I may have said it before but what is going on?

No 17 year old would have dithered around like Chelsea has and I am
quite sure that she would have known a lot of the things which have
allegedly needed to be "found out". Her behaviour is completely at odds
with the girl who was streetwise and organised when she first arrived.

Ben may be a sensitive soul and I can accept that Beth is put out - but
he is behaving like he is 10 or 11 and not 20. Again a complete
makeover from the individual who worked out that he wanted to be a nurse
and was not going into the family business (despite Bess).

The development team have had to impose so many non-Archer characters as
they seem unable to write about the core farms and tell rural stories
and are again imposing urban-like activity without sticking to the
countryside setting. And it is too many in too short a time - whilst
earlier introductions - Toby and Phoebe and Ruarigh (as originally
spelt) have been put out to grass.

I fear there is a need for a change of editor to someone who can
actually make the rural aspects work for the good of the programme.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

On 29/10/2022 13:34, krw wrote:
> I may have said it before but what is going on?
>
> No 17 year old would have dithered around like Chelsea has and I am
> quite sure that she would have known a lot of the things which have
> allegedly needed to be "found out".  Her behaviour is completely at odds
> with the girl who was streetwise and organised when she first arrived.
>
> Ben may be a sensitive soul and I can accept that Beth is put out - but
> he is behaving like he is 10 or 11 and not 20.  Again a complete
> makeover from the individual who worked out that he wanted to be a nurse
> and was not going into the family business (despite Bess).

I couldn't disagree more on these 2 points. I think this storyline has
been very well handled. All these cool streetwise kids are far less
knowledgeable than they'd like (us) to believe, so I think it's
completely credible that she would hesitate about such a big decision
and not know when a pregnancy officially "starts" (neither did I and I
think it is ridiculous when there has only been 1 coupling with a clear
date).

I also think Ben's reaction wile perhaps unusual shows great maturity.

I have a bit more sympathy with the rest that I've snipped.

Is this a good place to mention TA's place in history as revealed in
theEnfield and Whitehouse spoof history ?

On 29.10.22 13:55, BrritSki wrote:
> On 29/10/2022 13:34, krw wrote:
>> I may have said it before but what is going on?
>>
>> No 17 year old would have dithered around like Chelsea has and I am
>> quite sure that she would have known a lot of the things which have
>> allegedly needed to be "found out".  Her behaviour is completely at
>> odds with the girl who was streetwise and organised when she first
>> arrived.
>>
>> Ben may be a sensitive soul and I can accept that Beth is put out -
>> but he is behaving like he is 10 or 11 and not 20.  Again a complete
>> makeover from the individual who worked out that he wanted to be a
>> nurse and was not going into the family business (despite Bess).
>
> I couldn't disagree more on these 2 points. I think this storyline has
> been very well handled. All these cool streetwise kids are far less
> knowledgeable than they'd like (us) to believe, so I think it's
> completely credible that she would hesitate about such a big decision
> and not know when a pregnancy officially "starts" (neither did I and I
> think it is ridiculous when there has only been 1 coupling with a clear
> date).

I was aware of their needing to be a legally defined point as otherwise
how do you ensure the cut-off point for abortion? I am sure it came up
when our daughter was born and more importantly I know my at least two
of my daughters knew about it when discussing their pregnancies.
>
> I also think Ben's reaction wile perhaps unusual shows great maturity.
>
> I have a bit more sympathy with the rest that I've snipped.
>
> Is this a good place to mention TA's place in history as revealed in
> theEnfield and Whitehouse spoof history ?
>
You can as I have forgotten it (although I suspect I knew it once upon a
time).

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

On 29/10/2022 13:55, BrritSki wrote:
> On 29/10/2022 13:34, krw wrote:
>> I may have said it before but what is going on?
>>
>> No 17 year old would have dithered around like Chelsea has and I am
>> quite sure that she would have known a lot of the things which have
>> allegedly needed to be "found out".  Her behaviour is completely at
>> odds with the girl who was streetwise and organised when she first
>> arrived.
>>
>> Ben may be a sensitive soul and I can accept that Beth is put out -
>> but he is behaving like he is 10 or 11 and not 20.  Again a complete
>> makeover from the individual who worked out that he wanted to be a
>> nurse and was not going into the family business (despite Bess).
>
> I couldn't disagree more on these 2 points. I think this storyline has
> been very well handled. All these cool streetwise kids are far less
> knowledgeable than they'd like (us) to believe, so I think it's
> completely credible that she would hesitate about such a big decision
> and not know when a pregnancy officially "starts" (neither did I and I
> think it is ridiculous when there has only been 1 coupling with a clear
> date).

I did know, but perhaps I've had more experience than some.
> I also think Ben's reaction wile perhaps unusual shows great maturity.
>

I think it shows some fairly nuanced and mature writing. Ben is multiply
conflicted by the weight of expectation on him to be a good guy, his
confusion over what that would be in this case (should he have offered
to marry Chelsea, is 'being there for you' enough?), trying to square
his desire to be a good guy with the effects his actions are having on
other people while (outwardly) he 'gets away with it'. If Beth did but
know it all this means he is exactly the person she should be wanting to
spwnd the rest of her life with (and I think she probably does but she's
also facing her own conflicts). The one thing nobody will suggest is
counselling/therapy, but I reckon they would both benefit. Chelsea may
need some in a few months/years - no termination is without its scars -
but at the moment she's the most level headed of them in spite of her
dithering.

john

On 29/10/2022 14:17, krw wrote:
> On 29.10.22 13:55, BrritSki wrote:

>> Is this a good place to mention TA's place in history as revealed in
>> the Enfield and Whitehouse spoof history ?
>>
> You can as I have forgotten it (although I suspect I knew it once upon a
> time).
>
I doubt it as it is entirely fictitious :)

On 29/10/2022 14:28, John Ashby wrote:
> On 29/10/2022 13:55, BrritSki wrote:
>> On 29/10/2022 13:34, krw wrote:
>>> I may have said it before but what is going on?
>>>
>>> No 17 year old would have dithered around like Chelsea has and I am
>>> quite sure that she would have known a lot of the things which have
>>> allegedly needed to be "found out".  Her behaviour is completely at
>>> odds with the girl who was streetwise and organised when she first
>>> arrived.
>>>
>>> Ben may be a sensitive soul and I can accept that Beth is put out -
>>> but he is behaving like he is 10 or 11 and not 20.  Again a complete
>>> makeover from the individual who worked out that he wanted to be a
>>> nurse and was not going into the family business (despite Bess).
>>
>> I couldn't disagree more on these 2 points. I think this storyline has
>> been very well handled. All these cool streetwise kids are far less
>> knowledgeable than they'd like (us) to believe, so I think it's
>> completely credible that she would hesitate about such a big decision
>> and not know when a pregnancy officially "starts" (neither did I and I
>> think it is ridiculous when there has only been 1 coupling with a
>> clear date).
>
> I did know, but perhaps I've had more experience than some.
>> I also think Ben's reaction wile perhaps unusual shows great maturity.
>>
>
> I think it shows some fairly nuanced and mature writing. Ben is multiply
> conflicted by the weight of expectation on him to be a good guy, his
> confusion over what that would be in this case (should he have offered
> to marry Chelsea, is 'being there for you' enough?), trying to square
> his desire to be a good guy with the effects his actions are having on
> other people while (outwardly) he 'gets away with it'. If Beth did but
> know it all this means he is exactly the person she should be wanting to
> spwnd the rest of her life with (and I think she probably does but she's
> also facing her own conflicts). The one thing nobody will suggest is
> counselling/therapy, but I reckon they would both benefit. Chelsea may
> need some in a few months/years - no termination is without its scars -
> but at the moment she's the most level headed of them in spite of her
> dithering.
>
<LW>

On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 13:34:38 +0100, krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:

>I may have said it before but what is going on?
>
>No 17 year old would have dithered around like Chelsea has and I am
>quite sure that she would have known a lot of the things which have
>allegedly needed to be "found out". Her behaviour is completely at odds
>with the girl who was streetwise and organised when she first arrived.
>
>Ben may be a sensitive soul and I can accept that Beth is put out - but
>he is behaving like he is 10 or 11 and not 20. Again a complete
>makeover from the individual who worked out that he wanted to be a nurse
>and was not going into the family business (despite Bess).
>
>The development team have had to impose so many non-Archer characters as
>they seem unable to write about the core farms and tell rural stories
>and are again imposing urban-like activity without sticking to the
>countryside setting. And it is too many in too short a time - whilst
>earlier introductions - Toby and Phoebe and Ruarigh (as originally
>spelt) have been put out to grass.
>
>I fear there is a need for a change of editor to someone who can
>actually make the rural aspects work for the good of the programme.

I agree about all of that, too many new people, too fast, not enough
core and farming and Chelsea and Ben being able to find out more (her)
and act less hysterically (him). People their age have search skills
on the internet. The issue is not just 2 weeks later than expected.
It is at least 6 weeks too late.

I think the SWs and planners delayed her choice of what to do for
dramatic reasons, unreasonably. I think once she knew and Ben did
they'd have made her go to get professional advice, not leave it so
late.

Ben promised to be there for her and do whatever she needed. All she
wanted was him not to go to the hospital and to keep the secret. He
then went to the hospital and outed himself as father to Tracy and
told his own mother too, both of which Chelsea didn't want. Since he
is a trainee nurse you'd think he would be more aware of rights to
confidentiality. However emotional he felt and however guilty he
behaved badly and made it about himself, when she needed to
concentrate on the hospital meeting and information.

Throwing Beth out was totally hysterical too. And Ruth interfering and
being told was out of order. I suppose Beth did need to be told.

Jazzer shouldn't have been told either and Tracy should have told
Jolene she was gossiping and wrong. Or told Trashy it was not her
business and there are questions you don't ask. Helen and Pat, or
whoever it was Trashy told, should have told her she was wrong to have
asked too.

I don't think Ben is entitled to the luxury of his feelings
concentrating on himself at this point although I think both of them
will nowbe more mature. I think Chelsea might have emotional effects
later on if she has the termination, but she seems sure and the family
are barely managing as it is, without a baby.

The SWs have now set up new stories for the future, whether she has
the baby or not, because of Ruth knowing now.

krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
> On 29.10.22 13:55, BrritSki wrote:
>> On 29/10/2022 13:34, krw wrote:
>>> I may have said it before but what is going on?
>>>
>>> No 17 year old would have dithered around like Chelsea has and I am
>>> quite sure that she would have known a lot of the things which have
>>> allegedly needed to be "found out".  Her behaviour is completely at
>>> odds with the girl who was streetwise and organised when she first
>>> arrived.
>>>
>>> Ben may be a sensitive soul and I can accept that Beth is put out -
>>> but he is behaving like he is 10 or 11 and not 20.  Again a complete
>>> makeover from the individual who worked out that he wanted to be a
>>> nurse and was not going into the family business (despite Bess).
>>
>> I couldn't disagree more on these 2 points. I think this storyline has
>> been very well handled. All these cool streetwise kids are far less
>> knowledgeable than they'd like (us) to believe, so I think it's
>> completely credible that she would hesitate about such a big decision
>> and not know when a pregnancy officially "starts" (neither did I and I
>> think it is ridiculous when there has only been 1 coupling with a clear
>> date).
>
> I was aware of their needing to be a legally defined point as otherwise
> how do you ensure the cut-off point for abortion? I am sure it came up
> when our daughter was born and more importantly I know my at least two
> of my daughters knew about it when discussing their pregnancies.
>>
>> I also think Ben's reaction wile perhaps unusual shows great maturity.
>>
>> I have a bit more sympathy with the rest that I've snipped.
>>
>> Is this a good place to mention TA's place in history as revealed in
>> theEnfield and Whitehouse spoof history ?
>>
> You can as I have forgotten it (although I suspect I knew it once upon a
> time).
>

FedUp now has Andrea Catherwood as Roger Bolton was put out to graze
at the end of the last series. FedUp wants to know what we like or not
about current TA.

This has been a PSA

Mrs McT

BrritSki <rtilburyTAKEAWAY@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 29/10/2022 14:28, John Ashby wrote:
>> On 29/10/2022 13:55, BrritSki wrote:
>>> On 29/10/2022 13:34, krw wrote:
>>>> I may have said it before but what is going on?
>>>>
>>>> No 17 year old would have dithered around like Chelsea has and I am
>>>> quite sure that she would have known a lot of the things which have
>>>> allegedly needed to be "found out".  Her behaviour is completely at
>>>> odds with the girl who was streetwise and organised when she first
>>>> arrived.
>>>>
>>>> Ben may be a sensitive soul and I can accept that Beth is put out -
>>>> but he is behaving like he is 10 or 11 and not 20.  Again a complete
>>>> makeover from the individual who worked out that he wanted to be a
>>>> nurse and was not going into the family business (despite Bess).
>>>
>>> I couldn't disagree more on these 2 points. I think this storyline has
>>> been very well handled. All these cool streetwise kids are far less
>>> knowledgeable than they'd like (us) to believe, so I think it's
>>> completely credible that she would hesitate about such a big decision
>>> and not know when a pregnancy officially "starts" (neither did I and I
>>> think it is ridiculous when there has only been 1 coupling with a
>>> clear date).
>>
>> I did know, but perhaps I've had more experience than some.
>>> I also think Ben's reaction wile perhaps unusual shows great maturity.
>>>
>>
>> I think it shows some fairly nuanced and mature writing. Ben is multiply
>> conflicted by the weight of expectation on him to be a good guy, his
>> confusion over what that would be in this case (should he have offered
>> to marry Chelsea, is 'being there for you' enough?), trying to square
>> his desire to be a good guy with the effects his actions are having on
>> other people while (outwardly) he 'gets away with it'. If Beth did but
>> know it all this means he is exactly the person she should be wanting to
>> spwnd the rest of her life with (and I think she probably does but she's
>> also facing her own conflicts). The one thing nobody will suggest is
>> counselling/therapy, but I reckon they would both benefit. Chelsea may
>> need some in a few months/years - no termination is without its scars -
>> but at the moment she's the most level headed of them in spite of her
>> dithering.
>>
> <LW>
>
>
>

Where was ‘effer when one needed her

Mrs McT

On 30/10/2022 08:59, Chris wrote:

> FedUp now has Andrea Catherwood as Roger Bolton was put out to graze
> at the end of the last series.

Indeed. And it's now all very cosy and chatty, with none of Roger
Bolton's tenacity when trying to get answers to listeners' questions or
complaints. I'd write in and complain, but...

--
Sid
(Make sure Matron is away when you reply)

Sid Nuncius <nuncius@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 30/10/2022 08:59, Chris wrote:
>
>> FedUp now has Andrea Catherwood as Roger Bolton was put out to graze
>> at the end of the last series.
>
> Indeed. And it's now all very cosy and chatty, with none of Roger
> Bolton's tenacity when trying to get answers to listeners' questions or
> complaints. I'd write in and complain, but...
>

But Sid, you know there is nothing to complain about, the Beeb are
perfection and know exactly what we need (even if this is not WHAT we would
like.)

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On 30/10/2022 08:59, Chris wrote:
> krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>> On 29.10.22 13:55, BrritSki wrote:
>>> On 29/10/2022 13:34, krw wrote:
>>>> I may have said it before but what is going on?
>>>>
>>>> No 17 year old would have dithered around like Chelsea has and I am
>>>> quite sure that she would have known a lot of the things which have
>>>> allegedly needed to be "found out".  Her behaviour is completely at
>>>> odds with the girl who was streetwise and organised when she first
>>>> arrived.
>>>>
>>>> Ben may be a sensitive soul and I can accept that Beth is put out -
>>>> but he is behaving like he is 10 or 11 and not 20.  Again a complete
>>>> makeover from the individual who worked out that he wanted to be a
>>>> nurse and was not going into the family business (despite Bess).
>>>
>>> I couldn't disagree more on these 2 points. I think this storyline has
>>> been very well handled. All these cool streetwise kids are far less
>>> knowledgeable than they'd like (us) to believe, so I think it's
>>> completely credible that she would hesitate about such a big decision
>>> and not know when a pregnancy officially "starts" (neither did I and I
>>> think it is ridiculous when there has only been 1 coupling with a clear
>>> date).
>>
>> I was aware of their needing to be a legally defined point as otherwise
>> how do you ensure the cut-off point for abortion? I am sure it came up
>> when our daughter was born and more importantly I know my at least two
>> of my daughters knew about it when discussing their pregnancies.
>>>
>>> I also think Ben's reaction wile perhaps unusual shows great maturity.
>>>
>>> I have a bit more sympathy with the rest that I've snipped.
>>>
>>> Is this a good place to mention TA's place in history as revealed in
>>> theEnfield and Whitehouse spoof history ?
>>>
>> You can as I have forgotten it (although I suspect I knew it once upon a
>> time).
>>
>
> FedUp now has Andrea Catherwood as Roger Bolton was put out to graze
> at the end of the last series. FedUp wants to know what we like or not
> about current TA.
>
> This has been a PSA
>
> Mrs McT

I can't find it now, but it was mentioned somewhere in the Radio Times
that Roger Bolton has started a podcast called Roger Bolton's Beeb Watch.

--
CaroleT

On Mon, 31 Oct 2022 17:09:59 +0000, carolet <carolet.umrat@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 30/10/2022 08:59, Chris wrote:
>> krw <krw@whitnet.uk> wrote:
>>> On 29.10.22 13:55, BrritSki wrote:
>>>> On 29/10/2022 13:34, krw wrote:
>>>>> I may have said it before but what is going on?
>>>>>
>>>>> No 17 year old would have dithered around like Chelsea has and I am
>>>>> quite sure that she would have known a lot of the things which have
>>>>> allegedly needed to be "found out".  Her behaviour is completely at
>>>>> odds with the girl who was streetwise and organised when she first
>>>>> arrived.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben may be a sensitive soul and I can accept that Beth is put out -
>>>>> but he is behaving like he is 10 or 11 and not 20.  Again a complete
>>>>> makeover from the individual who worked out that he wanted to be a
>>>>> nurse and was not going into the family business (despite Bess).
>>>>
>>>> I couldn't disagree more on these 2 points. I think this storyline has
>>>> been very well handled. All these cool streetwise kids are far less
>>>> knowledgeable than they'd like (us) to believe, so I think it's
>>>> completely credible that she would hesitate about such a big decision
>>>> and not know when a pregnancy officially "starts" (neither did I and I
>>>> think it is ridiculous when there has only been 1 coupling with a clear
>>>> date).
>>>
>>> I was aware of their needing to be a legally defined point as otherwise
>>> how do you ensure the cut-off point for abortion? I am sure it came up
>>> when our daughter was born and more importantly I know my at least two
>>> of my daughters knew about it when discussing their pregnancies.
>>>>
>>>> I also think Ben's reaction wile perhaps unusual shows great maturity.
>>>>
>>>> I have a bit more sympathy with the rest that I've snipped.
>>>>
>>>> Is this a good place to mention TA's place in history as revealed in
>>>> theEnfield and Whitehouse spoof history ?
>>>>
>>> You can as I have forgotten it (although I suspect I knew it once upon a
>>> time).
>>>
>>
>> FedUp now has Andrea Catherwood as Roger Bolton was put out to graze
>> at the end of the last series. FedUp wants to know what we like or not
>> about current TA.
>>
>> This has been a PSA
>>
>> Mrs McT
>
>I can't find it now, but it was mentioned somewhere in the Radio Times
>that Roger Bolton has started a podcast called Roger Bolton's Beeb Watch.

If you are interested, you can find them all here:-
https://shows.acast.com/rogerboltonsbeebwatch

I listened to the first two episodes.

Nick

On Mon, 31 Oct 2022 09:10:22 +0000, Sid Nuncius
<nuncius@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>On 30/10/2022 08:59, Chris wrote:
>
>> FedUp now has Andrea Catherwood as Roger Bolton was put out to graze
>> at the end of the last series.
>
>Indeed. And it's now all very cosy and chatty, with none of Roger
>Bolton's tenacity when trying to get answers to listeners' questions or
>complaints. I'd write in and complain, but...

I felt that Feedback started losing the plot when they brought in
segments like "Out of your Comfort Zone" which were interesting (FSVO)
but seemed to me to have nothing much to do with holding the Beeb to
account whilst shortening the available time per episode for the main
mission.

I imagine that the new format will eventually turn out to be much like
"Over to You" from the BBC World Service.

Nick

Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Oct 2022 09:10:22 +0000, Sid Nuncius
> <nuncius@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 30/10/2022 08:59, Chris wrote:
>>
>>> FedUp now has Andrea Catherwood as Roger Bolton was put out to graze
>>> at the end of the last series.
>>
>> Indeed. And it's now all very cosy and chatty, with none of Roger
>> Bolton's tenacity when trying to get answers to listeners' questions or
>> complaints. I'd write in and complain, but...
>
> I felt that Feedback started losing the plot when they brought in
> segments like "Out of your Comfort Zone" which were interesting (FSVO)
> but seemed to me to have nothing much to do with holding the Beeb to
> account whilst shortening the available time per episode for the main
> mission.
>
> I imagine that the new format will eventually turn out to be much like
> "Over to You" from the BBC World Service.
>
> Nick
>

Plus the inexorably long ‘how to contact us’ obligatory announcement (and
probably at least one plug for ‘BBC Sounds’ that creeps in everywhere) then
not forgetting the intro and outtro bits and the fact that the 30 minute
slot also contains at least 3 minutes of other ‘stuff’ from continuity on
the front and back of the slot. Hey Presto - you need only 15 minutes of
material at most for the Fed Up programme proper. Harrumph.

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
> Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> On Mon, 31 Oct 2022 09:10:22 +0000, Sid Nuncius
>> <nuncius@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 30/10/2022 08:59, Chris wrote:
>>>
>>>> FedUp now has Andrea Catherwood as Roger Bolton was put out to graze
>>>> at the end of the last series.
>>>
>>> Indeed. And it's now all very cosy and chatty, with none of Roger
>>> Bolton's tenacity when trying to get answers to listeners' questions or
>>> complaints. I'd write in and complain, but...
>>
>> I felt that Feedback started losing the plot when they brought in
>> segments like "Out of your Comfort Zone" which were interesting (FSVO)
>> but seemed to me to have nothing much to do with holding the Beeb to
>> account whilst shortening the available time per episode for the main
>> mission.
>>
>> I imagine that the new format will eventually turn out to be much like
>> "Over to You" from the BBC World Service.
>>
>> Nick
>>
>
> Plus the inexorably long ‘how to contact us’ obligatory announcement (and
> probably at least one plug for ‘BBC Sounds’ that creeps in everywhere) then
> not forgetting the intro and outtro bits and the fact that the 30 minute
> slot also contains at least 3 minutes of other ‘stuff’ from continuity on
> the front and back of the slot. Hey Presto - you need only 15 minutes of
> material at most for the Fed Up programme proper. Harrumph.
>

And don’t get me started on the time allocated to Bunny Mox on the
Saturday…

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 13:55:40 +0100, BrritSki <rtilburyTAKEAWAY@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...

>I think it's
>completely credible that she would hesitate about such a big decision
>and not know when a pregnancy officially "starts" (neither did I

I didn't know either, when I was pregnant for the first time (at 25). But I
did know my own menstrual cycle was 6 weeks, not four, and thought to
mention this to the GP when he was calculating due date and he factored it
in. The system at the time did not provide for such aberrations to be
recorded so I told each medical professional I encountered during the
pregnancy. Some did not believe it would make any difference to the due
date but I managed to avoid any early intervention and D#1 arrived on the
date we had calculated.

>and I
>think it is ridiculous when there has only been 1 coupling with a clear
>date).

Not so ridiculous when the law is based upon 'the norm', presumably with no
leeway. But I agree, Chelsea knew the date of conception (I know she
wasn't, but any raped woman would) and this should have been noted and used
for calculations anyway. I'm not sure all young women record the dates of
their periods even when they are sexually active.

As a vaguely related aside, I spent the weekend with my family and was
shocked when my eldest granddaughter - aged 13 - applied a little makeup,
transforming herself into a 17 year-old.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

On 01/11/2022 10:25, Penny wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 13:55:40 +0100, BrritSki <rtilburyTAKEAWAY@gmail.com>
> scrawled in the dust...
>
>> and I
>> think it is ridiculous when there has only been 1 coupling with a clear
>> date).
>
> Not so ridiculous when the law is based upon 'the norm', presumably with no
> leeway.

I can understand that there's some legal definition when the date is
unknown, but surely it should be 14 days AFTER the last period which is
the normal date of ovulation and when a woman is most fertile aiui (IANAW).

On Tue, 01 Nov 2022 10:25:39 +0000, Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 13:55:40 +0100, BrritSki <rtilburyTAKEAWAY@gmail.com>
>scrawled in the dust...
>
>>I think it's
>>completely credible that she would hesitate about such a big decision
>>and not know when a pregnancy officially "starts" (neither did I
>
>I didn't know either, when I was pregnant for the first time (at 25). But I
>did know my own menstrual cycle was 6 weeks, not four, and thought to
>mention this to the GP when he was calculating due date and he factored it
>in. The system at the time did not provide for such aberrations to be
>recorded so I told each medical professional I encountered during the
>pregnancy. Some did not believe it would make any difference to the due
>date but I managed to avoid any early intervention and D#1 arrived on the
>date we had calculated.
>
>>and I
>>think it is ridiculous when there has only been 1 coupling with a clear
>>date).
>
>Not so ridiculous when the law is based upon 'the norm', presumably with no
>leeway. But I agree, Chelsea knew the date of conception (I know she
>wasn't, but any raped woman would) and this should have been noted and used
>for calculations anyway. I'm not sure all young women record the dates of
>their periods even when they are sexually active.
>
>As a vaguely related aside, I spent the weekend with my family and was
>shocked when my eldest granddaughter - aged 13 - applied a little makeup,
>transforming herself into a 17 year-old.

I think an internet competent 17 year old would have quickly found
accurate information on what to do. The sounds website had the helpful
links for people who had been affected by the story and the first, in
2 clicks
https://www.nhs.uk/pregnancy/finding-out/due-date-calculator/
'Some women's cycles are not exactly 28 days. Adjust the cycle length
if your cycle is shorter or longer than 28 days.'
So bettter than when we were pregnant.,I had a longer and irregular
cycle too and with first daughter they insisted on inducing her a few
days over their due date, not mine. She was not quite ready, I
thought.

Second daughter I knew their nuggering date was wrong as Capt Ex was
not home to start her and anyway I wanted a home birth, and spent 6
months battling for it as they were unusual in 1975, not having
enjoyed the hospital one. I was all set, Capt Ex home for delivery but
at 10 days over their date they said come in and be induced tomorrow.

Sensible daughter arrived that night. The midwife came out with 2
students, as not many home births then, and it all stopped so she gave
me sleeping pills and they departed. We were worried about calling
again when it restarted but Capt Ex said Chief Officers do a medical
course. I saw the film. I can deliver. He practically did have to. I
was pushing daughter out whenwe called the midwife and co back.

That daughter had younger grandson at home too 6 years ago :).

The NHS website also has other links

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/abortion/

Really Chelsea could have and should have sorted the thing much
earlier. There are arguments/ debates on fb about did she need to tell
Ben if not having the baby. I think more information might have
speeded her decision. Should she have told him as he was never going
to be helping make it? I think the way he reacted, then involving both
their mothers, was OTT and just what Chelsea didn't want or need.
She had Tracy to support her. Jazzer knowing was unnecessary. Tracy
knowing the father was too.

On 01/11/2022 13:35, Vicky wrote:
> 'Some women's cycles are not exactly 28 days. Adjust the cycle length
> if your cycle is shorter or longer than 28 days.'
> So bettter than when we were pregnant.,I had a longer and irregular
> cycle too and with first daughter they insisted on inducing her a few
> days over their due date, not mine. She was not quite ready, I
> thought.

I knew (although I did not believe it at the time) exactly when (or
shortly beforehand, to be precise) I became pregnant with my first
because the first thing not-yet-my-husband said after "the deed" was "Oh
God, I've just made you pregnant!"

I thought he was joking (not funny) but he insisted he had known
instantly with his 2 previous children. In due course there was the
usual sign that I was NOT pregnant, but then I started having other
symptoms of pregnancy and my next period didn't arrive. I then went to
the Dr but I knew he wouldn't examine me if I said I was only 2 weeks
overdue so I told him I had missed 2 periods. He prodded me and
confirmed I was pregnant. (I chose my daughter's name on the way home!)

--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK

On 1.11.22 13:35, Vicky wrote:
> Really Chelsea could have and should have sorted the thing much
> earlier. There are arguments/ debates on fb about did she need to tell
> Ben if not having the baby. I think more information might have
> speeded her decision. Should she have told him as he was never going
> to be helping make it? I think the way he reacted, then involving both
> their mothers, was OTT and just what Chelsea didn't want or need.
> She had Tracy to support her. Jazzer knowing was unnecessary. Tracy
> knowing the father was too.

Poor editing decision by God. We all know that she could and would have
sorted it all sooner and might have told Ben - but clearly the editor
was short on dramatic options and went for the story and all the
possible delays, running away, crying and so on he could wring out of it.

Ever more "contemporary drama" and we will forget the rural idyll.

The main problem is that apart from Ben's tangential involvement we are
again largely out of the farms, largely out of connection with "The
Archers" and it feels unrealistic as it involves all these "young"
people who do not reflect the mores and morality of the "young" people
in my orbit (largely grandchildren, eldest 18).

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

On 01/11/2022 13:35, Vicky wrote:
>
> I think an internet competent 17 year old would have quickly found
> accurate information on what to do.

Agreed. But she KNEW when the pregnancy started, so why would she go and
look it up ?

On 1.11.22 14:18, BrritSki wrote:
> On 01/11/2022 13:35, Vicky wrote:
>>
>> I think an internet competent 17 year old would have quickly found
>> accurate information on what to do.
>
>
> Agreed. But she KNEW when the pregnancy started, so why would she go and
> look it up ?
>
>

She said at one point that she had researched it all on t'internet - and
whilst I have not checked I cannot believe that there is no mention of
it in the places she is likely to have looked.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

On Tue, 01 Nov 2022 13:35:45 +0000, Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com> scrawled
in the dust...

>I think an internet competent 17 year old would have quickly found
>accurate information on what to do. The sounds website had the helpful
>links for people who had been affected by the story and the first, in
>2 clicks
>https://www.nhs.uk/pregnancy/finding-out/due-date-calculator/
>'Some women's cycles are not exactly 28 days. Adjust the cycle length
>if your cycle is shorter or longer than 28 days.'

Pleased to hear this.

>So bettter than when we were pregnant.,I had a longer and irregular
>cycle too and with first daughter they insisted on inducing her a few
>days over their due date, not mine. She was not quite ready, I
>thought.

I think I was lucky in having a GP who listened and understood the normal
length of cycle would make a difference so noted it somewhere. 'My' midwife
was happy with the calculation, others sometimes needed further
explanation.

>Second daughter I knew their nuggering date was wrong as Capt Ex was
>not home to start her and anyway I wanted a home birth, and spent 6
>months battling for it as they were unusual in 1975, not having
>enjoyed the hospital one. I was all set, Capt Ex home for delivery but
>at 10 days over their date they said come in and be induced tomorrow.
>
>Sensible daughter arrived that night. The midwife came out with 2
>students, as not many home births then, and it all stopped so she gave
>me sleeping pills and they departed. We were worried about calling
>again when it restarted but Capt Ex said Chief Officers do a medical
>course. I saw the film. I can deliver. He practically did have to. I
>was pushing daughter out whenwe called the midwife and co back.

:)
I don't suppose the film he saw included any possible complications.

In 1982 I was hoping for a home birth with (actual) #2. That enforced 10
day hospital stay for 1st baby was awful and I didn't want to do it again.
Sadly, problems developed and I had to book in at Lewisham hospital (as the
specialist hospital for such probs) 40 miles away, at 7 months. They did a
scan - my first ever - and kept me in. I went home a three days later
without a baby. It took about 3 months for D#1 to forgive my unexpected
abscence.

>That daughter had younger grandson at home too 6 years ago :).
>
>The NHS website also has other links
>
>https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/abortion/
>
>Really Chelsea could have and should have sorted the thing much
>earlier. There are arguments/ debates on fb about did she need to tell
>Ben if not having the baby. I think more information might have
>speeded her decision. Should she have told him as he was never going
>to be helping make it? I think the way he reacted, then involving both
>their mothers, was OTT and just what Chelsea didn't want or need.
>She had Tracy to support her. Jazzer knowing was unnecessary. Tracy
>knowing the father was too.

I had little trouble understanding Chelsea's behaviour (although there were
times I wanted to slap her). She's a kind and compassionate person, but
didn't feel heard. Her experience of men, based largely upon her father and
grandfather gave her very low expectations, although Jim helped a lot - the
PTF did a good job on him.

Ben, having been told about it, had no idea what to do. He felt ashamed,
guilty, and helpless, with no one useful to confide in because he had
promised not to tell anyone. He didn't think he deserved any help. For him,
it would certainly have been better if he had never known.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

On Tue, 1 Nov 2022 13:45:42 +0000, Jenny M Benson <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk>
scrawled in the dust...

>On 01/11/2022 13:35, Vicky wrote:
>> 'Some women's cycles are not exactly 28 days. Adjust the cycle length
>> if your cycle is shorter or longer than 28 days.'
>> So bettter than when we were pregnant.,I had a longer and irregular
>> cycle too and with first daughter they insisted on inducing her a few
>> days over their due date, not mine. She was not quite ready, I
>> thought.
>
>I knew (although I did not believe it at the time) exactly when (or
>shortly beforehand, to be precise) I became pregnant with my first
>because the first thing not-yet-my-husband said after "the deed" was "Oh
>God, I've just made you pregnant!"
>
>I thought he was joking (not funny) but he insisted he had known
>instantly with his 2 previous children. In due course there was the
>usual sign that I was NOT pregnant, but then I started having other
>symptoms of pregnancy and my next period didn't arrive. I then went to
>the Dr but I knew he wouldn't examine me if I said I was only 2 weeks
>overdue so I told him I had missed 2 periods. He prodded me and
>confirmed I was pregnant. (I chose my daughter's name on the way home!)

My mother, aged 39, having had six pregnancies, had no idea she was
pregnant again until she miscarried at 3-4 months.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959