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aus+uk / uk.rec.cars.maintenance / Re: Ping Dave Plowman

SubjectAuthor
* Ping Dave PlowmanDavey
`* Re: Ping Dave PlowmanDave Plowman (News)
 `* Re: Ping Dave PlowmanDavey
  +* Re: Ping Dave PlowmanRJH
  |+- Re: Ping Dave PlowmanCursitor Doom
  |`* Re: Ping Dave PlowmanDave Plowman (News)
  | +* Re: Ping Dave PlowmanDavey
  | |+- Re: Ping Dave PlowmanDave Plowman (News)
  | |`- Re: Ping Dave PlowmanCursitor Doom
  | `* Re: Ping Dave PlowmanAdrian Caspersz
  |  `* Re: Ping Dave PlowmanDave Plowman (News)
  |   `* Re: Ping Dave PlowmanDavey
  |    `* Re: Ping Dave PlowmanDave Plowman (News)
  |     `* Re: Ping Dave PlowmanFredxx
  |      `* Re: Ping Dave PlowmanDave Plowman (News)
  |       `* Re: Ping Dave PlowmanAndrew
  |        `* Re: Ping Dave PlowmanPeter Hill
  |         `* Re: Ping Dave PlowmanAdrian Caspersz
  |          +* Re: Ping Dave PlowmanPeter Hill
  |          |+- Re: Ping Dave PlowmanDave Plowman (News)
  |          |`* Re: Ping Dave PlowmanDave Plowman (News)
  |          | `* Re: Ping Dave PlowmanFredxx
  |          |  `* Re: Ping Dave PlowmanPeter Hill
  |          |   `- Re: Ping Dave PlowmanFredxx
  |          +* Re: Ping Dave PlowmanFredxx
  |          |`* Re: Ping Dave PlowmanIan Jackson
  |          | `* Re: Ping Dave PlowmanDave Plowman (News)
  |          |  `- Re: Ping Dave PlowmanIan Jackson
  |          `* Re: Ping Dave PlowmanDave Plowman (News)
  |           +- Re: Ping Dave Plowmanstephen.hull
  |           `* Re: Ping Dave PlowmanPeter Hill
  |            +- Re: Ping Dave PlowmanCursitor Doom
  |            +- Re: Ping Dave PlowmanCursitor Doom
  |            `- Re: Ping Dave PlowmanDave Plowman (News)
  `- Re: Ping Dave PlowmanDave Plowman (News)

Pages:12
Re: Ping Dave Plowman

<5942bc2377dave@davenoise.co.uk>

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Ping Dave Plowman
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 18:25:54 +0100
Organization: None
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Sat, 26 Jun 2021 17:25 UTC

In article <EBIU3aBtU01gFwS8@brattleho.plus.com>,
Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:
> In the 1970s, a works colleague had a Hillman Hunter estate. He did
> various bits of maintenance on it, including stripping down and
> refurbishing the automatic gearbox (in the works mechanical workshop
> while leaving the car in the carpark for a few days). He reckoned that
> Hillman deliberately designed their vehicles to work with loose
> tolerance in order to allow them to be easily serviced and maintained in
> the far distant parts of the British Empire.

Hillman didn't make the auto box.

--
*Why is 'abbreviation' such a long word?

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Ping Dave Plowman

<efbbbd4259.Steve@btopenworld.com>

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From: stephen....@btinternet.com
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Ping Dave Plowman
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 18:43:20 +0100
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 by: stephen....@btinternet.com - Sat, 26 Jun 2021 17:43 UTC

In message <5942b14267dave@davenoise.co.uk>
"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <ijmg9iFf0hmU1@mid.individual.net>,
> Adrian Caspersz <email@here.invalid> wrote:
>> On 25/06/2021 09:09, Peter Hill wrote:
>> > On 24/06/2021 18:33, Andrew wrote:
>> >>
>> >> BS. None of the original austin rover car workers were employed at the
>> >> new Mini factory. BMW trained people from scratch.
>> >>
>> >> Nissan similarly refused to employ anyone who had ever worked in the
>> >> UK car industry. They employed local people and trained them in the
>> >> Nissan-way from the outset.
>> >
>> > Which eliminated anyone that worked to "British standard piss fit".
>> >
>> > Norton forged crankshafts in one piece. Fully machined them in one
>> > piece. Then parted them in the middle to bolt a flywheel in. Put all the
>> > left halves in one bin and all the right halves in another bin, never
>> > the twain to meet again. Then they had to fit expensive "superblend"
>> > self aligning bearings to survive the out of true running.
>
>
>> Various stories exist across manufacturing industries with non-Japanese
>> production lines purposely having to make designs that accepted wide
>> tolerances, which worked, and were serviceable without having to going
>> to the extremes of special working practices. That does have its
>> advantages, particularly when some UK vehicles have an extended life
>> abroad in the midst of basic tools and training.
>
>> However the Japanese like their fine production for performance and
>> reliability, and a worker would strive to make parts to close
>> tolerances, well within in the range of allowable.
>
>> In the west making a similar product we'd naturally and unhappily sail
>> close to the tolerance limits of the range, and call it a day ... Then
>> someone would have to implement even stricter tolerances and training
>> over here, with expense, to manufacture equivalent products.
>
>> So different attitudes...
>
>Remember the story of Rolls allowing a US company(s) to make their V12
>engine, as used in the Spitfire etc, under licence? The US ones never made
>the specs, power wise. According to Rolls, because of not being able to
>work to the close tolerance needed.

I remember working for Rolls Royce in the finishing shop during the
1980's when their rear light reflectors were rejected by the Japanese
because they weren't polished enough, yet we were expected to except
their crap at the time.

--

Re: Ping Dave Plowman

<giCtfgDHe31gFwkv@brattleho.plus.com>

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From: ianREMOV...@g3ohx.co.uk (Ian Jackson)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Ping Dave Plowman
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 19:52:55 +0100
Lines: 19
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 by: Ian Jackson - Sat, 26 Jun 2021 18:52 UTC

In message <5942bc2377dave@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> writes
>In article <EBIU3aBtU01gFwS8@brattleho.plus.com>,
> Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:
>> In the 1970s, a works colleague had a Hillman Hunter estate. He did
>> various bits of maintenance on it, including stripping down and
>> refurbishing the automatic gearbox (in the works mechanical workshop
>> while leaving the car in the carpark for a few days). He reckoned that
>> Hillman deliberately designed their vehicles to work with loose
>> tolerance in order to allow them to be easily serviced and maintained in
>> the far distant parts of the British Empire.
>
>Hillman didn't make the auto box.
>
But he still refurbished it - and he did a fair bit of other maintenance
and overhauling. At least some of the rest of the car must have been
made by Hillman (a Chrysler company, IIRC)!
--
Ian

Re: Ping Dave Plowman

<sb89ta$3fv$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: skys...@yahoo.com (Peter Hill)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Ping Dave Plowman
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2021 23:32:14 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Peter Hill - Sat, 26 Jun 2021 22:32 UTC

On 26/06/2021 16:27, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <ijmg9iFf0hmU1@mid.individual.net>,
> Adrian Caspersz <email@here.invalid> wrote:
>> On 25/06/2021 09:09, Peter Hill wrote:
>>> On 24/06/2021 18:33, Andrew wrote:
>>>>
>>>> BS. None of the original austin rover car workers were employed at the
>>>> new Mini factory. BMW trained people from scratch.
>>>>
>>>> Nissan similarly refused to employ anyone who had ever worked in the
>>>> UK car industry. They employed local people and trained them in the
>>>> Nissan-way from the outset.
>>>
>>> Which eliminated anyone that worked to "British standard piss fit".
>>>
>>> Norton forged crankshafts in one piece. Fully machined them in one
>>> piece. Then parted them in the middle to bolt a flywheel in. Put all the
>>> left halves in one bin and all the right halves in another bin, never
>>> the twain to meet again. Then they had to fit expensive "superblend"
>>> self aligning bearings to survive the out of true running.
>
>
>> Various stories exist across manufacturing industries with non-Japanese
>> production lines purposely having to make designs that accepted wide
>> tolerances, which worked, and were serviceable without having to going
>> to the extremes of special working practices. That does have its
>> advantages, particularly when some UK vehicles have an extended life
>> abroad in the midst of basic tools and training.
>
>> However the Japanese like their fine production for performance and
>> reliability, and a worker would strive to make parts to close
>> tolerances, well within in the range of allowable.
>
>> In the west making a similar product we'd naturally and unhappily sail
>> close to the tolerance limits of the range, and call it a day ... Then
>> someone would have to implement even stricter tolerances and training
>> over here, with expense, to manufacture equivalent products.
>
>> So different attitudes...
>
> Remember the story of Rolls allowing a US company(s) to make their V12
> engine, as used in the Spitfire etc, under licence? The US ones never made
> the specs, power wise. According to Rolls, because of not being able to
> work to the close tolerance needed.
>

It was the other way round. Rolls-Royce made parts to a slack tolerance
and fitted them to the required tolerance. Fitting was done by skilled
craftsmen "Fitters" and would entail hand scraping, lapping, honing,
filing or a final light machining. The car makers told Rolls-Royce that
if they were to have any hope of supplying the demand they would have to
adopt car makers interchangeable fits.

Car makers every part fitted every other part to much tighter tolerance.
If very tight tolerance was needed there would be selective fit. Such as
pistons having 4 or 5 grades.

https://www.autoweek.com/car-life/classic-cars/a30763715/rolls-royce-vs-packard-who-built-a-better-merlin/

> Of course it's the sort of story every maker criticises a rival with. The
> smallest hypodermic needle being sent back with one threaded through it.
> And so on.
>

Re: Ping Dave Plowman

<sb8ctr$in2$7@dont-email.me>

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From: fre...@nospam.co.uk (Fredxx)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Ping Dave Plowman
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 00:23:39 +0100
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 by: Fredxx - Sat, 26 Jun 2021 23:23 UTC

On 26/06/2021 16:29, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <sb6i97$mjb$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
> Peter Hill <skyshac@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> When Yamaha re-designed the Ford Kent into the Zetec to accommodate the
>> sloppy tolerance of Ford's block machining line they had 20 main bearing
>> shell thicknesses with the right tight running clearance. They couldn't
>> stock undersize shells so the bottom end can't be repaired.
>
> Certain types of treatment to crankshafts mean they can't be reground. And
> aluminium cylinder bore are coated, so can't be re-bored either. But if
> that treatment extends the life dramatically, the engine may well never
> need a major overhaul anyway.

How many treatments? Most are a very thin layer, such as nitriding. Shot
peening being another.

Both can be done after a reground, but I've always been sceptical how
they increase the life for the crankshaft.

Re: Ping Dave Plowman

<sb9d69$130s$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: skys...@yahoo.com (Peter Hill)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Ping Dave Plowman
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 09:34:21 +0100
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 by: Peter Hill - Sun, 27 Jun 2021 08:34 UTC

On 27/06/2021 00:23, Fredxx wrote:
> On 26/06/2021 16:29, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> In article <sb6i97$mjb$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
>>     Peter Hill <skyshac@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> When Yamaha re-designed the Ford Kent into the Zetec to accommodate the
>>> sloppy tolerance of Ford's block machining line they had 20 main bearing
>>> shell thicknesses with the right tight running clearance. They couldn't
>>> stock undersize shells so the bottom end can't be repaired.
>>
>> Certain types of treatment to crankshafts mean they can't be reground.
>> And
>> aluminium cylinder bore are coated, so can't be re-bored either. But if
>> that treatment extends the life dramatically, the engine may well never
>> need a major overhaul anyway.
>
> How many treatments? Most are a very thin layer, such as nitriding. Shot
> peening being another.
>
> Both can be done after a reground, but I've always been sceptical how
> they increase the life for the crankshaft.
>
>

Shot peening introduces a compressive layer at the surface. As
compressive stresses do not crack, resistance to fatigue cracking is
greatly improved. The stress is additive, a tensile stress that would
normally cause cracking can be reduced below the endurance limit. If
stress is below endurance limit of steel it will never crack. Other
materials with alloys such as titanium, nickel or aluminium have no
endurance limit, they will crack with very small stresses applied often
enough (Mr Geller's stainless steel tea spoons). To double the cyclic
life the stress only has to reduce by 12.3%. For instance, 500 Mpa
tensile stress with 61 MPa compressive stress due to shot peen.

All rotating jet engine parts, shafts, discs and drums are shot peened.
Everything in a jet engine is going to crack sometime. The art and cost
is removing and replacing them at 2/3 of the life that the worst min
spec part will fail at.

All journal bearing surfaces should be hardened and polished. This
prevents scuffing on startup before oil film develops.

The treatment that is pure hogwash is dunking in cryogenic Nitrogen. The
only aerospace parts that are processed using cryogenic heat treatment
are steel ball and roller bearing tracks. They use an acetone and solid
CO2 mixture at -75°C to quench the red hot bearing ring, the whole
heating and quench process is done in an inert atmosphere to prevent
oxidation. This is to obtain the required hardness and not life. As each
flight for a large civil jet engine is around £500 in overhaul costs,
one more flight life would pay for a huge amount of liquid nitrogen
dunked parts. But as it doesn't give any life improvement at all they
don't bother. Dunking parts in liquid nitrogen is worse than using
water. Water makes steam which insulates the hot part, nitrogen will
boil and bubble just the same with room temperature parts. That's why
quenching is normally done in oil.

Meanwhile jet engine makers do platinum plate some parts, for corrosion
protection, paint would burn off.

Re: Ping Dave Plowman

<ibegdg95pe2u4hfoacif06tn362botn12g@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=141&group=uk.rec.cars.maintenance#141

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From: cd...@nowhere.com (Cursitor Doom)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Ping Dave Plowman
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 09:45:49 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Cursitor Doom - Sun, 27 Jun 2021 08:45 UTC

On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 23:32:14 +0100, Peter Hill <skyshac@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On 26/06/2021 16:27, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> In article <ijmg9iFf0hmU1@mid.individual.net>,
>> Adrian Caspersz <email@here.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 25/06/2021 09:09, Peter Hill wrote:
>>>> On 24/06/2021 18:33, Andrew wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> BS. None of the original austin rover car workers were employed at the
>>>>> new Mini factory. BMW trained people from scratch.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nissan similarly refused to employ anyone who had ever worked in the
>>>>> UK car industry. They employed local people and trained them in the
>>>>> Nissan-way from the outset.
>>>>
>>>> Which eliminated anyone that worked to "British standard piss fit".
>>>>
>>>> Norton forged crankshafts in one piece. Fully machined them in one
>>>> piece. Then parted them in the middle to bolt a flywheel in. Put all the
>>>> left halves in one bin and all the right halves in another bin, never
>>>> the twain to meet again. Then they had to fit expensive "superblend"
>>>> self aligning bearings to survive the out of true running.
>>
>>
>>> Various stories exist across manufacturing industries with non-Japanese
>>> production lines purposely having to make designs that accepted wide
>>> tolerances, which worked, and were serviceable without having to going
>>> to the extremes of special working practices. That does have its
>>> advantages, particularly when some UK vehicles have an extended life
>>> abroad in the midst of basic tools and training.
>>
>>> However the Japanese like their fine production for performance and
>>> reliability, and a worker would strive to make parts to close
>>> tolerances, well within in the range of allowable.
>>
>>> In the west making a similar product we'd naturally and unhappily sail
>>> close to the tolerance limits of the range, and call it a day ... Then
>>> someone would have to implement even stricter tolerances and training
>>> over here, with expense, to manufacture equivalent products.
>>
>>> So different attitudes...
>>
>> Remember the story of Rolls allowing a US company(s) to make their V12
>> engine, as used in the Spitfire etc, under licence? The US ones never made
>> the specs, power wise. According to Rolls, because of not being able to
>> work to the close tolerance needed.
>>
>
>It was the other way round. Rolls-Royce made parts to a slack tolerance
>and fitted them to the required tolerance. Fitting was done by skilled
>craftsmen "Fitters" and would entail hand scraping, lapping, honing,
>filing or a final light machining. The car makers told Rolls-Royce that
>if they were to have any hope of supplying the demand they would have to
>adopt car makers interchangeable fits.
>
>Car makers every part fitted every other part to much tighter tolerance.
>If very tight tolerance was needed there would be selective fit. Such as
>pistons having 4 or 5 grades.
>
>https://www.autoweek.com/car-life/classic-cars/a30763715/rolls-royce-vs-packard-who-built-a-better-merlin/
>
>> Of course it's the sort of story every maker criticises a rival with.
>> smallest hypodermic needle being sent back with one threaded through it.
>> And so on.
>>

Yet if you go to the science museum in London (I'm assuming these
exhibits are still there) you can see an actual Merlin engine cut-way
juxtaposed with a Messerschmitt from a 109. The build quality of the
former knocks the latter into a cocked hat. It's astonishing that RR
were able to turn out that kind of quality in wartime. Check it out
sometime; it's a work of art in its own right.
Actually it may have been the Imperial War Museum...

Re: Ping Dave Plowman

<9afgdg9j8fu5k1l9enh9c6m46ig2ldnrtb@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=142&group=uk.rec.cars.maintenance#142

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From: cd...@nowhere.com (Cursitor Doom)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Ping Dave Plowman
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 09:58:34 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 59
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 by: Cursitor Doom - Sun, 27 Jun 2021 08:58 UTC

On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 23:32:14 +0100, Peter Hill <skyshac@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On 26/06/2021 16:27, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> In article <ijmg9iFf0hmU1@mid.individual.net>,
>> Adrian Caspersz <email@here.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 25/06/2021 09:09, Peter Hill wrote:
>>>> On 24/06/2021 18:33, Andrew wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> BS. None of the original austin rover car workers were employed at the
>>>>> new Mini factory. BMW trained people from scratch.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nissan similarly refused to employ anyone who had ever worked in the
>>>>> UK car industry. They employed local people and trained them in the
>>>>> Nissan-way from the outset.
>>>>
>>>> Which eliminated anyone that worked to "British standard piss fit".
>>>>
>>>> Norton forged crankshafts in one piece. Fully machined them in one
>>>> piece. Then parted them in the middle to bolt a flywheel in. Put all the
>>>> left halves in one bin and all the right halves in another bin, never
>>>> the twain to meet again. Then they had to fit expensive "superblend"
>>>> self aligning bearings to survive the out of true running.
>>
>>
>>> Various stories exist across manufacturing industries with non-Japanese
>>> production lines purposely having to make designs that accepted wide
>>> tolerances, which worked, and were serviceable without having to going
>>> to the extremes of special working practices. That does have its
>>> advantages, particularly when some UK vehicles have an extended life
>>> abroad in the midst of basic tools and training.
>>
>>> However the Japanese like their fine production for performance and
>>> reliability, and a worker would strive to make parts to close
>>> tolerances, well within in the range of allowable.
>>
>>> In the west making a similar product we'd naturally and unhappily sail
>>> close to the tolerance limits of the range, and call it a day ... Then
>>> someone would have to implement even stricter tolerances and training
>>> over here, with expense, to manufacture equivalent products.
>>
>>> So different attitudes...
>>
>> Remember the story of Rolls allowing a US company(s) to make their V12
>> engine, as used in the Spitfire etc, under licence? The US ones never made
>> the specs, power wise. According to Rolls, because of not being able to
>> work to the close tolerance needed.
>>
>
>It was the other way round. Rolls-Royce made parts to a slack tolerance
>and fitted them to the required tolerance. Fitting was done by skilled
>craftsmen "Fitters" and would entail hand scraping, lapping, honing,
>filing or a final light machining. The car makers told Rolls-Royce that
>if they were to have any hope of supplying the demand they would have to
>adopt car makers interchangeable fits.

Fettling. And R-R was not a volume car maker but a specialist marque
noted above all else for quality. So a rather spurious comparison
there.

Re: Ping Dave Plowman

<594318ab78dave@davenoise.co.uk>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=143&group=uk.rec.cars.maintenance#143

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Ping Dave Plowman
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 11:16:35 +0100
Organization: None
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Sun, 27 Jun 2021 10:16 UTC

In article <sb89ta$3fv$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
Peter Hill <skyshac@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Remember the story of Rolls allowing a US company(s) to make their V12
> > engine, as used in the Spitfire etc, under licence? The US ones never made
> > the specs, power wise. According to Rolls, because of not being able to
> > work to the close tolerance needed.
> >

> It was the other way round. Rolls-Royce made parts to a slack tolerance
> and fitted them to the required tolerance. Fitting was done by skilled
> craftsmen "Fitters" and would entail hand scraping, lapping, honing,
> filing or a final light machining. The car makers told Rolls-Royce that
> if they were to have any hope of supplying the demand they would have to
> adopt car makers interchangeable fits.

I never stated how Rolls achieved the tight tolerances needed. Only that
they did.

--
*The older you get, the better you realize you were.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Ping Dave Plowman

<sbamsc$1oe$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=147&group=uk.rec.cars.maintenance#147

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: fre...@nospam.co.uk (Fredxx)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Ping Dave Plowman
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 21:25:47 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 77
Message-ID: <sbamsc$1oe$1@dont-email.me>
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 by: Fredxx - Sun, 27 Jun 2021 20:25 UTC

On 27/06/2021 09:34, Peter Hill wrote:
> On 27/06/2021 00:23, Fredxx wrote:
>> On 26/06/2021 16:29, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>>> In article <sb6i97$mjb$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
>>>     Peter Hill <skyshac@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> When Yamaha re-designed the Ford Kent into the Zetec to accommodate the
>>>> sloppy tolerance of Ford's block machining line they had 20 main
>>>> bearing
>>>> shell thicknesses with the right tight running clearance. They couldn't
>>>> stock undersize shells so the bottom end can't be repaired.
>>>
>>> Certain types of treatment to crankshafts mean they can't be
>>> reground. And
>>> aluminium cylinder bore are coated, so can't be re-bored either. But if
>>> that treatment extends the life dramatically, the engine may well never
>>> need a major overhaul anyway.
>>
>> How many treatments? Most are a very thin layer, such as nitriding.
>> Shot peening being another.
>>
>> Both can be done after a reground, but I've always been sceptical how
>> they increase the life for the crankshaft.
>>
>>
>
> Shot peening introduces a compressive layer at the surface. As
> compressive stresses do not crack, resistance to fatigue cracking is
> greatly improved. The stress is additive, a tensile stress that would
> normally cause cracking can be reduced below the endurance limit. If
> stress is below endurance limit of steel it will never crack.

I am aware of the principles, but generally crankshafts are designed to
be fairly bullet-proof, and normal motoring should not cause cracking.
If, on the other hand, we were boy racers, then such treatment may well
improve the life of the crank.

> Other
> materials with alloys such as titanium, nickel or aluminium have no
> endurance limit, they will crack with very small stresses applied often
> enough (Mr Geller's stainless steel tea spoons).

I am aware of crack propagation and increased stress at a fracture but
not of a level of stress that can endure a near infinite number of
cycles of stress.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_limit

Does suggest that titanium alloys also have a distinct limit.

> To double the cyclic
> life the stress only has to reduce by 12.3%. For instance, 500 Mpa
> tensile stress with 61 MPa compressive stress due to shot peen.
>
> All rotating jet engine parts, shafts, discs and drums are shot peened.
> Everything in a jet engine is going to crack sometime. The art and cost
> is removing and replacing them at 2/3 of the life that the worst min
> spec part will fail at.
>
> All journal bearing surfaces should be hardened and polished. This
> prevents scuffing on startup before oil film develops.
>
> The treatment that is pure hogwash is dunking in cryogenic Nitrogen. The
> only aerospace parts that are processed using cryogenic heat treatment
> are steel ball and roller bearing tracks. They use an acetone and solid
> CO2 mixture at -75°C to quench the red hot bearing ring, the whole
> heating and quench process is done in an inert atmosphere to prevent
> oxidation. This is to obtain the required hardness and not life. As each
> flight for a large civil jet engine is around £500 in overhaul costs,
> one more flight life would pay for a huge amount of liquid nitrogen
> dunked parts. But as it doesn't give any life improvement at all they
> don't bother. Dunking parts in liquid nitrogen is worse than using
> water. Water makes steam which insulates the hot part, nitrogen will
> boil and bubble just the same with room temperature parts. That's why
> quenching is normally done in oil.
>
> Meanwhile jet engine makers do platinum plate some parts, for corrosion
> protection, paint would burn off.

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