Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

Reporter: "How did you like school when you were growing up, Yogi?" Yogi Berra: "Closed."


aus+uk / aus.aviation / Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

SubjectAuthor
* NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
`* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 +* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
 |+* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerDaryl
 ||`* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
 || +* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
 || |`- Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 || +* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerDaryl
 || |`* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
 || | +* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerDaryl
 || | |`* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
 || | | +* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerDaryl
 || | | |+- Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
 || | | |`* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 || | | | `* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
 || | | |  `- Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 || | | `* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 || | |  `* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
 || | |   `- Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 || | `* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 || |  `* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
 || |   +* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerDaryl
 || |   |+* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
 || |   ||+* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerDaryl
 || |   |||`* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
 || |   ||| `- Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 || |   ||`- Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 || |   |`* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 || |   | `- Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerDaryl
 || |   `* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 || |    `* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
 || |     +- Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 || |     `* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerDaryl
 || |      +- Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Phil Allison
 || |      `- Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
 || +* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerkeithr0
 || |`- Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
 || `* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 ||  `* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerDaryl
 ||   +* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
 ||   |`* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 ||   | `* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
 ||   |  +* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 ||   |  |`- Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 ||   |  `* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerDaryl
 ||   |   `* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
 ||   |    +* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerDaryl
 ||   |    |+* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 ||   |    ||`* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerDaryl
 ||   |    || `* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 ||   |    ||  `* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
 ||   |    ||   `* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 ||   |    ||    `* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
 ||   |    ||     `* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 ||   |    ||      `* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
 ||   |    ||       `* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 ||   |    ||        `- Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 ||   |    |+- Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
 ||   |    |`- Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
 ||   |    `- Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 ||   `- Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Phil Allison
 |`- Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
 `* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Phil Allison
  +* Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Petzl
  |+- Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)Phil Allison
  |`- Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed
  `- Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passengerRod Speed

Pages:123
Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<itl1jh5skeo3onsqjd89gahgik3o2fptpf@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1275&group=aus.aviation#1275

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: pet...@gmail.com (Petzl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 08:40:14 +1000
Lines: 127
Message-ID: <itl1jh5skeo3onsqjd89gahgik3o2fptpf@4ax.com>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com> <op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com> <jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net> <gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com> <jp9oaeF22v7U1@mid.individual.net> <tbdvih1ctoj2rsicu8msgjv0lkboh1ilq8@4ax.com> <jpa9pjF4m5lU1@mid.individual.net> <batvih99euuimaen79jn3m10po7r0gav59@4ax.com> <jpag28F5hc4U2@mid.individual.net> <op.1s2hc2k3byq249@pvr2.lan>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net RT91Hb1vNmtzATI2m7pi2QCV8DmQDzz9Ja8wxid/to2gr6qiv6
Cancel-Lock: sha1:tEgRnG/rC1nUEgPSu/vx0bq3pp0=
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
 by: Petzl - Sun, 25 Sep 2022 22:40 UTC

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 05:49:40 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 17:59:04 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote:
>
>> On 25/9/2022 4:47 pm, Petzl wrote:
>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 16:12:03 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 25/9/2022 12:15 pm, Petzl wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 11:13:50 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 10:36 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:56:21 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 9:22 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 06:15:56 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>>>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7tKXMYzwW4>
>>>>>>>>>>> TV news about this
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just more mindless sales bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> $20 and 20 minutes from Sydney Harbour to Newcastle
>>>>>>>>> The planes are limited from harbour to harbour
>>>>>>>>> A hour from Sydney/Botany to Melbourne harbour.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pure fantasy since they supposed only fly over water, the route
>>>>>>>> Syd to
>>>>>>>> Melb over water is considerably longer than over land and that
>>>>>>>> takes
>>>>>>>> about an hour.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They fly at 320 km/h, 10 metres above water
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Think it may have possibilities.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe ok for short haul flights or tourist transport, can't see it
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> of any use on major commuter routes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some of the Planes the NZ fleet is buying seats a 100 passengers
>>>>>>> (all
>>>>>>> economy Qantas seat 180) at 320km/h should be in Melbourne/St Kilda
>>>>>>> under 2.5 hours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Very unlikely, the distance over water would be more than 1200km, by
>>>>>> road its 889km plus the chances of the Govt allowing anyone to "fly"
>>>>>> 10mts above Port Phillip Bay at 320kph is zero simply because there
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> too many ships and boats on the bay.
>>>>>> I'd estimate the trip would take between 4 and 5hrs allowing for
>>>>>> having
>>>>>> to go a lot slower at either end plus the extra distance over water.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Big ships are now going to Botany.
>>>>> It was their 12 seater that does 320kp/h
>>>>> Their 100 seater Monarchs 800km range at nearly 540kph, yes by sea
>>>>> Syd/Mel is 1200 km so they just need higher range than the kiwi ones.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cruise ships are going to Darling Harbour early morning leave late.
>>>>> Not problematic with scheduling
>>>>>
>>>>> Be in St Kilda/Circular Quay in less than 1.5 hrs, yes they can fly
>>>>> under Sydney Harbour bridge, clearance over 49 metres.
>>>>>
>>>>> Did some more poking.
>>>>>
>>>>> "up to 800km at nearly 540kph in the 100-seater Monarchs using
>>>>> existing battery technology."
>>>>> <https://www.oceanflyer.co.nz/#:~:text=Achieving%20aircraft%20speeds%20at%20a,Monarchs%20using%20existing%20battery%20technology.>
>>>>> https://tinyurl.com/2pnn2teq
>>>>> SPEED & EFFICIENCY
>>>>> Achieving aircraft speeds at a fraction of the operating cost, the
>>>>> Ocean Flyer seagliders will transport passengers and cargo over
>>>>> distances of up to 300km at nearly 300kph in the 12-seater Viceroys
>>>>> and up to 800km at nearly 540kph in the 100-seater Monarchs using
>>>>> existing battery technology.
>>>>
>>>> I'll believe it when and if it happens, until then I'm a skeptic.
>>>>
>>> Europe/USA is buying them now.
>>> The problem presently is range, however they can now fly 800 miles
>>> which is needed by sea, Syd/Mel harbour to harbour.
>>> More positives are the craft can be from City centre to City centre,
>>> quiet and no pollution.
>>> For international flights jet hybrids are being developed.
>>>
>>> <https://www.afar.com/magazine/electric-planes-are-coming-sooner-than-you-think>
>>> https://tinyurl.com/2faxv6xg
>>> The past year has propelled the aviation industry ever closer toward a
>>> goal of viable commercial electric aircraft. United Airlines announced
>>> in July that it’s buying 100 19-seater, zero-emission electric planes
>>> from Swedish startup Heart Aerospace; they are set to take flight for
>>> short hops in the United States in 2026.
>>> Over in Europe, EasyJet’s partnership with U.S. startup Wright
>>> Electric has led to development plans for the Wright 1, an
>>> all-electric, 186-seat commercial passenger jet with an 800-mile range
>>> that’s targeted to enter service around 2030. Up sooner still, Wright
>>> Electric additionally announced in November plans for an electric
>>> 100-seater, the Wright Spirit, due out in 2026.
>>
>> There is one aspect that seems to be ignored, turn around time between
>> flights, jet aircraft can be turned around quickly but how long to
>> recharge an electric aircraft's batteries?
>> One way would be to have exchangeable battery packs that would need to
>> swapped them between flights.
>
>And that aint gunna work with the plane bouncing around on the water.
>
It flies 10 metres ABOVE the water,
The report I read was that battery swapping was not preferred by FAA
worried about damage on dock but were open about it, it may be the
manufacturers have come up with a acceptable method to do this?
--
Petzl
Gough Whitlam when Joe Riordan lost the seat of Philip in Sydney’s
eastern suburbs. “Comrade, comrade, how negligent of you. To lose a
seat in which there is not one but three cemeteries is unforgivable.”

I had an uncle that lived in Wellington. He voted Liberal all his
life until he passed away 10 years ago. Now he votes Labor.

Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<48m1jhlfdm24dm5pslcem7p18uv6qcuht0@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1276&group=aus.aviation#1276

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: pet...@gmail.com (Petzl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 08:45:48 +1000
Lines: 135
Message-ID: <48m1jhlfdm24dm5pslcem7p18uv6qcuht0@4ax.com>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com> <op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com> <jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net> <gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com> <jp9oaeF22v7U1@mid.individual.net> <tbdvih1ctoj2rsicu8msgjv0lkboh1ilq8@4ax.com> <jpa9pjF4m5lU1@mid.individual.net> <batvih99euuimaen79jn3m10po7r0gav59@4ax.com> <op.1s2g9vnhbyq249@pvr2.lan>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net 1tkk00EZDC4ZGO2CiuQrNw1cR8gzyYnE5lFXTJfDuQJ2L0j6oP
Cancel-Lock: sha1:wDyIiwQQVDvyYr3NsN20qbnhuPM=
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
 by: Petzl - Sun, 25 Sep 2022 22:45 UTC

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 05:47:45 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 16:47:29 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 16:12:03 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 25/9/2022 12:15 pm, Petzl wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 11:13:50 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 25/9/2022 10:36 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:56:21 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 9:22 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 06:15:56 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7tKXMYzwW4>
>>>>>>>>>> TV news about this
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just more mindless sales bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> $20 and 20 minutes from Sydney Harbour to Newcastle
>>>>>>>> The planes are limited from harbour to harbour
>>>>>>>> A hour from Sydney/Botany to Melbourne harbour.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pure fantasy since they supposed only fly over water, the route Syd
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> Melb over water is considerably longer than over land and that takes
>>>>>>> about an hour.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> They fly at 320 km/h, 10 metres above water
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Think it may have possibilities.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe ok for short haul flights or tourist transport, can't see it
>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>> of any use on major commuter routes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some of the Planes the NZ fleet is buying seats a 100 passengers (all
>>>>>> economy Qantas seat 180) at 320km/h should be in Melbourne/St Kilda
>>>>>> under 2.5 hours.
>>>>>
>>>>> Very unlikely, the distance over water would be more than 1200km, by
>>>>> road its 889km plus the chances of the Govt allowing anyone to "fly"
>>>>> 10mts above Port Phillip Bay at 320kph is zero simply because there
>>>>> are
>>>>> too many ships and boats on the bay.
>>>>> I'd estimate the trip would take between 4 and 5hrs allowing for
>>>>> having
>>>>> to go a lot slower at either end plus the extra distance over water.
>>>>>
>>>> Big ships are now going to Botany.
>>>> It was their 12 seater that does 320kp/h
>>>> Their 100 seater Monarchs 800km range at nearly 540kph, yes by sea
>>>> Syd/Mel is 1200 km so they just need higher range than the kiwi ones.
>>>>
>>>> Cruise ships are going to Darling Harbour early morning leave late.
>>>> Not problematic with scheduling
>>>>
>>>> Be in St Kilda/Circular Quay in less than 1.5 hrs, yes they can fly
>>>> under Sydney Harbour bridge, clearance over 49 metres.
>>>>
>>>> Did some more poking.
>>>>
>>>> "up to 800km at nearly 540kph in the 100-seater Monarchs using
>>>> existing battery technology."
>>>> <https://www.oceanflyer.co.nz/#:~:text=Achieving%20aircraft%20speeds%20at%20a,Monarchs%20using%20existing%20battery%20technology.>
>>>> https://tinyurl.com/2pnn2teq
>>>> SPEED & EFFICIENCY
>>>> Achieving aircraft speeds at a fraction of the operating cost, the
>>>> Ocean Flyer seagliders will transport passengers and cargo over
>>>> distances of up to 300km at nearly 300kph in the 12-seater Viceroys
>>>> and up to 800km at nearly 540kph in the 100-seater Monarchs using
>>>> existing battery technology.
>>>
>>> I'll believe it when and if it happens, until then I'm a skeptic.
>
>> Europe/USA is buying them now.
>
>BULLSHIT
>
>> The problem presently is range, however they can now fly 800 miles
>
>BULLSHIT.
>
>> which is needed by sea, Syd/Mel harbour to harbour.
>
>Pity about the ocean waves.
>
>> More positives are the craft can be from City centre to City centre,
>> quiet and no pollution.
>
>Pity about all the boats and ships and ferrys.
>
>> For international flights jet hybrids are being developed.
>
>Only between physically adjacent countrys.
>
>> <https://www.afar.com/magazine/electric-planes-are-coming-sooner-than-you-think>
>> https://tinyurl.com/2faxv6xg
>
>Just more mindless journo bullshit.
>
>> The past year has propelled the aviation industry ever closer toward a
>> goal of viable commercial electric aircraft. United Airlines announced
>> in July that it’s buying 100 19-seater, zero-emission electric planes
>> from Swedish startup Heart Aerospace; they are set to take flight for
>> short hops in the United States in 2026.
>
>Those arent sea skimmers, stupid.
>
>> Over in Europe, EasyJet’s partnership with U.S. startup Wright
>> Electric has led to development plans for the Wright 1, an
>> all-electric, 186-seat commercial passenger jet with an 800-mile range
>> that’s targeted to enter service around 2030. Up sooner still, Wright
>> Electric additionally announced in November plans for an electric
>> 100-seater, the Wright Spirit, due out in 2026.
>
>Those arent sea skimmers, stupid.

I knew that, they are also a different manufacturer and don't make sea
planes.
The planes NZ have bought do not skim the water (only for take off),
they fly ("hover") ten metres above the water which makes them more
efficient.
--
Petzl
Good lawyers know the law
Great lawyers know the judge

Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<3mm1jhdcftgv0utqfmrhfdhbhg25beemt6@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1277&group=aus.aviation#1277

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: pet...@gmail.com (Petzl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 08:53:06 +1000
Lines: 111
Message-ID: <3mm1jhdcftgv0utqfmrhfdhbhg25beemt6@4ax.com>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com> <op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com> <jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net> <gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com> <jp9oaeF22v7U1@mid.individual.net> <tbdvih1ctoj2rsicu8msgjv0lkboh1ilq8@4ax.com> <op.1s2gxym0byq249@pvr2.lan>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net fyCRUcPQ1umxMuwLlfyLjAxaWorNUv2ji3WBAIzWnBUl2oHbgS
Cancel-Lock: sha1:+Fzt8jd22S1BILhO57cwgyeQpzc=
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
 by: Petzl - Sun, 25 Sep 2022 22:53 UTC

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 05:40:36 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 12:15:35 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 11:13:50 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 25/9/2022 10:36 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:56:21 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 25/9/2022 9:22 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 06:15:56 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7tKXMYzwW4>
>>>>>>>> TV news about this
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just more mindless sales bullshit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> $20 and 20 minutes from Sydney Harbour to Newcastle
>>>>>> The planes are limited from harbour to harbour
>>>>>> A hour from Sydney/Botany to Melbourne harbour.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pure fantasy since they supposed only fly over water, the route Syd to
>>>>> Melb over water is considerably longer than over land and that takes
>>>>> about an hour.
>>>>>
>>>> They fly at 320 km/h, 10 metres above water
>>>>
>>>>>> Think it may have possibilities.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe ok for short haul flights or tourist transport, can't see it
>>>>> being
>>>>> of any use on major commuter routes.
>>>>>
>>>> Some of the Planes the NZ fleet is buying seats a 100 passengers (all
>>>> economy Qantas seat 180) at 320km/h should be in Melbourne/St Kilda
>>>> under 2.5 hours.
>>>
>>> Very unlikely, the distance over water would be more than 1200km, by
>>> road its 889km plus the chances of the Govt allowing anyone to "fly"
>>> 10mts above Port Phillip Bay at 320kph is zero simply because there are
>>> too many ships and boats on the bay.
>>> I'd estimate the trip would take between 4 and 5hrs allowing for having
>>> to go a lot slower at either end plus the extra distance over water.
>
>> Big ships are now going to Botany.
>
>Pity about Newcastle and Melburg.
>
>Pity about the boats, ferrys etc.
>
>> It was their 12 seater that does 320kp/h
>
>There is no plane that does anything like that, its fantasy.
>
>> Their 100 seater Monarchs 800km range at nearly 540kph,
>
>There is no plane that does anything like that, its fantasy.
>
>> yes by sea
>> Syd/Mel is 1200 km so they just need higher range than the kiwi ones.
>
>Pity about the ocean waves.
>
>> Cruise ships are going to Darling Harbour early morning leave late.
>> Not problematic with scheduling
>
>Pity about the other end.
>
>> Be in St Kilda/Circular Quay in less than 1.5 hrs,
>
>Nof a chance.
>
>> yes they can fly
>> under Sydney Harbour bridge, clearance over 49 metres.
>
>Pity about the ocean waves.
>
read on McDuff. That does not seem a issue in NZ.

https://www.oceanflyer.co.nz
TECHNOLOGY
Seagliders make use of the ‘wing-in-ground-effect (WIG)’ and have been
built to leverage existing port infrastructure. The seagliders begin
their journey with the hull in the water, rising onto foils as the
speed increases before eventually generating lift so that the
seaglider begins to fly in-ground-effect at about 10m above the water.

The aerodynamic advantage of the “ground effect” includes significant
operational efficiencies, increased payload capability, greater range
and speed.

Achieving aircraft speeds at a fraction of the operating cost, the
Ocean Flyer seagliders will transport passengers and cargo over
distances of up to 300km at nearly 300kph in the 12-seater Viceroys
and up to 800km at nearly 540kph in the 100-seater Monarchs using
existing battery technology.

The efficiency of seagliders means the operational costs are greatly
reduced compared to existing modes of transportation. These savings
will be passed on to the customer meaning travel fares will be up to
70% cheaper, without sacrificing time, comfort or experience.
--
Petzl
Good lawyers know the law
Great lawyers know the judge

Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<jpc823Fdpu7U2@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1278&group=aus.aviation#1278

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger
freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 09:54:43 +1000
Lines: 63
Message-ID: <jpc823Fdpu7U2@mid.individual.net>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com>
<op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com>
<jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net>
<gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com> <op.1s2gjmpebyq249@pvr2.lan>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net O+v+ngDyU2Mn2ZiYZw9Gowa3FBLV8gDQ1migY26MSLQ+RMLpkN
Cancel-Lock: sha1:bOHVrflYJaxvqd8LW3jRSS5YHqU=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.3.0
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <op.1s2gjmpebyq249@pvr2.lan>
 by: Daryl - Sun, 25 Sep 2022 23:54 UTC

On 26/9/2022 5:32 am, Rod Speed wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 10:36:09 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:56:21 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 25/9/2022 9:22 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 06:15:56 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7tKXMYzwW4>
>>>>>> TV news about this
>>>>>
>>>>> Just more mindless sales bullshit.
>>>>>
>>>> $20 and 20 minutes from Sydney Harbour to Newcastle
>>>> The planes are limited from harbour to harbour
>>>> A hour from Sydney/Botany to Melbourne harbour.
>>>
>>> Pure fantasy since they supposed only fly over water, the route Syd to
>>> Melb over water is considerably longer than over land and that takes
>>> about an hour.
>
>> They fly at 320 km/h, 10 metres above water
>
> Not when there are decent waves they dont.
>
>>>> Think it may have possibilities.
>>>
>>> Maybe ok for short haul flights or tourist transport, can't see it being
>>> of any use on major commuter routes.
>
>> Some of the Planes the NZ fleet is buying seats a 100 passengers
>
> Bullshit. And NZ isnt buying any.
>
>> (all economy Qantas seat 180)
>
> Wrong with the Dash 8s and SAAB 340Bs that QantasLink and Rex use.
>
>> at 320km/h should be in Melbourne/St Kilda  under 2.5 hours.
>
> No chance and those steaming turds don't have the range for that.
>
>>>> Guessing the price but are really cheap (25% the cost) compared to
>>>> passenger jets, 4 times quicker than road or 8 times than a  train.
>>>
>>> See above, not that fast at all if they have to fly over water.
>>>
>> Thought so at first but worked out their speed is around 320 km/h?
>> Altitude 10 metres above water.
>
> Not even possible with ocean waves.

Not going to be safe with some waves well in excess of 10mtrs when you
get near Bass Strait.

--
Daryl

Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<jpc8d5Fdpu7U3@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1279&group=aus.aviation#1279

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger
freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 10:00:37 +1000
Lines: 119
Message-ID: <jpc8d5Fdpu7U3@mid.individual.net>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com>
<op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com>
<jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net>
<gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com>
<jp9oaeF22v7U1@mid.individual.net>
<tbdvih1ctoj2rsicu8msgjv0lkboh1ilq8@4ax.com> <op.1s2gxym0byq249@pvr2.lan>
<3mm1jhdcftgv0utqfmrhfdhbhg25beemt6@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net ibLSfeDSmKBp86XqmuBkgADPOUiO7GuUoi1MVjPf9MQy9cNyFA
Cancel-Lock: sha1:dw4O8l7YU95ad3AC3eIrUnRYZls=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.3.0
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <3mm1jhdcftgv0utqfmrhfdhbhg25beemt6@4ax.com>
 by: Daryl - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 00:00 UTC

On 26/9/2022 8:53 am, Petzl wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 05:40:36 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 12:15:35 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 11:13:50 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 25/9/2022 10:36 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:56:21 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 9:22 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 06:15:56 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7tKXMYzwW4>
>>>>>>>>> TV news about this
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just more mindless sales bullshit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> $20 and 20 minutes from Sydney Harbour to Newcastle
>>>>>>> The planes are limited from harbour to harbour
>>>>>>> A hour from Sydney/Botany to Melbourne harbour.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pure fantasy since they supposed only fly over water, the route Syd to
>>>>>> Melb over water is considerably longer than over land and that takes
>>>>>> about an hour.
>>>>>>
>>>>> They fly at 320 km/h, 10 metres above water
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Think it may have possibilities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe ok for short haul flights or tourist transport, can't see it
>>>>>> being
>>>>>> of any use on major commuter routes.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Some of the Planes the NZ fleet is buying seats a 100 passengers (all
>>>>> economy Qantas seat 180) at 320km/h should be in Melbourne/St Kilda
>>>>> under 2.5 hours.
>>>>
>>>> Very unlikely, the distance over water would be more than 1200km, by
>>>> road its 889km plus the chances of the Govt allowing anyone to "fly"
>>>> 10mts above Port Phillip Bay at 320kph is zero simply because there are
>>>> too many ships and boats on the bay.
>>>> I'd estimate the trip would take between 4 and 5hrs allowing for having
>>>> to go a lot slower at either end plus the extra distance over water.
>>
>>> Big ships are now going to Botany.
>>
>> Pity about Newcastle and Melburg.
>>
>> Pity about the boats, ferrys etc.
>>
>>> It was their 12 seater that does 320kp/h
>>
>> There is no plane that does anything like that, its fantasy.
>>
>>> Their 100 seater Monarchs 800km range at nearly 540kph,
>>
>> There is no plane that does anything like that, its fantasy.
>>
>>> yes by sea
>>> Syd/Mel is 1200 km so they just need higher range than the kiwi ones.
>>
>> Pity about the ocean waves.
>>
>>> Cruise ships are going to Darling Harbour early morning leave late.
>>> Not problematic with scheduling
>>
>> Pity about the other end.
>>
>>> Be in St Kilda/Circular Quay in less than 1.5 hrs,
>>
>> Nof a chance.
>>
>>> yes they can fly
>>> under Sydney Harbour bridge, clearance over 49 metres.
>>
>> Pity about the ocean waves.
>>
> read on McDuff. That does not seem a issue in NZ.
>
> https://www.oceanflyer.co.nz
> TECHNOLOGY
> Seagliders make use of the ‘wing-in-ground-effect (WIG)’ and have been
> built to leverage existing port infrastructure. The seagliders begin
> their journey with the hull in the water, rising onto foils as the
> speed increases before eventually generating lift so that the
> seaglider begins to fly in-ground-effect at about 10m above the water.
>
> The aerodynamic advantage of the “ground effect” includes significant
> operational efficiencies, increased payload capability, greater range
> and speed.
>
> Achieving aircraft speeds at a fraction of the operating cost, the
> Ocean Flyer seagliders will transport passengers and cargo over
> distances of up to 300km at nearly 300kph in the 12-seater Viceroys
> and up to 800km at nearly 540kph in the 100-seater Monarchs using
> existing battery technology.
>
> The efficiency of seagliders means the operational costs are greatly
> reduced compared to existing modes of transportation. These savings
> will be passed on to the customer meaning travel fares will be up to
> 70% cheaper, without sacrificing time, comfort or experience.

I can imagine some scenarios where such an aircraft would work well but
to suggest that could "fly" Syd to Melb" is just out of the question.
To be safe from waves and large ships it would need to fly at least
100mtrs high then it would be out of ground effect so no advantage over
conventional aircraft.

--
Daryl

Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<8ir1jhthnifnkgpmqrjova5pl2mqfi1vgv@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1280&group=aus.aviation#1280

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: pet...@gmail.com (Petzl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 10:21:01 +1000
Lines: 126
Message-ID: <8ir1jhthnifnkgpmqrjova5pl2mqfi1vgv@4ax.com>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com> <op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com> <jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net> <gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com> <jp9oaeF22v7U1@mid.individual.net> <tbdvih1ctoj2rsicu8msgjv0lkboh1ilq8@4ax.com> <op.1s2gxym0byq249@pvr2.lan> <3mm1jhdcftgv0utqfmrhfdhbhg25beemt6@4ax.com> <jpc8d5Fdpu7U3@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net dmzJxtLC+Mckd8WRB8gk7gxjkZ4ztvdDneCedRcgxToyXs2f02
Cancel-Lock: sha1:bv6gsOPqEJgQVQP4ilN12gH3Dzg=
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
 by: Petzl - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 00:21 UTC

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 10:00:37 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
wrote:

>On 26/9/2022 8:53 am, Petzl wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 05:40:36 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 12:15:35 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 11:13:50 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 25/9/2022 10:36 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:56:21 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 9:22 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 06:15:56 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7tKXMYzwW4>
>>>>>>>>>> TV news about this
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just more mindless sales bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> $20 and 20 minutes from Sydney Harbour to Newcastle
>>>>>>>> The planes are limited from harbour to harbour
>>>>>>>> A hour from Sydney/Botany to Melbourne harbour.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pure fantasy since they supposed only fly over water, the route Syd to
>>>>>>> Melb over water is considerably longer than over land and that takes
>>>>>>> about an hour.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> They fly at 320 km/h, 10 metres above water
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Think it may have possibilities.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe ok for short haul flights or tourist transport, can't see it
>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>> of any use on major commuter routes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some of the Planes the NZ fleet is buying seats a 100 passengers (all
>>>>>> economy Qantas seat 180) at 320km/h should be in Melbourne/St Kilda
>>>>>> under 2.5 hours.
>>>>>
>>>>> Very unlikely, the distance over water would be more than 1200km, by
>>>>> road its 889km plus the chances of the Govt allowing anyone to "fly"
>>>>> 10mts above Port Phillip Bay at 320kph is zero simply because there are
>>>>> too many ships and boats on the bay.
>>>>> I'd estimate the trip would take between 4 and 5hrs allowing for having
>>>>> to go a lot slower at either end plus the extra distance over water.
>>>
>>>> Big ships are now going to Botany.
>>>
>>> Pity about Newcastle and Melburg.
>>>
>>> Pity about the boats, ferrys etc.
>>>
>>>> It was their 12 seater that does 320kp/h
>>>
>>> There is no plane that does anything like that, its fantasy.
>>>
>>>> Their 100 seater Monarchs 800km range at nearly 540kph,
>>>
>>> There is no plane that does anything like that, its fantasy.
>>>
>>>> yes by sea
>>>> Syd/Mel is 1200 km so they just need higher range than the kiwi ones.
>>>
>>> Pity about the ocean waves.
>>>
>>>> Cruise ships are going to Darling Harbour early morning leave late.
>>>> Not problematic with scheduling
>>>
>>> Pity about the other end.
>>>
>>>> Be in St Kilda/Circular Quay in less than 1.5 hrs,
>>>
>>> Nof a chance.
>>>
>>>> yes they can fly
>>>> under Sydney Harbour bridge, clearance over 49 metres.
>>>
>>> Pity about the ocean waves.
>>>
>> read on McDuff. That does not seem a issue in NZ.
>>
>> https://www.oceanflyer.co.nz
>> TECHNOLOGY
>> Seagliders make use of the ‘wing-in-ground-effect (WIG)’ and have been
>> built to leverage existing port infrastructure. The seagliders begin
>> their journey with the hull in the water, rising onto foils as the
>> speed increases before eventually generating lift so that the
>> seaglider begins to fly in-ground-effect at about 10m above the water.
>>
>> The aerodynamic advantage of the “ground effect” includes significant
>> operational efficiencies, increased payload capability, greater range
>> and speed.
>>
>> Achieving aircraft speeds at a fraction of the operating cost, the
>> Ocean Flyer seagliders will transport passengers and cargo over
>> distances of up to 300km at nearly 300kph in the 12-seater Viceroys
>> and up to 800km at nearly 540kph in the 100-seater Monarchs using
>> existing battery technology.
>>
>> The efficiency of seagliders means the operational costs are greatly
>> reduced compared to existing modes of transportation. These savings
>> will be passed on to the customer meaning travel fares will be up to
>> 70% cheaper, without sacrificing time, comfort or experience.
>
>I can imagine some scenarios where such an aircraft would work well but
>to suggest that could "fly" Syd to Melb" is just out of the question.
>To be safe from waves and large ships it would need to fly at least
>100mtrs high then it would be out of ground effect so no advantage over
>conventional aircraft.
>
Don't know, your field. but one of those backing this is New Zealand
Ex Air Force chief John Hamilton is among the earliest customers.
Auckland and Christchurch it doesn't seem a problem they have more
shipping than Sydney Harbour, a lot of Yachts as well
--
Petzl
Good lawyers know the law
Great lawyers know the judge

Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<h6s1jhpeprehsndvu4idp8uhdjo9ag876k@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1281&group=aus.aviation#1281

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: pet...@gmail.com (Petzl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 10:25:46 +1000
Lines: 76
Message-ID: <h6s1jhpeprehsndvu4idp8uhdjo9ag876k@4ax.com>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com> <op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com> <jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net> <gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com> <op.1s2gjmpebyq249@pvr2.lan> <jpc823Fdpu7U2@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net v2sqcEXWsReB0CIN4Mq93gu9uNobl0yU8+BhfxxavhX3z9GZvB
Cancel-Lock: sha1:ZHCvC1lLRi/QFtrO4dfXZCzziyA=
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
 by: Petzl - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 00:25 UTC

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 09:54:43 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
wrote:

>On 26/9/2022 5:32 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 10:36:09 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:56:21 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 25/9/2022 9:22 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 06:15:56 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7tKXMYzwW4>
>>>>>>> TV news about this
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just more mindless sales bullshit.
>>>>>>
>>>>> $20 and 20 minutes from Sydney Harbour to Newcastle
>>>>> The planes are limited from harbour to harbour
>>>>> A hour from Sydney/Botany to Melbourne harbour.
>>>>
>>>> Pure fantasy since they supposed only fly over water, the route Syd to
>>>> Melb over water is considerably longer than over land and that takes
>>>> about an hour.
>>
>>> They fly at 320 km/h, 10 metres above water
>>
>> Not when there are decent waves they dont.
>>
>>>>> Think it may have possibilities.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe ok for short haul flights or tourist transport, can't see it being
>>>> of any use on major commuter routes.
>>
>>> Some of the Planes the NZ fleet is buying seats a 100 passengers
>>
>> Bullshit. And NZ isnt buying any.
>>
>>> (all economy Qantas seat 180)
>>
>> Wrong with the Dash 8s and SAAB 340Bs that QantasLink and Rex use.
>>
>>> at 320km/h should be in Melbourne/St Kilda  under 2.5 hours.
>>
>> No chance and those steaming turds don't have the range for that.
>>
>>>>> Guessing the price but are really cheap (25% the cost) compared to
>>>>> passenger jets, 4 times quicker than road or 8 times than a  train.
>>>>
>>>> See above, not that fast at all if they have to fly over water.
>>>>
>>> Thought so at first but worked out their speed is around 320 km/h?
>>> Altitude 10 metres above water.
>>
>> Not even possible with ocean waves.
>
>Not going to be safe with some waves well in excess of 10mtrs when you
>get near Bass Strait.

Bad weather a canceled flight.
<https://www.ourcoast.org.au/inundation_report/ch03s02s04.php#:~:text=The%20measured%20significant%20wave%20height,m%20during%20winter%20and%20spring.>
https://tinyurl.com/2zw27uf6
How big can the waves get in the Bass Strait?

The measured significant wave height reaches 6.4 m, with at least 50%
of the waves being between 1 and 2 m. The average significant wave
height over all seasons at this location is 1.7 m. Seasonally, the
average wave height drops to 1.6 m in summer and autumn and returns to
1.7 m during winter and spring.
--
Petzl
Good lawyers know the law
Great lawyers know the judge

Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<b8b7c9ac-f7ed-4cf0-a29d-ebae1a09ce09n@googlegroups.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1282&group=aus.aviation#1282

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
X-Received: by 2002:a37:bd84:0:b0:6cf:6049:f12a with SMTP id n126-20020a37bd84000000b006cf6049f12amr12489053qkf.697.1664155088433;
Sun, 25 Sep 2022 18:18:08 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1a9e:b0:35b:bb69:bc99 with SMTP id
s30-20020a05622a1a9e00b0035bbb69bc99mr16417611qtc.385.1664155088251; Sun, 25
Sep 2022 18:18:08 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!feed1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 18:18:08 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <jpc823Fdpu7U2@mid.individual.net>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=14.201.193.24; posting-account=B_tJMAoAAAAmar-1r2H3x4CMhbFEou3n
NNTP-Posting-Host: 14.201.193.24
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com> <op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com> <jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net>
<gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com> <op.1s2gjmpebyq249@pvr2.lan> <jpc823Fdpu7U2@mid.individual.net>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <b8b7c9ac-f7ed-4cf0-a29d-ebae1a09ce09n@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
Injection-Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 01:18:08 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 2544
 by: Phil Allison - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 01:18 UTC

Daryl wrote:
===========

> >>> See above, not that fast at all if they have to fly over water.
> >>>
> >> Thought so at first but worked out their speed is around 320 km/h?
> >> Altitude 10 metres above water.
> >
> > Not even possible with ocean waves.
>
> Not going to be safe with some waves well in excess of 10mtrs when you
> get near Bass Strait.

** The idea has been tried and failed hopelessly.

FYI;
Ground effect only produces a modest increase in lift, when flying low over a smooth surface.
It does nothing for aerodynamic drag which it at its very highest at sea level.
Planes fly at high altitude for a reason, cos it can easily double the speed and hence range for the same fuel usage.

Flying in ground effect over the ocean at high speeds is not practical - the sudden variations in lift created by waves shake the wing violently, so pax get a horrible ride and will cause fatigue & wing failures.
The Buccaneer nuclear bomber used to do something like it to avoid radar, the effect on plane and pilots was frightening.

Funny that the scam is being tried in NZ, the dumb sheep shaggers will believe anything.

..... Phil

Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<jpcdmbFepjkU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1283&group=aus.aviation#1283

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger
freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 11:30:51 +1000
Lines: 134
Message-ID: <jpcdmbFepjkU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com>
<op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com>
<jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net>
<gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com>
<jp9oaeF22v7U1@mid.individual.net>
<tbdvih1ctoj2rsicu8msgjv0lkboh1ilq8@4ax.com> <op.1s2gxym0byq249@pvr2.lan>
<3mm1jhdcftgv0utqfmrhfdhbhg25beemt6@4ax.com>
<jpc8d5Fdpu7U3@mid.individual.net>
<8ir1jhthnifnkgpmqrjova5pl2mqfi1vgv@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net 1Mhy+VeoxXFQf5zzKImz2AGIvQH3WZhHOmGZdmU3GjvjYZkHkp
Cancel-Lock: sha1:reb8LH8vFSIo1hmsM/GzGTrxMCk=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.3.0
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <8ir1jhthnifnkgpmqrjova5pl2mqfi1vgv@4ax.com>
 by: Daryl - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 01:30 UTC

On 26/9/2022 10:21 am, Petzl wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 10:00:37 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>> On 26/9/2022 8:53 am, Petzl wrote:
>>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 05:40:36 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 12:15:35 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 11:13:50 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 10:36 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:56:21 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 9:22 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 06:15:56 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>>>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7tKXMYzwW4>
>>>>>>>>>>> TV news about this
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just more mindless sales bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> $20 and 20 minutes from Sydney Harbour to Newcastle
>>>>>>>>> The planes are limited from harbour to harbour
>>>>>>>>> A hour from Sydney/Botany to Melbourne harbour.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pure fantasy since they supposed only fly over water, the route Syd to
>>>>>>>> Melb over water is considerably longer than over land and that takes
>>>>>>>> about an hour.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They fly at 320 km/h, 10 metres above water
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Think it may have possibilities.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe ok for short haul flights or tourist transport, can't see it
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> of any use on major commuter routes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some of the Planes the NZ fleet is buying seats a 100 passengers (all
>>>>>>> economy Qantas seat 180) at 320km/h should be in Melbourne/St Kilda
>>>>>>> under 2.5 hours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Very unlikely, the distance over water would be more than 1200km, by
>>>>>> road its 889km plus the chances of the Govt allowing anyone to "fly"
>>>>>> 10mts above Port Phillip Bay at 320kph is zero simply because there are
>>>>>> too many ships and boats on the bay.
>>>>>> I'd estimate the trip would take between 4 and 5hrs allowing for having
>>>>>> to go a lot slower at either end plus the extra distance over water.
>>>>
>>>>> Big ships are now going to Botany.
>>>>
>>>> Pity about Newcastle and Melburg.
>>>>
>>>> Pity about the boats, ferrys etc.
>>>>
>>>>> It was their 12 seater that does 320kp/h
>>>>
>>>> There is no plane that does anything like that, its fantasy.
>>>>
>>>>> Their 100 seater Monarchs 800km range at nearly 540kph,
>>>>
>>>> There is no plane that does anything like that, its fantasy.
>>>>
>>>>> yes by sea
>>>>> Syd/Mel is 1200 km so they just need higher range than the kiwi ones.
>>>>
>>>> Pity about the ocean waves.
>>>>
>>>>> Cruise ships are going to Darling Harbour early morning leave late.
>>>>> Not problematic with scheduling
>>>>
>>>> Pity about the other end.
>>>>
>>>>> Be in St Kilda/Circular Quay in less than 1.5 hrs,
>>>>
>>>> Nof a chance.
>>>>
>>>>> yes they can fly
>>>>> under Sydney Harbour bridge, clearance over 49 metres.
>>>>
>>>> Pity about the ocean waves.
>>>>
>>> read on McDuff. That does not seem a issue in NZ.
>>>
>>> https://www.oceanflyer.co.nz
>>> TECHNOLOGY
>>> Seagliders make use of the ‘wing-in-ground-effect (WIG)’ and have been
>>> built to leverage existing port infrastructure. The seagliders begin
>>> their journey with the hull in the water, rising onto foils as the
>>> speed increases before eventually generating lift so that the
>>> seaglider begins to fly in-ground-effect at about 10m above the water.
>>>
>>> The aerodynamic advantage of the “ground effect” includes significant
>>> operational efficiencies, increased payload capability, greater range
>>> and speed.
>>>
>>> Achieving aircraft speeds at a fraction of the operating cost, the
>>> Ocean Flyer seagliders will transport passengers and cargo over
>>> distances of up to 300km at nearly 300kph in the 12-seater Viceroys
>>> and up to 800km at nearly 540kph in the 100-seater Monarchs using
>>> existing battery technology.
>>>
>>> The efficiency of seagliders means the operational costs are greatly
>>> reduced compared to existing modes of transportation. These savings
>>> will be passed on to the customer meaning travel fares will be up to
>>> 70% cheaper, without sacrificing time, comfort or experience.
>>
>> I can imagine some scenarios where such an aircraft would work well but
>> to suggest that could "fly" Syd to Melb" is just out of the question.
>> To be safe from waves and large ships it would need to fly at least
>> 100mtrs high then it would be out of ground effect so no advantage over
>> conventional aircraft.
>>
> Don't know, your field. but one of those backing this is New Zealand
> Ex Air Force chief John Hamilton is among the earliest customers.

Like I said such an aircraft could work well in a certain circumstances,
Syd/Melb just isn't one of those circumstances.

> Auckland and Christchurch it doesn't seem a problem they have more
> shipping than Sydney Harbour, a lot of Yachts as well

Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

--
Daryl

Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<3l12jh5u7hhcmemr809p2um3rotrdhqvdd@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1284&group=aus.aviation#1284

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: pet...@gmail.com (Petzl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:05:46 +1000
Lines: 152
Message-ID: <3l12jh5u7hhcmemr809p2um3rotrdhqvdd@4ax.com>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com> <op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com> <jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net> <gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com> <jp9oaeF22v7U1@mid.individual.net> <tbdvih1ctoj2rsicu8msgjv0lkboh1ilq8@4ax.com> <op.1s2gxym0byq249@pvr2.lan> <3mm1jhdcftgv0utqfmrhfdhbhg25beemt6@4ax.com> <jpc8d5Fdpu7U3@mid.individual.net> <8ir1jhthnifnkgpmqrjova5pl2mqfi1vgv@4ax.com> <jpcdmbFepjkU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net +XJBOMPOD9KaOMTLF1PKewH4JnJ09T7YkloDN7iTLHIf8ppEXb
Cancel-Lock: sha1:WgEzCfMJ9+1S+TCNcdY8IjIh/Ns=
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
 by: Petzl - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 02:05 UTC

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 11:30:51 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
wrote:

>On 26/9/2022 10:21 am, Petzl wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 10:00:37 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 26/9/2022 8:53 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 05:40:36 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 12:15:35 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 11:13:50 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 10:36 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:56:21 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 9:22 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 06:15:56 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>>>>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7tKXMYzwW4>
>>>>>>>>>>>> TV news about this
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Just more mindless sales bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> $20 and 20 minutes from Sydney Harbour to Newcastle
>>>>>>>>>> The planes are limited from harbour to harbour
>>>>>>>>>> A hour from Sydney/Botany to Melbourne harbour.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pure fantasy since they supposed only fly over water, the route Syd to
>>>>>>>>> Melb over water is considerably longer than over land and that takes
>>>>>>>>> about an hour.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They fly at 320 km/h, 10 metres above water
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Think it may have possibilities.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Maybe ok for short haul flights or tourist transport, can't see it
>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>> of any use on major commuter routes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Some of the Planes the NZ fleet is buying seats a 100 passengers (all
>>>>>>>> economy Qantas seat 180) at 320km/h should be in Melbourne/St Kilda
>>>>>>>> under 2.5 hours.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Very unlikely, the distance over water would be more than 1200km, by
>>>>>>> road its 889km plus the chances of the Govt allowing anyone to "fly"
>>>>>>> 10mts above Port Phillip Bay at 320kph is zero simply because there are
>>>>>>> too many ships and boats on the bay.
>>>>>>> I'd estimate the trip would take between 4 and 5hrs allowing for having
>>>>>>> to go a lot slower at either end plus the extra distance over water.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Big ships are now going to Botany.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pity about Newcastle and Melburg.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pity about the boats, ferrys etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>> It was their 12 seater that does 320kp/h
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no plane that does anything like that, its fantasy.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Their 100 seater Monarchs 800km range at nearly 540kph,
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no plane that does anything like that, its fantasy.
>>>>>
>>>>>> yes by sea
>>>>>> Syd/Mel is 1200 km so they just need higher range than the kiwi ones.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pity about the ocean waves.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Cruise ships are going to Darling Harbour early morning leave late.
>>>>>> Not problematic with scheduling
>>>>>
>>>>> Pity about the other end.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Be in St Kilda/Circular Quay in less than 1.5 hrs,
>>>>>
>>>>> Nof a chance.
>>>>>
>>>>>> yes they can fly
>>>>>> under Sydney Harbour bridge, clearance over 49 metres.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pity about the ocean waves.
>>>>>
>>>> read on McDuff. That does not seem a issue in NZ.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.oceanflyer.co.nz
>>>> TECHNOLOGY
>>>> Seagliders make use of the ‘wing-in-ground-effect (WIG)’ and have been
>>>> built to leverage existing port infrastructure. The seagliders begin
>>>> their journey with the hull in the water, rising onto foils as the
>>>> speed increases before eventually generating lift so that the
>>>> seaglider begins to fly in-ground-effect at about 10m above the water.
>>>>
>>>> The aerodynamic advantage of the “ground effect” includes significant
>>>> operational efficiencies, increased payload capability, greater range
>>>> and speed.
>>>>
>>>> Achieving aircraft speeds at a fraction of the operating cost, the
>>>> Ocean Flyer seagliders will transport passengers and cargo over
>>>> distances of up to 300km at nearly 300kph in the 12-seater Viceroys
>>>> and up to 800km at nearly 540kph in the 100-seater Monarchs using
>>>> existing battery technology.
>>>>
>>>> The efficiency of seagliders means the operational costs are greatly
>>>> reduced compared to existing modes of transportation. These savings
>>>> will be passed on to the customer meaning travel fares will be up to
>>>> 70% cheaper, without sacrificing time, comfort or experience.
>>>
>>> I can imagine some scenarios where such an aircraft would work well but
>>> to suggest that could "fly" Syd to Melb" is just out of the question.
>>> To be safe from waves and large ships it would need to fly at least
>>> 100mtrs high then it would be out of ground effect so no advantage over
>>> conventional aircraft.
>>>
>> Don't know, your field. but one of those backing this is New Zealand
>> Ex Air Force chief John Hamilton is among the earliest customers.
>
>Like I said such an aircraft could work well in a certain circumstances,
>Syd/Melb just isn't one of those circumstances.
>
>> Auckland and Christchurch it doesn't seem a problem they have more
>> shipping than Sydney Harbour, a lot of Yachts as well
>
>Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
>
What could go wrong
https://youtu.be/bzAUX9DkrVY
Turns out the planes can climb to 40 metres no trouble.
Yes there are 40 metre high waves!
They have also their eyes on Sydney and pacific Islands.
<https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/green-travel/300591084/first-footage-of-new-electric-seagliders-coming-to-new-zealand>
https://tinyurl.com/2kjl64fp
Aslam also revealed early plans to expand operations across the Tasman
and to the Pacific, after the New Zealand network was established.
He described a "triangle" of operations that would connect New
Zealand, Australia and countries in the Pacific such as Fiji, Tonga
and Samoa.
Aslam explains big swells won't be a problem in most conditions, as
the optimal height a seaglider operates above the water is 10 metres –
but that can extend up to 30-40 metres.
--
Petzl
Good lawyers know the law
Great lawyers know the judge

Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<op.1s20aghebyq249@pvr2.lan>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1285&group=aus.aviation#1285

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger
freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:38:30 +1000
Lines: 172
Message-ID: <op.1s20aghebyq249@pvr2.lan>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com>
<op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com>
<jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net>
<gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com>
<jp9oaeF22v7U1@mid.individual.net>
<tbdvih1ctoj2rsicu8msgjv0lkboh1ilq8@4ax.com>
<jpa9pjF4m5lU1@mid.individual.net>
<batvih99euuimaen79jn3m10po7r0gav59@4ax.com>
<jpag28F5hc4U2@mid.individual.net> <op.1s2hc2k3byq249@pvr2.lan>
<itl1jh5skeo3onsqjd89gahgik3o2fptpf@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable
X-Trace: individual.net uWUtl7vjoh6eOK9a5Zh1HQfLqCQZytEVNITYaWwsv5CV2VFGo=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:/msAhFst5hl6rygWNcv087KgwuU=
User-Agent: Opera Mail/1.0 (Win32)
 by: Rod Speed - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 02:38 UTC

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 08:40:14 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 05:49:40 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 17:59:04 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 25/9/2022 4:47 pm, Petzl wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 16:12:03 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 25/9/2022 12:15 pm, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 11:13:50 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 10:36 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:56:21 +1000, Daryl
>>>>>>>> <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 9:22 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 06:15:56 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>>>>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7tKXMYzwW4>
>>>>>>>>>>>> TV news about this
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Just more mindless sales bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> $20 and 20 minutes from Sydney Harbour to Newcastle
>>>>>>>>>> The planes are limited from harbour to harbour
>>>>>>>>>> A hour from Sydney/Botany to Melbourne harbour.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pure fantasy since they supposed only fly over water, the route
>>>>>>>>> Syd to
>>>>>>>>> Melb over water is considerably longer than over land and that
>>>>>>>>> takes
>>>>>>>>> about an hour.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They fly at 320 km/h, 10 metres above water
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Think it may have possibilities.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Maybe ok for short haul flights or tourist transport, can't see
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>> of any use on major commuter routes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Some of the Planes the NZ fleet is buying seats a 100 passengers
>>>>>>>> (all
>>>>>>>> economy Qantas seat 180) at 320km/h should be in Melbourne/St
>>>>>>>> Kilda
>>>>>>>> under 2.5 hours.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Very unlikely, the distance over water would be more than 1200km,
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> road its 889km plus the chances of the Govt allowing anyone to
>>>>>>> "fly"
>>>>>>> 10mts above Port Phillip Bay at 320kph is zero simply because there
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> too many ships and boats on the bay.
>>>>>>> I'd estimate the trip would take between 4 and 5hrs allowing for
>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>> to go a lot slower at either end plus the extra distance over
>>>>>>> water.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Big ships are now going to Botany.
>>>>>> It was their 12 seater that does 320kp/h
>>>>>> Their 100 seater Monarchs 800km range at nearly 540kph, yes by sea
>>>>>> Syd/Mel is 1200 km so they just need higher range than the kiwi
>>>>>> ones.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cruise ships are going to Darling Harbour early morning leave late.
>>>>>> Not problematic with scheduling
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Be in St Kilda/Circular Quay in less than 1.5 hrs, yes they can fly
>>>>>> under Sydney Harbour bridge, clearance over 49 metres.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did some more poking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "up to 800km at nearly 540kph in the 100-seater Monarchs using
>>>>>> existing battery technology."
>>>>>> <https://www.oceanflyer.co.nz/#:~:text=Achieving%20aircraft%20speeds%20at%20a,Monarchs%20using%20existing%20battery%20technology.>
>>>>>> https://tinyurl.com/2pnn2teq
>>>>>> SPEED & EFFICIENCY
>>>>>> Achieving aircraft speeds at a fraction of the operating cost, the
>>>>>> Ocean Flyer seagliders will transport passengers and cargo over
>>>>>> distances of up to 300km at nearly 300kph in the 12-seater Viceroys
>>>>>> and up to 800km at nearly 540kph in the 100-seater Monarchs using
>>>>>> existing battery technology.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll believe it when and if it happens, until then I'm a skeptic.
>>>>>
>>>> Europe/USA is buying them now.
>>>> The problem presently is range, however they can now fly 800 miles
>>>> which is needed by sea, Syd/Mel harbour to harbour.
>>>> More positives are the craft can be from City centre to City centre,
>>>> quiet and no pollution.
>>>> For international flights jet hybrids are being developed.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.afar.com/magazine/electric-planes-are-coming-sooner-than-you-think>
>>>> https://tinyurl.com/2faxv6xg
>>>> The past year has propelled the aviation industry ever closer toward a
>>>> goal of viable commercial electric aircraft. United Airlines announced
>>>> in July that it’s buying 100 19-seater, zero-emission electric planes
>>>> from Swedish startup Heart Aerospace; they are set to take flight for
>>>> short hops in the United States in 2026.
>>>> Over in Europe, EasyJet’s partnership with U.S. startup Wright
>>>> Electric has led to development plans for the Wright 1, an
>>>> all-electric, 186-seat commercial passenger jet with an 800-mile range
>>>> that’s targeted to enter service around 2030. Up sooner still, Wright
>>>> Electric additionally announced in November plans for an electric
>>>> 100-seater, the Wright Spirit, due out in 2026.
>>>
>>> There is one aspect that seems to be ignored, turn around time between
>>> flights, jet aircraft can be turned around quickly but how long to
>>> recharge an electric aircraft's batteries?

>>> One way would be to have exchangeable battery packs that would need to
>>> swapped them between flights.

>> And that aint gunna work with the plane bouncing around on the water.

> It flies 10 metres ABOVE the water,

That bit was about where it is when the battery is being replaced.

> The report I read was that battery swapping was not preferred by FAA
> worried about damage on dock but were open about it, it may be the
> manufacturers have come up with a acceptable method to do this?

They don't even have any way of sea skimming in ocean waves.

Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<op.1s20cwfcbyq249@pvr2.lan>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1286&group=aus.aviation#1286

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger
freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:39:58 +1000
Lines: 179
Message-ID: <op.1s20cwfcbyq249@pvr2.lan>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com>
<op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com>
<jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net>
<gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com>
<jp9oaeF22v7U1@mid.individual.net>
<tbdvih1ctoj2rsicu8msgjv0lkboh1ilq8@4ax.com>
<jpa9pjF4m5lU1@mid.individual.net>
<batvih99euuimaen79jn3m10po7r0gav59@4ax.com> <op.1s2g9vnhbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<48m1jhlfdm24dm5pslcem7p18uv6qcuht0@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable
X-Trace: individual.net /NHQyiVqGJYqiD2iGdvsSAV2zGXHwBTy533g1vEX4KdWrrXQw=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:fezfNL7HBjKL4iwJqskwFaAxvzA=
User-Agent: Opera Mail/1.0 (Win32)
 by: Rod Speed - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 02:39 UTC

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 08:45:48 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 05:47:45 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 16:47:29 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 16:12:03 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 25/9/2022 12:15 pm, Petzl wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 11:13:50 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 10:36 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:56:21 +1000, Daryl
>>>>>>> <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 9:22 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 06:15:56 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>>>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7tKXMYzwW4>
>>>>>>>>>>> TV news about this
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just more mindless sales bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> $20 and 20 minutes from Sydney Harbour to Newcastle
>>>>>>>>> The planes are limited from harbour to harbour
>>>>>>>>> A hour from Sydney/Botany to Melbourne harbour.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pure fantasy since they supposed only fly over water, the route
>>>>>>>> Syd
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> Melb over water is considerably longer than over land and that
>>>>>>>> takes
>>>>>>>> about an hour.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They fly at 320 km/h, 10 metres above water
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Think it may have possibilities.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe ok for short haul flights or tourist transport, can't see it
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> of any use on major commuter routes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some of the Planes the NZ fleet is buying seats a 100 passengers
>>>>>>> (all
>>>>>>> economy Qantas seat 180) at 320km/h should be in Melbourne/St Kilda
>>>>>>> under 2.5 hours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Very unlikely, the distance over water would be more than 1200km, by
>>>>>> road its 889km plus the chances of the Govt allowing anyone to "fly"
>>>>>> 10mts above Port Phillip Bay at 320kph is zero simply because there
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> too many ships and boats on the bay.
>>>>>> I'd estimate the trip would take between 4 and 5hrs allowing for
>>>>>> having
>>>>>> to go a lot slower at either end plus the extra distance over water.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Big ships are now going to Botany.
>>>>> It was their 12 seater that does 320kp/h
>>>>> Their 100 seater Monarchs 800km range at nearly 540kph, yes by sea
>>>>> Syd/Mel is 1200 km so they just need higher range than the kiwi ones.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cruise ships are going to Darling Harbour early morning leave late..
>>>>> Not problematic with scheduling
>>>>>
>>>>> Be in St Kilda/Circular Quay in less than 1.5 hrs, yes they can fly
>>>>> under Sydney Harbour bridge, clearance over 49 metres.
>>>>>
>>>>> Did some more poking.
>>>>>
>>>>> "up to 800km at nearly 540kph in the 100-seater Monarchs using
>>>>> existing battery technology."
>>>>> <https://www.oceanflyer.co.nz/#:~:text=Achieving%20aircraft%20speeds%20at%20a,Monarchs%20using%20existing%20battery%20technology.>
>>>>> https://tinyurl.com/2pnn2teq
>>>>> SPEED & EFFICIENCY
>>>>> Achieving aircraft speeds at a fraction of the operating cost, the
>>>>> Ocean Flyer seagliders will transport passengers and cargo over
>>>>> distances of up to 300km at nearly 300kph in the 12-seater Viceroys
>>>>> and up to 800km at nearly 540kph in the 100-seater Monarchs using
>>>>> existing battery technology.
>>>>
>>>> I'll believe it when and if it happens, until then I'm a skeptic.
>>
>>> Europe/USA is buying them now.
>>
>> BULLSHIT
>>
>>> The problem presently is range, however they can now fly 800 miles
>>
>> BULLSHIT.
>>
>>> which is needed by sea, Syd/Mel harbour to harbour.
>>
>> Pity about the ocean waves.
>>
>>> More positives are the craft can be from City centre to City centre,
>>> quiet and no pollution.
>>
>> Pity about all the boats and ships and ferrys.
>>
>>> For international flights jet hybrids are being developed.
>>
>> Only between physically adjacent countrys.
>>
>>> <https://www.afar.com/magazine/electric-planes-are-coming-sooner-than-you-think>
>>> https://tinyurl.com/2faxv6xg
>>
>> Just more mindless journo bullshit.
>>
>>> The past year has propelled the aviation industry ever closer toward a
>>> goal of viable commercial electric aircraft. United Airlines announced
>>> in July that it’s buying 100 19-seater, zero-emission electric planes
>>> from Swedish startup Heart Aerospace; they are set to take flight for
>>> short hops in the United States in 2026.
>>
>> Those arent sea skimmers, stupid.
>>
>>> Over in Europe, EasyJet’s partnership with U.S. startup Wright
>>> Electric has led to development plans for the Wright 1, an
>>> all-electric, 186-seat commercial passenger jet with an 800-mile range
>>> that’s targeted to enter service around 2030. Up sooner still, Wright
>>> Electric additionally announced in November plans for an electric
>>> 100-seater, the Wright Spirit, due out in 2026.
>>
>> Those arent sea skimmers, stupid.

> I knew that, they are also a different manufacturer and don't make sea
> planes.

> The planes NZ have bought

NZ has not bought anything.

> do not skim the water (only for take off),

WRONG.

> they fly ("hover") ten metres above the water which makes them more
> efficient.

But that doesnt work with ocean waves.

Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<op.1s20jebzbyq249@pvr2.lan>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1287&group=aus.aviation#1287

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger
freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:43:52 +1000
Lines: 144
Message-ID: <op.1s20jebzbyq249@pvr2.lan>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com>
<op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com>
<jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net>
<gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com>
<jp9oaeF22v7U1@mid.individual.net>
<tbdvih1ctoj2rsicu8msgjv0lkboh1ilq8@4ax.com> <op.1s2gxym0byq249@pvr2.lan>
<3mm1jhdcftgv0utqfmrhfdhbhg25beemt6@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable
X-Trace: individual.net 6Zf5NHggrf/wOby3V2EPrwKMrZDg7QTCOGJOONx4apTbUDtUw=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:OB9J7JFGs/2fC+nwRUCLLDxtmK0=
User-Agent: Opera Mail/1.0 (Win32)
 by: Rod Speed - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 02:43 UTC

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 08:53:06 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 05:40:36 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 12:15:35 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 11:13:50 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 25/9/2022 10:36 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:56:21 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 9:22 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 06:15:56 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7tKXMYzwW4>
>>>>>>>>> TV news about this
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just more mindless sales bullshit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> $20 and 20 minutes from Sydney Harbour to Newcastle
>>>>>>> The planes are limited from harbour to harbour
>>>>>>> A hour from Sydney/Botany to Melbourne harbour.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pure fantasy since they supposed only fly over water, the route Syd
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> Melb over water is considerably longer than over land and that takes
>>>>>> about an hour.
>>>>>>
>>>>> They fly at 320 km/h, 10 metres above water
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Think it may have possibilities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe ok for short haul flights or tourist transport, can't see it
>>>>>> being
>>>>>> of any use on major commuter routes.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Some of the Planes the NZ fleet is buying seats a 100 passengers (all
>>>>> economy Qantas seat 180) at 320km/h should be in Melbourne/St Kilda
>>>>> under 2.5 hours.
>>>>
>>>> Very unlikely, the distance over water would be more than 1200km, by
>>>> road its 889km plus the chances of the Govt allowing anyone to "fly"
>>>> 10mts above Port Phillip Bay at 320kph is zero simply because there
>>>> are
>>>> too many ships and boats on the bay.
>>>> I'd estimate the trip would take between 4 and 5hrs allowing for
>>>> having
>>>> to go a lot slower at either end plus the extra distance over water..
>>
>>> Big ships are now going to Botany.
>>
>> Pity about Newcastle and Melburg.
>>
>> Pity about the boats, ferrys etc.
>>
>>> It was their 12 seater that does 320kp/h
>>
>> There is no plane that does anything like that, its fantasy.
>>
>>> Their 100 seater Monarchs 800km range at nearly 540kph,
>>
>> There is no plane that does anything like that, its fantasy.
>>
>>> yes by sea
>>> Syd/Mel is 1200 km so they just need higher range than the kiwi ones..
>>
>> Pity about the ocean waves.
>>
>>> Cruise ships are going to Darling Harbour early morning leave late.
>>> Not problematic with scheduling
>>
>> Pity about the other end.
>>
>>> Be in St Kilda/Circular Quay in less than 1.5 hrs,
>>
>> Nof a chance.
>>
>>> yes they can fly
>>> under Sydney Harbour bridge, clearance over 49 metres.
>>
>> Pity about the ocean waves.
>>
> read on McDuff. That does not seem a issue in NZ.

Corse it is if they are going to fly from Ackland to Wellington.

> https://www.oceanflyer.co.nz
> TECHNOLOGY
> Seagliders make use of the ‘wing-in-ground-effect (WIG)’ and have been
> built to leverage existing port infrastructure. The seagliders begin
> their journey with the hull in the water, rising onto foils as the
> speed increases before eventually generating lift so that the
> seaglider begins to fly in-ground-effect at about 10m above the water.

That last doesn't work with OCEAN WAVES.

> The aerodynamic advantage of the “ground effect” includes significant
> operational efficiencies, increased payload capability, greater range
> and speed.

That doesn't work with OCEAN WAVES.

> Achieving aircraft speeds at a fraction of the operating cost, the
> Ocean Flyer seagliders will transport passengers and cargo over
> distances of up to 300km at nearly 300kph in the 12-seater Viceroys
> and up to 800km at nearly 540kph in the 100-seater Monarchs using
> existing battery technology.

Easy to claim, none of those have actually been built. NOT ONE.

> The efficiency of seagliders means the operational costs are greatly
> reduced compared to existing modes of transportation.

That doesn't work with OCEAN WAVES.

> These savings
> will be passed on to the customer meaning travel fares will be up to
> 70% cheaper, without sacrificing time, comfort or experience.

More mindless bullshit.

Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<op.1s20mcaxbyq249@pvr2.lan>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1288&group=aus.aviation#1288

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger
freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:45:38 +1000
Lines: 147
Message-ID: <op.1s20mcaxbyq249@pvr2.lan>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com>
<op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com>
<jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net>
<gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com>
<jp9oaeF22v7U1@mid.individual.net>
<tbdvih1ctoj2rsicu8msgjv0lkboh1ilq8@4ax.com> <op.1s2gxym0byq249@pvr2.lan>
<3mm1jhdcftgv0utqfmrhfdhbhg25beemt6@4ax.com>
<jpc8d5Fdpu7U3@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable
X-Trace: individual.net mTyRdVMrlBZNC0ZsmGbmgw+iQL4v5H8/ZwFvW2zMncr3U2z0w=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:gWkVeyJeX8aJuDulx3oPgsv0QkM=
User-Agent: Opera Mail/1.0 (Win32)
 by: Rod Speed - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 02:45 UTC

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 10:00:37 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote:

> On 26/9/2022 8:53 am, Petzl wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 05:40:36 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 12:15:35 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 11:13:50 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 25/9/2022 10:36 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:56:21 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 9:22 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 06:15:56 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7tKXMYzwW4>
>>>>>>>>>> TV news about this
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just more mindless sales bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> $20 and 20 minutes from Sydney Harbour to Newcastle
>>>>>>>> The planes are limited from harbour to harbour
>>>>>>>> A hour from Sydney/Botany to Melbourne harbour.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pure fantasy since they supposed only fly over water, the route
>>>>>>> Syd to
>>>>>>> Melb over water is considerably longer than over land and that
>>>>>>> takes
>>>>>>> about an hour.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> They fly at 320 km/h, 10 metres above water
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Think it may have possibilities.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe ok for short haul flights or tourist transport, can't see it
>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>> of any use on major commuter routes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some of the Planes the NZ fleet is buying seats a 100 passengers
>>>>>> (all
>>>>>> economy Qantas seat 180) at 320km/h should be in Melbourne/St Kilda
>>>>>> under 2.5 hours.
>>>>>
>>>>> Very unlikely, the distance over water would be more than 1200km, by
>>>>> road its 889km plus the chances of the Govt allowing anyone to "fly"
>>>>> 10mts above Port Phillip Bay at 320kph is zero simply because there
>>>>> are
>>>>> too many ships and boats on the bay.
>>>>> I'd estimate the trip would take between 4 and 5hrs allowing for
>>>>> having
>>>>> to go a lot slower at either end plus the extra distance over water.
>>>
>>>> Big ships are now going to Botany.
>>>
>>> Pity about Newcastle and Melburg.
>>>
>>> Pity about the boats, ferrys etc.
>>>
>>>> It was their 12 seater that does 320kp/h
>>>
>>> There is no plane that does anything like that, its fantasy.
>>>
>>>> Their 100 seater Monarchs 800km range at nearly 540kph,
>>>
>>> There is no plane that does anything like that, its fantasy.
>>>
>>>> yes by sea
>>>> Syd/Mel is 1200 km so they just need higher range than the kiwi ones.
>>>
>>> Pity about the ocean waves.
>>>
>>>> Cruise ships are going to Darling Harbour early morning leave late.
>>>> Not problematic with scheduling
>>>
>>> Pity about the other end.
>>>
>>>> Be in St Kilda/Circular Quay in less than 1.5 hrs,
>>>
>>> Nof a chance.
>>>
>>>> yes they can fly
>>>> under Sydney Harbour bridge, clearance over 49 metres.
>>>
>>> Pity about the ocean waves.
>>>
>> read on McDuff. That does not seem a issue in NZ.
>> https://www.oceanflyer.co.nz
>> TECHNOLOGY
>> Seagliders make use of the ‘wing-in-ground-effect (WIG)’ and have been
>> built to leverage existing port infrastructure. The seagliders begin
>> their journey with the hull in the water, rising onto foils as the
>> speed increases before eventually generating lift so that the
>> seaglider begins to fly in-ground-effect at about 10m above the water..
>> The aerodynamic advantage of the “ground effect” includes significant
>> operational efficiencies, increased payload capability, greater range
>> and speed.
>> Achieving aircraft speeds at a fraction of the operating cost, the
>> Ocean Flyer seagliders will transport passengers and cargo over
>> distances of up to 300km at nearly 300kph in the 12-seater Viceroys
>> and up to 800km at nearly 540kph in the 100-seater Monarchs using
>> existing battery technology.
>> The efficiency of seagliders means the operational costs are greatly
>> reduced compared to existing modes of transportation. These savings
>> will be passed on to the customer meaning travel fares will be up to
>> 70% cheaper, without sacrificing time, comfort or experience.
>
> I can imagine some scenarios where such an aircraft would work well but
> to suggest that could "fly" Syd to Melb" is just out of the question.
> To be safe from waves and large ships it would need to fly at least
> 100mtrs high then it would be out of ground effect so no advantage over
> conventional aircraft.

And a massive problem with boats and ships at each end of the flight.

Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<op.1s20qnqwbyq249@pvr2.lan>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1289&group=aus.aviation#1289

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger
freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:48:13 +1000
Lines: 169
Message-ID: <op.1s20qnqwbyq249@pvr2.lan>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com>
<op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com>
<jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net>
<gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com>
<jp9oaeF22v7U1@mid.individual.net>
<tbdvih1ctoj2rsicu8msgjv0lkboh1ilq8@4ax.com> <op.1s2gxym0byq249@pvr2.lan>
<3mm1jhdcftgv0utqfmrhfdhbhg25beemt6@4ax.com>
<jpc8d5Fdpu7U3@mid.individual.net>
<8ir1jhthnifnkgpmqrjova5pl2mqfi1vgv@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable
X-Trace: individual.net GyHr50+AnhxQrqGjAOkINg0EmHvtGbXpIMyvWEOt/pVv4wPZI=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:q82xJFQJJPJoaMPeFHhe7f3ocDQ=
User-Agent: Opera Mail/1.0 (Win32)
 by: Rod Speed - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 02:48 UTC

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 10:21:01 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 10:00:37 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>> On 26/9/2022 8:53 am, Petzl wrote:
>>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 05:40:36 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 12:15:35 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 11:13:50 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 10:36 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:56:21 +1000, Daryl
>>>>>>> <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 9:22 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 06:15:56 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>>>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7tKXMYzwW4>
>>>>>>>>>>> TV news about this
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just more mindless sales bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> $20 and 20 minutes from Sydney Harbour to Newcastle
>>>>>>>>> The planes are limited from harbour to harbour
>>>>>>>>> A hour from Sydney/Botany to Melbourne harbour.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pure fantasy since they supposed only fly over water, the route
>>>>>>>> Syd to
>>>>>>>> Melb over water is considerably longer than over land and that
>>>>>>>> takes
>>>>>>>> about an hour.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They fly at 320 km/h, 10 metres above water
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Think it may have possibilities.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe ok for short haul flights or tourist transport, can't see it
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> of any use on major commuter routes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some of the Planes the NZ fleet is buying seats a 100 passengers
>>>>>>> (all
>>>>>>> economy Qantas seat 180) at 320km/h should be in Melbourne/St Kilda
>>>>>>> under 2.5 hours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Very unlikely, the distance over water would be more than 1200km, by
>>>>>> road its 889km plus the chances of the Govt allowing anyone to "fly"
>>>>>> 10mts above Port Phillip Bay at 320kph is zero simply because there
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> too many ships and boats on the bay.
>>>>>> I'd estimate the trip would take between 4 and 5hrs allowing for
>>>>>> having
>>>>>> to go a lot slower at either end plus the extra distance over water.
>>>>
>>>>> Big ships are now going to Botany.
>>>>
>>>> Pity about Newcastle and Melburg.
>>>>
>>>> Pity about the boats, ferrys etc.
>>>>
>>>>> It was their 12 seater that does 320kp/h
>>>>
>>>> There is no plane that does anything like that, its fantasy.
>>>>
>>>>> Their 100 seater Monarchs 800km range at nearly 540kph,
>>>>
>>>> There is no plane that does anything like that, its fantasy.
>>>>
>>>>> yes by sea
>>>>> Syd/Mel is 1200 km so they just need higher range than the kiwi ones.
>>>>
>>>> Pity about the ocean waves.
>>>>
>>>>> Cruise ships are going to Darling Harbour early morning leave late..
>>>>> Not problematic with scheduling
>>>>
>>>> Pity about the other end.
>>>>
>>>>> Be in St Kilda/Circular Quay in less than 1.5 hrs,
>>>>
>>>> Nof a chance.
>>>>
>>>>> yes they can fly
>>>>> under Sydney Harbour bridge, clearance over 49 metres.
>>>>
>>>> Pity about the ocean waves.
>>>>
>>> read on McDuff. That does not seem a issue in NZ.
>>>
>>> https://www.oceanflyer.co.nz
>>> TECHNOLOGY
>>> Seagliders make use of the ‘wing-in-ground-effect (WIG)’ and have been
>>> built to leverage existing port infrastructure. The seagliders begin
>>> their journey with the hull in the water, rising onto foils as the
>>> speed increases before eventually generating lift so that the
>>> seaglider begins to fly in-ground-effect at about 10m above the water.
>>>
>>> The aerodynamic advantage of the “ground effect” includes significant
>>> operational efficiencies, increased payload capability, greater range
>>> and speed.
>>>
>>> Achieving aircraft speeds at a fraction of the operating cost, the
>>> Ocean Flyer seagliders will transport passengers and cargo over
>>> distances of up to 300km at nearly 300kph in the 12-seater Viceroys
>>> and up to 800km at nearly 540kph in the 100-seater Monarchs using
>>> existing battery technology.
>>>
>>> The efficiency of seagliders means the operational costs are greatly
>>> reduced compared to existing modes of transportation. These savings
>>> will be passed on to the customer meaning travel fares will be up to
>>> 70% cheaper, without sacrificing time, comfort or experience.
>>
>> I can imagine some scenarios where such an aircraft would work well but
>> to suggest that could "fly" Syd to Melb" is just out of the question.
>> To be safe from waves and large ships it would need to fly at least
>> 100mtrs high then it would be out of ground effect so no advantage over
>> conventional aircraft.
>>
> Don't know, your field. but one of those backing this is New Zealand
> Ex Air Force chief John Hamilton is among the earliest customers.

Nope, he hasn't even bought a ticket from Auckland to Wellington.

> Auckland and Christchurch it doesn't seem a problem

Corse it is with ocean waves.

> they have more
> shipping than Sydney Harbour, a lot of Yachts as well

But aren't going to allow those port to be used like that, you watch.

Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<op.1s20stt7byq249@pvr2.lan>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1290&group=aus.aviation#1290

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger
freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:49:31 +1000
Lines: 78
Message-ID: <op.1s20stt7byq249@pvr2.lan>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com>
<op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com>
<jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net>
<gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com> <op.1s2gjmpebyq249@pvr2.lan>
<jpc823Fdpu7U2@mid.individual.net>
<h6s1jhpeprehsndvu4idp8uhdjo9ag876k@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net C6qzaerix90XGJZQTZuAQwYtoGf1RQlXAQ9oHBmvVECpX4THg=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:M8gGbc0lC7guFJhU6Z62CRBop0s=
User-Agent: Opera Mail/1.0 (Win32)
 by: Rod Speed - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 02:49 UTC

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 10:25:46 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 09:54:43 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>> On 26/9/2022 5:32 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 10:36:09 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:56:21 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 25/9/2022 9:22 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 06:15:56 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7tKXMYzwW4>
>>>>>>>> TV news about this
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just more mindless sales bullshit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> $20 and 20 minutes from Sydney Harbour to Newcastle
>>>>>> The planes are limited from harbour to harbour
>>>>>> A hour from Sydney/Botany to Melbourne harbour.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pure fantasy since they supposed only fly over water, the route Syd
>>>>> to
>>>>> Melb over water is considerably longer than over land and that takes
>>>>> about an hour.
>>>
>>>> They fly at 320 km/h, 10 metres above water
>>>
>>> Not when there are decent waves they dont.
>>>
>>>>>> Think it may have possibilities.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe ok for short haul flights or tourist transport, can't see it
>>>>> being
>>>>> of any use on major commuter routes.
>>>
>>>> Some of the Planes the NZ fleet is buying seats a 100 passengers
>>>
>>> Bullshit. And NZ isnt buying any.
>>>
>>>> (all economy Qantas seat 180)
>>>
>>> Wrong with the Dash 8s and SAAB 340Bs that QantasLink and Rex use.
>>>
>>>> at 320km/h should be in Melbourne/St Kilda under 2.5 hours.
>>>
>>> No chance and those steaming turds don't have the range for that.
>>>
>>>>>> Guessing the price but are really cheap (25% the cost) compared to
>>>>>> passenger jets, 4 times quicker than road or 8 times than a train.
>>>>>
>>>>> See above, not that fast at all if they have to fly over water.
>>>>>
>>>> Thought so at first but worked out their speed is around 320 km/h?
>>>> Altitude 10 metres above water.
>>>
>>> Not even possible with ocean waves.
>>
>> Not going to be safe with some waves well in excess of 10mtrs when you
>> get near Bass Strait.
>
> Bad weather a canceled flight.
> <https://www.ourcoast.org.au/inundation_report/ch03s02s04.php#:~:text=The%20measured%20significant%20wave%20height,m%20during%20winter%20and%20spring.>
> https://tinyurl.com/2zw27uf6
> How big can the waves get in the Bass Strait?
>
> The measured significant wave height reaches 6.4 m, with at least 50%
> of the waves being between 1 and 2 m. The average significant wave
> height over all seasons at this location is 1.7 m. Seasonally, the
> average wave height drops to 1.6 m in summer and autumn and returns to
> 1.7 m during winter and spring.

What matters is the biggest ones, not the average waves.

Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<op.1s200yq2byq249@pvr2.lan>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1291&group=aus.aviation#1291

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger
freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:54:24 +1000
Lines: 233
Message-ID: <op.1s200yq2byq249@pvr2.lan>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com>
<op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com>
<jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net>
<gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com>
<jp9oaeF22v7U1@mid.individual.net>
<tbdvih1ctoj2rsicu8msgjv0lkboh1ilq8@4ax.com> <op.1s2gxym0byq249@pvr2.lan>
<3mm1jhdcftgv0utqfmrhfdhbhg25beemt6@4ax.com>
<jpc8d5Fdpu7U3@mid.individual.net>
<8ir1jhthnifnkgpmqrjova5pl2mqfi1vgv@4ax.com>
<jpcdmbFepjkU1@mid.individual.net>
<3l12jh5u7hhcmemr809p2um3rotrdhqvdd@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable
X-Trace: individual.net 6yshljUPRD2je8zVp17+lw/ehtaJqylU8H/vpFHIkzGMA5ZhU=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:xpaZs01HbRqKbIn3XSFDUDhYjqY=
User-Agent: Opera Mail/1.0 (Win32)
 by: Rod Speed - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 02:54 UTC

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:05:46 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 11:30:51 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>> On 26/9/2022 10:21 am, Petzl wrote:
>>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 10:00:37 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 26/9/2022 8:53 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 05:40:36 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 12:15:35 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 11:13:50 +1000, Daryl
>>>>>>> <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 10:36 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:56:21 +1000, Daryl
>>>>>>>>> <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 9:22 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 06:15:56 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>>>>>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7tKXMYzwW4>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> TV news about this
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Just more mindless sales bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> $20 and 20 minutes from Sydney Harbour to Newcastle
>>>>>>>>>>> The planes are limited from harbour to harbour
>>>>>>>>>>> A hour from Sydney/Botany to Melbourne harbour.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Pure fantasy since they supposed only fly over water, the route
>>>>>>>>>> Syd to
>>>>>>>>>> Melb over water is considerably longer than over land and that
>>>>>>>>>> takes
>>>>>>>>>> about an hour.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They fly at 320 km/h, 10 metres above water
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Think it may have possibilities.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe ok for short haul flights or tourist transport, can't see
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>> of any use on major commuter routes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Some of the Planes the NZ fleet is buying seats a 100 passengers
>>>>>>>>> (all
>>>>>>>>> economy Qantas seat 180) at 320km/h should be in Melbourne/St
>>>>>>>>> Kilda
>>>>>>>>> under 2.5 hours.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Very unlikely, the distance over water would be more than 1200km,
>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>> road its 889km plus the chances of the Govt allowing anyone to
>>>>>>>> "fly"
>>>>>>>> 10mts above Port Phillip Bay at 320kph is zero simply because
>>>>>>>> there are
>>>>>>>> too many ships and boats on the bay.
>>>>>>>> I'd estimate the trip would take between 4 and 5hrs allowing for
>>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>>> to go a lot slower at either end plus the extra distance over
>>>>>>>> water.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Big ships are now going to Botany.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pity about Newcastle and Melburg.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pity about the boats, ferrys etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It was their 12 seater that does 320kp/h
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no plane that does anything like that, its fantasy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Their 100 seater Monarchs 800km range at nearly 540kph,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no plane that does anything like that, its fantasy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> yes by sea
>>>>>>> Syd/Mel is 1200 km so they just need higher range than the kiwi
>>>>>>> ones.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pity about the ocean waves.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cruise ships are going to Darling Harbour early morning leave late.
>>>>>>> Not problematic with scheduling
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pity about the other end.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Be in St Kilda/Circular Quay in less than 1.5 hrs,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nof a chance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> yes they can fly
>>>>>>> under Sydney Harbour bridge, clearance over 49 metres.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pity about the ocean waves.
>>>>>>
>>>>> read on McDuff. That does not seem a issue in NZ.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.oceanflyer.co.nz
>>>>> TECHNOLOGY
>>>>> Seagliders make use of the ‘wing-in-ground-effect (WIG)’ and have
>>>>> been
>>>>> built to leverage existing port infrastructure. The seagliders begin
>>>>> their journey with the hull in the water, rising onto foils as the
>>>>> speed increases before eventually generating lift so that the
>>>>> seaglider begins to fly in-ground-effect at about 10m above the
>>>>> water.
>>>>>
>>>>> The aerodynamic advantage of the “ground effect” includes significant
>>>>> operational efficiencies, increased payload capability, greater range
>>>>> and speed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Achieving aircraft speeds at a fraction of the operating cost, the
>>>>> Ocean Flyer seagliders will transport passengers and cargo over
>>>>> distances of up to 300km at nearly 300kph in the 12-seater Viceroys
>>>>> and up to 800km at nearly 540kph in the 100-seater Monarchs using
>>>>> existing battery technology.
>>>>>
>>>>> The efficiency of seagliders means the operational costs are greatly
>>>>> reduced compared to existing modes of transportation. These savings
>>>>> will be passed on to the customer meaning travel fares will be up to
>>>>> 70% cheaper, without sacrificing time, comfort or experience.
>>>>
>>>> I can imagine some scenarios where such an aircraft would work well
>>>> but
>>>> to suggest that could "fly" Syd to Melb" is just out of the question.
>>>> To be safe from waves and large ships it would need to fly at least
>>>> 100mtrs high then it would be out of ground effect so no advantage
>>>> over
>>>> conventional aircraft.
>>>>
>>> Don't know, your field. but one of those backing this is New Zealand
>>> Ex Air Force chief John Hamilton is among the earliest customers.
>>
>> Like I said such an aircraft could work well in a certain circumstances,
>> Syd/Melb just isn't one of those circumstances.
>>
>>> Auckland and Christchurch it doesn't seem a problem they have more
>>> shipping than Sydney Harbour, a lot of Yachts as well
>>
>> Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
>>
> What could go wrong
> https://youtu.be/bzAUX9DkrVY
> Turns out the planes can climb to 40 metres no trouble.

But then there is no point in sea skimming and you have lost the
massive advantage of flying at high altitude, above the weather.

> Yes there are 40 metre high waves!
> They have also their eyes on Sydney and pacific Islands.
> <https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/green-travel/300591084/first-footage-of-new-electric-seagliders-coming-to-new-zealand>
> https://tinyurl.com/2kjl64fp


Click here to read the complete article
Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<5c52jhprujkvs2snghr1csd9sn1ck6nfuc@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1292&group=aus.aviation#1292

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: pet...@gmail.com (Petzl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 13:00:35 +1000
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <5c52jhprujkvs2snghr1csd9sn1ck6nfuc@4ax.com>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com> <op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com> <jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net> <gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com> <jp9oaeF22v7U1@mid.individual.net> <tbdvih1ctoj2rsicu8msgjv0lkboh1ilq8@4ax.com> <op.1s2gxym0byq249@pvr2.lan> <3mm1jhdcftgv0utqfmrhfdhbhg25beemt6@4ax.com> <op.1s20jebzbyq249@pvr2.lan>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net SJ+gaMUsll5P/YAHfaXzRwhDSfX6HAFlXNY6AdXSfCJ/l3Ic+z
Cancel-Lock: sha1:cxK2EaiifX8Mdxk+W+XF7Rrbz2w=
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
 by: Petzl - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 03:00 UTC

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:43:52 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

> 800km at nearly 540kph in the 100-seater Monarchs using
>> existing battery technology.
>
>Easy to claim, none of those have actually been built. NOT ONE.

What you call this San Francisco USA video
https://youtu.be/gS-aQ1kCfV8
--
Petzl
Labor "Greens" are Termites.
Political and social termites.
I loathe them with a passion.
They typify what is wrong with Australia and the West.

Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<pi52jh19kej1d2ebstbgesksfm4i432i96@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1293&group=aus.aviation#1293

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: pet...@gmail.com (Petzl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 13:03:39 +1000
Lines: 95
Message-ID: <pi52jh19kej1d2ebstbgesksfm4i432i96@4ax.com>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com> <op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com> <jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net> <gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com> <op.1s2gjmpebyq249@pvr2.lan> <jpc823Fdpu7U2@mid.individual.net> <h6s1jhpeprehsndvu4idp8uhdjo9ag876k@4ax.com> <op.1s20stt7byq249@pvr2.lan>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net U91+TMj2yJFbIT7zjn9TtAzvYjQ00IdXHy1z912Rk1dGgo43SC
Cancel-Lock: sha1:mbm8EKoi+rlnqmNu3mm1kaBjskY=
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
 by: Petzl - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 03:03 UTC

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:49:31 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 10:25:46 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 09:54:43 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 26/9/2022 5:32 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 10:36:09 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:56:21 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 9:22 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 06:15:56 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7tKXMYzwW4>
>>>>>>>>> TV news about this
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just more mindless sales bullshit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> $20 and 20 minutes from Sydney Harbour to Newcastle
>>>>>>> The planes are limited from harbour to harbour
>>>>>>> A hour from Sydney/Botany to Melbourne harbour.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pure fantasy since they supposed only fly over water, the route Syd
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> Melb over water is considerably longer than over land and that takes
>>>>>> about an hour.
>>>>
>>>>> They fly at 320 km/h, 10 metres above water
>>>>
>>>> Not when there are decent waves they dont.
>>>>
>>>>>>> Think it may have possibilities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe ok for short haul flights or tourist transport, can't see it
>>>>>> being
>>>>>> of any use on major commuter routes.
>>>>
>>>>> Some of the Planes the NZ fleet is buying seats a 100 passengers
>>>>
>>>> Bullshit. And NZ isnt buying any.
>>>>
>>>>> (all economy Qantas seat 180)
>>>>
>>>> Wrong with the Dash 8s and SAAB 340Bs that QantasLink and Rex use.
>>>>
>>>>> at 320km/h should be in Melbourne/St Kilda under 2.5 hours.
>>>>
>>>> No chance and those steaming turds don't have the range for that.
>>>>
>>>>>>> Guessing the price but are really cheap (25% the cost) compared to
>>>>>>> passenger jets, 4 times quicker than road or 8 times than a train.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See above, not that fast at all if they have to fly over water.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Thought so at first but worked out their speed is around 320 km/h?
>>>>> Altitude 10 metres above water.
>>>>
>>>> Not even possible with ocean waves.
>>>
>>> Not going to be safe with some waves well in excess of 10mtrs when you
>>> get near Bass Strait.
>>
>> Bad weather a canceled flight.
>> <https://www.ourcoast.org.au/inundation_report/ch03s02s04.php#:~:text=The%20measured%20significant%20wave%20height,m%20during%20winter%20and%20spring.>
>> https://tinyurl.com/2zw27uf6
>> How big can the waves get in the Bass Strait?
>>
>> The measured significant wave height reaches 6.4 m, with at least 50%
>> of the waves being between 1 and 2 m. The average significant wave
>> height over all seasons at this location is 1.7 m. Seasonally, the
>> average wave height drops to 1.6 m in summer and autumn and returns to
>> 1.7 m during winter and spring.
>
>What matters is the biggest ones, not the average waves.

The can easily fly 40 metres high if they have to.
--
Petzl
Every time I speak of the haters and losers
I do so with great love and affection.
They cannot help the fact that they were born fucked up!

The loudest whiners on Trump's withdrawal
from Paris Climate Change
are those who profit the most (like Al Gore).

Donald Trump
https://youtu.be/kGg4Oywfbyw

Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<op.1s224neabyq249@pvr2.lan>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1294&group=aus.aviation#1294

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger
freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 13:39:49 +1000
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <op.1s224neabyq249@pvr2.lan>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com>
<op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com>
<jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net>
<gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com>
<jp9oaeF22v7U1@mid.individual.net>
<tbdvih1ctoj2rsicu8msgjv0lkboh1ilq8@4ax.com> <op.1s2gxym0byq249@pvr2.lan>
<3mm1jhdcftgv0utqfmrhfdhbhg25beemt6@4ax.com> <op.1s20jebzbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<5c52jhprujkvs2snghr1csd9sn1ck6nfuc@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net 4a+ZHHzakiDM7ripv7wuJQUoq/vUMl9gWeiCYNg8ifIFFGm1E=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:jBf4YCgo1C0bYdqCguGw0jVMqIM=
User-Agent: Opera Mail/1.0 (Win32)
 by: Rod Speed - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 03:39 UTC

Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>> 800km at nearly 540kph in the 100-seater Monarchs using
>>> existing battery technology.

>> Easy to claim, none of those have actually been built. NOT ONE.

> What you call this San Francisco USA video
> https://youtu.be/gS-aQ1kCfV8

That doesn't carry ANY pax, let alone 100 and doesn't have
anything even remotely like that range or speed either.

Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<op.1s226ppcbyq249@pvr2.lan>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1295&group=aus.aviation#1295

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!news.neodome.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger
freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 13:41:03 +1000
Lines: 90
Message-ID: <op.1s226ppcbyq249@pvr2.lan>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com>
<op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com>
<jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net>
<gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com> <op.1s2gjmpebyq249@pvr2.lan>
<jpc823Fdpu7U2@mid.individual.net>
<h6s1jhpeprehsndvu4idp8uhdjo9ag876k@4ax.com> <op.1s20stt7byq249@pvr2.lan>
<pi52jh19kej1d2ebstbgesksfm4i432i96@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net eR/CX1Tz/x3GL9rb22Vkkg9aOOUQyjZ9Q1nKDjz3QLteVpEIQ=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:+qwdKMGI6te3w2Vpuyyrpd8cqtI=
User-Agent: Opera Mail/1.0 (Win32)
 by: Rod Speed - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 03:41 UTC

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 13:03:39 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:49:31 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 10:25:46 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 09:54:43 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 26/9/2022 5:32 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 10:36:09 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:56:21 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 9:22 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 06:15:56 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7tKXMYzwW4>
>>>>>>>>>> TV news about this
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just more mindless sales bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> $20 and 20 minutes from Sydney Harbour to Newcastle
>>>>>>>> The planes are limited from harbour to harbour
>>>>>>>> A hour from Sydney/Botany to Melbourne harbour.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pure fantasy since they supposed only fly over water, the route Syd
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> Melb over water is considerably longer than over land and that
>>>>>>> takes
>>>>>>> about an hour.
>>>>>
>>>>>> They fly at 320 km/h, 10 metres above water
>>>>>
>>>>> Not when there are decent waves they dont.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Think it may have possibilities.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe ok for short haul flights or tourist transport, can't see it
>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>> of any use on major commuter routes.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Some of the Planes the NZ fleet is buying seats a 100 passengers
>>>>>
>>>>> Bullshit. And NZ isnt buying any.
>>>>>
>>>>>> (all economy Qantas seat 180)
>>>>>
>>>>> Wrong with the Dash 8s and SAAB 340Bs that QantasLink and Rex use.
>>>>>
>>>>>> at 320km/h should be in Melbourne/St Kilda under 2.5 hours.
>>>>>
>>>>> No chance and those steaming turds don't have the range for that.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Guessing the price but are really cheap (25% the cost) compared to
>>>>>>>> passenger jets, 4 times quicker than road or 8 times than a
>>>>>>>> train.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> See above, not that fast at all if they have to fly over water.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thought so at first but worked out their speed is around 320 km/h?
>>>>>> Altitude 10 metres above water.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not even possible with ocean waves.
>>>>
>>>> Not going to be safe with some waves well in excess of 10mtrs when you
>>>> get near Bass Strait.
>>>
>>> Bad weather a canceled flight.
>>> <https://www.ourcoast.org.au/inundation_report/ch03s02s04.php#:~:text=The%20measured%20significant%20wave%20height,m%20during%20winter%20and%20spring.>
>>> https://tinyurl.com/2zw27uf6
>>> How big can the waves get in the Bass Strait?
>>>
>>> The measured significant wave height reaches 6.4 m, with at least 50%
>>> of the waves being between 1 and 2 m. The average significant wave
>>> height over all seasons at this location is 1.7 m. Seasonally, the
>>> average wave height drops to 1.6 m in summer and autumn and returns to
>>> 1.7 m during winter and spring.
>>
>> What matters is the biggest ones, not the average waves.
>
> The can easily fly 40 metres high if they have to.

But then dont have the ground effect and dont have
the vastly better benefit of flying at high altitude either.

Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<op.1s229biebyq249@pvr2.lan>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1296&group=aus.aviation#1296

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger
freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 13:42:37 +1000
Lines: 100
Message-ID: <op.1s229biebyq249@pvr2.lan>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com>
<op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com>
<jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net>
<gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com> <op.1s2gjmpebyq249@pvr2.lan>
<jpc823Fdpu7U2@mid.individual.net>
<h6s1jhpeprehsndvu4idp8uhdjo9ag876k@4ax.com> <op.1s20stt7byq249@pvr2.lan>
<pi52jh19kej1d2ebstbgesksfm4i432i96@4ax.com> <op.1s226ppcbyq249@pvr2.lan>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net 62pfEOaUXf+W5k+/T2TAygTEmgl93C8RY7oRYpfPPLEPwiC70=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:b/mQZGVJJm0u0GNvvfK6wP01Jws=
User-Agent: Opera Mail/1.0 (Win32)
 by: Rod Speed - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 03:42 UTC

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 13:41:03 +1000, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 13:03:39 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:49:31 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 10:25:46 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 09:54:43 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 26/9/2022 5:32 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 10:36:09 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:56:21 +1000, Daryl
>>>>>>> <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 9:22 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 06:15:56 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>>>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7tKXMYzwW4>
>>>>>>>>>>> TV news about this
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just more mindless sales bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> $20 and 20 minutes from Sydney Harbour to Newcastle
>>>>>>>>> The planes are limited from harbour to harbour
>>>>>>>>> A hour from Sydney/Botany to Melbourne harbour.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pure fantasy since they supposed only fly over water, the route
>>>>>>>> Syd
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> Melb over water is considerably longer than over land and that
>>>>>>>> takes
>>>>>>>> about an hour.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They fly at 320 km/h, 10 metres above water
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not when there are decent waves they dont.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Think it may have possibilities.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe ok for short haul flights or tourist transport, can't see it
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> of any use on major commuter routes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some of the Planes the NZ fleet is buying seats a 100 passengers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bullshit. And NZ isnt buying any.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (all economy Qantas seat 180)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wrong with the Dash 8s and SAAB 340Bs that QantasLink and Rex use.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> at 320km/h should be in Melbourne/St Kilda under 2.5 hours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No chance and those steaming turds don't have the range for that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Guessing the price but are really cheap (25% the cost) compared
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> passenger jets, 4 times quicker than road or 8 times than a
>>>>>>>>> train.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> See above, not that fast at all if they have to fly over water.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thought so at first but worked out their speed is around 320 km/h?
>>>>>>> Altitude 10 metres above water.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not even possible with ocean waves.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not going to be safe with some waves well in excess of 10mtrs when
>>>>> you
>>>>> get near Bass Strait.
>>>>
>>>> Bad weather a canceled flight.
>>>> <https://www.ourcoast.org.au/inundation_report/ch03s02s04.php#:~:text=The%20measured%20significant%20wave%20height,m%20during%20winter%20and%20spring.>
>>>> https://tinyurl.com/2zw27uf6
>>>> How big can the waves get in the Bass Strait?
>>>>
>>>> The measured significant wave height reaches 6.4 m, with at least 50%
>>>> of the waves being between 1 and 2 m. The average significant wave
>>>> height over all seasons at this location is 1.7 m. Seasonally, the
>>>> average wave height drops to 1.6 m in summer and autumn and returns to
>>>> 1.7 m during winter and spring.
>>>
>>> What matters is the biggest ones, not the average waves.
>>
>> The can easily fly 40 metres high if they have to.
>
> But then dont have the ground effect and dont have
> the vastly better benefit of flying at high altitude either.

And you don't even know that it can fly at 40M either because no
one has ever actually built even one that can take even one pax.

Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<jpcqvqFgk3dU2@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1297&group=aus.aviation#1297

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger
freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 15:17:45 +1000
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <jpcqvqFgk3dU2@mid.individual.net>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com>
<op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com>
<jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net>
<gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com>
<jp9oaeF22v7U1@mid.individual.net>
<tbdvih1ctoj2rsicu8msgjv0lkboh1ilq8@4ax.com> <op.1s2gxym0byq249@pvr2.lan>
<3mm1jhdcftgv0utqfmrhfdhbhg25beemt6@4ax.com> <op.1s20jebzbyq249@pvr2.lan>
<5c52jhprujkvs2snghr1csd9sn1ck6nfuc@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net /QwPYdKYFyXeKsViEewc6gFsPba/mmaZcpylSuorINo2YuVRUw
Cancel-Lock: sha1:RXwG3VJFPBX+eA2kLCptO/h1Sk8=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.3.0
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <5c52jhprujkvs2snghr1csd9sn1ck6nfuc@4ax.com>
 by: Daryl - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 05:17 UTC

On 26/9/2022 1:00 pm, Petzl wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:43:52 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 800km at nearly 540kph in the 100-seater Monarchs using
>>> existing battery technology.
>>
>> Easy to claim, none of those have actually been built. NOT ONE.
>
> What you call this San Francisco USA video
> https://youtu.be/gS-aQ1kCfV8

CGI= Computer generated image

--
Daryl

Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<jpcr69Fgk3dU3@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1298&group=aus.aviation#1298

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!news.neodome.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger
freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 15:21:12 +1000
Lines: 131
Message-ID: <jpcr69Fgk3dU3@mid.individual.net>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com>
<op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com>
<jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net>
<gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com>
<jp9oaeF22v7U1@mid.individual.net>
<tbdvih1ctoj2rsicu8msgjv0lkboh1ilq8@4ax.com> <op.1s2gxym0byq249@pvr2.lan>
<3mm1jhdcftgv0utqfmrhfdhbhg25beemt6@4ax.com>
<jpc8d5Fdpu7U3@mid.individual.net> <op.1s20mcaxbyq249@pvr2.lan>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net elymz9p42ZuYtPx+LKyS+gWFvdkN0Jzzofu0/F13/3ViHDHE25
Cancel-Lock: sha1:Izf4g8yTO+HjQcTp/N+fnaIH6vw=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.3.0
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <op.1s20mcaxbyq249@pvr2.lan>
 by: Daryl - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 05:21 UTC

On 26/9/2022 12:45 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 10:00:37 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote:
>
>> On 26/9/2022 8:53 am, Petzl wrote:
>>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 05:40:36 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 12:15:35 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 11:13:50 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 10:36 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:56:21 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 9:22 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 06:15:56 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>>>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7tKXMYzwW4>
>>>>>>>>>>> TV news about this
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just more mindless sales bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> $20 and 20 minutes from Sydney Harbour to Newcastle
>>>>>>>>> The planes are limited from harbour to harbour
>>>>>>>>> A hour from Sydney/Botany to Melbourne harbour.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pure fantasy since they supposed only fly over water, the route
>>>>>>>> Syd to
>>>>>>>> Melb over water is considerably longer than over land and that
>>>>>>>> takes
>>>>>>>> about an hour.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They fly at 320 km/h, 10 metres above water
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Think it may have possibilities.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe ok for short haul flights or tourist transport, can't see it
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> of any use on major commuter routes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some of the Planes the NZ fleet is buying seats a 100 passengers
>>>>>>> (all
>>>>>>> economy Qantas seat 180) at 320km/h should be in Melbourne/St Kilda
>>>>>>> under 2.5 hours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Very unlikely, the distance over water would be more than 1200km, by
>>>>>> road its 889km plus the chances of the Govt allowing anyone to "fly"
>>>>>> 10mts above Port Phillip Bay at 320kph is zero simply because
>>>>>> there are
>>>>>> too many ships and boats on the bay.
>>>>>> I'd estimate the trip would take between 4 and 5hrs allowing for
>>>>>> having
>>>>>> to go a lot slower at either end plus the extra distance over water.
>>>>
>>>>> Big ships are now going to Botany.
>>>>
>>>> Pity about Newcastle and Melburg.
>>>>
>>>> Pity about the boats, ferrys etc.
>>>>
>>>>> It was their 12 seater that does 320kp/h
>>>>
>>>> There is no plane that does anything like that, its fantasy.
>>>>
>>>>> Their 100 seater Monarchs 800km range at nearly 540kph,
>>>>
>>>> There is no plane that does anything like that, its fantasy.
>>>>
>>>>> yes by sea
>>>>> Syd/Mel is 1200 km so they just need higher range than the kiwi ones.
>>>>
>>>> Pity about the ocean waves.
>>>>
>>>>> Cruise ships are going to Darling Harbour early morning leave late.
>>>>> Not problematic with scheduling
>>>>
>>>> Pity about the other end.
>>>>
>>>>> Be in St Kilda/Circular Quay in less than 1.5 hrs,
>>>>
>>>> Nof a chance.
>>>>
>>>>> yes they can fly
>>>>> under Sydney Harbour bridge, clearance over 49 metres.
>>>>
>>>> Pity about the ocean waves.
>>>>
>>> read on McDuff. That does not seem a issue in NZ.
>>>  https://www.oceanflyer.co.nz
>>> TECHNOLOGY
>>> Seagliders make use of the ‘wing-in-ground-effect (WIG)’ and have been
>>> built to leverage existing port infrastructure. The seagliders begin
>>> their journey with the hull in the water, rising onto foils as the
>>> speed increases before eventually generating lift so that the
>>> seaglider begins to fly in-ground-effect at about 10m above the water.
>>>  The aerodynamic advantage of the “ground effect” includes significant
>>> operational efficiencies, increased payload capability, greater range
>>> and speed.
>>>  Achieving aircraft speeds at a fraction of the operating cost, the
>>> Ocean Flyer seagliders will transport passengers and cargo over
>>> distances of up to 300km at nearly 300kph in the 12-seater Viceroys
>>> and up to 800km at nearly 540kph in the 100-seater Monarchs using
>>> existing battery technology.
>>>  The efficiency of seagliders means the operational costs are greatly
>>> reduced compared to existing modes of transportation. These savings
>>> will be passed on to the customer meaning travel fares will be up to
>>> 70% cheaper, without sacrificing time, comfort or experience.
>>
>> I can imagine some scenarios where such an aircraft would work well
>> but to suggest that could "fly" Syd to Melb" is just out of the question.
>> To be safe from waves and large ships it would need to fly at least
>> 100mtrs high then it would be out of ground effect so no advantage
>> over conventional aircraft.
>
> And a massive problem with boats and ships at each end of the flight.

Yep, I used to own a small boat and fished regularly on Port Phillip
Bay, its a very crowded water way.
Only safe way they could do it would be to have a dedicated corridor to
fly along and the chances of that happening are zip.

--
Daryl

Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger freight)

<jpcrevFgk3dU4@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1299&group=aus.aviation#1299

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: NZ buying25 first step electric powered sea planes (passenger
freight)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 15:25:50 +1000
Lines: 95
Message-ID: <jpcrevFgk3dU4@mid.individual.net>
References: <o1osihpspvhuv8ph5npqatd5vpouvc2fln@4ax.com>
<op.1s0nwuujbyq249@pvr2.lan> <dr3vih9jfoo8qih6m3upl1e0tia6scrt4j@4ax.com>
<jp9jp6F1glcU1@mid.individual.net>
<gp6vih5armi7bu7f76f1c3a3f0sgdflili@4ax.com> <op.1s2gjmpebyq249@pvr2.lan>
<jpc823Fdpu7U2@mid.individual.net>
<h6s1jhpeprehsndvu4idp8uhdjo9ag876k@4ax.com> <op.1s20stt7byq249@pvr2.lan>
<pi52jh19kej1d2ebstbgesksfm4i432i96@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net fXioSi+qEx9smy/Ptn4DtgLUl+Gc3WGBnqDb6UkMDUxbaQ8L5w
Cancel-Lock: sha1:gWFSj1OGpM4W7n7tDsw4NctoWSo=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.3.0
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <pi52jh19kej1d2ebstbgesksfm4i432i96@4ax.com>
 by: Daryl - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 05:25 UTC

On 26/9/2022 1:03 pm, Petzl wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 12:49:31 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 10:25:46 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 09:54:43 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 26/9/2022 5:32 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 10:36:09 +1000, Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:56:21 +1000, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25/9/2022 9:22 am, Petzl wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 06:15:56 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7tKXMYzwW4>
>>>>>>>>>> TV news about this
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just more mindless sales bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> $20 and 20 minutes from Sydney Harbour to Newcastle
>>>>>>>> The planes are limited from harbour to harbour
>>>>>>>> A hour from Sydney/Botany to Melbourne harbour.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pure fantasy since they supposed only fly over water, the route Syd
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> Melb over water is considerably longer than over land and that takes
>>>>>>> about an hour.
>>>>>
>>>>>> They fly at 320 km/h, 10 metres above water
>>>>>
>>>>> Not when there are decent waves they dont.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Think it may have possibilities.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe ok for short haul flights or tourist transport, can't see it
>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>> of any use on major commuter routes.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Some of the Planes the NZ fleet is buying seats a 100 passengers
>>>>>
>>>>> Bullshit. And NZ isnt buying any.
>>>>>
>>>>>> (all economy Qantas seat 180)
>>>>>
>>>>> Wrong with the Dash 8s and SAAB 340Bs that QantasLink and Rex use.
>>>>>
>>>>>> at 320km/h should be in Melbourne/St Kilda under 2.5 hours.
>>>>>
>>>>> No chance and those steaming turds don't have the range for that.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Guessing the price but are really cheap (25% the cost) compared to
>>>>>>>> passenger jets, 4 times quicker than road or 8 times than a train.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> See above, not that fast at all if they have to fly over water.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thought so at first but worked out their speed is around 320 km/h?
>>>>>> Altitude 10 metres above water.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not even possible with ocean waves.
>>>>
>>>> Not going to be safe with some waves well in excess of 10mtrs when you
>>>> get near Bass Strait.
>>>
>>> Bad weather a canceled flight.
>>> <https://www.ourcoast.org.au/inundation_report/ch03s02s04.php#:~:text=The%20measured%20significant%20wave%20height,m%20during%20winter%20and%20spring.>
>>> https://tinyurl.com/2zw27uf6
>>> How big can the waves get in the Bass Strait?
>>>
>>> The measured significant wave height reaches 6.4 m, with at least 50%
>>> of the waves being between 1 and 2 m. The average significant wave
>>> height over all seasons at this location is 1.7 m. Seasonally, the
>>> average wave height drops to 1.6 m in summer and autumn and returns to
>>> 1.7 m during winter and spring.
>>
>> What matters is the biggest ones, not the average waves.
>
> The can easily fly 40 metres high if they have to.

It would need to be equipped with ground hugging radar like what is
fitted to some fighter jets, it would be very difficult to "fly" at a
constant 10mtrs above the water at high speed when the surface of the
water is constantly moving without some very sophisticated radar
controlled auto pilot.

--
Daryl

Pages:123
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor