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aus+uk / uk.rec.gardening / Re: Cleavers

SubjectAuthor
* CleaversFran
+* Re: CleaversBill Davy
|+* Re: CleaversNick Maclaren
||`- Re: CleaversFran
|`- Re: CleaversFran
+* Re: CleaversChris Hogg
|+- Re: CleaversIan Jackson
|`- Re: CleaversFran
+* Re: CleaversAndy Burns
|+- Re: CleaversThe Natural Philosopher
|`- Re: CleaversFran
+* Re: CleaversJeff Layman
|`- Re: CleaversFran
`* Re: CleaversVir Campestris
 +- Re: CleaversDavid Hill
 `- Re: CleaversThe Natural Philosopher

1
Cleavers

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From: f2r...@loonynutters.com (Fran)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Cleavers
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2021 16:33:46 +1000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Fran - Thu, 19 Aug 2021 06:33 UTC

I'm now in my 70s and till recently, had never, ever come across cleavers.

I've got about a quarter of an acre of it and scattered amongst it are
bulbs so I'm loath to do a wholesale poison job on it. How do I deal
with this thug of a weed please?

Re: Cleavers

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From: Bil...@XchelSys.co.uk (Bill Davy)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Re: Cleavers
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2021 08:02:00 +0100
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 by: Bill Davy - Thu, 19 Aug 2021 07:02 UTC

On 19/08/2021 07:33, Fran wrote:
> I'm now in my 70s and till recently, had never, ever come across cleavers.
>
>  I've got about a quarter of an acre of it and scattered amongst it are
> bulbs so I'm loath to do a wholesale poison job on it. How do I deal
> with this thug of a weed please?

Is the weed foliage out at any time when the bulbs have died back? If
so, that would be a good time to apply glyphosate. Ideally before it
ses seed.

Cleavers are (perhaps a bit) edible:
https://www.eatweeds.co.uk/cleavers-galium-aparine

Bill

Re: Cleavers

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From: me...@privacy.net (Chris Hogg)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Re: Cleavers
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2021 08:03:32 +0100
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 by: Chris Hogg - Thu, 19 Aug 2021 07:03 UTC

On Thu, 19 Aug 2021 16:33:46 +1000, Fran <f2r2a3@loonynutters.com>
wrote:

>I'm now in my 70s and till recently, had never, ever come across cleavers.
>
> I've got about a quarter of an acre of it and scattered amongst it are
>bulbs so I'm loath to do a wholesale poison job on it. How do I deal
>with this thug of a weed please?

By 'cleavers' I assume you mean what I know as 'goosegrass', or
sometimes 'sticky willy'! It is an annual, and IME a few individual
plants are easily dealt with by simply pulling them out by hand, as
the roots are insubstantial. The key point is to get at it before it
sets seed.

But that may not be practical if you have a large area. Perhaps mow it
out before it sets seed, being careful to collect the cuttings and
take them to your local recycle centre that takes garden waste. If you
have a compost heap that gets hot, then you can put them in there, but
if it's a cold heap as many domestic heaps are, the seeds may survive.

There will still be seed in the ground that will germinate in later
years, but persistent removal of the plants before they set seed will
eventually get rid of it.

More here https://tinyurl.com/ygstfv38 and specifically here
https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=974

--
Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall, very mild, sheltered
from the West, but open to the North and East.

Re: Cleavers

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From: ianREMOV...@g3ohx.co.uk (Ian Jackson)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Re: Cleavers
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2021 08:19:01 +0100
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 by: Ian Jackson - Thu, 19 Aug 2021 07:19 UTC

In message <vvurhg9u1hk3eh1ipakt596p27a7opgk1m@4ax.com>, Chris Hogg
<me@privacy.net> writes
>On Thu, 19 Aug 2021 16:33:46 +1000, Fran <f2r2a3@loonynutters.com>
>wrote:
>
>>I'm now in my 70s and till recently, had never, ever come across cleavers.
>>
>> I've got about a quarter of an acre of it and scattered amongst it are
>>bulbs so I'm loath to do a wholesale poison job on it. How do I deal
>>with this thug of a weed please?
>
>By 'cleavers' I assume you mean what I know as 'goosegrass', or
>sometimes 'sticky willy'!

I've always known it as 'Robin-run-the-dyke' - but apart from a few
hits, Google hardly seems to have heard of that name.
>
>

--
Ian

Re: Cleavers

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From: use...@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Re: Cleavers
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2021 08:38:15 +0100
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 by: Andy Burns - Thu, 19 Aug 2021 07:38 UTC

Fran wrote:

> I've got about a quarter of an acre of it and scattered amongst it are
> bulbs so I'm loath to do a wholesale poison job on it.

Apply glyphosate using a weed-wiper instead of spray, to avoid getting
it on other plants?

Re: Cleavers

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Re: Cleavers
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2021 08:47:49 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Thu, 19 Aug 2021 07:47 UTC

On 19/08/2021 08:38, Andy Burns wrote:
> Fran wrote:
>
>> I've got about a quarter of an acre of it and scattered amongst it are
>> bulbs so I'm loath to do a wholesale poison job on it.
>
> Apply glyphosate using a weed-wiper instead of spray, to avoid getting
> it on other plants?

needless. Its an annual. just pull it all up.

--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

Re: Cleavers

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From: jmlay...@invalid.invalid (Jeff Layman)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Re: Cleavers
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2021 08:49:35 +0100
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 by: Jeff Layman - Thu, 19 Aug 2021 07:49 UTC

On 19/08/2021 07:33, Fran wrote:
> I'm now in my 70s and till recently, had never, ever come across cleavers.
>
> I've got about a quarter of an acre of it and scattered amongst it are
> bulbs so I'm loath to do a wholesale poison job on it. How do I deal
> with this thug of a weed please?

In my experience, it's not easy to kill bulbs with glyphosate.
Certainly, Spanish bluebells need at least three sprayings, and even
then if the bulblets have lost their connection to the main bulb they
won't get any glyphosate in them. I'm not sure about single bulbs,
though. Even so, cleavers are generally a summer plant, and by then
spring bulb foliage will have died down. What bulbs are you concerned about?

--

Jeff

Re: Cleavers

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From: nmm...@wheeler.UUCP (Nick Maclaren)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Re: Cleavers
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2021 10:45:32 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Old Fogies Society
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 by: Nick Maclaren - Thu, 19 Aug 2021 10:45 UTC

In article <io6dv9FohbbU1@mid.individual.net>,
Bill Davy <Bill@XchelSys.co.uk> wrote:
>On 19/08/2021 07:33, Fran wrote:
>> I'm now in my 70s and till recently, had never, ever come across cleavers.
>>
>> I've got about a quarter of an acre of it and scattered amongst it are
>> bulbs so I'm loath to do a wholesale poison job on it. How do I deal
>> with this thug of a weed please?
>
>Is the weed foliage out at any time when the bulbs have died back? If
>so, that would be a good time to apply glyphosate. Ideally before it
>ses seed.

Glyphosate will NOT help, unless applied several times a year for
several years, which will harm the bulbs, because it will simply regrow
from seeds in the ground. The simplest solution is raking when it has
grown but before the seeds have set. A mechanical rake is assuredly
possible, but I don't know if you can get one - a lawn rake will not
do, as they rake far too 'close'.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Re: Cleavers

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From: f2r...@loonynutters.com (Fran)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Re: Cleavers
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 12:11:22 +1000
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 by: Fran - Fri, 20 Aug 2021 02:11 UTC

On 19/08/2021 5:02 pm, Bill Davy wrote:
> On 19/08/2021 07:33, Fran wrote:
>> I'm now in my 70s and till recently, had never, ever come across
>> cleavers.
>>
>>   I've got about a quarter of an acre of it and scattered amongst it
>> are bulbs so I'm loath to do a wholesale poison job on it. How do I
>> deal with this thug of a weed please?
>
> Is the weed foliage out at any time when the bulbs have died back?  If
> so, that would be a good time to apply glyphosate.  Ideally before it
> ses seed.

It's the seed set that's go me nervous. Not knowing anything aobut the
darnes stuff till last year, I'm now feeling unable to cope tih the thug.

I might have to try for a window to spray next spring as my bulbs are
too advanced now to do targetted spraying till next year
>
> Cleavers are (perhaps a bit) edible:
> https://www.eatweeds.co.uk/cleavers-galium-aparine

:-)) My hens love it but I think I'll give it a pass.

That is a really interesting site - thanks for posting it.

Re: Cleavers

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From: f2r...@loonynutters.com (Fran)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Re: Cleavers
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 12:17:12 +1000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Fran - Fri, 20 Aug 2021 02:17 UTC

On 19/08/2021 8:45 pm, Nick Maclaren wrote:
> In article <io6dv9FohbbU1@mid.individual.net>,
> Bill Davy <Bill@XchelSys.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 19/08/2021 07:33, Fran wrote:
>>> I'm now in my 70s and till recently, had never, ever come across cleavers.
>>>
>>> I've got about a quarter of an acre of it and scattered amongst it are
>>> bulbs so I'm loath to do a wholesale poison job on it. How do I deal
>>> with this thug of a weed please?
>>
>> Is the weed foliage out at any time when the bulbs have died back? If
>> so, that would be a good time to apply glyphosate. Ideally before it
>> ses seed.
>
> Glyphosate will NOT help, unless applied several times a year for
> several years, which will harm the bulbs, because it will simply regrow
> from seeds in the ground. The simplest solution is raking when it has
> grown but before the seeds have set. A mechanical rake is assuredly
> possible, but I don't know if you can get one - a lawn rake will not
> do, as they rake far too 'close'.

Thanks Nick. I have a retractable rake where the tines can be set at
various differing widths apart and I use it a lot for general garden
duties that aren't necessarily described as 'raking'. Your suggestion
sounds like this rake would be ideal for that task.

I know this thug is going to take me a lot of effort to defeat and that
I'll need multiple approaches over several years.

Re: Cleavers

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From: f2r...@loonynutters.com (Fran)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Re: Cleavers
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 12:34:26 +1000
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 by: Fran - Fri, 20 Aug 2021 02:34 UTC

On 19/08/2021 5:03 pm, Chris Hogg wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Aug 2021 16:33:46 +1000, Fran <f2r2a3@loonynutters.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I'm now in my 70s and till recently, had never, ever come across cleavers.
>>
>> I've got about a quarter of an acre of it and scattered amongst it are
>> bulbs so I'm loath to do a wholesale poison job on it. How do I deal
>> with this thug of a weed please?
>
> By 'cleavers' I assume you mean what I know as 'goosegrass', or
> sometimes 'sticky willy'! It is an annual, and IME a few individual
> plants are easily dealt with by simply pulling them out by hand, as
> the roots are insubstantial. The key point is to get at it before it
> sets seed.

It took me a long time to identify it because here no-one seemed to call
it anything other than 'sticky weed'. It is what British sites call
'cleavers (Galium aparine)
>
> But that may not be practical if you have a large area. Perhaps mow it
> out before it sets seed,

It's most rampant in garden beds so mowing is not and option :-(

being careful to collect the cuttings and
> take them to your local recycle centre that takes garden waste. If you
> have a compost heap that gets hot, then you can put them in there, but
> if it's a cold heap as many domestic heaps are, the seeds may survive.

Thanks - we take our garden waste to the tip in trailer loads and that
is where the thug (and ivy, vinca, Lords and Ladies) and the other
garden thugs get dumped.
>
> There will still be seed in the ground that will germinate in later
> years, but persistent removal of the plants before they set seed will
> eventually get rid of it.
>
> More here https://tinyurl.com/ygstfv38 and specifically here
> https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=974

Thanks for those cites. I liked the RHS one as it mentions cleavers
being a food for butterflies. We have a lot of them here (which we're
ahppy about) so perhaps I need to do some more research on the thug and
any other potential benefits it might have. In addition to being good
hen forage that is.

Re: Cleavers

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From: f2r...@loonynutters.com (Fran)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Re: Cleavers
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 12:37:13 +1000
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 by: Fran - Fri, 20 Aug 2021 02:37 UTC

On 19/08/2021 5:38 pm, Andy Burns wrote:
> Fran wrote:
>
>> I've got about a quarter of an acre of it and scattered amongst it are
>> bulbs so I'm loath to do a wholesale poison job on it.
>
> Apply glyphosate using a weed-wiper instead of spray, to avoid getting
> it on other plants?

For heavens sake! Why didn't I think of that! I've been using bits of
cardboard to shield plants as I sprayed and didn't even think of a
wicking weed wiper!

We're in Covid lockdown at the moment and I got rid of our last weed
wiper when we moved here a couple of years ago. I wonder if the rules
will let me do run to the hardware shop to buy one...

Thank you for the suggestion.have a lot of butterflies here 9which I'm
pleased about so perhaps I need to do more research on the thug before
trying to eradicate it all.

Re: Cleavers

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From: f2r...@loonynutters.com (Fran)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Re: Cleavers
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 12:50:35 +1000
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 by: Fran - Fri, 20 Aug 2021 02:50 UTC

On 19/08/2021 5:49 pm, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 19/08/2021 07:33, Fran wrote:
>> I'm now in my 70s and till recently, had never, ever come across
>> cleavers.
>>
>>    I've got about a quarter of an acre of it and scattered amongst it are
>> bulbs so I'm loath to do a wholesale poison job on it. How do I deal
>> with this thug of a weed please?
>
> In my experience, it's not easy to kill bulbs with glyphosate.
> Certainly, Spanish bluebells need at least three sprayings, and even
> then if the bulblets have lost their connection to the main bulb they
> won't get any glyphosate in them. I'm not sure about single bulbs,
> though. Even so, cleavers are generally a summer plant, and by then
> spring bulb foliage will have died down. What bulbs are you concerned
> about?

Many of the clumps are huge and haven't flowered since we moved here a
couple of years ago so I've got no idea what they are. Many of the
clumps are narcissus of various sorts, some are hyacinths, and there are
some clumps of Spanish bluebells. There are also many clumps of tiny
bulbs that I've never grown and so don't know their names. I've also
got some South African ones that I'd never, ever seen on a lifetime's
gardening and although I've put their name in my gardening folder, I
can't now recall it. There are also about a squillion Iris rhizomes too.

What I have been doing where I have used glyphosate (eg round dormant
bushes which are now starting to all wake up), is to use a stronger dose
(anywhere up to 40ml/L) and to add kerosene and to add a couple of drops
of dishwashing liquid. So far this mix has worked where I've managed to
apply it but I do worry about that dosage rate near any of the plants
I'd like to keep.

I might try using it near a sacraficial clump where I both know what the
bulbs are and am prepared to lose them. I know I'll fell like a bulb
murderer though.

Re: Cleavers

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From: vir.camp...@invalid.invalid (Vir Campestris)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Re: Cleavers
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2021 21:15:47 +0100
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 by: Vir Campestris - Thu, 26 Aug 2021 20:15 UTC

On 19/08/2021 07:33, Fran wrote:
> I'm now in my 70s and till recently, had never, ever come across cleavers.
>
>  I've got about a quarter of an acre of it and scattered amongst it are
> bulbs so I'm loath to do a wholesale poison job on it. How do I deal
> with this thug of a weed please?

This is a thug?

We have it a bit.

It's not a problem because it doesn't sting, doesn't prickle, doesn't
regrow from the roots, and is really easy to pull up.

OK, we don't have a quarter of an acre, but I'd rather have it than a
lot of other things. Like the ivy which seems to be endemic here...

Andy

Re: Cleavers

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From: dav...@abacus-nurseries.co.uk (David Hill)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Re: Cleavers
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 by: David Hill - Thu, 26 Aug 2021 21:26 UTC

On 26/08/2021 21:15, Vir Campestris wrote:
> On 19/08/2021 07:33, Fran wrote:
>> I'm now in my 70s and till recently, had never, ever come across
>> cleavers.
>>
>>   I've got about a quarter of an acre of it and scattered amongst it
>> are bulbs so I'm loath to do a wholesale poison job on it. How do I
>> deal with this thug of a weed please?
>
> This is a thug?
>
> We have it a bit.
>
> It's not a problem because it doesn't sting, doesn't prickle, doesn't
> regrow from the roots, and is really easy to pull up.
>
> OK, we don't have a quarter of an acre, but I'd rather have it than a
> lot of other things. Like the ivy which seems to be endemic here...
>
> Andy

https://thebackyardherbalistschool.com/cleavers-a-common-weed-with-amazing-plant-medicine/

Re: Cleavers

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening
Subject: Re: Cleavers
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 02:23:52 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Fri, 27 Aug 2021 01:23 UTC

On 26/08/2021 21:15, Vir Campestris wrote:
> On 19/08/2021 07:33, Fran wrote:
>> I'm now in my 70s and till recently, had never, ever come across
>> cleavers.
>>
>>   I've got about a quarter of an acre of it and scattered amongst it
>> are bulbs so I'm loath to do a wholesale poison job on it. How do I
>> deal with this thug of a weed please?
>
> This is a thug?
>
> We have it a bit.
>
> It's not a problem because it doesn't sting, doesn't prickle, doesn't
> regrow from the roots, and is really easy to pull up.

👍👍👍👍👍👍

And leather gloves cope with young nettles and brambles.

>
> OK, we don't have a quarter of an acre, but I'd rather have it than a
> lot of other things. Like the ivy which seems to be endemic here...
>

Bindweed is my hate. It has deep roots, its perennial and its always
inside the plant whose roots you want to preserve.

Ivy? - just cut it at ground level. And keep on cutting it at ground
level. Well you never see it in a lawn do you?

But the secret with most of the perennial weeds and indeed annuals is
just put in the man hours to take them out. After about three goes on a
flower bed or hedge the stuff you didn't want has gone and the seeds
have all germinated and been thwacked, and the ground is more or less ok
for a quick weed over 6 weeks or so.

> Andy

--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

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