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aus+uk / uk.comp.homebuilt / hdmi woes

SubjectAuthor
* hdmi woesMike Scott
+* Re: hdmi woesSH
|+- Re: hdmi woesSH
|`* Re: hdmi woesMike Scott
| `* Re: hdmi woesSH
|  `- Re: hdmi woesMike Scott
`* Re: hdmi woesTheo
 +* Re: hdmi woesChris
 |`- Re: hdmi woesMike Scott
 `- Re: hdmi woesMike Scott

1
hdmi woes

<shnrd0$l41$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1347&group=uk.comp.homebuilt#1347

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From: usenet...@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid (Mike Scott)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: hdmi woes
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2021 16:40:15 +0100
Organization: Scott family
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 by: Mike Scott - Mon, 13 Sep 2021 15:40 UTC

I hope this isn't an inappropriate forum for this topic.

Our church has a newish optoma projector, and I've been trying to use
this with a recent dell laptop (hdmi output).

The problem is that whenever I've connected them up at the church, the
projector declares there's nothing connected, while the laptop can 'see'
the projector but won't allow its use. This state persists across all
reboots and cable changes -- but will suddenly after minutes (a good 3/4
hour yesterday) suddenly burst into life and work perfectly, all of its
own accord.

Yesterday, apart from reseating the connectors, we tried 3 cables of
varying length (all failed). The laptop was fine running into a TV
display, and the projector worked happily connected to a someone's
tablet's hdmi output. Yet lappy plus projector failed for the extended
period before bursting spontaneously into operation.

The laptop is running a recent Mint - the monitor preferences box
detects and shows the projector and allows the usual operations, which
apparently succeed. Applications like Libreoffice and OBS which could
use the second screen do not however (in the 'fault' state) offer that
option at all.

OTOH, I've tried the exact same combo at home today, and it works 100%
perfectly, and I cannot make it fail.

I'm wondering about hdmi tolerances - might the lappy be on an edge in
one direction, the projector in the other? Otherwise it can only,
surely, be gremlins :-|

Any help would be appreciated - thanks.

--
Mike Scott
Harlow, England

Re: hdmi woes

<shnrv2$1269$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1348&group=uk.comp.homebuilt#1348

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From: i.love.s...@spam.com (SH)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: hdmi woes
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2021 16:49:55 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <shnrv2$1269$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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 by: SH - Mon, 13 Sep 2021 15:49 UTC

On 13/09/2021 16:40, Mike Scott wrote:
> I hope this isn't an inappropriate forum for this topic.
>
> Our church has a newish optoma projector, and I've been trying to use
> this with a recent dell laptop (hdmi output).
>
> The problem is that whenever I've connected them up at the church, the
> projector declares there's nothing connected, while the laptop can 'see'
> the projector but won't allow its use. This state persists across all
> reboots and cable changes -- but will suddenly after minutes (a good 3/4
> hour yesterday) suddenly burst into life and work perfectly, all of its
> own accord.
>
> Yesterday, apart from reseating the connectors, we tried 3 cables of
> varying length (all failed). The laptop was fine running into a TV
> display, and the projector worked happily connected to a someone's
> tablet's hdmi output. Yet lappy plus projector failed for the extended
> period before bursting spontaneously into operation.
>
> The laptop is running a recent Mint -  the monitor preferences box
> detects and shows the projector and allows the usual operations, which
> apparently succeed. Applications like Libreoffice and OBS which could
> use the second screen do not however (in the 'fault' state) offer that
> option at all.
>
> OTOH, I've tried the exact same combo at home today, and it works 100%
> perfectly, and I cannot make it fail.
>
> I'm wondering about hdmi tolerances - might the lappy be on an edge in
> one direction, the projector in the other? Otherwise it can only,
> surely, be gremlins :-|
>
> Any help would be appreciated - thanks.
>
>

Might be worth looking into HDCP..... This is a content protection
system so maybe the two are not agreeing on HDCP and hence the
connection fails.

Re: hdmi woes

<shnsa0$174o$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: i.love.s...@spam.com (SH)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: hdmi woes
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2021 16:55:45 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <shnsa0$174o$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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 by: SH - Mon, 13 Sep 2021 15:55 UTC

On 13/09/2021 16:49, SH wrote:
> On 13/09/2021 16:40, Mike Scott wrote:
>> I hope this isn't an inappropriate forum for this topic.
>>
>> Our church has a newish optoma projector, and I've been trying to use
>> this with a recent dell laptop (hdmi output).
>>
>> The problem is that whenever I've connected them up at the church, the
>> projector declares there's nothing connected, while the laptop can
>> 'see' the projector but won't allow its use. This state persists
>> across all reboots and cable changes -- but will suddenly after
>> minutes (a good 3/4 hour yesterday) suddenly burst into life and work
>> perfectly, all of its own accord.
>>
>> Yesterday, apart from reseating the connectors, we tried 3 cables of
>> varying length (all failed). The laptop was fine running into a TV
>> display, and the projector worked happily connected to a someone's
>> tablet's hdmi output. Yet lappy plus projector failed for the extended
>> period before bursting spontaneously into operation.
>>
>> The laptop is running a recent Mint -  the monitor preferences box
>> detects and shows the projector and allows the usual operations, which
>> apparently succeed. Applications like Libreoffice and OBS which could
>> use the second screen do not however (in the 'fault' state) offer that
>> option at all.
>>
>> OTOH, I've tried the exact same combo at home today, and it works 100%
>> perfectly, and I cannot make it fail.
>>
>> I'm wondering about hdmi tolerances - might the lappy be on an edge in
>> one direction, the projector in the other? Otherwise it can only,
>> surely, be gremlins :-|
>>
>> Any help would be appreciated - thanks.
>>
>>
>
>
> Might be worth looking into HDCP..... This is a content protection
> system so maybe the two are not agreeing on HDCP and hence the
> connection fails.

https://www.howtogeek.com/208917/htg-explains-how-hdcp-breaks-your-hdtv-and-how-to-fix-it/

Re: hdmi woes

<shnt0t$d2v$1@dont-email.me>

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From: usenet...@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid (Mike Scott)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: hdmi woes
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2021 17:07:57 +0100
Organization: Scott family
Lines: 54
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 by: Mike Scott - Mon, 13 Sep 2021 16:07 UTC

On 13/09/2021 16:49, SH wrote:
> On 13/09/2021 16:40, Mike Scott wrote:
>> I hope this isn't an inappropriate forum for this topic.
>>
>> Our church has a newish optoma projector, and I've been trying to use
>> this with a recent dell laptop (hdmi output).
>>
>> The problem is that whenever I've connected them up at the church, the
>> projector declares there's nothing connected, while the laptop can
>> 'see' the projector but won't allow its use. This state persists
>> across all reboots and cable changes -- but will suddenly after
>> minutes (a good 3/4 hour yesterday) suddenly burst into life and work
>> perfectly, all of its own accord.
>>
>> Yesterday, apart from reseating the connectors, we tried 3 cables of
>> varying length (all failed). The laptop was fine running into a TV
>> display, and the projector worked happily connected to a someone's
>> tablet's hdmi output. Yet lappy plus projector failed for the extended
>> period before bursting spontaneously into operation.
>>
>> The laptop is running a recent Mint -  the monitor preferences box
>> detects and shows the projector and allows the usual operations, which
>> apparently succeed. Applications like Libreoffice and OBS which could
>> use the second screen do not however (in the 'fault' state) offer that
>> option at all.
>>
>> OTOH, I've tried the exact same combo at home today, and it works 100%
>> perfectly, and I cannot make it fail.
>>
>> I'm wondering about hdmi tolerances - might the lappy be on an edge in
>> one direction, the projector in the other? Otherwise it can only,
>> surely, be gremlins :-|
>>
>> Any help would be appreciated - thanks.
>>
>>
>
>
> Might be worth looking into HDCP..... This is a content protection
> system so maybe the two are not agreeing on HDCP and hence the
> connection fails.

Thanks for the thought, but hdcp issues would presumably cause a hard
failure. I can't see it failing for a while, then suddenly working. And
it works today just as we'd want.

BTW the content isn't - or rather, I can't see why it would be -
protected. All home-brew presentation stuff. Works fine with lappy plus
home TV, which is probably going to be more picky than a projector.

--
Mike Scott
Harlow, England

Re: hdmi woes

<shnth1$1vb0$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: i.love.s...@spam.com (SH)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: hdmi woes
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2021 17:16:34 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <shnth1$1vb0$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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 by: SH - Mon, 13 Sep 2021 16:16 UTC

On 13/09/2021 17:07, Mike Scott wrote:
> On 13/09/2021 16:49, SH wrote:
>> On 13/09/2021 16:40, Mike Scott wrote:
>>> I hope this isn't an inappropriate forum for this topic.
>>>
>>> Our church has a newish optoma projector, and I've been trying to use
>>> this with a recent dell laptop (hdmi output).
>>>
>>> The problem is that whenever I've connected them up at the church,
>>> the projector declares there's nothing connected, while the laptop
>>> can 'see' the projector but won't allow its use. This state persists
>>> across all reboots and cable changes -- but will suddenly after
>>> minutes (a good 3/4 hour yesterday) suddenly burst into life and work
>>> perfectly, all of its own accord.
>>>
>>> Yesterday, apart from reseating the connectors, we tried 3 cables of
>>> varying length (all failed). The laptop was fine running into a TV
>>> display, and the projector worked happily connected to a someone's
>>> tablet's hdmi output. Yet lappy plus projector failed for the
>>> extended period before bursting spontaneously into operation.
>>>
>>> The laptop is running a recent Mint -  the monitor preferences box
>>> detects and shows the projector and allows the usual operations,
>>> which apparently succeed. Applications like Libreoffice and OBS which
>>> could use the second screen do not however (in the 'fault' state)
>>> offer that option at all.
>>>
>>> OTOH, I've tried the exact same combo at home today, and it works
>>> 100% perfectly, and I cannot make it fail.
>>>
>>> I'm wondering about hdmi tolerances - might the lappy be on an edge
>>> in one direction, the projector in the other? Otherwise it can only,
>>> surely, be gremlins :-|
>>>
>>> Any help would be appreciated - thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Might be worth looking into HDCP..... This is a content protection
>> system so maybe the two are not agreeing on HDCP and hence the
>> connection fails.
>
> Thanks for the thought, but hdcp issues would presumably cause a hard
> failure. I can't see it failing for a while, then suddenly working. And
> it works today just as we'd want.
>
> BTW the content isn't - or rather, I can't see why it would be -
> protected. All home-brew presentation stuff. Works fine with lappy plus
> home TV, which is probably going to be more picky than a projector.
>
>

There are also several versions of HDMI, along with different HDMI cable
versions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

https://www.electronics-notes.com/articles/audio-video/hdmi/hdmi-versions.php

https://www.cablestogo.com/learning/library/desktop-connectivity/hdmi-comparison-chart

So might be worth at least checking the HDMI version supported by the
cable exceeds the versions used on the laptop and on the projector.

Also Cable length can be an issue.

Also someone in the newsgroups highlighted an interference issue as HDMI
operates at up to 680 MHz.

S.

Re: hdmi woes

<Reh*BD+ty@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: hdmi woes
Date: 13 Sep 2021 19:50:23 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
Lines: 14
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Originator: theom@chiark.greenend.org.uk ([212.13.197.229])
 by: Theo - Mon, 13 Sep 2021 18:50 UTC

Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> wrote:
> The problem is that whenever I've connected them up at the church, the
> projector declares there's nothing connected, while the laptop can 'see'
> the projector but won't allow its use. This state persists across all
> reboots and cable changes -- but will suddenly after minutes (a good 3/4
> hour yesterday) suddenly burst into life and work perfectly, all of its
> own accord.

Is this an on-the-ceiling projector or a table one? Is there anything
between the laptop and the protector (video switch, booster, etc)? Can you
try a 1m cable direct into the projector, skipping anything else that might
be installed?

Theo

Re: hdmi woes

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From: ithink...@gmail.com (Chris)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: hdmi woes
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2021 21:00:30 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Chris - Mon, 13 Sep 2021 21:00 UTC

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> wrote:
>> The problem is that whenever I've connected them up at the church, the
>> projector declares there's nothing connected, while the laptop can 'see'
>> the projector but won't allow its use. This state persists across all
>> reboots and cable changes -- but will suddenly after minutes (a good 3/4
>> hour yesterday) suddenly burst into life and work perfectly, all of its
>> own accord.
>
> Is this an on-the-ceiling projector or a table one? Is there anything
> between the laptop and the protector (video switch, booster, etc)? Can you
> try a 1m cable direct into the projector, skipping anything else that might
> be installed?

Yep. I had issues with my mac when it connected to a 4k TV via an "A/V"
breakout box. It was intermittent too. We shortened the cable and it work
more reliably.

To the OP do lower resolutions work better?

Re: hdmi woes

<shpjq4$ukp$1@dont-email.me>

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From: usenet...@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid (Mike Scott)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: hdmi woes
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2021 08:42:59 +0100
Organization: Scott family
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 by: Mike Scott - Tue, 14 Sep 2021 07:42 UTC

On 13/09/2021 17:16, SH wrote:
> On 13/09/2021 17:07, Mike Scott wrote:
>> On 13/09/2021 16:49, SH wrote:
>>> On 13/09/2021 16:40, Mike Scott wrote:
>>>> I hope this isn't an inappropriate forum for this topic.
>>>>
>>>> Our church has a newish optoma projector, and I've been trying to
>>>> use this with a recent dell laptop (hdmi output).
>>>>
>>>> The problem is that whenever I've connected them up at the church,
>>>> the projector declares there's nothing connected, while the laptop
>>>> can 'see' the projector but won't allow its use. This state persists
>>>> across all reboots and cable changes -- but will suddenly after
>>>> minutes (a good 3/4 hour yesterday) suddenly burst into life and
>>>> work perfectly, all of its own accord.
............
>>>> Any help would be appreciated - thanks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Might be worth looking into HDCP..... This is a content protection
>>> system so maybe the two are not agreeing on HDCP and hence the
>>> connection fails.
>>
>> Thanks for the thought, but hdcp issues would presumably cause a hard
>> failure. I can't see it failing for a while, then suddenly working.
>> And it works today just as we'd want.
>>
>> BTW the content isn't - or rather, I can't see why it would be -
>> protected. All home-brew presentation stuff. Works fine with lappy
>> plus home TV, which is probably going to be more picky than a projector.
>>
>>
>
>
> There are also several versions of HDMI, along with different HDMI cable
> versions:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI
>
> https://www.electronics-notes.com/articles/audio-video/hdmi/hdmi-versions.php
>
>
> https://www.cablestogo.com/learning/library/desktop-connectivity/hdmi-comparison-chart

Hmm. That's a thought and I'll check, but again, I'd have thought (well,
hoped) that recent kit would inter-operate. Also, that doesn't suggest
why sometimes it fails rock-solid, sometimes works perfectly, and
switches from fails to works apparently randomly (but never the other way).
>
>
> So might be worth at least checking the HDMI version supported by the
> cable exceeds the versions used on the laptop and on the projector.
>
> Also Cable length can be an issue.

I wondered; but on Sunday, it failed with the long (15m) cable, so we
swapped for a 2m - no difference. IIRC 16m is well within spec.

>
> Also someone in the newsgroups highlighted an interference issue as HDMI
> operates at up to 680 MHz.

That one I'm not sure how best to check. A friend commented yesterday (I
quote) "Hmmmmm. Like the WiFi and the taxi messages!" and although I'm
not aware of current issues with either, IIRC there have been past
problems with VHF mic's.

Thanks for the comments.

--
Mike Scott
Harlow, England

Re: hdmi woes

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From: usenet...@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid (Mike Scott)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: hdmi woes
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2021 08:45:11 +0100
Organization: Scott family
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 by: Mike Scott - Tue, 14 Sep 2021 07:45 UTC

On 13/09/2021 19:50, Theo wrote:
> Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> wrote:
>> The problem is that whenever I've connected them up at the church, the
>> projector declares there's nothing connected, while the laptop can 'see'
>> the projector but won't allow its use. This state persists across all
>> reboots and cable changes -- but will suddenly after minutes (a good 3/4
>> hour yesterday) suddenly burst into life and work perfectly, all of its
>> own accord.
>
> Is this an on-the-ceiling projector or a table one? Is there anything
> between the laptop and the protector (video switch, booster, etc)? Can you
> try a 1m cable direct into the projector, skipping anything else that might
> be installed?
>
> Theo
>

As used, table-top. It's a neat short-throw projector. We tried a short
(1.5 or two metres, not sure now) cable but it made no difference. And
the long one (15m) worked fine yesterday.

--
Mike Scott
Harlow, England

Re: hdmi woes

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From: usenet...@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid (Mike Scott)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: hdmi woes
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2021 08:48:13 +0100
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 by: Mike Scott - Tue, 14 Sep 2021 07:48 UTC

On 13/09/2021 22:00, Chris wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> wrote:
>>> The problem is that whenever I've connected them up at the church, the
>>> projector declares there's nothing connected, while the laptop can 'see'
>>> the projector but won't allow its use. This state persists across all
>>> reboots and cable changes -- but will suddenly after minutes (a good 3/4
>>> hour yesterday) suddenly burst into life and work perfectly, all of its
>>> own accord.
>>
>> Is this an on-the-ceiling projector or a table one? Is there anything
>> between the laptop and the protector (video switch, booster, etc)? Can you
>> try a 1m cable direct into the projector, skipping anything else that might
>> be installed?
>
> Yep. I had issues with my mac when it connected to a 4k TV via an "A/V"
> breakout box. It was intermittent too. We shortened the cable and it work
> more reliably.
>
> To the OP do lower resolutions work better?

That's something I didn't think to try on Sunday. As the system is
currently working, I'll have to wait for the next failure (which always
seems to be at point of need, never when testing :-{ )

BTW, just a plain cable connection from lappy to projector, no
intermediate junctions of any sort.

Thanks.

--
Mike Scott
Harlow, England

1
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rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor