On 28/02/2022 12:38 pm, Peter Jason wrote:

> My dear old uncle was so convinced.

Your dear old uncle had no idea.

> He said it prevented any trace of pre-ignition.

Yep. Definitely had absolutely no idea.

> Indeed I once had an old Volkswagen and it ran better
> in foggy weather.

Really? And what was the relative humidity on that day? :)

> My uncle was so interested there were plans to
> affix a water fogger just before the carburettor. I can't remember
> what happened.

He was committed to an asylum I expect.

Performance output of engines changes with air *density*, in that the
denser the air the more power they make. It's all about volumetric
efficiency, and the amount of air you can pack into the cylinders. When
air density is high, you pack more air into each cylinder creating a
bigger bang and ultimately more power. This is precisely why most cars
run better at night with cooler air temperatures than they do over the
course of the day where the temperatures have been higher.

Humidity has the opposite effect in that the higher the moisture content
of the air the less dense it becomes resulting in a lower than optimum
air volume in each cylinder with a corresponding reduction in power output.

It's not rocket science. Well, for anyone *other* than you and your
uncle apparently. And possibly Felix......

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 28/02/2022 1:51 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 28/02/2022 12:38 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>
>> My dear old uncle was so convinced.
>
> Your dear old uncle had no idea.
>
>> He said it prevented any trace of pre-ignition.
>
> Yep. Definitely had absolutely no idea.
>
>>  Indeed I once had an old Volkswagen and it ran better
>> in foggy weather.
>
> Really? And what was the relative humidity on that day? :)
>
>>  My uncle was so interested there were plans to
>> affix a water fogger just before the carburettor.  I can't remember
>> what happened.
>
> He was committed to an asylum I expect.
>
> Performance output of engines changes with air *density*, in that the
> denser the air the more power they make. It's all about volumetric
> efficiency, and the amount of air you can pack into the cylinders.
> When air density is high, you pack more air into each cylinder
> creating a bigger bang and ultimately more power. This is precisely
> why most cars run better at night with cooler air temperatures than
> they do over the course of the day where the temperatures have been
> higher.
>
> Humidity has the opposite effect in that the higher the moisture
> content of the air the less dense it becomes resulting in a lower than
> optimum air volume in each cylinder with a corresponding reduction in
> power output.
>
> It's not rocket science. Well, for anyone *other* than you and your
> uncle apparently. And possibly Felix......
>
>

that doesn't explain those water injection devices

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam
"His opinions have been crushed into insignificant dust by
the enormous weight of his lies"- Alvey on the Fraudster
"He came, he saw, he got pummelled" - Alvey on Keefy
"His self serving ego pumping comments just
read like witless wankery"- Clocky on Keefy

On 28/02/2022 11:50 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 28/02/2022 1:51 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 28/02/2022 12:38 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>>
>>> My dear old uncle was so convinced.
>>
>> Your dear old uncle had no idea.
>>
>>> He said it prevented any trace of pre-ignition.
>>
>> Yep. Definitely had absolutely no idea.
>>
>>>  Indeed I once had an old Volkswagen and it ran better
>>> in foggy weather.
>>
>> Really? And what was the relative humidity on that day? :)
>>
>>>  My uncle was so interested there were plans to
>>> affix a water fogger just before the carburettor.  I can't remember
>>> what happened.
>>
>> He was committed to an asylum I expect.
>>
>> Performance output of engines changes with air *density*, in that the
>> denser the air the more power they make. It's all about volumetric
>> efficiency, and the amount of air you can pack into the cylinders.
>> When air density is high, you pack more air into each cylinder
>> creating a bigger bang and ultimately more power. This is precisely
>> why most cars run better at night with cooler air temperatures than
>> they do over the course of the day where the temperatures have been
>> higher.
>>
>> Humidity has the opposite effect in that the higher the moisture
>> content of the air the less dense it becomes resulting in a lower than
>> optimum air volume in each cylinder with a corresponding reduction in
>> power output.
>>
>> It's not rocket science. Well, for anyone *other* than you and your
>> uncle apparently. And possibly Felix......
>>
>>
>
> that doesn't explain those water injection devices
>
>

Whilst he grasps some of the most basic concepts, It's sciency stuff
well beyond the pay grade of some uneducable unqualified loser who
couldn't finish year 9 :-) He doesn't consider how water can be used to
increase air density, what impact it has in ignition and how that can be
used to advantage in terms of compression or boost. Nor does he consider
the thermal expansion characteristics of moisture in air when it is heated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhShcJZ3JAk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWFztpnQuPA

etc...

--
keith on the 7 Oct 2021 wrote;
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if
it is unproven, he is lying."

On 28/02/2022 3:20 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 28/02/2022 11:50 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> On 28/02/2022 1:51 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 28/02/2022 12:38 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>
>>>> My dear old uncle was so convinced.
>>>
>>> Your dear old uncle had no idea.
>>>
>>>> He said it prevented any trace of pre-ignition.
>>>
>>> Yep. Definitely had absolutely no idea.
>>>
>>>>  Indeed I once had an old Volkswagen and it ran better
>>>> in foggy weather.
>>>
>>> Really? And what was the relative humidity on that day? :)
>>>
>>>>  My uncle was so interested there were plans to
>>>> affix a water fogger just before the carburettor.  I can't remember
>>>> what happened.
>>>
>>> He was committed to an asylum I expect.
>>>
>>> Performance output of engines changes with air *density*, in that
>>> the denser the air the more power they make. It's all about
>>> volumetric efficiency, and the amount of air you can pack into the
>>> cylinders. When air density is high, you pack more air into each
>>> cylinder creating a bigger bang and ultimately more power. This is
>>> precisely why most cars run better at night with cooler air
>>> temperatures than they do over the course of the day where the
>>> temperatures have been higher.
>>>
>>> Humidity has the opposite effect in that the higher the moisture
>>> content of the air the less dense it becomes resulting in a lower
>>> than optimum air volume in each cylinder with a corresponding
>>> reduction in power output.
>>>
>>> It's not rocket science. Well, for anyone *other* than you and your
>>> uncle apparently. And possibly Felix......

and you it seems. see below...

>>>
>>>
>>
>> that doesn't explain those water injection devices
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Whilst he grasps some  of the most basic concepts, It's sciency stuff
> well beyond the pay grade of some uneducable unqualified loser who
> couldn't finish year 9 :-) He doesn't consider how water can be used
> to increase air density, what impact it has in ignition and how that
> can be used to advantage in terms of compression or boost. Nor does he
> consider the thermal expansion characteristics of moisture in air when
> it is heated.

yes I thought water vapor (can) increase air density, and also water
vapor burns when in the cylinder, iirc.

>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhShcJZ3JAk
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWFztpnQuPA
>
> etc...
>

i'll watch those

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam
"His opinions have been crushed into insignificant dust by
the enormous weight of his lies"- Alvey on the Fraudster
"He came, he saw, he got pummelled" - Alvey on Keefy
"His self serving ego pumping comments just
read like witless wankery"- Clocky on Keefy

On 28/02/2022 3:09 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 28/02/2022 3:20 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 28/02/2022 11:50 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> On 28/02/2022 1:51 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>> On 28/02/2022 12:38 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My dear old uncle was so convinced.
>>>>
>>>> Your dear old uncle had no idea.
>>>>
>>>>> He said it prevented any trace of pre-ignition.
>>>>
>>>> Yep. Definitely had absolutely no idea.
>>>>
>>>>>  Indeed I once had an old Volkswagen and it ran better
>>>>> in foggy weather.
>>>>
>>>> Really? And what was the relative humidity on that day? :)
>>>>
>>>>>  My uncle was so interested there were plans to
>>>>> affix a water fogger just before the carburettor.  I can't remember
>>>>> what happened.
>>>>
>>>> He was committed to an asylum I expect.
>>>>
>>>> Performance output of engines changes with air *density*, in that
>>>> the denser the air the more power they make. It's all about
>>>> volumetric efficiency, and the amount of air you can pack into the
>>>> cylinders. When air density is high, you pack more air into each
>>>> cylinder creating a bigger bang and ultimately more power. This is
>>>> precisely why most cars run better at night with cooler air
>>>> temperatures than they do over the course of the day where the
>>>> temperatures have been higher.
>>>>
>>>> Humidity has the opposite effect in that the higher the moisture
>>>> content of the air the less dense it becomes resulting in a lower
>>>> than optimum air volume in each cylinder with a corresponding
>>>> reduction in power output.
>>>>
>>>> It's not rocket science. Well, for anyone *other* than you and your
>>>> uncle apparently. And possibly Felix......
>
>
> and you it seems. see below...
>
>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> that doesn't explain those water injection devices
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Whilst he grasps some  of the most basic concepts, It's sciency stuff
>> well beyond the pay grade of some uneducable unqualified loser who
>> couldn't finish year 9 :-) He doesn't consider how water can be used
>> to increase air density, what impact it has in ignition and how that
>> can be used to advantage in terms of compression or boost. Nor does he
>> consider the thermal expansion characteristics of moisture in air when
>> it is heated.
>
>
> yes I thought water vapor (can) increase air density, and also water
> vapor burns when in the cylinder, iirc.

Water vapour burns? I'd like to see that.

>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhShcJZ3JAk
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWFztpnQuPA
>>
>> etc...
>>
>
> i'll watch those
>
>

On 28/2/22 14:50, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 28/02/2022 1:51 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 28/02/2022 12:38 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>>
>>> My dear old uncle was so convinced.
>>
>> Your dear old uncle had no idea.
>>
>>> He said it prevented any trace of pre-ignition.
>>
>> Yep. Definitely had absolutely no idea.
>>
>>>  Indeed I once had an old Volkswagen and it ran better
>>> in foggy weather.
>>
>> Really? And what was the relative humidity on that day? :)
>>
>>>  My uncle was so interested there were plans to
>>> affix a water fogger just before the carburettor.  I can't remember
>>> what happened.
>>
>> He was committed to an asylum I expect.
>>
>> Performance output of engines changes with air *density*, in that the
>> denser the air the more power they make. It's all about volumetric
>> efficiency, and the amount of air you can pack into the cylinders.
>> When air density is high, you pack more air into each cylinder
>> creating a bigger bang and ultimately more power. This is precisely
>> why most cars run better at night with cooler air temperatures than
>> they do over the course of the day where the temperatures have been
>> higher.
>>
>> Humidity has the opposite effect in that the higher the moisture
>> content of the air the less dense it becomes resulting in a lower than
>> optimum air volume in each cylinder with a corresponding reduction in
>> power output.
>>
>> It's not rocket science. Well, for anyone *other* than you and your
>> uncle apparently. And possibly Felix......
>>
>>
>
> that doesn't explain those water injection devices
>
>
Latent heat of evaporation. The water evaporates thereby cooling the
incoming air making it more dense. Cars pre-70s had no intake air
temperature maintenance so ran better on cold days due to more dense air.

--
Xeno

On 28/02/2022 4:36 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 28/02/2022 3:09 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> On 28/02/2022 3:20 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 28/02/2022 11:50 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>> On 28/02/2022 1:51 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>> On 28/02/2022 12:38 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> My dear old uncle was so convinced.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your dear old uncle had no idea.
>>>>>
>>>>>> He said it prevented any trace of pre-ignition.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep. Definitely had absolutely no idea.
>>>>>
>>>>>>  Indeed I once had an old Volkswagen and it ran better
>>>>>> in foggy weather.
>>>>>
>>>>> Really? And what was the relative humidity on that day? :)
>>>>>
>>>>>>  My uncle was so interested there were plans to
>>>>>> affix a water fogger just before the carburettor.  I can't remember
>>>>>> what happened.
>>>>>
>>>>> He was committed to an asylum I expect.
>>>>>
>>>>> Performance output of engines changes with air *density*, in that
>>>>> the denser the air the more power they make. It's all about
>>>>> volumetric efficiency, and the amount of air you can pack into the
>>>>> cylinders. When air density is high, you pack more air into each
>>>>> cylinder creating a bigger bang and ultimately more power. This is
>>>>> precisely why most cars run better at night with cooler air
>>>>> temperatures than they do over the course of the day where the
>>>>> temperatures have been higher.
>>>>>
>>>>> Humidity has the opposite effect in that the higher the moisture
>>>>> content of the air the less dense it becomes resulting in a lower
>>>>> than optimum air volume in each cylinder with a corresponding
>>>>> reduction in power output.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not rocket science. Well, for anyone *other* than you and your
>>>>> uncle apparently. And possibly Felix......
>>
>>
>> and you it seems. see below...
>>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> that doesn't explain those water injection devices
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Whilst he grasps some  of the most basic concepts, It's sciency stuff
>>> well beyond the pay grade of some uneducable unqualified loser who
>>> couldn't finish year 9 :-) He doesn't consider how water can be used
>>> to increase air density, what impact it has in ignition and how that
>>> can be used to advantage in terms of compression or boost. Nor does
>>> he consider the thermal expansion characteristics of moisture in air
>>> when it is heated.
>>
>>
>> yes I thought water vapor (can) increase air density, and also water
>> vapor burns when in the cylinder, iirc.
>
> Water vapour burns? I'd like to see that.

Yeah, so would I :)

>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhShcJZ3JAk
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWFztpnQuPA
>>>
>>> etc...
>>>
>>
>> i'll watch those

By all means, watch them Felix. But when you're done, take a crack at
explaining how water/methanol injection systems which exist to prevent
abnormal combustion problems, have anything to do with the claim that
engines run better in humid conditions.

Seriously. Have a go at an explanation. If you get in quick you'll be
able to beat Clasener who's no doubt bursting at the seams to make a
long winded and completely irrelevant post on the subject like he
*always* does.

Still, if you want to educate yourself, then have a read here:

> https://asmedigitalcollection.asme.org/ICEF/proceedings-abstract/ICEF2006/42606/421/318050

And here:

> https://airdensityonline.com/2017/04/water-vapor-horsepower/

And here:

> https://airdensityonline.com/2017/04/water-vapor-horsepower/

And if you want a more technical explanation, here:

> https://asmedigitalcollection.asme.org/gasturbinespower/article/139/5/051501/374501/Effect-of-Ambient-Temperature-and-Humidity-on

Perhaps you could raise these points with the resident "mechanics" and
ask them to explain to you how "wet air" and water injection are two
different things :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 28/2/22 18:05, Noddy wrote:
> On 28/02/2022 4:36 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 28/02/2022 3:09 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> On 28/02/2022 3:20 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 28/02/2022 11:50 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>> On 28/02/2022 1:51 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>> On 28/02/2022 12:38 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My dear old uncle was so convinced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your dear old uncle had no idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He said it prevented any trace of pre-ignition.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yep. Definitely had absolutely no idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Indeed I once had an old Volkswagen and it ran better
>>>>>>> in foggy weather.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Really? And what was the relative humidity on that day? :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  My uncle was so interested there were plans to
>>>>>>> affix a water fogger just before the carburettor.  I can't remember
>>>>>>> what happened.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He was committed to an asylum I expect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Performance output of engines changes with air *density*, in that
>>>>>> the denser the air the more power they make. It's all about
>>>>>> volumetric efficiency, and the amount of air you can pack into the
>>>>>> cylinders. When air density is high, you pack more air into each
>>>>>> cylinder creating a bigger bang and ultimately more power. This is
>>>>>> precisely why most cars run better at night with cooler air
>>>>>> temperatures than they do over the course of the day where the
>>>>>> temperatures have been higher.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Humidity has the opposite effect in that the higher the moisture
>>>>>> content of the air the less dense it becomes resulting in a lower
>>>>>> than optimum air volume in each cylinder with a corresponding
>>>>>> reduction in power output.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not rocket science. Well, for anyone *other* than you and
>>>>>> your uncle apparently. And possibly Felix......
>>>
>>>
>>> and you it seems. see below...
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> that doesn't explain those water injection devices
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Whilst he grasps some  of the most basic concepts, It's sciency
>>>> stuff well beyond the pay grade of some uneducable unqualified loser
>>>> who couldn't finish year 9 :-) He doesn't consider how water can be
>>>> used to increase air density, what impact it has in ignition and how
>>>> that can be used to advantage in terms of compression or boost. Nor
>>>> does he consider the thermal expansion characteristics of moisture
>>>> in air when it is heated.
>>>
>>>
>>> yes I thought water vapor (can) increase air density, and also water
>>> vapor burns when in the cylinder, iirc.
>>
>> Water vapour burns? I'd like to see that.
>
> Yeah, so would I :)
>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhShcJZ3JAk
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWFztpnQuPA
>>>>
>>>> etc...
>>>>
>>>
>>> i'll watch those
>
> By all means, watch them Felix. But when you're done, take a crack at
> explaining how water/methanol injection systems which exist to prevent
> abnormal combustion problems, have anything to do with the claim that
> engines run better in humid conditions.
>
> Seriously. Have a go at an explanation. If you get in quick you'll be
> able to beat Clasener who's no doubt bursting at the seams to make a
> long winded and completely irrelevant post on the subject like he
> *always* does.

Ah Darren, you've done enough Googling for everyone. It's your forte!
>
> Still, if you want to educate yourself, then have a read here:
>
>> https://asmedigitalcollection.asme.org/ICEF/proceedings-abstract/ICEF2006/42606/421/318050
>>
>
> And here:
>
>> https://airdensityonline.com/2017/04/water-vapor-horsepower/
>
> And here:
>
>> https://airdensityonline.com/2017/04/water-vapor-horsepower/
>
> And if you want a more technical explanation, here:
>
>> https://asmedigitalcollection.asme.org/gasturbinespower/article/139/5/051501/374501/Effect-of-Ambient-Temperature-and-Humidity-on
>>
>
> Perhaps you could raise these points with the resident "mechanics" and
> ask them to explain to you how "wet air" and water injection are two
> different things :)

--
Xeno

On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 18:18:50 +1100, Xeno wrote:

> On 28/2/22 18:05, Noddy wrote:
> Ah Darren, you've done enough Googling for everyone. It's your forte!

And when he's been hitting the Google it sticks out as obviously as his Big
Lies.

alvey

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 28/02/2022 3:05 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 28/02/2022 4:36 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 28/02/2022 3:09 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> On 28/02/2022 3:20 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 28/02/2022 11:50 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>> On 28/02/2022 1:51 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>> On 28/02/2022 12:38 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My dear old uncle was so convinced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your dear old uncle had no idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He said it prevented any trace of pre-ignition.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yep. Definitely had absolutely no idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Indeed I once had an old Volkswagen and it ran better
>>>>>>> in foggy weather.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Really? And what was the relative humidity on that day? :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  My uncle was so interested there were plans to
>>>>>>> affix a water fogger just before the carburettor.  I can't remember
>>>>>>> what happened.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He was committed to an asylum I expect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Performance output of engines changes with air *density*, in that
>>>>>> the denser the air the more power they make. It's all about
>>>>>> volumetric efficiency, and the amount of air you can pack into the
>>>>>> cylinders. When air density is high, you pack more air into each
>>>>>> cylinder creating a bigger bang and ultimately more power. This is
>>>>>> precisely why most cars run better at night with cooler air
>>>>>> temperatures than they do over the course of the day where the
>>>>>> temperatures have been higher.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Humidity has the opposite effect in that the higher the moisture
>>>>>> content of the air the less dense it becomes resulting in a lower
>>>>>> than optimum air volume in each cylinder with a corresponding
>>>>>> reduction in power output.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not rocket science. Well, for anyone *other* than you and
>>>>>> your uncle apparently. And possibly Felix......
>>>
>>>
>>> and you it seems. see below...
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> that doesn't explain those water injection devices
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Whilst he grasps some  of the most basic concepts, It's sciency
>>>> stuff well beyond the pay grade of some uneducable unqualified loser
>>>> who couldn't finish year 9 :-) He doesn't consider how water can be
>>>> used to increase air density, what impact it has in ignition and how
>>>> that can be used to advantage in terms of compression or boost. Nor
>>>> does he consider the thermal expansion characteristics of moisture
>>>> in air when it is heated.
>>>
>>>
>>> yes I thought water vapor (can) increase air density, and also water
>>> vapor burns when in the cylinder, iirc.
>>
>> Water vapour burns? I'd like to see that.
>
> Yeah, so would I :)
>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhShcJZ3JAk
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWFztpnQuPA
>>>>
>>>> etc...
>>>>
>>>
>>> i'll watch those
>
> By all means, watch them Felix. But when you're done, take a crack at
> explaining how water/methanol injection systems which exist to prevent
> abnormal combustion problems, have anything to do with the claim that
> engines run better in humid conditions.
>
> Seriously. Have a go at an explanation. If you get in quick you'll be
> able to beat Clasener who's no doubt bursting at the seams to make a
> long winded and completely irrelevant post on the subject like he
> *always* does.
>
> Still, if you want to educate yourself, then have a read here:
>
>> https://asmedigitalcollection.asme.org/ICEF/proceedings-abstract/ICEF2006/42606/421/318050
>>
>
> And here:
>
>> https://airdensityonline.com/2017/04/water-vapor-horsepower/
>
> And here:
>
>> https://airdensityonline.com/2017/04/water-vapor-horsepower/
>
> And if you want a more technical explanation, here:
>
>> https://asmedigitalcollection.asme.org/gasturbinespower/article/139/5/051501/374501/Effect-of-Ambient-Temperature-and-Humidity-on
>>
>
> Perhaps you could raise these points with the resident "mechanics" and
> ask them to explain to you how "wet air" and water injection are two
> different things :)
>

Nice attempt at face-saving, except nobody said they were the same
thing, MaGoogle. The videos I posted explained the difference perfectly
and how water *can* be used to increase power but clearly it's above
*your* level of understanding.

As expected from an uneducable year 9 unqualified flunky :-)

--
keith on the 7 Oct 2021 wrote;
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if
it is unproven, he is lying."

On 1/03/2022 7:38 am, Peter Jason wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 13:51:57 +1100, Noddy <me@home.com> wrote:
>
>> On 28/02/2022 12:38 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>>
>>> My dear old uncle was so convinced.
>>
>> Your dear old uncle had no idea.
>
> He could have shown you a few things....

No doubt he could have shown many people a lot of things. Like how to be
the "Before" poster boy....

>>> Indeed I once had an old Volkswagen and it ran better
>>> in foggy weather.
>>
>> Really? And what was the relative humidity on that day? :)
>
> The windows were fogging up, so I suspect close to 100%

100%? :)

What part of the world do you live in?

>>> My uncle was so interested there were plans to
>>> affix a water fogger just before the carburettor. I can't remember
>>> what happened.
>>
>> He was committed to an asylum I expect.
>
> No he was seeking a suitable one for you, with concrete walls and
> buxom guards with whips.

Ooh, nice.

>> Performance output of engines changes with air *density*, in that the
>> denser the air the more power they make. It's all about volumetric
>> efficiency, and the amount of air you can pack into the cylinders. When
>> air density is high, you pack more air into each cylinder creating a
>> bigger bang and ultimately more power. This is precisely why most cars
>> run better at night with cooler air temperatures than they do over the
>> course of the day where the temperatures have been higher.
>
> Isn't that what I said? You must be a quick learner...perhaps.

No, that's not what you said at all. You said that cars run better in
humid weather which is false.

What you said is the subject line of this threat, you idiot. Try to keep up.

>> Humidity has the opposite effect in that the higher the moisture content
>> of the air the less dense it becomes resulting in a lower than optimum
>> air volume in each cylinder with a corresponding reduction in power output.
>>
>> It's not rocket science. Well, for anyone *other* than you and your
>> uncle apparently. And possibly Felix......
>
> * snort *

Lay off the drugs. They fuck your brain cells, and you're really not
carrying all that many that you want to be losing any....

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 1/3/2022 7:38 am, Peter Jason wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 13:51:57 +1100, Noddy <me@home.com> wrote:
>
>> On 28/02/2022 12:38 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>>
>>> My dear old uncle was so convinced.
>>
>> Your dear old uncle had no idea.
>
> He could have shown you a few things....
>>
>>> He said it prevented any trace of pre-ignition.
>>
>> Yep. Definitely had absolutely no idea.
>
> Like this topic...
>>
>>> Indeed I once had an old Volkswagen and it ran better
>>> in foggy weather.
>>
>> Really? And what was the relative humidity on that day? :)
>
> The windows were fogging up, so I suspect close to 100%
>>
>>> My uncle was so interested there were plans to
>>> affix a water fogger just before the carburettor. I can't remember
>>> what happened.
>>
>> He was committed to an asylum I expect.
>
> No he was seeking a suitable one for you, with concrete walls and
> buxom guards with whips.
>>
>> Performance output of engines changes with air *density*, in that the
>> denser the air the more power they make. It's all about volumetric
>> efficiency, and the amount of air you can pack into the cylinders. When
>> air density is high, you pack more air into each cylinder creating a
>> bigger bang and ultimately more power. This is precisely why most cars
>> run better at night with cooler air temperatures than they do over the
>> course of the day where the temperatures have been higher.
>
> Isn't that what I said?

No, you said cars run better when its foggy.
Humid air is actually less dense than dry air so the reality is a car
engine will run worse not that anyone would notice much difference.
The variable is if the air was cold as well as foggy, its not the fog
that makes the air more dense, its the cold.
See below, I'd believe Isaac Newton before I'd believe your uncle.

"Most people who haven’t studied physics or chemistry find it hard to
believe that humid air is lighter, or less dense, than dry air. How can
the air become lighter if we add water vapor to it?
Scientists have known this for a long time. The first was Isaac Newton,
who stated that humid air is less dense than dry air in 1717 in his
book, Optics. But, other scientists didn’t generally understand this
until later in that century."
https://iflycoast.com/understanding-air-density-and-its-effects/

--
Daryl

On 1/03/2022 12:04 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 09:39:06 +1100, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>

>> "Most people who haven’t studied physics or chemistry find it hard to
>> believe that humid air is lighter, or less dense, than dry air. How can
>> the air become lighter if we add water vapor to it?
>> Scientists have known this for a long time. The first was Isaac Newton,
>> who stated that humid air is less dense than dry air in 1717 in his
>> book, Optics. But, other scientists didn’t generally understand this
>> until later in that century."
>> https://iflycoast.com/understanding-air-density-and-its-effects/
>
>
>
> ...uh, well, the car did run better in the fog and in chilly nights.

That may be so, and it's what would normally be expected. As has been
mentioned, cooler air is denser air, and denser air makes more power all
else being equal. But that's *not* what you claimed. What you claimed
was that *humid* weather makes cars run better, and has been
demonstrated that is *not* the case.

Nothing like a bit of reactive goal-post shifting to try to cover your
ignorant arse, huh? The FLC is going to *luuuurve* you....

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 1/03/2022 12:17 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>
>>
>> yes I thought water vapor (can) increase air density, and also water
>> vapor burns when in the cylinder, iirc.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhShcJZ3JAk
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWFztpnQuPA
>>>
>
> Yeah man!

ROTFL :)

> I knew it. And where's that troll-of-ages Noddy? Lurking in the tall
> grass I'll wager!

I'm right here, wondering what the fuck it was that you reckon you *knew* :)

> Now I expect a cringing, crawl-across-busted-glass,
> sackcloth-and-ashes, palm-nuzzling, lachrymose, whining apology, in
> public, to the brash sound of distant vuvuzelas...
> https://tinyurl.com/yc7p2fst
> Get to it, boy!

Do you now? And why would that be?

You've done nothing here other than to show yourself to be completely
wrong when you started this thread claiming that cars run better in
humid weather, only *now* you've added to that by apparently being
totally incapable of appreciating the difference between the effects on
engine output relative to the degree of humidity, and water/methanol
injection systems used to prevent detonation in boosted engine applications.

I suspect you're not on your Pat Malone there either, which is why the
FLC brings water/meth injection up as if it's in some way relevant to
your initial comments :)

Either way, I'm starting to feel more than a little concerned for Felix,
for if you continue to make completely clueless and totally retarded
posts like this then his title of "Dumbest inbred cuntoxen to ever
inhabit this group in it's entire history" is genuinely under threat.

The competition is about to get serious :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On Tuesday, 1 March 2022 at 12:34:52 UTC+11, Noddy wrote:
> On 1/03/2022 12:17 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> yes I thought water vapor (can) increase air density, and also water
> >> vapor burns when in the cylinder, iirc.
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhShcJZ3JAk
> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWFztpnQuPA
> >>>
> >
> > Yeah man!
> ROTFL :)
> > I knew it. And where's that troll-of-ages Noddy? Lurking in the tall
> > grass I'll wager!
> I'm right here, wondering what the fuck it was that you reckon you *knew* :)
> > Now I expect a cringing, crawl-across-busted-glass,
> > sackcloth-and-ashes, palm-nuzzling, lachrymose, whining apology, in
> > public, to the brash sound of distant vuvuzelas...
> > https://tinyurl.com/yc7p2fst
> > Get to it, boy!
> Do you now? And why would that be?
>
> You've done nothing here other than to show yourself to be completely
> wrong when you started this thread claiming that cars run better in
> humid weather, only *now* you've added to that by apparently being
> totally incapable of appreciating the difference between the effects on
> engine output relative to the degree of humidity, and water/methanol
> injection systems used to prevent detonation in boosted engine applications.
>
> I suspect you're not on your Pat Malone there either, which is why the
> FLC brings water/meth injection up as if it's in some way relevant to
> your initial comments :)
>
> Either way, I'm starting to feel more than a little concerned for Felix,
> for if you continue to make completely clueless and totally retarded
> posts like this then his title of "Dumbest inbred cuntoxen to ever
> inhabit this group in it's entire history" is genuinely under threat.
>
> The competition is about to get serious :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Genuinely wondering how many sock`s are here ATM??. Two, prolly three supposed *individuals* all poasting with the *same* extremely imbecilic juvenile style. A statistical impossibility methinks.!
> --
> --
> --
> Regards,
> Noddy.

On 1/03/2022 1:27 pm, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, 1 March 2022 at 12:34:52 UTC+11, Noddy wrote:
>> On 1/03/2022 12:17 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> yes I thought water vapor (can) increase air density, and also water
>>>> vapor burns when in the cylinder, iirc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhShcJZ3JAk
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWFztpnQuPA
>>>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah man!
>> ROTFL :)
>>> I knew it. And where's that troll-of-ages Noddy? Lurking in the tall
>>> grass I'll wager!
>> I'm right here, wondering what the fuck it was that you reckon you *knew* :)
>>> Now I expect a cringing, crawl-across-busted-glass,
>>> sackcloth-and-ashes, palm-nuzzling, lachrymose, whining apology, in
>>> public, to the brash sound of distant vuvuzelas...
>>> https://tinyurl.com/yc7p2fst
>>> Get to it, boy!
>> Do you now? And why would that be?
>>
>> You've done nothing here other than to show yourself to be completely
>> wrong when you started this thread claiming that cars run better in
>> humid weather, only *now* you've added to that by apparently being
>> totally incapable of appreciating the difference between the effects on
>> engine output relative to the degree of humidity, and water/methanol
>> injection systems used to prevent detonation in boosted engine applications.
>>
>> I suspect you're not on your Pat Malone there either, which is why the
>> FLC brings water/meth injection up as if it's in some way relevant to
>> your initial comments :)
>>
>> Either way, I'm starting to feel more than a little concerned for Felix,
>> for if you continue to make completely clueless and totally retarded
>> posts like this then his title of "Dumbest inbred cuntoxen to ever
>> inhabit this group in it's entire history" is genuinely under threat.
>>
>> The competition is about to get serious :)
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
> Genuinely wondering how many sock`s are here ATM??. Two, prolly three supposed *individuals* all poasting with the *same* extremely imbecilic juvenile style. A statistical impossibility methinks.!

The exact same imbecilic juvenile style that pegged "Krypsis" and "Xeno
Lith" as one and the same person :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 1/03/2022 4:38 am, Peter Jason wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 13:51:57 +1100, Noddy <me@home.com> wrote:
>
>> On 28/02/2022 12:38 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>>
>>> My dear old uncle was so convinced.
>>
>> Your dear old uncle had no idea.
>
> He could have shown you a few things....
>>
>>> He said it prevented any trace of pre-ignition.
>>
>> Yep. Definitely had absolutely no idea.
>
> Like this topic...
>>
>>> Indeed I once had an old Volkswagen and it ran better
>>> in foggy weather.
>>
>> Really? And what was the relative humidity on that day? :)
>
> The windows were fogging up, so I suspect close to 100%
>>
>>> My uncle was so interested there were plans to
>>> affix a water fogger just before the carburettor. I can't remember
>>> what happened.
>>
>> He was committed to an asylum I expect.
>
> No he was seeking a suitable one for you, with concrete walls and
> buxom guards with whips.
>>
>> Performance output of engines changes with air *density*, in that the
>> denser the air the more power they make. It's all about volumetric
>> efficiency, and the amount of air you can pack into the cylinders. When
>> air density is high, you pack more air into each cylinder creating a
>> bigger bang and ultimately more power. This is precisely why most cars
>> run better at night with cooler air temperatures than they do over the
>> course of the day where the temperatures have been higher.
>
> Isn't that what I said? You must be a quick learner...perhaps.

No, humid air is less dense. Cold air is more dense. You can have warm
humid air and cold humid air. You can also use water to increase power,
but that is not the same thing as the answer to "Do cars run better in
humid weather?" being "yes". The only people suggesting someone
presented that as the answer are those with a different agenda.

Watch the videos I linked to so you can understand the differences.
Ignore the trolls who aren't qualified and don't understand the science
which goes well beyond their level of understanding. They are only
interested in attacking and abusing you and others on strawmen of their
creation.

They can offer *nothing* of value.

--
keith on the 7 Oct 2021 wrote;
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if
it is unproven, he is lying."

On 1/03/2022 2:11 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>
>>
>> The competition is about to get serious :)
>
> Noddy has succumbed to NITPICKERY which is the last resort of a troll
> bested in the argument stakes!
>
> Oh, the pity of it!
>
> Noddy should ape up and concern himself with expressive heart of the
> point. :--)))))
>
> In the meantime he'll be given time to regain his composure, and
> return chastened and humbled.
>
>
No wonder xeno bought a computer from you. You're of the same ilk.

He invites another idiot to the group...

On 1/3/2022 12:04 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 09:39:06 +1100, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/3/2022 7:38 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>>> On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 13:51:57 +1100, Noddy <me@home.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 28/02/2022 12:38 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My dear old uncle was so convinced.
>>>>
>>>> Your dear old uncle had no idea.
>>>
>>> He could have shown you a few things....
>>>>
>>>>> He said it prevented any trace of pre-ignition.
>>>>
>>>> Yep. Definitely had absolutely no idea.
>>>
>>> Like this topic...
>>>>
>>>>> Indeed I once had an old Volkswagen and it ran better
>>>>> in foggy weather.
>>>>
>>>> Really? And what was the relative humidity on that day? :)
>>>
>>> The windows were fogging up, so I suspect close to 100%
>>>>
>>>>> My uncle was so interested there were plans to
>>>>> affix a water fogger just before the carburettor. I can't remember
>>>>> what happened.
>>>>
>>>> He was committed to an asylum I expect.
>>>
>>> No he was seeking a suitable one for you, with concrete walls and
>>> buxom guards with whips.
>>>>
>>>> Performance output of engines changes with air *density*, in that the
>>>> denser the air the more power they make. It's all about volumetric
>>>> efficiency, and the amount of air you can pack into the cylinders. When
>>>> air density is high, you pack more air into each cylinder creating a
>>>> bigger bang and ultimately more power. This is precisely why most cars
>>>> run better at night with cooler air temperatures than they do over the
>>>> course of the day where the temperatures have been higher.
>>>
>>> Isn't that what I said?
>>
>> No, you said cars run better when its foggy.
>> Humid air is actually less dense than dry air so the reality is a car
>> engine will run worse not that anyone would notice much difference.
>> The variable is if the air was cold as well as foggy, its not the fog
>> that makes the air more dense, its the cold.
>> See below, I'd believe Isaac Newton before I'd believe your uncle.
>>
>> "Most people who haven’t studied physics or chemistry find it hard to
>> believe that humid air is lighter, or less dense, than dry air. How can
>> the air become lighter if we add water vapor to it?
>> Scientists have known this for a long time. The first was Isaac Newton,
>> who stated that humid air is less dense than dry air in 1717 in his
>> book, Optics. But, other scientists didn’t generally understand this
>> until later in that century."
>> https://iflycoast.com/understanding-air-density-and-its-effects/
>
>
>
> ...uh, well, the car did run better in the fog and in chilly nights.

Obviously it being chilly was what was making it run better.
Old VW's had about 40hp so any improvement would be noticeable but not
so much on cars that had a decent amount of power.

--
Daryl

On 1/03/2022 3:11 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>
>>
>> The competition is about to get serious :)
>
> Noddy has succumbed to NITPICKERY which is the last resort of a troll
> bested in the argument stakes!

Lol :)

> Oh, the pity of it!

Yeah, you made a fairly decent idiot of yourself. Oh well, there's
always tomorrow....

> Noddy should ape up and concern himself with expressive heart of the
> point. :--)))))

If you bothered to check and gave up being a dick for just a moment,
you'd see that addressing the expressive heart of the point was exactly
what was done.

> In the meantime he'll be given time to regain his composure, and
> return chastened and humbled.

Generally people don't display this level of "stupid" by accident or
genetics and have to dedicate a fair amount of their lives in the
pursuit of it. You must work very hard at this and just *had* to have
had times in the past where you considered turning pro.

Dance around making an absolute *flog* of yourself all you like, but the
simple arithmetic here is that you, and your uncle, have no idea what
you're talking about and you can consider yourself as having been educated.

Here endeth the lesson.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 1/3/2022 12:17 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>
>>
>> yes I thought water vapor (can) increase air density, and also water
>> vapor burns when in the cylinder, iirc.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhShcJZ3JAk
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWFztpnQuPA
>>>
>
> Yeah man!

Yeah man what?
The difference between a properly engineered water injection system made
for a specific engine can hardly be compared to a standard engine
running in fog, the amount of water an engine would ingest in fog would
be so insignificant that it would be near impossible to measure.
I know of a mechanic who fitted water injection (you could buy WI kits)
to his Austin 1800 back in the 70's, supposedly the main benefit was it
keep the top of the pistons and combustion chambers cleaner back in the
day when fuel was dirty and engines carboned up.
He removed it after a few months because whilst it did keep things
cleaner it didn't make the engine run any better long term.

> I knew it. And where's that troll-of-ages Noddy? Lurking in the tall
> grass I'll wager!

There is certainly a troll lurking here but his name isn't Noddy.
Try and work out who it is, hint look in a mirror.

--
Daryl

On 1/3/22 15:18, Grumpy Tech wrote:
> On 1/03/2022 2:11 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The competition is about to get serious :)
>>
>> Noddy has succumbed to NITPICKERY which is the last resort of a troll
>> bested in the argument stakes!
>>
>> Oh, the pity of it!
>>
>> Noddy should ape up and concern himself with expressive heart of the
>> point.    :--)))))
>>
>> In the meantime he'll be given time to regain his composure, and
>> return chastened and humbled.
>>
> No wonder xeno bought a computer from you. You're of the same ilk.
>
> He invites another idiot to the group...

I made no invite! Peter is here of his own volition. If course, that is
way too complex for you to get your head around.

Oh, and the computer works a treat too, a 100% runner under Linux at the
moment and I'm currently typing this missive on it. The bargain of the
century! Currently not using the Thermaltake cable management 1000 Watt
PSU, it weighed a ton and was way overkill for my needs. I just plugged
in a smaller 500 Watt Thermaltake PSU I had laying around since it'll be
on (relatively) light duties from here on in.

--
Xeno

On 1/3/22 15:37, Noddy wrote:
> On 1/03/2022 3:11 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The competition is about to get serious :)
>>
>> Noddy has succumbed to NITPICKERY which is the last resort of a troll
>> bested in the argument stakes!
>
> Lol :)
>
>> Oh, the pity of it!
>
> Yeah, you made a fairly decent idiot of yourself. Oh well, there's
> always tomorrow....

He could have done worse Darren, he could have followed *your leaqd* and
*invented* multiple qualifications, business ownership, land ownership
and dog knows what else. Hell, you even invented 22+ years of membership
of the VACC in order to bolster your bullshit tales of self
aggrandisement but, sadly for you, it took but an email to discover the
real truth - the VACC have never heard of you or your *claimed*
businesses. How unsurprising!
>
>> Noddy should ape up and concern himself with expressive heart of the
>> point.    :--)))))
>
> If you bothered to check and gave up being a dick for just a moment,

You've never managed to give up being a dick. Ingrained in you, it is!

> you'd see that addressing the expressive heart of the point was exactly
> what was done.
>
>> In the meantime he'll be given time to regain his composure, and
>> return chastened and humbled.
>
> Generally people don't display this level of "stupid" by accident or
> genetics and have to dedicate a fair amount of their lives in the
> pursuit of it. You must work very hard at this and just *had* to have
> had times in the past where you considered turning pro.

Well, your father worked out you were dedicating your life to a *level
of stupid* that beggared belief when you were a mere 8 years old and he
dubbed you Noddy. Very astute was your father.
>
> Dance around making an absolute *flog* of yourself all you like, but the
> simple arithmetic here is that you, and your uncle, have no idea what
> you're talking about and you can consider yourself as having been educated.
>
> Here endeth the lesson.

And still you learnt nothing!

--
Xeno

On 1/3/22 15:53, Daryl wrote:
> On 1/3/2022 12:17 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> yes I thought water vapor (can) increase air density, and also water
>>> vapor burns when in the cylinder, iirc.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhShcJZ3JAk
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWFztpnQuPA
>>>>
>>
>> Yeah man!
>
> Yeah man what?
> The difference between a properly engineered water injection system made
> for a specific engine can hardly be compared to a standard engine
> running in fog, the amount of water an engine would ingest in fog would
> be so insignificant that it would be near impossible to measure.
> I know of a mechanic who fitted water injection (you could buy WI kits)
> to his Austin 1800 back in the 70's, supposedly the main benefit was it
> keep the top of the pistons and combustion chambers cleaner back in the
> day when fuel was dirty and engines carboned up.
> He removed it after a few months because whilst it did keep things
> cleaner it didn't make the engine run any better long term.
>
>
>> I knew it.  And where's that troll-of-ages Noddy?  Lurking in the tall
>> grass I'll wager!
>
> There is certainly a troll lurking here but his name isn't Noddy.
> Try and work out who it is, hint look in a mirror.
>
>
Nah, his nick is Noddy! The troll's real name is Darren Thomas Gibbens.

--
Xeno

On Tue, 1 Mar 2022 15:37:24 +1100, Noddy wrote:

> On 1/03/2022 3:11 pm, Peter Jason wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The competition is about to get serious :)
>>
>> Noddy has succumbed to NITPICKERY which is the last resort of a troll
>> bested in the argument stakes!
>
> Lol :)
>
>> Oh, the pity of it!
>
> Yeah, you made a fairly decent idiot of yourself. Oh well, there's
> always tomorrow....
>
>> Noddy should ape up and concern himself with expressive heart of the
>> point. :--)))))
>
> If you bothered to check and gave up being a dick for just a moment,
> you'd see that addressing the expressive heart of the point was exactly
> what was done.
>
>> In the meantime he'll be given time to regain his composure, and
>> return chastened and humbled.
>
> Generally people don't display this level of "stupid" by accident or
> genetics and have to dedicate a fair amount of their lives in the
> pursuit of it. You must work very hard at this and just *had* to have
> had times in the past where you considered turning pro.
>
> Dance around making an absolute *flog* of yourself all you like, but the
> simple arithmetic here is that you, and your uncle, have no idea what
> you're talking about and you can consider yourself as having been educated.
>
> Here endeth the lesson.

I wonder if any of The Enablers have ever paused for a moment to wonder why
it's so *very, very* important for the Fraudster to paint so many people as
"flogs", "stupid", "dick" etc etc etc. Especially in cases like this one
where his hissiness is based on a blatant lie.

alvey
“She's [Michalia Cash] a fucktard. If she came anywhere near me I
would punch her.” Fraudster, 09Apr19

--
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