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aus+uk / aus.cars / Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

SubjectAuthor
* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
+* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysalvey
|`- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysGrumpy Tech
 +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 |+- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 |+* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysDaryl
 ||`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 || `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysDaryl
 ||  `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||   +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||   `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 ||    +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||    `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 ||     |+* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     ||+- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 ||     || +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     || `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     ||  +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||  |`- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysClocky
 ||     ||  +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysalvey
 ||     ||  `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 ||     ||   `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     ||    +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysDaryl
 ||     ||    |+- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||    |`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     ||    | +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||    | `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysDaryl
 ||     ||    |  `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     ||    |   `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||    |    `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysYosemite Sam
 ||     ||    |     `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||    |      `- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysjonz@ nothere.com
 ||     ||    `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||     `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 ||     ||      +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     ||      |+* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysYosemite Sam
 ||     ||      ||`- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      |+- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysalvey
 ||     ||      |+* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysalvey
 ||     ||      ||`- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      |`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 ||     ||      | +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      | +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysalvey
 ||     ||      | |`- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      | `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     ||      |  +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      |  |`- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysalvey
 ||     ||      |  +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      |  +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysalvey
 ||     ||      |  `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 ||     ||      |   +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysalvey
 ||     ||      |   +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysDaryl
 ||     ||      |   |`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysalvey
 ||     ||      |   | `- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      |   +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     ||      |   |+- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      |   |`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 ||     ||      |   | +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysjonz@ nothere.com
 ||     ||      |   | +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     ||      |   | |+- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      |   | |`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 ||     ||      |   | | +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      |   | | `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     ||      |   | |  `- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysClocky
 ||     ||      |   | `- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysClocky
 ||     ||      |   `- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysYosemite Sam
 ||     ||      |`- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||       `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysYosemite Sam
 ||     ||        `- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysClocky
 ||     |`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysDaryl
 ||     | +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysDaryl
 ||     | +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     | `- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 ||     `* Had an interesting visitor the past few dayskeithr0
 ||      `- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 |+* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysClocky
 ||+* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 |||`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysjonz@ nothere.com
 ||| `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 |||  +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 |||  |`- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysClocky
 |||  +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysjonz@ nothere.com
 |||  |`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 |||  | +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 |||  | +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysClocky
 |||  | `- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 |||  `- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysalvey
 ||`- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 |+- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysalvey
 |`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 | +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 | +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysDaryl
 | |+* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 | ||`- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 | |+- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 | |`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 | `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno

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Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<t5kfqc$dl2$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=14478&group=aus.cars#14478

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From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 12:29:29 +1000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Noddy - Fri, 13 May 2022 02:29 UTC

On 13/05/2022 11:48 am, John_H wrote:
> Daryl wrote:

>> Not saying you are wrong but why would it need higher octane fuel just
>> because it was fuel injected?
>
> Nope, mainly because of its high VE (volumetric efficiency) resulting
> in a much higher than typical bmep. It was largely achieved by using
> individual throttle bodies for each cylinder which fed air directly
> into the inlet ports instead of via an inlet manifold.

Yeah, I'm still not seeing how that could make it not run properly on
lesser grade fuels. The fuel system may have been "advanced" compared to
a carburetor, but the engine itself was *very* low tech. VE is certainly
a critical factor when it comes to output, but compression ratio
determines what fuel you need to use.

>> Was it a very high compression engine?
>
> 9.5:1 static IIRC. The Escort Mk1 twin cam, which was a very
> successful rally car of the same era ran around the same CR and I'd
> also doubt if it would be able to handle 98RON bowser fuel for the
> same reason whereas relatively crude American V8's ran 12:1 or more
> but had much lower VE..

There were *very* few, factory V8 American engines that ran 12:1 or more
off the showroom floor, and I don't know a single one of them that would
happily run on lower spec fuels. On the other hand, if I had a twin cam
Escort with a sub 10:1 compression ratio I'd happy bet the farm on the
fact that it would run on lower spec fuel just fine with nothing more
than the occasional ping if you were too lazy to use the right gear.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<je6065F4utlU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 13:04:33 +1000
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In-Reply-To: <mear7h1udigl0hrbtr03f8afc1ahojcv63@4ax.com>
 by: Xeno - Fri, 13 May 2022 03:04 UTC

On 13/5/2022 11:48 am, John_H wrote:
> Daryl wrote:
>> On 12/5/2022 7:06 pm, John_H wrote:
>>> Daryl wrote:
>>>> On 12/5/2022 4:08 pm, John_H wrote:
>>>>> Noddy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Thirdly, and probably most comical of the lot, would be who the *fuck*
>>>>>> "rallies" a Triumph 2500? The fucking safety car would be quicker :)
>>>>>
>>>>> It's actually a 2.5 PI Mk2, which was a very quick car in it's day,
>>>>> (the black panel behind the rear quarter window is the clue).
>>>>>
>>>>> The Mk1 version placed 2nd and 4th in the 1970 World Cup Rally....
>>>>> https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/15639-daily-mirror-london-mexico-world-cup-rally-1970/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Except that that was more than 50yrs ago.
>>>> The one Xeno is talking about might be competitive if it just competed
>>>> with cars of similar vintage and the rules were such that all the cars
>>>> had to remain true to day they were made.
>>>
>>> Hence "HERITAGE MOTORSPORT" on the front guard.
>>>
>>>> Its also one of the few cars that went from petrol injection back to
>>>> carbies due to the very poor reliability of the Lucas PI.
>>>
>>> Rubbish. The same system (Lucas MkII) was used in the Repco 5000 and
>>> was certainly reliable. The system was dropped for road cars because
>>> it couldn't meet emission standards post 1973.
>>
>> From what I read on Google the problem wasn't the injection system but
>> the fuel pumps and vapor lock?
>
> Like at lot of Brit and Euro stuff of that era the Mk1 PI, in
> particular, wasn't designed for Australian conditions and needed a few
> relatively simple mods to get around the vaporisation problem. If the
> vaporisation persisted it would also destroy the pump which relied on
> fuel for its lubrication. I've also seen a number of modifications
> that were badly thought out and simply didn't work.
>
>> Very likely the Repco engine didn't use a Triumph fuel pump.
>
> The main problem was the plumbing and not the pump and even if it ran
> on a mechanical pump I don't how they could've started it as the
> system needed around 100psi for the metering and injection to operate.
> Nor would a mechanical pump overcome any vaporisation problem if the
> plumbing wasn't up to the job.
>
>> Odd that a carbie engine could meet emissions but a PI engine couldn't
>> when its usually the other way around?
>
> The Lucas system was completely performance orientated, and also
> vastly simpler than any EFI arrangement manufactured at the time or
> since. IIRC the only EFI system available in 1970 was what Bosch
> called ECGI that was still very much in its infancy and certainly no
> match for the Lucas MkII performance wise.
>
>> Was it UK emission standards, didn't think we had any emission rules
>> till ADR27a in Oct 1976?
>
> Possibly UK or Euro. The last TR6 was sold here in 1974 and was
> drastically detuned, presumably as a last ditch effort to meet
> emission requirements. Those I know who bought them were bitterly
> disappointed with their performance. It was also around the time the
> British car industry was rationalised and a number of makes (including
> Triumph) were brought together under the British Leyland umbrella and
> most of which (including Triumph) turned to shit. The TR6, which had
> been a brilliant car in its day, was replaced by a total disaster
> called the TR7. Only thing worse to own might've been the equally
> infamous Jensen Healey.
>
>>>> AFAIK the problem was mostly due to a dodgy fuel pump although that
>>>> should be easy to fix with a modern fuel pump and pressure regulator.
>>>
>>> Complete rubbish. Being the first performance fuel injection system
>>> to go into production the main problem was a lack of mechanics who
>>> knew how the system worked, and hence without the slighest clue how to
>>> tune or maintain it.
>>>
>>> FWIW I ran a 2.5 PI for years and eventually parked it up when the
>>> octane rating of super petrol became too low for it. I was doing a
>>> lot of long distance travelling at the time and suitable fuel simply
>>> wasn't available at the bowser. From memory it needed something over
>>> 100RON which super was before the lead content was reduced around the
>>> early to mid 1980's (my car was a '69 model).
>>
>> Not saying you are wrong but why would it need higher octane fuel just
>> because it was fuel injected?
>
> Nope, mainly because of its high VE (volumetric efficiency) resulting
> in a much higher than typical bmep. It was largely achieved by using
> individual throttle bodies for each cylinder which fed air directly

A much more unrestricted air flow since no carb venturi were required.

> into the inlet ports instead of via an inlet manifold.

Don't bother trying to explain how a high VE can raise the *effective
compression ratio, for sure Darren won't get it and I'm not so sure
Daryl will either. Darren poo poohed the *concept* of effective
compression ratio. The people who use the term, those in aviation and
drag racing, understand the concept so it's strange since Darren claims
*experience* in both those fields.
>
>> Was it a very high compression engine?
>
> 9.5:1 static IIRC. The Escort Mk1 twin cam, which was a very
> successful rally car of the same era ran around the same CR and I'd
> also doubt if it would be able to handle 98RON bowser fuel for the
> same reason whereas relatively crude American V8's ran 12:1 or more
> but had much lower VE..
>
>>
>> I only ever worked on a twin carb version but the PI did have a very bad
>> rep for reliability which could be as you say due to the lack of
>> knowledge of the system.
>
> Apart from its external appearance thehe 2500TC was a vastly different
> car and mainly suffered from a poorer build quality after British
> Leyland took over Triumph. Earlier models had a different parent
> company and were assembled by AMI Nevertheless the PIs did need
> frequent maintenance relative to carburetted cars to keep them running
> properly but for all the miles I did in mine reliability was never a
> major issue. In fact it was more reliable than the SV Dunnydore I
> eventually bought as a replacement which struggled to get me home on a
> couple of occasions and needed parts far more often..
>

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<je60ejF50flU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 13:09:05 +1000
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In-Reply-To: <mear7h1udigl0hrbtr03f8afc1ahojcv63@4ax.com>
 by: Daryl - Fri, 13 May 2022 03:09 UTC

On 13/5/2022 11:48 am, John_H wrote:
> Daryl wrote:
>> On 12/5/2022 7:06 pm, John_H wrote:
>>> Daryl wrote:
>>>> On 12/5/2022 4:08 pm, John_H wrote:
>>>>> Noddy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Thirdly, and probably most comical of the lot, would be who the *fuck*
>>>>>> "rallies" a Triumph 2500? The fucking safety car would be quicker :)
>>>>>
>>>>> It's actually a 2.5 PI Mk2, which was a very quick car in it's day,
>>>>> (the black panel behind the rear quarter window is the clue).
>>>>>
>>>>> The Mk1 version placed 2nd and 4th in the 1970 World Cup Rally....
>>>>> https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/15639-daily-mirror-london-mexico-world-cup-rally-1970/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Except that that was more than 50yrs ago.
>>>> The one Xeno is talking about might be competitive if it just competed
>>>> with cars of similar vintage and the rules were such that all the cars
>>>> had to remain true to day they were made.
>>>
>>> Hence "HERITAGE MOTORSPORT" on the front guard.
>>>
>>>> Its also one of the few cars that went from petrol injection back to
>>>> carbies due to the very poor reliability of the Lucas PI.
>>>
>>> Rubbish. The same system (Lucas MkII) was used in the Repco 5000 and
>>> was certainly reliable. The system was dropped for road cars because
>>> it couldn't meet emission standards post 1973.
>>
>> From what I read on Google the problem wasn't the injection system but
>> the fuel pumps and vapor lock?
>
> Like at lot of Brit and Euro stuff of that era the Mk1 PI, in
> particular, wasn't designed for Australian conditions and needed a few
> relatively simple mods to get around the vaporisation problem. If the
> vaporisation persisted it would also destroy the pump which relied on
> fuel for its lubrication. I've also seen a number of modifications
> that were badly thought out and simply didn't work.
>
>> Very likely the Repco engine didn't use a Triumph fuel pump.
>
> The main problem was the plumbing and not the pump and even if it ran
> on a mechanical pump I don't how they could've started it as the
> system needed around 100psi for the metering and injection to operate.
> Nor would a mechanical pump overcome any vaporisation problem if the
> plumbing wasn't up to the job.
>
>> Odd that a carbie engine could meet emissions but a PI engine couldn't
>> when its usually the other way around?
>
> The Lucas system was completely performance orientated, and also
> vastly simpler than any EFI arrangement manufactured at the time or
> since. IIRC the only EFI system available in 1970 was what Bosch
> called ECGI that was still very much in its infancy and certainly no
> match for the Lucas MkII performance wise.
>
>> Was it UK emission standards, didn't think we had any emission rules
>> till ADR27a in Oct 1976?
>
> Possibly UK or Euro. The last TR6 was sold here in 1974 and was
> drastically detuned, presumably as a last ditch effort to meet
> emission requirements. Those I know who bought them were bitterly
> disappointed with their performance. It was also around the time the
> British car industry was rationalised and a number of makes (including
> Triumph) were brought together under the British Leyland umbrella and
> most of which (including Triumph) turned to shit. The TR6, which had
> been a brilliant car in its day, was replaced by a total disaster
> called the TR7. Only thing worse to own might've been the equally
> infamous Jensen Healey.
>
>>>> AFAIK the problem was mostly due to a dodgy fuel pump although that
>>>> should be easy to fix with a modern fuel pump and pressure regulator.
>>>
>>> Complete rubbish. Being the first performance fuel injection system
>>> to go into production the main problem was a lack of mechanics who
>>> knew how the system worked, and hence without the slighest clue how to
>>> tune or maintain it.
>>>
>>> FWIW I ran a 2.5 PI for years and eventually parked it up when the
>>> octane rating of super petrol became too low for it. I was doing a
>>> lot of long distance travelling at the time and suitable fuel simply
>>> wasn't available at the bowser. From memory it needed something over
>>> 100RON which super was before the lead content was reduced around the
>>> early to mid 1980's (my car was a '69 model).
>>
>> Not saying you are wrong but why would it need higher octane fuel just
>> because it was fuel injected?
>
> Nope, mainly because of its high VE (volumetric efficiency) resulting
> in a much higher than typical bmep. It was largely achieved by using
> individual throttle bodies for each cylinder which fed air directly
> into the inlet ports instead of via an inlet manifold.
>
>> Was it a very high compression engine?
>
> 9.5:1 static IIRC. The Escort Mk1 twin cam, which was a very
> successful rally car of the same era ran around the same CR and I'd
> also doubt if it would be able to handle 98RON bowser fuel for the
> same reason whereas relatively crude American V8's ran 12:1 or more
> but had much lower VE..

I wonder how they would run on E85 which seems to be the go for modern
high compression race engines.
Mates Birkin Lotus 7 replica race car has 14.2:1 comp and has no problem
with pinging.
>
>>
>> I only ever worked on a twin carb version but the PI did have a very bad
>> rep for reliability which could be as you say due to the lack of
>> knowledge of the system.
>
> Apart from its external appearance thehe 2500TC was a vastly different
> car and mainly suffered from a poorer build quality after British
> Leyland took over Triumph. Earlier models had a different parent
> company and were assembled by AMI Nevertheless the PIs did need
> frequent maintenance relative to carburetted cars to keep them running
> properly but for all the miles I did in mine reliability was never a
> major issue. In fact it was more reliable than the SV Dunnydore I
> eventually bought as a replacement which struggled to get me home on a
> couple of occasions and needed parts far more often..
>
Best part of 40yrs since I worked on or drove one so my memory is a bit
vague but I do remember thinking at the time that it was a nice car to
drive, just lacked a bit of performance.
I think it was an auto trans if there was such a thing?

--
Daryl

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<je6140F54u3U1@mid.individual.net>

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Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
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 by: Xeno - Fri, 13 May 2022 03:20 UTC

On 13/5/2022 11:48 am, John_H wrote:
> Daryl wrote:
>> On 12/5/2022 8:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 12/05/2022 7:06 pm, John_H wrote:
>>>> Daryl wrote:
>>
>>>> Toby Ponsenby, who used to post here, had a Mk2 PI and swore by it
>>>> whereas those who never had a clue usually swore at 'em.  :)
>>>
>>> They didn't gain a reputation of unreliability for nothing. Maybe you
>>> got lucky.
>>
>> Or maybe he studied how they worked and meticulously maintained it using
>> the correct fuel?
>
> Nup, I simply kept it well away from the dickheads who didn't
> understand how it worked. They did require relatively frequent
> maintenance but it was pretty straightforward for those who were
> familiar with the make. Toby used to refer to a Triumph specialist in
> Brissy, whose name I've long forgotten.
>
>> Apart from those that worked on diesels very few mechanics back in the
>> 70's would have even seen an engine with fuel injection, I was the other
>> way around, plenty of diesel injection experience but bugger all petrol
>> experience.
>
> The worst thing that could possibly happen to a Triumph PI was have it
> fall into the hands of a diesel mechanic which many unfortunately did.
> The fuel systems are entirely different in their operation,

They were also different from the Bosch CIS PI systems, like the
K-Jetronic, as well. Also mechanical but *continuous* rather than pulsed.

> particularly the injection sequence. Diesels inject at the end of
> compression stroke whereas petrol engines (including the modern ones)
> inject at the beginning of the induction stroke. The diesel

Yes, the PI was a homogenous charge engine and the bulk of the fuel
mixing, and evaporation was done in the manifold. Injection timing was
in no way critical in those. In a lot of port injection engines, the
injection occurred twice in the 720 degree 4 stroke cycle

> "specialists" would invariably set the injector timing 360° out of

Yeah, 360 out of phase would be a bit much. That's why a lot of the bank
firing injector systems would fire the injectors *twice* per cycle or
once every 360 degrees.

> phase, which meant the engine would still run, albeit badly,
> resulting in their looking elsewhere for whatever they perceived to be
> the problem and compounding their stuff up in the process.
>
>> I remember being told about the same system on a TR6, don't know if its
>> true but the rumor was that if you forgot to turn off the ign key or
>> didn't start the engine straight away after turning the key the engine
>> would flood?
>
> Definitely not true, since there was absolutely no way fuel could get
> to the injectors when the engine wasn't turning over.
>
Yep, if memory serves, no engine vacuum, no fuel flow.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

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Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 13:47:00 +1000
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 by: Xeno - Fri, 13 May 2022 03:47 UTC

On 13/5/2022 12:16 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 13/05/2022 11:26 am, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 17:23:48 UTC+10, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> Probably because the cylinder head people were a bit too tight on the
>>> clearances, but you'd need to take that up with them as I never did the
>>> head. However what is *abundantly* clear is if the engine was assembled
>>> had a piston to valve clearance issue it would never have survived the
>>> first dyno session, and anyone who had a modicum of experience with
>>> engines would be well aware of that.
>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>   Yes!.
>
> It's absolutely ridiculous actually. The more he tries to invent
> ridiculous theories to push the blame onto me, the more completely
> ignorant and clueless he makes *himself* look at a result.
>
> The engine in question was a Toyota 4AGE 20 valve, which used inlet
> valves with a stem diameter of just under 5mm (4.98mm to be exact). They

Stem diameter is irrelevant in this context Darren. Those engines are
not known for dropping valve heads for no reason.

> are *remarkably* fine, and you can just about bend the valves with your
> fingers. Anyone with anything remotely like relevant experience would

Absolute rubbish Darren.

> know that *any* piston to valve contact would bend such a valve
> immediately, and such a bent valve would cause an *instant* loss of
> compression and result in a dead cylinder.

Well, no, that doesn't work quite like that. If the valve is given just
a minor tap, and that's all it would take, to bend the valve head just a
couple of thou askew, the leakage won't result in a total loss of
compression, you will still have a WOT hot burn, the valve wont seat
100% for cooling purposes, the valve head will *overheat* in seconds,
the tapered section of the stem (the hot bit) will turn to plasticine,
the valve head will drop off - and that's all she wrote. And that is
exactly what happened. You can piss and moan all you like Darren but
every detail in the scenario fits like a glove. Know nothing nuff nuffs
like you always blame *faulty bits* because you don't know enough about
how it all works.
>
> Had that scenario ever existed in the real world, it would have
> presented itself on the very first dyno session with the engine being
> obviously down on power due to the compression loss, but that never

Dyno max RPM is limited by dyno load Darren, mentioned that already.

> happened. In fact after both dyno sessions and a full track day the
> engine's performance was reported as "excellent" and there was no hint
> of a problem.
>
> Because there *wasn't* one.

Until that final run down conrod straight where the RPMs exceeded the
loaded RPM limit - downhill runs enable that Darren.
>
> What there was was this utterly nonsensical attempt by Clasener to blame
> me for something that he has absolutely no understanding of due to his

You were the person working on the engine, the buck stops with you.

> own pig ignorance. As has been mentioned before and as he *continually*
> chooses to ignore, piston to valve clearances *were* checked and such

So you say but Daryl said he tried but couldn't work out how to do it.
That statement he made screws you.

> checking is a process of every build I do. They were within spec and
> he's been told this a number of times. He's also been shown photos of
> the remains of the plasticine on the pistons used to do the checking,

Dummied up after the event most likely. Or you screwed up the
measurements or made insufficient allowance.

> and the photo of the valve that was snapped half way up it's stem which
> is something that would *never* occur on an inlet valve that had
> insufficient piston to valve clearance.

Uh, yes it would. That's the hottest part of the valve Darren. And the
part most likely to turn to plasticene through excessive heating.
>
> He's been told *all* of this. He's been told that the engine did two
> dyno sessions to bed it in and tune for peak horsepower and it presented
> no problems. He's been told that the car was run for a full day at

Peak horsepower it attained whilst the engine is *under load* Darren.
The load restricts the RPM. High RPM is where you get valve overshoot.
Downhill runs are where the engine free revs beyond the normal RPM limits.

> Winton where it was tuned and set up in preparation for it's trip to

Winton is *flat* Darren. No downhill runs like conrod straight at Winton.

> Bathurst where it *also* ran flawlessly and presented no problems, and
> finally he's been told that at Bathurst it made sorting and qualifying
> laps before finally suffering a valve failure going through the Chase on
> Conrod straight on it's 7th lap of a race.

Pushed that little bit harder than earlier. Easily explained Darren.
>
> He's been told *all* of that, which would tell *anyone* with half a
> ounce of experience or even the most *basic* understanding of engine
> operation that piston to valve clearance was *not* the cause of it's
> failure yet he chooses to ignore *all* of that fact which has been
> supported by Daryl in favour of his own utterly ridiculous and

Supported by Daryl? Daryl couldn't even work out how to do the piston to
valve clearance - by *his own admission*.

> completely fanciful theory that it the engine failed due to a lack of
> piston to valve clearance which was my fault for not checking it.

Nothing fanciful about it Darren, and it isn't a theory. It follows a
logical process and given all the info at hand, makes a whole lot more
sense than a *faulty valve*. Calling it a faulty valve Darren, is not
*solving the problem* and is *guaranteeing* a recurrence - and that's bad.
>
> A theory that makes sense to *no one* but him and his Lieutenant Junior

Look, I understand how the *process* would make no sense to you! You're
still at the concrete stage of learning. Try grasping a few abstract
concepts, you might do better in life.

> Jerky, and one that serves no purpose *other* than to show the
> incredible level of cluelessness they possess, and how that in itself
> shows that the idea that trade licensing ensures a higher standard of
> tradespeople is a complete fairytale :)

In NSW and WA, it keeps *shonks* like you out of the trade - and that
can't be a bad thing.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<je62tkF5eaaU1@mid.individual.net>

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Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 13:51:13 +1000
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 by: Xeno - Fri, 13 May 2022 03:51 UTC

On 13/5/2022 12:29 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 13/05/2022 11:48 am, John_H wrote:
>> Daryl wrote:
>
>>> Not saying you are wrong but why would it need higher octane fuel just
>>> because it was fuel injected?
>>
>> Nope, mainly because of its high VE (volumetric efficiency) resulting
>> in a much higher than typical bmep.  It was largely achieved by using
>> individual throttle bodies for each cylinder which fed air directly
>> into the inlet ports instead of via an inlet manifold.
>
> Yeah, I'm still not seeing how that could make it not run properly on
> lesser grade fuels. The fuel system may have been "advanced" compared to

Well, I called it and here it is folks - Darren the concrete thinker.

> a carburetor, but the engine itself was *very* low tech. VE is certainly
> a critical factor when it comes to output, but compression ratio
> determines what fuel you need to use.

Static Compression Ratio is a start point. In a running engine, static
compression ratio is way less relevant and you need to look at abstract
concepts like *effective compression ratio* - but that's way beyond your
ken.
>
>>> Was it a very high compression engine?
>>
>> 9.5:1 static IIRC.  The Escort Mk1 twin cam, which was a very
>> successful rally car of the same era ran around the same CR and I'd
>> also doubt if it would be able to handle 98RON bowser fuel for the
>> same reason whereas relatively crude American V8's ran 12:1 or more
>> but had much lower VE..
>
> There were *very* few, factory V8 American engines that ran 12:1 or more
> off the showroom floor, and I don't know a single one of them that would
> happily run on lower spec fuels. On the other hand, if I had a twin cam
> Escort with a sub 10:1 compression ratio I'd happy bet the farm on the
> fact that it would run on lower spec fuel just fine with nothing more
> than the occasional ping if you were too lazy to use the right gear.
>
Face it Darren, abstract concepts flummox you!

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

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From: notgo...@happen.com (Clocky)
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Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 14:38:21 +0800
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 by: Clocky - Fri, 13 May 2022 06:38 UTC

On 13/05/2022 10:16 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 13/05/2022 11:26 am, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 17:23:48 UTC+10, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> Probably because the cylinder head people were a bit too tight on the
>>> clearances, but you'd need to take that up with them as I never did the
>>> head. However what is *abundantly* clear is if the engine was assembled
>>> had a piston to valve clearance issue it would never have survived the
>>> first dyno session, and anyone who had a modicum of experience with
>>> engines would be well aware of that.
>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>   Yes!.
>
> It's absolutely ridiculous actually.

That you as somebody who can't even correctly identify blower
components, insisted his own fucking Jeep was "All imperial" and is
incapable of the most basic of diagnostics could build a race worthy
engine... yes that is ridiculous and the proof is in the detonation of
the engine :-)

You fucked up and the engine blew up as a result and that's all there is
to it.

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<je6s0dFa0nqU1@mid.individual.net>

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 by: Xeno - Fri, 13 May 2022 10:59 UTC

On 13/5/2022 12:16 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 13/05/2022 11:26 am, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 17:23:48 UTC+10, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> Probably because the cylinder head people were a bit too tight on the
>>> clearances, but you'd need to take that up with them as I never did the
>>> head. However what is *abundantly* clear is if the engine was assembled
>>> had a piston to valve clearance issue it would never have survived the
>>> first dyno session, and anyone who had a modicum of experience with
>>> engines would be well aware of that.
>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>   Yes!.
>
> It's absolutely ridiculous actually. The more he tries to invent
> ridiculous theories to push the blame onto me, the more completely
> ignorant and clueless he makes *himself* look at a result.
>
> The engine in question was a Toyota 4AGE 20 valve, which used inlet
> valves with a stem diameter of just under 5mm (4.98mm to be exact). They
> are *remarkably* fine, and you can just about bend the valves with your
> fingers. Anyone with anything remotely like relevant experience would
> know that *any* piston to valve contact would bend such a valve
> immediately, and such a bent valve would cause an *instant* loss of
> compression and result in a dead cylinder.

The above bullshit requires a little more extrapolation. Firstly, the
4A-GE and 4A-GZE engine were known for their reliability. After all,
they are made by *Toyota*! Even Wikipedia agrees with me.

Due to its durability, performance and relatively low cost,
4A-GE and 4A-GZE engines and their derivatives have been
popular for both professional and amateur racing since their
introduction

Durability, performance and low cost, an unusual combination. Just for
you Darren, *durability* means the engines are reliable and not known to
blow up for no reason.

Now here's a point to note Darren. The stock 4A-GE20, at least the last
iteration of it (black top), put out 165-167 HP (according to Toyota).
Even if you weren't quite getting there in the real world, you can
achieve impressive numbers with the 20V engines. Oh, BTW, that was with
the *stock* valves and a lightly ported head. You only needed to upgrade
the valves when you go above 190 HP. That, in anybody's language,
Darren, is bloody impressive. Damn good little breathers, those 4A-GE20
engines. Did I mention that you would need to be a serious racer to get
to 190 HP. Just think of the *volumetric efficiency*. It'd be
interesting to see the numbers on that.

Anyway, back to valves. Darren, you say the valve stems are too small
and "and you can just about bend the valves with your fingers". Well,
that's a load of bullshit right there given you can bump the engines up
to 190 HP *before* you need to fit stronger valves. I don't know, it
seems that you, Darren, just pluck this shit out of your arse! It would
be nice if you backed up your *opinions* with *facts*. Facts are like
rocking horse turds in the Gibbens household.

Why do Toyota, and other marques, fit small valves on 16 and 20 valve
engines? They do it because that is their aim, their goal. To look into
this, we need to look at what went before. Take this two valve head, a
Ford 4V head in fact;

https://cougarpartscatalog.mo.cloudinary.net/dc/13665/1502927441_y.jpg

Only two valves, one inlet, one exhaust. They are just about at their
largest practical dimensions and if you look at the *total valve area*
compared to the total cylinder area, it seems there is a lot of waste
space. What that means is that the air flow area is limited by having
just one inlet valve per cylinder and that will *limit* the volumetric
efficiency of the engine.

The three valve engine with a pentroof combustion chamber as used in
Honda and Rover allows for more valve flow area as it has two inlet
valves and one exhaust. Though the overall diameter of the inlet valves
is *smaller* than a single, the basic gain here is that the arrangement
allows a 50% port flow increase because the two valves total a larger
area than one single valve with a better fit within the cylider bore
size limitation. Big gain on VE which leads to a gain in torque and
consequently, a gain in horsepower.
There are other benefits. One benefit is that, by reducing the overall
size of the valves, you have reduced the valve *mass* so that
reciprocating inertia effects are proportionately minimised. So, Darren,
the valves have become *smaller* and that is a definite plus. If the
mass of each individual valve is less, the engine will be able to rev
higher before it encounters valve bounce, float and, critically, overshoot.
Another benefit, one which is less intuitive, is that, with the overall
benefits to the head's breathing ability with 2 inlet valves, it is no
longer necessary to have early inlet valve opening and late exhaust
valve closing, hence a much reduced valve overlap can be utilised which,
in turn, leads to reduced exhaust emissions under idling and light load
conditions and that can only be a good thing.
How about a four valve pentroof head, like the 4A-GE16? Here's the
working side of a 4 valve pentroof head;

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSpVR_UXYm-UQ1gMvbgJPOWzvv-D-rDtdHOTg&usqp=CAU
Two features become evident; there's a lot less dead space in there
*not* occupied by a valve. What's better, that dead space in the middle
of all 4 valves now is occupied by the *spark plug*. The flame initiated
by the spark plug now has the shortest possible distance to go the reach
the cylinder walls. That provides a short flame path with a wide frontal
area so a high but controlled rate of burn can be achieved. That helps
prevent any end gas from pre-igniting or detonating. That, in turns
means that the *effective compression ratio* can be higher - and it will
be because *volumetric efficiency* is further enhanced through the
additional exhaust valve. What's more, with two inlet valves per
cylinder, you can achieve a nice *tumble* air flow - that's good. Even
better, if you control one of the inlet port flows, you can turn that
tumble into a nice useful helical swirl flow. Both these flows lead to
increased turbulence which, in turn, leads to a *faster burn time*. The
4 valve pentroof cylinder head improves the intake and discharge flow
through the cylinder head by something in the order of 50% when compared
to a two valve hemi combustion chamber but a massive 100% when compared
to a two valve bathtub chamber. Where is this an advantage? Well, the
higher overall volumetric efficiency means the usual peak torque
developed at around mid-engine speed can now be maintained throughout
the upper speed range without and marked decline. This is in direct
contrast to the large torque drop off that occurs in that upper speed
range with conventional 2 valve cylinder heads. Just a reminder Darren,
VE leads to torque, HP increases require that torque to be available in
the upper rev range because HP gains require revs. As I stated once
before, there is a bit of a linkage between the two which you don't seem
to understand.
Moving on now to the 5 valve head as used by Yamaha.

https://external-preview.redd.it/L9BrZFiEsYPxslbDgxsJb4odEfdKOXT5vLKSgcRze_s.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=0269c86d52b615b2354f6602a8ea5d7cbc0890bc

This head uses 3 inlet and two exhaust valves in a pentagonal
arrangement and they form a shallow pentroof combustion chamber. The 2
outer inlet valves are inclined at about 18 degrees from the vertical
whilst the central inlet valve is inclined at a smaller 11 degrees. The
2 exhaust valves will be
inclined around 14 degrees. That gives a shallow semi-hemi combustion
chamber, again with a central spark plug. That in turn gives the
shortest flame travel with the widest flame front in all directions. The
near horizontal centre inlet valve head provides an excellent squish
zone which excites the tumble motion of the mixture into a highly
turbulent motion just before the spark plug fires. This causes high
speed propagation of the flame front with the result that a relatively
high compression ratio can be used even with 98 RON fuel. Fast flame
propagation diminishes the risk of detonation. If I recall correctly,
the valve arrangement of the 4A-GE20 was similar to the Yamaha head.
Now, back to inlet flow area, the triple inlet valve arrangement
increases the *effective intake area* by about 15% compared to a 4 valve
head arrangement. A modest gain there. As can be expected with the 5
valve arrangement, the mass of each of the valves is considerably less
compared with a two valve head - yes Darren, you observed that! This
means that *lighter* valve springs can be utilised or *higher* engine
speeds can be had without valve bounce occurring. Choose one, you can't
have both. Bottom line, the intent of the 4A-GE20 engine designer was to
use valves of reduced mass - and that included narrower stems because,
as is patently obvious, the valve head is commensurately smaller as
well. Hey, there's reduced mass there in the head too.


Click here to read the complete article
Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

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From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Fri, 13 May 2022 21:15:37 +1000
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In-Reply-To: <je4efgFqh5kU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Xeno - Fri, 13 May 2022 11:15 UTC

On 12/5/2022 10:56 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 12/5/2022 8:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 12/05/2022 7:06 pm, John_H wrote:
>>> Daryl wrote:
>>
>>> Complete rubbish.  Being the first performance fuel injection system
>>> to go into production the main problem was a lack of mechanics who
>>> knew how the system worked, and hence without the slighest clue how to
>>> tune or maintain it.
>>>
>>> FWIW I ran a 2.5 PI for years and eventually parked it up when the
>>> octane rating of super petrol became too low for it.
>>
>> Thought there must have been some reason why you would defend them :)
>>
>>> I was doing a lot of long distance travelling at the time and
>>> suitable fuel simply
>>> wasn't available at the bowser.  From memory it needed something over
>>> 100RON which super was before the lead content was reduced around the
>>> early to mid 1980's (my car was a '69 model).
>>
>> They were like 9 to 1 compression or so, weren't they? What was the
>> big deal?
>>
>>> Toby Ponsenby, who used to post here, had a Mk2 PI and swore by it
>>> whereas those who never had a clue usually swore at 'em.  :)
>>
>> They didn't gain a reputation of unreliability for nothing. Maybe you
>> got lucky.
>
> Or maybe he studied how they worked and meticulously maintained it using
> the correct fuel?
> Apart from those that worked on diesels very few mechanics back in the
> 70's would have even seen an engine with fuel injection, I was the other
> way around, plenty of diesel injection experience but bugger all petrol
> experience.
> I remember being told about the same system on a TR6, don't know if its
> true but the rumor was that if you forgot to turn off the ign key or
> didn't start the engine straight away after turning the key the engine
> would flood?
>
Sounds a lot like bullshit. They have a diaphragm connected to engine
vacuum to control fuel mixture. If the engine isn't cranking or running,
there should be be no fuel getting through. If there's a fault, or
something has been maladjusted by a nuff nuff, then there is the
possibility of fuel flow when stationary. But definitely it is *not
normal*. The Lucas PI system is one of those systems where, if you know
nothing about how it operates or how to set one up, you need to stay
well away from. They are a relatively simple system but there are
caveats with adjustment.
>
>
> Daryl

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

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From: john4...@hotmail.com (John_H)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 07:26:32 +1000
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 by: John_H - Fri, 13 May 2022 21:26 UTC

Daryl wrote:
>On 13/5/2022 11:48 am, John_H wrote:
>
>> Apart from its external appearance the 2500TC was a vastly different
>> car and mainly suffered from a poorer build quality after British
>> Leyland took over Triumph. Earlier models had a different parent
>> company and were assembled by AMI
>>
>Best part of 40yrs since I worked on or drove one so my memory is a bit
>vague but I do remember thinking at the time that it was a nice car to
>drive, just lacked a bit of performance.
>I think it was an auto trans if there was such a thing?

There was (Borg Warner 35) but they had such a nice gearbox It always
surprised me that anyone able to change gears would want the auto..
Laycock overdrive was also optional.

Compared to something like a 202 Kingswood they weren't a bad
performer either as well as being 30kph faster.

--
John H

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

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From: john4...@hotmail.com (John_H)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 08:28:42 +1000
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 by: John_H - Fri, 13 May 2022 22:28 UTC

Xeno wrote:
>On 12/5/2022 10:56 pm, Daryl wrote:
>
>> I remember being told about the same system on a TR6, don't know if its
>> true but the rumor was that if you forgot to turn off the ign key or
>> didn't start the engine straight away after turning the key the engine
>> would flood?
>>
>Sounds a lot like bullshit. They have a diaphragm connected to engine
>vacuum to control fuel mixture. If the engine isn't cranking or running,
>there should be be no fuel getting through. If there's a fault, or
>something has been maladjusted by a nuff nuff, then there is the
>possibility of fuel flow when stationary. But definitely it is *not
>normal*.

Not even possible. They had an arragement called shuttle metering and
sequential injection was controlled by a distributor. If the
distributor wasn't rotating the shuttle couldn't operate. IOW no fuel
could get past the shuttle.

> The Lucas PI system is one of those systems where, if you know
>nothing about how it operates or how to set one up, you need to stay
>well away from. They are a relatively simple system but there are
>caveats with adjustment.

In fact the metering unit was fully preset and there were no in
service adjustments within the system itself. The shuttle metering
set up is described here.....
http://www.lucasinjection.com/Lucas%20Mk2%20manual%20page%209.htm

Correct operation was entirely dependant on vacuum and the various
factors that affect it. An accurate vacuum gauge was the essential
tool most of those who attempted to stuff around with the system
didn't have. Knowing how to interpret the vacuum readings was the
other essential.

--
John H

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

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From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 09:35:05 +1000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Noddy - Fri, 13 May 2022 23:35 UTC

On 14/05/2022 8:28 am, John_H wrote:
> Xeno wrote:

>
>> The Lucas PI system is one of those systems where, if you know
>> nothing about how it operates or how to set one up, you need to stay
>> well away from. They are a relatively simple system but there are
>> caveats with adjustment.
>
> In fact the metering unit was fully preset and there were no in
> service adjustments within the system itself.

ROTFL :)

Once again Clasener gets his arse handed to him in being shown that
trying to pass Google off as personal experience just ain't gonna fly :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 09:38:00 +1000
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 by: Daryl - Fri, 13 May 2022 23:38 UTC

On 14/5/2022 7:26 am, John_H wrote:
> Daryl wrote:
>> On 13/5/2022 11:48 am, John_H wrote:
>>
>>> Apart from its external appearance the 2500TC was a vastly different
>>> car and mainly suffered from a poorer build quality after British
>>> Leyland took over Triumph. Earlier models had a different parent
>>> company and were assembled by AMI
>>>
>
>> Best part of 40yrs since I worked on or drove one so my memory is a bit
>> vague but I do remember thinking at the time that it was a nice car to
>> drive, just lacked a bit of performance.
>> I think it was an auto trans if there was such a thing?
>
> There was (Borg Warner 35) but they had such a nice gearbox It always
> surprised me that anyone able to change gears would want the auto..
> Laycock overdrive was also optional.
>
> Compared to something like a 202 Kingswood they weren't a bad
> performer either as well as being 30kph faster.
>

IMHO Kingswoods were very ordinary cars and performance wasn't one of
their features:-)
Back in the day my wife's car was a Mk1 Austin 1800, not without its
problems but a much nicer car to drive than any Holden of similar
vintage, I think people liked old Holdens because they were pretty
simple and almost idiot proof which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Only exception was the HK Belmont wagon we owned, must have been made
after everyone at GMH got a big pay rise because it ran and drove very
nicely, it was that good that it lasted a few years after my wife gave
it to her father, previously none of his cars lasted more than 6mths, he
was by far the worst destroyer of cars that I've meet, mostly crashed
them but he also wasn't mechanically sympathetic yet he couldn't break
the HK:-)
He eventually wrote it off.

--
Daryl

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

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From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 10:51:55 +1000
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 by: Xeno - Sat, 14 May 2022 00:51 UTC

On 14/5/2022 9:35 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 14/05/2022 8:28 am, John_H wrote:
>> Xeno wrote:
>
>>
>>> The Lucas PI system is one of those systems where, if you know
>>> nothing about how it operates or how to set one up, you need to stay
>>> well away from. They are a relatively simple system but there are
>>> caveats with adjustment.
>>
>> In fact the metering unit was fully preset and there were no in
>> service adjustments within the system itself.
>
> ROTFL :)
>
> Once again Clasener gets his arse handed to him in being shown that
> trying to pass Google off as personal experience just ain't gonna fly :)
>
>
Ah, Darren, I actually studied that system way back in my apprenticeship
days a very long time ago (yes, I did an apprenticeship, unlike you) but
there was not a single Lucas PI system equipped car in the entire
district so I never actually got to work on one. I'm *sure* I mentioned
that in a past post. The Bosch K-Jetronic (CIS) system, on the other
hand, was common around the district being fitted to a range of Euros.
Those I did get to study and work on through my apprenticeship and later
and even got to study those and later Bosch systems in specialist fuel
injection training post apprenticeship. You, on the other hand, would
never have worked on a Lucas PI system in your life nor, for that
matter, ever had any training in their operation. You're the exact sort
of nuff nuff that stuffs those systems up when you tinker with them
since *Google* is all you have backing you up.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

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From: alv...@is.invalid (alvey)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 11:23:19 +1000
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 by: alvey - Sat, 14 May 2022 01:23 UTC

On Sat, 14 May 2022 09:35:05 +1000, Noddy wrote:

> On 14/05/2022 8:28 am, John_H wrote:
>> Xeno wrote:
>
>>
>>> The Lucas PI system is one of those systems where, if you know
>>> nothing about how it operates or how to set one up, you need to stay
>>> well away from. They are a relatively simple system but there are
>>> caveats with adjustment.
>>
>> In fact the metering unit was fully preset and there were no in
>> service adjustments within the system itself.
>
> ROTFL :)
>
> Once again Clasener gets his arse handed to him in being shown that
> trying to pass Google off as personal experience just ain't gonna fly :)

That's interesting. Not what you're dribbling of course Fraudster, but that
your hero John_H hasn't replied to you even once in this thread. Mmmmmmm.

alvey

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

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From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 11:35:17 +1000
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 by: Noddy - Sat, 14 May 2022 01:35 UTC

On 14/05/2022 9:38 am, Daryl wrote:
> On 14/5/2022 7:26 am, John_H wrote:

>>
>> Compared to something like a 202 Kingswood they weren't a bad
>> performer either as well as being 30kph faster.
>>
>
> IMHO Kingswoods were very ordinary cars and performance wasn't one of
> their features:-)

202 in the Kingswood? no. They were nothing flash. However a 202 in the
LJ Torana was a different story. Combined with a 4 speed they were quite
a fun little car even if they were a bit of a lead tipped arrow.

> Back in the day my wife's car was a Mk1 Austin 1800, not without its
> problems but a much nicer car to drive than any Holden of similar
> vintage, I think people liked old Holdens because they were pretty
> simple and almost idiot proof which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

They were pretty reliable. The humble old Red Motor wasn't without it's
issues on occasion, like piston failures in early 202's for example, but
by and large they were an incredibly durable engine that you could just
about fix with a knife and fork.

> Only exception was the HK Belmont wagon we owned, must have been made
> after everyone at GMH got a big pay rise because it ran and drove very
> nicely, it was that good that it lasted a few years after my wife gave
> it to her father, previously none of his cars lasted more than 6mths, he
> was by far the worst destroyer of cars that I've meet, mostly crashed
> them but he also wasn't mechanically sympathetic yet he couldn't break
> the HK:-)
> He eventually wrote it off.

Fuck. Sounds like someone who should have taken the bus :)

I always liked the HTKG model Holdens. Had a few of them in various
guises over the years and always enjoyed driving them. They were an okay
car in their day.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<je8jkvFk5csU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 12:49:00 +1000
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 by: Daryl - Sat, 14 May 2022 02:49 UTC

On 14/5/2022 11:35 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 14/05/2022 9:38 am, Daryl wrote:
>> On 14/5/2022 7:26 am, John_H wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Compared to something like a 202 Kingswood they weren't a bad
>>> performer either as well as being 30kph faster.
>>>
>>
>> IMHO Kingswoods were very ordinary cars and performance wasn't one of
>> their features:-)
>
> 202 in the Kingswood? no. They were nothing flash. However a 202 in the
> LJ Torana was a different story. Combined with a 4 speed they were quite
> a fun little car even if they were a bit of a lead tipped arrow.
>
>> Back in the day my wife's car was a Mk1 Austin 1800, not without its
>> problems but a much nicer car to drive than any Holden of similar
>> vintage, I think people liked old Holdens because they were pretty
>> simple and almost idiot proof which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
>
> They were pretty reliable. The humble old Red Motor wasn't without it's
> issues on occasion, like piston failures in early 202's for example, but
> by and large they were an incredibly durable engine that you could just
> about fix with a knife and fork.
>
>
>> Only exception was the HK Belmont wagon we owned, must have been made
>> after everyone at GMH got a big pay rise because it ran and drove very
>> nicely, it was that good that it lasted a few years after my wife gave
>> it to her father, previously none of his cars lasted more than 6mths,
>> he was by far the worst destroyer of cars that I've meet, mostly
>> crashed them but he also wasn't mechanically sympathetic yet he
>> couldn't break the HK:-)
>> He eventually wrote it off.
>
> Fuck. Sounds like someone who should have taken the bus :)

Absolutely, being pissed 90% of the time didn't help, lost his license
for drink driving quite a few times, its a miracle that he never had a
serious crash that killed or seriously injured himself or anyone else.
He eventually died in his late 70's in 1997 from a heart attack.
>
> I always liked the HTKG model Holdens. Had a few of them in various
> guises over the years and always enjoyed driving them. They were an okay
> car in their day.
>

Agree, IMHO better even than later models.

--
Daryl

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<t5n9gr$u6j$1@dont-email.me>

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From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 14:00:22 +1000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Noddy - Sat, 14 May 2022 04:00 UTC

On 14/05/2022 12:49 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 14/5/2022 11:35 am, Noddy wrote:

>> Fuck. Sounds like someone who should have taken the bus :)
>
> Absolutely, being pissed 90% of the time didn't help, lost his license
> for drink driving quite a few times, its a miracle that he never had a
> serious crash that killed or seriously injured himself or anyone else.
> He eventually died in his late 70's in 1997 from a heart attack.

Grouse. Sounds like the rest of the road going public is safer for it.

<space left here for the whinging softcocks who can't go a day without
replying to any of my posts to make some ridiculously inane remark about
not wearing seat belts ↓↓↓↓↓)

>> I always liked the HTKG model Holdens. Had a few of them in various
>> guises over the years and always enjoyed driving them. They were an
>> okay car in their day.
>>
>
> Agree, IMHO better even than later models.

I've got spot for the HR, and always have had. Always been one of my
favourite model Holdens and I can't really tell you why. I've always
just liked them. The HTKG models were some of the best looking Holdens
though, and the Monaro was a great looking car that has got better with
the passage of time.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

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From: john4...@hotmail.com (John_H)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 14:25:51 +1000
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 by: John_H - Sat, 14 May 2022 04:25 UTC

Noddy wrote:
>On 11/05/2022 4:03 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 11/5/2022 2:52 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> Yeah, but it's a Triumph 2500for fuck's sake. You wouldn't be seen
>>> dead in one even if you were wearing an "Uncle Norman" jacket complete
>>> with leather elbow pads :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> LOL, I remember working on one when it was only a few years old, the
>> problem was lack of power, the owner had taken it to numerous workshops
>> and no one had made much of an improvement, I managed a to make a slight
>> improvement but in the end I think the owner gave up and sold it.
>> If he still had it today I would recommend swapping the engine for a
>> 90's model Toyota 2.5 I6 which would make more than double the power:-)
>
>They were typical of most things with 4 wheels that Triumph made: Total
>heaps of shit. They made world conquering bikes in their day, but their
>cars were hopeless.
What day would that have been? :))

I've own both Triumph cars and bikes and worked on heaps more of both
and the only half decent thing about their bikes was the relative
simplicity of the their B range vertical twin as compared to other
British makes. Their gearboxes were designed to leak oil (they had no
seal on the selector shaft) and their frames were made of licorice
(Norton, among others, were way ahead of them). Their only world
conquering effort I'm aware of was the Bonneville salt flat speed
record set in 1956 by a machine that bore no resemblance to a road
bike other than having two wheels. They never got a look in at either
GP or TT racing and by the late 60s jap road bikes were shitting all
over them in performance, handling and reliability. By the early 80s
the company was in receivership after which they morphed into
something bearing no resemblance to anything that went before.

During the same era the the Triumph TR range were way ahead of
whatever competition they had at the time. A TR2 broke the land speed
record for a production 2 litre car in 1953. It competed in numerous
rallies and races (including LeMans) and even won the 1955 Moomba TT
in your home state. Vic cops later used the TR3 as a highway pursuit
car. Factory TR4S entries won the team prize at LeMans in 1961
although you'd no doubt consider the Ferraris and Porsches that placed
ahead of them as heaps of shit as well!

Triumph cars also had numerous international rally successes up until
the early 70s.

The only thing the cars had in common with Triumph bikes in the post
war era was the demise of both as a direct consequence of the collapse
of the British motor industry. They were also entirely separate
companies for the whole of that period.

--
John H

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<je8pq7Fl8cvU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 14:34:11 +1000
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 by: Xeno - Sat, 14 May 2022 04:34 UTC

On 14/5/2022 8:28 am, John_H wrote:
> Xeno wrote:
>> On 12/5/2022 10:56 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>
>>> I remember being told about the same system on a TR6, don't know if its
>>> true but the rumor was that if you forgot to turn off the ign key or
>>> didn't start the engine straight away after turning the key the engine
>>> would flood?
>>>
>> Sounds a lot like bullshit. They have a diaphragm connected to engine
>> vacuum to control fuel mixture. If the engine isn't cranking or running,
>> there should be be no fuel getting through. If there's a fault, or
>> something has been maladjusted by a nuff nuff, then there is the
>> possibility of fuel flow when stationary. But definitely it is *not
>> normal*.
>
> Not even possible. They had an arragement called shuttle metering and
> sequential injection was controlled by a distributor. If the
> distributor wasn't rotating the shuttle couldn't operate. IOW no fuel
> could get past the shuttle.

Well, as I noted above, "If the engine isn't cranking or running,
there should be be no fuel getting through. I couldn't see how, given
the method of operation, how any fuel could leak when the system is
static but I was making allowances. The system is reminiscent of a DPA
injector pump in its distribution arrangement. Probably why diesel
mechanics *think* they can work on it.
>
>> The Lucas PI system is one of those systems where, if you know
>> nothing about how it operates or how to set one up, you need to stay
>> well away from. They are a relatively simple system but there are
>> caveats with adjustment.
>
> In fact the metering unit was fully preset and there were no in
> service adjustments within the system itself. The shuttle metering

Yes but, IIRC, the setting up of external items like the throttle bodies
was the issue. A lot of nuff nuffs used to get that wrong with twin and
triple carburettor setups FFS. Wear in the throttle body linkages could
create mixture issues as well if they aren't well synchronised.

> set up is described here.....
> http://www.lucasinjection.com/Lucas%20Mk2%20manual%20page%209.htm

Yes, I'd read that previously. I used to have some more comprehensive
info on that system and I was looking for it when Joe was here. Thought
it might have been of more use to him but seems I'd got rid of it in one
of my many recent cleanouts. Given he has the car, he probably has the
info on the Lucas PI system anyway. As I said, I'd never had the
opportunity to lay my hands on a Lucas PI system. Still have all my
Bosch books though and these date back as far as the 70s. When I cark
it, the Mrs will have a field day cleaning them all out.
>
> Correct operation was entirely dependant on vacuum and the various

Well, it uses vacuum as its load signal so that isn't unexpected.

> factors that affect it. An accurate vacuum gauge was the essential
> tool most of those who attempted to stuff around with the system
> didn't have. Knowing how to interpret the vacuum readings was the
> other essential.
>
Modern mechanics don't seem to realise that the vacuum gauge is *still*
an indispensable diagnosis tool, not to mention a tuning tool. You could
do the ignition timing by vacuum gauge far more accurately than by using
the factory timing marks. Those marks were a start point for timing but
every engine was different. The vacuum gauge let you set the optimum
timing for the specific engine. Back in the late 60s, early 70s, there
were some Falcon 6 engines for which the standard setting of, IIRC, 6
degrees BTC would turn the car into a Dog. The vacuum gauge indicated
that 10-12 degrees was correct. And that was on *new* cars still under
factory warranty.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<je8qg4FlbpoU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
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 by: Xeno - Sat, 14 May 2022 04:45 UTC

On 14/5/2022 2:25 pm, John_H wrote:
> Noddy wrote:
>> On 11/05/2022 4:03 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 11/5/2022 2:52 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>>> Yeah, but it's a Triumph 2500for fuck's sake. You wouldn't be seen
>>>> dead in one even if you were wearing an "Uncle Norman" jacket complete
>>>> with leather elbow pads :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> LOL, I remember working on one when it was only a few years old, the
>>> problem was lack of power, the owner had taken it to numerous workshops
>>> and no one had made much of an improvement, I managed a to make a slight
>>> improvement but in the end I think the owner gave up and sold it.
>>> If he still had it today I would recommend swapping the engine for a
>>> 90's model Toyota 2.5 I6 which would make more than double the power:-)
>>
>> They were typical of most things with 4 wheels that Triumph made: Total
>> heaps of shit. They made world conquering bikes in their day, but their
>> cars were hopeless.
>
> What day would that have been? :))

You'll have to make allowance for Darren, it's obvious he has had *no*
experience with either Triumph cars or the Triumph bikes. He is again
plucking shit out of his arse. No doubt the fact that *my friend* has a
rally Triumph forms a primary motivation. Certainly his comments aren't
based on any *facts*.
>
> I've own both Triumph cars and bikes and worked on heaps more of both
> and the only half decent thing about their bikes was the relative
> simplicity of the their B range vertical twin as compared to other
> British makes. Their gearboxes were designed to leak oil (they had no
> seal on the selector shaft) and their frames were made of licorice
> (Norton, among others, were way ahead of them). Their only world
> conquering effort I'm aware of was the Bonneville salt flat speed
> record set in 1956 by a machine that bore no resemblance to a road
> bike other than having two wheels. They never got a look in at either
> GP or TT racing and by the late 60s jap road bikes were shitting all
> over them in performance, handling and reliability. By the early 80s
> the company was in receivership after which they morphed into
> something bearing no resemblance to anything that went before.
>
> During the same era the the Triumph TR range were way ahead of
> whatever competition they had at the time. A TR2 broke the land speed
> record for a production 2 litre car in 1953. It competed in numerous
> rallies and races (including LeMans) and even won the 1955 Moomba TT
> in your home state. Vic cops later used the TR3 as a highway pursuit
> car. Factory TR4S entries won the team prize at LeMans in 1961
> although you'd no doubt consider the Ferraris and Porsches that placed
> ahead of them as heaps of shit as well!
>
> Triumph cars also had numerous international rally successes up until
> the early 70s.

They did indeed.
>
> The only thing the cars had in common with Triumph bikes in the post
> war era was the demise of both as a direct consequence of the collapse
> of the British motor industry. They were also entirely separate
> companies for the whole of that period.
>

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<t5nd2j$p9b$1@dont-email.me>

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From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 15:01:02 +1000
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 by: Noddy - Sat, 14 May 2022 05:01 UTC

On 14/05/2022 2:25 pm, John_H wrote:
> Noddy wrote:

>> They were typical of most things with 4 wheels that Triumph made: Total
>> heaps of shit. They made world conquering bikes in their day, but their
>> cars were hopeless.
>
> What day would that have been? :))

As far as bikes go? The 1950's were their big game changer with the
Speed Twin. As far as cars go? Any time they made one :)

> I've own both Triumph cars and bikes and worked on heaps more of both
> and the only half decent thing about their bikes was the relative
> simplicity of the their B range vertical twin as compared to other
> British makes.

Many around the world would probably disagree with you, but then
opinions are like arseholes. Everyone has one.

Their gearboxes were designed to leak oil (they had no
> seal on the selector shaft) and their frames were made of licorice
> (Norton, among others, were way ahead of them). Their only world
> conquering effort I'm aware of was the Bonneville salt flat speed
> record set in 1956 by a machine that bore no resemblance to a road
> bike other than having two wheels. They never got a look in at either
> GP or TT racing and by the late 60s jap road bikes were shitting all
> over them in performance, handling and reliability.

By the time the Japs got their stuff together they were shitting all
over *everyone*. Not just the Trumpies.

> By the early 80s the company was in receivership after which they morphed into
> something bearing no resemblance to anything that went before.

Like almost every other British and American bike manufacturer you mean?

> During the same era the the Triumph TR range were way ahead of
> whatever competition they had at the time. A TR2 broke the land speed
> record for a production 2 litre car in 1953. It competed in numerous
> rallies and races (including LeMans) and even won the 1955 Moomba TT
> in your home state. Vic cops later used the TR3 as a highway pursuit
> car.

They used many cars. Including Mini Coopers, Mitsubishi Magna's, "Plain
clothes" GT Falcons and Subaru's amongst them.

> Factory TR4S entries won the team prize at LeMans in 1961
> although you'd no doubt consider the Ferraris and Porsches that placed
> ahead of them as heaps of shit as well!

Some of them. Depends on exactly which models you're talking about :)

> Triumph cars also had numerous international rally successes up until
> the early 70s.

Yeah, you mentioned that the other day, and to be quite honest it
doesn't mean a hell of a lot unless you're deluded enough to think that
factory "works" cars competing in a closed event have any semblance to
what you see on the showroom floor.

A case in point. The 1968 London to Sydney Marathon was one of the
largest rally events ever staged anywhere in the world, and it attracted
an impressive field of well known competitors ranging from big budget
works teams to privateers in a host of different makes and models. It
was a gruelling event that took it's toll on the equipment, and in the
end it was won outright by Scottsman Andrew Cowan driving a Hillman
Hunter the team prize was won by Ford Australia with their fleet of
three XT GT Falcons ahead of Porsche and a few notable others.

Do you think the Hillman Hunter or XT GT made great rally cars? I sure
as shit don't but the results of that event suggest otherwise.

> The only thing the cars had in common with Triumph bikes in the post
> war era was the demise of both as a direct consequence of the collapse
> of the British motor industry. They were also entirely separate
> companies for the whole of that period.

That's a bit like saying Honda Bikes are built by a different company
than Honda cars. They might be made in different factories run by a
different management team, but at the end of the day they're both owned
and operated by Honda.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<je8sjcFlntjU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 15:21:45 +1000
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 by: Xeno - Sat, 14 May 2022 05:21 UTC

On 14/5/2022 3:01 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 14/05/2022 2:25 pm, John_H wrote:
>> Noddy wrote:
>
>>> They were typical of most things with 4 wheels that Triumph made: Total
>>> heaps of shit. They made world conquering bikes in their day, but their
>>> cars were hopeless.
>> What day would that have been?  :))
>
> As far as bikes go? The 1950's were their big game changer with the
> Speed Twin. As far as cars go? Any time they made one :)
>
>> I've own both Triumph cars and bikes and worked on heaps more of both
>> and the only half decent thing about their bikes was the relative
>> simplicity of the their B range vertical twin as compared to other
>> British makes.
>
> Many around the world would probably disagree with you, but then
> opinions are like arseholes. Everyone has one.

And your opinions are like the shit that dribbles out of your arse - and
are based on nothing more than that, it has to be said.
>

<further opinionated shit dribbling wiped and flushed>

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<je8ssjFlpddU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 15:26:40 +1000
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 by: Daryl - Sat, 14 May 2022 05:26 UTC

On 14/5/2022 2:00 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 14/05/2022 12:49 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 14/5/2022 11:35 am, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> Fuck. Sounds like someone who should have taken the bus :)
>>
>> Absolutely, being pissed 90% of the time didn't help, lost his license
>> for drink driving quite a few times, its a miracle that he never had a
>> serious crash that killed or seriously injured himself or anyone else.
>> He eventually died in his late 70's in 1997 from a heart attack.
>
> Grouse. Sounds like the rest of the road going public is safer for it.
>
> <space left here for the whinging softcocks who can't go a day without
> replying to any of my posts to make some ridiculously inane remark about
> not wearing seat belts ↓↓↓↓↓)
>
>
>
>
>>> I always liked the HTKG model Holdens. Had a few of them in various
>>> guises over the years and always enjoyed driving them. They were an
>>> okay car in their day.
>>>
>>
>> Agree, IMHO better even than later models.
>
> I've got spot for the HR, and always have had.

Owned a HR and hated it but to be fair it was well beyond its use by
date when I bought, cop ex brother in law got it for next to nothing
when he pulled over its driver because he was wandering all over the
road mostly due to very worn tie rods ends.
The driver got out and handed my BIL the keys and a signed rego transfer
then he walked away, BIL didn't want it so I gave him $50.00 for it.
I used to go to and from work for about 6mths before I finally got sick
and tired of constantly fixing it and freezing my nuts off due to the
lack of a heater.

Always been one of my
> favourite model Holdens and I can't really tell you why. I've always
> just liked them. The HTKG models were some of the best looking Holdens
> though, and the Monaro was a great looking car that has got better with
> the passage of time.
>

The only Holden I would consider owning would be a HK GTS Monaro but not
likely to ever happen due to the crazy prices they want for one.

--
Daryl

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<t5nfc6$tr0$1@dont-email.me>

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From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 15:40:18 +1000
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 by: Noddy - Sat, 14 May 2022 05:40 UTC

On 14/05/2022 3:26 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 14/5/2022 2:00 pm, Noddy wrote:

>>>> I always liked the HTKG model Holdens. Had a few of them in various
>>>> guises over the years and always enjoyed driving them. They were an
>>>> okay car in their day.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Agree, IMHO better even than later models.
>>
>> I've got spot for the HR, and always have had.
>
> Owned a HR and hated it but to be fair it was well beyond its use by
> date when I bought, cop ex brother in law got it for next to nothing
> when he pulled over its driver because he was wandering all over the
> road mostly due to very worn tie rods ends.
> The driver got out and handed my BIL the keys and a signed rego transfer
> then he walked away, BIL didn't want it so I gave him $50.00 for it.
> I used to go to and from work for about 6mths before I finally got sick
> and tired of constantly fixing it and freezing my nuts off due to the
> lack of a heater.

Lol :)

I've had a bunch of HR's ranging from a standard sedan to a ute I put a
chev and turbo 400 in, and cut the dash out and replaced it with one
from an LH Torana which was an almost perfect fit. I loved them at the
time, but if I drove one today it'd prolly be nothing like I remember
they were.

The Standard was a rare car, and I've never seen another one. Most
people bought Specials. The Standard was devoid of any kind of extras,
and it even lacked a key barrel on the driver's door. They only had one
on the passenger's side and you had to unlock the car from the left and
slide across the seat.

I guess most people thought paying the extra 37 bucks for the "Special"
was money well spent ;)

>  Always been one of my
>> favourite model Holdens and I can't really tell you why. I've always
>> just liked them. The HTKG models were some of the best looking Holdens
>> though, and the Monaro was a great looking car that has got better
>> with the passage of time.
>>
>
> The only Holden I would consider owning would be a HK GTS Monaro but not
> likely to ever happen due to the crazy prices they want for one.

Everything's going nuts at the moment, and there's no sign of things
settling down any time soon.

I haven't heard from the guy with the XA GT, and if I haven't buy now
I'm probably never going to. I've considered upping my offer to 75
grand, but I'm not sure if I really want to go that far considering the
work it needs, and I think he's fairly firm on his 80.

On the other hand, I bought a new car on Thursday. 2022 Ford Ranger
Wildtrak. They look pretty impressive, and I was able to wrangle a
decent deal. I'll let you know what it's like in a year which is about
when I can expect to get it :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

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