Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

It's documented in The Book, somewhere... -- Larry Wall in <10502@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV>


aus+uk / uk.transport.london / Re: Where to put my railcard on my Oyter card at Heathrow?

SubjectAuthor
* Where to put my railcard on my Oyter card at Heathrow?Roland Perry
`* Where to put my railcard on my Oyter card at Heathrow?Anna Noyd-Dryver
 `* Where to put my railcard on my Oyter card at Heathrow?Roland Perry
  `* Where to put my railcard on my Oyter card at Heathrow?Anna Noyd-Dryver
   `- Where to put my railcard on my Oyter card at Heathrow?Roland Perry

1
Re: Where to put my railcard on my Oyter card at Heathrow?

<JK4HU4VHubtiFAaL@perry.uk>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=14001&group=uk.transport.london#14001

  copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway uk.transport.london
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!lilly.ping.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Where to put my railcard on my Oyter card at Heathrow?
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2022 14:26:31 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 69
Message-ID: <JK4HU4VHubtiFAaL@perry.uk>
References: <t8mshe$55r$2@dont-email.me> <t8npvp$1i6k$1@gal.iecc.com>
<t8numn$pk2$2@dont-email.me> <icJtB8jHkAsiFAnc@perry.uk>
<t8p46s$gje$2@dont-email.me> <gNn9lnp+ADsiFAXv@perry.uk>
<t8ph7e$9ba$2@dont-email.me> <6dD7h+wvMFsiFA0v@perry.uk>
<t8pofj$59e$1@dont-email.me> <feTChK0vkHsiFAQz@perry.uk>
<t8qirl$rc0$1@dont-email.me> <GxM0axPQDWsiFAhZ@perry.uk>
<t8rtdo$oin$2@dont-email.me> <67LbosWMoasiFAGV@perry.uk>
<t8so37$muq$1@dont-email.me> <7UbrjgpNaqsiFAEX@perry.uk>
<g369bh11qcgot89kka095serstqr8sof04@4ax.com> <GiFEOnCxWWtiFAIw@perry.uk>
<t94084$25f$3@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
X-Trace: individual.net nTjtZkzub8UUrI/GKOfPBQKlVX8t7jlxr/E2CxDeIi3EczPtIe
X-Orig-Path: perry.co.uk!roland
Cancel-Lock: sha1:BEDIIU5bYUZ04aNfmX4KC+vdizs=
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.07-M (<5Gi5fZLx$jxkd1U9sxT62mJKIn>)
 by: Roland Perry - Fri, 24 Jun 2022 13:26 UTC

In message <t94084$25f$3@dont-email.me>, at 09:30:44 on Fri, 24 Jun
2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <g369bh11qcgot89kka095serstqr8sof04@4ax.com>, at 17:48:09 on
>> Thu, 23 Jun 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>> remarked:
>>> On Wed, 22 Jun 2022 06:20:13 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <t8so37$muq$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:28:39 on Tue, 21 Jun
>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t8rtdo$oin$2@dont-email.me>, at 07:53:28 on Tue, 21 Jun
>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Heathrow is rather different, of course; they built and own
>>>>>>>>>>> the private
>>>>>>>>>>> station, until recently they ran all services to it;
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, pardon? The Piccadilly Line has been running services to
>>>>>>>>>> it since
>>>>>>>>>> 3pm on 16 December 1977 [according to Wikipedia].
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We're talking about the HEx/HConn/EL
>>>>>>>>> station/platforms/lines/services/staff, not LU.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are we? Last time I looked Oyster was primarily a LU thing. Talking of
>>>>>>>> which, are there any Oyster vending machines at Heathrow for first-time
>>>>>>>> arrivals to get one?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, but they're not really needed, as contactless is easier.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's hugely non-transparent (aka a blank cheque), and children don't
>>>>>> tend to have one.
>>>>>
>>>>> If they're age 10 or younger they travel free if accompanied by an adult.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have to lift them over the gatelines, or will the staff beep them
>>>> through. How can the staff verify their age?
>>>>
>>> The same as done on e.g. buses and trains for 3, 5 or whatever-year
>>> olds for decades - a quick visual assessment via the Mk.1 eyeball. If
>>> in doubt ask for age and date of birth which tends to screen out a
>>> fair proportion of "offenders".
>>
>> Why then do they issue 5-10 photocards to London residents who are
>> children?
>
>To allow them to travel unaccompanied by an adult.

The visual assessment above didn't specify any interaction with an
accompanying adult.

>For visitors, however, to save having to get one of those issued (to which
>you would surely, surely, vociferously object),

Only because the procedure is probably so bureaucratic you couldn't hope
to get it done in five minutes while waiting for your luggage of come
off the belt at the airport.

>children in that age group get free travel if accompanied by an adult
>(up to 4 kids per adult).
>
>You have to go to the wide-access gate on the gateline, potentially seeing
>the person staffing the gateline if there are more than one child per adult
>and you need the gate holding open for longer.

--
Roland Perry

Re: Where to put my railcard on my Oyter card at Heathrow?

<t954fg$it9$5@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=14010&group=uk.transport.london#14010

  copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway uk.transport.london
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Where to put my railcard on my Oyter card at Heathrow?
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2022 19:49:04 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 79
Message-ID: <t954fg$it9$5@dont-email.me>
References: <t8mshe$55r$2@dont-email.me>
<t8npvp$1i6k$1@gal.iecc.com>
<t8numn$pk2$2@dont-email.me>
<icJtB8jHkAsiFAnc@perry.uk>
<t8p46s$gje$2@dont-email.me>
<gNn9lnp+ADsiFAXv@perry.uk>
<t8ph7e$9ba$2@dont-email.me>
<6dD7h+wvMFsiFA0v@perry.uk>
<t8pofj$59e$1@dont-email.me>
<feTChK0vkHsiFAQz@perry.uk>
<t8qirl$rc0$1@dont-email.me>
<GxM0axPQDWsiFAhZ@perry.uk>
<t8rtdo$oin$2@dont-email.me>
<67LbosWMoasiFAGV@perry.uk>
<t8so37$muq$1@dont-email.me>
<7UbrjgpNaqsiFAEX@perry.uk>
<g369bh11qcgot89kka095serstqr8sof04@4ax.com>
<GiFEOnCxWWtiFAIw@perry.uk>
<t94084$25f$3@dont-email.me>
<JK4HU4VHubtiFAaL@perry.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2022 19:49:04 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="19dd47992b9a21f07a30d2f2a66fcf63";
logging-data="19369"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/6Zlm4aJHS3Ms3p2hhp5vxp6eYwd0bmD8="
User-Agent: NewsTap/5.5 (iPhone/iPod Touch)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:+Zl6El48BZS2L5eUGtHLkgSPgM0=
sha1:ckg9nvcFVCEzPhRY7sw6lFSH+/c=
 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Fri, 24 Jun 2022 19:49 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t94084$25f$3@dont-email.me>, at 09:30:44 on Fri, 24 Jun
> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <g369bh11qcgot89kka095serstqr8sof04@4ax.com>, at 17:48:09 on
>>> Thu, 23 Jun 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>> remarked:
>>>> On Wed, 22 Jun 2022 06:20:13 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <t8so37$muq$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:28:39 on Tue, 21 Jun
>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <t8rtdo$oin$2@dont-email.me>, at 07:53:28 on Tue, 21 Jun
>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Heathrow is rather different, of course; they built and own
>>>>>>>>>>>> the private
>>>>>>>>>>>> station, until recently they ran all services to it;
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, pardon? The Piccadilly Line has been running services to
>>>>>>>>>>> it since
>>>>>>>>>>> 3pm on 16 December 1977 [according to Wikipedia].
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We're talking about the HEx/HConn/EL
>>>>>>>>>> station/platforms/lines/services/staff, not LU.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Are we? Last time I looked Oyster was primarily a LU thing. Talking of
>>>>>>>>> which, are there any Oyster vending machines at Heathrow for first-time
>>>>>>>>> arrivals to get one?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, but they're not really needed, as contactless is easier.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's hugely non-transparent (aka a blank cheque), and children don't
>>>>>>> tend to have one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If they're age 10 or younger they travel free if accompanied by an adult.
>>>>>

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>>>>> Do you have to lift them over the gatelines, or will the staff beep them
>>>>> through. How can the staff verify their age?
>>>>>
>>>> The same as done on e.g. buses and trains for 3, 5 or whatever-year
>>>> olds for decades - a quick visual assessment via the Mk.1 eyeball. If
>>>> in doubt ask for age and date of birth which tends to screen out a
>>>> fair proportion of "offenders".
>>>
>>> Why then do they issue 5-10 photocards to London residents who are
>>> children?
>>
>> To allow them to travel unaccompanied by an adult.
>
> The visual assessment above didn't specify any interaction with an
> accompanying adult.
>

I've arrowed above where being accompanied by an adult was mentioned.

>> For visitors, however, to save having to get one of those issued (to which
>> you would surely, surely, vociferously object),
>
> Only because the procedure is probably so bureaucratic you couldn't hope
> to get it done in five minutes while waiting for your luggage of come
> off the belt at the airport.

Indeed not; postal submission with photo and proof of age required.

>> children in that age group get free travel if accompanied by an adult
>> (up to 4 kids per adult).
>>
>> You have to go to the wide-access gate on the gateline, potentially seeing
>> the person staffing the gateline if there are more than one child per adult
>> and you need the gate holding open for longer.
>

Re: Where to put my railcard on my Oyter card at Heathrow?

<bkZjPg0CqttiFA7b@perry.uk>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=14019&group=uk.transport.london#14019

  copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway uk.transport.london
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Where to put my railcard on my Oyter card at Heathrow?
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2022 10:50:58 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 87
Message-ID: <bkZjPg0CqttiFA7b@perry.uk>
References: <t8mshe$55r$2@dont-email.me> <t8npvp$1i6k$1@gal.iecc.com>
<t8numn$pk2$2@dont-email.me> <icJtB8jHkAsiFAnc@perry.uk>
<t8p46s$gje$2@dont-email.me> <gNn9lnp+ADsiFAXv@perry.uk>
<t8ph7e$9ba$2@dont-email.me> <6dD7h+wvMFsiFA0v@perry.uk>
<t8pofj$59e$1@dont-email.me> <feTChK0vkHsiFAQz@perry.uk>
<t8qirl$rc0$1@dont-email.me> <GxM0axPQDWsiFAhZ@perry.uk>
<t8rtdo$oin$2@dont-email.me> <67LbosWMoasiFAGV@perry.uk>
<t8so37$muq$1@dont-email.me> <7UbrjgpNaqsiFAEX@perry.uk>
<g369bh11qcgot89kka095serstqr8sof04@4ax.com> <GiFEOnCxWWtiFAIw@perry.uk>
<t94084$25f$3@dont-email.me> <JK4HU4VHubtiFAaL@perry.uk>
<t954fg$it9$5@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
X-Trace: individual.net xVq3FONCRYGtGvm0Ot8hAQjD2SryvczUbZF2BbaxHDS3QteFyd
X-Orig-Path: perry.co.uk!roland
Cancel-Lock: sha1:oHnBZP63y7RgsaxiFfs1a2UNxTw=
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.07-M (<5Gq5fZrx$jxmd1U9sxR62mJqoj>)
 by: Roland Perry - Sat, 25 Jun 2022 09:50 UTC

In message <t954fg$it9$5@dont-email.me>, at 19:49:04 on Fri, 24 Jun
2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t94084$25f$3@dont-email.me>, at 09:30:44 on Fri, 24 Jun
>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <g369bh11qcgot89kka095serstqr8sof04@4ax.com>, at 17:48:09 on
>>>> Thu, 23 Jun 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>> remarked:
>>>>> On Wed, 22 Jun 2022 06:20:13 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <t8so37$muq$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:28:39 on Tue, 21 Jun
>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <t8rtdo$oin$2@dont-email.me>, at 07:53:28 on Tue, 21 Jun
>>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heathrow is rather different, of course; they built and own
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the private
>>>>>>>>>>>>> station, until recently they ran all services to it;
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, pardon? The Piccadilly Line has been running services to
>>>>>>>>>>>> it since
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3pm on 16 December 1977 [according to Wikipedia].
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We're talking about the HEx/HConn/EL
>>>>>>>>>>> station/platforms/lines/services/staff, not LU.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Are we? Last time I looked Oyster was primarily a LU thing.
>>>>>>>>>>Talking of
>>>>>>>>>> which, are there any Oyster vending machines at Heathrow for
>>>>>>>>>>first-time
>>>>>>>>>> arrivals to get one?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, but they're not really needed, as contactless is easier.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's hugely non-transparent (aka a blank cheque), and children don't
>>>>>>>> tend to have one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If they're age 10 or younger they travel free if accompanied by
>>>>>>>an adult.
>>>>>>
>
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>>>>>> Do you have to lift them over the gatelines, or will the staff beep them
>>>>>> through. How can the staff verify their age?
>>>>>>
>>>>> The same as done on e.g. buses and trains for 3, 5 or whatever-year
>>>>> olds for decades - a quick visual assessment via the Mk.1 eyeball. If
>>>>> in doubt ask for age and date of birth which tends to screen out a
>>>>> fair proportion of "offenders".
>>>>
>>>> Why then do they issue 5-10 photocards to London residents who are
>>>> children?
>>>
>>> To allow them to travel unaccompanied by an adult.
>>
>> The visual assessment above didn't specify any interaction with an
>> accompanying adult.

But you didn't mention them asking the adult to confirm the age, just
looking at the child.

>I've arrowed above where being accompanied by an adult was mentioned.
>
>>> For visitors, however, to save having to get one of those issued (to which
>>> you would surely, surely, vociferously object),
>>
>> Only because the procedure is probably so bureaucratic you couldn't hope
>> to get it done in five minutes while waiting for your luggage of come
>> off the belt at the airport.
>
>Indeed not; postal submission with photo and proof of age required.

That sort of thing is the Achilles Heel of many transport discount
schemes (for tourists). I remember going to an Eastern European capital
about ten years ago where one could buy a highly discounted weekly pass
for trams and buses, but *only* in person from one kiosk in the Market
Square several miles from my hotel (and first one had to ride from the
airport to the hotel, and then on the to Market Square).

It'd be a bit like TfL selling/topping-up Oyster cards only from one
kiosk in Piccadilly Circus. (Well maybe not, London is a bigger place).
--
Roland Perry

Re: Where to put my railcard on my Oyter card at Heathrow?

<t96rl1$3hsph$2@dont-email.me>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=14022&group=uk.transport.london#14022

  copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway uk.transport.london
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED.2a02:c7e:496d:5800:e424:6440:d004:1c5b!not-for-mail
From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Where to put my railcard on my Oyter card at Heathrow?
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2022 11:30:41 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID: <t96rl1$3hsph$2@dont-email.me>
References: <t8mshe$55r$2@dont-email.me>
<t8npvp$1i6k$1@gal.iecc.com>
<t8numn$pk2$2@dont-email.me>
<icJtB8jHkAsiFAnc@perry.uk>
<t8p46s$gje$2@dont-email.me>
<gNn9lnp+ADsiFAXv@perry.uk>
<t8ph7e$9ba$2@dont-email.me>
<6dD7h+wvMFsiFA0v@perry.uk>
<t8pofj$59e$1@dont-email.me>
<feTChK0vkHsiFAQz@perry.uk>
<t8qirl$rc0$1@dont-email.me>
<GxM0axPQDWsiFAhZ@perry.uk>
<t8rtdo$oin$2@dont-email.me>
<67LbosWMoasiFAGV@perry.uk>
<t8so37$muq$1@dont-email.me>
<7UbrjgpNaqsiFAEX@perry.uk>
<g369bh11qcgot89kka095serstqr8sof04@4ax.com>
<GiFEOnCxWWtiFAIw@perry.uk>
<t94084$25f$3@dont-email.me>
<JK4HU4VHubtiFAaL@perry.uk>
<t954fg$it9$5@dont-email.me>
<bkZjPg0CqttiFA7b@perry.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2022 11:30:41 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader01.eternal-september.org; posting-host="2a02:c7e:496d:5800:e424:6440:d004:1c5b";
logging-data="3732273"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"
User-Agent: NewsTap/5.5 (iPhone/iPod Touch)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:cHx/7vnpJp9733naVtfpRgocKpo=
 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Sat, 25 Jun 2022 11:30 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t954fg$it9$5@dont-email.me>, at 19:49:04 on Fri, 24 Jun
> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t94084$25f$3@dont-email.me>, at 09:30:44 on Fri, 24 Jun
>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <g369bh11qcgot89kka095serstqr8sof04@4ax.com>, at 17:48:09 on
>>>>> Thu, 23 Jun 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Jun 2022 06:20:13 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In message <t8so37$muq$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:28:39 on Tue, 21 Jun
>>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <t8rtdo$oin$2@dont-email.me>, at 07:53:28 on Tue, 21 Jun
>>>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heathrow is rather different, of course; they built and own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the private
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> station, until recently they ran all services to it;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, pardon? The Piccadilly Line has been running services to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it since
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3pm on 16 December 1977 [according to Wikipedia].
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We're talking about the HEx/HConn/EL
>>>>>>>>>>>> station/platforms/lines/services/staff, not LU.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Are we? Last time I looked Oyster was primarily a LU thing.
>>>>>>>>>>> Talking of
>>>>>>>>>>> which, are there any Oyster vending machines at Heathrow for
>>>>>>>>>>> first-time
>>>>>>>>>>> arrivals to get one?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, but they're not really needed, as contactless is easier.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's hugely non-transparent (aka a blank cheque), and children don't
>>>>>>>>> tend to have one.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If they're age 10 or younger they travel free if accompanied by
>>>>>>>> an adult.
>>>>>>>
>>
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>>>>>> Do you have to lift them over the gatelines, or will the staff beep them
>>>>>>> through. How can the staff verify their age?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> The same as done on e.g. buses and trains for 3, 5 or whatever-year
>>>>>> olds for decades - a quick visual assessment via the Mk.1 eyeball. If
>>>>>> in doubt ask for age and date of birth which tends to screen out a
>>>>>> fair proportion of "offenders".
>>>>>
>>>>> Why then do they issue 5-10 photocards to London residents who are
>>>>> children?
>>>>
>>>> To allow them to travel unaccompanied by an adult.
>>>
>>> The visual assessment above didn't specify any interaction with an
>>> accompanying adult.
>>
>> I've arrowed above where being accompanied by an adult was mentioned.
>>
>
> But you didn't mention them asking the adult to confirm the age, just
> looking at the child.
>

I didn't mention anything at all about how the age was verified, that was
someone else. But I did mention being accompanied by an adult, before the
age verification question was raised, and I was simply pointing out that
contrary to your assertion, it had been mentioned upthread.

>>>> For visitors, however, to save having to get one of those issued (to which
>>>> you would surely, surely, vociferously object),
>>>
>>> Only because the procedure is probably so bureaucratic you couldn't hope
>>> to get it done in five minutes while waiting for your luggage of come
>>> off the belt at the airport.
>>
>> Indeed not; postal submission with photo and proof of age required.
>
> That sort of thing is the Achilles Heel of many transport discount
> schemes (for tourists).

That's why TfL don't require it for tourists, then.

> I remember going to an Eastern European capital
> about ten years ago where one could buy a highly discounted weekly pass
> for trams and buses, but *only* in person from one kiosk in the Market
> Square several miles from my hotel (and first one had to ride from the
> airport to the hotel, and then on the to Market Square).
>
> It'd be a bit like TfL selling/topping-up Oyster cards only from one
> kiosk in Piccadilly Circus. (Well maybe not, London is a bigger place).
>

Tokyo metro multiple-day passes are only available from one kiosk in one
station. You have to pay normal fares to get there to buy your multiple-day
pass!

I don't, OTTOMH, remember why we got the multi-day pass rather than just
using the stored-value touch card; perhaps we'd decided it was cheaper than
the cumulative daily travel (no capping!).

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: Where to put my railcard on my Oyter card at Heathrow?

<wboZQw8EFwtiFAMl@perry.uk>

  copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=14028&group=uk.transport.london#14028

  copy link   Newsgroups: uk.railway uk.transport.london
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.goja.nl.eu.org!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Where to put my railcard on my Oyter card at Heathrow?
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2022 13:36:20 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
Lines: 127
Message-ID: <wboZQw8EFwtiFAMl@perry.uk>
References: <t8mshe$55r$2@dont-email.me> <icJtB8jHkAsiFAnc@perry.uk>
<t8p46s$gje$2@dont-email.me> <gNn9lnp+ADsiFAXv@perry.uk>
<t8ph7e$9ba$2@dont-email.me> <6dD7h+wvMFsiFA0v@perry.uk>
<t8pofj$59e$1@dont-email.me> <feTChK0vkHsiFAQz@perry.uk>
<t8qirl$rc0$1@dont-email.me> <GxM0axPQDWsiFAhZ@perry.uk>
<t8rtdo$oin$2@dont-email.me> <67LbosWMoasiFAGV@perry.uk>
<t8so37$muq$1@dont-email.me> <7UbrjgpNaqsiFAEX@perry.uk>
<g369bh11qcgot89kka095serstqr8sof04@4ax.com> <GiFEOnCxWWtiFAIw@perry.uk>
<t94084$25f$3@dont-email.me> <JK4HU4VHubtiFAaL@perry.uk>
<t954fg$it9$5@dont-email.me> <bkZjPg0CqttiFA7b@perry.uk>
<t96rl1$3hsph$2@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
X-Trace: individual.net XWrNhcWLWcUEM3ZzTp3W7wVFxdxxyVdYw4KWfjYIkRLaEHTOrJ
X-Orig-Path: perry.co.uk!roland
Cancel-Lock: sha1:pbydzhPcP0NeKXpw9NmIsczYalo=
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.07-M (<52l5fZdV$jhVf1U93hT62mJV+y>)
 by: Roland Perry - Sat, 25 Jun 2022 12:36 UTC

In message <t96rl1$3hsph$2@dont-email.me>, at 11:30:41 on Sat, 25 Jun
2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t954fg$it9$5@dont-email.me>, at 19:49:04 on Fri, 24 Jun
>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t94084$25f$3@dont-email.me>, at 09:30:44 on Fri, 24 Jun
>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <g369bh11qcgot89kka095serstqr8sof04@4ax.com>, at 17:48:09 on
>>>>>> Thu, 23 Jun 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Jun 2022 06:20:13 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In message <t8so37$muq$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:28:39 on Tue, 21 Jun
>>>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <t8rtdo$oin$2@dont-email.me>, at 07:53:28 on Tue, 21 Jun
>>>>>>>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heathrow is rather different, of course; they built and own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the private
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> station, until recently they ran all services to it;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, pardon? The Piccadilly Line has been running services to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it since
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3pm on 16 December 1977 [according to Wikipedia].
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We're talking about the HEx/HConn/EL
>>>>>>>>>>>>> station/platforms/lines/services/staff, not LU.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Are we? Last time I looked Oyster was primarily a LU thing.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Talking of
>>>>>>>>>>>> which, are there any Oyster vending machines at Heathrow for
>>>>>>>>>>>> first-time
>>>>>>>>>>>> arrivals to get one?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, but they're not really needed, as contactless is easier.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's hugely non-transparent (aka a blank cheque), and children don't
>>>>>>>>>> tend to have one.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If they're age 10 or younger they travel free if accompanied by
>>>>>>>>> an adult.
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>
>>>>>>>> Do you have to lift them over the gatelines, or will the staff
>>>>>>>>beep them
>>>>>>>> through. How can the staff verify their age?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The same as done on e.g. buses and trains for 3, 5 or whatever-year
>>>>>>> olds for decades - a quick visual assessment via the Mk.1 eyeball. If
>>>>>>> in doubt ask for age and date of birth which tends to screen out a
>>>>>>> fair proportion of "offenders".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why then do they issue 5-10 photocards to London residents who are
>>>>>> children?
>>>>>
>>>>> To allow them to travel unaccompanied by an adult.
>>>>
>>>> The visual assessment above didn't specify any interaction with an
>>>> accompanying adult.
>>>
>>> I've arrowed above where being accompanied by an adult was mentioned.
>>
>> But you didn't mention them asking the adult to confirm the age, just
>> looking at the child.
>
>I didn't mention anything at all about how the age was verified, that was
>someone else.

Maybe not confuse the situation by fighting someone else's battle then.

>But I did mention being accompanied by an adult, before the
>age verification question was raised, and I was simply pointing out that
>contrary to your assertion, it had been mentioned upthread.

But the point here is does the barrier assistant ask the adult how old
the children are, and accept the answer without question, or something
else.

>>>>> For visitors, however, to save having to get one of those issued (to which
>>>>> you would surely, surely, vociferously object),
>>>>
>>>> Only because the procedure is probably so bureaucratic you couldn't hope
>>>> to get it done in five minutes while waiting for your luggage of come
>>>> off the belt at the airport.
>>>
>>> Indeed not; postal submission with photo and proof of age required.
>>
>> That sort of thing is the Achilles Heel of many transport discount
>> schemes (for tourists).
>
>That's why TfL don't require it for tourists, then.

They are getting better, but first issue Oysters were only given to
people who could specify a UK address; and phase 1 of the Contactless CC
scheme didn't accept very many foreign cards. And you still can't get a
card for a youngster to travel independently for free/discount, on
demand.

>> I remember going to an Eastern European capital
>> about ten years ago where one could buy a highly discounted weekly pass
>> for trams and buses, but *only* in person from one kiosk in the Market
>> Square several miles from my hotel (and first one had to ride from the
>> airport to the hotel, and then on the to Market Square).
>>
>> It'd be a bit like TfL selling/topping-up Oyster cards only from one
>> kiosk in Piccadilly Circus. (Well maybe not, London is a bigger place).
>
>Tokyo metro multiple-day passes are only available from one kiosk in one
>station. You have to pay normal fares to get there to buy your multiple-day
>pass!

The one thing I didn't approve of with Nottingham City Transport was
their carnet-card was only available from one shop on the Market Square.
And of course you had to pay that fare in addition to using one all-day
ticket off the carnet for the rest of that day.

>I don't, OTTOMH, remember why we got the multi-day pass rather than just
>using the stored-value touch card; perhaps we'd decided it was cheaper than
>the cumulative daily travel (no capping!).
--
Roland Perry


aus+uk / uk.transport.london / Re: Where to put my railcard on my Oyter card at Heathrow?

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.81
clearnet tor