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aus+uk / aus.cars / Re: aerial

SubjectAuthor
* aerialMax
`* aerialXeno
 +* aerialYosemite Sam
 |`* aerialXeno
 | `- aerialYosemite Sam
 `* aerialjonz@ nothere.com
  `* aerialNoddy
   `* aerialXeno
    `* aerialjonz@ nothere.com
     `* aerialNoddy
      +* aerialXeno
      |`* aerialYosemite Sam
      | `* aerialClocky
      |  +- aerialClocky
      |  `* aerialXeno
      |   `* aerialYosemite Sam
      |    `- aerialXeno
      `- aerialYosemite Sam

1
aerial

<t5c80k$16kh$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: max...@val.morgan (Max)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: aerial
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 09:27:15 +1000
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 by: Max - Mon, 9 May 2022 23:27 UTC

Do any modern cars have aerials fitted which are used for phone calls
and internet?

Re: aerial

<jdtrfjFio91U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: aerial
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 10:55:12 +1000
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In-Reply-To: <t5c80k$16kh$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 by: Xeno - Tue, 10 May 2022 00:55 UTC

On 10/5/2022 9:27 am, Max wrote:
> Do any modern cars have aerials fitted which are used for phone calls
> and internet?

Short answer - no. The modern phones no longer have an external
connector for a 2/3/4/5G signal so the inbuilt antenna is all you have
for connection to the cellular network. Ergo, the car manufacturer does
not fit an aerial to the car as standard nor do they make provision for
same.

Sat phone would be a different matter and you can get aftermarket
external antennae for those. Never having had a sat phone, I cannot
speak from experience on this matter.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: aerial

<jdtvn3FjfgsU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: fel...@invalid.com (Yosemite Sam)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: aerial
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 12:07:37 +1000
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 by: Yosemite Sam - Tue, 10 May 2022 02:07 UTC

On 10/05/2022 10:55 am, Xeno wrote:
> On 10/5/2022 9:27 am, Max wrote:
>> Do any modern cars have aerials fitted which are used for phone calls
>> and internet?
>
> Short answer - no. The modern phones no longer have an external
> connector for a 2/3/4/5G signal so the inbuilt antenna is all you have
> for connection to the cellular network. Ergo, the car manufacturer
> does not fit an aerial to the car as standard nor do they make
> provision for same.
>
> Sat phone would be a different matter and you can get aftermarket
> external antennae for those. Never having had a sat phone, I cannot
> speak from experience on this matter.
>

I can!!  I have sat on my phone!  :)

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

Q:When is noddy not lying?
A:Anytime his lips aren't moving!

FUCK PUTIN!!

Re: aerial

<jdu80eFktu1U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: aerial
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 14:29:02 +1000
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 by: Xeno - Tue, 10 May 2022 04:29 UTC

On 10/5/2022 12:07 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 10/05/2022 10:55 am, Xeno wrote:
>> On 10/5/2022 9:27 am, Max wrote:
>>> Do any modern cars have aerials fitted which are used for phone calls
>>> and internet?
>>
>> Short answer - no. The modern phones no longer have an external
>> connector for a 2/3/4/5G signal so the inbuilt antenna is all you have
>> for connection to the cellular network. Ergo, the car manufacturer
>> does not fit an aerial to the car as standard nor do they make
>> provision for same.
>>
>> Sat phone would be a different matter and you can get aftermarket
>> external antennae for those. Never having had a sat phone, I cannot
>> speak from experience on this matter.
>>
>
> I can!!  I have sat on my phone!  :)
>
>
Did your phone suffer much from the experience?

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: aerial

<jdud18FlqfvU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: fel...@invalid.com (Yosemite Sam)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: aerial
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 15:54:54 +1000
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 by: Yosemite Sam - Tue, 10 May 2022 05:54 UTC

On 10/05/2022 2:29 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 10/5/2022 12:07 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> On 10/05/2022 10:55 am, Xeno wrote:
>>> On 10/5/2022 9:27 am, Max wrote:
>>>> Do any modern cars have aerials fitted which are used for phone
>>>> calls and internet?
>>>
>>> Short answer - no. The modern phones no longer have an external
>>> connector for a 2/3/4/5G signal so the inbuilt antenna is all you
>>> have for connection to the cellular network. Ergo, the car
>>> manufacturer does not fit an aerial to the car as standard nor do
>>> they make provision for same.
>>>
>>> Sat phone would be a different matter and you can get aftermarket
>>> external antennae for those. Never having had a sat phone, I cannot
>>> speak from experience on this matter.
>>>
>>
>> I can!!  I have sat on my phone!  :)
>>
>>
> Did your phone suffer much from the experience?
>

no, since is was in a case and the seat was soft it didn't suffer at
all. black case, black car seat was a major contributing factor. also
the main reason I keep leaving the phone in the car. I often fail to
notice it!

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

Q:When is noddy not lying?
A:Anytime his lips aren't moving!

FUCK PUTIN!!

Re: aerial

<bd55692d-bd75-406c-924d-52ba689f99a0n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: aerial
From: johnhhhi...@gmail.com (jonz@ nothere.com)
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 by: jonz@ nothere.com - Tue, 10 May 2022 08:02 UTC

On Tuesday, 10 May 2022 at 10:55:17 UTC+10, Xeno wrote:
> On 10/5/2022 9:27 am, Max wrote:
> > Do any modern cars have aerials fitted which are used for phone calls
> > and internet?
> Short answer - no. The modern phones no longer have an external
> connector for a 2/3/4/5G signal so the inbuilt antenna is all you have
> for connection to the cellular network. Ergo, the car manufacturer does
> not fit an aerial to the car as standard nor do they make provision for
> same.
>
> Sat phone would be a different matter and you can get aftermarket
> external antennae for those. Never having had a sat phone, I cannot
> speak from experience on this matter.
~~~~~~~~~~
Why not,? lack of experience has never bothered you before.
>
> --
> Xeno
>
>
> Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
> (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: aerial

<t5f9iu$tm8$1@dont-email.me>

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From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: aerial
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 13:12:28 +1000
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 by: Noddy - Wed, 11 May 2022 03:12 UTC

On 10/05/2022 6:02 pm, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, 10 May 2022 at 10:55:17 UTC+10, Xeno wrote:

>> Sat phone would be a different matter and you can get aftermarket
>> external antennae for those. Never having had a sat phone, I cannot
>> speak from experience on this matter.

> ~~~~~~~~~~
> Why not,? lack of experience has never bothered you before.

Indeed, it's his complete lack of anything like relevant experience that
forces him to satisfy his ego by inventing ridiculous concepts such as
"transferred experience" :)

I *still* laugh at that one :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: aerial

<je2qbvFh74iU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: aerial
Date: 11 May 2022 22:06:55 GMT
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 by: Xeno - Wed, 11 May 2022 22:06 UTC

Noddy <me@home.com> wrote:
> On 10/05/2022 6:02 pm, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 10 May 2022 at 10:55:17 UTC+10, Xeno wrote:
>
>>> Sat phone would be a different matter and you can get aftermarket
>>> external antennae for those. Never having had a sat phone, I cannot
>>> speak from experience on this matter.
>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~
>> Why not,? lack of experience has never bothered you before.
>
> Indeed, it's his complete lack of anything like relevant experience that
> forces him to satisfy his ego by inventing ridiculous concepts such as
> "transferred experience" :)
>
> I *still* laugh at that one :)
>
Of course you would, the concept would most certainly be *alien* to someone
who couldn’t even *qualify* for an apprenticeship. Oddly enough, had you
ever done an apprenticeship in Victoria in the 80s or since, you would be
well versed in the concept since that was one of the *features* of self
paced competency based training - transferable skills and experience. All
you do with your bullshit outpourings is *confirm* that you’ve never done
any apprenticeship ever. Well done you!

--
Xeno

Re: aerial

<8c58c574-8cc7-4e0c-a8d1-76d834be2b15n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: aerial
From: johnhhhi...@gmail.com (jonz@ nothere.com)
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 by: jonz@ nothere.com - Thu, 12 May 2022 10:07 UTC

On Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 08:06:58 UTC+10, Xeno wrote:
> Noddy <m...@home.com> wrote:
> > On 10/05/2022 6:02 pm, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, 10 May 2022 at 10:55:17 UTC+10, Xeno wrote:
> >
> >>> Sat phone would be a different matter and you can get aftermarket
> >>> external antennae for those. Never having had a sat phone, I cannot
> >>> speak from experience on this matter.
> >
> >> ~~~~~~~~~~
> >> Why not,? lack of experience has never bothered you before.
> >
> > Indeed, it's his complete lack of anything like relevant experience that
> > forces him to satisfy his ego by inventing ridiculous concepts such as
> > "transferred experience" :)
> >
> > I *still* laugh at that one :)
> >
> Of course you would,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Natch, he and I, were *both* commenting on *your* lack of experience in, well, *everything* really. (G)
(Except, of course, yer penchant for self aggrandisement and bullshit..)

the concept would most certainly be *alien* to someone
> who couldn’t even *qualify* for an apprenticeship. Oddly enough, had you
> ever done an apprenticeship in Victoria in the 80s or since, you would be
> well versed in the concept since that was one of the *features* of self
> paced competency based training - transferable skills and experience. All
> you do with your bullshit outpourings is *confirm* that you’ve never done
> any apprenticeship ever. Well done you!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Utterance #475 from the flops bullshit book. (All to do with *transferable skills* Hahaha)
>
>
> --
> Xeno

Re: aerial

<t5imem$jdb$1@dont-email.me>

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Subject: Re: aerial
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 by: Noddy - Thu, 12 May 2022 10:10 UTC

On 12/05/2022 8:07 pm, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
> On Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 08:06:58 UTC+10, Xeno wrote:

>>>
>>> Indeed, it's his complete lack of anything like relevant experience that
>>> forces him to satisfy his ego by inventing ridiculous concepts such as
>>> "transferred experience" :)
>>>
>>> I *still* laugh at that one :)
>>>
>> Of course you would,
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Natch, he and I, were *both* commenting on *your* lack of experience in, well, *everything* really. (G)
> (Except, of course, yer penchant for self aggrandisement and bullshit.)
>
> the concept would most certainly be *alien* to someone
>> who couldn’t even *qualify* for an apprenticeship. Oddly enough, had you
>> ever done an apprenticeship in Victoria in the 80s or since, you would be
>> well versed in the concept since that was one of the *features* of self
>> paced competency based training - transferable skills and experience. All
>> you do with your bullshit outpourings is *confirm* that you’ve never done
>> any apprenticeship ever. Well done you!

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Utterance #475 from the flops bullshit book. (All to do with *transferable skills* Hahaha)

As Felix once commented in response to his ridiculous claim, "you can
relate an experience, but you cannot transfer an experience" :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: aerial

<je454dFoog6U2@mid.individual.net>

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From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: aerial
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 20:16:45 +1000
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 by: Xeno - Thu, 12 May 2022 10:16 UTC

On 12/5/2022 8:10 pm, Noddy wrote:

> As Felix once commented in response to his ridiculous claim, "you can
> relate an experience, but you cannot transfer an experience" :)
>
OMFG, you are incredibly obtuse. The concept is way beyond your ken.
Easy to see you never ever set foot into an apprentice class ever.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: aerial

<je4b18Fpq0dU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: fel...@invalid.com (Yosemite Sam)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: aerial
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 21:57:33 +1000
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 by: Yosemite Sam - Thu, 12 May 2022 11:57 UTC

On 12/05/2022 8:10 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 12/05/2022 8:07 pm, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 08:06:58 UTC+10, Xeno wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, it's his complete lack of anything like relevant experience
>>>> that
>>>> forces him to satisfy his ego by inventing ridiculous concepts such as
>>>> "transferred experience" :)
>>>>
>>>> I *still* laugh at that one :)
>>>>
>>> Of course you would,
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>   Natch, he and I, were *both* commenting on *your* lack of
>> experience in, well, *everything* really. (G)
>>        (Except, of course, yer penchant for self aggrandisement and
>> bullshit.)
>>
>>   the concept would most certainly be *alien* to someone
>>> who couldn’t even *qualify* for an apprenticeship. Oddly enough, had
>>> you
>>> ever done an apprenticeship in Victoria in the 80s or since, you
>>> would be
>>> well versed in the concept since that was one of the *features* of self
>>> paced competency based training - transferable skills and
>>> experience. All
>>> you do with your bullshit outpourings is *confirm* that you’ve never
>>> done
>>> any apprenticeship ever. Well done you!
>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>      Utterance #475 from the flops bullshit book. (All to do with
>> *transferable skills* Hahaha)
>
> As Felix once commented in response to his ridiculous claim, "you can
> relate an experience, but you cannot transfer an experience" :)
>
>

OMG I'm being quoted! I must have said something worthwhile..

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

Q:When is noddy not lying?
A:Anytime his lips aren't moving!

FUCK PUTIN!!

Re: aerial

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From: fel...@invalid.com (Yosemite Sam)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: aerial
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 by: Yosemite Sam - Thu, 12 May 2022 11:58 UTC

On 12/05/2022 8:16 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 12/5/2022 8:10 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>> As Felix once commented in response to his ridiculous claim, "you can
>> relate an experience, but you cannot transfer an experience" :)
>>
> OMFG, you are incredibly obtuse. The concept is way beyond your ken.
> Easy to see you never ever set foot into an apprentice class ever.
>
>

so what is the exact definition/concept of "transferred experience"?

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

Q:When is noddy not lying?
A:Anytime his lips aren't moving!

FUCK PUTIN!!

Re: aerial

<t5k4ge$cop$1@dont-email.me>

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From: notgo...@happen.com (Clocky)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: aerial
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 07:16:24 +0800
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 by: Clocky - Thu, 12 May 2022 23:16 UTC

On 12/05/2022 7:58 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 12/05/2022 8:16 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 12/5/2022 8:10 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>> As Felix once commented in response to his ridiculous claim, "you can
>>> relate an experience, but you cannot transfer an experience" :)
>>>
>> OMFG, you are incredibly obtuse. The concept is way beyond your ken.
>> Easy to see you never ever set foot into an apprentice class ever.
>>
>>
>
> so what is the exact definition/concept of "transferred experience"?
>
>

To be fair the idea of transferring experience does seem odd. Experience
is gained through doing. You can relay your experience to someone less
experienced and they can certainly learn from it, but that's
transferring knowledge but the experience itself is not transferred.

It's like taking a roller coaster and then describing every detail of
the ride to someone who hasn't been on it. Sure, they might get a fair
idea of what to expect and when but the experience itself has not been
transferred to that person.

I mean we see it all the time in here. NoddyLiar gets educated and none
of it gets transferred into his experience. He just keeps on keeping on
in ignorance and in fact he fights it. None of it gets through his thick
skull which is why he's the worst kind of person to take your car to.

As an obvious recent example he can't pinpoint a misfire on a Holden V8
without swapping parts and sending people on their way in hope when
anyone qualified and competent would have pinpointed the problem in
seconds using a scan tool by analysing the long term fuel trim data for
each cylinder. This is probably one of the most basic diagnostics one
could do and he doesn't have a clue.

Yet people here believe the incompetent twat is a qualified mechanic
that built race engines. Well Les found out the hard way that he's all
walk and no talk.

Re: aerial

<t5k4ia$cop$2@dont-email.me>

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Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: aerial
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 07:17:31 +0800
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 by: Clocky - Thu, 12 May 2022 23:17 UTC

On 13/05/2022 7:16 am, Clocky wrote:
> On 12/05/2022 7:58 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> On 12/05/2022 8:16 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>> On 12/5/2022 8:10 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>
>>>> As Felix once commented in response to his ridiculous claim, "you
>>>> can relate an experience, but you cannot transfer an experience" :)
>>>>
>>> OMFG, you are incredibly obtuse. The concept is way beyond your ken.
>>> Easy to see you never ever set foot into an apprentice class ever.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> so what is the exact definition/concept of "transferred experience"?
>>
>>
>
> To be fair the idea of transferring experience does seem odd. Experience
> is gained through doing. You can relay your experience to someone less
> experienced and they can certainly learn from it, but that's
> transferring knowledge but the experience itself is not transferred.
>
> It's like taking a roller coaster and then describing every detail of
> the ride to someone who hasn't been on it. Sure, they might get a fair
> idea of what to expect and when but the experience itself has not been
> transferred to that person.
>
> I mean we see it all the time in here. NoddyLiar gets educated and none
> of it gets transferred into his experience. He just keeps on keeping on
> in ignorance and in fact he fights it. None of it gets through his thick
> skull which is why he's the worst kind of person to take your car to.
>
> As an obvious recent example he can't pinpoint a misfire on a Holden V8
> without swapping parts and sending people on their way in hope when
> anyone qualified and competent would have pinpointed the problem in
> seconds using a scan tool by analysing the long term fuel trim data for
> each cylinder. This is probably one of the most basic diagnostics one
> could do and he doesn't have a clue.
>
> Yet people here believe the incompetent twat is a qualified mechanic
> that built race engines. Well Les found out the hard way that he's all
> walk and no talk.
>

*all talk and no walk* is what I meant obviously.

Re: aerial

<je5vnkF4sheU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: aerial
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 12:56:48 +1000
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 by: Xeno - Fri, 13 May 2022 02:56 UTC

On 13/5/2022 9:16 am, Clocky wrote:
> On 12/05/2022 7:58 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> On 12/05/2022 8:16 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>> On 12/5/2022 8:10 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>
>>>> As Felix once commented in response to his ridiculous claim, "you
>>>> can relate an experience, but you cannot transfer an experience" :)
>>>>
>>> OMFG, you are incredibly obtuse. The concept is way beyond your ken.
>>> Easy to see you never ever set foot into an apprentice class ever.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> so what is the exact definition/concept of "transferred experience"?
>>
>>
>
> To be fair the idea of transferring experience does seem odd. Experience

It's not at all odd if you think about it. For a start, I am not talking
about transferring experience to another person. What I am on about is
you gaining experience with some task, some problem, then using that
experience, along with any skills and knowledge gained, in a different
but similar scenario. The Victorian TAFE automotive apprentice training
system has been built on that concept since 1978. As I have stated
previously, all apprentice classes in automotive in Victoria were self
paced competency based from the 80s, motor mechanics being the pilot
program from 1978. To that end, all classes revolved around students
completing practical tasks and picking up the relevant underpinning
theory as they progressed and became *competent*.
FWIW, experience is an intangible but, as you are aware, it makes the
tasks *real*. It is encapsulated in this adage; I hear and I forget. I
see and I remember. I do and I understand - misattributed to Confucius
It relates to the three learning domains commonly referred to as
knowledge, skills and attitudes (KSA). this taxonomy of learning
behaviours can be thought of as "the goals of the learning process"
(Bloom, 1956)"
What we did in TAFE is best described in this Wikipedia article;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_learning

Some relevant excerpts;

students must do more than just listen in order to learn.
They must read, write, discuss, and be engaged in solving
problems. This process relates to the three learning domains
referred to as knowledge, skills and attitudes (KSA). This
taxonomy of learning behaviors can be thought of as "the
goals of the learning process." In particular, students
must engage in such higher-order thinking tasks as analysis,
synthesis, and evaluation.

and

There are a wide range of alternatives for the term active
learning, such as: learning through play, technology-based
learning, activity-based learning, group work, project
method, etc. The common factors in these are some significant
qualities and characteristics of active learning. Active
learning is the opposite of passive learning; it is
learner-centered, not teacher-centered, and requires more than
just listening; the active participation of each and every
student is a necessary aspect in active learning. Students
must be doing things and simultaneously think about the work
done and the purpose behind it so that they can enhance their
higher order thinking capabilities.

Many research studies have proven that active learning as a
strategy has promoted achievement levels and some others say
that content mastery is possible through active learning
strategies. However, some students as well as teachers find it
difficult to adapt to the new learning technique.

There's a lot in it and, when you look into it, you can see why Darren
just doesn't get it. He's never progressed beyond the concrete stage in
his learning. And it shows.

> is gained through doing. You can relay your experience to someone less
> experienced and they can certainly learn from it, but that's
> transferring knowledge but the experience itself is not transferred.
>
> It's like taking a roller coaster and then describing every detail of
> the ride to someone who hasn't been on it. Sure, they might get a fair
> idea of what to expect and when but the experience itself has not been
> transferred to that person.

Again, not about transferring *experience* to another person, instead
transferring the "experience", along with the skills and knowledge
gained from it, into a new problem. IOW, you're not going in cold - you
been there, done that. The apprentice level system is based on that sort
of *experience building*. Level 1 is all about terminology, layouts, etc
- basic stuff. Level 2 is where the students get their hands dirty with
*operation*. They strip down assemblies and sub-assemblies, identify
components (that they handle) and study the system operation, measure up
and compare against specs, reassemble and test. In level 3 they get to
diagnose faults, then verify, through disassembly or testing, the
validity of their diagnosis. What the apprentice does is transfer the
previous experience, and whatever skills and knowledge they gleaned from
it, across to a similar task or to progressively more complex tasks. The
*hands on experience* is key to the knowledge and skills building processes.

A sub-point is this;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experiential_learning

The general concept of learning through experience is ancient.
Around 350 BC, Aristotle wrote in the Nicomachean Ethics "for
the things we have to learn before we can do them, we learn by
doing them".
>
> I mean we see it all the time in here. NoddyLiar gets educated and none
> of it gets transferred into his experience. He just keeps on keeping on
> in ignorance and in fact he fights it. None of it gets through his thick
> skull which is why he's the worst kind of person to take your car to.

Well, Darren has issues. For one, he is stuck in the *concrete* learning
stage. Most people progress from there into the abstract stage by age 12
or thereabouts and is the reason secondary school teaching (& learning)
is totally different from primary school teaching (& learning). Explains
also why Darren couldn't cope with secondary school, even a secondary
tech, and dropped out before completion. I'm also betting he copped a
lot of bullying which explains his attitude and behaviour here.
>
> As an obvious recent example he can't pinpoint a misfire on a Holden V8
> without swapping parts and sending people on their way in hope when
> anyone qualified and competent would have pinpointed the problem in
> seconds using a scan tool by analysing the long term fuel trim data for
> each cylinder. This is probably one of the most basic diagnostics one
> could do and he doesn't have a clue.
>
> Yet people here believe the incompetent twat is a qualified mechanic
> that built race engines. Well Les found out the hard way that he's all
> BULLSHIT.
>
I fixed your error. You're welcome! ;-)

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: aerial

<jeedi0Fnl42U1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=14620&group=aus.cars#14620

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From: fel...@invalid.com (Yosemite Sam)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: aerial
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 17:42:14 +1000
Lines: 154
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References: <t5c80k$16kh$1@gioia.aioe.org> <jdtrfjFio91U1@mid.individual.net>
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In-Reply-To: <je5vnkF4sheU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Yosemite Sam - Mon, 16 May 2022 07:42 UTC

On 13/05/2022 12:56 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 13/5/2022 9:16 am, Clocky wrote:
>> On 12/05/2022 7:58 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> On 12/05/2022 8:16 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>> On 12/5/2022 8:10 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As Felix once commented in response to his ridiculous claim, "you
>>>>> can relate an experience, but you cannot transfer an experience" :)
>>>>>
>>>> OMFG, you are incredibly obtuse. The concept is way beyond your
>>>> ken. Easy to see you never ever set foot into an apprentice class
>>>> ever.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> so what is the exact definition/concept of "transferred experience"?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> To be fair the idea of transferring experience does seem odd. Experience
>
> It's not at all odd if you think about it. For a start, I am not
> talking about transferring experience to another person. What I am on
> about is you gaining experience with some task, some problem, then
> using that experience, along with any skills and knowledge gained, in
> a different but similar scenario.

yep. makes perfect sense. noddyliar is spinning and lying as per usual.

> The Victorian TAFE automotive apprentice training system has been
> built on that concept since 1978. As I have stated previously, all
> apprentice classes in automotive in Victoria were self paced
> competency based from the 80s, motor mechanics being the pilot program
> from 1978. To that end, all classes revolved around students
> completing practical tasks and picking up the relevant underpinning
> theory as they progressed and became *competent*.
> FWIW, experience is an intangible but, as you are aware, it makes the
> tasks *real*. It is encapsulated in this adage; I hear and I forget. I
> see and I remember. I do and I understand - misattributed to Confucius
> It relates to the three learning domains commonly referred to as
> knowledge, skills and attitudes (KSA). this taxonomy of learning
> behaviours can be thought of as "the goals of the learning process"
> (Bloom, 1956)"
> What we did in TAFE is best described in this Wikipedia article;
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_learning
>
> Some relevant excerpts;
>
>    students must do more than just listen in order to learn.
>    They must read, write, discuss, and be engaged in solving
>    problems. This process relates to the three learning domains
>    referred to as knowledge, skills and attitudes (KSA). This
>    taxonomy of learning behaviors can be thought of as "the
>    goals of the learning process." In particular, students
>    must engage in such higher-order thinking tasks as analysis,
>    synthesis, and evaluation.
>
> and
>
>    There are a wide range of alternatives for the term active
>    learning, such as: learning through play, technology-based
>    learning, activity-based learning, group work, project
>    method, etc. The common factors in these are some significant
>    qualities and characteristics of active learning. Active
>    learning is the opposite of passive learning; it is
>    learner-centered, not teacher-centered, and requires more than
>    just listening; the active participation of each and every
>    student is a necessary aspect in active learning. Students
>    must be doing things and simultaneously think about the work
>    done and the purpose behind it so that they can enhance their
>    higher order thinking capabilities.
>
>    Many research studies have proven that active learning as a
>    strategy has promoted achievement levels and some others say
>    that content mastery is possible through active learning
>    strategies. However, some students as well as teachers find it
>    difficult to adapt to the new learning technique.
>
> There's a lot in it and, when you look into it, you can see why Darren
> just doesn't get it. He's never progressed beyond the concrete stage
> in his learning. And it shows.
>
>> is gained through doing. You can relay your experience to someone
>> less experienced and they can certainly learn from it, but that's
>> transferring knowledge but the experience itself is not transferred.
>>
>> It's like taking a roller coaster and then describing every detail of
>> the ride to someone who hasn't been on it. Sure, they might get a
>> fair idea of what to expect and when but the experience itself has
>> not been transferred to that person.
>
> Again, not about transferring *experience* to another person, instead
> transferring the "experience", along with the skills and knowledge
> gained from it, into a new problem. IOW, you're not going in cold -
> you been there, done that. The apprentice level system is based on
> that sort of *experience building*. Level 1 is all about terminology,
> layouts, etc - basic stuff. Level 2 is where the students get their
> hands dirty with *operation*. They strip down assemblies and
> sub-assemblies, identify components (that they handle) and study the
> system operation, measure up and compare against specs, reassemble and
> test. In level 3 they get to diagnose faults, then verify, through
> disassembly or testing, the validity of their diagnosis. What the
> apprentice does is transfer the previous experience, and whatever
> skills and knowledge they gleaned from it, across to a similar task or
> to progressively more complex tasks. The *hands on experience* is key
> to the knowledge and skills building processes.
>
> A sub-point is this;
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experiential_learning
>
>    The general concept of learning through experience is ancient.
>    Around 350 BC, Aristotle wrote in the Nicomachean Ethics "for
>    the things we have to learn before we can do them, we learn by
>    doing them".
>>
>> I mean we see it all the time in here. NoddyLiar gets educated and
>> none of it gets transferred into his experience. He just keeps on
>> keeping on in ignorance and in fact he fights it. None of it gets
>> through his thick skull which is why he's the worst kind of person to
>> take your car to.
>
> Well, Darren has issues. For one, he is stuck in the *concrete*
> learning stage. Most people progress from there into the abstract
> stage by age 12 or thereabouts and is the reason secondary school
> teaching (& learning) is totally different from primary school
> teaching (& learning). Explains also why Darren couldn't cope with
> secondary school, even a secondary tech, and dropped out before
> completion. I'm also betting he copped a lot of bullying which
> explains his attitude and behaviour here.
>>
>> As an obvious recent example he can't pinpoint a misfire on a Holden
>> V8 without swapping parts and sending people on their way in hope
>> when anyone qualified and competent would have pinpointed the problem
>> in seconds using a scan tool by analysing the long term fuel trim
>> data for each cylinder. This is probably one of the most basic
>> diagnostics one could do and he doesn't have a clue.
>>
>> Yet people here believe the incompetent twat is a qualified mechanic
>> that built race engines. Well Les found out the hard way that he's
>> all BULLSHIT.
>>
> I fixed your error. You're welcome!   ;-)
>

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

Q:When is noddy not lying?
A:Anytime his lips aren't moving!

FUCK PUTIN!!

Re: aerial

<jeef25Fnub5U1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=14621&group=aus.cars#14621

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: aerial
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 18:07:30 +1000
Lines: 166
Message-ID: <jeef25Fnub5U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <t5c80k$16kh$1@gioia.aioe.org> <jdtrfjFio91U1@mid.individual.net>
<bd55692d-bd75-406c-924d-52ba689f99a0n@googlegroups.com>
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In-Reply-To: <jeedi0Fnl42U1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Xeno - Mon, 16 May 2022 08:07 UTC

On 16/5/2022 5:42 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 13/05/2022 12:56 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 13/5/2022 9:16 am, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 12/05/2022 7:58 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>> On 12/05/2022 8:16 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>>> On 12/5/2022 8:10 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> As Felix once commented in response to his ridiculous claim, "you
>>>>>> can relate an experience, but you cannot transfer an experience" :)
>>>>>>
>>>>> OMFG, you are incredibly obtuse. The concept is way beyond your
>>>>> ken. Easy to see you never ever set foot into an apprentice class
>>>>> ever.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> so what is the exact definition/concept of "transferred experience"?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> To be fair the idea of transferring experience does seem odd. Experience
>>
>> It's not at all odd if you think about it. For a start, I am not
>> talking about transferring experience to another person. What I am on
>> about is you gaining experience with some task, some problem, then
>> using that experience, along with any skills and knowledge gained, in
>> a different but similar scenario.
>
>
> yep. makes perfect sense. noddyliar is spinning and lying as per usual.
>
Yeah, sorry I didn't answer your post direct. The response I wrote to
*your* post is *still* sitting in my drafts folder. May as well delete
it now since my reply to Clocky on the same topic covered it better. Had
more time to cogitate on it. Every time I take my skills and experience
to a different vehicle, one I have never been specifically trained on, I
am *proving* the concept.
What Darren doesn't realise, and it is entirely unsurprising, is that
apprentice training in automotive isn't at all like his training at
Richmond Tech School. All he has shown is that he was never an
apprentice in his life.

>
>> The Victorian TAFE automotive apprentice training system has been
>> built on that concept since 1978. As I have stated previously, all
>> apprentice classes in automotive in Victoria were self paced
>> competency based from the 80s, motor mechanics being the pilot program
>> from 1978. To that end, all classes revolved around students
>> completing practical tasks and picking up the relevant underpinning
>> theory as they progressed and became *competent*.
>> FWIW, experience is an intangible but, as you are aware, it makes the
>> tasks *real*. It is encapsulated in this adage; I hear and I forget. I
>> see and I remember. I do and I understand - misattributed to Confucius
>> It relates to the three learning domains commonly referred to as
>> knowledge, skills and attitudes (KSA). this taxonomy of learning
>> behaviours can be thought of as "the goals of the learning process"
>> (Bloom, 1956)"
>> What we did in TAFE is best described in this Wikipedia article;
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_learning
>>
>> Some relevant excerpts;
>>
>>    students must do more than just listen in order to learn.
>>    They must read, write, discuss, and be engaged in solving
>>    problems. This process relates to the three learning domains
>>    referred to as knowledge, skills and attitudes (KSA). This
>>    taxonomy of learning behaviors can be thought of as "the
>>    goals of the learning process." In particular, students
>>    must engage in such higher-order thinking tasks as analysis,
>>    synthesis, and evaluation.
>>
>> and
>>
>>    There are a wide range of alternatives for the term active
>>    learning, such as: learning through play, technology-based
>>    learning, activity-based learning, group work, project
>>    method, etc. The common factors in these are some significant
>>    qualities and characteristics of active learning. Active
>>    learning is the opposite of passive learning; it is
>>    learner-centered, not teacher-centered, and requires more than
>>    just listening; the active participation of each and every
>>    student is a necessary aspect in active learning. Students
>>    must be doing things and simultaneously think about the work
>>    done and the purpose behind it so that they can enhance their
>>    higher order thinking capabilities.
>>
>>    Many research studies have proven that active learning as a
>>    strategy has promoted achievement levels and some others say
>>    that content mastery is possible through active learning
>>    strategies. However, some students as well as teachers find it
>>    difficult to adapt to the new learning technique.
>>
>> There's a lot in it and, when you look into it, you can see why Darren
>> just doesn't get it. He's never progressed beyond the concrete stage
>> in his learning. And it shows.
>>
>>> is gained through doing. You can relay your experience to someone
>>> less experienced and they can certainly learn from it, but that's
>>> transferring knowledge but the experience itself is not transferred.
>>>
>>> It's like taking a roller coaster and then describing every detail of
>>> the ride to someone who hasn't been on it. Sure, they might get a
>>> fair idea of what to expect and when but the experience itself has
>>> not been transferred to that person.
>>
>> Again, not about transferring *experience* to another person, instead
>> transferring the "experience", along with the skills and knowledge
>> gained from it, into a new problem. IOW, you're not going in cold -
>> you been there, done that. The apprentice level system is based on
>> that sort of *experience building*. Level 1 is all about terminology,
>> layouts, etc - basic stuff. Level 2 is where the students get their
>> hands dirty with *operation*. They strip down assemblies and
>> sub-assemblies, identify components (that they handle) and study the
>> system operation, measure up and compare against specs, reassemble and
>> test. In level 3 they get to diagnose faults, then verify, through
>> disassembly or testing, the validity of their diagnosis. What the
>> apprentice does is transfer the previous experience, and whatever
>> skills and knowledge they gleaned from it, across to a similar task or
>> to progressively more complex tasks. The *hands on experience* is key
>> to the knowledge and skills building processes.
>>
>> A sub-point is this;
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experiential_learning
>>
>>    The general concept of learning through experience is ancient.
>>    Around 350 BC, Aristotle wrote in the Nicomachean Ethics "for
>>    the things we have to learn before we can do them, we learn by
>>    doing them".
>>>
>>> I mean we see it all the time in here. NoddyLiar gets educated and
>>> none of it gets transferred into his experience. He just keeps on
>>> keeping on in ignorance and in fact he fights it. None of it gets
>>> through his thick skull which is why he's the worst kind of person to
>>> take your car to.
>>
>> Well, Darren has issues. For one, he is stuck in the *concrete*
>> learning stage. Most people progress from there into the abstract
>> stage by age 12 or thereabouts and is the reason secondary school
>> teaching (& learning) is totally different from primary school
>> teaching (& learning). Explains also why Darren couldn't cope with
>> secondary school, even a secondary tech, and dropped out before
>> completion. I'm also betting he copped a lot of bullying which
>> explains his attitude and behaviour here.
>>>
>>> As an obvious recent example he can't pinpoint a misfire on a Holden
>>> V8 without swapping parts and sending people on their way in hope
>>> when anyone qualified and competent would have pinpointed the problem
>>> in seconds using a scan tool by analysing the long term fuel trim
>>> data for each cylinder. This is probably one of the most basic
>>> diagnostics one could do and he doesn't have a clue.
>>>
>>> Yet people here believe the incompetent twat is a qualified mechanic
>>> that built race engines. Well Les found out the hard way that he's
>>> all BULLSHIT.
>>>
>> I fixed your error. You're welcome!   ;-)
>>
>


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