England squad: Joe Root (capt), James Anderson, James Bracey, Stuart Broad, Rory Burns, Zak Crawley, Ben Foakes, Dan Lawrence, Jack Leach, Craig Overton, Ollie Pope, Ollie Robinson, Dom Sibley, Olly Stone, Mark Wood

Stokes in quarantine after playing in the Indian T20.

Good to see Bracey and Robinson given a go.

England really do have to decide soon what to do with Broard and Anderson

Amusing to see four keepers in the squad.
RH

In message <4480a139-35ce-46f4-8209-88808125b10fn@googlegroups.com>, RH
<anywhere156@gmail.com> writes
>
>England squad: Joe Root (capt), James Anderson, James Bracey, Stuart
>Broad, Rory Burns, Zak Crawley, Ben Foakes, Dan Lawrence, Jack Leach,
>Craig Overton, Ollie Pope, Ollie Robinson, Dom Sibley, Olly Stone, Mark
>Wood
>
>Stokes in quarantine after playing in the Indian T20.

I thought he was unable to play in the IPL because he picked up an
injury, and so has been back in the UK for some time. Presumably he's
still injured, as he hasn't yet been seen in the Championship. But
Buttler and a number of other players who were in the IPL weren't
considered because, although just out of quarantine, it was thought that
they needed some time out of the bubble. (Hopefully by the time of the
series against India, a bubble will no longer be thought necessary.)

>
>Good to see Bracey and Robinson given a go.
>
>England really do have to decide soon what to do with Broard and Anderson

I'll be surprised if they don't both go to Australia. Thanks to central
contracts, both have far fewer "miles on the clock" than pace bowlers of
their age would have had in days gone by, and if anything they seem less
injury-prone than the younger bowlers. One imagines that Anderson can't
keep going for too much longer, but Broad at 34 might well have another
two or three years at top level.

>
>Amusing to see four keepers in the squad.
>RH

If you add Buttler and Bairstow, England have six! Though I can't see
either Burns or Pope being England's keeper other than in an emergency
(as happened to Pope on our last tour of NZ).
--
John Hall "Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always
pays off now." Anon

On 18/05/2021 16:38, John Hall wrote:
>> Amusing to see four  keepers in the squad.
>> RH
> If you add Buttler and Bairstow, England have six!

The days when that would have been amazing are long since
gone. The general expectation now is that WKs /have/ to be able
to hold their place in a county side as batsmen. IOW, turning
that around, roughly 1/6 or 1/7 of county "specialist" batsmen
are WKs. So if you pick a squad of 15, including [eg] your seven
best bats, plus six specialist bowlers, plus two WKs [chosen as
WKs, not as Test-class batsmen], then you're very likely to
have a county WK among your batsmen, and a second would not
be surprising, total four. If you extend to all the other Test
or near-Test batsmen who for whatever reason are not in the
current squad, another one or two WKs is again not a surprise,
more an expectation.
You could make a similar case for the bowlers, except
that it is still normal, at both county and Test level, to pick
bowlers who are rabbits, as better bowling typically outweighs
a few extra runs. Better batting is a bonus.

--
Andy Walker, Nottingham.
Andy's music pages: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music
Composer of the day: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music/Composers/Schumann

On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 5:25:51 PM UTC+1, Andy Walker wrote:
> On 18/05/2021 16:38, John Hall wrote:
> >> Amusing to see four keepers in the squad.
> >> RH
> > If you add Buttler and Bairstow, England have six!
> The days when that would have been amazing are long since
> gone. The general expectation now is that WKs /have/ to be able
> to hold their place in a county side as batsmen. IOW, turning
> that around, roughly 1/6 or 1/7 of county "specialist" batsmen
> are WKs. So if you pick a squad of 15, including [eg] your seven
> best bats, plus six specialist bowlers, plus two WKs [chosen as
> WKs, not as Test-class batsmen], then you're very likely to
> have a county WK among your batsmen, and a second would not
> be surprising, total four. If you extend to all the other Test
> or near-Test batsmen who for whatever reason are not in the
> current squad, another one or two WKs is again not a surprise,
> more an expectation.
>
> You could make a similar case for the bowlers, except
> that it is still normal, at both county and Test level, to pick
> bowlers who are rabbits, as better bowling typically outweighs
> a few extra runs. Better batting is a bonus.
>
> --
> Andy Walker, Nottingham.
> Andy's music pages: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music
> Composer of the day: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music/Composers/Schumann

SIGH. Keepers who could bat well enough to hold a county batting spot down have been in evidence for yonks.

Take England's Test keepers who played more than the odd Test we have

Lyttleton, Tylecote, Harry Wood, Storer, Lilley, EJ Smith , Strudwick, Duckworth, George Brown, Ames, Gibb, Evans, Spooner, Swetman, Parks, Murray, Millman, Bob Raylor, Knott,.

That takes up to around 1980.

Of those only Strudwick, Duckworth and B|Ob Taylor were obviously not worth their place in a county side just as batsman and Wood and Swetman were borderline.

Most of the Tests England played before 1980 had a wicket keeper who could bat well enough to be a county batsman. RH

On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 4:43:30 PM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
> In message <4480a139-35ce-46f4...@googlegroups.com>, RH
> <anywh...@gmail.com> writes
> >
> >England squad: Joe Root (capt), James Anderson, James Bracey, Stuart
> >Broad, Rory Burns, Zak Crawley, Ben Foakes, Dan Lawrence, Jack Leach,
> >Craig Overton, Ollie Pope, Ollie Robinson, Dom Sibley, Olly Stone, Mark
> >Wood
> >
> >Stokes in quarantine after playing in the Indian T20.
> I thought he was unable to play in the IPL because he picked up an
> injury, and so has been back in the UK for some time. Presumably he's
> still injured, as he hasn't yet been seen in the Championship. But

i thought both of them had broken fingers. and neither of them have
played any cricket for some time so i'm surprised sibleys included.
i know wisden made him one of their POTYs but surely we've all
seen enough of him and Burns.

I havnt seen much of bracey but at least he looks fairly orthodox
even if he is another lefty. Without stokes i'm thinking they will
probably play 6 batters and foakes. I wouldnt have either Burns
or Sibley, but then the top 6 would look very inexperienced against
a very good NZ bowling attack.

so i spose it could be

burns
crawley
lawrence
root
pope
bracey
foakes
robinson/overton
stone/wood
leach
anderson/broad

i would play broad and anderson together, but england seem reluctant to do this,
and this time it seems reasonable to give 1 of robinson or overton a go. I think
they should give robinson plenty of chances against NZ and India to see if he
is a test quality bowler. And I would prefer Stone for the same reason.
Like Robinson, Overton is killing them in the CC, but is he actually a better
bowler than a few years ago?

> Buttler and a number of other players who were in the IPL weren't
> considered because, although just out of quarantine, it was thought that
> they needed some time out of the bubble. (Hopefully by the time of the
> series against India, a bubble will no longer be thought necessary.)
> >

that might depend on the indian variant which is spreading rapidly.
I think it would be unwise to think the worst is over.
unless its a frightener to make the anti vaxxers change their minds.

> >Good to see Bracey and Robinson given a go.
> >
> >England really do have to decide soon what to do with Broard and Anderson
> I'll be surprised if they don't both go to Australia. Thanks to central
> contracts, both have far fewer "miles on the clock" than pace bowlers of
> their age would have had in days gone by, and if anything they seem less
> injury-prone than the younger bowlers. One imagines that Anderson can't
> keep going for too much longer, but Broad at 34 might well have another
> two or three years at top level.

and broad just said hes not retiring, at least not until hes married the popstar.

mike

On Tue, 18 May 2021 15:13:23 -0700 (PDT), mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>
>> Buttler and a number of other players who were in the IPL weren't
>> considered because, although just out of quarantine, it was thought that
>> they needed some time out of the bubble. (Hopefully by the time of the
>> series against India, a bubble will no longer be thought necessary.)
>> >
>
>that might depend on the indian variant which is spreading rapidly.
>I think it would be unwise to think the worst is over.
>unless its a frightener to make the anti vaxxers change their minds.

The second jab gave me a hard time. I was really sick after getting
it. The nurse said that there might be another injection in the Autmn.
I hope not.

max.it

>
>> >Good to see Bracey and Robinson given a go.
>> >
>> >England really do have to decide soon what to do with Broard and Anderson
>> I'll be surprised if they don't both go to Australia. Thanks to central
>> contracts, both have far fewer "miles on the clock" than pace bowlers of
>> their age would have had in days gone by, and if anything they seem less
>> injury-prone than the younger bowlers. One imagines that Anderson can't
>> keep going for too much longer, but Broad at 34 might well have another
>> two or three years at top level.
>
>and broad just said hes not retiring, at least not until hes married the popstar.
>
>mike

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Wednesday, May 19, 2021 at 2:25:51 AM UTC+10, Andy Walker wrote:
> On 18/05/2021 16:38, John Hall wrote:
> >> Amusing to see four keepers in the squad.
> >> RH
> > If you add Buttler and Bairstow, England have six!
> The days when that would have been amazing are long since
> gone. The general expectation now is that WKs /have/ to be able
> to hold their place in a county side as batsmen. IOW, turning
> that around, roughly 1/6 or 1/7 of county "specialist" batsmen
> are WKs.

By necessity. 1/6 of a Test team doesn't have to be keeper-batsmen.

On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 11:57:44 PM UTC+1, max.it wrote:
> On Tue, 18 May 2021 15:13:23 -0700 (PDT), mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Buttler and a number of other players who were in the IPL weren't
> >> considered because, although just out of quarantine, it was thought that
> >> they needed some time out of the bubble. (Hopefully by the time of the
> >> series against India, a bubble will no longer be thought necessary.)
> >> >
> >
> >that might depend on the indian variant which is spreading rapidly.
> >I think it would be unwise to think the worst is over.
> >unless its a frightener to make the anti vaxxers change their minds.
> The second jab gave me a hard time. I was really sick after getting
> it.

'course you were, Lazarus, 'course you were...RH

The nurse said that there might be another injection in the Autmn.
> I hope not.
>
> max.it

On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 9:29:38 PM UTC+4, RH wrote:
> >
> SIGH. Keepers who could bat well enough to hold a county batting spot down have been in evidence for yonks.
>
> Take England's Test keepers who played more than the odd Test we have
>
> Lyttleton, Tylecote, Harry Wood, Storer, Lilley, EJ Smith , Strudwick, Duckworth, George Brown, Ames, Gibb, Evans, Spooner, Swetman, Parks, Murray, Millman, Bob Raylor, Knott,.

Bob Taylor will be embarrassed to know that someone thinks of him as you do. Very classy with the gloves but a largely inept batter.

In message <87ed8d0a-f43e-4066-bd26-a5bc26d64cd7n@googlegroups.com>,
chandelle <rama@samura.ai> writes
>On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 9:29:38 PM UTC+4, RH wrote:
>> >
>> SIGH. Keepers who could bat well enough to hold a county batting spot
>>down have been in evidence for yonks.
>>
>> Take England's Test keepers who played more than the odd Test we have
>>
>> Lyttleton, Tylecote, Harry Wood, Storer, Lilley, EJ Smith ,
>>Strudwick, Duckworth, George Brown, Ames, Gibb, Evans, Spooner,
>>Swetman, Parks, Murray, Millman, Bob Raylor, Knott,.
>
>
>Bob Taylor will be embarrassed to know that someone thinks of him as
>you do. Very classy with the gloves but a largely inept batter.
>

The same goes for Strudwick. His career batting average was 10.88, and
in 835 innings he reached 50 just 9 times. It's been suggested that,
given that he was generally agreed to be the best keeper in the country,
he would have played more for England had he been a better batsman.
--
John Hall "Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always
pays off now." Anon

On Wednesday, May 19, 2021 at 4:05:00 PM UTC+1, chandelle wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 9:29:38 PM UTC+4, RH wrote:
> > >
> > SIGH. Keepers who could bat well enough to hold a county batting spot down have been in evidence for yonks.
> >
> > Take England's Test keepers who played more than the odd Test we have
> >
> > Lyttleton, Tylecote, Harry Wood, Storer, Lilley, EJ Smith , Strudwick, Duckworth, George Brown, Ames, Gibb, Evans, Spooner, Swetman, Parks, Murray, Millman, Bob Raylor, Knott,.
> Bob Taylor will be embarrassed to know that someone thinks of him as you do. Very classy with the gloves but a largely inept batter.

What are you on about? I wrote this:
"Of those only Strudwick, Duckworth and B|Ob Taylor were obviously not worth their place in a county side just as batsman and Wood and Swetman were borderline." His FC and Test stat are:

Test 57 83 12 1156 97 16.28
FC 639 880 167 12065 100 16.92

RH

On Wednesday, May 19, 2021 at 3:29:38 AM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 5:25:51 PM UTC+1, Andy Walker wrote:
> > On 18/05/2021 16:38, John Hall wrote:
> > >> Amusing to see four keepers in the squad.
> > >> RH
> > > If you add Buttler and Bairstow, England have six!
> > The days when that would have been amazing are long since
> > gone. The general expectation now is that WKs /have/ to be able
> > to hold their place in a county side as batsmen. IOW, turning
> > that around, roughly 1/6 or 1/7 of county "specialist" batsmen
> > are WKs. So if you pick a squad of 15, including [eg] your seven
> > best bats, plus six specialist bowlers, plus two WKs [chosen as
> > WKs, not as Test-class batsmen], then you're very likely to
> > have a county WK among your batsmen, and a second would not
> > be surprising, total four. If you extend to all the other Test
> > or near-Test batsmen who for whatever reason are not in the
> > current squad, another one or two WKs is again not a surprise,
> > more an expectation.
> >
> > You could make a similar case for the bowlers, except
> > that it is still normal, at both county and Test level, to pick
> > bowlers who are rabbits, as better bowling typically outweighs
> > a few extra runs. Better batting is a bonus.
> >
> SIGH. Keepers who could bat well enough to hold a county batting spot down have been in evidence for yonks.
>
> Take England's Test keepers who played more than the odd Test we have
>
> Lyttleton, Tylecote, Harry Wood, Storer, Lilley, EJ Smith , Strudwick, Duckworth, George Brown, Ames, Gibb, Evans, Spooner, Swetman, Parks, Murray, Millman, Bob Raylor, Knott,.
>
> That takes up to around 1980.
>
> Of those only Strudwick, Duckworth and B|Ob Taylor were obviously not worth their place in a county side just as batsman and Wood and Swetman were borderline.
>
> Most of the Tests England played before 1980 had a wicket keeper who could bat well enough to be a county batsman. RH

Lyttleton 4 tests, seems like he didn't play more than the odd test...
Tylecote 6 tests, ditto
Harry Wood 4 tests, 1 100 and 17 50s in over 400 innings, averaging under 17. Stretching things to say he was even borderline to play as a specialist batsman.
Storer with a first class average of 28 isn't brilliant either, although maybe he'd scrape into a side among the last couple to be picked
Lilley is borderline at best
Tiger Smith, average 22, 20 100s from over 800 innings. Not a hope in the era he played in.
Not sure Brown would have held down a spot as a batsman if he didn't bowl, average 26.
Ames definitely
Gibb is iffy for the period, 19 100s from 479 innings
Evans, 752 first class innings, 7 100s, average 21 is a no.
Spooner 12 100s from 580 innings...
Swetman is a borderline specialist batman? average 19, 2 100s from 411 innings playing from the 50s to the 70s
Parks is yes
Murray average 23, 16 100s from 936 innings 50s through 70s...
Millman, average 18, 3 100s from 471 innings

Your idea of "worth their spot as a specialist bat" is a long way off ...

On Wednesday, May 19, 2021 at 4:45:48 PM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
> In message <87ed8d0a-f43e-4066...@googlegroups.com>,
> chandelle <ra...@samura.ai> writes
> >On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 9:29:38 PM UTC+4, RH wrote:
> >> >
> >> SIGH. Keepers who could bat well enough to hold a county batting spot
> >>down have been in evidence for yonks.
> >>
> >> Take England's Test keepers who played more than the odd Test we have
> >>
> >> Lyttleton, Tylecote, Harry Wood, Storer, Lilley, EJ Smith ,
> >>Strudwick, Duckworth, George Brown, Ames, Gibb, Evans, Spooner,
> >>Swetman, Parks, Murray, Millman, Bob Raylor, Knott,.
> >
> >
> >Bob Taylor will be embarrassed to know that someone thinks of him as
> >you do. Very classy with the gloves but a largely inept batter.
> >
> The same goes for Strudwick. His career batting average was 10.88, and
> in 835 innings he reached 50 just 9 times. It's been suggested that,
> given that he was generally agreed to be the best keeper in the country,
> he would have played more for England had he been a better batsman.
> --
> John Hall "Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always
> pays off now." Anon

The period 1924 to 1931 was the only time in the entire history of Test cricket where very week batsmen (Strudwick and Duckworth ) dominated the election of keepers for England . RH

On Wed, 19 May 2021 09:30:21 -0700 (PDT), Hamish Laws
<hamish.laws@gmail.com> wrote:

>Your idea of "worth their spot as a specialist bat" is a long way off ...

.... what normal people would mean by that. But you have to remember
that he imbecile rates batsmen by the purity of their technique as
viewed through 1950s eyes. Whether it produces useful results is
neither here nor there on Planet Imbecile.

Cheers,

Mike

On Wednesday, May 19, 2021 at 5:30:22 PM UTC+1, Hamish Laws wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 19, 2021 at 3:29:38 AM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 5:25:51 PM UTC+1, Andy Walker wrote:
> > > On 18/05/2021 16:38, John Hall wrote:
> > > >> Amusing to see four keepers in the squad.
> > > >> RH
> > > > If you add Buttler and Bairstow, England have six!
> > > The days when that would have been amazing are long since
> > > gone. The general expectation now is that WKs /have/ to be able
> > > to hold their place in a county side as batsmen. IOW, turning
> > > that around, roughly 1/6 or 1/7 of county "specialist" batsmen
> > > are WKs. So if you pick a squad of 15, including [eg] your seven
> > > best bats, plus six specialist bowlers, plus two WKs [chosen as
> > > WKs, not as Test-class batsmen], then you're very likely to
> > > have a county WK among your batsmen, and a second would not
> > > be surprising, total four. If you extend to all the other Test
> > > or near-Test batsmen who for whatever reason are not in the
> > > current squad, another one or two WKs is again not a surprise,
> > > more an expectation.
> > >
> > > You could make a similar case for the bowlers, except
> > > that it is still normal, at both county and Test level, to pick
> > > bowlers who are rabbits, as better bowling typically outweighs
> > > a few extra runs. Better batting is a bonus.
> > >
> > SIGH. Keepers who could bat well enough to hold a county batting spot down have been in evidence for yonks.
> >
> > Take England's Test keepers who played more than the odd Test we have
> >
> > Lyttleton, Tylecote, Harry Wood, Storer, Lilley, EJ Smith , Strudwick, Duckworth, George Brown, Ames, Gibb, Evans, Spooner, Swetman, Parks, Murray, Millman, Bob Raylor, Knott,.
> >
> > That takes up to around 1980.
> >
> > Of those only Strudwick, Duckworth and B|Ob Taylor were obviously not worth their place in a county side just as batsman and Wood and Swetman were borderline.
> >
> > Most of the Tests England played before 1980 had a wicket keeper who could bat well enough to be a county batsman. RH
> Lyttleton 4 tests, seems like he didn't play more than the odd test...
> Tylecote 6 tests, ditto
> Harry Wood 4 tests, 1 100 and 17 50s in over 400 innings, averaging under 17. Stretching things to say he was even borderline to play as a specialist batsman.
> Storer with a first class average of 28 isn't brilliant either, although maybe he'd scrape into a side among the last couple to be picked
> Lilley is borderline at best
> Tiger Smith, average 22, 20 100s from over 800 innings. Not a hope in the era he played in.
> Not sure Brown would have held down a spot as a batsman if he didn't bowl, average 26.
> Ames definitely
> Gibb is iffy for the period, 19 100s from 479 innings
> Evans, 752 first class innings, 7 100s, average 21 is a no.
> Spooner 12 100s from 580 innings...
> Swetman is a borderline specialist batman? average 19, 2 100s from 411 innings playing from the 50s to the 70s
> Parks is yes
> Murray average 23, 16 100s from 936 innings 50s through 70s...
> Millman, average 18, 3 100s from 471 innings
>
> Your idea of "worth their spot as a specialist bat" is a long way off ...

All you are demonstrating is an ignorance of the much lower batting averages of those playing 3 day CC matches on uncovered pitches before pitch inspectors. It was not unusual in the 1950s for specialist batsmen (including openers) to average below 30. Some Test batsmen , eg Ken Taylor (career averages 26) and Doug Padgett (career average 28), had career averages of less than 30 RH

On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 11:57:44 PM UTC+1, max.it wrote:
> On Tue, 18 May 2021 15:13:23 -0700 (PDT), mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Buttler and a number of other players who were in the IPL weren't
> >> considered because, although just out of quarantine, it was thought that
> >> they needed some time out of the bubble. (Hopefully by the time of the
> >> series against India, a bubble will no longer be thought necessary.)
> >> >
> >
> >that might depend on the indian variant which is spreading rapidly.
> >I think it would be unwise to think the worst is over.
> >unless its a frightener to make the anti vaxxers change their minds.
> The second jab gave me a hard time. I was really sick after getting
> it. The nurse said that there might be another injection in the Autmn.
> I hope not.

which vax did u have? i know several people who were laid low for 3 days after
the first AZ jab. I wonder if the more jabs u have, the more worse the side
effects get. perhaps covid is natures revenge on man.

mike

On Wed, 19 May 2021 11:16:28 -0700 (PDT), mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 11:57:44 PM UTC+1, max.it wrote:
>> On Tue, 18 May 2021 15:13:23 -0700 (PDT), mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Buttler and a number of other players who were in the IPL weren't
>> >> considered because, although just out of quarantine, it was thought that
>> >> they needed some time out of the bubble. (Hopefully by the time of the
>> >> series against India, a bubble will no longer be thought necessary.)
>> >> >
>> >
>> >that might depend on the indian variant which is spreading rapidly.
>> >I think it would be unwise to think the worst is over.
>> >unless its a frightener to make the anti vaxxers change their minds.
>> The second jab gave me a hard time. I was really sick after getting
>> it. The nurse said that there might be another injection in the Autmn.
>> I hope not.
>
>which vax did u have? i know several people who were laid low for 3 days after
>the first AZ jab. I wonder if the more jabs u have, the more worse the side
>effects get. perhaps covid is natures revenge on man.
>
>mike

It was the AZ one for me both times.

max.it

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 19/05/2021 17:30, Hamish Laws wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 19, 2021 at 3:29:38 AM UTC+10, RH wrote:
[I wrote:]>>> [...] The general expectation now is that WKs /have/ to be able
>>> to hold their place in a county side as batsmen. [...]
>> SIGH. Keepers who could bat well enough to hold a county batting
>> spot down have been in evidence for yonks.

Unsurprisingly, Robert has misunderstood the thesis. I
didn't say that WKs capable of county-class batting used to be
rare, but that today those who aren't barely exist, whereas they
used to be common. Bearing in mind that many counties now also
have reserve WKs who could, and in some cases do, play as batsmen,
there must now be over 20, perhaps 25 or more, WK-batsmen, whereas
in the past it might have been a handful, perhaps four or five,
depending on how marginal you might want to be.

Next, considering that there are ~ 18 x 6, call it 100,
regular specialist batsmen [excluding bowling all-rounders], the
implication is that ~ 20-25% of county batsmen are also WKs
[whereas it used to be perhaps 4-5%]. Now pick your Test squad,
with perhaps 7 specialist batsmen, additional to your selected
WKs. You now have an /expectation/ of a further 1.4-1.7 WKs, so
two extra, four in total, would not be at all a surprise, whereas
it used to be ~ 0.3, and therefore quite rare for a chosen Test
batsman to be, by accident, also a county-class WK.

[Others can work out the effects on all this of the
overseas players.]

> [...]

[Much snippage of Hamish's article, on which I have no
particular comment.]

--
Andy Walker, Nottingham.
Andy's music pages: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music
Composer of the day: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music/Composers/Kotzwara

On Thu, 20 May 2021 01:59:41 +0100, Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 19/05/2021 17:30, Hamish Laws wrote:
>> On Wednesday, May 19, 2021 at 3:29:38 AM UTC+10, RH wrote:
>[I wrote:]>>> [...] The general expectation now is that WKs /have/ to be able
>>>> to hold their place in a county side as batsmen. [...]
>>> SIGH. Keepers who could bat well enough to hold a county batting
>>> spot down have been in evidence for yonks.
>
> Unsurprisingly, Robert has misunderstood the thesis. I
>didn't say that WKs capable of county-class batting used to be
>rare, but that today those who aren't barely exist, whereas they
>used to be common.

My old friend Peter Rochford played 113 innings in 80 matches over 8
seasons for Glos in the 1950s and averaged a princely 5.26. That would
be considered poor for a specialist bowler these days, and completely
unacceptable in a keeper.

He was the regular keeper for about three seasons,which he felt should
have been more because he was a much better keeper than Wilson who had
the gloves before him but was a decent bat and Etheridge who replaced
him for similar reasons. I hasten to add that I am merely passing on
Rochford's own opinion of his and others' prowess rather than claiming
he was the victim of some great injustice. (Frank McHugh, who bowled
to him and was an even worse bat with a career average of 2.63, didn't
entirely share Peter's view about how good he was, but he was a bit of
a miseryguts.)

Cheers,

Mike

On Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 1:59:46 AM UTC+1, Andy Walker wrote:
> On 19/05/2021 17:30, Hamish Laws wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 19, 2021 at 3:29:38 AM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> [I wrote:]>>> [...] The general expectation now is that WKs /have/ to be able
> >>> to hold their place in a county side as batsmen. [...]
> >> SIGH. Keepers who could bat well enough to hold a county batting
> >> spot down have been in evidence for yonks.
> Unsurprisingly, Robert has misunderstood the thesis. I
> didn't say that WKs capable of county-class batting used to be
> rare, but that today those who aren't barely exist, whereas they
> used to be common.

When exactly do you claim that rabbit wks were plentiful?

I will also address the question of what makes a county class batsman.

This list (which I am doing from memory) of regular specialist batsmen in the period 1950-1970 all have career averages of less than 30. That is no no means an exhausted list but it will give you an idea of thew numbers of specialist batsmen who averaged less than 30 in an extended career.

The list includes 3 players who played for England. See if you can spot them. RH

Derbyshire

Charlie lee
Ian Hall
M Page
Peter Gibbs
D Smith
Donald Carr
G Wyatt
A C Revill

Essex

Michael Bear
Gordon Barker
Geoff Smith

Glamorgan

Bernard Hedges

Gloucs

David Sheppard
Mike Bissex

Hants

Ingleby-McKenzie

Kent
A H Phebey
Alan Ealham

Lancs
Peter Marner
Brian Booth

Leics

Maurice Hallam
Dicky Bird

Mdd

S M Brown
Robert Gale
Ted Clark

Northants

Brian Reynolds
Mick Norman

Nott

Ron Giles
J D Clay
F W Stocks

Somerset

Dennis Silk
G Tordoff
Virgin
Mervyn Kitchen
Brian Roe

Surrey

Mike Willett
Brian Parsons
Tom Clark

Sussex

Richard Langridge
Alan Oakman

Wark

Robert Abberley
Norman Horner

Worcs

Dick Richardson
George Dews

Yorks
Ken Taylor
Doug Padgett

RH

In message <5e68b2f3-083b-480b-8fda-2a7a74b9723an@googlegroups.com>,
mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 11:57:44 PM UTC+1, max.it wrote:
>> On Tue, 18 May 2021 15:13:23 -0700 (PDT), mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Buttler and a number of other players who were in the IPL weren't
>> >> considered because, although just out of quarantine, it was thought that
>> >> they needed some time out of the bubble. (Hopefully by the time of the
>> >> series against India, a bubble will no longer be thought necessary.)
>> >> >
>> >
>> >that might depend on the indian variant which is spreading rapidly.
>> >I think it would be unwise to think the worst is over.
>> >unless its a frightener to make the anti vaxxers change their minds.
>> The second jab gave me a hard time. I was really sick after getting
>> it. The nurse said that there might be another injection in the Autmn.
>> I hope not.
>
>which vax did u have? i know several people who were laid low for 3 days after
>the first AZ jab. I wonder if the more jabs u have, the more worse the side
>effects get. perhaps covid is natures revenge on man.

In my case, I was achey and slightly feverish for about 12 hours after
having the AZ jab, but had no side-effects after the second beyond the
expected tenderness around the site of the jab for a few hours.
--
John Hall "Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always
pays off now." Anon

On Tue, 18 May 2021 23:57:39 +0100, max.it <max@tea.time> wrote:

>On Tue, 18 May 2021 15:13:23 -0700 (PDT), mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>> Buttler and a number of other players who were in the IPL weren't
>>> considered because, although just out of quarantine, it was thought that
>>> they needed some time out of the bubble. (Hopefully by the time of the
>>> series against India, a bubble will no longer be thought necessary.)
>>> >
>>
>>that might depend on the indian variant which is spreading rapidly.
>>I think it would be unwise to think the worst is over.
>>unless its a frightener to make the anti vaxxers change their minds.
>
>The second jab gave me a hard time. I was really sick after getting
>it. The nurse said that there might be another injection in the Autmn.
>I hope not.

I had Pfizer both times, resulting in slight soreness and 24 hours of
feeling tireder than usual.

Cheers,

Mike

On 20/05/2021 13:31, Mike Holmans wrote:
> On Tue, 18 May 2021 23:57:39 +0100, max.it <max@tea.time> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 18 May 2021 15:13:23 -0700 (PDT), mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> Buttler and a number of other players who were in the IPL weren't
>>>> considered because, although just out of quarantine, it was thought that
>>>> they needed some time out of the bubble. (Hopefully by the time of the
>>>> series against India, a bubble will no longer be thought necessary.)
>>>>>
>>>
>>> that might depend on the indian variant which is spreading rapidly.
>>> I think it would be unwise to think the worst is over.
>>> unless its a frightener to make the anti vaxxers change their minds.
>>
>> The second jab gave me a hard time. I was really sick after getting
>> it. The nurse said that there might be another injection in the Autmn.
>> I hope not.
>
> I had Pfizer both times, resulting in slight soreness and 24 hours of
> feeling tireder than usual.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mike
>
Similar here. After both jabs I had general aches and pains, but not for
long.
Steve Hague