In message <s8acub$jqo$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:47:22 on Sat, 22 May
2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>On 21/05/2021 20:56, John Aldridge wrote:
>> In article <igprsqFh34sU1@mid.individual.net>, usenet@page2.eu says...
>>>
>>> This is a genuine question because I don't know the answer: why do
>>>people use Trainline.com to buy tickets?

>> I suspect because, if you google for, e.g., "train exter
>>peterborough",

>> the top hit is thetrainline.com
>>
>To be precise the first ad is for trainline

Ads are "hits" too.

>and the first TWO results is for the trainline using Google.
>
>SWR and LNER were the only ToCs in the first two pages of results.
>
>Others may get different results depending on how much google knows
>about you.
>
>It is of great concern to me that the ToCs are featuring so far down in
>the result as that is were you get the most useful information,
>particularly delays and cancellations.

You need to tell them to spend more money with Google, to get up the
ratings!
--
Roland Perry

On 22/05/2021 14:52, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <s8acub$jqo$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:47:22 on Sat, 22 May
> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>> On 21/05/2021 20:56, John Aldridge wrote:
>>> In article <igprsqFh34sU1@mid.individual.net>, usenet@page2.eu says...
>>>>
>>>> This is a genuine question because I don't know the answer: why do
>>>> people use Trainline.com to buy tickets?
>
>>>  I suspect because, if you google for, e.g., "train exter peterborough",
>
>>> the top hit is thetrainline.com
>>>
>> To be precise the first ad is for trainline
>
> Ads are "hits" too.
>
>> and the first TWO results is for the trainline using Google.
>>
>> SWR and LNER were the only ToCs in the first two pages of results.
>>
>> Others may get different results depending on how much google knows
>> about you.
>>
>> It is of great concern to me that the ToCs are featuring so far down
>> in the result as that is were you get the most useful information,
>> particularly delays and cancellations.
>
> You need to tell them to spend more money with Google, to get up the
> ratings!

If this practice continues, significant numbers of people may migrate to
a search provider which sorts results by relevance rather than payment.

On Sat, 22 May 2021 16:32:13 +0100, Certes <none@nowhere.net> wrote:

>On 22/05/2021 14:52, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <s8acub$jqo$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:47:22 on Sat, 22 May
>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>> On 21/05/2021 20:56, John Aldridge wrote:
>>>> In article <igprsqFh34sU1@mid.individual.net>, usenet@page2.eu says...
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a genuine question because I don't know the answer: why do
>>>>> people use Trainline.com to buy tickets?
>>
>>>>  I suspect because, if you google for, e.g., "train exter peterborough",
>>
>>>> the top hit is thetrainline.com
>>>>
>>> To be precise the first ad is for trainline
>>
>> Ads are "hits" too.
>>
>>> and the first TWO results is for the trainline using Google.
>>>
>>> SWR and LNER were the only ToCs in the first two pages of results.
>>>
>>> Others may get different results depending on how much google knows
>>> about you.
>>>
>>> It is of great concern to me that the ToCs are featuring so far down
>>> in the result as that is were you get the most useful information,
>>> particularly delays and cancellations.
>>
>> You need to tell them to spend more money with Google, to get up the
>> ratings!
>
>If this practice continues, significant numbers of people may migrate to
>a search provider which sorts results by relevance rather than payment.

I suspect that, as far as advertising is concerned, the TOCs will only
really be interested in advertising on keywords directly related to
themselves, rather than generic ones. That's why Trainline is the top
advert (and often only advert) for most rail-related queries, not only
on Google but on Bing and Duckduckgo as well.

But it's not the advertising spend where the TOCs are falling down, it's
on SEO. Trainline's web developers have done extremely well in that
respect - every possible combination of origin and destination station
has a unique URL, for example:

https://www.thetrainline.com/train-times/exeter-to-peterborough
https://www.thetrainline.com/train-times/pershore-to-ely
https://www.thetrainline.com/train-times/shippea-hill-to-denton

Each of those pages is full of keyword rich, SEO-friendly text that will
show up very well on almost any search for related terms. And then each
station has its own page, with original text describing the station and
its surrounds. This, for example, is an extract of what it has to say
about Shippea Hill:

Shippea Hill railway station stops along the Breckland Line between
Norwich and Cambridge and serves almost no one. Between 2015 and 2016,
it is one of the least used stations in the UK with just 12 people
using the station throughout the whole year. There have been several
attempts to boost passenger numbers at the station, most notable when
one of the finalists from the TV series The Great British Bake Off
managed to attract a dozen-strong crowd and 2017 when documentary
makers travelled through on their way to every station in the country.
None of the TOC websites have anything like this. Quite apart from the
fact that they obviously have no interest in having content for stations
outside their area, the TOC websites are almost all built around a
standard booking system rather than being unique to them. But search
engines love unique content, and will tend to uprate it over sites which
merely repeat the same thing as lots of others.

Mark

In message <s8b85t$bc6$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:32:13 on Sat, 22 May
2021, Certes <none@nowhere.net> remarked:
>On 22/05/2021 14:52, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <s8acub$jqo$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:47:22 on Sat, 22 May
>>2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>> On 21/05/2021 20:56, John Aldridge wrote:
>>>> In article <igprsqFh34sU1@mid.individual.net>, usenet@page2.eu says...
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a genuine question because I don't know the answer: why do
>>>>>people use Trainline.com to buy tickets?
>>
>>>>  I suspect because, if you google for, e.g., "train exter
>>>>peterborough",
>>
>>>> the top hit is thetrainline.com
>>>>
>>> To be precise the first ad is for trainline
>> Ads are "hits" too.
>>
>>> and the first TWO results is for the trainline using Google.
>>>
>>> SWR and LNER were the only ToCs in the first two pages of results.
>>>
>>> Others may get different results depending on how much google knows
>>>about you.
>>>
>>> It is of great concern to me that the ToCs are featuring so far down
>>>in the result as that is were you get the most useful information,
>>>particularly delays and cancellations.

>> You need to tell them to spend more money with Google, to get up the
>>ratings!
>
>If this practice continues, significant numbers of people may migrate to
>a search provider which sorts results by relevance rather than payment.

Hasn't happened yet, and Google has been the market leader a very long
time.
--
Roland Perry

In message <rdaiagpnd6co8klc72v70178nm76pq9ml1@4ax.com>, at 17:18:31 on
Sat, 22 May 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:

> Shippea Hill railway station stops along the Breckland Line between
> Norwich and Cambridge and serves almost no one. Between 2015 and 2016,
> it is one of the least used stations in the UK with just 12 people
> using the station throughout the whole year.

What can one say! The official stats don't reveal if it's 12 people
using it once each, or one person using it 12 times.

But it's worse than that - the numbers are derived from ticket sales
data and there may be reasons why some stations appear to feature in
fewer tickets.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <s8b85t$bc6$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:32:13 on Sat, 22 May
> 2021, Certes <none@nowhere.net> remarked:
>> On 22/05/2021 14:52, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <s8acub$jqo$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:47:22 on Sat, 22 May
>>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>> On 21/05/2021 20:56, John Aldridge wrote:
>>>>> In article <igprsqFh34sU1@mid.individual.net>, usenet@page2.eu says...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a genuine question because I don't know the answer: why do
>>>>>> people use Trainline.com to buy tickets?
>>>
>>>>>  I suspect because, if you google for, e.g., "train exter
>>>>> peterborough",
>>>
>>>>> the top hit is thetrainline.com
>>>>>
>>>> To be precise the first ad is for trainline
>>> Ads are "hits" too.
>>>
>>>> and the first TWO results is for the trainline using Google.
>>>>
>>>> SWR and LNER were the only ToCs in the first two pages of results.
>>>>
>>>> Others may get different results depending on how much google knows
>>>> about you.
>>>>
>>>> It is of great concern to me that the ToCs are featuring so far down
>>>> in the result as that is were you get the most useful information,
>>>> particularly delays and cancellations.
>
>>> You need to tell them to spend more money with Google, to get up the
>>> ratings!
>>
>> If this practice continues, significant numbers of people may migrate to
>> a search provider which sorts results by relevance rather than payment.
>
> Hasn't happened yet, and Google has been the market leader a very long
> time.

I moved to DuckDuckGo because I don’t like Google’s attitude to privacy.

--
Jeremy Double

On 22/05/2021 16:32, Certes wrote:
> On 22/05/2021 14:52, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <s8acub$jqo$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:47:22 on Sat, 22 May
>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>
>>> It is of great concern to me that the ToCs are featuring so far down
>>> in the result as that is were you get the most useful information,
>>> particularly delays and cancellations.
>>
>> You need to tell them to spend more money with Google, to get up the
>> ratings!
>
> If this practice continues, significant numbers of people may migrate to
> a search provider which sorts results by relevance rather than payment.

How would it be funded?

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
1995 - Blonde Redhead - Blonde Redhead

On 22/05/2021 23:31, Basil Jet wrote:
> On 22/05/2021 16:32, Certes wrote:
>> On 22/05/2021 14:52, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <s8acub$jqo$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:47:22 on Sat, 22 May
>>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>>
>>>> It is of great concern to me that the ToCs are featuring so far down
>>>> in the result as that is were you get the most useful information,
>>>> particularly delays and cancellations.
>>>
>>> You need to tell them to spend more money with Google, to get up the
>>> ratings!
>>
>> If this practice continues, significant numbers of people may migrate to
>> a search provider which sorts results by relevance rather than payment.
>
> How would it be funded?

One option is to carry ads which appear as a separate section of the
page rather then masquerading as the first few search results.

In message <s8c4o2$66l$1@dont-email.me>, at 00:39:46 on Sun, 23 May
2021, Certes <none@nowhere.net> remarked:
>On 22/05/2021 23:31, Basil Jet wrote:
>> On 22/05/2021 16:32, Certes wrote:
>>> On 22/05/2021 14:52, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <s8acub$jqo$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:47:22 on Sat, 22 May
>>>>2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>> It is of great concern to me that the ToCs are featuring so far
>>>>>down in the result as that is were you get the most useful
>>>>>information, particularly delays and cancellations.
>>>>
>>>> You need to tell them to spend more money with Google, to get up
>>>>the ratings!
>>>
>>> If this practice continues, significant numbers of people may migrate to
>>> a search provider which sorts results by relevance rather than payment.
>> How would it be funded?
>
>One option is to carry ads which appear as a separate section of the
>page rather then masquerading as the first few search results.

By having them clustered at the start of the results, separated from the
rest by something like "People also ask..." ?

Oh, Wait!
--
Roland Perry

On Sat, 22 May 2021 16:32:13 +0100, Certes wrote:

> On 22/05/2021 14:52, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <s8acub$jqo$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:47:22 on Sat, 22 May
>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>> On 21/05/2021 20:56, John Aldridge wrote:
>>>> In article <igprsqFh34sU1@mid.individual.net>, usenet@page2.eu says...
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a genuine question because I don't know the answer: why do
>>>>> people use Trainline.com to buy tickets?
>>
>>>>  I suspect because, if you google for, e.g., "train exter peterborough",
>>
>>>> the top hit is thetrainline.com
>>>>
>>> To be precise the first ad is for trainline
>>
>> Ads are "hits" too.
>>
>>> and the first TWO results is for the trainline using Google.
>>>
>>> SWR and LNER were the only ToCs in the first two pages of results.
>>>
>>> Others may get different results depending on how much google knows
>>> about you.
>>>
>>> It is of great concern to me that the ToCs are featuring so far down
>>> in the result as that is were you get the most useful information,
>>> particularly delays and cancellations.
>>
>> You need to tell them to spend more money with Google, to get up the
>> ratings!
>
> If this practice continues, significant numbers of people may migrate to
> a search provider which sorts results by relevance rather than payment.

How do you propose they measure 'relevance'? At one time G. used to
use the number of sites that link to the result to rate results,
but maybe it's more complex than that these days.

mechanic <mechanic@example.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 22 May 2021 16:32:13 +0100, Certes wrote:
>
>> On 22/05/2021 14:52, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <s8acub$jqo$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:47:22 on Sat, 22 May
>>> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>>>> On 21/05/2021 20:56, John Aldridge wrote:
>>>>> In article <igprsqFh34sU1@mid.individual.net>, usenet@page2.eu says...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a genuine question because I don't know the answer: why do
>>>>>> people use Trainline.com to buy tickets?
>>>
>>>>>  I suspect because, if you google for, e.g., "train exter peterborough",
>>>
>>>>> the top hit is thetrainline.com
>>>>>
>>>> To be precise the first ad is for trainline
>>>
>>> Ads are "hits" too.
>>>
>>>> and the first TWO results is for the trainline using Google.
>>>>
>>>> SWR and LNER were the only ToCs in the first two pages of results.
>>>>
>>>> Others may get different results depending on how much google knows
>>>> about you.
>>>>
>>>> It is of great concern to me that the ToCs are featuring so far down
>>>> in the result as that is were you get the most useful information,
>>>> particularly delays and cancellations.
>>>
>>> You need to tell them to spend more money with Google, to get up the
>>> ratings!
>>
>> If this practice continues, significant numbers of people may migrate to
>> a search provider which sorts results by relevance rather than payment.
>
> How do you propose they measure 'relevance'? At one time G. used to
> use the number of sites that link to the result to rate results,
> but maybe it's more complex than that these days.
>

I'm sure it is. The Google search and ranking algorithm is a rapidly
changing, closely guarded secret.