A cyclist who got a close pass at speed from a driver says he is “happy” with the outcome after police investigated the incident, with the motorist having fined almost £400 after admitting driving without due care and attention – although some people commenting on social media have wondered why he was not charged with the more serious offence of dangerous driving.

The incident happened last November with road.cc reader Guy being the cyclist on the receiving end, and Avon & Somerset Police tweeted the outcome of the case, which saw the driver fined £384, ordered to pay £110 costs and a £34 victim surcharge, as well as having their driving licence endorsed with three penalty points after admitting driving without due care and attention.

Guy told us: “I do remember as I cycled up to the roundabout the car driver beeped his horn at me, so I was half-expecting something. I didn’t expect such an exceptionally close pass though.”

He continued: “What’s interesting from the Twitter thread is the views that the driver should have been charged with dangerous rather than careless driving.”

The latter is defined by law as being committed when the standard of driving “falls below the minimum standard expected of a competent and careful driver, and includes driving without reasonable consideration for other road users.”

Dangerous driving, meanwhile, is defined as being committed when the standard of driving “falls far below the minimum standard expected of a competent and careful driver, and includes behaviour that could potentially endanger yourself or other drivers.”

The Crown Prosecution Service makes its decision on which offence someone suspected to have committed a crime should be charged with on whether there is a reasonable prospect of conviction.

That is one reason why, particularly in driving cases, the lesser offence of careless driving is chosen, rather than the more serious one of dangerous driving – although as one commenter on the thread pointed out, that is largely the result of a legal process that is in urgent need of reform..

Guy himself added: “I’m happy with the outcome, enforcement is the biggest deterrent and I think Avon and Somerset Police are a leading constabulary in the fight against road danger.”

https://road.cc/content/news/nmotd-821-clsoe-pass-driver-fined-295801

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:

“What’s interesting from the Twitter thread is the views that the driver
should have been charged with dangerous rather than careless driving.”

The latter is defined by law as being committed when the standard of
driving “falls below the minimum standard expected of a competent and
careful driver, and includes driving without reasonable consideration for
other road users.”

Dangerous driving, meanwhile, is defined as being committed when the
standard of driving “falls far below the minimum standard expected of a
competent and careful driver, and includes behaviour that could potentially
endanger yourself or other drivers.”

> https://road.cc/content/news/nmotd-821-clsoe-pass-driver-fined-295801

COMMENT:

It’s high time that cyclists were brought under this legislation.

Recent cases where cyclist killers have walked free are simply a disgrace.

Something must be done.

--
Spike

They can indeed charge dangerous driving and the courts can decide to return an alternative verdict. It is documented in the CPS charging guidance.

There is also a discussion of what constitutes dangerous driving, and the description there does cover it.

What we don't know from the article is what they were charged with as the prosecution will often take an admission of guilt for the lesser charge to avoid a trial. The sides are under an obligation to be efficient with the court's time, so there is pressure on the prosecution to settle.

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:

> They can indeed charge dangerous driving and the courts can decide to
> return an alternative verdict. It is documented in the CPS charging guidance.

> There is also a discussion of what constitutes dangerous driving, and the
> description there does cover it.

> What we don't know from the article is what they were charged with as the
> prosecution will often take an admission of guilt for the lesser charge
> to avoid a trial. The sides are under an obligation to be efficient with
> the court's time, so there is pressure on the prosecution to settle.

Hence the “as we have seen many times lately, it's always a good policy to
plead guilty at the first time of asking.” Presumably even if you didn’t do
it. Must save court time….for whatever reason.

--
Spike

I wonder if there is rear footage around? It seems to me that the Audi driver decided that the cyclist was in his way and sounded his horn as a demand to pass, and the cyclist responded by a defensive primary road position. From the sound I wonder how much the car was hassling.

Leicester Police have asked for footage to progress an incident yesterday which I think was my closest pass, the person riding behind thought I'd been hit.

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:

> I wonder if there is rear footage around? It seems to me that the Audi
> driver decided that the cyclist was in his way and sounded his horn as a
> demand to pass, and the cyclist responded by a defensive primary road
> position. From the sound I wonder how much the car was hassling.

To ‘defend’ yourself by pulling out into the path of faster vehicles is not
a defensive move, it is a dangerous one and not one supported by law.

> Leicester Police have asked for footage to progress an incident yesterday
> which I think was my closest pass, the person riding behind thought I'd been hit.

Whatever.

--
Spike

I would say that warrants more than 3 points. But at least some action has been taken by the police and this driver might think twice next time.

On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 8:19:56 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> I wonder if there is rear footage around? It seems to me that the Audi driver decided that the cyclist was in his way and sounded his horn as a demand to pass, and the cyclist responded by a defensive primary road position.

As recommended by Roadcraft.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FcNPagEXEAc_yG6?format=jpg&name=medium

Even the bozo in Scotland has heard of it.

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:

> I would say that warrants more than 3 points. But at least some action
> has been taken by the police and this driver might think twice next time.

There’s an old saying that goes “You might as well be hanged for a sheep as
a lamb”.

--
Spike

Active Travel Neighbourhoods 💚
·
Sep 5, 2022
@ActiveTravelNet
·
Follow
Replying to @ASPRoadSafety
They got off very lightly. You should charge them for reckless driving. This is beyond driving without due care and attention. This is very obviously a deliberate act.

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 8:19:56 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

>> I wonder if there is rear footage around? It seems to me that the Audi
>> driver decided that the cyclist was in his way and sounded his horn as a
>> demand to pass, and the cyclist responded by a defensive primary road position.

> As recommended by Roadcraft.

> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FcNPagEXEAc_yG6?format=jpg&name=medium

> Even the bozo in Scotland has heard of it.

Unfortunately, the law doesn’t support that rash action.

It’s no different to a vehicle waiting to turn into main road, deciding
that someone is travelling too fast, and pulling out in front of them.

What sort of defence do you think they might mount, as “I was defending
myself, M’lud” won’t cut it.

Cyclists seem to know only the parts of the Highway Code that suit them.

--
Spike

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> Active Travel Neighbourhoods 💚
> ·
> Sep 5, 2022
> @ActiveTravelNet
>
> Follow
> Replying to @ASPRoadSafety
> They got off very lightly. You should charge them for reckless driving.
> This is beyond driving without due care and attention. This is very
> obviously a deliberate act.

Is this the one about the cyclist pulling out into the path of a faster
vehicle as a defensive manoeuvre?

An act that is not supported in law?

--
Spike

It was too quick for me to recognise properly 3

To be fair I always assume it'll be an Audi until I see otherwise.

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:

> It was too quick for me to recognise properly 3
>
> To be fair I always assume it'll be an Audi until I see otherwise.

Whatever are you talking about, apart from your envy?

--
Spike

The close pass was intended to cause the cyclist injury and the driver should have been prosecuted for attempted murder. Sure they would have had to climb back down to just dangerous driving but it would have shaken the driver up that it was a possibility he might have been imprisoned for being a c**t. That car is expensive and quite rare, I bet he'd hate it to get scratched or dented.

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:

> The close pass was intended to cause the cyclist injury and the driver
> should have been prosecuted for attempted murder.

I can think of several ways of killing someone by non-contact with a
vehicle, but missing them with it isn’t one of them.

--
Spike

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 7:14:02 AM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> The close pass was intended to cause the cyclist injury and the driver should have been prosecuted for attempted murder. Sure they would have had to climb back down to just dangerous driving but it would have shaken the driver up that it was a possibility he might have been imprisoned for being a c**t. That car is expensive and quite rare, I bet he'd hate it to get scratched or dented.

Interesting point that an assault includes creating the belief that you are going to be assaulted, physical contact is not a requirement.

INDEED.

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 7:14:02 AM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>> The close pass was intended to cause the cyclist injury and the driver
>> should have been prosecuted for attempted murder. Sure they would have
>> had to climb back down to just dangerous driving but it would have
>> shaken the driver up that it was a possibility he might have been
>> imprisoned for being a c**t. That car is expensive and quite rare, I bet
>> he'd hate it to get scratched or dented.
>
> Interesting point that an assault includes creating the belief that you
> are going to be assaulted, physical contact is not a requirement.

> INDEED.
It was always thus, M’lud. 🙄

--
Spike

Spike <Aero.Spike@mail.invalid> wrote:
> swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 7:14:02 AM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> The close pass was intended to cause the cyclist injury and the driver
>>> should have been prosecuted for attempted murder. Sure they would have
>>> had to climb back down to just dangerous driving but it would have
>>> shaken the driver up that it was a possibility he might have been
>>> imprisoned for being a c**t. That car is expensive and quite rare, I bet
>>> he'd hate it to get scratched or dented.

>> Interesting point that an assault includes creating the belief that you
>> are going to be assaulted, physical contact is not a requirement.

>> INDEED.

> It was always thus, M’lud. 🙄

The ‘physical contact’ is technically known as ‘battery’, which as M’lud
will doubtless be aware forms part of the charge of ‘Assault and Battery’.

--
Spike

The honking takes places as the cyclist is just leaving the first mini-roundabout, there is a very short piece if road between the two mini-roundabouts, there is a pedestrian refuge and each end of this section of road. Not a long enough strectch of road to overtake. Why is he honking? it's clearly aggressive and intimidating.
The driver starts overtaking as soon as the front of the car has passed the pedestrian refuge after the second mini-roundabout, on a hatched section of roadway. If this is a punishment pass the punishment can only be Cycling on the road, causing the driver to stop and give way on the roundabout, and being in front.
Pure danger.