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aus+uk / uk.transport.london / Re: Mainline trains in Heathrow

SubjectAuthor
* Mainline trains in HeathrowRecliner
`* Mainline trains in HeathrowMuttley
 `* Mainline trains in HeathrowAnna Noyd-Dryver
  +- Mainline trains in HeathrowRecliner
  `* Mainline trains in HeathrowMuttley
   `- Mainline trains in HeathrowAnna Noyd-Dryver

1
Mainline trains in Heathrow

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Subject: Mainline trains in Heathrow
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 by: Recliner - Fri, 1 Jul 2022 12:54 UTC

I took a trip to Heathrow a couple of days ago, to see how the Elizabeth Line and Heathrow Express co-exist. In a
nutshell, little has changed since the Elizabeth Line officially started in May, with the Heathrow Airport and HEx
trains still mainly referring to TfL Rail, not the Elizabeth Line.

But here's 20 observations:

1. I started at Greenford, taking the little diesel shuttle to West Ealing. The 165 dawdled along, but still ran on
time. It takes about 9 minutes for the 2.5 mile journey. The 2-car GWR train nevertheless has a full disabled toilet,
unlike the Elizabeth Line trains that took its path from West Ealing to Paddington.

2. The Greenford shuttle seems to connect well with the Elizabeth Line trains at West Ealing (cross-platform to London,
over the footbridge to the west).

3. I could see no sign of any prep work to install charging facilities at West Ealing for the 'new' battery 230001 that
will replace the 165.
<https://www.modernrailways.com/article/vivarails-battery-230-greenford-branch>

4. Hayes & Harlington station seems particularly busy. No doubt, some of these are people travelling from London
specifically to visit the area, but I suspect that many others are actually going to Heathrow, but are switching to
buses for the last leg of the journey, probably to save money. The train+bus trip costs £5.05 (£3.40+£1.65) vs £10.80
for the Elizabeth Line all the way from Paddington to Heathrow. Of course, there may be some who work in the Heathrow
area, but not in the terminals themselves (eg, in airport hotels), so a local bus from H&H might be a better way of
getting there, as well as much cheaper.

5. There are clear announcements on the EL train to T4 about changing at Heathrow Central to get to T5. Passengers who
are changing are told to stand behind the blue line (which marks the back half of the platform).

6. The trains to T4 or T5 are shown on the PIS purely by destination, not the TOC, but anyone who cares can work it out
by the number of coaches (4 or 8 is HEx, 9 is EL):
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52186540050/in/album-72177720300228545/>

7. There is a sign in the platform describing the two services to London, but with no clue about the price difference:
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52185033562/in/album-72177720300228545/>
[Note that the sign hasn't been updated to refer to the Elizabeth Line.]

8. There is obviously a single gateline for all passengers in Heathrow, whichever train they use. People simply
travelling between terminals need to get a free cardboard ticket from the machine, which will work the gates.

9. The TVMs in the rail stations will sell HEx or EL tickets, including Travelcards and Oyster cards (you can choose how
many you want, and how much cash to load up on them). Oyster cards can also be used to purchase tickets (so, I guess you
could use an Oyster card to buy more Oyster cards). In addition to local credit cards and Oyster, they also take
Japanese (JCB) cards, and work in 15 languages. Of course, foreigners without much English will find that multilingual
support soon runs out. In addition, both trains will take Oyster and contactless.

10. The line diagram in the terminal has been updated:
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52185033692/in/album-72177720300228545/>
[Note that the Piccadilly line link to Heathrow isn't shown.]

11. The 387 HEx Express class seats are as hard as the 345 seats, but are a slightly different shape, so some people
might prefer one over the other. The interior of the 387s seems darker and more claustrophobic, with darker all-purple
upholstery.

12. The 387s have dedicated luggage stack, the 345s don't, but they have more floor space. Many of the seats in the 345s
are longitudinal, but there are a few transverse seats. Both have WiFi, but the EL WiFi is less onerous to connect to
(no need to register or log in, if you've connected on a previous journey). Only the HEx 387s have plug and USB charging
sockets.

13. The HEx trains still refer to TfL Rail, not the EL, even in the electronic displays:
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52186064728/in/album-72177720300228545/>

14. There is a useful journey choices info area in the terminal (all strictly in English only, of course):
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52185033592/in/album-72177720300228545/>
including the rather more complicated buses:
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52186064718/in/album-72177720300228545/>

15. The departures board to central London focuses mainly on the destination (always Paddington for the moment), and
hardly mentions the TOC:
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52186054401/in/album-72177720300228545/>

16. There is a joint timetable in the station, but no mention of the Tube:
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52186054546/in/album-72177720300228545/>

17. On the HEx train from T5 to Heathrow T2-3, there isn't a clear enough warning to change to the EL for the
intermediate stops or to save money.

18. The train to Paddington passes by the reversing 345s from the core — if only they ran through!
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52186304134/in/album-72177720300228545/>

19. The Heathrow tunnels provide a smooth ride, but not nearly as good as the EL core.

20. The EL train doors don't open automatically, unlike in the core tunnels. It seems, if there are no PEDs, then you
must press the Door Open button.

Re: Mainline trains in Heathrow

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Subject: Re: Mainline trains in Heathrow
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 16:10:13 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Fri, 1 Jul 2022 16:10 UTC

On Fri, 01 Jul 2022 13:54:12 +0100
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>I took a trip to Heathrow a couple of days ago, to see how the Elizabeth Line
>and Heathrow Express co-exist. In a
>nutshell, little has changed since the Elizabeth Line officially started in
>May, with the Heathrow Airport and HEx
>trains still mainly referring to TfL Rail, not the Elizabeth Line.
>
>But here's 20 observations:
>
>1. I started at Greenford, taking the little diesel shuttle to West Ealing.
>The 165 dawdled along, but still ran on
>time. It takes about 9 minutes for the 2.5 mile journey. The 2-car GWR train

Thats impressively slow. Is it a parliamentary service?

>10. The line diagram in the terminal has been updated:
><https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52185033692/in/album-72177720300228545/
>>
> [Note that the Piccadilly line link to Heathrow isn't shown.]

Naturally. Wouldn't want tourists taking the cheap option when TfL can fleece
them instead.

Re: Mainline trains in Heathrow

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From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Mainline trains in Heathrow
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 16:51:32 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Fri, 1 Jul 2022 16:51 UTC

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Jul 2022 13:54:12 +0100
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I took a trip to Heathrow a couple of days ago, to see how the Elizabeth Line
>> and Heathrow Express co-exist. In a
>> nutshell, little has changed since the Elizabeth Line officially started in
>> May, with the Heathrow Airport and HEx
>> trains still mainly referring to TfL Rail, not the Elizabeth Line.
>>
>> But here's 20 observations:
>>
>> 1. I started at Greenford, taking the little diesel shuttle to West Ealing.
>> The 165 dawdled along, but still ran on
>> time. It takes about 9 minutes for the 2.5 mile journey. The 2-car GWR train
>
> Thats impressively slow. Is it a parliamentary service?
>

It runs half-hourly all day except Sundays.

It's a slow line. 1/2 mile at 20mph out of West Ealing to the first
station, 40mph speed limit through the other two intermediate stations
station, 1/2 mile of 15mph into Greenford. The return journey has an extra
1/2 mile of 20mph approaching West Ealing.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: Mainline trains in Heathrow

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Mainline trains in Heathrow
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 20:23:30 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Recliner - Fri, 1 Jul 2022 20:23 UTC

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 01 Jul 2022 13:54:12 +0100
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I took a trip to Heathrow a couple of days ago, to see how the Elizabeth Line
>>> and Heathrow Express co-exist. In a
>>> nutshell, little has changed since the Elizabeth Line officially started in
>>> May, with the Heathrow Airport and HEx
>>> trains still mainly referring to TfL Rail, not the Elizabeth Line.
>>>
>>> But here's 20 observations:
>>>
>>> 1. I started at Greenford, taking the little diesel shuttle to West Ealing.
>>> The 165 dawdled along, but still ran on
>>> time. It takes about 9 minutes for the 2.5 mile journey. The 2-car GWR train
>>
>> Thats impressively slow. Is it a parliamentary service?
>>
>
> It runs half-hourly all day except Sundays.
>
> It's a slow line. 1/2 mile at 20mph out of West Ealing to the first
> station, 40mph speed limit through the other two intermediate stations
> station, 1/2 mile of 15mph into Greenford. The return journey has an extra
> 1/2 mile of 20mph approaching West Ealing.

Thanks, I wondered how low the line speeds were.

Re: Mainline trains in Heathrow

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Mainline trains in Heathrow
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Sat, 2 Jul 2022 10:20 UTC

On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 16:51:32 -0000 (UTC)
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 01 Jul 2022 13:54:12 +0100
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I took a trip to Heathrow a couple of days ago, to see how the Elizabeth
>Line
>>> and Heathrow Express co-exist. In a
>>> nutshell, little has changed since the Elizabeth Line officially started in
>>> May, with the Heathrow Airport and HEx
>>> trains still mainly referring to TfL Rail, not the Elizabeth Line.
>>>
>>> But here's 20 observations:
>>>
>>> 1. I started at Greenford, taking the little diesel shuttle to West Ealing.
>>> The 165 dawdled along, but still ran on
>>> time. It takes about 9 minutes for the 2.5 mile journey. The 2-car GWR train
>
>>
>> Thats impressively slow. Is it a parliamentary service?
>>
>
>It runs half-hourly all day except Sundays.
>
>It's a slow line. 1/2 mile at 20mph out of West Ealing to the first
>station, 40mph speed limit through the other two intermediate stations
>station, 1/2 mile of 15mph into Greenford. The return journey has an extra
>1/2 mile of 20mph approaching West Ealing.

Is that poor track condition or just to avoid other services?

Re: Mainline trains in Heathrow

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From: ann...@noyd-dryver.com (Anna Noyd-Dryver)
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Subject: Re: Mainline trains in Heathrow
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 13:36:28 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Anna Noyd-Dryver - Sat, 2 Jul 2022 13:36 UTC

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022 16:51:32 -0000 (UTC)
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 01 Jul 2022 13:54:12 +0100
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I took a trip to Heathrow a couple of days ago, to see how the Elizabeth
>> Line
>>>> and Heathrow Express co-exist. In a
>>>> nutshell, little has changed since the Elizabeth Line officially started in
>>>> May, with the Heathrow Airport and HEx
>>>> trains still mainly referring to TfL Rail, not the Elizabeth Line.
>>>>
>>>> But here's 20 observations:
>>>>
>>>> 1. I started at Greenford, taking the little diesel shuttle to West Ealing.
>>>> The 165 dawdled along, but still ran on
>>>> time. It takes about 9 minutes for the 2.5 mile journey. The 2-car GWR train
>>
>>>
>>> Thats impressively slow. Is it a parliamentary service?
>>>
>>
>> It runs half-hourly all day except Sundays.
>>
>> It's a slow line. 1/2 mile at 20mph out of West Ealing to the first
>> station, 40mph speed limit through the other two intermediate stations
>> station, 1/2 mile of 15mph into Greenford. The return journey has an extra
>> 1/2 mile of 20mph approaching West Ealing.
>
> Is that poor track condition or just to avoid other services?
>
>
>

The 15 and the 20 at the ends are because of the sharp curves at the
junctions and crossovers to the bay platforms. The 40 is probably because
it's always only ever been a short length of track linking two main lines;
the intermediate stations are only 1/2 and 3/4 miles apart and you probably
won't get up to much more than 40 between those stops on a class 16x
anyway. The additional 1/2 mile of 20mph in the up direction, I don't know.

Anna Noyd-Dryver


aus+uk / uk.transport.london / Re: Mainline trains in Heathrow

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