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aus+uk / aus.cars / Re: Diesel additives...

SubjectAuthor
* Diesel additives...lindsay
+* Diesel additives...Clocky
|`- Diesel additives...jonz@ nothere.com
+- Diesel additives...Noddy
+* Diesel additives...Daryl
|`* Diesel additives...lindsay
| `* Diesel additives...Daryl
|  `* Diesel additives...lindsay
|   `* Diesel additives...keithr0
|    `* Diesel additives...lindsay
|     +* Diesel additives...Daryl
|     |`* Diesel additives...lindsay
|     | `- Diesel additives...Daryl
|     `* Diesel additives...keithr0
|      `- Diesel additives...lindsay
+* Diesel additives...John_H
|`* Diesel additives...lindsay
| `* Diesel additives...John_H
|  +- Diesel additives...lindsay
|  `* Diesel additives...lindsay
|   `* Diesel additives...John_H
|    +* Diesel additives...Daryl
|    |+- Diesel additives...Noddy
|    |`* Diesel additives...John_H
|    | +* Diesel additives...Noddy
|    | |+* Diesel additives...John_H
|    | ||+- Diesel additives...Noddy
|    | ||`- Diesel additives...Daryl
|    | |`* Diesel additives...lindsay
|    | | `- Diesel additives...Noddy
|    | `- Diesel additives...Daryl
|    `* Diesel additives...lindsay
|     `* Diesel additives...John_H
|      `* Diesel additives...lindsay
|       `* Diesel additives...John_H
|        `* Diesel additives...lindsay
|         `- Diesel additives...John_H
`* Diesel additives...lindsay
 `* Diesel additives...Noddy
  `- Diesel additives...Noddy

Pages:12
Re: Diesel additives...

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From: john4...@hotmail.com (John_H)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Diesel additives...
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2022 12:10:15 +1000
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 by: John_H - Sun, 20 Feb 2022 02:10 UTC

Noddy wrote:
>On 20/02/2022 10:16 am, John_H wrote:
>> Daryl wrote:
>
>>> Do late model FWA tractors not have a centre diff?
>>
>> They certainly don't but most have provision to lock the rear diff
>> which isn't meant to be used when working under load but can be useful
>> for moving the tractor about in boggy conditions.
>
>Not just boggy conditions.
>
>I spent a few days last week spreading 14 tonnes of 20mm Tuscan Stone
>over my driveway as it was long overdue for some maintenance, and with a
>full bucket the rear wheels get little purchase. I don't have rough
>ground here, but the 4wd is needed to get the thing moving when picking
>up a bucket load, or digging into a pile that needs aerating.

You seem to be confusing diff lock with 4WD!

4WD is for maximising tractive efficiency when working under load,
which includes digging into a pile with the FEL. You shouldn't need
to use the diff lock under those conditions if the tractor is properly
ballasted and it will certainly be able to push a lot harder if it is.

Diff lock is only meant for very occasional use. A lot of early FWA's
had a button on the floor the operator needed to keep their foot on to
maintain lock so it couldn't be permanently engaged (Daryl is probably
familiar with the Ford TW series which worked that way).

--
John H

Re: Diesel additives...

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From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Diesel additives...
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2022 13:33:02 +1100
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 by: Noddy - Sun, 20 Feb 2022 02:33 UTC

On 20/02/2022 1:10 pm, John_H wrote:
> Noddy wrote:
>> On 20/02/2022 10:16 am, John_H wrote:
>>> Daryl wrote:
>>
>>>> Do late model FWA tractors not have a centre diff?
>>>
>>> They certainly don't but most have provision to lock the rear diff
>>> which isn't meant to be used when working under load but can be useful
>>> for moving the tractor about in boggy conditions.
>>
>> Not just boggy conditions.
>>
>> I spent a few days last week spreading 14 tonnes of 20mm Tuscan Stone
>> over my driveway as it was long overdue for some maintenance, and with a
>> full bucket the rear wheels get little purchase. I don't have rough
>> ground here, but the 4wd is needed to get the thing moving when picking
>> up a bucket load, or digging into a pile that needs aerating.
>
> You seem to be confusing diff lock with 4WD!

Sorry, I meant to reply to your paragraph below the one I actually did
where you were talking about 4wd.

> 4WD is for maximising tractive efficiency when working under load,
> which includes digging into a pile with the FEL. You shouldn't need
> to use the diff lock under those conditions if the tractor is properly
> ballasted and it will certainly be able to push a lot harder if it is.

I don't have the environment here where diff lock needs to be used.

> Diff lock is only meant for very occasional use. A lot of early FWA's
> had a button on the floor the operator needed to keep their foot on to
> maintain lock so it couldn't be permanently engaged (Daryl is probably
> familiar with the Ford TW series which worked that way).

Mine's the same. It has a little spring loaded lever that you press with
your heel that engages the diff lock for as long as you hold it down and
disengages it as soon as you release the lever.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: Diesel additives...

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From: nop...@nunnya.business.com.au (lindsay)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
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 by: lindsay - Sun, 20 Feb 2022 06:15 UTC

On 18/02/2022 9:35 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 18/2/22 6:30 pm, lindsay wrote:
>
>> Accountant didnt blink an eye when I suggested i'd be taking my mig
>> welder, and a crate full of cordless tools (some of which I havent
>> purchased yet) with me. I did ask about a new shotgun. He asked "why?"
>> I replied "security!": he baulked at that..  Sook. :-) The electric
>> forklift may need a new set of Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries
>> too.... :-)
>>
> LOL, when we closed up the cleaning business most of the smaller items
> were sold for cash all of it going straight in my pocket:-)
> Accountant didn't seem to think that that was a bad idea:-)

Already warned the missus that all her handcraft crap out in the shed is
going. I have a deal with the driver of the waste truck that turns up
every 4 weeks.... half a dozen stubbies to empty a 1.5 cubic metre
dumpster. I can fit an aweful lot of wool and other assorted shit in
there. When i sms him out of sequence, it's $50 a pickup next day. Big
deal!!!

Seriously, it's astonishing how much crap/unwanted stuff is in there,
and how much I wont chuck out.. like metal drop saws, 2.5hp box air con,
shelving, pallet racking... old moulds for a canoe, ponds, dingy's, boat
jet unit.... my neighbours call my storeroom "Bunnings"for good
reason... Already taken the diamond saw to some old moulds...

Then there's the forklift, pallet racking, 2 tonne elec hoist, 5 x
chemical cabinets...slings and chains... trestles, dollies, air tools...
shit everywhere... and then my customers moulds which may be returned to
him, depending on circumstances... :-)

Still, cant wait. Will need to buy some ancillaries beforehand, (12
tubes of Castrol grease for the er, forklift,... on special at total
tools for $10 per 450g tube if you buy a dozen!

What other neighbours have done when moving out, is just put what they
dont want/cant sell out the front of the joint, and it disappears
overnight. I'll wait to see how things go. :-)

Re: Diesel additives...

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Subject: Re: Diesel additives...
Newsgroups: aus.cars
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 by: lindsay - Sun, 20 Feb 2022 06:36 UTC

On 19/02/2022 9:47 am, John_H wrote:
> lindsay wrote:
>> On 8/02/2022 7:40 am, John_H wrote:
>>> lindsay wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to all who replied....
>>>>
>>>> On 7/02/2022 9:10 am, John_H wrote:
>>>>> lindsay wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was thinking of grabbing a couple of empty, clean 200l acetone drums,
>>>>>> and filling them with diesel for the tractor. As it's a new tractor, i
>>>>>> was wondering if diesel stabiliser is worth it?, does it work?, and will
>>>>>> it create issues? Void the warranty? what happens if it's getting on in
>>>>>> time? (15 months old?, Not sure I'd use 400-600litres of diesel in 12
>>>>>> months...although it's a possibility.. a tank (60l) a month?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you get it from a servo that cares about hygiene it's probably
>>>>> already been treated as the diesel bug is an issue with underground
>>>>> storage tanks. In any case 200 litre drums are a hassle to handle and
>>>>> for 60 litre/month your best option might be two or three 20 litre
>>>>> plastic jerry cans which are cleaner than steel as well as not needing
>>>>> a pump which can be another source of contamination.
>>>>
>>>> I already have a new rotary hand pump for 200l drums, and I was trying
>>>> to get away from plastic fuel drums, esp in summer... 20l drums are
>>>> easier to transport, but the filler cap is on top of the engine cowl.
>>>> bit of a pain to fill from 20l drums...
>>>
>>> Think you'll find plastic containers are preferred over steel for
>>> diesel but it's probably a good idea to avoid the cheapies. Last time
>>> I looked BCF had the best ones. They also come in 10 litre if you
>>> need something easier to handle. I'd also be very surprised if your
>>> tractor doesn't have a plastic tank.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Is your tractor US tier 4 compliant (under Australian law it isn't
>>>>> mandatory but many are)?
>>>>
>>>> yep i believe this is whats in mine:
>>>> https://kubota.com.au/product/v2403-m-t/
>>>>
>>>>> If it is there are issues you might need to
>>>>> be aware of.
>>>>
>>>> So dont keep me in suspenders...??? Emmisions issues?? dealer says it
>>>> doesnt require adblue, and doesnt have a DPF so maybe it's not tier 4..?
>>>
>>> Maybe a smalliish engine can meet tier 4 without either and If it
>>> doesn't have a DPF then you shouldn't have an issue. DPF equipped
>>> engines (cars included) don't like being lightly loaded for extended
>>> periods which is something that especially needs to be avoided with a
>>> tractor for the DPF to purge. Consequently some manufacturers are
>>> still importing tier 3 machines.
>>
>> No DPF.. Quiet, comfortable, cruise control, everything the Deutz is
>> not. Dropped the 650kg counterweight, (tyres full of water) hooked the
>> slasher up to it, and away we go. Got a decent (25-30 ft firebreak
>> sorted). 50L fuel tank, and yes, I believe it's a plastic tank. Didnt
>> really have time to go over it, and the paperwork/manuals are at work.
>> Not even sure if it has a 12v cig socket on the dash!
>
> Who put water in the tyres?

the dealer....
>
> Unless you have a ballast problem, which is unlikely if you're not
> using it for drawbar work (ie tillage), the practice is best avoided.
> In any case it's much better to use weights when needed. I'm also
> surprised that anyone puts water in tractor tyres these days,
> especially radials, as all it ever achieves is to save the cost of
> ballast weights.

No drawbar work here. It came with a 650kg counterweight, which has been
dropped, and a 400kg? slasher (5' cut, 10mm blades?, body made from 6mm
plate) is currently fitted.... perhaps permanently, depending on the
cost of a FEL skid steer mounted wood splitter. The 4-in-1 bucket will
get some work filling (or attempting to) wombat holes, and the skid
steer mounted tree puller (currently on order) will remove the manuka
that protects the wombat burrows.
>
> Several reasons (google would probably find plenty more) the main ones
> being.....
>
> 1) Overfilling will stuff the tyres, especially radials. Underfilling
> also creates problems
>
> 2) Assuming it's got tubeless tyres (most do) unless the water has
> inhibitor added the rims will rust.

I reckon I'll be dead before that becomes an issue.
>
> 3) If you need to remove a wheel for any reason they're difficult to
> handle with water in them.

remember that well when the Deutz rear tyre got some old fencing wire
through it...
>
> Although time consuming and messy it's not particularly difficult to
> get the water out but you do need a special fitting, and an air
> compressor, to get it all out (the fitting is easily made). If the
> dealer put it there it I'd be asking them to remove it.

6 year warranty. Again, its here, and they did it. I didnt ask them to
fill the tyres with water, but it seems a very popular thing to do.
Their problem if something goes wrong.
>
> Assuming yours is FWA (front wheel assist)

4 wheel drive...

it's also worthwhile
> checking the lead on the front tyres as it's not unusual for it to be
> incorrect on new machines (I'd also be surprised if water doesn't
> affect it although I've never checked a tractor with water in the
> tyres)....
> https://www.firestone-agriculture.eu/blog/5-things-to-know-about-your-tractors-lead-ratio
>
> Mention lead to a tyre dealer and most of them won't know what you're
> talking about but it's a very important part of setting up a tractor
> correctly.
>
>> Will be sticking with plastic jerry cans for diesel. Pain in the arse
>> when the tank cap is 6 foot off the ground...
>

Re: Diesel additives...

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Subject: Re: Diesel additives...
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 by: lindsay - Sun, 20 Feb 2022 06:50 UTC

On 20/02/2022 10:46 am, keithr0 wrote:
> On 18/02/2022 5:30 pm, lindsay wrote:
>
>> In my case, it just keeps getting better. Apparently, once the factory
>> is sold, there's whats called "retained earnings", which will provide
>> me a 6 figure sum spread over the next few years. I no complain. :-)
>> Also planning for the future of cruising in retirement.. just booked
>> our 3rd trip to the pacific islands, and have the finger hovering on a
>> couple of others...
>
> We've got 3 booked, the first is just a little iffy, it leaves from
> clockyville in August and goes around Norway, Iceland, and Scotland.
> Hopefully Europe will have settled a bit by then, and Australian
> vaccination certificates will be recognised there.
>
> Then the is one around New Zealand over Xmas and new year, should be no
> problem. Lastly, a year in April, Sydney to Hawaii, via Fiji and
> American Samoa, returning via Tahiti and New Zealand.

Show-off. :-)

my/our next is the Australia day 4 day cruise, from Melburg to Sydney in
Jan, 2023. they keep cancelling it and rebooking it next year. currently
have $700 on board credit, which will do the drinks for the 3 of us,
unless i get turfed off for impersonating Captain Cook as we enter
Sydney Harbour. :-D
Just waiting to hear from P&O regarding th sleeping arangements for 3
adults in a mini suite on Pacific Encounter. As it's new to Aus waters,
no-one can give me a correct answer. Yet.

Also contemplating the total eclipse cruise from Freo.
https://www.pocruises.com.au/cruises/solar-eclipse/x320?gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=CjwKCAiAx8KQBhAGEiwAD3EiP__iOXRtpn86AE5bbc4d4D0FQb3qiE0zGrV9PmPpIj--SG2bM6WqzRoCJBUQAvD_BwE

I remember the eclipse in Melbourne in '76... to see another would be
very special.

Re: Diesel additives...

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Diesel additives...
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2022 17:56:21 +1100
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 by: Daryl - Sun, 20 Feb 2022 06:56 UTC

On 20/2/2022 10:16 am, John_H wrote:
> Daryl wrote:
>> On 19/2/22 9:47 am, John_H wrote:
>>> lindsay wrote:
>>>>
>>>> No DPF.. Quiet, comfortable, cruise control, everything the Deutz is
>>>> not. Dropped the 650kg counterweight, (tyres full of water) hooked the
>>>> slasher up to it, and away we go. Got a decent (25-30 ft firebreak
>>>> sorted). 50L fuel tank, and yes, I believe it's a plastic tank. Didnt
>>>> really have time to go over it, and the paperwork/manuals are at work.
>>>> Not even sure if it has a 12v cig socket on the dash!
>>>
>>> Who put water in the tyres?
>>>
>>> Unless you have a ballast problem, which is unlikely if you're not
>>> using it for drawbar work (ie tillage), the practice is best avoided.
>>> In any case it's much better to use weights when needed. I'm also
>>> surprised that anyone puts water in tractor tyres these days,
>>> especially radials, as all it ever achieves is to save the cost of
>>> ballast weights.
>>
>> I never really liked the idea of water in tyres but it used to be a
>> common practice when I worked on tractors, no doubt things have moved on
>> since then.
>
> Radial tyres especially (which have become pretty much standard) since
> their tractive efficiency (the percentage of power they can put on the
> ground) is substantially reduced with water in them. Even though it
> used to be common practice in the days of cross ply tyres it's
> generally frowned upon nowadays for other reasons as well....
> https://www.hcvc.com.au/forum/oldjunk/8363-don-t-water-tyres-interesting

There was talk about radial tractors tyres back in the early 80's but
they were few and far between, now they appear to be the norm.

--
Daryl

Re: Diesel additives...

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Subject: Re: Diesel additives...
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 by: lindsay - Sun, 20 Feb 2022 06:58 UTC

On 20/02/2022 10:53 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 20/02/2022 10:16 am, John_H wrote:
>> Daryl wrote:
>
>>> Difficult and possibly very dangerous, easy to be crushed by a very
>>> heavy wheel and tyre.
>>
>> It occurs to me that Lindsay has a FEL attachment which probably
>> requires ballasting the rear but a far better way to do it is to put a
>> weight on the TPL that can easily be dropped off when it isn't needed
>> (an old engine block would probably do).
>
> I don't know what Lindsay has planned for his three point linkage, but
> mine has a tow bar on it for most of the time which would make using
> weights a bit of a pain.

Me? Slasher 400KG? 90% of the time, wood splitter, maybe one day a year..?
>
>> He also needs to be aware that lifting heavy loads with the bucket can
>> be pretty hard on the
>> steering components of a small tractor.
>
> Indeed. My tractor is fairly small and probably the next size down from
> Lindsay's. It only has a quarter meter bucket with a 250kg SWL but
> that's enough for it to be hard on the steering. It's already stuffed a
> steering arm once that I had to make a replacement for.

Mine has (I believe) a 850kg capacity bucket, 5'5" wide. (paperwork is
at work..) Whatever Kubota says fits up to the FEL.
>
>>> Do late model FWA tractors not have a centre diff?
>>
>> They certainly don't but most have provision to lock the rear diff
>> which isn't meant to be used when working under load but can be useful
>> for moving the tractor about in boggy conditions.
>
> Not just boggy conditions.
>
> I spent a few days last week spreading 14 tonnes of 20mm Tuscan Stone
> over my driveway as it was long overdue for some maintenance, and with a
> full bucket the rear wheels get little purchase. I don't have rough
> ground here, but the 4wd is needed to get the thing moving when picking
> up a bucket load, or digging into a pile that needs aerating.
>
>
>
>

Re: Diesel additives...

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Diesel additives...
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2022 18:10:23 +1100
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 by: Daryl - Sun, 20 Feb 2022 07:10 UTC

On 20/2/2022 1:10 pm, John_H wrote:
> Noddy wrote:
>> On 20/02/2022 10:16 am, John_H wrote:
>>> Daryl wrote:
>>
>>>> Do late model FWA tractors not have a centre diff?
>>>
>>> They certainly don't but most have provision to lock the rear diff
>>> which isn't meant to be used when working under load but can be useful
>>> for moving the tractor about in boggy conditions.
>>
>> Not just boggy conditions.
>>
>> I spent a few days last week spreading 14 tonnes of 20mm Tuscan Stone
>> over my driveway as it was long overdue for some maintenance, and with a
>> full bucket the rear wheels get little purchase. I don't have rough
>> ground here, but the 4wd is needed to get the thing moving when picking
>> up a bucket load, or digging into a pile that needs aerating.
>
> You seem to be confusing diff lock with 4WD!
>
> 4WD is for maximising tractive efficiency when working under load,
> which includes digging into a pile with the FEL. You shouldn't need
> to use the diff lock under those conditions if the tractor is properly
> ballasted and it will certainly be able to push a lot harder if it is.
>
> Diff lock is only meant for very occasional use. A lot of early FWA's
> had a button on the floor the operator needed to keep their foot on to
> maintain lock so it couldn't be permanently engaged (Daryl is probably
> familiar with the Ford TW series which worked that way).
>

My memory isn't that good, spent plenty of time driving and working Ford
TW tractors but it was about 40yrs ago.
I remember doing the service school for dealer mechanics in Dalby and
surrounds when the TW's were released, my boss got good reports on my
teaching but I was actually a crap teacher, all the mechanics loved the
large qualities of free beer and food I paid for:-)
Still got my large TW20 model sitting on the shelf in my study, very
well made, my 2 grand kids haven't managed to break it:-)

--
Daryl

Re: Diesel additives...

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Diesel additives...
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2022 18:17:46 +1100
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 by: Daryl - Sun, 20 Feb 2022 07:17 UTC

On 20/2/2022 5:15 pm, lindsay wrote:
> On 18/02/2022 9:35 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 18/2/22 6:30 pm, lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> Accountant didnt blink an eye when I suggested i'd be taking my mig
>>> welder, and a crate full of cordless tools (some of which I havent
>>> purchased yet) with me. I did ask about a new shotgun. He asked
>>> "why?" I replied "security!": he baulked at that..  Sook. :-) The
>>> electric forklift may need a new set of Lithium Iron Phosphate
>>> batteries too.... :-)
>>>
>> LOL, when we closed up the cleaning business most of the smaller items
>> were sold for cash all of it going straight in my pocket:-)
>> Accountant didn't seem to think that that was a bad idea:-)
>
> Already warned the missus that all her handcraft crap out in the shed is
> going. I have a deal with the driver of the waste truck that turns up
> every 4 weeks.... half a dozen stubbies to empty a 1.5 cubic metre
> dumpster. I can fit an aweful lot of wool and other assorted shit in
> there. When i sms him out of sequence, it's $50 a pickup next day. Big
> deal!!!
>
> Seriously, it's astonishing how much crap/unwanted stuff is in there,
> and how much I wont chuck out.. like metal drop saws, 2.5hp box air con,
> shelving, pallet racking... old moulds for a canoe, ponds, dingy's, boat
> jet unit.... my neighbours call my storeroom "Bunnings"for good
> reason... Already taken the diamond saw to some old moulds...
>
> Then there's the forklift, pallet racking, 2 tonne elec hoist, 5 x
> chemical cabinets...slings and chains... trestles, dollies, air tools...
> shit everywhere... and then my customers moulds which may be returned to
> him, depending on circumstances... :-)
>
> Still, cant wait. Will need to buy some ancillaries beforehand, (12
> tubes of Castrol grease for the er, forklift,...  on special at total
> tools for $10 per 450g tube if you buy a dozen!
>
> What other neighbours have done when moving out, is just put what they
> dont want/cant sell out the front of the joint, and it disappears
> overnight. I'll wait to see how things go. :-)

Think carefully when you get rid of things, one thing I got rid that
later I wish I hadn't was a small walk behind floor scrubber, great for
giving the garage floor a good scrub.
I said to my wife recently that the only thing I miss about the cleaning
business is some of the machines, not that I have much use for any of
them but I enjoyed using and maintaining them:-)

--
Daryl

Re: Diesel additives...

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From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Diesel additives...
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2022 20:41:23 +1100
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 by: Noddy - Sun, 20 Feb 2022 09:41 UTC

On 20/02/2022 5:58 pm, lindsay wrote:
> On 20/02/2022 10:53 am, Noddy wrote:
>> On 20/02/2022 10:16 am, John_H wrote:
>>> Daryl wrote:
>>
>>>> Difficult and possibly very dangerous, easy to be crushed by a very
>>>> heavy wheel and tyre.
>>>
>>> It occurs to me that Lindsay has a FEL attachment which probably
>>> requires ballasting the rear but a far better way to do it is to put a
>>> weight on the TPL that can easily be dropped off when it isn't needed
>>> (an old engine block would probably do).
>>
>> I don't know what Lindsay has planned for his three point linkage, but
>> mine has a tow bar on it for most of the time which would make using
>> weights a bit of a pain.
>
> Me? Slasher 400KG? 90% of the time, wood splitter, maybe one day a year..?

Watch out that the splitter doesn't throw the wood at you.

>> Indeed. My tractor is fairly small and probably the next size down
>> from Lindsay's. It only has a quarter meter bucket with a 250kg SWL
>> but that's enough for it to be hard on the steering. It's already
>> stuffed a steering arm once that I had to make a replacement for.
>
> Mine has (I believe) a 850kg capacity bucket, 5'5" wide. (paperwork is
> at work..) Whatever Kubota says fits up to the FEL.

Should be a very useful tool indeed.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: Diesel additives...

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From: john4...@hotmail.com (John_H)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Diesel additives...
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 13:06:36 +1000
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 by: John_H - Tue, 22 Feb 2022 03:06 UTC

lindsay wrote:
>On 19/02/2022 9:47 am, John_H wrote:
>
>> Assuming yours is FWA (front wheel assist)
>
>4 wheel drive...

The correct tractor terminology is FWA.

Just as in car speak AWD and 4WD are two different things (to most
people), in tractor peak FWA and 4WD imply two vastly different
things.

As opposed to car terminology FWA tractors are part time all wheel
drive whereas 4WD tractors are full time all wheel drive. The obvious
difference is that 4WDs have equal sized tyres and FWAs have smaller
front wheels (they used to be called mechanical front wheel drive).
Under those definitions Kubota don't manufacture 4WD tractors.

They also operate under completely different principles which you need
to be aware of if you want to get the best out of yours performance
wise. Water in the tyres of an FWA is a very definite no no and the
reason why they normally leave the factory with weights.

If the dealer's put water in the tyres and kept the factory weight
(which is expensive to replace) you've definitely been had... as a
complaint direct to Kubota ought confirm. It will also affect the
resale value as well as performance.

--
John H

Re: Diesel additives...

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 by: lindsay - Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:37 UTC

On 22/02/2022 2:06 pm, John_H wrote:
> lindsay wrote:
>> On 19/02/2022 9:47 am, John_H wrote:
>>
>>> Assuming yours is FWA (front wheel assist)
>>
>> 4 wheel drive...
>
> The correct tractor terminology is FWA.

I'm only going by what the Kubota blurb has to say. They call it 4wd
multiple times on their website, and in their pdf.

https://kubota.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/MX5200-Brochure.pdf

> Just as in car speak AWD and 4WD are two different things (to most
> people), in tractor peak FWA and 4WD imply two vastly different
> things.
>
> As opposed to car terminology FWA tractors are part time all wheel
> drive whereas 4WD tractors are full time all wheel drive. The obvious
> difference is that 4WDs have equal sized tyres and FWAs have smaller
> front wheels (they used to be called mechanical front wheel drive).
> Under those definitions Kubota don't manufacture 4WD tractors.

I know the old Deutz dropped into a massive wombat burrow, (1st time!)
the entrance hidden by Manuka and tall grass, and as I attempted to stop
the pto, push the clutch and everything else, it simply chugged it's way
out and kept on going once the revs picked up. It was a 4wd (as
tractors.com call it). If the Kubota does the same, i'm happy enough,
but it has a electric pto switch, and once we clear the paddock of
manuka shrubs, then it'll be so much easier to keep it clean. We'll be
able to see where the wombats have dug, and fill 'em with the bucket.
>
> They also operate under completely different principles which you need
> to be aware of if you want to get the best out of yours performance
> wise. Water in the tyres of an FWA is a very definite no no and the
> reason why they normally leave the factory with weights.
>
> If the dealer's put water in the tyres and kept the factory weight
> (which is expensive to replace) you've definitely been had...

Are you referring to a "counterweight" attached to the 3PL? ? If so,
I've already mentioned it came with a 650kg counterweight, which we've
dropped off, and hooked up the 400KG slasher in it's place... Which will
probably be how it goes for the forseeable future.... the FEL, 4in1
bucket and tree puller will see the work. The slasher on the 3pl? 15
hours a year? All depends on time.....

as a
> complaint direct to Kubota ought confirm. It will also affect the
> resale value as well as performance.
>

Re: Diesel additives...

<4a8d1h5fj9ot27n31enposfs688em8e0o2@4ax.com>

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From: john4...@hotmail.com (John_H)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Diesel additives...
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2022 08:21:27 +1000
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 by: John_H - Wed, 23 Feb 2022 22:21 UTC

lindsay wrote:
>On 22/02/2022 2:06 pm, John_H wrote:
>> lindsay wrote:
>>> On 19/02/2022 9:47 am, John_H wrote:
>>>
>>>> Assuming yours is FWA (front wheel assist)
>>>
>>> 4 wheel drive...
>>
>> The correct tractor terminology is FWA.
>
>I'm only going by what the Kubota blurb has to say. They call it 4wd
>multiple times on their website, and in their pdf.
>
>https://kubota.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/MX5200-Brochure.pdf

Had they mentioned FWA or MFWD (which are the same thing) you and
plenty of others would probably have said WTF. Consequently any
mention of 4wd (in lower case) refers to when the front axle is
engaged, which doesn' t make it a 4WD in tractor terminology although
plenty of folk probably don't know the difference, same as those who
think AWD and 4WD cars are the same thing (which hopefully isn't
anyone here). University of Nebraska is the leading authority on
tractor related matters and since 1920 all models sold in the US are
required by law to go through their testing facilities. You can
easily search their data base and yours should be listed if it's
available in USA and it will be classified FWA since Kubota have only
ever made 2WD and FWA tractors....
https://tractortestlab.unl.edu/test-page-nttl

>> Just as in car speak AWD and 4WD are two different things (to most
>> people), in tractor peak FWA and 4WD imply two vastly different
>> things.
>>
>> As opposed to car terminology FWA tractors are part time all wheel
>> drive whereas 4WD tractors are full time all wheel drive. The obvious
>> difference is that 4WDs have equal sized tyres and FWAs have smaller
>> front wheels (they used to be called mechanical front wheel drive).
>> Under those definitions Kubota don't manufacture 4WD tractors.
>
>I know the old Deutz dropped into a massive wombat burrow, (1st time!)
>the entrance hidden by Manuka and tall grass, and as I attempted to stop
>the pto, push the clutch and everything else, it simply chugged it's way
>out and kept on going once the revs picked up. It was a 4wd (as
>tractors.com call it). If the Kubota does the same, i'm happy enough,
>but it has a electric pto switch, and once we clear the paddock of
>manuka shrubs, then it'll be so much easier to keep it clean. We'll be
>able to see where the wombats have dug, and fill 'em with the bucket.

FWIW you shouldn't be operating in 4wd (front axle engaged) for low
draft applications such as slashing for reasons too complex to fully
explain here except to say one of the advantages of FWA is that they
can operate at relatively high speed (by tractor standards) on hard
surfaces whereas 4WD's can't without the high risk of breaking
something (same as cars). To operate correctly in 4wd requires wheel
slip to avoid undo stress on transmission components which will only
occur under relatively high loads at low speeds. Diff lock is what's
meant to be used in the situation you describe (assuming yours has
it).

>> They also operate under completely different principles which you need
>> to be aware of if you want to get the best out of yours performance
>> wise. Water in the tyres of an FWA is a very definite no no and the
>> reason why they normally leave the factory with weights.
>>
>> If the dealer's put water in the tyres and kept the factory weight
>> (which is expensive to replace) you've definitely been had...
>
>Are you referring to a "counterweight" attached to the 3PL? ? If so,
>I've already mentioned it came with a 650kg counterweight, which we've
>dropped off, and hooked up the 400KG slasher in it's place... Which will
>probably be how it goes for the forseeable future.... the FEL, 4in1
>bucket and tree puller will see the work. The slasher on the 3pl? 15
>hours a year? All depends on time....

Not being familiar with your particular model I'd assumed you were
referring to a ballast weight which would normally come as standard on
FWA tractors intended for draft applications although they may be an
accessory in your case. The penny has since dropped that your FEL
attachment is also Kubota in which case the weight that attaches to
the TPL will be part of the FEL. What you're meant to do when using
the slasher is to drop off both the weight and the FEL (which should
be dead easy to do). If the instruction manual doesn't make that
clear it might be worth a call to Kubota themselves who almost
certainly won't like the idea of having water in the tyres which may
even void the warranty if something happens to break. (Irrespective
of what the dealer may have told you the dealer doesn't carry the
warranty, it's Kubota who have the final say.)

If the tractor were only ever used as a FEL at low speeds water
probably wouldn't be a major issue but it will seriously affect the
tractor's performance in other areas.

--
John H

Re: Diesel additives...

<d7GRJ.24031$0vE9.23649@fx17.iad>

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Subject: Re: Diesel additives...
Newsgroups: aus.cars
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From: nop...@nunnya.business.com.au (lindsay)
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 by: lindsay - Thu, 24 Feb 2022 07:05 UTC

On 24/02/2022 9:21 am, John_H wrote:
> lindsay wrote:
>> On 22/02/2022 2:06 pm, John_H wrote:
>>> lindsay wrote:
>>>> On 19/02/2022 9:47 am, John_H wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Assuming yours is FWA (front wheel assist)
>>>>
>>>> 4 wheel drive...
>>>
>>> The correct tractor terminology is FWA.
>>
>> I'm only going by what the Kubota blurb has to say. They call it 4wd
>> multiple times on their website, and in their pdf.
>>
>> https://kubota.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/MX5200-Brochure.pdf
>
> Had they mentioned FWA or MFWD (which are the same thing) you and
> plenty of others would probably have said WTF. Consequently any
> mention of 4wd (in lower case) refers to when the front axle is
> engaged, which doesn' t make it a 4WD in tractor terminology although
> plenty of folk probably don't know the difference, same as those who
> think AWD and 4WD cars are the same thing (which hopefully isn't
> anyone here). University of Nebraska is the leading authority on
> tractor related matters and since 1920 all models sold in the US are
> required by law to go through their testing facilities. You can
> easily search their data base and yours should be listed if it's
> available in USA and it will be classified FWA since Kubota have only
> ever made 2WD and FWA tractors....
> https://tractortestlab.unl.edu/test-page-nttl
>
>>> Just as in car speak AWD and 4WD are two different things (to most
>>> people), in tractor peak FWA and 4WD imply two vastly different
>>> things.
>>>
>>> As opposed to car terminology FWA tractors are part time all wheel
>>> drive whereas 4WD tractors are full time all wheel drive. The obvious
>>> difference is that 4WDs have equal sized tyres and FWAs have smaller
>>> front wheels (they used to be called mechanical front wheel drive).
>>> Under those definitions Kubota don't manufacture 4WD tractors.
>>
>> I know the old Deutz dropped into a massive wombat burrow, (1st time!)
>> the entrance hidden by Manuka and tall grass, and as I attempted to stop
>> the pto, push the clutch and everything else, it simply chugged it's way
>> out and kept on going once the revs picked up. It was a 4wd (as
>> tractors.com call it). If the Kubota does the same, i'm happy enough,
>> but it has a electric pto switch, and once we clear the paddock of
>> manuka shrubs, then it'll be so much easier to keep it clean. We'll be
>> able to see where the wombats have dug, and fill 'em with the bucket.
>
> FWIW you shouldn't be operating in 4wd (front axle engaged) for low
> draft applications such as slashing for reasons too complex to fully
> explain here except to say one of the advantages of FWA is that they
> can operate at relatively high speed (by tractor standards) on hard
> surfaces whereas 4WD's can't without the high risk of breaking
> something (same as cars). To operate correctly in 4wd requires wheel
> slip to avoid undo stress on transmission components which will only
> occur under relatively high loads at low speeds. Diff lock is what's
> meant to be used in the situation you describe (assuming yours has
> it).

It does.

>
>>> They also operate under completely different principles which you need
>>> to be aware of if you want to get the best out of yours performance
>>> wise. Water in the tyres of an FWA is a very definite no no and the
>>> reason why they normally leave the factory with weights.
>>>
>>> If the dealer's put water in the tyres and kept the factory weight
>>> (which is expensive to replace) you've definitely been had...
>>
>> Are you referring to a "counterweight" attached to the 3PL? ? If so,
>> I've already mentioned it came with a 650kg counterweight, which we've
>> dropped off, and hooked up the 400KG slasher in it's place... Which will
>> probably be how it goes for the forseeable future.... the FEL, 4in1
>> bucket and tree puller will see the work. The slasher on the 3pl? 15
>> hours a year? All depends on time....
>
> Not being familiar with your particular model I'd assumed you were
> referring to a ballast weight which would normally come as standard on
> FWA tractors intended for draft applications although they may be an
> accessory in your case. The penny has since dropped that your FEL
> attachment is also Kubota in which case the weight that attaches to
> the TPL will be part of the FEL. What you're meant to do when using
> the slasher is to drop off both the weight and the FEL (which should
> be dead easy to do). If the instruction manual doesn't make that
> clear it might be worth a call to Kubota themselves who almost
> certainly won't like the idea of having water in the tyres which may
> even void the warranty if something happens to break. (Irrespective
> of what the dealer may have told you the dealer doesn't carry the
> warranty, it's Kubota who have the final say.)
>
> If the tractor were only ever used as a FEL at low speeds water
> probably wouldn't be a major issue but it will seriously affect the
> tractor's performance in other areas.

I'll have a chat with the dealer when he and the mechanic come out to do
the first service @ 50 hours. Having said that, they are the largest
Kubota AG dealer in west/east gippsland; I told him what I planned to do
with it; and without the knowledge or hindsight, i have to trust him
(egad!) :-) With the limited use so far (2 hours) i'm more than happy
with it. I haven't pushed it, or got into slippery shit yet, but will
have 5 days to sus it out over our Labor Day long weekend... Hopefully
the tree puller will have arrived in time. See how we go...

Cheers....

>

Re: Diesel additives...

<qb1g1h5v8lr8jvds22mvlq82onbin0rc61@4ax.com>

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From: john4...@hotmail.com (John_H)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Diesel additives...
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2022 09:27:57 +1000
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 by: John_H - Thu, 24 Feb 2022 23:27 UTC

lindsay wrote:
>
>I'll have a chat with the dealer when he and the mechanic come out to do
>the first service @ 50 hours. Having said that, they are the largest
>Kubota AG dealer in west/east gippsland; I told him what I planned to do
>with it; and without the knowledge or hindsight, i have to trust him
>(egad!) :-) With the limited use so far (2 hours) i'm more than happy
>with it. I haven't pushed it, or got into slippery shit yet, but will
>have 5 days to sus it out over our Labor Day long weekend... Hopefully
>the tree puller will have arrived in time. See how we go...

Don't assume dealers are experts at setting up tractors!

AFAIK University of Queensland still offers the only agricultural
engineering degree course available in Oz. Back in the 1980s when
high horsepower 4WDs were considered to be the latest in tractor
technology QDPI employed one of its graduates as an extension officer
to show owners how to set up their machines on farm. What soon became
obvious was the advice they were getting from their dealers (and some
manufacturers) was up to shit.

Consequently QDPI organised a field day (which I drove several hundred
km's to attend) where participating machinery would be tested under
operating conditions. Naturally all the dealers turned up hoping to
demonstrate that their tractor was the best. As it turned out most of
them never had a clue and a local cocky who knew what he was about
(and who probably had help from the DPI) pissed all over the lot of
them.

As a relative newcomer to the industry at the time it was a lesson I
haven't forgotten. (Unfortunately since the days of Joh the
department no longer provides an extension service.)

--
John H

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