Actually NATO is not involved, too much of Europe need Russian Gas/Oil

The NATO leader is only a figurehead.
NATO is mostly US leadership with UK as a strong follower.
Biden runs NATO.
Europe needs Russian fossil fuel, true, and they will get nuked if they invade, so they are not as jumpy as US/UK.
> >> This seems a probable account of the prelude, the attack happened
> >> because of America's weak corrupt and un-elected "president".
> >
> >Too old for the job, yes, but a good representative of the modern US, that is no longer new and fresh.
> >Selfishness and greed, their Rand-Reagan legacy, made them old prematurely.
> >
> America now has the same problem the Old USSR had too many bumbling
> crooked geriatrics running the show.
> When it fell Putin left his beloved Stasi team, then formed from his
> KGB mates and steal the profitable industries creating a Putin team of
> corrupt mega rich oligarch's.

If you say so.

> <https://www.businessinsider.com/here-are-the-mega-yachts-belonging-to-russian-oligarchs-2022-3>
> https://tinyurl.com/ycf7x8hj

My information is that the mega yacht owning oligarchs belong to the sellout Yeltsin era that broke Russia, which Putin fixed.
The media was jumping up and down about freezing Putin's vast wealth, stashed abroad.
Did they find a kopek or cent?
When I was in Moscow, staying at the best hotel there, I found they were using second hand Mercedes cars renovated in Lithuania.
And yes, we could afford to stay there.
Unlike in US, where there is no chance of staying in similar luxury.
The best Russians are spiritual, not materialistic. If they are very rich they evidently do not flaunt their wealth as Americans do.
Marxism was an aberration, and a curse to them.
As we know, Stalinists who were less atheistic won over the totally atheistic Trotskyites.

> >
> >> China is also now flexing muscle, whereas under President Trump would
> >> not of happened
> >
> >I agree. While Trump did arm Ukrainians, I doubt if he would have urged them on to this state. He would have reasoned with Putin and told him that Ukraine would remain neutral.
> >He might even have found a solution with Donbass, like redrawing borders, giving Crimea water, etc.
> >All this misery would not have happened if he had been in power.
> >
> >> <https://richardsonpost.com/worm/26039/the-us-is-culpable-in-todays-ukraine-crisis/?fbclid=IwAR037nMRm1t7fyf9KMZd-J_uojCKFSJFF8-xr3Tg4k8gvRQOi3KwKTQrC8I>
> >> https://tinyurl.com/y8gvpvxv
> >> --
> --
> Petzl
> Socialism is a philosophy of failure,
> the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy,
> Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Re: USA to blame

<op.1j8arbugbyq249@pvr2.lan>

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.politics
Subject: Re: USA to blame
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2022 10:10:13 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Thu, 7 Apr 2022 00:10 UTC

On Thu, 07 Apr 2022 08:42:13 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 14:55:23 -0700 (PDT), Arindam Banerjee
> <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 05:51:22 UTC+10, Rod Speed wrote:
>>> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
>>> > Mersheimer sounds reasonable.
>>> Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
>>> series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.
>>>
>>> Nothing to do with NATO.
>>
>> Everything to do with NATO, which is his point.
>> He supports Putin, and puts the blame of the invasion on USA.
>> Like it or not, that is what he says, following what the Russians say
>> in their interviews.
>> Why NATO at all after the Cold War was over, is the larger question.
>> It cannot co-exist with UN.
>>
> The UN is run and controlled by members that are guilty of war crimes
> 40% (China one) of them do not recognize human rights. So unlikely to
> kick Russia out based on human rights.

And since Russia has a veto, it isn't even possible to do that.

Re: USA to blame

<op.1j8a5x0ibyq249@pvr2.lan>

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.politics
Subject: Re: USA to blame
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2022 10:18:59 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Thu, 7 Apr 2022 00:18 UTC

Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
>>>>> Mersheimer sounds reasonable.

>>>> Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
>>>> series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.

>>>> Nothing to do with NATO.

>>> Putin's claim was the invasion, he denied was going to happen, was
>>> because the Ukraine was going to join NATO?

>> Just because that liar claims something...

>> He also claimed that the russian troops invading Georgia
>> were peace keepers. Only a fool believes that.

>> He also lied about the badgeless russian
>> troops in the eastern ukraine since 2014.

>> The real reason for the invasion of the Ukraine is to have
>> a land bridge between the Crimea and the rest of Russia.

> Totally agree
> Putin is just a tyrannical lying POS

And a psychopath who has his enemys murdered.

> like unelected Joe Biden

Nothing like in fact.

>>> Two Russians sit on a park bench in Moscow and talk, suddenly one
>>> says: "You know, President Putin says that the special military
>>> operation in Ukraine is really a war between Russia and NATO.
>>> Oh, how's it going?
>>> "So far we have lost 15,800 soldiers killed, 6 Generals, 530 tanks,
>>> 1,597 armored vehicles, 1,033 soft vehicles, 280 howitzers, 82 salvage
>>> pieces, 47 anti-aircraft systems, 108 aircraft, 124 helicopters and 50
>>> drones," he said.
>>> "Oh, wow! And NATO?"
>>> "No, they haven't showed up yet."

>>> This seems a probable account of the prelude, the attack happened
>>> because of America's weak corrupt and un-elected "president".

>> More bullshit. He has had russian troops in the eastern ukraine since
>> 2014.

>>> China is also now flexing muscle,

>> It has been doing that for more than a decade now.

>>> whereas under President Trump would not of happened

>> More mindless bullshit with what it has been doing
>> for more than a decade in the south china sea.

>>> <https://richardsonpost.com/worm/26039/the-us-is-culpable-in-todays-ukraine-crisis/?fbclid=IwAR037nMRm1t7fyf9KMZd-J_uojCKFSJFF8-xr3Tg4k8gvRQOi3KwKTQrC8I>
>>> https://tinyurl.com/y8gvpvxv

>> Just because some fool claims something...

> Maybe

No maybe about it.

Re: USA to blame

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.politics
Subject: Re: USA to blame
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2022 10:24:12 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Thu, 7 Apr 2022 00:24 UTC

Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> wrote

> On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 08:35:59 UTC+10, petzl wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:09:44 -0700 (PDT), Arindam Banerjee
>> <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 06:37:38 UTC+10, petzl wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 07 Apr 2022 05:51:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>> >> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
>> >> >
>> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
>> >> >> Mersheimer sounds reasonable.
>> >> >
>> >> >Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
>> >> >series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.
>> >> >
>> >> >Nothing to do with NATO.
>> >> >
>> >> Putin's claim was the invasion, he denied was going to happen, was
>> >> because the Ukraine was going to join NATO?
>> >
>> >Yes, if you go through the video you will see that is exactly the case.
>> >NATO was trying to get Georgia into its orbit, and that was stopped
>> earlier by Putin.
>> >Then Ukraine too. Trump armed them.
>> >
>> NATO was not interested in paying Ukraine US$160 billion for a
>> presence there. The EU could only offer $828 million.
>> Russia offered Ukraine a $15 billion loan and to cut Russian natural
>> gas prices by almost a third. Yanukovych canceled negotiations with
>> the EU and accepted Putin’s offer.
>>
>> Obama/Biden were then involved in a scheme to oust Ukrainian President
>> Yanukovych and replace his administration with Western allies.
>> Yushchenko was 'given Agent Orange ingredient' to poison him by US
>> operatives. This left him disfigured.
>> >> Two Russians sit on a park bench in Moscow and talk, suddenly one
>> >> says: "You know, President Putin says that the special military
>> >> operation in Ukraine is really a war between Russia and NATO.
>> >
>> >Pretty obvious, to any neutral observer; just that NATO is fighting to
>> the last Ukrainian.
>> >
>> NATO is not involved, Ukraine weaponry is US/French/Australian/British
> All NATO.
>> supplied, plus captured Russian arms.
>> Russia is buying American arms left by Biden from the Taliban to use
>> in Ukraine
>> >> Oh, how's it going?
>> >> "So far we have lost 15,800 soldiers killed, 6 Generals, 530 tanks,
>> >> 1,597 armored vehicles, 1,033 soft vehicles, 280 howitzers, 82
>> salvage
>> >> pieces, 47 anti-aircraft systems, 108 aircraft, 124 helicopters and
>> 50
>> >> drones," he said.
>> >
>> >If he quotes the Russian side he will say:
>> >"Those figures are theirs.
>> >We have also got Crimea, Donbass, got the canal water for Crimea,
>> which was blocked, got the shoreline, destroyed their navy and air
>> force, inflicted substantial damages to their infrastructure.
>> >We will attain our political objectives.
>> >Putin is our Lincoln."
>> >
>> >> "Oh, wow! And NATO?"
>> >> "No, they haven't showed up yet."
>> >
>> >Not physically, true. NATO gives them arms, aid, information,
>> threatens and sanctions Russia.
>> >
>> Actually NATO is not involved, too much of Europe need Russian Gas/Oil
>
> The NATO leader is only a figurehead.
> NATO is mostly US leadership with UK as a strong follower.
> Biden runs NATO.
> Europe needs Russian fossil fuel, true, and they will get nuked if they
> invade, so they are not as jumpy as US/UK.
>
>> >> This seems a probable account of the prelude, the attack happened
>> >> because of America's weak corrupt and un-elected "president".
>> >
>> >Too old for the job, yes, but a good representative of the modern US,
>> that is no longer new and fresh.
>> >Selfishness and greed, their Rand-Reagan legacy, made them old
>> prematurely.
>> >
>> America now has the same problem the Old USSR had too many bumbling
>> crooked geriatrics running the show.
>> When it fell Putin left his beloved Stasi team, then formed from his
>> KGB mates and steal the profitable industries creating a Putin team of
>> corrupt mega rich oligarch's.
>
> If you say so.
>
>> <https://www.businessinsider.com/here-are-the-mega-yachts-belonging-to-russian-oligarchs-2022-3>
>> https://tinyurl.com/ycf7x8hj
>
> My information is that the mega yacht owning oligarchs belong to the
> sellout Yeltsin era that broke Russia, which Putin fixed.
> The media was jumping up and down about freezing Putin's vast wealth,
> stashed abroad.
> Did they find a kopek or cent?

Yep, and his yacht.

> When I was in Moscow, staying at the best hotel there, I found they were
> using second hand Mercedes cars renovated in Lithuania.
> And yes, we could afford to stay there.
> Unlike in US, where there is no chance of staying in similar luxury.
> The best Russians are spiritual, not materialistic.

> If they are very rich they evidently do not flaunt their wealth as
> Americans do.

Pity about those super yachts, some of which
are worth the best part of a billion bucks.

> Marxism was an aberration, and a curse to them.
> As we know, Stalinists who were less atheistic

None of them were that.

> won over the totally atheistic Trotskyites.

>> >> China is also now flexing muscle, whereas under President Trump would
>> >> not of happened
>> >
>> >I agree. While Trump did arm Ukrainians, I doubt if he would have
>> urged them on to this state. He would have reasoned with Putin and told
>> him that Ukraine would remain neutral.
>> >He might even have found a solution with Donbass, like redrawing
>> borders, giving Crimea water, etc.
>> >All this misery would not have happened if he had been in power.
>> >
>> >>
>> <https://richardsonpost.com/worm/26039/the-us-is-culpable-in-todays-ukraine-crisis/?fbclid=IwAR037nMRm1t7fyf9KMZd-J_uojCKFSJFF8-xr3Tg4k8gvRQOi3KwKTQrC8I>
>> >> https://tinyurl.com/y8gvpvxv

Re: USA to blame

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 by: Arindam Banerjee - Thu, 7 Apr 2022 00:46 UTC

On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 08:56:15 UTC+10, Rod Speed wrote:
> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
> > petzl wrote
> >> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
> >>> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
> >> >
> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
> >> >> Mersheimer sounds reasonable.
> >> >
> >> >Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
> >> >series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.
> >> >
> >> >Nothing to do with NATO.
> >> >
> >> Putin's claim was the invasion, he denied was going to happen, was
> >> because the Ukraine was going to join NATO?
> >
> > Yes, if you go through the video you will see that is exactly the case.
> > NATO was trying to get Georgia into its orbit, and that was stopped
> > earlier by Putin.
> > Then Ukraine too.
> Pity about Chechnya and the Crimea.

A President has to do his job.
Crush rebels and rescue his kinfolk.
Putin did it.
>
> > Trump armed them.
>
> Bullshit he did with Georgia.

Irrelevant.

> >> Two Russians sit on a park bench in Moscow and talk, suddenly one
> >> says: "You know, President Putin says that the special military
> >> operation in Ukraine is really a war between Russia and NATO.
>
> > Pretty obvious, to any neutral observer; just that NATO is fighting to
> > the last Ukrainian.
> Even sillier.
No, just clever and cruel to make no-hopers fight, lose, die at no cost to yourself and huge profit for the military-industrial complex which will trickle down to the NATO elites.
Pure evil, really.
> >> Oh, how's it going?
> >> "So far we have lost 15,800 soldiers killed, 6 Generals, 530 tanks,
> >> 1,597 armored vehicles, 1,033 soft vehicles, 280 howitzers, 82 salvage
> >> pieces, 47 anti-aircraft systems, 108 aircraft, 124 helicopters and 50
> >> drones," he said.
> >
> > If he quotes the Russian side he will say:
> > "Those figures are theirs.
> > We have also got Crimea, Donbass, got the canal water for Crimea, which
> > was blocked, got the shoreline, destroyed their navy and air force,
> > inflicted substantial damages to their infrastructure.
> > We will attain our political objectives.
> > Putin is our Lincoln."
> >
> >> "Oh, wow! And NATO?"
> >> "No, they haven't showed up yet."
> >
> > Not physically, true. NATO gives them arms, aid, information, threatens
> > and sanctions Russia.
> Nope, individual countrys do that, not NATO.
NATO is their alliance.
NATO leadership is their puppet.
> >> This seems a probable account of the prelude, the attack happened
> >> because of America's weak corrupt and un-elected "president".
> > Too old for the job, yes, but a good representativeof the modern US,
> > that is no longer new and fresh.
> Just watched Hertzog's interview with Gorby, I had forgotten
> how decrepit the top dog had got in Russia before Gorby.
>
> > Selfishness and greed, their Rand-Reaganlegacy, made them old
> > prematurely.
>
> Pity about the russians.

They are doing well, as I saw in Russia.
Russia is just huge. The hope of humanity, that is Russia. They have incredible resources.
The hurt from Western sanctions won't bother them much.

>
> >> China is also now flexing muscle, whereas underPresident Trump would
> >> not of happened
>
> > I agree. While Trump did arm Ukrainians, I doubtif he would have urged
> > them on to this state.
> Biden didn't.
He did encourage Zelensky.
> > He would have reasoned with Putin and told him that Ukraine would remain
> > neutral.
> How odd that he actually praised Putin when
> Putin recognised the two eastern provinces
> of the Ukraine declared independence.

Nothing odd about that. Trump is wiser than Biden.
Self-determination of a nation is an international right.
It does not always happen, true, as in Tibet, Kashmir, etc.
But when that nation has powerful friends like Russia near, that does happen as happened in Crimea and Georgia.
Trump is clever enough to realize this.

> > He might even have found a solution with Donbass,
> How odd that he didn't while he was president.
At least he kept Russia from invading Ukraine.
Donbass had to do with Ukraine's hostility.
I suppose Trump thought it would be a good idea to make Russia bleed, keep them down that way.
>
> > like redrawing borders,
>
> No US president gets to do that there.

They could influence in a positive manner, help stop the civil war there instead of pouring petrol on it.
Possibility of Trump trying a positive manner would be much greater.
His kill count of foreign folk is very low.
My FB reports say that the foreign policies of Clinton, Obama and the Bushes have killed 11 million foreign folk, and devastated many countries.
Trump was an improvement.
>
> > giving Crimea water, etc.
>
> Or that either.

It would follow from above wisdom.

> > All this misery would not have happened if he had been in power.
> BULLSHIT.

Nope. Trump would have shown a lot more sense.
He would have doused the fire as opposed to making it far worse.
>
> >> <https://richardsonpost.com/worm/26039/the-us-is-culpable-in-todays-ukraine-crisis/?fbclid=IwAR037nMRm1t7fyf9KMZd-J_uojCKFSJFF8-xr3Tg4k8gvRQOi3KwKTQrC8I>
> >> https://tinyurl.com/y8gvpvxv

Re: USA to blame

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Subject: Re: USA to blame
From: banerjee...@gmail.com (Arindam Banerjee)
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 by: Arindam Banerjee - Thu, 7 Apr 2022 01:02 UTC

On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 10:24:18 UTC+10, Rod Speed wrote:
> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> > On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 08:35:59 UTC+10, petzl wrote:
> >> On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:09:44 -0700 (PDT), Arindam Banerjee
> >> <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 06:37:38 UTC+10, petzl wrote:
> >> >> On Thu, 07 Apr 2022 05:51:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> >> >> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
> >> >> >> Mersheimer sounds reasonable.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
> >> >> >series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Nothing to do with NATO.
> >> >> >
> >> >> Putin's claim was the invasion, he denied was going to happen, was
> >> >> because the Ukraine was going to join NATO?
> >> >
> >> >Yes, if you go through the video you will see that is exactly the case.
> >> >NATO was trying to get Georgia into its orbit, and that was stopped
> >> earlier by Putin.
> >> >Then Ukraine too. Trump armed them.
> >> >
> >> NATO was not interested in paying Ukraine US$160 billion for a
> >> presence there. The EU could only offer $828 million.
> >> Russia offered Ukraine a $15 billion loan and to cut Russian natural
> >> gas prices by almost a third. Yanukovych canceled negotiations with
> >> the EU and accepted Putin’s offer.
> >>
> >> Obama/Biden were then involved in a scheme to oust Ukrainian President
> >> Yanukovych and replace his administration with Western allies.
> >> Yushchenko was 'given Agent Orange ingredient' to poison him by US
> >> operatives. This left him disfigured.
> >> >> Two Russians sit on a park bench in Moscow and talk, suddenly one
> >> >> says: "You know, President Putin says that the special military
> >> >> operation in Ukraine is really a war between Russia and NATO.
> >> >
> >> >Pretty obvious, to any neutral observer; just that NATO is fighting to
> >> the last Ukrainian.
> >> >
> >> NATO is not involved, Ukraine weaponry is US/French/Australian/British
> > All NATO.
> >> supplied, plus captured Russian arms.
> >> Russia is buying American arms left by Biden from the Taliban to use
> >> in Ukraine
> >> >> Oh, how's it going?
> >> >> "So far we have lost 15,800 soldiers killed, 6 Generals, 530 tanks,
> >> >> 1,597 armored vehicles, 1,033 soft vehicles, 280 howitzers, 82
> >> salvage
> >> >> pieces, 47 anti-aircraft systems, 108 aircraft, 124 helicopters and
> >> 50
> >> >> drones," he said.
> >> >
> >> >If he quotes the Russian side he will say:
> >> >"Those figures are theirs.
> >> >We have also got Crimea, Donbass, got the canal water for Crimea,
> >> which was blocked, got the shoreline, destroyed their navy and air
> >> force, inflicted substantial damages to their infrastructure.
> >> >We will attain our political objectives.
> >> >Putin is our Lincoln."
> >> >
> >> >> "Oh, wow! And NATO?"
> >> >> "No, they haven't showed up yet."
> >> >
> >> >Not physically, true. NATO gives them arms, aid, information,
> >> threatens and sanctions Russia.
> >> >
> >> Actually NATO is not involved, too much of Europe need Russian Gas/Oil
> >
> > The NATO leader is only a figurehead.
> > NATO is mostly US leadership with UK as a strong follower.
> > Biden runs NATO.
> > Europe needs Russian fossil fuel, true, and they will get nuked if they
> > invade, so they are not as jumpy as US/UK.
> >
> >> >> This seems a probable account of the prelude, the attack happened
> >> >> because of America's weak corrupt and un-elected "president".
> >> >
> >> >Too old for the job, yes, but a good representative of the modern US,
> >> that is no longer new and fresh.
> >> >Selfishness and greed, their Rand-Reagan legacy, made them old
> >> prematurely.
> >> >
> >> America now has the same problem the Old USSR had too many bumbling
> >> crooked geriatrics running the show.
> >> When it fell Putin left his beloved Stasi team, then formed from his
> >> KGB mates and steal the profitable industries creating a Putin team of
> >> corrupt mega rich oligarch's.
> >
> > If you say so.
> >
> >> <https://www.businessinsider.com/here-are-the-mega-yachts-belonging-to-russian-oligarchs-2022-3>
> >> https://tinyurl.com/ycf7x8hj
> >
> > My information is that the mega yacht owning oligarchs belong to the
> > sellout Yeltsin era that broke Russia, which Putin fixed.
> > The media was jumping up and down about freezing Putin's vast wealth,
> > stashed abroad.
> > Did they find a kopek or cent?
> Yep, and his yacht.
No mention of that in the hostile-to-Putin media.
> > When I was in Moscow, staying at the best hotel there, I found they were
> > using second hand Mercedes cars renovated in Lithuania.
> > And yes, we could afford to stay there.
> > Unlike in US, where there is no chance of staying in similar luxury.
> > The best Russians are spiritual, not materialistic.
>
> > If they are very rich they evidently do not flaunt their wealth as
> > Americans do.
> Pity about those super yachts, some of which
> are worth the best part of a billion bucks.
Putin and his mates are not crying about them.
So they do not care about those yachts.
And why should they, if they did not own them.
> > Marxism was an aberration, and a curse to them.
> > As we know, Stalinists who were less atheistic
> None of them were that.
> > won over the totally atheistic Trotskyites.
>
> >> >> China is also now flexing muscle, whereas under President Trump would
> >> >> not of happened
> >> >
> >> >I agree. While Trump did arm Ukrainians, I doubt if he would have
> >> urged them on to this state. He would have reasoned with Putin and told
> >> him that Ukraine would remain neutral.
> >> >He might even have found a solution with Donbass, like redrawing
> >> borders, giving Crimea water, etc.
> >> >All this misery would not have happened if he had been in power.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> <https://richardsonpost.com/worm/26039/the-us-is-culpable-in-todays-ukraine-crisis/?fbclid=IwAR037nMRm1t7fyf9KMZd-J_uojCKFSJFF8-xr3Tg4k8gvRQOi3KwKTQrC8I>
> >> >> https://tinyurl.com/y8gvpvxv

Re: USA to blame

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Subject: Re: USA to blame
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 by: Rod Speed - Thu, 7 Apr 2022 02:06 UTC

Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> petzl wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote

>> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
>> >> >> Mersheimer sounds reasonable.
>> >> >
>> >> >Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
>> >> >series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.
>> >> >
>> >> >Nothing to do with NATO.
>> >> >
>> >> Putin's claim was the invasion, he denied was going to happen, was
>> >> because the Ukraine was going to join NATO?
>> >
>> > Yes, if you go through the video you will see that is exactly the
>> case.
>> > NATO was trying to get Georgia into its orbit, and that was stopped
>> > earlier by Putin.
>> > Then Ukraine too.

>> Pity about Chechnya and the Crimea.

> A President has to do his job.
> Crush rebels

Murdering those who he decides are his enemys is illegal, even in russhia.

> and rescue his kinfolk.

That isn't what happened in Georgia.

And isn't legal when his kinfolk have chosen to move
to an independent country like the Ukraine either.

> Putin did it.

Bullshit.

>> > Trump armed them.

>> Bullshit he did with Georgia.

> Irrelevant.

Nope.

>>>> Two Russians sit on a park bench in Moscow and talk, suddenly one
>>>> says: "You know, President Putin says that the special military
>>>> operation in Ukraine is really a war between Russia and NATO.

>>> Pretty obvious, to any neutral observer; just that NATO is fighting to
>>> the last Ukrainian.

>> Even sillier.

> No, just clever and cruel to make no-hopers fight,

No one is doing that with the Ukraine, let alone NATO.

> lose,

The Ukraine isn't going to lose, just like Afghanistan didn't.

The Ukraine and Afghanistan are both about the same
size and about the same population and the russians
have already had more killed in the Ukraine in just 4 weeks
than were killed in Afghanistan in the whole 10 years.

> die at no cost to yourself

That is also a lie given the NATO troops
which have been moved to Poland.

> and huge profit for the military-industrial complex

Another pig ignorant lie. Most of what has been
suppied to the Ukraine has in fact been given to them.

> which will trickle down to the NATO elites.

More mindless pig ignorant bullshit.

> Pure evil, really.

And what Putin has had done to the civilians in the Ukraine isn't ?

>> >> Oh, how's it going?
>> >> "So far we have lost 15,800 soldiers killed, 6 Generals, 530 tanks,
>> >> 1,597 armored vehicles, 1,033 soft vehicles, 280 howitzers, 82
>> salvage
>> >> pieces, 47 anti-aircraft systems, 108 aircraft, 124 helicopters and
>> 50
>> >> drones," he said.
>> >
>> > If he quotes the Russian side he will say:
>> > "Those figures are theirs.
>> > We have also got Crimea, Donbass, got the canal water for Crimea,
>> which
>> > was blocked, got the shoreline, destroyed their navy and air force,
>> > inflicted substantial damages to their infrastructure.
>> > We will attain our political objectives.
>> > Putin is our Lincoln."
>> >
>> >> "Oh, wow! And NATO?"
>> >> "No, they haven't showed up yet."
>> >
>> > Not physically, true. NATO gives them arms, aid, information,
>> threatens
>> > and sanctions Russia.

>> Nope, individual countrys do that, not NATO.

> NATO is their alliance.

But NATO has not given them any arms or imposed any sanctions.

> NATO leadership is their puppet.

Nope, just their leadership of NATO.

>> >> This seems a probable account of the prelude, the attack happened
>> >> because of America's weak corrupt and un-elected "president".
>> > Too old for the job, yes, but a good representativeof the modern US,
>> > that is no longer new and fresh.

>> Just watched Hertzog's interview with Gorby, I had forgotten
>> how decrepit the top dog had got in Russia before Gorby.

>>> Selfishness and greed, their Rand-Reagan
>>> legacy, made them old prematurely.

>> Pity about the russians.

> They are doing well, as I saw in Russia.

The USA is doing vastly better in every single measure.

The Russian GDP doesn't even match that of the UK.

Even the russians buy foreign cars, for a reason.

> Russia is just huge. The hope of humanity, thatis Russia. They have
> incredible resources.

> The hurt from Western sanctions won't bother them much.

We'll see with the oligarchs particularly.

>> >> China is also now flexing muscle, whereas under President Trump would
>> >> not of happened

>> > I agree. While Trump did arm Ukrainians, I doubt if he would have
>> urged
>> > them on to this state.

>> Biden didn't.

> He did encourage Zelensky.

Irrelevant to what Zelensky would have done anyway.

>> > He would have reasoned with Putin and told him that Ukraine would
>> remain
>> > neutral.

>> How odd that he actually praised Putin when
>> Putin recognised the two eastern provinces
>> of the Ukraine declared independence.

> Nothing odd about that. Trump is wiser than Biden.

Nothing wise about encouraging Putin to invade the Ukraine.

> Self-determination of a nation is an international right.

Which Putin is flouting.

> It does not always happen, true, as in Tibet, Kashmir, etc.
> But when that nation has powerful friends like Russia near,that does
> happen as happened in Crimea and Georgia.

Russia is no friend of the Ukraine.

> Trump is clever enough to realize this.

Even sillier than you usually manage and that's saying something.

>> > He might even have found a solution with Donbass,

>> How odd that he didn't while he was president.

> At least he kept Russia from invading Ukraine.

Bullshit he did. That continued to happen.

> Donbass had to do with Ukraine's hostility.

Nope, their choice to join the EU instead of russia.

> I suppose Trump thought it would be a good ideato make Russia bleed,
> keep them down that way.

They have bled FAR more in the last 4 weeks.

>> > like redrawing borders,

>> No US president gets to do that there.

> They could influence in a positive manner,help stop the civil war there

Trump never did that.

> instead of pouring petrol on it.

No one did that.

> Possibility of Trump trying a positive manner would be much greater.

How odd that it didn't happen.

> His kill count of foreign folk is very low.

That is a lie with Syria and ISIS.

> My FB reports say that the foreign policies of Clinton, Obama and the
> Bushes have killed 11 million foreign folk, and devastated many
> countries.

> Trump was an improvement.

The voters binned him anyway.

>> > giving Crimea water, etc.

>> Or that either.

> It would follow from above wisdom.

There is no wisdom above.

>> > All this misery would not have happened if he had been in power.

>> BULLSHIT.

> Nope. Trump would have shown a lot more sense.

> He would have doused the fire

Not even possible to do that.

> as opposed to making it far worse.

Biden never did that.

Re: USA to blame

<op.1j8ga1ocbyq249@pvr2.lan>

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
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Subject: Re: USA to blame
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 by: Rod Speed - Thu, 7 Apr 2022 02:10 UTC

Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> wrote

> On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 10:24:18 UTC+10, Rod Speed wrote:
>> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>> > On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 08:35:59 UTC+10, petzl wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:09:44 -0700 (PDT), Arindam Banerjee
>> >> <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 06:37:38 UTC+10, petzl wrote:
>> >> >> On Thu, 07 Apr 2022 05:51:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>> >> >> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
>> >> >> >> Mersheimer sounds reasonable.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
>> >> >> >series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Nothing to do with NATO.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> Putin's claim was the invasion, he denied was going to happen, was
>> >> >> because the Ukraine was going to join NATO?
>> >> >
>> >> >Yes, if you go through the video you will see that is exactly the
>> case.
>> >> >NATO was trying to get Georgia into its orbit, and that was stopped
>> >> earlier by Putin.
>> >> >Then Ukraine too. Trump armed them.
>> >> >
>> >> NATO was not interested in paying Ukraine US$160 billion for a
>> >> presence there. The EU could only offer $828 million.
>> >> Russia offered Ukraine a $15 billion loan and to cut Russian natural
>> >> gas prices by almost a third. Yanukovych canceled negotiations with
>> >> the EU and accepted Putin’s offer.
>> >>
>> >> Obama/Biden were then involved in a scheme to oust Ukrainian
>> President
>> >> Yanukovych and replace his administration with Western allies.
>> >> Yushchenko was 'given Agent Orange ingredient' to poison him by US
>> >> operatives. This left him disfigured.
>> >> >> Two Russians sit on a park bench in Moscow and talk, suddenly one
>> >> >> says: "You know, President Putin says that the special military
>> >> >> operation in Ukraine is really a war between Russia and NATO.
>> >> >
>> >> >Pretty obvious, to any neutral observer; just that NATO is fighting
>> to
>> >> the last Ukrainian.
>> >> >
>> >> NATO is not involved, Ukraine weaponry is
>> US/French/Australian/British
>> > All NATO.
>> >> supplied, plus captured Russian arms.
>> >> Russia is buying American arms left by Biden from the Taliban to use
>> >> in Ukraine
>> >> >> Oh, how's it going?
>> >> >> "So far we have lost 15,800 soldiers killed, 6 Generals, 530
>> tanks,
>> >> >> 1,597 armored vehicles, 1,033 soft vehicles, 280 howitzers, 82
>> >> salvage
>> >> >> pieces, 47 anti-aircraft systems, 108 aircraft, 124 helicopters
>> and
>> >> 50
>> >> >> drones," he said.
>> >> >
>> >> >If he quotes the Russian side he will say:
>> >> >"Those figures are theirs.
>> >> >We have also got Crimea, Donbass, got the canal water for Crimea,
>> >> which was blocked, got the shoreline, destroyed their navy and air
>> >> force, inflicted substantial damages to their infrastructure.
>> >> >We will attain our political objectives.
>> >> >Putin is our Lincoln."
>> >> >
>> >> >> "Oh, wow! And NATO?"
>> >> >> "No, they haven't showed up yet."
>> >> >
>> >> >Not physically, true. NATO gives them arms, aid, information,
>> >> threatens and sanctions Russia.
>> >> >
>> >> Actually NATO is not involved, too much of Europe need Russian
>> Gas/Oil
>> >
>> > The NATO leader is only a figurehead.
>> > NATO is mostly US leadership with UK as a strong follower.
>> > Biden runs NATO.
>> > Europe needs Russian fossil fuel, true, and they will get nuked if
>> they
>> > invade, so they are not as jumpy as US/UK.
>> >
>> >> >> This seems a probable account of the prelude, the attack happened
>> >> >> because of America's weak corrupt and un-elected "president".
>> >> >
>> >> >Too old for the job, yes, but a good representative of the modern
>> US,
>> >> that is no longer new and fresh.
>> >> >Selfishness and greed, their Rand-Reagan legacy, made them old
>> >> prematurely.
>> >> >
>> >> America now has the same problem the Old USSR had too many bumbling
>> >> crooked geriatrics running the show.
>> >> When it fell Putin left his beloved Stasi team, then formed from his
>> >> KGB mates and steal the profitable industries creating a Putin team
>> of
>> >> corrupt mega rich oligarch's.
>> >
>> > If you say so.
>> >
>> >>
>> <https://www.businessinsider.com/here-are-the-mega-yachts-belonging-to-russian-oligarchs-2022-3>
>> >> https://tinyurl.com/ycf7x8hj
>> >
>> > My information is that the mega yacht owning oligarchs belong to the
>> > sellout Yeltsin era that broke Russia, which Putin fixed.
>> > The media was jumping up and down about freezing Putin's vast wealth,
>> > stashed abroad.
>> > Did they find a kopek or cent?

>> Yep, and his yacht.

> No mention of that in the hostile-to-Putin media.

That is a lie with the BBC and our ABC.

>> > When I was in Moscow, staying at the best hotel there, I found they
>> were
>> > using second hand Mercedes cars renovated in Lithuania.
>> > And yes, we could afford to stay there.
>> > Unlike in US, where there is no chance of staying in similar luxury..
>> > The best Russians are spiritual, not materialistic.
>>
>> > If they are very rich they evidently do not flaunt their wealth as
>> > Americans do.

>> Pity about those super yachts, some of which
>> are worth the best part of a billion bucks.

> Putin and his mates are not crying about them.

No point in crying, won't help a bit.

> So they do not care about those yachts.

How odd that some of them moved them to the Maldives.

> And why should they, if they did not own them.

Corse they do.

>> > Marxism was an aberration, and a curse to them.
>> > As we know, Stalinists who were less atheistic

>> None of them were that.

>> > won over the totally atheistic Trotskyites.
>>
>> >> >> China is also now flexing muscle, whereas under President Trump
>> would
>> >> >> not of happened
>> >> >
>> >> >I agree. While Trump did arm Ukrainians, I doubt if he would have
>> >> urged them on to this state. He would have reasoned with Putin and
>> told
>> >> him that Ukraine would remain neutral.
>> >> >He might even have found a solution with Donbass, like redrawing
>> >> borders, giving Crimea water, etc.
>> >> >All this misery would not have happened if he had been in power.
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> <https://richardsonpost.com/worm/26039/the-us-is-culpable-in-todays-ukraine-crisis/?fbclid=IwAR037nMRm1t7fyf9KMZd-J_uojCKFSJFF8-xr3Tg4k8gvRQOi3KwKTQrC8I>
>> >> >> https://tinyurl.com/y8gvpvxv

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Subject: Re: USA to blame
From: banerjee...@gmail.com (Arindam Banerjee)
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 by: Arindam Banerjee - Thu, 7 Apr 2022 03:45 UTC

On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 12:10:10 UTC+10, Rod Speed wrote:
> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> > On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 10:24:18 UTC+10, Rod Speed wrote:
> >> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
> >>
> >> > On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 08:35:59 UTC+10, petzl wrote:
> >> >> On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:09:44 -0700 (PDT), Arindam Banerjee
> >> >> <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 06:37:38 UTC+10, petzl wrote:
> >> >> >> On Thu, 07 Apr 2022 05:51:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> >> >> >> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
> >> >> >> >> Mersheimer sounds reasonable.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
> >> >> >> >series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Nothing to do with NATO.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Putin's claim was the invasion, he denied was going to happen, was
> >> >> >> because the Ukraine was going to join NATO?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Yes, if you go through the video you will see that is exactly the
> >> case.
> >> >> >NATO was trying to get Georgia into its orbit, and that was stopped
> >> >> earlier by Putin.
> >> >> >Then Ukraine too. Trump armed them.
> >> >> >
> >> >> NATO was not interested in paying Ukraine US$160 billion for a
> >> >> presence there. The EU could only offer $828 million.
> >> >> Russia offered Ukraine a $15 billion loan and to cut Russian natural
> >> >> gas prices by almost a third. Yanukovych canceled negotiations with
> >> >> the EU and accepted Putin’s offer.
> >> >>
> >> >> Obama/Biden were then involved in a scheme to oust Ukrainian
> >> President
> >> >> Yanukovych and replace his administration with Western allies.
> >> >> Yushchenko was 'given Agent Orange ingredient' to poison him by US
> >> >> operatives. This left him disfigured.
> >> >> >> Two Russians sit on a park bench in Moscow and talk, suddenly one
> >> >> >> says: "You know, President Putin says that the special military
> >> >> >> operation in Ukraine is really a war between Russia and NATO.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Pretty obvious, to any neutral observer; just that NATO is fighting
> >> to
> >> >> the last Ukrainian.
> >> >> >
> >> >> NATO is not involved, Ukraine weaponry is
> >> US/French/Australian/British
> >> > All NATO.
> >> >> supplied, plus captured Russian arms.
> >> >> Russia is buying American arms left by Biden from the Taliban to use
> >> >> in Ukraine
> >> >> >> Oh, how's it going?
> >> >> >> "So far we have lost 15,800 soldiers killed, 6 Generals, 530
> >> tanks,
> >> >> >> 1,597 armored vehicles, 1,033 soft vehicles, 280 howitzers, 82
> >> >> salvage
> >> >> >> pieces, 47 anti-aircraft systems, 108 aircraft, 124 helicopters
> >> and
> >> >> 50
> >> >> >> drones," he said.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >If he quotes the Russian side he will say:
> >> >> >"Those figures are theirs.
> >> >> >We have also got Crimea, Donbass, got the canal water for Crimea,
> >> >> which was blocked, got the shoreline, destroyed their navy and air
> >> >> force, inflicted substantial damages to their infrastructure.
> >> >> >We will attain our political objectives.
> >> >> >Putin is our Lincoln."
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> "Oh, wow! And NATO?"
> >> >> >> "No, they haven't showed up yet."
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Not physically, true. NATO gives them arms, aid, information,
> >> >> threatens and sanctions Russia.
> >> >> >
> >> >> Actually NATO is not involved, too much of Europe need Russian
> >> Gas/Oil
> >> >
> >> > The NATO leader is only a figurehead.
> >> > NATO is mostly US leadership with UK as a strong follower.
> >> > Biden runs NATO.
> >> > Europe needs Russian fossil fuel, true, and they will get nuked if
> >> they
> >> > invade, so they are not as jumpy as US/UK.
> >> >
> >> >> >> This seems a probable account of the prelude, the attack happened
> >> >> >> because of America's weak corrupt and un-elected "president".
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Too old for the job, yes, but a good representative of the modern
> >> US,
> >> >> that is no longer new and fresh.
> >> >> >Selfishness and greed, their Rand-Reagan legacy, made them old
> >> >> prematurely.
> >> >> >
> >> >> America now has the same problem the Old USSR had too many bumbling
> >> >> crooked geriatrics running the show.
> >> >> When it fell Putin left his beloved Stasi team, then formed from his
> >> >> KGB mates and steal the profitable industries creating a Putin team
> >> of
> >> >> corrupt mega rich oligarch's.
> >> >
> >> > If you say so.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> <https://www.businessinsider.com/here-are-the-mega-yachts-belonging-to-russian-oligarchs-2022-3>
> >> >> https://tinyurl.com/ycf7x8hj
> >> >
> >> > My information is that the mega yacht owning oligarchs belong to the
> >> > sellout Yeltsin era that broke Russia, which Putin fixed.
> >> > The media was jumping up and down about freezing Putin's vast wealth,
> >> > stashed abroad.
> >> > Did they find a kopek or cent?
>
> >> Yep, and his yacht.
>
> > No mention of that in the hostile-to-Putin media.
> That is a lie with the BBC and our ABC.
Rubbish. Had they found something Putin had stashed somewhere in the West they would repeat it night and day.
> >> > When I was in Moscow, staying at the best hotel there, I found they
> >> were
> >> > using second hand Mercedes cars renovated in Lithuania.
> >> > And yes, we could afford to stay there.
> >> > Unlike in US, where there is no chance of staying in similar luxury.
> >> > The best Russians are spiritual, not materialistic.
> >>
> >> > If they are very rich they evidently do not flaunt their wealth as
> >> > Americans do.
>
> >> Pity about those super yachts, some of which
> >> are worth the best part of a billion bucks.
>
> > Putin and his mates are not crying about them.
> No point in crying, won't help a bit.

It does not look like they are asking for help!
Quite the opposite. They are weathering all the sanctions.
Fact is they do not care about their foreign loot, if any.
Which means they are not that way corrupt, and so unlike those of the earlier Yeltsin era living abroad in luxury - now these are the guys who took the blows! Ironic!

> > So they do not care about those yachts.
> How odd that some of them moved them to the Maldives.

Not odd at all. Why should anyone let property get seized by hostiles?
As to whose yacht belong to whom, how it was acquired, that is something beyond our scope.
The property of Yeltsin era oligarchs does not bother Putin. He has other things to do, like get ruble payment for gas.
He is the Czar of Russia. Russia is vast. Some piddling yachts may be of concern to paltry billionaires, not someone who can use the vast resources of Russia.

> > And why should they, if they did not own them.
> Corse they do.

In any case, hardly matters to them. They have much more back home, like the use of the vast Russian resources.


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Re: USA to blame

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 by: Rod Speed - Thu, 7 Apr 2022 03:54 UTC

Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> wrote

> On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 12:10:10 UTC+10, Rod Speed wrote:
>> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>> > On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 10:24:18 UTC+10, Rod Speed wrote:
>> >> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
>> >>
>> >> > On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 08:35:59 UTC+10, petzl wrote:
>> >> >> On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:09:44 -0700 (PDT), Arindam Banerjee
>> >> >> <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 06:37:38 UTC+10, petzl wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Thu, 07 Apr 2022 05:51:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>> >> >> >> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
>> >> >> >> >> Mersheimer sounds reasonable.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
>> >> >> >> >series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine..
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >Nothing to do with NATO.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Putin's claim was the invasion, he denied was going to happen,
>> was
>> >> >> >> because the Ukraine was going to join NATO?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Yes, if you go through the video you will see that is exactly the
>> >> case.
>> >> >> >NATO was trying to get Georgia into its orbit, and that was
>> stopped
>> >> >> earlier by Putin.
>> >> >> >Then Ukraine too. Trump armed them.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> NATO was not interested in paying Ukraine US$160 billion for a
>> >> >> presence there. The EU could only offer $828 million.
>> >> >> Russia offered Ukraine a $15 billion loan and to cut Russian
>> natural
>> >> >> gas prices by almost a third. Yanukovych canceled negotiations
>> with
>> >> >> the EU and accepted Putin’s offer.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Obama/Biden were then involved in a scheme to oust Ukrainian
>> >> President
>> >> >> Yanukovych and replace his administration with Western allies.
>> >> >> Yushchenko was 'given Agent Orange ingredient' to poison him by US
>> >> >> operatives. This left him disfigured.
>> >> >> >> Two Russians sit on a park bench in Moscow and talk, suddenly
>> one
>> >> >> >> says: "You know, President Putin says that the special military
>> >> >> >> operation in Ukraine is really a war between Russia and NATO..
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Pretty obvious, to any neutral observer; just that NATO is
>> fighting
>> >> to
>> >> >> the last Ukrainian.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> NATO is not involved, Ukraine weaponry is
>> >> US/French/Australian/British
>> >> > All NATO.
>> >> >> supplied, plus captured Russian arms.
>> >> >> Russia is buying American arms left by Biden from the Taliban to
>> use
>> >> >> in Ukraine
>> >> >> >> Oh, how's it going?
>> >> >> >> "So far we have lost 15,800 soldiers killed, 6 Generals, 530
>> >> tanks,
>> >> >> >> 1,597 armored vehicles, 1,033 soft vehicles, 280 howitzers, 82
>> >> >> salvage
>> >> >> >> pieces, 47 anti-aircraft systems, 108 aircraft, 124 helicopters
>> >> and
>> >> >> 50
>> >> >> >> drones," he said.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >If he quotes the Russian side he will say:
>> >> >> >"Those figures are theirs.
>> >> >> >We have also got Crimea, Donbass, got the canal water for Crimea,
>> >> >> which was blocked, got the shoreline, destroyed their navy and air
>> >> >> force, inflicted substantial damages to their infrastructure.
>> >> >> >We will attain our political objectives.
>> >> >> >Putin is our Lincoln."
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> "Oh, wow! And NATO?"
>> >> >> >> "No, they haven't showed up yet."
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Not physically, true. NATO gives them arms, aid, information,
>> >> >> threatens and sanctions Russia.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> Actually NATO is not involved, too much of Europe need Russian
>> >> Gas/Oil
>> >> >
>> >> > The NATO leader is only a figurehead.
>> >> > NATO is mostly US leadership with UK as a strong follower.
>> >> > Biden runs NATO.
>> >> > Europe needs Russian fossil fuel, true, and they will get nuked if
>> >> they
>> >> > invade, so they are not as jumpy as US/UK.
>> >> >
>> >> >> >> This seems a probable account of the prelude, the attack
>> happened
>> >> >> >> because of America's weak corrupt and un-elected "president"..
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Too old for the job, yes, but a good representative of the modern
>> >> US,
>> >> >> that is no longer new and fresh.
>> >> >> >Selfishness and greed, their Rand-Reagan legacy, made them old
>> >> >> prematurely.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> America now has the same problem the Old USSR had too many
>> bumbling
>> >> >> crooked geriatrics running the show.
>> >> >> When it fell Putin left his beloved Stasi team, then formed from
>> his
>> >> >> KGB mates and steal the profitable industries creating a Putin
>> team
>> >> of
>> >> >> corrupt mega rich oligarch's.
>> >> >
>> >> > If you say so.
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> <https://www.businessinsider.com/here-are-the-mega-yachts-belonging-to-russian-oligarchs-2022-3>
>> >> >> https://tinyurl.com/ycf7x8hj
>> >> >
>> >> > My information is that the mega yacht owning oligarchs belong to
>> the
>> >> > sellout Yeltsin era that broke Russia, which Putin fixed.
>> >> > The media was jumping up and down about freezing Putin's vast
>> wealth,
>> >> > stashed abroad.
>> >> > Did they find a kopek or cent?
>>
>> >> Yep, and his yacht.
>>
>> > No mention of that in the hostile-to-Putin media.

>> That is a lie with the BBC and our ABC.

> Rubbish.

Fact.

> Had they found something Putin had stashed somewherein the West they
> would repeat it night and day.

Nope, they only said it the one time.

>> >> > When I was in Moscow, staying at the best hotel there, I found they
>> >> were
>> >> > using second hand Mercedes cars renovated in Lithuania.
>> >> > And yes, we could afford to stay there.
>> >> > Unlike in US, where there is no chance of staying in similar
>> luxury.
>> >> > The best Russians are spiritual, not materialistic.
>> >>
>> >> > If they are very rich they evidently do not flaunt their wealth as
>> >> > Americans do.
>>
>> >> Pity about those super yachts, some of which
>> >> are worth the best part of a billion bucks.
>>
>> > Putin and his mates are not crying about them.

>> No point in crying, won't help a bit.

> It does not look like they are asking for help!

No point in doing that.

> Quite the opposite. They are weathering all the sanctions.

Bullshit they are with all the seized megayachts and funds and houses.


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Re: USA to blame

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 by: Arindam Banerjee - Thu, 7 Apr 2022 04:09 UTC

On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 12:06:24 UTC+10, Rod Speed wrote:
> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
> > Rod Speed wrote
> >> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
> >>> petzl wrote
> >>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
> >>>>> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> >> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
> >> >> >> Mersheimer sounds reasonable.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
> >> >> >series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Nothing to do with NATO.
> >> >> >
> >> >> Putin's claim was the invasion, he denied was going to happen, was
> >> >> because the Ukraine was going to join NATO?
> >> >
> >> > Yes, if you go through the video you will see that is exactly the
> >> case.
> >> > NATO was trying to get Georgia into its orbit, and that was stopped
> >> > earlier by Putin.
> >> > Then Ukraine too.
>
> >> Pity about Chechnya and the Crimea.
>
> > A President has to do his job.
> > Crush rebels
> Murdering those who he decides are his enemys is illegal, even in russhia.

When the Govt. kills to crush rebellion it is not murder.
It is about law and order.
Happens everywhere.
> > and rescue his kinfolk.
>
> That isn't what happened in Georgia.

It did, just as in Crimea and Donbass. There are Russian majorities there, who wanted out of Ukraine, and be no part of the West they rather despise.
Putin had shown what he had done in Georgia.
His intentions regarding Ukraine had always been clear.
No NATO!

> And isn't legal when his kinfolk have chosen to move
> to an independent country like the Ukraine either.

Maybe not legal, but who cares for legality when one has power.
Might is right, and don't Americans know it.

Hear what President Mugabe of Zimababwe said about the NATO killings of Col Gaddafi and his family in LIbya.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH19PIVNO1E

Pakistan always wants to invade Kashmir on religious grounds.
They have been unsuccessful, as they are not strong enough to do so

Russia is strong, so they did it. They could not stand the killings of Russians in Donbass, so they had to do something.

In 1971, West Pakistan was committing atrocities upon the Bengalis of East Pakistan, for months.
10 million refugees came to India, as a result of the Pakistani genocidal policies.
India was not that strong, then, but had to do something to stop the genocide of the Bengalis, about which the world could not care less. Just make polite concerned noises.

India invaded East Pakistan, captured 93000 Pakistani soldiers, and created the new nation of Bangladesh. (A very satisfactory conclusion for most parties.)
The whole international community condemned the illegal invasion. Bhutto the Pakistani PM wept loudly in the UN, about the illegality of it all.

The US sent its 6th fleet to the Bay of Bengal. Pakistan was their ally, and Nixon hated Indians.
USSR saved India, both in the UN using veto and sending submarines to the Bay of Bengal. Indian air force was also prepared to fight off the Americans.
Nixon retreated, but this incursion will never be forgotten.

To do what is right, or what is necessary for survival, one has to ignore what is legal.
> > Putin did it.

Re: USA to blame

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.politics
Subject: Re: USA to blame
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2022 15:18:21 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Thu, 7 Apr 2022 05:18 UTC

Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
>> > Rod Speed wrote
>> >> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
>> >>> petzl wrote
>> >>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> >>>>> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote

>> >> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
>> >> >> >> Mersheimer sounds reasonable.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
>> >> >> >series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Nothing to do with NATO.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> Putin's claim was the invasion, he denied was going to happen, was
>> >> >> because the Ukraine was going to join NATO?
>> >> >
>> >> > Yes, if you go through the video you will see that is exactly the
>> >> case.
>> >> > NATO was trying to get Georgia into its orbit, and that was stopped
>> >> > earlier by Putin.
>> >> > Then Ukraine too.
>>
>> >> Pity about Chechnya and the Crimea.
>>
>> > A President has to do his job.

>> > Crush rebels

>> Murdering those who he decides are his enemys is illegal, even in
>> russhia.

> When the Govt. kills to crush rebellion it is not murder.

The invasion of the Ukraine isn't crushing a rebellion.

Neither was Georgia.

> It is about law and order.
> Happens everywhere.

Nope, it has never happened here.

>>> and rescue his kinfolk.

>> That isn't what happened in Georgia.

> It did,

Bullshit it did.

> just as in Crimea and Donbass.

More of your pig ignorant bullshit.

> There are Russian majorities there,

Nope.

> who wanted out of Ukraine,

They were free to return to russia. Putin
even handed them Russian passports.

> and be no part of the West they rather despise.

They were free to return to russia. Putin
even handed them Russian passports.

> Putin had shown what he had done in Georgia.

Yep, lied about being a peace keeping force.

That arsehole gets no say on what happens in a foreign country.

> His intentions regarding Ukraine had always been clear.
> No NATO!

He gets no say what so ever on whether the
Ukraine gets to join the EU or NATO either.

>> And isn't legal when his kinfolk have chosen to move
>> to an independent country like the Ukraine either.

> Maybe not legal,

No maybe about it.

> but who cares for legality when one has power.

Most of the rest of the world.

> Might is right, and don't Americans know it.

> Hear what President Mugabe of Zimababwe said aboutthe NATO killings of
> Col Gaddafi and his family in LIbya.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH19PIVNO1E

Not interested given who that arsehole had killed.

> Pakistan always wants to invade Kashmir on religious grounds.
> They have been unsuccessful, as they are not strong enough to do so

Nope, because India has nukes.

> Russia is strong, so they did it.

And got the sanctions when they did.

> They could not stand the killings of Russiansin Donbass, so they had to
> do something.

More of your pig ignorant bullshit.

Putin invaded the Ukraine to get a land bridge from the
Crimea to russia and to get the Ukrainian black see ports.

> In 1971, West Pakistan was committing atrocities upon the Bengalis of
> East Pakistan, for months.
> 10 million refugees came to India, as a result of the Pakistani
> genocidal policies.

And millions of muslims went to Pakistan when you
Hindus killed so many of them during partition.

> India was not that strong, then, but had to do something to stop the
> genocide of the Bengalis, about which the world could not care less.
> Just make polite concerned noises.

> India invaded East Pakistan, captured 93000 Pakistani soldiers, and
> created the new nation of Bangladesh. (A very satisfactory conclusion
> for most parties.)

And now that both have nukes, it won't happen again there.

> The whole international community condemned the illegal invasion.
> Bhutto the Pakistani PM wept loudly in the UN, about the illegality of
> it all.

> The US sent its 6th fleet to the Bay of Bengal.Pakistan was their ally,
> and Nixon hated Indians.

Bullshit. India always chose to be non aligned
and is doing that now with Putin sanctions.

> USSR saved India,

Bullshit,

> both in the UN using veto and sending submarines to the Bay of Bengal.
> Indian air force was also prepared to fight off the Americans.
> Nixon retreated, but this incursion will never be forgotten.

No one will forget what you arseholes got up to during partition.

> To do what is right, or what is necessary for survival, one has to
> ignore what is legal.

Putin isn't doing anything for survival.

Re: USA to blame

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Subject: Re: USA to blame
From: banerjee...@gmail.com (Arindam Banerjee)
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 by: Arindam Banerjee - Thu, 7 Apr 2022 05:24 UTC

On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 15:18:28 UTC+10, Rod Speed wrote:
> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
> > Rod Speed wrote
> >> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
> >> > Rod Speed wrote
> >> >> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
> >> >>> petzl wrote
> >> >>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
> >> >>>>> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> >> >> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
> >> >> >> >> Mersheimer sounds reasonable.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
> >> >> >> >series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Nothing to do with NATO.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Putin's claim was the invasion, he denied was going to happen, was
> >> >> >> because the Ukraine was going to join NATO?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Yes, if you go through the video you will see that is exactly the
> >> >> case.
> >> >> > NATO was trying to get Georgia into its orbit, and that was stopped
> >> >> > earlier by Putin.
> >> >> > Then Ukraine too.
> >>
> >> >> Pity about Chechnya and the Crimea.
> >>
> >> > A President has to do his job.
>
> >> > Crush rebels
>
> >> Murdering those who he decides are his enemys is illegal, even in
> >> russhia.
>
> > When the Govt. kills to crush rebellion it is not murder.
> The invasion of the Ukraine isn't crushing a rebellion.
Never said it was. It was preventive war. Like Lincoln on the South, to stop the South making an alliance with UK.

Re: USA to blame

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Subject: Re: USA to blame
From: banerjee...@gmail.com (Arindam Banerjee)
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 by: Arindam Banerjee - Thu, 7 Apr 2022 05:33 UTC

On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 13:54:41 UTC+10, Rod Speed wrote:
> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> > On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 12:10:10 UTC+10, Rod Speed wrote:
> >> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
> >>
> >> > On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 10:24:18 UTC+10, Rod Speed wrote:
> >> >> Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 08:35:59 UTC+10, petzl wrote:
> >> >> >> On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 15:09:44 -0700 (PDT), Arindam Banerjee
> >> >> >> <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 06:37:38 UTC+10, petzl wrote:
> >> >> >> >> On Thu, 07 Apr 2022 05:51:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> >> >> >> >> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >Arindam Banerjee <banerjee...@gmail.com> wrote
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzZ_lVHv_A
> >> >> >> >> >> Mersheimer sounds reasonable.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >Bullshit he does. The Ukraine is just the most recent in the
> >> >> >> >> >series of Chechnya, Georgia, the Crimea and now the Ukraine.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >Nothing to do with NATO.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> Putin's claim was the invasion, he denied was going to happen,
> >> was
> >> >> >> >> because the Ukraine was going to join NATO?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Yes, if you go through the video you will see that is exactly the
> >> >> case.
> >> >> >> >NATO was trying to get Georgia into its orbit, and that was
> >> stopped
> >> >> >> earlier by Putin.
> >> >> >> >Then Ukraine too. Trump armed them.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> NATO was not interested in paying Ukraine US$160 billion for a
> >> >> >> presence there. The EU could only offer $828 million.
> >> >> >> Russia offered Ukraine a $15 billion loan and to cut Russian
> >> natural
> >> >> >> gas prices by almost a third. Yanukovych canceled negotiations
> >> with
> >> >> >> the EU and accepted Putin’s offer.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Obama/Biden were then involved in a scheme to oust Ukrainian
> >> >> President
> >> >> >> Yanukovych and replace his administration with Western allies.
> >> >> >> Yushchenko was 'given Agent Orange ingredient' to poison him by US
> >> >> >> operatives. This left him disfigured.
> >> >> >> >> Two Russians sit on a park bench in Moscow and talk, suddenly
> >> one
> >> >> >> >> says: "You know, President Putin says that the special military
> >> >> >> >> operation in Ukraine is really a war between Russia and NATO.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Pretty obvious, to any neutral observer; just that NATO is
> >> fighting
> >> >> to
> >> >> >> the last Ukrainian.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> NATO is not involved, Ukraine weaponry is
> >> >> US/French/Australian/British
> >> >> > All NATO.
> >> >> >> supplied, plus captured Russian arms.
> >> >> >> Russia is buying American arms left by Biden from the Taliban to
> >> use
> >> >> >> in Ukraine
> >> >> >> >> Oh, how's it going?
> >> >> >> >> "So far we have lost 15,800 soldiers killed, 6 Generals, 530
> >> >> tanks,
> >> >> >> >> 1,597 armored vehicles, 1,033 soft vehicles, 280 howitzers, 82
> >> >> >> salvage
> >> >> >> >> pieces, 47 anti-aircraft systems, 108 aircraft, 124 helicopters
> >> >> and
> >> >> >> 50
> >> >> >> >> drones," he said.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >If he quotes the Russian side he will say:
> >> >> >> >"Those figures are theirs.
> >> >> >> >We have also got Crimea, Donbass, got the canal water for Crimea,
> >> >> >> which was blocked, got the shoreline, destroyed their navy and air
> >> >> >> force, inflicted substantial damages to their infrastructure.
> >> >> >> >We will attain our political objectives.
> >> >> >> >Putin is our Lincoln."
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> "Oh, wow! And NATO?"
> >> >> >> >> "No, they haven't showed up yet."
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Not physically, true. NATO gives them arms, aid, information,
> >> >> >> threatens and sanctions Russia.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Actually NATO is not involved, too much of Europe need Russian
> >> >> Gas/Oil
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The NATO leader is only a figurehead.
> >> >> > NATO is mostly US leadership with UK as a strong follower.
> >> >> > Biden runs NATO.
> >> >> > Europe needs Russian fossil fuel, true, and they will get nuked if
> >> >> they
> >> >> > invade, so they are not as jumpy as US/UK.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> This seems a probable account of the prelude, the attack
> >> happened
> >> >> >> >> because of America's weak corrupt and un-elected "president".
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Too old for the job, yes, but a good representative of the modern
> >> >> US,
> >> >> >> that is no longer new and fresh.
> >> >> >> >Selfishness and greed, their Rand-Reagan legacy, made them old
> >> >> >> prematurely.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> America now has the same problem the Old USSR had too many
> >> bumbling
> >> >> >> crooked geriatrics running the show.
> >> >> >> When it fell Putin left his beloved Stasi team, then formed from
> >> his
> >> >> >> KGB mates and steal the profitable industries creating a Putin
> >> team
> >> >> of
> >> >> >> corrupt mega rich oligarch's.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If you say so.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> <https://www.businessinsider.com/here-are-the-mega-yachts-belonging-to-russian-oligarchs-2022-3>
> >> >> >> https://tinyurl.com/ycf7x8hj
> >> >> >
> >> >> > My information is that the mega yacht owning oligarchs belong to
> >> the
> >> >> > sellout Yeltsin era that broke Russia, which Putin fixed.
> >> >> > The media was jumping up and down about freezing Putin's vast
> >> wealth,
> >> >> > stashed abroad.
> >> >> > Did they find a kopek or cent?
> >>
> >> >> Yep, and his yacht.
> >>
> >> > No mention of that in the hostile-to-Putin media.
>
> >> That is a lie with the BBC and our ABC.
>
> > Rubbish.
> Fact.
Heh
>
> > Had they found something Putin had stashed somewherein the West they
> > would repeat it night and day.
> Nope, they only said it the one time.
My point proven.
> >> >> > When I was in Moscow, staying at the best hotel there, I found they
> >> >> were
> >> >> > using second hand Mercedes cars renovated in Lithuania.
> >> >> > And yes, we could afford to stay there.
> >> >> > Unlike in US, where there is no chance of staying in similar
> >> luxury.
> >> >> > The best Russians are spiritual, not materialistic.
> >> >>
> >> >> > If they are very rich they evidently do not flaunt their wealth as
> >> >> > Americans do.
> >>
> >> >> Pity about those super yachts, some of which
> >> >> are worth the best part of a billion bucks.
> >>
> >> > Putin and his mates are not crying about them.
>
> >> No point in crying, won't help a bit.
>
> > It does not look like they are asking for help!
> No point in doing that.
> > Quite the opposite. They are weathering all the sanctions.
> Bullshit they are with all the seized megayachts and funds and houses.
No doubt they feel compensated by increased security from *not* having NATO nukes five minutes away from Moscow.
> > Fact is they do not care about their foreign loot, if any.
> Must be why they moved some of them to the Maldives etc.
Lucky for Maldives.
> > Which means they are not that way corrupt,
> So those billion dollar mega yachts were
> all paid for using the piggy bank, eh ?
Which yacht belongs to Putin by registration is the question.
> > and so unlike those of the earlier Yeltsin era living abroad in luxury
> Just like most of Putin's daughters.
Such a good girl, the one who bravely took the covid vaccine Sputnik.
> > - now these are the guys who took the blows! Ironic!
> So has Putin and his earlier daughters.
Putin has lost nothing, and his daughters have no political significance.
> >> > So they do not care about those yachts.
>
> >> How odd that some of them moved them to the Maldives.
>
> > Not odd at all. Why should anyone let property get seized by hostiles?
> > As to whose yacht belong to whom, how it was acquired, that is something
> > beyond our scope.
> Wrong, as always.
Lame.
> > The property of Yeltsin era oligarchs does not bother Putin.
> But his daughters do and he cares about his loot too.
Lame. Evidently he does not care about his supposed loot, for if he did, he would not have invaded Ukraine and thus risked their loss.
So his invasion makes sense if he had nothing to lose, for he had nothing to lose.
> > He has other things to do, like get ruble payment for gas.
>
> > He is the Czar of Russia. Russia is vast. Some piddling yachts may be
> > of concern to paltry billionaires, not someone who can use the vast
> > resources of Russia.
> Putin doesn't.
Lame.
He has all the powers of the Czars and more efficient usage.
> >> > And why should they, if they did not own them.
> >> Corse they do.
> >
> > In any case, hardly matters to them. They have much more back home,
> > like the use of the vast Russian resources.
> Putin doesn't and neither do his daughters who
> aren't even in russia.
Lame.
> >> >> > Marxism was an aberration, and a curse to them.
> >> >> > As we know, Stalinists who were less atheistic
> >>
> >> >> None of them were that.
> >>
> >> >> > won over the totally atheistic Trotskyites.
> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> China is also now flexing muscle, whereas under President Trump
> >> >> would
> >> >> >> >> not of happened
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >I agree. While Trump did arm Ukrainians, I doubt if he would have
> >> >> >> urged them on to this state. He would have reasoned with Putin and
> >> >> told
> >> >> >> him that Ukraine would remain neutral.
> >> >> >> >He might even have found a solution with Donbass, like redrawing
> >> >> >> borders, giving Crimea water, etc.
> >> >> >> >All this misery would not have happened if he had been in power..
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> <https://richardsonpost.com/worm/26039/the-us-is-culpable-in-todays-ukraine-crisis/?fbclid=IwAR037nMRm1t7fyf9KMZd-J_uojCKFSJFF8-xr3Tg4k8gvRQOi3KwKTQrC8I>
> >> >> >> >> https://tinyurl.com/y8gvpvxv


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