Yesterday, Tesco's mentally-retarded staff sent me the invoice for an
order due for delivery later on in the day, from which I saw that, for
about the 6th or 7th time, they had substituted 4 x 400g for 4 x 800g
loaves, IOW only delivering half the amount of bread ordered, this
despite the accompanying instructions from myself clearly beginning
"SAME WEIGHT ...". As I can't get decent bread locally - I've
described the problems with that before here - I rang up and cancelled
the entire order, and spent from noon to 6pm driving to Inverness,
shopping, grabbing a meal, driving back, and filling the freezer etc.
To receive a delivery from them and store it only takes about half an
hour. Thanks for the time-wasting and extra expense, Tesco.

However, the real point at issue here is that there appeared to be no
WiFi at Tesco in Inverness, so I had to enable mobile data. Remembering
this later at home, I thought I had better check whether my PAYG needed
topping up.

When I launched the Three PAYG app on my phone, a message came-up saying
that it had been discontinued, and I should uninstall it and install
another app. So I did as instructed, only to find the new app is
"incompatible with my device", probably because it's running an old
version of Android. So now I have no easy means from my phablet of
managing my Three PAYG. Duh, two significant SNAFUs in one day!

I've tended to find Three's website obscure and unclear, but today I
gave it another go: "We've been updating our systems. My3 is now better
than ever, but you must re-register to access your account." So I go
through the tedious re-registration process, discovering along the way
that theirs is now another site that no longer works with Pale Moon so I
have to go through it all again in Firefox. When I access my account
details, important items like the address are missing, and I can't enter
them, it seems I have to ring them up to get them to do so. Further, I
have two phone numbers with Three which historically were given two
different account numbers, one for my phone, one for the data SIM in my
router, so, while I'm sorting out this pile of garbage, I'll try to do
it all at once. I try to go through the same re-registration process
for the Data SIM, but cannot register it because I already have the
phone account registered with the same details, while within the phone
account I can't see any way of registering an existing second number.
SNAFU #3 within 24 hours, and by now effectively a whole working day
wasted struggling with other people's errors.

FFS: Just *WHO* programs shit like this???!!! Just how far and wide
and long do they have to search to find people as incompetent as this???!!!

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 13:00:35 +0000
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:

> FFS: Just *WHO* programs shit like this???!!!

The same people who program most chatbots, and also self-service cash
registers.

--
Davey.

On 29/10/2023 13:00, Java Jive wrote:
> Yesterday, Tesco's mentally-retarded staff sent me the invoice for an
> order due for delivery later on in the day, from which I saw that, for
> about the 6th or 7th time, they had substituted 4 x 400g for 4 x 800g
> loaves, IOW only delivering half the amount of bread ordered, this
> despite the accompanying instructions from myself clearly beginning
> "SAME WEIGHT ...".  As I can't get decent bread locally  -  I've
> described the problems with that before here  -  I rang up and cancelled
> the entire order, and spent from noon to 6pm driving to Inverness,
> shopping, grabbing a meal, driving back, and filling the freezer etc. To
> receive a delivery from them and store it only takes about half an
> hour.  Thanks for the time-wasting and extra expense, Tesco.
>
Silly me, I would have rung up and asked them to add another 4 x 400g
loaves to the order.

On 29/10/2023 16:49, Davey wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 13:00:35 +0000
> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> FFS: Just *WHO* programs shit like this???!!!
>
> The same people who program most chatbots, and also self-service cash
> registers.
>
Or car park ticket machines and leave auto-repeat on with a fractional
second delay.

How many people have even two sequentially repeated characters where
that would *ever* be anything than a trap for the unwary?

Cheers, T i m

On 29/10/2023 17:17, MikeS wrote:
>
> On 29/10/2023 13:00, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> Yesterday, Tesco's mentally-retarded staff sent me the invoice for an
>> order due for delivery later on in the day, from which I saw that, for
>> about the 6th or 7th time, they had substituted 4 x 400g for 4 x 800g
>> loaves, IOW only delivering half the amount of bread ordered, this
>> despite the accompanying instructions from myself clearly beginning
>> "SAME WEIGHT ...".  As I can't get decent bread locally  -  I've
>> described the problems with that before here  -  I rang up and
>> cancelled the entire order, and spent from noon to 6pm driving to
>> Inverness, shopping, grabbing a meal, driving back, and filling the
>> freezer etc. To receive a delivery from them and store it only takes
>> about half an hour.  Thanks for the time-wasting and extra expense,
>> Tesco.
>
> Silly me, I would have rung up and asked them to add another 4 x 400g
> loaves to the order.

Doesn't work like that - you can't change an order after 23:46 the
previous evening. Thereafter, you're at the mercy of the picker, who
may, or may not, have a brain-cell or two, and, even if they have, may,
or may not, understand English as their first language.

As I say, this has happened before ...

On one occasion before they started sending the invoices with the
substitution details in advance (an innovation within the last year or
so), I refused the bread part of the order because the substitution
chosen was off the tissue-paper white bread variety, and, immediately
after stowing the rest, drove all the way to the store, where I found on
the shelves enough bread of the type ordered to have met my own order
and plenty more. So I purchased the missing bread, checked out, and
demanded to speak to a manager, whom I asked why, given all this bread
on the shelves, my order was short. She had a rather shocked
expression, apologised, said that perhaps there hadn't been when the
order was picked, and that she'd look into it.

On another occasion, as yesterday, I refused the order and went to the
store myself, and complained to Head Office saying that this was the
fourth time in as many months that it had happened, and suggested that
the store had a problem with a rogue picker. Things seemed alright for
quite a while after that, but recently it's started to happen again, so
probably they've employed a new member of staff who is short of
brain-cells and/or doesn't speak good English, and haven't trained them
properly.

One problem might be the limited number of characters available to
convey your wishes to the picker, but I would have thought that "SAME
WEIGHT this/granary/wholemeal (un)sliced" should have been clear enough.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> Yesterday, Tesco's mentally-retarded staff sent me the invoice for an
> order due for delivery later on in the day, from which I saw that, for
> about the 6th or 7th time, they had substituted 4 x 400g for 4 x 800g
> loaves, IOW only delivering half the amount of bread ordered, this
> despite the accompanying instructions from myself clearly beginning
> "SAME WEIGHT ...". As I can't get decent bread locally - I've
> described the problems with that before here

Have you thought about a breadmaker? It helps if you don't have a
local source of fresh bread. The flour, yeast, etc has a much longer
shelf life.

> - I rang up and cancelled
> the entire order, and spent from noon to 6pm driving to Inverness,
> shopping, grabbing a meal, driving back, and filling the freezer etc.
> To receive a delivery from them and store it only takes about half an
> hour. Thanks for the time-wasting and extra expense, Tesco.

TBH in that circumstance I'd have just placed another order. Yes you
pay the delivery cost, but cheaper than the fuel to get there I'd have
thought. That would assume you can meet the minimum delivery charge for
things you wanted to stock up with anyway. Do it once you're getting
low on bread from your first order and you've probably collected a few
items on your shopping list for the next order.

Given Tesco's uselessness I'd be tempted to over-order bread as a
regular habit and then reject some of it if it all turns up.

> When I launched the Three PAYG app on my phone, a message came-up saying
> that it had been discontinued, and I should uninstall it and install
> another app. So I did as instructed, only to find the new app is
> "incompatible with my device", probably because it's running an old
> version of Android. So now I have no easy means from my phablet of
> managing my Three PAYG. Duh, two significant SNAFUs in one day!

It's been a while, but when I had a Three SIM and on the APN three.co.uk
you could access your account at http://mobile.three.co.uk/
without any kind of login. You had to be on Three mobile data so
sending your request through the Three network, which meant turning off
wifi for the duration. I used this for years with no Three account - I
had my card registered and did topups from there.

Not sure if that still works, but maybe worth a try?

Theo

Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> Yesterday, Tesco's mentally-retarded staff sent me the invoice for an
> order due for delivery later on in the day, from which I saw that, for
> about the 6th or 7th time, they had substituted 4 x 400g for 4 x 800g
> loaves, IOW only delivering half the amount of bread ordered, this
> despite the accompanying instructions from myself clearly beginning
> "SAME WEIGHT ...". As I can't get decent bread locally - I've
> described the problems with that before here - I rang up and cancelled
> the entire order, and spent from noon to 6pm driving to Inverness,

That's quite an extreme reaction. Why not just accept the order? Then if
you want to get more bread get it at a local shop. The highlands aren't
THAT devoid of groceries.

On 29/10/2023 18:42, Theo wrote:
>
> TBH in that circumstance I'd have just placed another order. Yes you
> pay the delivery cost, but cheaper than the fuel to get there I'd have
> thought.

There are some problems with that:

- Accepting the order doesn't give local management any incentive to
solve the problem.

- The earliest a new order could have been delivered might have been
some days away, and I was already running short of other essentials
such as milk.

- I'd've had to pay a small order charge on top of the usual delivery
charge, for something that was Tesco's fault - again, that's not
an incentive for local management to solve the problem.

> Given Tesco's uselessness I'd be tempted to over-order bread as a
> regular habit and then reject some of it if it all turns up.

I do that anyway, but bread is bulky and there's a limit to how much I
can fit in my freezer.

>> When I launched the Three PAYG app on my phone, a message came-up saying
>> that it had been discontinued, and I should uninstall it and install
>> another app. So I did as instructed, only to find the new app is
>> "incompatible with my device", probably because it's running an old
>> version of Android. So now I have no easy means from my phablet of
>> managing my Three PAYG. Duh, two significant SNAFUs in one day!
>
> It's been a while, but when I had a Three SIM and on the APN three.co.uk
> you could access your account at http://mobile.three.co.uk/
> without any kind of login. You had to be on Three mobile data so
> sending your request through the Three network, which meant turning off
> wifi for the duration. I used this for years with no Three account - I
> had my card registered and did topups from there.
>
> Not sure if that still works, but maybe worth a try?

No, the lack of https is an indicator of how long ago this was, now you
have to login.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 29/10/2023 18:55, Chris wrote:
> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>> Yesterday, Tesco's mentally-retarded staff sent me the invoice for an
>> order due for delivery later on in the day, from which I saw that, for
>> about the 6th or 7th time, they had substituted 4 x 400g for 4 x 800g
>> loaves, IOW only delivering half the amount of bread ordered, this
>> despite the accompanying instructions from myself clearly beginning
>> "SAME WEIGHT ...". As I can't get decent bread locally - I've
>> described the problems with that before here - I rang up and cancelled
>> the entire order, and spent from noon to 6pm driving to Inverness,
>
> That's quite an extreme reaction. Why not just accept the order?

Because then local management would have no incentive to address the
problem.

>> Then if
> you want to get more bread get it at a local shop. The highlands aren't
> THAT devoid of groceries.

You can get a tissue-paper white loaf anywhere, but my previous attempts
to get better nutritional value bread locally have ended either with
something dry and tasteless, a useless pile of outsize crumbs when
attempting to cut slices off the loaf, or acute constipation from what
was supposedly wholemeal long-life bread, whereas conventional wisdom
has it that wholemeal bread is what you should eat to avoid constipation!

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 29/10/2023 19:38, Java Jive wrote:
> On 29/10/2023 18:55, Chris wrote:
>> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>> Yesterday, Tesco's mentally-retarded staff sent me the invoice for an
>>> order due for delivery later on in the day, from which I saw that, for
>>> about the 6th or 7th time, they had substituted 4 x 400g for 4 x 800g
>>> loaves, IOW only delivering half the amount of bread ordered, this
>>> despite the accompanying instructions from myself clearly beginning
>>> "SAME WEIGHT ...".  As I can't get decent bread locally  -  I've
>>> described the problems with that before here  -  I rang up and cancelled
>>> the entire order, and spent from noon to 6pm driving to Inverness,
>>
>> That's quite an extreme reaction. Why not just accept the order?
>
> Because then local management would have no incentive to address the
> problem.

All of the operatives will be on minimum wage zero hours contracts. The
so called management on about 50p/hr more.

None of them will gave a fuck (As you've noticed)

Give your blood pressure a rest, and follow the pragmatic advice others
have offered in here.

In message <XIy*NN6tz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> > Yesterday, Tesco's mentally-retarded staff sent me the invoice for an
> > order due for delivery later on in the day, from which I saw that, for
> > about the 6th or 7th time, they had substituted 4 x 400g for 4 x 800g
> > loaves, IOW only delivering half the amount of bread ordered, this
> > despite the accompanying instructions from myself clearly beginning
> > "SAME WEIGHT ...". As I can't get decent bread locally - I've
> > described the problems with that before here
>
> Have you thought about a breadmaker? It helps if you don't have a local
> source of fresh bread. The flour, yeast, etc has a much longer shelf life.

+1. I make almost all my own bread. The one I make most often is to
my own recipe. I set the breadmaker going last night, and collected
a fresh loaf at 8:30 this morning.

David

Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 29/10/2023 18:55, Chris wrote:
>> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>> Yesterday, Tesco's mentally-retarded staff sent me the invoice for an
>>> order due for delivery later on in the day, from which I saw that, for
>>> about the 6th or 7th time, they had substituted 4 x 400g for 4 x 800g
>>> loaves, IOW only delivering half the amount of bread ordered, this
>>> despite the accompanying instructions from myself clearly beginning
>>> "SAME WEIGHT ...". As I can't get decent bread locally - I've
>>> described the problems with that before here - I rang up and cancelled
>>> the entire order, and spent from noon to 6pm driving to Inverness,
>>
>> That's quite an extreme reaction. Why not just accept the order?
>
> Because then local management would have no incentive to address the
> problem.

Sounds like it's not working.

>>> Then if
>> you want to get more bread get it at a local shop. The highlands aren't
>> THAT devoid of groceries.
>
> You can get a tissue-paper white loaf anywhere, but my previous attempts
> to get better nutritional value bread locally have ended either with
> something dry and tasteless, a useless pile of outsize crumbs when
> attempting to cut slices off the loaf, or acute constipation from what
> was supposedly wholemeal long-life bread, whereas conventional wisdom
> has it that wholemeal bread is what you should eat to avoid constipation!

Serious question. Have you considered a bread maker? From what I've heard
from people who have them, they're great.

On 29/10/2023 21:10, David Higton wrote:
> In message <XIy*NN6tz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>> Yesterday, Tesco's mentally-retarded staff sent me the invoice for an
>>> order due for delivery later on in the day, from which I saw that, for
>>> about the 6th or 7th time, they had substituted 4 x 400g for 4 x 800g
>>> loaves, IOW only delivering half the amount of bread ordered, this
>>> despite the accompanying instructions from myself clearly beginning
>>> "SAME WEIGHT ...". As I can't get decent bread locally - I've
>>> described the problems with that before here
>>
>> Have you thought about a breadmaker? It helps if you don't have a local
>> source of fresh bread. The flour, yeast, etc has a much longer shelf life.
>
> +1. I make almost all my own bread. The one I make most often is to
> my own recipe. I set the breadmaker going last night, and collected
> a fresh loaf at 8:30 this morning.
>
Even without a bread machine, making bread is simple.
I use a stand mixer, take a few minutes to weigh out the ingredients, a
few more minutes to mix and knead, then it sits until it's ready to be
shaped, sits again until risen, then into the oven.
Very little hands-on time, tastes better, and costs considerably less
than supermarket rubbish.

On Mon 30/10/2023 08:57, S Viemeister wrote:
> On 29/10/2023 21:10, David Higton wrote:
>> In message <XIy*NN6tz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
>>            Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Yesterday, Tesco's mentally-retarded staff sent me the invoice for an
>>>> order due for delivery later on in the day, from which I saw that, for
>>>> about the 6th or 7th time, they had substituted 4 x 400g for 4 x 800g
>>>> loaves, IOW only delivering half the amount of bread ordered, this
>>>> despite the accompanying instructions from myself clearly beginning
>>>> "SAME WEIGHT ...".  As I can't get decent bread locally  -  I've
>>>> described the problems with that before here
>>>
>>> Have you thought about a breadmaker?  It helps if you don't have a local
>>> source of fresh bread.  The flour, yeast, etc has a much longer shelf
>>> life.
>>
>> +1.  I make almost all my own bread.  The one I make most often is to
>> my own recipe.  I set the breadmaker going last night, and collected
>> a fresh loaf at 8:30 this morning.
>>
> Even without a bread machine, making bread is simple.
> I use a stand mixer, take a few minutes to weigh out the ingredients, a
> few more minutes to mix and knead, then it sits until it's ready to be
> shaped, sits again until risen, then into the oven.
> Very little hands-on time, tastes better, and costs considerably less
> than supermarket rubbish.

We have a Panasonic breadmaker and it has taken over a year and two
machines to get the recipe right!
We have used Allinsons strong white bread flour and a similar own brand
from Waitrose. Allinsons was a disaster, Waitrose worked but inconsistently.
Then in passing we had heard about using Canadian strong white bread
flour of which we bought some from Waitrose and since then 100% success.
The flour costs £2 for 1.5kg, and the recipe uses 400g a pop. Forget
about the yeast and salt,the only other item is 300ml of water. That
means you will get 15 loaves for £8, or around 54p per loaf. The only
catch is that the loaves are smallish and you only get 8 slices per
loaf, but they taste fantastic!

On Mon 30/10/2023 08:57, S Viemeister wrote:
> On 29/10/2023 21:10, David Higton wrote:
>> In message <XIy*NN6tz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
>>            Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Yesterday, Tesco's mentally-retarded staff sent me the invoice for an
>>>> order due for delivery later on in the day, from which I saw that, for
>>>> about the 6th or 7th time, they had substituted 4 x 400g for 4 x 800g
>>>> loaves, IOW only delivering half the amount of bread ordered, this
>>>> despite the accompanying instructions from myself clearly beginning
>>>> "SAME WEIGHT ...".  As I can't get decent bread locally  -  I've
>>>> described the problems with that before here
>>>
>>> Have you thought about a breadmaker?  It helps if you don't have a local
>>> source of fresh bread.  The flour, yeast, etc has a much longer shelf
>>> life.
>>
>> +1.  I make almost all my own bread.  The one I make most often is to
>> my own recipe.  I set the breadmaker going last night, and collected
>> a fresh loaf at 8:30 this morning.
>>
> Even without a bread machine, making bread is simple.
> I use a stand mixer, take a few minutes to weigh out the ingredients, a
> few more minutes to mix and knead, then it sits until it's ready to be
> shaped, sits again until risen, then into the oven.
> Very little hands-on time, tastes better, and costs considerably less
> than supermarket rubbish.

We have a Panasonic breadmaker and it has taken over a year and two
machines to get the recipe right!
We have used Allinsons strong white bread flour and a similar own brand
from Waitrose. Allinsons was a disaster, Waitrose worked but inconsistently.
Then in passing we had heard about using Canadian strong white bread
flour of which we bought some from Waitrose and since then 100% success.
The flour costs £2 for 1.5kg, and the recipe uses 400g a pop. Forget
about the yeast and salt,the only other item is 300ml of water. That
means you will get 15 loaves for £8, or around 54p per loaf. The only
catch is that the loaves are smallish and you only get 8 slices per
loaf, but they taste fantastic!

Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:

> Yesterday, Tesco's mentally-retarded staff sent me the invoice for an
> order due for delivery later on in the day, from which I saw that, for
> about the 6th or 7th time, they had substituted 4 x 400g for 4 x 800g
> loaves, IOW only delivering half the amount of bread ordered, this
> despite the accompanying instructions from myself clearly beginning
> "SAME WEIGHT ...". As I can't get decent bread locally - I've
> described the problems with that before here - I rang up and cancelled
> the entire order, and spent from noon to 6pm driving to Inverness,
> shopping, grabbing a meal, driving back, and filling the freezer etc.

So basically you mounted Rocinante and charged at a windmill called Tesco.

Can we take it that you simply can’t see how barmy that was?

One question to ask yourself is: do I really need 4x400g loaves of bread
NOW?

Followed by asking yourself what is the easiest way of dealing with this?

Others have suggested rational alternatives that one would have hoped you
considered first.

> FFS: Just *WHO* programs shit like this???!!! Just how far and wide
> and long do they have to search to find people as incompetent as this???!!!

The other side of that coin is the mindset of those who do what you did.

--
Spike

Woody wrote:

> we had heard about using Canadian strong white bread flour of which we
> bought some from Waitrose and since then 100% success.

^^^^ this

> The only catch is that the loaves are smallish and you only get 8
> slices per loaf
Your panasonic doesn't have "large" and "XL" loaf settings?

On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 19:43:32 +0000, Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com>
wrote:

>On 29/10/2023 19:38, Java Jive wrote:
>> On 29/10/2023 18:55, Chris wrote:
>>> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Yesterday, Tesco's mentally-retarded staff sent me the invoice for an
>>>> order due for delivery later on in the day, from which I saw that, for
>>>> about the 6th or 7th time, they had substituted 4 x 400g for 4 x 800g
>>>> loaves, IOW only delivering half the amount of bread ordered, this
>>>> despite the accompanying instructions from myself clearly beginning
>>>> "SAME WEIGHT ...".  As I can't get decent bread locally  -  I've
>>>> described the problems with that before here  -  I rang up and cancelled
>>>> the entire order, and spent from noon to 6pm driving to Inverness,
>>>
>>> That's quite an extreme reaction. Why not just accept the order?
>>
>> Because then local management would have no incentive to address the
>> problem.
>
>All of the operatives will be on minimum wage zero hours contracts. The
>so called management on about 50p/hr more.

They probably are, but that's what you get when customers demand the
lowest possible price and will go wherever they can save a few pence
extra on their shopping bill.

It's the same with so many other services. Why do you think airlines
have cut their customer services to the bare bones and have minimal
service levels? If passengers demand flights for £20 that's what the
airlines have to do to provide them at that price.

Chris

On Sunday, 29 October 2023 at 21:21:13 UTC, Chris wrote:
> Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> > On 29/10/2023 18:55, Chris wrote:
> >> Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> >>> Yesterday, Tesco's mentally-retarded staff sent me the invoice for an
> >>> order due for delivery later on in the day, from which I saw that, for
> >>> about the 6th or 7th time, they had substituted 4 x 400g for 4 x 800g
> >>> loaves, IOW only delivering half the amount of bread ordered, this
> >>> despite the accompanying instructions from myself clearly beginning
> >>> "SAME WEIGHT ...". As I can't get decent bread locally - I've
> >>> described the problems with that before here - I rang up and cancelled
> >>> the entire order, and spent from noon to 6pm driving to Inverness,
> >>
> >> That's quite an extreme reaction. Why not just accept the order?
> >
> > Because then local management would have no incentive to address the
> > problem.
> Sounds like it's not working.
> >>> Then if
> >> you want to get more bread get it at a local shop. The highlands aren't
> >> THAT devoid of groceries.
> >
> > You can get a tissue-paper white loaf anywhere, but my previous attempts
> > to get better nutritional value bread locally have ended either with
> > something dry and tasteless, a useless pile of outsize crumbs when
> > attempting to cut slices off the loaf, or acute constipation from what
> > was supposedly wholemeal long-life bread, whereas conventional wisdom
> > has it that wholemeal bread is what you should eat to avoid constipation!
> Serious question. Have you considered a bread maker? From what I've heard
> from people who have them, they're great.

Yes they do. We got a [new] one early in Covid, when our old one tripped our RCD. Nothing fancy about £55.

There was a little trial and error, but we find 50/50 strong [white] bread flour / wholemeal bread flour gives good and reliable results.

On 30/10/2023 09:45, Woody wrote:
> On Mon 30/10/2023 08:57, S Viemeister wrote:
>> On 29/10/2023 21:10, David Higton wrote:
>>>
>> Very little hands-on time, tastes better, and costs considerably less
>> than supermarket rubbish.

Supermarket rubbish is 75p for 800g.

> The flour costs £2 for 1.5kg, and the recipe uses 400g a pop. Forget about
> the yeast and salt,the only other item is 300ml of water. That means you
> will get 15 loaves for £8, or around 54p per loaf.

"Based on today’s prices* for flour, yeast, butter, sugar, salt (unbranded
ingredients) and even electricity, the Panasonic SD-YR2550 Breadmaker can
bake a 600g loaf of white bread for as little as 70p, using programme 1."

https://www.panasonic.com/uk/consumer/home-appliances-learn/home-appliances/easy-home-baking-with-panasonic-breadmakers.html

(does not include purchase / extended warranty cost)

On Mon 30/10/2023 10:37, Andy Burns wrote:
>
> Woody wrote:
>
>> we had heard about using Canadian strong white bread flour of which we
>> bought some from Waitrose and since then 100% success.
>
> ^^^^ this
>
>> The only catch is that the loaves are smallish and you only get 8
>> slices per loaf
> Your panasonic doesn't have "large" and "XL" loaf settings?

The size limitation is the bucket in which the bread grows, not the
settings of the electronics - not to say that they don't have effect
when you get the setting or the mix wrong!!

Woody wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Your panasonic doesn't have "large" and "XL" loaf settings?
>
> The size limitation is the bucket in which the bread grows, not the
> settings of the electronics - not to say that they don't have effect
> when you get the setting or the mix wrong!!

On an XL, mine takes 940g of ingredients, obviously some of that boils
off during baking, but I suspect what comes out is close to an 800g
loaf, sometimes get dangerously close to hitting the roof.

On Monday, 30 October 2023 at 14:10:29 UTC, Nick Finnigan wrote:
> On 30/10/2023 09:45, Woody wrote:
> > On Mon 30/10/2023 08:57, S Viemeister wrote:
> >> On 29/10/2023 21:10, David Higton wrote:
> >>>
> >> Very little hands-on time, tastes better, and costs considerably less
> >> than supermarket rubbish.
> Supermarket rubbish is 75p for 800g.

And isn't always rubbish - wholemeal usually OK.

Most of their phone deal are rubbish - with Asda the worst.

> > The flour costs £2 for 1.5kg, and the recipe uses 400g a pop. Forget about
> > the yeast and salt,the only other item is 300ml of water. That means you
> > will get 15 loaves for £8, or around 54p per loaf.

Flour has remained <£1 for 1.5kg, despite a rise during Covid, Russian invasion etc.
Maybe you buy organic flour from Waitrose?
https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/duchy-organic-strong-white-bread-flour/049465-24644-24645 now £2.20p

> "Based on today’s prices* for flour, yeast, butter, sugar, salt (unbranded
> ingredients) and even electricity, the Panasonic SD-YR2550 Breadmaker can
> bake a 600g loaf of white bread for as little as 70p, using programme 1."
>

Butter? A soupcon (5ml) of vegetable oil, but that's just to stop it sticking in the tin. Next biggest cost will be energy probably 1kWhr 25-30p

> https://www.panasonic.com/uk/consumer/home-appliances-learn/home-appliances/easy-home-baking-with-panasonic-breadmakers.html
>
> (does not include purchase / extended warranty cost)

On Mon 30/10/2023 15:40, notya...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, 30 October 2023 at 14:10:29 UTC, Nick Finnigan wrote:
>> On 30/10/2023 09:45, Woody wrote:
>>> On Mon 30/10/2023 08:57, S Viemeister wrote:
>>>> On 29/10/2023 21:10, David Higton wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> Very little hands-on time, tastes better, and costs considerably less
>>>> than supermarket rubbish.
>> Supermarket rubbish is 75p for 800g.
>
> And isn't always rubbish - wholemeal usually OK.
>
> Most of their phone deal are rubbish - with Asda the worst.
>
>>> The flour costs £2 for 1.5kg, and the recipe uses 400g a pop. Forget about
>>> the yeast and salt,the only other item is 300ml of water. That means you
>>> will get 15 loaves for £8, or around 54p per loaf.
>
> Flour has remained <£1 for 1.5kg, despite a rise during Covid, Russian invasion etc.
> Maybe you buy organic flour from Waitrose?
> https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/duchy-organic-strong-white-bread-flour/049465-24644-24645 now £2.20p
>
>> "Based on today’s prices* for flour, yeast, butter, sugar, salt (unbranded
>> ingredients) and even electricity, the Panasonic SD-YR2550 Breadmaker can
>> bake a 600g loaf of white bread for as little as 70p, using programme 1."
>>
>
> Butter? A soupcon (5ml) of vegetable oil, but that's just to stop it sticking in the tin. Next biggest cost will be energy probably 1kWhr 25-30p
>
>> https://www.panasonic.com/uk/consumer/home-appliances-learn/home-appliances/easy-home-baking-with-panasonic-breadmakers.html
>>
>> (does not include purchase / extended warranty cost)

Definition of vegetable oil? Will sunflower do, and do you wipe the tin
or just put it in the mix?

On Mon 30/10/2023 15:40, notya...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, 30 October 2023 at 14:10:29 UTC, Nick Finnigan wrote:
>> On 30/10/2023 09:45, Woody wrote:
>>> On Mon 30/10/2023 08:57, S Viemeister wrote:
>>>> On 29/10/2023 21:10, David Higton wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> Very little hands-on time, tastes better, and costs considerably less
>>>> than supermarket rubbish.
>> Supermarket rubbish is 75p for 800g.
>
> And isn't always rubbish - wholemeal usually OK.
>
> Most of their phone deal are rubbish - with Asda the worst.
>
>>> The flour costs £2 for 1.5kg, and the recipe uses 400g a pop. Forget about
>>> the yeast and salt,the only other item is 300ml of water. That means you
>>> will get 15 loaves for £8, or around 54p per loaf.
>
> Flour has remained <£1 for 1.5kg, despite a rise during Covid, Russian invasion etc.
> Maybe you buy organic flour from Waitrose?
> https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/duchy-organic-strong-white-bread-flour/049465-24644-24645 now £2.20p
>
>> "Based on today’s prices* for flour, yeast, butter, sugar, salt (unbranded
>> ingredients) and even electricity, the Panasonic SD-YR2550 Breadmaker can
>> bake a 600g loaf of white bread for as little as 70p, using programme 1."
>>
>
> Butter? A soupcon (5ml) of vegetable oil, but that's just to stop it sticking in the tin. Next biggest cost will be energy probably 1kWhr 25-30p
>
>> https://www.panasonic.com/uk/consumer/home-appliances-learn/home-appliances/easy-home-baking-with-panasonic-breadmakers.html
>>
>> (does not include purchase / extended warranty cost)

Definition of vegetable oil? Will sunflower do, and do you wipe the tin
or just put it in the mix?