We live in the countryside and there is almost no signal.

With FTTP; we can make calls but obviously receiving ones to a mobile
doesn't worki. Also one occassionally needs to receive an SMS for some
financial auth purpose.

WIFI calling should work (Vodafone) but doesn't really, especially for
incoming.

So, a few years ago, I bought one of those repeaters. It kind of
worked for a few months and then packed up. It was obviously
unapproved in the UK; the paperwork from the chinese mfg (the front
was a UK company) described it as "HIFI amplifier" :)

I took it to bits and it was just a simple microwave amplifier. Two
channels.

Recently I decided to tackle this issue again and looked at what else
is around. I found the above outfit. Now they call themselves
https://www.docallboosters.com. Bought this one
https://www.docallboosters.com/product/pro-mobile-signal-booster-voice-300-sq-m/

It worked for a couple of months and then stopped.

I found that the front panel config is lost when the power fails. It
is not stored in an eeprom or similar. And we do get power cuts or
brief interruptions, so this thing is basically useless.

I wanted to return it for repair but the company is stalling, and
asking for photos and just now a video. This is really weird, and I
wonder if this is not another illegal product. It is obviously an
"intentional emitter" category and radiating probably a few watts on
900/1800MHz is an interesting proposition. But they do work...

An views on this?

Otherwise it looks like £295 down the pan, and it is now outside the
CC Section 75 claimback period.

On Thu 02/11/2023 10:09, Peter wrote:
> We live in the countryside and there is almost no signal.
>
> With FTTP; we can make calls but obviously receiving ones to a mobile
> doesn't worki. Also one occassionally needs to receive an SMS for some
> financial auth purpose.
>
> WIFI calling should work (Vodafone) but doesn't really, especially for
> incoming.
>
> So, a few years ago, I bought one of those repeaters. It kind of
> worked for a few months and then packed up. It was obviously
> unapproved in the UK; the paperwork from the chinese mfg (the front
> was a UK company) described it as "HIFI amplifier" :)
>
> I took it to bits and it was just a simple microwave amplifier. Two
> channels.
>
> Recently I decided to tackle this issue again and looked at what else
> is around. I found the above outfit. Now they call themselves
> https://www.docallboosters.com. Bought this one
> https://www.docallboosters.com/product/pro-mobile-signal-booster-voice-300-sq-m/
>
> It worked for a couple of months and then stopped.
>
> I found that the front panel config is lost when the power fails. It
> is not stored in an eeprom or similar. And we do get power cuts or
> brief interruptions, so this thing is basically useless.
>
> I wanted to return it for repair but the company is stalling, and
> asking for photos and just now a video. This is really weird, and I
> wonder if this is not another illegal product. It is obviously an
> "intentional emitter" category and radiating probably a few watts on
> 900/1800MHz is an interesting proposition. But they do work...
>
> An views on this?
>
> Otherwise it looks like £295 down the pan, and it is now outside the
> CC Section 75 claimback period.

OfCom are taking a new look at domestic mobile repeaters which may
change the scene for you. Have a look at https://tinyurl.com/ydrceamj
and see if it is relevant.

Otherwise the organisation to look at is Solwise in Hull.

Peter wrote:
>
> WIFI calling should work (Vodafone) but doesn't really, especially for
> incoming.

Surprised, wifi calling on O2 has improved my call quality/reliability
(both for wifi on home broadband, and on a mifi on ee)

have you spoken to voda?

> So, a few years ago, I bought one of those repeaters. It kind of
> worked for a few months and then packed up. It was obviously
> unapproved in the UK;

There *are* now legal uk mobile repeaters.

On Thursday, 2 November 2023 at 10:35:49 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
> Peter wrote:
> >
> > WIFI calling should work (Vodafone) but doesn't really, especially for
> > incoming.
> Surprised, wifi calling on O2 has improved my call quality/reliability
> (both for wifi on home broadband, and on a mifi on ee)
>
> have you spoken to voda?
> > So, a few years ago, I bought one of those repeaters. It kind of
> > worked for a few months and then packed up. It was obviously
> > unapproved in the UK;
> There *are* now legal uk mobile repeaters.

Wi-Fi calling on O2 had poor audio quality pre-Covid (where Voip was fine), but may have improved.

SMS works well beyond the range of voice calls.

RF amp's are a bad idea since the base station will tell your phone to reduce power and they **** things up for other users.

OTOH a [passive] high gain antenna will work just fine.

PS what sis the OP expect to find in an RF signal booster than a couple of RF amp's (one on Tx the other Rx)?

Quite likely the failure is just the MNO changing frequency bands.

On Thu 02/11/2023 12:08, notya...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, 2 November 2023 at 10:35:49 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Peter wrote:
>>>
>>> WIFI calling should work (Vodafone) but doesn't really, especially for
>>> incoming.
>> Surprised, wifi calling on O2 has improved my call quality/reliability
>> (both for wifi on home broadband, and on a mifi on ee)
>>
>> have you spoken to voda?
>>> So, a few years ago, I bought one of those repeaters. It kind of
>>> worked for a few months and then packed up. It was obviously
>>> unapproved in the UK;
>> There *are* now legal uk mobile repeaters.
>
> Wi-Fi calling on O2 had poor audio quality pre-Covid (where Voip was fine), but may have improved.
>
> SMS works well beyond the range of voice calls.
>
> RF amp's are a bad idea since the base station will tell your phone to reduce power and they **** things up for other users.
>
> OTOH a [passive] high gain antenna will work just fine.
>
> PS what sis the OP expect to find in an RF signal booster than a couple of RF amp's (one on Tx the other Rx)?
>
> Quite likely the failure is just the MNO changing frequency bands.

SMS is carried on the control channel which always runs at full power
and has non-directional aerials.

Don't forget that in a number of places VF has now switched 3G off -
which might have something to do with it?

My last mobile was a Nokia 2270 Flip-phone. I really disliked the flaky
KaiOS, pressing the main button to call up the long list of applications
was rarely a straightforward process, apparently depending on the phase
of the moon. Also, the keyboard procedure when entering a new contact
was extremely frustrating, it automatically suggested letter
combinations that I had never seen before, and never wanted.
So when I lost the mobile, I was not too worried. I replaced it
with another Nokia flip-phone, but this is a different model, a 2260.
And it is great, it reverts to a non-KaiOS system, it just does what
you want, and the keypad is logical instead of the 2720's built-in
auto-complete system. And it doesn't have all those stupid social
network application buttons that I will never use.

Retro is better!

--
Davey.

>
> SMS is carried on the control channel which always runs at full power
> and has non-directional aerials.
>
>

I believe you mentioned this in a previous post ... and I did ask if the
SMS was carried on a different antenna.

I am guessing that it is not, but I dont think there was any response to
that.

btw - I would suggest that the only antenna which is completely
"non-directional" would have to be an isotropic (point source) radiator

On Thu 02/11/2023 14:56, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
>
>>
>> SMS is carried on the control channel which always runs at full power
>> and has non-directional aerials.
>>
>>
>
> I believe you mentioned this in a previous post ... and I did ask if the
> SMS was carried on a different antenna.
>
> I am guessing that it is not, but I dont think there was any response to
> that.
>
> btw  - I would suggest that the only antenna which is completely
> "non-directional" would have to be an isotropic (point source) radiator

OK, I'll forgive your pedantry. The control channel is usually on a pair
of co-linears so they radiate equally in every horizontal direction.
That is why sometimes you make (or take) a call and it fails to connect.
If you are not too far from a site that is sectored (not all are) the
system control might hear your handshake on more than one sector aerial
and allocate it to you, but when your mobile moves there is no
reciprocity and the call fails. Orange were devils for that in the
earlier days, and Cellnet (as was then) could establish a call and then
shift it to another aerial whilst you were in traffic and the call
dropped. I had that happen to me many times. I'm now on GiffGaff (O2)
and it is dramatically better.
On the other hand, in those days, VF were much better at it. If I left
home in Harrogate to go to a customer in York (about 16 miles roughly
east) VF would hand over four or five time most, whereas when we moved
to EE it could be eight or even ten times if the call held up, and the
first one of those was always at the bottom of our road just 1.2 miles
into my journey. Both of these examples were on car phones, not handsets.

On 02/11/2023 16:26, Woody wrote:
> On Thu 02/11/2023 14:56, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> SMS is carried on the control channel which always runs at full power
>>> and has non-directional aerials.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I believe you mentioned this in a previous post ... and I did ask if
>> the SMS was carried on a different antenna.
>>
>> I am guessing that it is not, but I dont think there was any response
>> to that.
>>
>> btw  - I would suggest that the only antenna which is completely
>> "non-directional" would have to be an isotropic (point source) radiator
>
>
> OK, I'll forgive your pedantry. The control channel is usually on a pair
> of co-linears so they radiate equally in every horizontal direction.
> That is why sometimes you make (or take) a call and it fails to connect.
> If you are not too far from a site that is sectored (not all are) the
> system control might hear your handshake on more than one sector aerial
> and allocate it to you, but when your mobile moves there is no
> reciprocity and the call fails. Orange were devils for that in the
> earlier days, and Cellnet (as was then) could establish a call and then
> shift it to another aerial whilst you were in traffic and the call
> dropped. I had that happen to me many times. I'm now on GiffGaff (O2)
> and it is dramatically better.
> On the other hand, in those days, VF were much better at it. If I left
> home in Harrogate to go to a customer in York (about 16 miles roughly
> east) VF would hand over four or five time most, whereas when we moved
> to EE it could be eight or even ten times if the call held up, and the
> first one of those was always at the bottom of our road just 1.2 miles
> into my journey. Both of these examples were on car phones, not handsets.
>

No pedantry involved.

You implied that the "control channel" used a different "non
directional" antenna, and you have provided no explanation of how this
control channel antenna array differs from the antenna system used by
"the rest" of the BTS

How did you detect the call handovers ?

On Thu 02/11/2023 17:26, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
> On 02/11/2023 16:26, Woody wrote:
>> On Thu 02/11/2023 14:56, Abandoned Trolley wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> SMS is carried on the control channel which always runs at full
>>>> power and has non-directional aerials.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I believe you mentioned this in a previous post ... and I did ask if
>>> the SMS was carried on a different antenna.
>>>
>>> I am guessing that it is not, but I dont think there was any response
>>> to that.
>>>
>>> btw  - I would suggest that the only antenna which is completely
>>> "non-directional" would have to be an isotropic (point source) radiator
>>
>>
>> OK, I'll forgive your pedantry. The control channel is usually on a
>> pair of co-linears so they radiate equally in every horizontal
>> direction. That is why sometimes you make (or take) a call and it
>> fails to connect. If you are not too far from a site that is sectored
>> (not all are) the system control might hear your handshake on more
>> than one sector aerial and allocate it to you, but when your mobile
>> moves there is no reciprocity and the call fails. Orange were devils
>> for that in the earlier days, and Cellnet (as was then) could
>> establish a call and then shift it to another aerial whilst you were
>> in traffic and the call dropped. I had that happen to me many times.
>> I'm now on GiffGaff (O2) and it is dramatically better.
>> On the other hand, in those days, VF were much better at it. If I left
>> home in Harrogate to go to a customer in York (about 16 miles roughly
>> east) VF would hand over four or five time most, whereas when we moved
>> to EE it could be eight or even ten times if the call held up, and the
>> first one of those was always at the bottom of our road just 1.2 miles
>> into my journey. Both of these examples were on car phones, not handsets.
>>
>
>
> No pedantry involved.
>
> You implied that the "control channel" used a different "non
> directional" antenna, and you have provided no explanation of how this
> control channel antenna array differs from the antenna system used by
> "the rest" of the BTS
>
>
> How did you detect the call handovers ?
>
>
>
>
Slight speech dropouts and variations in audio level (believe it or not)
olus good knowledge of the BTS locations in the area.

O
>>
>>
>> No pedantry involved.
>>
>> You implied that the "control channel" used a different "non
>> directional" antenna, and you have provided no explanation of how this
>> control channel antenna array differs from the antenna system used by
>> "the rest" of the BTS
>>
>>
>> How did you detect the call handovers ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Slight speech dropouts and variations in audio level (believe it or not)
> olus good knowledge of the BTS locations in the area.

speech dropouts and level variations are all part of the "charm" of
mobile voice telephony - its a low quality service

any further info on your dual antenna theory ?

On 10:09 2 Nov 2023, Peter said:

> We live in the countryside and there is almost no signal.
>
> With FTTP; we can make calls but obviously receiving ones to a mobile
> doesn't worki. Also one occassionally needs to receive an SMS for
> some financial auth purpose.
>
> WIFI calling should work (Vodafone) but doesn't really, especially
> for incoming.
>
> So, a few years ago, I bought one of those repeaters. It kind of
> worked for a few months and then packed up. It was obviously
> unapproved in the UK; the paperwork from the chinese mfg (the front
> was a UK company) described it as "HIFI amplifier" :)
>
> I took it to bits and it was just a simple microwave amplifier. Two
> channels.
>
> Recently I decided to tackle this issue again and looked at what else
> is around. I found the above outfit. Now they call themselves
> https://www.docallboosters.com. Bought this one
> https://www.docallboosters.com/product/pro-mobile-signal-
> booster-voice-300-sq-m/
>
> It worked for a couple of months and then stopped.
>
> I found that the front panel config is lost when the power fails. It
> is not stored in an eeprom or similar. And we do get power cuts or
> brief interruptions, so this thing is basically useless.
>
> I wanted to return it for repair but the company is stalling, and
> asking for photos and just now a video. This is really weird, and I
> wonder if this is not another illegal product. It is obviously an
> "intentional emitter" category and radiating probably a few watts on
> 900/1800MHz is an interesting proposition. But they do work...
>
> An views on this?
>
> Otherwise it looks like �295 down the pan, and it is now outside the
> CC Section 75 claimback period.

If the problem is having to re-enter settings after short power outages
otherwise it won't work, then could this be solved with a small UPS?

Andy Burns wrote:

> wifi calling on O2 has improved my call quality/reliability (both for
> wifi on home broadband, and on a mifi on ee)

Saying that has jinxed it of course. It'd been perfect from 1st June
when I moved from VM to O₂ but now I've had four "silent audio" calls
since yesterday, which after hanging up and either re-dialling, or
waiting for the other side to re-dial were OK on 2nd attempt.

Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:

>If the problem is having to re-enter settings after short power outages
>otherwise it won't work, then could this be solved with a small UPS?

Yes, sure, but that is ridiculous ;) I do hw and sw design for a
living (45 years + now) and would never produce crap like this.

On 02/11/2023 10:09, Peter wrote:
> We live in the countryside and there is almost no signal.
>
> With FTTP; we can make calls but obviously receiving ones to a mobile
> doesn't worki. Also one occassionally needs to receive an SMS for some
> financial auth purpose.
>
> WIFI calling should work (Vodafone) but doesn't really, especially for
> incoming.
>
> So, a few years ago, I bought one of those repeaters. It kind of
> worked for a few months and then packed up. It was obviously
> unapproved in the UK; the paperwork from the chinese mfg (the front
> was a UK company) described it as "HIFI amplifier" :)
>
> I took it to bits and it was just a simple microwave amplifier. Two
> channels.
>
> Recently I decided to tackle this issue again and looked at what else
> is around. I found the above outfit. Now they call themselves
> https://www.docallboosters.com. Bought this one
> https://www.docallboosters.com/product/pro-mobile-signal-booster-voice-300-sq-m/
>
> It worked for a couple of months and then stopped.
>
> I found that the front panel config is lost when the power fails. It
> is not stored in an eeprom or similar. And we do get power cuts or
> brief interruptions, so this thing is basically useless.
>
> I wanted to return it for repair but the company is stalling, and
> asking for photos and just now a video. This is really weird, and I
> wonder if this is not another illegal product. It is obviously an
> "intentional emitter" category and radiating probably a few watts on
> 900/1800MHz is an interesting proposition. But they do work...
>
> An views on this?
>
> Otherwise it looks like £295 down the pan, and it is now outside the
> CC Section 75 claimback period.
>
That thing has 500 good reviews so they can't all be fake.
If your problem is power outages the obvious solution is already
suggested - get a UPS. Otherwise more expensive, certified legal devices
are available.
https://signalboosters.co.uk/products/cel-fi-connect-c41-self-install-solution-for-home-office

On 15:52 3 Nov 2023, Postman Pat said:
> Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>If the problem is having to re-enter settings after short power
>>outages otherwise it won't work, then could this be solved with a
>>small UPS?
>
> Yes, sure, but that is ridiculous ;) I do hw and sw design for a
> living (45 years + now) and would never produce crap like this.

Some of the goods made in China are a true revelation. I never knew so
many essential corners could be cut and yet the goods still get put on
sale. You must be tearing your hair out as a designer to see this going
on.

The Chinese concept of a responsible manufacturer seems different to our
own. Many Chinese vendors can't be contacted a year after buying the goods
and their web site has vanished. I bet they don't have a phrase in Chinese
for "consumer protection".

Having said that, I might still be tempted to get a super-value Chinese
mobile for my next phone because customer complaints posted online should
expose the flaws. I hope!

On 05/11/2023 14:07, Pamela wrote:
> On 15:52 3 Nov 2023, Postman Pat said:
>> Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> If the problem is having to re-enter settings after short power
>>> outages otherwise it won't work, then could this be solved with a
>>> small UPS?
>>
>> Yes, sure, but that is ridiculous ;) I do hw and sw design for a
>> living (45 years + now) and would never produce crap like this.
>
> Some of the goods made in China are a true revelation. I never knew so
> many essential corners could be cut and yet the goods still get put on
> sale. You must be tearing your hair out as a designer to see this going
> on.
>
> The Chinese concept of a responsible manufacturer seems different to our
> own. Many Chinese vendors can't be contacted a year after buying the goods
> and their web site has vanished. I bet they don't have a phrase in Chinese
> for "consumer protection".
>
> Having said that, I might still be tempted to get a super-value Chinese
> mobile for my next phone because customer complaints posted online should
> expose the flaws. I hope!

on the other hand ... I dont suppose UK trading standards officers
would take too much notice of rubbish products being exported from the
UK via ephemeral web sites