https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10897999/Youre-playing-for-England-Moeen-Ali-not-your-religion.html

You’re playing for England, Moeen Ali, not your religion
Before he went out to bat, Moeen Ali claimed he was representing his Muslim faith

By Michael Henderson
13 June 2014 • 8:53pm
Moeen Ali of England bats during the tour match between Western Australia 2nd XI and England Performance Programme at James Oval on December 12, 2013 in Perth, Australia
England cricketer Moeen Ali said he wore his beard as a label CREDIT: Photo: GETTY
National identity is not always easy to define. The artist Wassily Kandinsky, for instance, was born in Russia, lived in Germany, and died in France. At various times he was a citizen of each of those countries, though posterity will judge him to be a German painter. Igor Stravinsky, also born in Russia, lived in France and America, and was buried at his request in Venice.

Or how about a man who is still with us? Daniel Barenboim was born in Buenos Aires to parents who were Russian Jews. Taken to Israel as a young boy, the pianist‑conductor has spent his adult years living in London, Paris and Berlin. An Israeli by choice, who has been granted honorary Palestinian citizenship, he will support Argentina at the World Cup. “I have multiple identities,” he told me some years ago in Chicago (another of his homes), “but my football loyalty will never change.”

Some things, he was saying, are in the blood. When it comes to sport, they have to be in the blood, otherwise what are you playing the game for, and for whom? That question arose at 1.55pm on Thursday when Moeen Ali, born in Birmingham 27 years ago to a Pakistani family, walked out to bat for England on a sunlit day at Lord’s.

It was a proud moment for Ali, a batsman who plays his county cricket for Worcestershire. As is customary at Lord’s, which boasts the most fair-minded audience in the whole of sport, he was accompanied to the crease by applause, and clapped again when he was out for 48 well-made runs. The fact that he is a Muslim was neither here nor there.

For Ali, however, it clearly matters a great deal. Before the Test he spoke of “representing the Muslim faith”, and of wearing his beard as “a label” and also as a “uniform” in the way that schoolchildren wore theirs. Oh dear. We are drifting into dangerous waters. It is better for all concerned to push the vessel back gently towards shore.

First, a beard can never be a uniform. Schoolchildren wear uniforms because it is a way of showing that, whether they are rich or poor, black or white, left or right, or inside-out, they all enjoy equality in the classroom. A man who belongs to a team and draws attention to his beard as a symbol of his faith is opting to stand out.

Next, membership of a national team can only ever represent one thing, and that is the country in whose name you take the field. It is restrictive, because you have to belong to that country, but as the England cricket team has in recent years been represented by players born in Ireland, South Africa, Zimbabwe, India, Pakistan, and all parts of the Caribbean where English is spoken, it is not that restrictive.

Read more at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10897999/Youre-playing-for-England-Moeen-Ali-not-your-religion.html

RH

On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 10:53:46 AM UTC+1, RH wrote:
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10897999/Youre-playing-for-England-Moeen-Ali-not-your-religion.html
>
> You’re playing for England, Moeen Ali, not your religion
> Before he went out to bat, Moeen Ali claimed he was representing his Muslim faith
>
> By Michael Henderson
> 13 June 2014 • 8:53pm
> Moeen Ali of England bats during the tour match between Western Australia 2nd XI and England Performance Programme at James Oval on December 12, 2013 in Perth, Australia
> England cricketer Moeen Ali said he wore his beard as a label CREDIT: Photo: GETTY
> National identity is not always easy to define. The artist Wassily Kandinsky, for instance, was born in Russia, lived in Germany, and died in France.. At various times he was a citizen of each of those countries, though posterity will judge him to be a German painter. Igor Stravinsky, also born in Russia, lived in France and America, and was buried at his request in Venice.
>
> Or how about a man who is still with us? Daniel Barenboim was born in Buenos Aires to parents who were Russian Jews. Taken to Israel as a young boy, the pianist‑conductor has spent his adult years living in London, Paris and Berlin. An Israeli by choice, who has been granted honorary Palestinian citizenship, he will support Argentina at the World Cup. “I have multiple identities,” he told me some years ago in Chicago (another of his homes), “but my football loyalty will never change.”
>
> Some things, he was saying, are in the blood. When it comes to sport, they have to be in the blood, otherwise what are you playing the game for, and for whom? That question arose at 1.55pm on Thursday when Moeen Ali, born in Birmingham 27 years ago to a Pakistani family, walked out to bat for England on a sunlit day at Lord’s.
>
> It was a proud moment for Ali, a batsman who plays his county cricket for Worcestershire. As is customary at Lord’s, which boasts the most fair-minded audience in the whole of sport, he was accompanied to the crease by applause, and clapped again when he was out for 48 well-made runs. The fact that he is a Muslim was neither here nor there.
>
> For Ali, however, it clearly matters a great deal. Before the Test he spoke of “representing the Muslim faith”, and of wearing his beard as “a label” and also as a “uniform” in the way that schoolchildren wore theirs. Oh dear. We are drifting into dangerous waters. It is better for all concerned to push the vessel back gently towards shore.
>
> First, a beard can never be a uniform. Schoolchildren wear uniforms because it is a way of showing that, whether they are rich or poor, black or white, left or right, or inside-out, they all enjoy equality in the classroom. A man who belongs to a team and draws attention to his beard as a symbol of his faith is opting to stand out.
>
> Next, membership of a national team can only ever represent one thing, and that is the country in whose name you take the field. It is restrictive, because you have to belong to that country, but as the England cricket team has in recent years been represented by players born in Ireland, South Africa, Zimbabwe, India, Pakistan, and all parts of the Caribbean where English is spoken, it is not that restrictive.
>
> Read more at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10897999/Youre-playing-for-England-Moeen-Ali-not-your-religion.html
>
>
> RH
Oh where have all the liberal bigots gone
Very quiet everyone

RH

On Tuesday, 1 June 2021 at 17:59:14 UTC+1, RH wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 10:53:46 AM UTC+1, RH wrote:
> > https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10897999/Youre-playing-for-England-Moeen-Ali-not-your-religion.html
> >
> > You’re playing for England, Moeen Ali, not your religion
> > Before he went out to bat, Moeen Ali claimed he was representing his Muslim faith
> >
> > By Michael Henderson
> > 13 June 2014 • 8:53pm
> > Moeen Ali of England bats during the tour match between Western Australia 2nd XI and England Performance Programme at James Oval on December 12, 2013 in Perth, Australia
> > England cricketer Moeen Ali said he wore his beard as a label CREDIT: Photo: GETTY
> > National identity is not always easy to define. The artist Wassily Kandinsky, for instance, was born in Russia, lived in Germany, and died in France. At various times he was a citizen of each of those countries, though posterity will judge him to be a German painter. Igor Stravinsky, also born in Russia, lived in France and America, and was buried at his request in Venice.
> >
> > Or how about a man who is still with us? Daniel Barenboim was born in Buenos Aires to parents who were Russian Jews. Taken to Israel as a young boy, the pianist‑conductor has spent his adult years living in London, Paris and Berlin. An Israeli by choice, who has been granted honorary Palestinian citizenship, he will support Argentina at the World Cup. “I have multiple identities,” he told me some years ago in Chicago (another of his homes), “but my football loyalty will never change.”
> >
> > Some things, he was saying, are in the blood. When it comes to sport, they have to be in the blood, otherwise what are you playing the game for, and for whom? That question arose at 1.55pm on Thursday when Moeen Ali, born in Birmingham 27 years ago to a Pakistani family, walked out to bat for England on a sunlit day at Lord’s.
> >
> > It was a proud moment for Ali, a batsman who plays his county cricket for Worcestershire. As is customary at Lord’s, which boasts the most fair-minded audience in the whole of sport, he was accompanied to the crease by applause, and clapped again when he was out for 48 well-made runs. The fact that he is a Muslim was neither here nor there.
> >
> > For Ali, however, it clearly matters a great deal. Before the Test he spoke of “representing the Muslim faith”, and of wearing his beard as “a label” and also as a “uniform” in the way that schoolchildren wore theirs. Oh dear. We are drifting into dangerous waters. It is better for all concerned to push the vessel back gently towards shore.
> >
> > First, a beard can never be a uniform. Schoolchildren wear uniforms because it is a way of showing that, whether they are rich or poor, black or white, left or right, or inside-out, they all enjoy equality in the classroom. A man who belongs to a team and draws attention to his beard as a symbol of his faith is opting to stand out.
> >
> > Next, membership of a national team can only ever represent one thing, and that is the country in whose name you take the field. It is restrictive, because you have to belong to that country, but as the England cricket team has in recent years been represented by players born in Ireland, South Africa, Zimbabwe, India, Pakistan, and all parts of the Caribbean where English is spoken, it is not that restrictive.
> >
> > Read more at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10897999/Youre-playing-for-England-Moeen-Ali-not-your-religion.html
> >
> >
> > RH
> Oh where have all the liberal bigots gone
> Very quiet everyone
>
> RH

Look it's a man jumping up and down and pointing his grubby racist finger about a 7 years old story. He doesn't know anything about Muslims and the significance their beards that's pretty obvious. It's obvious too that he doesn't understand that all persons of all faiths represent their faith in God first and before all else.
Robert Henderson you must really be a very vile person or a very stupid person.

On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 6:10:54 PM UTC+1, Najeeb ybo wrote:
> On Tuesday, 1 June 2021 at 17:59:14 UTC+1, RH wrote:
> > On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 10:53:46 AM UTC+1, RH wrote:
> > > https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10897999/Youre-playing-for-England-Moeen-Ali-not-your-religion.html
> > >
> > > You’re playing for England, Moeen Ali, not your religion
> > > Before he went out to bat, Moeen Ali claimed he was representing his Muslim faith
> > >
> > > By Michael Henderson
> > > 13 June 2014 • 8:53pm
> > > Moeen Ali of England bats during the tour match between Western Australia 2nd XI and England Performance Programme at James Oval on December 12, 2013 in Perth, Australia
> > > England cricketer Moeen Ali said he wore his beard as a label CREDIT: Photo: GETTY
> > > National identity is not always easy to define. The artist Wassily Kandinsky, for instance, was born in Russia, lived in Germany, and died in France. At various times he was a citizen of each of those countries, though posterity will judge him to be a German painter. Igor Stravinsky, also born in Russia, lived in France and America, and was buried at his request in Venice.
> > >
> > > Or how about a man who is still with us? Daniel Barenboim was born in Buenos Aires to parents who were Russian Jews. Taken to Israel as a young boy, the pianist‑conductor has spent his adult years living in London, Paris and Berlin. An Israeli by choice, who has been granted honorary Palestinian citizenship, he will support Argentina at the World Cup. “I have multiple identities,” he told me some years ago in Chicago (another of his homes), “but my football loyalty will never change.”
> > >
> > > Some things, he was saying, are in the blood. When it comes to sport, they have to be in the blood, otherwise what are you playing the game for, and for whom? That question arose at 1.55pm on Thursday when Moeen Ali, born in Birmingham 27 years ago to a Pakistani family, walked out to bat for England on a sunlit day at Lord’s.
> > >
> > > It was a proud moment for Ali, a batsman who plays his county cricket for Worcestershire. As is customary at Lord’s, which boasts the most fair-minded audience in the whole of sport, he was accompanied to the crease by applause, and clapped again when he was out for 48 well-made runs. The fact that he is a Muslim was neither here nor there.
> > >
> > > For Ali, however, it clearly matters a great deal. Before the Test he spoke of “representing the Muslim faith”, and of wearing his beard as “a label” and also as a “uniform” in the way that schoolchildren wore theirs. Oh dear. We are drifting into dangerous waters. It is better for all concerned to push the vessel back gently towards shore.
> > >
> > > First, a beard can never be a uniform. Schoolchildren wear uniforms because it is a way of showing that, whether they are rich or poor, black or white, left or right, or inside-out, they all enjoy equality in the classroom. A man who belongs to a team and draws attention to his beard as a symbol of his faith is opting to stand out.
> > >
> > > Next, membership of a national team can only ever represent one thing, and that is the country in whose name you take the field. It is restrictive, because you have to belong to that country, but as the England cricket team has in recent years been represented by players born in Ireland, South Africa, Zimbabwe, India, Pakistan, and all parts of the Caribbean where English is spoken, it is not that restrictive.
> > >
> > > Read more at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10897999/Youre-playing-for-England-Moeen-Ali-not-your-religion.html
> > >
> > >
> > > RH
> > Oh where have all the liberal bigots gone
> > Very quiet everyone
> >
> > RH
> Look it's a man jumping up and down and pointing his grubby racist finger about a 7 years old story. He doesn't know anything about Muslims and the significance their beards that's pretty obvious. It's obvious too that he doesn't understand that all persons of all faiths represent their faith in God first and before all else.
> Robert Henderson you must really be a very vile person or a very stupid person.

Translation: a dimwit at full pc incomprehension .... RH

In message <4131d0e8-5237-4c40-9ebd-8d6bc99ff766n@googlegroups.com>, RH
<anywhere156@gmail.com> writes
>On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 10:53:46 AM UTC+1, RH wrote:
>>
>>https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10897999/Youre-playing-for-En
>>gland-Moeen-Ali-not-your-religion.html
>>
>> You’re playing for England, Moeen Ali, not your religion
>> Before he went out to bat, Moeen Ali claimed he was representing his
>>Muslim faith
>>
>> By Michael Henderson
>> 13 June 2014 • 8:53pm
<snip>
>Oh where have all the liberal bigots gone
>Very quiet everyone
>
>RH

You've reposted a seven-year-old newspaper article, which I'm pretty
sure you posted here when it first appeared and which we discussed at
considerable length at the time. I've got better things to do than to go
over this again, especially as it's obvious that you can never be
persuaded to change your views. It's clear to most of us that Moeen Ali
is a thoroughly decent and kind man who has given England great service,
which included being shunted up and down the batting order without
complaint.
--
John Hall "Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always
pays off now." Anon

On Tue, 1 Jun 2021 18:16:37 +0100, John Hall <john_nospam@jhall.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <4131d0e8-5237-4c40-9ebd-8d6bc99ff766n@googlegroups.com>, RH
><anywhere156@gmail.com> writes
>>On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 10:53:46 AM UTC+1, RH wrote:
>>>
>>>https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10897999/Youre-playing-for-En
>>>gland-Moeen-Ali-not-your-religion.html
>>>
>>> You’re playing for England, Moeen Ali, not your religion
>>> Before he went out to bat, Moeen Ali claimed he was representing his
>>>Muslim faith
>>>
>>> By Michael Henderson
>>> 13 June 2014 • 8:53pm
><snip>
>>Oh where have all the liberal bigots gone
>>Very quiet everyone
>>
>>RH
>
>You've reposted a seven-year-old newspaper article, which I'm pretty
>sure you posted here when it first appeared and which we discussed at
>considerable length at the time. I've got better things to do than to go
>over this again, especially as it's obvious that you can never be
>persuaded to change your views. It's clear to most of us that Moeen Ali
>is a thoroughly decent and kind man who has given England great service,
>which included being shunted up and down the batting order without
>complaint.

Yer man is just desperate for attention of any kind. He'll tip into
that barrel he's scraping and he'll never be heard from again with any
luck.

It's amazing that he is on the wrong side of every arguement almost
every single time. What a talent he has for uselessness.

max.it

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Tue, 1 Jun 2021 18:16:37 +0100, John Hall <john_nospam@jhall.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <4131d0e8-5237-4c40-9ebd-8d6bc99ff766n@googlegroups.com>, RH
><anywhere156@gmail.com> writes
>>On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 10:53:46 AM UTC+1, RH wrote:
>>>
>>>https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10897999/Youre-playing-for-En
>>>gland-Moeen-Ali-not-your-religion.html
>>>
>>> You’re playing for England, Moeen Ali, not your religion
>>> Before he went out to bat, Moeen Ali claimed he was representing his
>>>Muslim faith
>>>
>>> By Michael Henderson
>>> 13 June 2014 • 8:53pm
><snip>
>>Oh where have all the liberal bigots gone
>>Very quiet everyone
>>
>>RH
>
>You've reposted a seven-year-old newspaper article, which I'm pretty
>sure you posted here when it first appeared and which we discussed at
>considerable length at the time. I've got better things to do than to go
>over this again, especially as it's obvious that you can never be
>persuaded to change your views. It's clear to most of us that Moeen Ali
>is a thoroughly decent and kind man who has given England great service,
>which included being shunted up and down the batting order without
>complaint.

It is however hilarious that he feels the need to point out that
nobody read his original post because everyone sensible has killfiled
him already. Had you not replied, I'd have remained blissfully unaware
that he was dragging out an ancient article by a journalist whose
opinions are nearly as reprehensible as his own.

Cheers,

Mike

On Wednesday, June 2, 2021 at 2:59:14 AM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> Oh where have all the liberal bigots gone
> Very quiet everyone

Liberal bigot here. I support Ali's right to say the things he said. No problem at all.
So long as "representing England" is somewhere on his list or priorities. It doesn't have to be anywhere near the top.

On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 6:27:26 PM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
> In message <4131d0e8-5237-4c40...@googlegroups.com>, RH
> <anywh...@gmail.com> writes
> >On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 10:53:46 AM UTC+1, RH wrote:
> >>
> >>https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10897999/Youre-playing-for-En
> >>gland-Moeen-Ali-not-your-religion.html
> >>
> >> You’re playing for England, Moeen Ali, not your religion
> >> Before he went out to bat, Moeen Ali claimed he was representing his
> >>Muslim faith
> >>
> >> By Michael Henderson
> >> 13 June 2014 • 8:53pm
> <snip>
> >Oh where have all the liberal bigots gone
> >Very quiet everyone
> >
> >RH
> You've reposted a seven-year-old newspaper article, which I'm pretty
> sure you posted here when it first appeared and which we discussed at
> considerable length at the time.

The truth cannot be told too often,.... |RH

I've got better things to do than to go
> over this again, especially as it's obvious that you can never be
> persuaded to change your views. It's clear to most of us that Moeen Ali
> is a thoroughly decent and kind man who has given England great service,
> which included being shunted up and down the batting order without
> complaint.
> --
> John Hall "Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always
> pays off now." Anon

On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 6:41:27 PM UTC+1, max.it wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Jun 2021 18:16:37 +0100, John Hall <john_...@jhall.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >In message <4131d0e8-5237-4c40...@googlegroups.com>, RH
> ><anywh...@gmail.com> writes
> >>On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 10:53:46 AM UTC+1, RH wrote:
> >>>
> >>>https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10897999/Youre-playing-for-En
> >>>gland-Moeen-Ali-not-your-religion.html
> >>>
> >>> You’re playing for England, Moeen Ali, not your religion
> >>> Before he went out to bat, Moeen Ali claimed he was representing his
> >>>Muslim faith
> >>>
> >>> By Michael Henderson
> >>> 13 June 2014 • 8:53pm
> ><snip>
> >>Oh where have all the liberal bigots gone
> >>Very quiet everyone
> >>
> >>RH
> >
> >You've reposted a seven-year-old newspaper article, which I'm pretty
> >sure you posted here when it first appeared and which we discussed at
> >considerable length at the time. I've got better things to do than to go
> >over this again, especially as it's obvious that you can never be
> >persuaded to change your views. It's clear to most of us that Moeen Ali
> >is a thoroughly decent and kind man who has given England great service,
> >which included being shunted up and down the batting order without
> >complaint.
> Yer man is just desperate for attention of any kind. He'll tip into
> that barrel he's scraping and he'll never be heard from again with any
> luck.
>
> It's amazing that he is on the wrong side of every arguement almost
> every single time. What a talent he has for uselessness.
>
> max.it
>
> --

And along comes Lazarus at my whistle. .... RH