I believe Vodafone is now using only 800MHz and 2400MHz.

The corresponding wavelengths are 12cm and 37cm.

Are those lengths an indication of how much to move the handset if
reception is poor on a given call (with the phone lying on a desk).

Pamela wrote:

> I believe Vodafone is now using only 800MHz and 2400MHz.

Was that a typo for 2100 MHz? (which would be their 3G spectrum re-used
for 4G/5G now) but they have 900, 1500, 2600 and 3400 MHz as well.

<https://pedroc.co.uk/content/uk-commercial-mobile-spectrum>

On Tue 14/11/2023 15:56, Andy Burns wrote:
> Pamela wrote:
>
>> I believe Vodafone is now using only 800MHz and 2400MHz.
>
> Was that a typo for 2100 MHz? (which would be their 3G spectrum re-used
> for 4G/5G now) but they have 900, 1500, 2600 and 3400 MHz as well.
>
> <https://pedroc.co.uk/content/uk-commercial-mobile-spectrum>

Don't think so. Despite what the charts show, the 2110 band is solely
used for 3G - which VF has already or is in the process of shutting down.

IMSMC VF will be using 800 for 4G and later 5G, 900 for 2G and some
frequencies in the low 1800 band for 2G as well, and 2600 for 4G. It
looks as though primary use for all SPs on 5G will be the 3500-ish band.

Per the movement of a phone to improve signal you would need to move it
half a wavelength, so about 18cms for the 800 band and around 5-6cms for
2600.

Woody wrote:

> Despite what the charts show, the 2110 band is solely used for 3G -
> which VF has already or is in the process of shutting down.

Why would they stop using any part of their spectrum for 3G except to
re-use it for 4G/5G?

Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Tue 14/11/2023 15:56, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Pamela wrote:
>>
>>> I believe Vodafone is now using only 800MHz and 2400MHz.
>>
>> Was that a typo for 2100 MHz? (which would be their 3G spectrum re-used
>> for 4G/5G now) but they have 900, 1500, 2600 and 3400 MHz as well.
>>
>> <https://pedroc.co.uk/content/uk-commercial-mobile-spectrum>
>
>
> Don't think so. Despite what the charts show, the 2110 band is solely
> used for 3G - which VF has already or is in the process of shutting down.
>
Do you have a cite for that?

On 14/11/2023 15:42, Pamela wrote:
> I believe Vodafone is now using only 800MHz and 2400MHz.
>
> The corresponding wavelengths are 12cm and 37cm.
>
> Are those lengths an indication of how much to move the handset if
> reception is poor on a given call (with the phone lying on a desk).

The short answer could well be "NO" - if space diversity has been
deployed at the base station ?

On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 18:20:55 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
> Woody wrote:
>
> > Despite what the charts show, the 2110 band is solely used for 3G -
> > which VF has already or is in the process of shutting down.
> Why would they stop using any part of their spectrum for 3G except to
> re-use it for 4G/5G?

Er sell it?

On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 03:01:34 -0800 (PST), "notya...@gmail.com"
<notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 18:20:55 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Woody wrote:
>>
>> > Despite what the charts show, the 2110 band is solely used for 3G -
>> > which VF has already or is in the process of shutting down.
>> Why would they stop using any part of their spectrum for 3G except to
>> re-use it for 4G/5G?
>
>Er sell it?

To whom, if not to another mobile operator?

On 14/11/2023 18:08, Woody wrote:
> Per the movement of a phone to improve signal you would need to move it
> half a wavelength, so about 18cms for the 800 band and around 5-6cms for
> 2600.

It depends on the directions from which the multipath signals are
coming, but it an be as little as a quarter if you are dealing with a
simple reflection. Also, if the issue is not multipath, but simple
obstruction, all bets are off.

The simplest analogue of the quarter wave case is a closed end organ
pipe, which goes from maximum air movement to nothing in a quarter wave.

Also, if the issue is not multipath, but simple
> obstruction, all bets are off.

Exactly - if its just a low RSL then moving 6 cm will make no diffenece
whatever.

You would probably be better off simply rotating the handset in some
plane or other as the internal antenna is bound to be directional.

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 03:01:34 -0800 (PST), "notya...@gmail.com"
> <notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 18:20:55 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Woody wrote:
>>>
>>>> Despite what the charts show, the 2110 band is solely used for 3G -
>>>> which VF has already or is in the process of shutting down.
>>> Why would they stop using any part of their spectrum for 3G except to
>>> re-use it for 4G/5G?
>>
>> Er sell it?
>
> To whom, if not to another mobile operator?
>

As far as I know spectrum is licensed from OfCOM and is not tradeable.
Otherwise the operators could all bid low during the spectrum auctions and
then sell the results amongst themselves and deprive HMG of lots of cash.

The operators are converting 3G spectrum to 4/5G use. The latter are more
spectrally efficient so they can support more data capacity per Hz of
spectrum.

Tweed wrote:

> As far as I know spectrum is licensed from OfCOM and is not tradeable.

Maybe not tradeable, but it has been known for them to swap allocations
so they "butt up" to existing allocations allowing better slicing into
channels.

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Tweed wrote:
>
>> As far as I know spectrum is licensed from OfCOM and is not tradeable.
>
> Maybe not tradeable, but it has been known for them to swap allocations
> so they "butt up" to existing allocations allowing better slicing into
> channels.
>

I believe that has to be done with OfCOM’s agreement.

On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 15:27:31 David Woolley wrote:

>On 14/11/2023 18:08, Woody wrote:
>> Per the movement of a phone to improve signal you would need to move
>>it half a wavelength, so about 18cms for the 800 band and around
>>5-6cms for 2600.
>
>
>It depends on the directions from which the multipath signals are
>coming, but it an be as little as a quarter if you are dealing with a
>simple reflection. Also, if the issue is not multipath, but simple
>obstruction, all bets are off.
>
>The simplest analogue of the quarter wave case is a closed end organ
>pipe, which goes from maximum air movement to nothing in a quarter wave.

Or a clarinet!

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

On Wednesday, 15 November 2023 at 18:44:55 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
> Tweed wrote:
>
> > As far as I know spectrum is licensed from OfCOM and is not tradeable.
> Maybe not tradeable, but it has been known for them to swap allocations
> so they "butt up" to existing allocations allowing better slicing into
> channels.

And of course whole MNO's can merge or be taken over Orange & 121 => EE => BT EE and more recently Virgin (MVNO) and O2 and at the CMA Voda and Three.

notya...@gmail.com <notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, 15 November 2023 at 18:44:55 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Tweed wrote:
>>
>>> As far as I know spectrum is licensed from OfCOM and is not tradeable.
>> Maybe not tradeable, but it has been known for them to swap allocations
>> so they "butt up" to existing allocations allowing better slicing into
>> channels.
>
> And of course whole MNO's can merge or be taken over Orange & 121 => EE
> => BT EE and more recently Virgin (MVNO) and O2 and at the CMA Voda and Three.
>

Well Virgin have never had any of their spectrum of their own, so their
merger with o2 has little to do with spectrum allocation. If I remember
correctly, and it was a while ago now, when 121 and orange merged they had
to hand back some spectrum.

On Thu 16/11/2023 12:10, Tweed wrote:
> notya...@gmail.com <notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 15 November 2023 at 18:44:55 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Tweed wrote:
>>>
>>>> As far as I know spectrum is licensed from OfCOM and is not tradeable.
>>> Maybe not tradeable, but it has been known for them to swap allocations
>>> so they "butt up" to existing allocations allowing better slicing into
>>> channels.
>>
>> And of course whole MNO's can merge or be taken over Orange & 121 => EE
>> => BT EE and more recently Virgin (MVNO) and O2 and at the CMA Voda and Three.
>>
>
> Well Virgin have never had any of their spectrum of their own, so their
> merger with o2 has little to do with spectrum allocation. If I remember
> correctly, and it was a while ago now, when 121 and orange merged they had
> to hand back some spectrum.
>

121 was taken over and became T-Mobile a long time back. Some years back
as you say Orange and T-Mob merged and became Everything Everywhere or
EE. Then last year (or was it the year before?) they were bought out by
BT who (in their wisdom?) decided to keep both names.

Virginmedia was taken over by Liberty Global (who now own F1) a couple
of years ago and LG also bought half of mmO2 (to be technically correct)
whence they pushed VM onto the O2 infrastructure. However somewhere
along the line in the last few years VM became a standalone MNO in their
own right as they were part of the same company group as O2.

As part of the deal to buy O2 from Telefonica the latter retained
ownership of GiffGaff which still runs on O2 and not being under the
control of any UK outfit is probably why they are consistently voted the
best MVNO!

Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Thu 16/11/2023 12:10, Tweed wrote:
>> notya...@gmail.com <notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, 15 November 2023 at 18:44:55 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> Tweed wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As far as I know spectrum is licensed from OfCOM and is not tradeable.
>>>> Maybe not tradeable, but it has been known for them to swap allocations
>>>> so they "butt up" to existing allocations allowing better slicing into
>>>> channels.
>>>
>>> And of course whole MNO's can merge or be taken over Orange & 121 => EE
>>> => BT EE and more recently Virgin (MVNO) and O2 and at the CMA Voda and Three.
>>>
>>
>> Well Virgin have never had any of their spectrum of their own, so their
>> merger with o2 has little to do with spectrum allocation. If I remember
>> correctly, and it was a while ago now, when 121 and orange merged they had
>> to hand back some spectrum.
>>
>
> 121 was taken over and became T-Mobile a long time back. Some years back
> as you say Orange and T-Mob merged and became Everything Everywhere or
> EE. Then last year (or was it the year before?) they were bought out by
> BT who (in their wisdom?) decided to keep both names.
>
> Virginmedia was taken over by Liberty Global (who now own F1) a couple
> of years ago and LG also bought half of mmO2 (to be technically correct)
> whence they pushed VM onto the O2 infrastructure. However somewhere
> along the line in the last few years VM became a standalone MNO in their
> own right as they were part of the same company group as O2.
>
> As part of the deal to buy O2 from Telefonica the latter retained
> ownership of GiffGaff which still runs on O2 and not being under the
> control of any UK outfit is probably why they are consistently voted the
> best MVNO!
>
>
>

O2 is 50:50 owned by Telefonica and Liberty Global, so to be clear LG has
only purchased half of O2, apparently it’s the only profitable part of the
VM/O2 empire. The cable network is barely profitable.