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aus+uk / aus.cars / OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

SubjectAuthor
* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Noddy
+- OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Clocky
+* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Daryl
|`* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Noddy
| `* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Daryl
|  `* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Noddy
|   `* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Daryl
|    `* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Noddy
|     +- OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Xeno
|     `* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Daryl
|      `* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Noddy
|       +* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Daryl
|       |`- OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Noddy
|       `- OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Xeno
+* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Trevor Wilson
|+* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Clocky
||`* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Trevor Wilson
|| +* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Daryl
|| |+* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Trevor Wilson
|| ||+* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Noddy
|| |||`* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Clocky
|| ||| `- OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Xeno
|| ||+- OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Clocky
|| ||`- OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Daryl
|| |`* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Noddy
|| | `- OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Xeno
|| +* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Noddy
|| |`- OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Xeno
|| `- OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Clocky
|`* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Noddy
| +* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Trevor Wilson
| |+* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Noddy
| ||`* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Trevor Wilson
| || `* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Noddy
| ||  `* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Trevor Wilson
| ||   +* OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Noddy
| ||   |`- OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Xeno
| ||   `- OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Clocky
| |`- OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Clocky
| `- OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)Xeno
`- OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)alvey

Pages:12
OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

<t3g0ds$hna$1@dont-email.me>

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From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:09:46 +1000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Noddy - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 03:09 UTC

All,

Some might recall a couple of weeks ago where I mentioned that a
friend's Dad had a Mazda 6 with dead power steering that a Mazda dealer
had quoted almost 4 grand to repair as it needed a new ECU. Well, those
details weren't 100% accurate, but they weren't far from the mark :)

I've had the vehicle sitting here for a week waiting for parts to
arrive, and as it was handed back to it's delighted owner yesterday
after I repaired it I thought I'd follow up and share the details.

The car in question is a 2009 Mazda 6 sedan, and it's problem was non
functioning power steering. These cars have a complicated power steering
system whereby it's fully electric with a motor in the steering rack
itself, and it works by driving the rack through a worm gear. To provide
steering assistance the motor simply spins left or right to act on the
worm gear and move the rack.

However, to accomplish that reliably and provide the right amount of
assistance for the conditions the motor obviously needs to be variable,
and it needs to be controlled according to things like vehicle speed,
engine RPM and the amount of torque applied to the steering column. To
that end is has sensors monitoring all of these variables, and the
output of all those sensors is fed into a controller that connects to
the steering column itself.

How in the blue fuck Mazda thought this was a better way to do things
than a plain old hydraulic system or even electric hydraulic is beyond
me, but apparently they do and in doing so opened up a world of failure
points.

Anyway, the problem with this car was that the power steering controller
decided that it didn't want to play anymore and it needed to be
replaced. This is the steering controller here:

> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSW

It's a small metal box with enough electronic smarts inside it to
qualify as a 1980's EGA video card, and it lives bolted to the firewall
in the engine bay underneath the battery.

The car was taken to the nearest Mazda dealer to the owner's house where
they charged 136 bucks for the privilege of plugging their code scanner
into the car and have it tell them what was wrong with it. From this
they deduced that it needs a new controller, and quoted $3589 to supply
and fit one, with a "re-assess" required to see if that cured the problem :)

Here's the quote:

> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSY

Of course the owner wasn't going to pay such a ridiculous repair bill on
a car that is probably worth not much more than that, so he bought it to
me.

I checked it out, confirmed that the power steering controller was
indeed not giving any output signals, and ordered a second hand
replacement controller from a wrecker in NSW where it was delivered to
me for 170 bucks.

The offending controller on the left, and the used replacement on the right:

> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSX

Takes around an hour to fit, and once hooked up needs to be coded to the
car to make it work. Once I did that it was simply a matter of setting
the travel limits by applying full steering lock in one direction and
then the other and Bob's your uncle. The car was back to normal, driving
well and the owner was over the moon at his total out of pocket expenses
being the 170 bucks for the replacement controller as I didn't charge
them anything for my time.

Job done.
--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

<t3g1k3$mgo$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=13819&group=aus.cars#13819

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: notgo...@happen.com (Clocky)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 11:30:12 +0800
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Clocky - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 03:30 UTC

On 17/04/2022 11:09 am, Noddy wrote:
> All,
>
> Some might recall a couple of weeks ago where I mentioned that a
> friend's Dad had a Mazda 6 with dead power steering that a Mazda dealer
> had quoted almost 4 grand to repair as it needed a new ECU. Well, those
> details weren't 100% accurate, but they weren't far from the mark :)
>
> I've had the vehicle sitting here for a week waiting for parts to
> arrive, and as it was handed back to it's delighted owner yesterday
> after I repaired it I thought I'd follow up and share the details.
>

<snip a nothing "job">

Do you want a medal for an hours "work"?
Instead of posting extreme details of some mundane shit which wouldn't
even rate in a mechanics day, how about posting the only thing that
matters - that being proof of your qualifications to actually give you
some credibility?

No?

--
keith on the 7 Oct 2021 wrote;
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if
it is unproven, he is lying."

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

<jc1h4mF17doU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=13822&group=aus.cars#13822

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:50:44 +1000
Lines: 85
Message-ID: <jc1h4mF17doU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <t3g0ds$hna$1@dont-email.me>
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In-Reply-To: <t3g0ds$hna$1@dont-email.me>
 by: Daryl - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 03:50 UTC

On 17/4/2022 1:09 pm, Noddy wrote:
> All,
>
> Some might recall a couple of weeks ago where I mentioned that a
> friend's Dad had a Mazda 6 with dead power steering that a Mazda dealer
> had quoted almost 4 grand to repair as it needed a new ECU. Well, those
> details weren't 100% accurate, but they weren't far from the mark :)
>
> I've had the vehicle sitting here for a week waiting for parts to
> arrive, and as it was handed back to it's delighted owner yesterday
> after I repaired it I thought I'd follow up and share the details.
>
> The car in question is a 2009 Mazda 6 sedan, and it's problem was non
> functioning power steering. These cars have a complicated power steering
> system whereby it's fully electric with a motor in the steering rack
> itself, and it works by driving the rack through a worm gear. To provide
> steering assistance the motor simply spins left or right to act on the
> worm gear and move the rack.
>
> However, to accomplish that reliably and provide the right amount of
> assistance for the conditions the motor obviously needs to be variable,
> and it needs to be controlled according to things like vehicle speed,
> engine RPM and the amount of torque applied to the steering column. To
> that end is has sensors monitoring all of these variables, and the
> output of all those sensors is fed into a controller that connects to
> the steering column itself.
>
> How in the blue fuck Mazda thought this was a better way to do things
> than a plain old hydraulic system or even electric hydraulic is beyond
> me, but apparently they do and in doing so opened up a world of failure
> points.
>
> Anyway, the problem with this car was that the power steering controller
> decided that it didn't want to play anymore and it needed to be
> replaced. This is the steering controller here:
>
>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSW
>
> It's a small metal box with enough electronic smarts inside it to
> qualify as a 1980's EGA video card, and it lives bolted to the firewall
> in the engine bay underneath the battery.
>
> The car was taken to the nearest Mazda dealer to the owner's house where
> they charged 136 bucks for the privilege of plugging their code scanner
> into the car and have it tell them what was wrong with it. From this
> they deduced that it needs a new controller, and quoted $3589 to supply
> and fit one, with a "re-assess" required to see if that cured the
> problem :)
>
> Here's the quote:
>
>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSY
>
> Of course the owner wasn't going to pay such a ridiculous repair bill on
> a car that is probably worth not much more than that, so he bought it to
> me.
>
> I checked it out, confirmed that the power steering controller was
> indeed not giving any output signals, and ordered a second hand
> replacement controller from a wrecker in NSW where it was delivered to
> me for 170 bucks.
>
> The offending controller on the left, and the used replacement on the
> right:
>
>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSX
>
> Takes around an hour to fit, and once hooked up needs to be coded to the
> car to make it work. Once I did that it was simply a matter of setting
> the travel limits by applying full steering lock in one direction and
> then the other and Bob's your uncle. The car was back to normal, driving
> well and the owner was over the moon at his total out of pocket expenses
> being the 170 bucks for the replacement controller as I didn't charge
> them anything for my time.
>
> Job done.

Well done.
I suspect that dealers aren't allowed to help out their customers by
fitting SH parts?
Next time you are looking for something to do you could open up the old
controller, I wouldn't be surprised if the fault is just a bad solder joint.

--
Daryl

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

<jc1hbgF180dU1@mid.individual.net>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=13823&group=aus.cars#13823

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From: tre...@rageaudio.com.au (Trevor Wilson)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 13:54:25 +1000
Lines: 81
Message-ID: <jc1hbgF180dU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <t3g0ds$hna$1@dont-email.me>
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In-Reply-To: <t3g0ds$hna$1@dont-email.me>
 by: Trevor Wilson - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 03:54 UTC

On 17/04/2022 1:09 pm, Noddy wrote:
> All,
>
> Some might recall a couple of weeks ago where I mentioned that a
> friend's Dad had a Mazda 6 with dead power steering that a Mazda dealer
> had quoted almost 4 grand to repair as it needed a new ECU. Well, those
> details weren't 100% accurate, but they weren't far from the mark :)
>
> I've had the vehicle sitting here for a week waiting for parts to
> arrive, and as it was handed back to it's delighted owner yesterday
> after I repaired it I thought I'd follow up and share the details.
>
> The car in question is a 2009 Mazda 6 sedan, and it's problem was non
> functioning power steering. These cars have a complicated power steering
> system whereby it's fully electric with a motor in the steering rack
> itself, and it works by driving the rack through a worm gear. To provide
> steering assistance the motor simply spins left or right to act on the
> worm gear and move the rack.
>
> However, to accomplish that reliably and provide the right amount of
> assistance for the conditions the motor obviously needs to be variable,
> and it needs to be controlled according to things like vehicle speed,
> engine RPM and the amount of torque applied to the steering column. To
> that end is has sensors monitoring all of these variables, and the
> output of all those sensors is fed into a controller that connects to
> the steering column itself.
>
> How in the blue fuck Mazda thought this was a better way to do things
> than a plain old hydraulic system or even electric hydraulic is beyond
> me, but apparently they do and in doing so opened up a world of failure
> points.
>
> Anyway, the problem with this car was that the power steering controller
> decided that it didn't want to play anymore and it needed to be
> replaced. This is the steering controller here:
>
>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSW
>
> It's a small metal box with enough electronic smarts inside it to
> qualify as a 1980's EGA video card, and it lives bolted to the firewall
> in the engine bay underneath the battery.
>
> The car was taken to the nearest Mazda dealer to the owner's house where
> they charged 136 bucks for the privilege of plugging their code scanner
> into the car and have it tell them what was wrong with it. From this
> they deduced that it needs a new controller, and quoted $3589 to supply
> and fit one, with a "re-assess" required to see if that cured the
> problem :)
>
> Here's the quote:
>
>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSY
>
> Of course the owner wasn't going to pay such a ridiculous repair bill on
> a car that is probably worth not much more than that, so he bought it to
> me.
>
> I checked it out, confirmed that the power steering controller was
> indeed not giving any output signals, and ordered a second hand
> replacement controller from a wrecker in NSW where it was delivered to
> me for 170 bucks.
>
> The offending controller on the left, and the used replacement on the
> right:
>
>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSX
>
> Takes around an hour to fit, and once hooked up needs to be coded to the
> car to make it work. Once I did that it was simply a matter of setting
> the travel limits by applying full steering lock in one direction and
> then the other and Bob's your uncle. The car was back to normal, driving
> well and the owner was over the moon at his total out of pocket expenses
> being the 170 bucks for the replacement controller as I didn't charge
> them anything for my time.
>
> Job done.

**Well done. I'd like to see a couple of internal photos of the
controller, if possible. I betcha the fault is as simple as electrolytic
capacitor replacement. Mind you: That would likely cost as much the
second hand controller you found.

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

<t3g65q$eb7$1@dont-email.me>

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From: notgo...@happen.com (Clocky)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 12:47:48 +0800
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 99
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 by: Clocky - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 04:47 UTC

On 17/04/2022 11:54 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 17/04/2022 1:09 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> Some might recall a couple of weeks ago where I mentioned that a
>> friend's Dad had a Mazda 6 with dead power steering that a Mazda
>> dealer had quoted almost 4 grand to repair as it needed a new ECU.
>> Well, those details weren't 100% accurate, but they weren't far from
>> the mark :)
>>
>> I've had the vehicle sitting here for a week waiting for parts to
>> arrive, and as it was handed back to it's delighted owner yesterday
>> after I repaired it I thought I'd follow up and share the details.
>>
>> The car in question is a 2009 Mazda 6 sedan, and it's problem was non
>> functioning power steering. These cars have a complicated power
>> steering system whereby it's fully electric with a motor in the
>> steering rack itself, and it works by driving the rack through a worm
>> gear. To provide steering assistance the motor simply spins left or
>> right to act on the worm gear and move the rack.
>>
>> However, to accomplish that reliably and provide the right amount of
>> assistance for the conditions the motor obviously needs to be
>> variable, and it needs to be controlled according to things like
>> vehicle speed, engine RPM and the amount of torque applied to the
>> steering column. To that end is has sensors monitoring all of these
>> variables, and the output of all those sensors is fed into a
>> controller that connects to the steering column itself.
>>
>> How in the blue fuck Mazda thought this was a better way to do things
>> than a plain old hydraulic system or even electric hydraulic is beyond
>> me, but apparently they do and in doing so opened up a world of
>> failure points.
>>
>> Anyway, the problem with this car was that the power steering
>> controller decided that it didn't want to play anymore and it needed
>> to be replaced. This is the steering controller here:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSW
>>
>> It's a small metal box with enough electronic smarts inside it to
>> qualify as a 1980's EGA video card, and it lives bolted to the
>> firewall in the engine bay underneath the battery.
>>
>> The car was taken to the nearest Mazda dealer to the owner's house
>> where they charged 136 bucks for the privilege of plugging their code
>> scanner into the car and have it tell them what was wrong with it.
>> From this they deduced that it needs a new controller, and quoted
>> $3589 to supply and fit one, with a "re-assess" required to see if
>> that cured the problem :)
>>
>> Here's the quote:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSY
>>
>> Of course the owner wasn't going to pay such a ridiculous repair bill
>> on a car that is probably worth not much more than that, so he bought
>> it to me.
>>
>> I checked it out, confirmed that the power steering controller was
>> indeed not giving any output signals, and ordered a second hand
>> replacement controller from a wrecker in NSW where it was delivered to
>> me for 170 bucks.
>>
>> The offending controller on the left, and the used replacement on the
>> right:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSX
>>
>> Takes around an hour to fit, and once hooked up needs to be coded to
>> the car to make it work. Once I did that it was simply a matter of
>> setting the travel limits by applying full steering lock in one
>> direction and then the other and Bob's your uncle. The car was back to
>> normal, driving well and the owner was over the moon at his total out
>> of pocket expenses being the 170 bucks for the replacement controller
>> as I didn't charge them anything for my time.
>>
>> Job done.
>
> **Well done. I'd like to see a couple of internal photos of the
> controller, if possible. I betcha the fault is as simple as electrolytic
> capacitor replacement.

Possibly or a blown MOSFET.

Mind you: That would likely cost as much the
> second hand controller you found.

The trouble with replacing it with a second hand one is that they are
notorious for failing so that replacements might last 2 days or 2 years
or longer, who knows. If it is just bad caps causing the failures
replacing them would be better than simply swapping it out with a second
hand unit only to have it fail again.

--
keith on the 7 Oct 2021 wrote;
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if
it is unproven, he is lying."

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

<t3g6qr$h9m$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=13834&group=aus.cars#13834

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From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 14:59:04 +1000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <t3g6qr$h9m$1@dont-email.me>
References: <t3g0ds$hna$1@dont-email.me> <jc1h4mF17doU1@mid.individual.net>
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 by: Noddy - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 04:59 UTC

On 17/04/2022 1:50 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 17/4/2022 1:09 pm, Noddy wrote:

>> Takes around an hour to fit, and once hooked up needs to be coded to
>> the car to make it work. Once I did that it was simply a matter of
>> setting the travel limits by applying full steering lock in one
>> direction and then the other and Bob's your uncle. The car was back to
>> normal, driving well and the owner was over the moon at his total out
>> of pocket expenses being the 170 bucks for the replacement controller
>> as I didn't charge them anything for my time.
>>
>> Job done.
>
> Well done.
> I suspect that dealers aren't allowed to help out their customers by
> fitting SH parts?

No idea. It did say on the quote that a price for a second hand unit
wasn't available as the "wreckers were closed", but I would suspect that
was bullshit as any dealership would normally be operating during the
same working hours. I would think the real truth is that the stood to
make far more money on selling the owner a new ECU.

> Next time you are looking for something to do you could open up the old
> controller, I wouldn't be surprised if the fault is just a bad solder
> joint.
Very possibly.

Given that I wasn't changing them anything to do the job I didn't want
to spend too much time fucking around with it, but I might open it up
just to have a look. I did go as far as calling Injectroinics to see if
they were familiar with the things and had a change over but they'd
never done one before. They would have been happy to have a crack at
this one, but given that prices start at 160 bucks just to open it up
and have a look plus the fact of possibly needing the other sensors off
the car to excite the thing and make it work it was easier and cheaper
just to opt for the second hand unit and hope it never occurs again.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

<t3g75b$j51$1@dont-email.me>

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From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 15:04:41 +1000
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 by: Noddy - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 05:04 UTC

On 17/04/2022 1:54 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 17/04/2022 1:09 pm, Noddy wrote:

>> Takes around an hour to fit, and once hooked up needs to be coded to
>> the car to make it work. Once I did that it was simply a matter of
>> setting the travel limits by applying full steering lock in one
>> direction and then the other and Bob's your uncle. The car was back to
>> normal, driving well and the owner was over the moon at his total out
>> of pocket expenses being the 170 bucks for the replacement controller
>> as I didn't charge them anything for my time.
>>
>> Job done.
>
> **Well done. I'd like to see a couple of internal photos of the
> controller, if possible. I betcha the fault is as simple as electrolytic
> capacitor replacement. Mind you: That would likely cost as much the
> second hand controller you found.

I'll get it out of the scrap bin and open it up for some pics this
afternoon Trev. I never looked inside the thing but just assumed it had
about 30 bucks worth of radio shack parts in it like most automotive
electronics.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

<jc1lqbF21liU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: tre...@rageaudio.com.au (Trevor Wilson)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 15:10:34 +1000
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 by: Trevor Wilson - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 05:10 UTC

On 17/04/2022 3:04 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 17/04/2022 1:54 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 17/04/2022 1:09 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> Takes around an hour to fit, and once hooked up needs to be coded to
>>> the car to make it work. Once I did that it was simply a matter of
>>> setting the travel limits by applying full steering lock in one
>>> direction and then the other and Bob's your uncle. The car was back
>>> to normal, driving well and the owner was over the moon at his total
>>> out of pocket expenses being the 170 bucks for the replacement
>>> controller as I didn't charge them anything for my time.
>>>
>>> Job done.
>>
>> **Well done. I'd like to see a couple of internal photos of the
>> controller, if possible. I betcha the fault is as simple as
>> electrolytic capacitor replacement. Mind you: That would likely cost
>> as much the second hand controller you found.
>
> I'll get it out of the scrap bin and open it up for some pics this
> afternoon Trev. I never looked inside the thing but just assumed it had
> about 30 bucks worth of radio shack parts in it like most automotive
> electronics.
>
>

**I doubt that. Automotive electronics is actually, usually, well built
to withstand quite difficult conditions. Certainly far more challenging
that a laptop for instance. Component choice usually involves fitting
premium quality parts in critical areas, conformal coating on PCBs and
fibre-glass PCBs. These comments do not extend to car stereos, but they
are generally more robust than domestic stuff too. The die-cast box and
connectors would eat up most of your $30.00 budget. My best guess is
that, at the time of manufacture, the cost of the box would be more like
$200.00.

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

<jc1lthF21liU2@mid.individual.net>

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From: tre...@rageaudio.com.au (Trevor Wilson)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 15:12:18 +1000
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 by: Trevor Wilson - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 05:12 UTC

On 17/04/2022 2:47 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 17/04/2022 11:54 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 17/04/2022 1:09 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>> All,
>>>
>>> Some might recall a couple of weeks ago where I mentioned that a
>>> friend's Dad had a Mazda 6 with dead power steering that a Mazda
>>> dealer had quoted almost 4 grand to repair as it needed a new ECU.
>>> Well, those details weren't 100% accurate, but they weren't far from
>>> the mark :)
>>>
>>> I've had the vehicle sitting here for a week waiting for parts to
>>> arrive, and as it was handed back to it's delighted owner yesterday
>>> after I repaired it I thought I'd follow up and share the details.
>>>
>>> The car in question is a 2009 Mazda 6 sedan, and it's problem was non
>>> functioning power steering. These cars have a complicated power
>>> steering system whereby it's fully electric with a motor in the
>>> steering rack itself, and it works by driving the rack through a worm
>>> gear. To provide steering assistance the motor simply spins left or
>>> right to act on the worm gear and move the rack.
>>>
>>> However, to accomplish that reliably and provide the right amount of
>>> assistance for the conditions the motor obviously needs to be
>>> variable, and it needs to be controlled according to things like
>>> vehicle speed, engine RPM and the amount of torque applied to the
>>> steering column. To that end is has sensors monitoring all of these
>>> variables, and the output of all those sensors is fed into a
>>> controller that connects to the steering column itself.
>>>
>>> How in the blue fuck Mazda thought this was a better way to do things
>>> than a plain old hydraulic system or even electric hydraulic is
>>> beyond me, but apparently they do and in doing so opened up a world
>>> of failure points.
>>>
>>> Anyway, the problem with this car was that the power steering
>>> controller decided that it didn't want to play anymore and it needed
>>> to be replaced. This is the steering controller here:
>>>
>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSW
>>>
>>> It's a small metal box with enough electronic smarts inside it to
>>> qualify as a 1980's EGA video card, and it lives bolted to the
>>> firewall in the engine bay underneath the battery.
>>>
>>> The car was taken to the nearest Mazda dealer to the owner's house
>>> where they charged 136 bucks for the privilege of plugging their code
>>> scanner into the car and have it tell them what was wrong with it.
>>> From this they deduced that it needs a new controller, and quoted
>>> $3589 to supply and fit one, with a "re-assess" required to see if
>>> that cured the problem :)
>>>
>>> Here's the quote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSY
>>>
>>> Of course the owner wasn't going to pay such a ridiculous repair bill
>>> on a car that is probably worth not much more than that, so he bought
>>> it to me.
>>>
>>> I checked it out, confirmed that the power steering controller was
>>> indeed not giving any output signals, and ordered a second hand
>>> replacement controller from a wrecker in NSW where it was delivered
>>> to me for 170 bucks.
>>>
>>> The offending controller on the left, and the used replacement on the
>>> right:
>>>
>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSX
>>>
>>> Takes around an hour to fit, and once hooked up needs to be coded to
>>> the car to make it work. Once I did that it was simply a matter of
>>> setting the travel limits by applying full steering lock in one
>>> direction and then the other and Bob's your uncle. The car was back
>>> to normal, driving well and the owner was over the moon at his total
>>> out of pocket expenses being the 170 bucks for the replacement
>>> controller as I didn't charge them anything for my time.
>>>
>>> Job done.
>>
>> **Well done. I'd like to see a couple of internal photos of the
>> controller, if possible. I betcha the fault is as simple as
>> electrolytic capacitor replacement.
>
> Possibly or a blown MOSFET.

**Maybe, but MOSFET failures are quite rare, as, even back when the
thing was built, cheap, high current MOSFETs were plentiful.

>
>  Mind you: That would likely cost as much the
>> second hand controller you found.
>
> The trouble with replacing it with a second hand one is that they are
> notorious for failing so that replacements might last 2 days or 2 years
> or longer, who knows. If it is just bad caps causing the failures
> replacing them would be better than simply swapping it out with a second
> hand unit only to have it fail again.

**Of course.

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

<jc1og1F2gvhU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 15:56:15 +1000
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 by: Daryl - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 05:56 UTC

On 17/4/2022 2:59 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 17/04/2022 1:50 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 17/4/2022 1:09 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> Takes around an hour to fit, and once hooked up needs to be coded to
>>> the car to make it work. Once I did that it was simply a matter of
>>> setting the travel limits by applying full steering lock in one
>>> direction and then the other and Bob's your uncle. The car was back
>>> to normal, driving well and the owner was over the moon at his total
>>> out of pocket expenses being the 170 bucks for the replacement
>>> controller as I didn't charge them anything for my time.
>>>
>>> Job done.
>>
>> Well done.
>> I suspect that dealers aren't allowed to help out their customers by
>> fitting SH parts?
>
> No idea. It did say on the quote that a price for a second hand unit
> wasn't available as the "wreckers were closed", but I would suspect that
> was bullshit as any dealership would normally be operating during the
> same working hours. I would think the real truth is that the stood to
> make far more money on selling the owner a new ECU.
>
>
>> Next time you are looking for something to do you could open up the
>> old controller, I wouldn't be surprised if the fault is just a bad
>> solder joint.
> Very possibly.
>
> Given that I wasn't changing them anything to do the job I didn't want
> to spend too much time fucking around with it, but I might open it up
> just to have a look. I did go as far as calling Injectroinics to see if
> they were familiar with the things and had a change over but they'd
> never done one before. They would have been happy to have a crack at
> this one, but given that prices start at 160 bucks just to open it up
> and have a look plus the fact of possibly needing the other sensors off
> the car to excite the thing and make it work it was easier and cheaper
> just to opt for the second hand unit and hope it never occurs again.
>
>

A friend who lives in Gisborne owns a MB Vito van, a few weeks ago he
went to start it and it was dead, he checked all the basics like the
battery and key battery but still dead, some lights would work but the
dash didn't light up and it wouldn't crank.
He's an electronics engineer so he did some research and ended up
suspecting the "SAM" unit which is MB name for the communications module.
Pulled it out and found lots of bad solder joints, repaired and refitted
and the van fired up straight away, needless to say he was pretty pissed
of because it cost him roughly 4days work finding and fixing it but at
least he didn't have to spend mega bucks on new or sh parts.

--
Daryl

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

<jc1pd2F2lnvU1@mid.individual.net>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=13846&group=aus.cars#13846

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:11:44 +1000
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In-Reply-To: <jc1lthF21liU2@mid.individual.net>
 by: Daryl - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 06:11 UTC

On 17/4/2022 3:12 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 17/04/2022 2:47 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 17/04/2022 11:54 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 17/04/2022 1:09 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> Some might recall a couple of weeks ago where I mentioned that a
>>>> friend's Dad had a Mazda 6 with dead power steering that a Mazda
>>>> dealer had quoted almost 4 grand to repair as it needed a new ECU.
>>>> Well, those details weren't 100% accurate, but they weren't far from
>>>> the mark :)
>>>>
>>>> I've had the vehicle sitting here for a week waiting for parts to
>>>> arrive, and as it was handed back to it's delighted owner yesterday
>>>> after I repaired it I thought I'd follow up and share the details.
>>>>
>>>> The car in question is a 2009 Mazda 6 sedan, and it's problem was
>>>> non functioning power steering. These cars have a complicated power
>>>> steering system whereby it's fully electric with a motor in the
>>>> steering rack itself, and it works by driving the rack through a
>>>> worm gear. To provide steering assistance the motor simply spins
>>>> left or right to act on the worm gear and move the rack.
>>>>
>>>> However, to accomplish that reliably and provide the right amount of
>>>> assistance for the conditions the motor obviously needs to be
>>>> variable, and it needs to be controlled according to things like
>>>> vehicle speed, engine RPM and the amount of torque applied to the
>>>> steering column. To that end is has sensors monitoring all of these
>>>> variables, and the output of all those sensors is fed into a
>>>> controller that connects to the steering column itself.
>>>>
>>>> How in the blue fuck Mazda thought this was a better way to do
>>>> things than a plain old hydraulic system or even electric hydraulic
>>>> is beyond me, but apparently they do and in doing so opened up a
>>>> world of failure points.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, the problem with this car was that the power steering
>>>> controller decided that it didn't want to play anymore and it needed
>>>> to be replaced. This is the steering controller here:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSW
>>>>
>>>> It's a small metal box with enough electronic smarts inside it to
>>>> qualify as a 1980's EGA video card, and it lives bolted to the
>>>> firewall in the engine bay underneath the battery.
>>>>
>>>> The car was taken to the nearest Mazda dealer to the owner's house
>>>> where they charged 136 bucks for the privilege of plugging their
>>>> code scanner into the car and have it tell them what was wrong with
>>>> it. From this they deduced that it needs a new controller, and
>>>> quoted $3589 to supply and fit one, with a "re-assess" required to
>>>> see if that cured the problem :)
>>>>
>>>> Here's the quote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSY
>>>>
>>>> Of course the owner wasn't going to pay such a ridiculous repair
>>>> bill on a car that is probably worth not much more than that, so he
>>>> bought it to me.
>>>>
>>>> I checked it out, confirmed that the power steering controller was
>>>> indeed not giving any output signals, and ordered a second hand
>>>> replacement controller from a wrecker in NSW where it was delivered
>>>> to me for 170 bucks.
>>>>
>>>> The offending controller on the left, and the used replacement on
>>>> the right:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSX
>>>>
>>>> Takes around an hour to fit, and once hooked up needs to be coded to
>>>> the car to make it work. Once I did that it was simply a matter of
>>>> setting the travel limits by applying full steering lock in one
>>>> direction and then the other and Bob's your uncle. The car was back
>>>> to normal, driving well and the owner was over the moon at his total
>>>> out of pocket expenses being the 170 bucks for the replacement
>>>> controller as I didn't charge them anything for my time.
>>>>
>>>> Job done.
>>>
>>> **Well done. I'd like to see a couple of internal photos of the
>>> controller, if possible. I betcha the fault is as simple as
>>> electrolytic capacitor replacement.
>>
>> Possibly or a blown MOSFET.
>
> **Maybe, but MOSFET failures are quite rare, as, even back when the
> thing was built, cheap, high current MOSFETs were plentiful.
>
>>
>>   Mind you: That would likely cost as much the
>>> second hand controller you found.
>>
>> The trouble with replacing it with a second hand one is that they are
>> notorious for failing so that replacements might last 2 days or 2
>> years or longer, who knows. If it is just bad caps causing the
>> failures replacing them would be better than simply swapping it out
>> with a second hand unit only to have it fail again.
>
> **Of course.

For the cost of the sh unit compared to a new one its well worth the gamble.

--
Daryl

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

<jc1qmqF2rp6U2@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=13849&group=aus.cars#13849

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: tre...@rageaudio.com.au (Trevor Wilson)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 16:34:03 +1000
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In-Reply-To: <jc1pd2F2lnvU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Trevor Wilson - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 06:34 UTC

On 17/04/2022 4:11 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 17/4/2022 3:12 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 17/04/2022 2:47 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 17/04/2022 11:54 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 17/04/2022 1:09 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>> All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Some might recall a couple of weeks ago where I mentioned that a
>>>>> friend's Dad had a Mazda 6 with dead power steering that a Mazda
>>>>> dealer had quoted almost 4 grand to repair as it needed a new ECU.
>>>>> Well, those details weren't 100% accurate, but they weren't far
>>>>> from the mark :)
>>>>>
>>>>> I've had the vehicle sitting here for a week waiting for parts to
>>>>> arrive, and as it was handed back to it's delighted owner yesterday
>>>>> after I repaired it I thought I'd follow up and share the details.
>>>>>
>>>>> The car in question is a 2009 Mazda 6 sedan, and it's problem was
>>>>> non functioning power steering. These cars have a complicated power
>>>>> steering system whereby it's fully electric with a motor in the
>>>>> steering rack itself, and it works by driving the rack through a
>>>>> worm gear. To provide steering assistance the motor simply spins
>>>>> left or right to act on the worm gear and move the rack.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, to accomplish that reliably and provide the right amount
>>>>> of assistance for the conditions the motor obviously needs to be
>>>>> variable, and it needs to be controlled according to things like
>>>>> vehicle speed, engine RPM and the amount of torque applied to the
>>>>> steering column. To that end is has sensors monitoring all of these
>>>>> variables, and the output of all those sensors is fed into a
>>>>> controller that connects to the steering column itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> How in the blue fuck Mazda thought this was a better way to do
>>>>> things than a plain old hydraulic system or even electric hydraulic
>>>>> is beyond me, but apparently they do and in doing so opened up a
>>>>> world of failure points.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, the problem with this car was that the power steering
>>>>> controller decided that it didn't want to play anymore and it
>>>>> needed to be replaced. This is the steering controller here:
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSW
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a small metal box with enough electronic smarts inside it to
>>>>> qualify as a 1980's EGA video card, and it lives bolted to the
>>>>> firewall in the engine bay underneath the battery.
>>>>>
>>>>> The car was taken to the nearest Mazda dealer to the owner's house
>>>>> where they charged 136 bucks for the privilege of plugging their
>>>>> code scanner into the car and have it tell them what was wrong with
>>>>> it. From this they deduced that it needs a new controller, and
>>>>> quoted $3589 to supply and fit one, with a "re-assess" required to
>>>>> see if that cured the problem :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's the quote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSY
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course the owner wasn't going to pay such a ridiculous repair
>>>>> bill on a car that is probably worth not much more than that, so he
>>>>> bought it to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> I checked it out, confirmed that the power steering controller was
>>>>> indeed not giving any output signals, and ordered a second hand
>>>>> replacement controller from a wrecker in NSW where it was delivered
>>>>> to me for 170 bucks.
>>>>>
>>>>> The offending controller on the left, and the used replacement on
>>>>> the right:
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSX
>>>>>
>>>>> Takes around an hour to fit, and once hooked up needs to be coded
>>>>> to the car to make it work. Once I did that it was simply a matter
>>>>> of setting the travel limits by applying full steering lock in one
>>>>> direction and then the other and Bob's your uncle. The car was back
>>>>> to normal, driving well and the owner was over the moon at his
>>>>> total out of pocket expenses being the 170 bucks for the
>>>>> replacement controller as I didn't charge them anything for my time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Job done.
>>>>
>>>> **Well done. I'd like to see a couple of internal photos of the
>>>> controller, if possible. I betcha the fault is as simple as
>>>> electrolytic capacitor replacement.
>>>
>>> Possibly or a blown MOSFET.
>>
>> **Maybe, but MOSFET failures are quite rare, as, even back when the
>> thing was built, cheap, high current MOSFETs were plentiful.
>>
>>>
>>>   Mind you: That would likely cost as much the
>>>> second hand controller you found.
>>>
>>> The trouble with replacing it with a second hand one is that they are
>>> notorious for failing so that replacements might last 2 days or 2
>>> years or longer, who knows. If it is just bad caps causing the
>>> failures replacing them would be better than simply swapping it out
>>> with a second hand unit only to have it fail again.
>>
>> **Of course.
>
>
> For the cost of the sh unit compared to a new one its well worth the
> gamble.
>
>

**Depends on you POV. I am part of a dying breed - a component level
repair guy. I NEVER replace entire modules, unless there is no
alternative (like no schematics, or specific spare parts). I replace
faulty components where possible. It is almost always the most
economical, best practice option. There are very few of us left.

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

<t3gj74$la7$1@dont-email.me>

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From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 18:30:25 +1000
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 by: Noddy - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 08:30 UTC

On 17/04/2022 3:56 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 17/4/2022 2:59 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 17/04/2022 1:50 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 17/4/2022 1:09 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>>> Takes around an hour to fit, and once hooked up needs to be coded to
>>>> the car to make it work. Once I did that it was simply a matter of
>>>> setting the travel limits by applying full steering lock in one
>>>> direction and then the other and Bob's your uncle. The car was back
>>>> to normal, driving well and the owner was over the moon at his total
>>>> out of pocket expenses being the 170 bucks for the replacement
>>>> controller as I didn't charge them anything for my time.
>>>>
>>>> Job done.
>>>
>>> Well done.
>>> I suspect that dealers aren't allowed to help out their customers by
>>> fitting SH parts?
>>
>> No idea. It did say on the quote that a price for a second hand unit
>> wasn't available as the "wreckers were closed", but I would suspect
>> that was bullshit as any dealership would normally be operating during
>> the same working hours. I would think the real truth is that the stood
>> to make far more money on selling the owner a new ECU.
>>
>>
>>> Next time you are looking for something to do you could open up the
>>> old controller, I wouldn't be surprised if the fault is just a bad
>>> solder joint.
>> Very possibly.
>>
>> Given that I wasn't changing them anything to do the job I didn't want
>> to spend too much time fucking around with it, but I might open it up
>> just to have a look. I did go as far as calling Injectroinics to see
>> if they were familiar with the things and had a change over but they'd
>> never done one before. They would have been happy to have a crack at
>> this one, but given that prices start at 160 bucks just to open it up
>> and have a look plus the fact of possibly needing the other sensors
>> off the car to excite the thing and make it work it was easier and
>> cheaper just to opt for the second hand unit and hope it never occurs
>> again.
>>
>>
>
> A friend who lives in Gisborne owns a MB Vito van, a few weeks ago he
> went to start it and it was dead, he checked all the basics like the
> battery and key battery but still dead, some lights would work but the
> dash didn't light up and it wouldn't crank.
> He's an electronics engineer so he did some research and ended up
> suspecting the "SAM" unit which is MB name for the communications module.
> Pulled it out and found lots of bad solder joints, repaired and refitted
> and the van fired up straight away, needless to say he was pretty pissed
> of because it cost him roughly 4days work finding and fixing it but at
> least he didn't have to spend mega bucks on new or sh parts.

It's getting pathetic to be honest. Some people like to claim that cars
are more reliable today than they ever have been, but I reject that
call. They're certainly more elaborate, are far more capable, more
economical and are far better equipped, but in terms of reliability I
don't think they're any better than the shit from 40 years ago. In fact
I think they're far more brittle today in that they can be rendered
completely useless for the most insignificant of things.

Speaking of cars, I didn't end up buying the car from the bloke we met
the other day. It's a decent car that could be nice as it has a good
factory options but it's not a factory 4 speed car as he thinks it is:

> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9F40L

It's a genuine GT and has been sitting in that spot for the last 28
years, so a bit of a barn find. It's mostly complete, but had been
stolen and recovered 3 times in it's past life and a lot of parts robbed
from it in the process. It's a factory T bar auto car that certainly has
potential and would make a good cruiser, and I've offered him 65 grand
and left him to think about it. He seems firm on wanting 80, and in it's
current state I think he'll have to wait to get it.

Still, the market is stupid crazy at the moment.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

<jc26nsF521rU2@mid.individual.net>

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From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 19:59:23 +1000
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 by: Xeno - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 09:59 UTC

On 17/4/2022 3:04 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 17/04/2022 1:54 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 17/04/2022 1:09 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> Takes around an hour to fit, and once hooked up needs to be coded to
>>> the car to make it work. Once I did that it was simply a matter of
>>> setting the travel limits by applying full steering lock in one
>>> direction and then the other and Bob's your uncle. The car was back
>>> to normal, driving well and the owner was over the moon at his total
>>> out of pocket expenses being the 170 bucks for the replacement
>>> controller as I didn't charge them anything for my time.
>>>
>>> Job done.
>>
>> **Well done. I'd like to see a couple of internal photos of the
>> controller, if possible. I betcha the fault is as simple as
>> electrolytic capacitor replacement. Mind you: That would likely cost
>> as much the second hand controller you found.
>
> I'll get it out of the scrap bin and open it up for some pics this
> afternoon Trev. I never looked inside the thing but just assumed it had
> about 30 bucks worth of radio shack parts in it like most automotive
> electronics.
>
>
Ahem, radio shack parts wouldn't survive in the automotive environment.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

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From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 20:22:49 +1000
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 by: Noddy - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 10:22 UTC

On 17/04/2022 3:10 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 17/04/2022 3:04 pm, Noddy wrote:

>>> **Well done. I'd like to see a couple of internal photos of the
>>> controller, if possible. I betcha the fault is as simple as
>>> electrolytic capacitor replacement. Mind you: That would likely cost
>>> as much the second hand controller you found.
>>
>> I'll get it out of the scrap bin and open it up for some pics this
>> afternoon Trev. I never looked inside the thing but just assumed it
>> had about 30 bucks worth of radio shack parts in it like most
>> automotive electronics.
>>
>>
>
> **I doubt that. Automotive electronics is actually, usually, well built
> to withstand quite difficult conditions. Certainly far more challenging
> that a laptop for instance. Component choice usually involves fitting
> premium quality parts in critical areas, conformal coating on PCBs and
> fibre-glass PCBs. These comments do not extend to car stereos, but they
> are generally more robust than domestic stuff too. The die-cast box and
> connectors would eat up most of your $30.00 budget.

Of course. "30 bucks worth of Radio Shack parts" was figure of speech,
but by and large automotive electronics are hideously over priced.

> My best guess is that, at the time of manufacture, the cost of the box would be more like
> $200.00.

Perhaps, but they are/were having these things made by the thousands by
the lowest priced bidder. 200 bucks would probably be at the outside,
and certainly nothing like the 3500 bucks Mazda want to sell you one :)

Incidentally, I took the cover off the power steering controller and it
looked like this:

> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9F5RT

There was another board under this one separated by the plastic sandwich
plate but it wouldn't come apart without desoldering it which I didn't
have the time or energy to do. The second board underneath was screwed
to the bottom half of the alloy box and had 3 big capacitors and half a
dozen mosfets on it that I could see.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

<t3gpt2$v29$2@dont-email.me>

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Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 20:24:34 +1000
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 by: Noddy - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 10:24 UTC

On 17/04/2022 3:12 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 17/04/2022 2:47 pm, Clocky wrote:

>> The trouble with replacing it with a second hand one is that they are
>> notorious for failing so that replacements might last 2 days or 2
>> years or longer, who knows. If it is just bad caps causing the
>> failures replacing them would be better than simply swapping it out
>> with a second hand unit only to have it fail again.
>
> **Of course.

This thing was not easily dismantled.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

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Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 20:25:48 +1000
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 by: Noddy - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 10:25 UTC

On 17/04/2022 4:11 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 17/4/2022 3:12 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:

>>> The trouble with replacing it with a second hand one is that they are
>>> notorious for failing so that replacements might last 2 days or 2
>>> years or longer, who knows. If it is just bad caps causing the
>>> failures replacing them would be better than simply swapping it out
>>> with a second hand unit only to have it fail again.
>>
>> **Of course.
>
>
> For the cost of the sh unit compared to a new one its well worth the
> gamble.

It is, and without a schematic and a reliable way of dismantling and
reassembling the thing you'd have a hard time of doing it right.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

<t3gq69$1ll$1@dont-email.me>

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From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
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 by: Noddy - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 10:29 UTC

On 17/04/2022 4:34 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 17/04/2022 4:11 pm, Daryl wrote:

>> For the cost of the sh unit compared to a new one its well worth the
>> gamble.
>>
>>
>
> **Depends on you POV. I am part of a dying breed - a component level
> repair guy. I NEVER replace entire modules, unless there is no
> alternative (like no schematics, or specific spare parts). I replace
> faulty components where possible. It is almost always the most
> economical, best practice option. There are very few of us left.

I tend to be the same, but for different reasons. Some of the stuff I
repair isn't done because the repair is cheaper, but because the
original item is period correct and the owner wishes to keep it.
Especially in the case of a lot of Ford engine parts which have date
codes cast into them which is what people want with original cars.

Often it's more expensive to do that than simply replace the part with a
commonly available modern item.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

<t3gv11$li$1@dont-email.me>

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From: notgo...@happen.com (Clocky)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 19:52:02 +0800
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 by: Clocky - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 11:52 UTC

On 17/04/2022 1:12 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 17/04/2022 2:47 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 17/04/2022 11:54 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 17/04/2022 1:09 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> Some might recall a couple of weeks ago where I mentioned that a
>>>> friend's Dad had a Mazda 6 with dead power steering that a Mazda
>>>> dealer had quoted almost 4 grand to repair as it needed a new ECU.
>>>> Well, those details weren't 100% accurate, but they weren't far from
>>>> the mark :)
>>>>
>>>> I've had the vehicle sitting here for a week waiting for parts to
>>>> arrive, and as it was handed back to it's delighted owner yesterday
>>>> after I repaired it I thought I'd follow up and share the details.
>>>>
>>>> The car in question is a 2009 Mazda 6 sedan, and it's problem was
>>>> non functioning power steering. These cars have a complicated power
>>>> steering system whereby it's fully electric with a motor in the
>>>> steering rack itself, and it works by driving the rack through a
>>>> worm gear. To provide steering assistance the motor simply spins
>>>> left or right to act on the worm gear and move the rack.
>>>>
>>>> However, to accomplish that reliably and provide the right amount of
>>>> assistance for the conditions the motor obviously needs to be
>>>> variable, and it needs to be controlled according to things like
>>>> vehicle speed, engine RPM and the amount of torque applied to the
>>>> steering column. To that end is has sensors monitoring all of these
>>>> variables, and the output of all those sensors is fed into a
>>>> controller that connects to the steering column itself.
>>>>
>>>> How in the blue fuck Mazda thought this was a better way to do
>>>> things than a plain old hydraulic system or even electric hydraulic
>>>> is beyond me, but apparently they do and in doing so opened up a
>>>> world of failure points.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, the problem with this car was that the power steering
>>>> controller decided that it didn't want to play anymore and it needed
>>>> to be replaced. This is the steering controller here:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSW
>>>>
>>>> It's a small metal box with enough electronic smarts inside it to
>>>> qualify as a 1980's EGA video card, and it lives bolted to the
>>>> firewall in the engine bay underneath the battery.
>>>>
>>>> The car was taken to the nearest Mazda dealer to the owner's house
>>>> where they charged 136 bucks for the privilege of plugging their
>>>> code scanner into the car and have it tell them what was wrong with
>>>> it. From this they deduced that it needs a new controller, and
>>>> quoted $3589 to supply and fit one, with a "re-assess" required to
>>>> see if that cured the problem :)
>>>>
>>>> Here's the quote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSY
>>>>
>>>> Of course the owner wasn't going to pay such a ridiculous repair
>>>> bill on a car that is probably worth not much more than that, so he
>>>> bought it to me.
>>>>
>>>> I checked it out, confirmed that the power steering controller was
>>>> indeed not giving any output signals, and ordered a second hand
>>>> replacement controller from a wrecker in NSW where it was delivered
>>>> to me for 170 bucks.
>>>>
>>>> The offending controller on the left, and the used replacement on
>>>> the right:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSX
>>>>
>>>> Takes around an hour to fit, and once hooked up needs to be coded to
>>>> the car to make it work. Once I did that it was simply a matter of
>>>> setting the travel limits by applying full steering lock in one
>>>> direction and then the other and Bob's your uncle. The car was back
>>>> to normal, driving well and the owner was over the moon at his total
>>>> out of pocket expenses being the 170 bucks for the replacement
>>>> controller as I didn't charge them anything for my time.
>>>>
>>>> Job done.
>>>
>>> **Well done. I'd like to see a couple of internal photos of the
>>> controller, if possible. I betcha the fault is as simple as
>>> electrolytic capacitor replacement.
>>
>> Possibly or a blown MOSFET.
>
> **Maybe, but MOSFET failures are quite rare, as, even back when the
> thing was built, cheap, high current MOSFETs were plentiful.
>

MOSFET failures in ECU's are one of the most common failures. They can
be a prick to repair as anyone who has ever done it on say an Astra ECU
will be well aware of as the MOSFET is bonded to the housing, gold
bonding wires connect it to the pins and it's encapsulated in a gel like
potting compound. Worse was that these MOSFET's had a high failure rate.
I don't however think the Mazda control module is constructed in that
manner and despite being newer is more generic old school SMT design
(with some electrolytic caps - some SMT, some not).

>>
>>   Mind you: That would likely cost as much the
>>> second hand controller you found.
>>
>> The trouble with replacing it with a second hand one is that they are
>> notorious for failing so that replacements might last 2 days or 2
>> years or longer, who knows. If it is just bad caps causing the
>> failures replacing them would be better than simply swapping it out
>> with a second hand unit only to have it fail again.
>
> **Of course.

--
keith on the 7 Oct 2021 wrote;
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if
it is unproven, he is lying."

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

<t3gvjk$4cr$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=13865&group=aus.cars#13865

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: notgo...@happen.com (Clocky)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 20:01:57 +0800
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 by: Clocky - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 12:01 UTC

On 17/04/2022 2:34 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 17/04/2022 4:11 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 17/4/2022 3:12 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 17/04/2022 2:47 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 17/04/2022 11:54 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On 17/04/2022 1:09 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some might recall a couple of weeks ago where I mentioned that a
>>>>>> friend's Dad had a Mazda 6 with dead power steering that a Mazda
>>>>>> dealer had quoted almost 4 grand to repair as it needed a new ECU.
>>>>>> Well, those details weren't 100% accurate, but they weren't far
>>>>>> from the mark :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've had the vehicle sitting here for a week waiting for parts to
>>>>>> arrive, and as it was handed back to it's delighted owner
>>>>>> yesterday after I repaired it I thought I'd follow up and share
>>>>>> the details.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The car in question is a 2009 Mazda 6 sedan, and it's problem was
>>>>>> non functioning power steering. These cars have a complicated
>>>>>> power steering system whereby it's fully electric with a motor in
>>>>>> the steering rack itself, and it works by driving the rack through
>>>>>> a worm gear. To provide steering assistance the motor simply spins
>>>>>> left or right to act on the worm gear and move the rack.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, to accomplish that reliably and provide the right amount
>>>>>> of assistance for the conditions the motor obviously needs to be
>>>>>> variable, and it needs to be controlled according to things like
>>>>>> vehicle speed, engine RPM and the amount of torque applied to the
>>>>>> steering column. To that end is has sensors monitoring all of
>>>>>> these variables, and the output of all those sensors is fed into a
>>>>>> controller that connects to the steering column itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How in the blue fuck Mazda thought this was a better way to do
>>>>>> things than a plain old hydraulic system or even electric
>>>>>> hydraulic is beyond me, but apparently they do and in doing so
>>>>>> opened up a world of failure points.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, the problem with this car was that the power steering
>>>>>> controller decided that it didn't want to play anymore and it
>>>>>> needed to be replaced. This is the steering controller here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSW
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a small metal box with enough electronic smarts inside it to
>>>>>> qualify as a 1980's EGA video card, and it lives bolted to the
>>>>>> firewall in the engine bay underneath the battery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The car was taken to the nearest Mazda dealer to the owner's house
>>>>>> where they charged 136 bucks for the privilege of plugging their
>>>>>> code scanner into the car and have it tell them what was wrong
>>>>>> with it. From this they deduced that it needs a new controller,
>>>>>> and quoted $3589 to supply and fit one, with a "re-assess"
>>>>>> required to see if that cured the problem :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's the quote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSY
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course the owner wasn't going to pay such a ridiculous repair
>>>>>> bill on a car that is probably worth not much more than that, so
>>>>>> he bought it to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I checked it out, confirmed that the power steering controller was
>>>>>> indeed not giving any output signals, and ordered a second hand
>>>>>> replacement controller from a wrecker in NSW where it was
>>>>>> delivered to me for 170 bucks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The offending controller on the left, and the used replacement on
>>>>>> the right:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME9EUSX
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Takes around an hour to fit, and once hooked up needs to be coded
>>>>>> to the car to make it work. Once I did that it was simply a matter
>>>>>> of setting the travel limits by applying full steering lock in one
>>>>>> direction and then the other and Bob's your uncle. The car was
>>>>>> back to normal, driving well and the owner was over the moon at
>>>>>> his total out of pocket expenses being the 170 bucks for the
>>>>>> replacement controller as I didn't charge them anything for my time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Job done.
>>>>>
>>>>> **Well done. I'd like to see a couple of internal photos of the
>>>>> controller, if possible. I betcha the fault is as simple as
>>>>> electrolytic capacitor replacement.
>>>>
>>>> Possibly or a blown MOSFET.
>>>
>>> **Maybe, but MOSFET failures are quite rare, as, even back when the
>>> thing was built, cheap, high current MOSFETs were plentiful.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Mind you: That would likely cost as much the
>>>>> second hand controller you found.
>>>>
>>>> The trouble with replacing it with a second hand one is that they
>>>> are notorious for failing so that replacements might last 2 days or
>>>> 2 years or longer, who knows. If it is just bad caps causing the
>>>> failures replacing them would be better than simply swapping it out
>>>> with a second hand unit only to have it fail again.
>>>
>>> **Of course.
>>
>>
>> For the cost of the sh unit compared to a new one its well worth the
>> gamble.
>>
>>
>
> **Depends on you POV. I am part of a dying breed - a component level
> repair guy. I NEVER replace entire modules, unless there is no
> alternative (like no schematics, or specific spare parts). I replace
> faulty components where possible. It is almost always the most
> economical, best practice option. There are very few of us left.

I'm the same. I was fixing ECU's when everyone was replacing them
because they didn't know what to look for or how to go about repairing
them. I paid my first house off in six years, customers saved money and
made them happy and it helped reduce E-waste.
Win-win-win :-)

--
keith on the 7 Oct 2021 wrote;
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if
it is unproven, he is lying."

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

<t3gvo0$4cr$2@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=13866&group=aus.cars#13866

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: notgo...@happen.com (Clocky)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 20:04:17 +0800
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 31
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 by: Clocky - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 12:04 UTC

On 17/04/2022 6:29 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 17/04/2022 4:34 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 17/04/2022 4:11 pm, Daryl wrote:
>
>>> For the cost of the sh unit compared to a new one its well worth the
>>> gamble.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> **Depends on you POV. I am part of a dying breed - a component level
>> repair guy. I NEVER replace entire modules, unless there is no
>> alternative (like no schematics, or specific spare parts). I replace
>> faulty components where possible. It is almost always the most
>> economical, best practice option. There are very few of us left.
>
> I tend to be the same, but for different reasons. Some of the stuff I
> repair isn't done because the repair is cheaper, but because the
> original item is period correct and the owner wishes to keep it.

And you're just a part swapper with zero understanding of
electrical/electronics because you never qualified as a mechanic.

#1 reason.

--
keith on the 7 Oct 2021 wrote;
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if
it is unproven, he is lying."

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

<jc2gcoF6tseU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=13867&group=aus.cars#13867

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 22:44:07 +1000
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 by: Xeno - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 12:44 UTC

On 17/4/2022 8:24 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 17/04/2022 3:12 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 17/04/2022 2:47 pm, Clocky wrote:
>
>>> The trouble with replacing it with a second hand one is that they are
>>> notorious for failing so that replacements might last 2 days or 2
>>> years or longer, who knows. If it is just bad caps causing the
>>> failures replacing them would be better than simply swapping it out
>>> with a second hand unit only to have it fail again.
>>
>> **Of course.
>
> This thing was not easily dismantled.
>
>
Deliberately so to keep all the Noddies sticky fingers out of there.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

<jc2ghgF6vh2U1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=13868&group=aus.cars#13868

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 22:46:38 +1000
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 by: Daryl - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 12:46 UTC

On 17/4/2022 4:34 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:

>>
>> For the cost of the sh unit compared to a new one its well worth the
>> gamble.
>>
>>
>
> **Depends on you POV. I am part of a dying breed - a component level
> repair guy. I NEVER replace entire modules, unless there is no
> alternative (like no schematics, or specific spare parts). I replace
> faulty components where possible. It is almost always the most
> economical, best practice option. There are very few of us left.

That is the problem, very few people are willing or able to repair such
things so mechanics have to choose between new or SH.
Cost is also a factor, if you have to pay a technician a couple of hours
labour to repair something the cost can get out of hand real fast.

--
Daryl

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

<jc2ghjF6tseU2@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=13869&group=aus.cars#13869

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From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 22:46:43 +1000
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 by: Xeno - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 12:46 UTC

On 17/4/2022 8:25 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 17/04/2022 4:11 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 17/4/2022 3:12 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>
>>>> The trouble with replacing it with a second hand one is that they
>>>> are notorious for failing so that replacements might last 2 days or
>>>> 2 years or longer, who knows. If it is just bad caps causing the
>>>> failures replacing them would be better than simply swapping it out
>>>> with a second hand unit only to have it fail again.
>>>
>>> **Of course.
>>
>>
>> For the cost of the sh unit compared to a new one its well worth the
>> gamble.
>
> It is, and without a schematic and a reliable way of dismantling and
> reassembling the thing you'd have a hard time of doing it right.
>
You forgot to mention proper training and an understanding of
electronics inc. digital electronics.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)

<jc2gtdF6tseU4@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=13872&group=aus.cars#13872

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From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: Mazda 6 Power Steering :)
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 22:53:01 +1000
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 by: Xeno - Sun, 17 Apr 2022 12:53 UTC

On 17/4/2022 10:04 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 17/04/2022 6:29 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 17/04/2022 4:34 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 17/04/2022 4:11 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>
>>>> For the cost of the sh unit compared to a new one its well worth the
>>>> gamble.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> **Depends on you POV. I am part of a dying breed - a component level
>>> repair guy. I NEVER replace entire modules, unless there is no
>>> alternative (like no schematics, or specific spare parts). I replace
>>> faulty components where possible. It is almost always the most
>>> economical, best practice option. There are very few of us left.
>>
>> I tend to be the same, but for different reasons. Some of the stuff I
>> repair isn't done because the repair is cheaper, but because the
>> original item is period correct and the owner wishes to keep it.
>
> And you're just a part swapper with zero understanding of
> electrical/electronics because you never qualified as a mechanic.
>
> #1 reason.
>
Most definitely!

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

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