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aus+uk / uk.transport.london / Barriers across Whitehall (road)

SubjectAuthor
* Barriers across Whitehall (road)NY
+* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Recliner
|`* Barriers across Whitehall (road)NY
| `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Recliner
|  +* Barriers across Whitehall (road)NY
|  |`- Barriers across Whitehall (road)Recliner
|  `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Roland Perry
|   `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Recliner
|    +- Barriers across Whitehall (road)Roland Perry
|    `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Graeme Wall
|     +* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Roland Perry
|     |`* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Muttley
|     | `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Roland Perry
|     |  `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Muttley
|     |   +- Barriers across Whitehall (road)Graeme Wall
|     |   `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Roland Perry
|     |    `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Muttley
|     |     `- Barriers across Whitehall (road)D A Stocks
|     `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Muttley
|      `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Graeme Wall
|       +* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Muttley
|       |`* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Graeme Wall
|       | `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Muttley
|       |  `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Graeme Wall
|       |   `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Muttley
|       |    `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Graeme Wall
|       |     `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Muttley
|       |      `- Barriers across Whitehall (road)Graeme Wall
|       `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Roland Perry
|        `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Graeme Wall
|         `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Roland Perry
|          `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Graeme Wall
|           `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Roland Perry
|            `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Graeme Wall
|             `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Roland Perry
|              +- Barriers across Whitehall (road)Graeme Wall
|              `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Muttley
|               `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Robin
|                `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Muttley
|                 +- Barriers across Whitehall (road)Roland Perry
|                 +* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Robin
|                 |`* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Roland Perry
|                 | `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Graeme Wall
|                 |  +* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Muttley
|                 |  |`- Barriers across Whitehall (road)Graeme Wall
|                 |  `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Roland Perry
|                 |   `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Graeme Wall
|                 |    `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Roland Perry
|                 |     `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Graeme Wall
|                 |      `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Roland Perry
|                 |       `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Graeme Wall
|                 |        `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Roland Perry
|                 |         `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Graeme Wall
|                 |          `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Roland Perry
|                 |           `- Barriers across Whitehall (road)Graeme Wall
|                 `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Arthur Conan Doyle
|                  `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Robin
|                   `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Roland Perry
|                    `* Barriers across Whitehall (road)Robin
|                     `- Barriers across Whitehall (road)Roland Perry
`- Barriers across Whitehall (road)Theo

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Barriers across Whitehall (road)

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 by: NY - Mon, 19 Sep 2022 23:08 UTC

I notice on today's TV coverage of the Queen's funeral that there
appeared to be yellow metal barriers (in the open position) that could
be closed across the end of Whitehall near Parliament Square. Are these
a new permanent fixture, or are they something that was used for crowd
control during the various processions?

https://i.postimg.cc/K8sd1gzy/vlcsnap-2022-09-19-23h55m49s335.png

The comparative view on Google Streetview (dated June 2022) is

https://goo.gl/maps/8WmUJu7gEBCCo3GY8

Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)

<tgatfa$18tbm$2@dont-email.me>

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 23:20:10 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Recliner - Mon, 19 Sep 2022 23:20 UTC

NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> I notice on today's TV coverage of the Queen's funeral that there
> appeared to be yellow metal barriers (in the open position) that could
> be closed across the end of Whitehall near Parliament Square.

They were closed when I was there on Friday:
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52366634244/in/album-72177720302200398/>

> Are these
> a new permanent fixture, or are they something that was used for crowd
> control during the various processions?

I suspect they're new and permanent.

>
> https://i.postimg.cc/K8sd1gzy/vlcsnap-2022-09-19-23h55m49s335.png
>
> The comparative view on Google Streetview (dated June 2022) is
>
> https://goo.gl/maps/8WmUJu7gEBCCo3GY8
>
>

Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)

<CMScnVxEvcnVYbX-nZ2dnZfqn_Vj4p2d@brightview.co.uk>

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Subject: Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)
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 by: NY - Mon, 19 Sep 2022 23:33 UTC

On 20/09/2022 00:20, Recliner wrote:
> NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>> I notice on today's TV coverage of the Queen's funeral that there
>> appeared to be yellow metal barriers (in the open position) that could
>> be closed across the end of Whitehall near Parliament Square.
>
> They were closed when I was there on Friday:
> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52366634244/in/album-72177720302200398/>
>
>> Are these
>> a new permanent fixture, or are they something that was used for crowd
>> control during the various processions?
>
> I suspect they're new and permanent.

I wonder if the other approaches to Parliament Square (from Birdcage
Walk, Millbank and Westminster Bridge) have the same barriers. I presume
they can be closed quickly if a terrorist vehicle is reported as
approaching the Houses of Parliament.

I noticed that Westminster Bridge had a high barrier which looked like a
building site fence across the whole width (including pavements)

https://i.postimg.cc/TYBSV5mj/vlcsnap-2022-09-20-00h27m07s076.png

I imagine there was no access, even to pedestrians, to that part of
Parliament Square from Westminster Bridge, during the procession.

Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 23:48:50 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Recliner - Mon, 19 Sep 2022 23:48 UTC

NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> On 20/09/2022 00:20, Recliner wrote:
>> NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>> I notice on today's TV coverage of the Queen's funeral that there
>>> appeared to be yellow metal barriers (in the open position) that could
>>> be closed across the end of Whitehall near Parliament Square.
>>
>> They were closed when I was there on Friday:
>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52366634244/in/album-72177720302200398/>
>>
>>> Are these
>>> a new permanent fixture, or are they something that was used for crowd
>>> control during the various processions?
>>
>> I suspect they're new and permanent.
>
> I wonder if the other approaches to Parliament Square (from Birdcage
> Walk, Millbank and Westminster Bridge) have the same barriers. I presume
> they can be closed quickly if a terrorist vehicle is reported as
> approaching the Houses of Parliament.

Yes, could be. I may go and take a look in a few weeks. Or, could it be
that Whitehall is the road being protected?

I remember the distant days in the 1970s when the public could walk through
Downing Street. Now you see this:
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52366634184/in/album-72177720302200398/>

>
> I noticed that Westminster Bridge had a high barrier which looked like a
> building site fence across the whole width (including pavements)
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/TYBSV5mj/vlcsnap-2022-09-20-00h27m07s076.png
>
> I imagine there was no access, even to pedestrians, to that part of
> Parliament Square from Westminster Bridge, during the procession.

Yes, it looks that way.

Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)

<wpednWZwbIzymrT-nZ2dnZfqnPVi4p2d@brightview.co.uk>

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From: me...@privacy.net (NY)
Subject: Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
References: <B6mcnbmzMuoZa7X-nZ2dnZfqn_Vj4p2d@brightview.co.uk> <tgatfa$18tbm$2@dont-email.me> <CMScnVxEvcnVYbX-nZ2dnZfqn_Vj4p2d@brightview.co.uk> <tgav52$1918n$2@dont-email.me>
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 by: NY - Tue, 20 Sep 2022 00:21 UTC

On 20/09/2022 00:48, Recliner wrote:
> I remember the distant days in the 1970s when the public could walk through
> Downing Street. Now you see this:
> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52366634184/in/album-72177720302200398/>

Yes I've walked along the opposite side to Number 10, staying behind the
barriers on the kerb, and down the steps into Horseguards Parade. Not
possible any more.

Did that end at the same time as the wrought iron gates were erected, or
was it first prohibited before that, at a time when the only "barrier"
at the Whitehall end of Downing Street was the policemen shouting out
"oi, you - NO!".

Shortly after the gates went up, I saw the policemen had photos of
Number 10 on boards that they showed the tourists, to say "this is what
you could see if you could still go along the street".

Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)

<tgb3s2$19cu6$2@dont-email.me>

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 01:09:22 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Recliner - Tue, 20 Sep 2022 01:09 UTC

NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> On 20/09/2022 00:48, Recliner wrote:
>> I remember the distant days in the 1970s when the public could walk through
>> Downing Street. Now you see this:
>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/52366634184/in/album-72177720302200398/>
>
> Yes I've walked along the opposite side to Number 10, staying behind the
> barriers on the kerb, and down the steps into Horseguards Parade. Not
> possible any more.
>
> Did that end at the same time as the wrought iron gates were erected, or
> was it first prohibited before that, at a time when the only "barrier"
> at the Whitehall end of Downing Street was the policemen shouting out
> "oi, you - NO!".
>
> Shortly after the gates went up, I saw the policemen had photos of
> Number 10 on boards that they showed the tourists, to say "this is what
> you could see if you could still go along the street".
>

I wonder if the day may come when there's pressure to move the UK centre of
government and PM's residence to somewhere more secure and smarter? For
example, would the soon-to-be vacant Clarence House be a better, more
secure PM residence? Could the PM's office be relocated to Lancaster
House?

Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)

<Dpe18BSBaZKjFAEZ@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 11:31:29 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Tue, 20 Sep 2022 10:31 UTC

In message <tgav52$1918n$2@dont-email.me>, at 23:48:50 on Mon, 19 Sep
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

>I remember the distant days in the 1970s when the public could walk through
>Downing Street.

Yes, it was common for tourists (and even the occasional aspiring
political candidate) to get their photo taken outside number 10.

Nowadays you need to get invited first (this from a little over ten
years ago; wife and colleague going to see Cameron on International
Womens Day):

<http://perry.co.uk/images/Westminster-20120308.jpg>

And on TV that evening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lC_T0BrChw

--
Roland Perry

Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 14:26:25 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Recliner - Tue, 20 Sep 2022 14:26 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <tgav52$1918n$2@dont-email.me>, at 23:48:50 on Mon, 19 Sep
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>> I remember the distant days in the 1970s when the public could walk through
>> Downing Street.
>
> Yes, it was common for tourists (and even the occasional aspiring
> political candidate) to get their photo taken outside number 10.
>
> Nowadays you need to get invited first (this from a little over ten
> years ago; wife and colleague going to see Cameron on International
> Womens Day):
>
> <http://perry.co.uk/images/Westminster-20120308.jpg>
>
> And on TV that evening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lC_T0BrChw
>

Of course there's one group of outsiders who regularly visit and spend time
in Downing Street: journalists and TV production crews. I wonder how much
vetting they need to gain access? Presumably they must work for an
accredited publisher/TV company?

Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 08:02:14 +0100
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 by: Roland Perry - Wed, 21 Sep 2022 07:02 UTC

In message <tgciih$1hf5r$2@dont-email.me>, at 14:26:25 on Tue, 20 Sep
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <tgav52$1918n$2@dont-email.me>, at 23:48:50 on Mon, 19 Sep
>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>> I remember the distant days in the 1970s when the public could walk through
>>> Downing Street.
>>
>> Yes, it was common for tourists (and even the occasional aspiring
>> political candidate) to get their photo taken outside number 10.
>>
>> Nowadays you need to get invited first (this from a little over ten
>> years ago; wife and colleague going to see Cameron on International
>> Womens Day):
>>
>> <http://perry.co.uk/images/Westminster-20120308.jpg>
>>
>> And on TV that evening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lC_T0BrChw
>
>Of course there's one group of outsiders who regularly visit and spend time
>in Downing Street: journalists and TV production crews. I wonder how much
>vetting they need to gain access? Presumably they must work for an
>accredited publisher/TV company?

I wouldn't necessarily expect them to arrive via the gateway onto
Whitehall, also some of them (like the central lobby for ages now)
perhaps aren't actually in Downing St, but in a virtual studio with a
stationary camera providing the background [which in turn might not even
be a real-time background].
--
Roland Perry

Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)
Date: 22 Sep 2022 15:30:12 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
Message-ID: <qXj*DXXYy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
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 by: Theo - Thu, 22 Sep 2022 14:30 UTC

NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> I notice on today's TV coverage of the Queen's funeral that there
> appeared to be yellow metal barriers (in the open position) that could
> be closed across the end of Whitehall near Parliament Square. Are these
> a new permanent fixture, or are they something that was used for crowd
> control during the various processions?

Something similar was erected in Cambridge in 2020:

https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/news/king-s-parade-anti-terror-barrier-to-be-permanent-fixture-9204993/

The back story is that either the County Council or the local plod were
informed by TPTB that their anti terrorist measures weren't up to scratch,
that King's College Chapel was a potential high-profile location for a
terrorist incident and Something Must Be Done.

Hence the barrier, which creates a huge bottleneck on one of the
busiest cycle routes in the city.

Theo

Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2022 20:24:49 +0100
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 by: Graeme Wall - Sun, 25 Sep 2022 19:24 UTC

On 20/09/2022 15:26, Recliner wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <tgav52$1918n$2@dont-email.me>, at 23:48:50 on Mon, 19 Sep
>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>> I remember the distant days in the 1970s when the public could walk through
>>> Downing Street.
>>
>> Yes, it was common for tourists (and even the occasional aspiring
>> political candidate) to get their photo taken outside number 10.
>>
>> Nowadays you need to get invited first (this from a little over ten
>> years ago; wife and colleague going to see Cameron on International
>> Womens Day):
>>
>> <http://perry.co.uk/images/Westminster-20120308.jpg>
>>
>> And on TV that evening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lC_T0BrChw
>>
>
> Of course there's one group of outsiders who regularly visit and spend time
> in Downing Street: journalists and TV production crews. I wonder how much
> vetting they need to gain access? Presumably they must work for an
> accredited publisher/TV company?
>

For many years I had annual clearance to enter Downing Street (indoors
as well as out) and The Houses of Parliament, initially through my
employer (TVS) and when I went freelance, the BBC, who had me on their
roster to be available for elections and the State Opening of
Parliament. And yes, I gather I had a fairly thorough vetting. Mind you
when I originally joined the BBC I had, allegedly, been vetted by MI5
just to work in studios.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 07:09:19 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 06:09 UTC

In message <tgq9u1$3eesb$2@dont-email.me>, at 20:24:49 on Sun, 25 Sep
2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 20/09/2022 15:26, Recliner wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <tgav52$1918n$2@dont-email.me>, at 23:48:50 on Mon, 19 Sep
>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>> I remember the distant days in the 1970s when the public could walk through
>>>> Downing Street.
>>>
>>> Yes, it was common for tourists (and even the occasional aspiring
>>> political candidate) to get their photo taken outside number 10.
>>>
>>> Nowadays you need to get invited first (this from a little over ten
>>> years ago; wife and colleague going to see Cameron on International
>>> Womens Day):
>>>
>>> <http://perry.co.uk/images/Westminster-20120308.jpg>
>>>
>>> And on TV that evening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lC_T0BrChw
>>>
>> Of course there's one group of outsiders who regularly visit and
>>spend time in Downing Street: journalists and TV production crews. I
>>wonder how much vetting they need to gain access? Presumably they
>>must work for an accredited publisher/TV company?
>
>For many years I had annual clearance to enter Downing Street (indoors
>as well as out) and The Houses of Parliament, initially through my
>employer (TVS) and when I went freelance, the BBC, who had me on their
>roster to be available for elections and the State Opening of
>Parliament. And yes, I gather I had a fairly thorough vetting. Mind you
>when I originally joined the BBC I had, allegedly, been vetted by MI5
>just to work in studios.

There's various levels of vetting, all the way up to the one where they
allegedly go talk to your schoolteachers and interview you face to face
for a couple of hours. Some vetting is linked primarily to establishing
your identity beyond reasonable doubt, and then using that to check
criminal records and so on.

When I went to a G8 fringe meeting in number ten, it was surprisingly
informal, in the sense of being waved through the gate at the end of the
street and indoors, without having to provide any physical credentials
or have gone through any 'application process'. Was this because they
brief the security people on who is expected each day, which doesn't
seem to me to scale very well.
--
Roland Perry

Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)

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Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 15:28:07 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 15:28 UTC

On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 20:24:49 +0100
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 20/09/2022 15:26, Recliner wrote:
>> Of course there's one group of outsiders who regularly visit and spend time
>> in Downing Street: journalists and TV production crews. I wonder how much
>> vetting they need to gain access? Presumably they must work for an
>> accredited publisher/TV company?
>>
>
>For many years I had annual clearance to enter Downing Street (indoors
>as well as out) and The Houses of Parliament, initially through my
>employer (TVS) and when I went freelance, the BBC, who had me on their
>roster to be available for elections and the State Opening of
>Parliament. And yes, I gather I had a fairly thorough vetting. Mind you
>when I originally joined the BBC I had, allegedly, been vetted by MI5
>just to work in studios.

Sounds like someone was having you on. MI5 probably had more important things
to do than vet some AV grunt at the BBC.

Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)

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Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 15:33:51 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 15:33 UTC

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 07:09:19 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <tgq9u1$3eesb$2@dont-email.me>, at 20:24:49 on Sun, 25 Sep
>2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>For many years I had annual clearance to enter Downing Street (indoors
>>as well as out) and The Houses of Parliament, initially through my
>>employer (TVS) and when I went freelance, the BBC, who had me on their
>>roster to be available for elections and the State Opening of
>>Parliament. And yes, I gather I had a fairly thorough vetting. Mind you
>>when I originally joined the BBC I had, allegedly, been vetted by MI5
>>just to work in studios.
>
>There's various levels of vetting, all the way up to the one where they
>allegedly go talk to your schoolteachers and interview you face to face
>for a couple of hours. Some vetting is linked primarily to establishing
>your identity beyond reasonable doubt, and then using that to check
>criminal records and so on.

The DBS check takes care of basic CRB stuff.

>When I went to a G8 fringe meeting in number ten, it was surprisingly
>informal, in the sense of being waved through the gate at the end of the
>street and indoors, without having to provide any physical credentials
>or have gone through any 'application process'. Was this because they
>brief the security people on who is expected each day, which doesn't
>seem to me to scale very well.

I hate to break the news to you but its probably because you were a nobody
going to an irrelevant meeting where there was nobody important who knew
anything important.

Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 16:51:20 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Graeme Wall - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 15:51 UTC

On 26/09/2022 16:28, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 20:24:49 +0100
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 20/09/2022 15:26, Recliner wrote:
>>> Of course there's one group of outsiders who regularly visit and spend time
>>> in Downing Street: journalists and TV production crews. I wonder how much
>>> vetting they need to gain access? Presumably they must work for an
>>> accredited publisher/TV company?
>>>
>>
>> For many years I had annual clearance to enter Downing Street (indoors
>> as well as out) and The Houses of Parliament, initially through my
>> employer (TVS) and when I went freelance, the BBC, who had me on their
>> roster to be available for elections and the State Opening of
>> Parliament. And yes, I gather I had a fairly thorough vetting. Mind you
>> when I originally joined the BBC I had, allegedly, been vetted by MI5
>> just to work in studios.
>
> Sounds like someone was having you on. MI5 probably had more important things
> to do than vet some AV grunt at the BBC.
>

That's where you are wrong. It is well established that engineering
recruits[1] as well as production staff, were vetted by MI5 at that
time. I even had to sign the Official Secrets Act.

[1] Camera and sound crew always came under engineering at the BBC.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)

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Subject: Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 15:56 UTC

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 16:51:20 +0100
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 26/09/2022 16:28, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 20:24:49 +0100
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 20/09/2022 15:26, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Of course there's one group of outsiders who regularly visit and spend time
>
>>>> in Downing Street: journalists and TV production crews. I wonder how much
>>>> vetting they need to gain access? Presumably they must work for an
>>>> accredited publisher/TV company?
>>>>
>>>
>>> For many years I had annual clearance to enter Downing Street (indoors
>>> as well as out) and The Houses of Parliament, initially through my
>>> employer (TVS) and when I went freelance, the BBC, who had me on their
>>> roster to be available for elections and the State Opening of
>>> Parliament. And yes, I gather I had a fairly thorough vetting. Mind you
>>> when I originally joined the BBC I had, allegedly, been vetted by MI5
>>> just to work in studios.
>>
>> Sounds like someone was having you on. MI5 probably had more important things
>
>> to do than vet some AV grunt at the BBC.
>>
>
>That's where you are wrong. It is well established that engineering
>recruits[1] as well as production staff, were vetted by MI5 at that

Well established where?

>time. I even had to sign the Official Secrets Act.

So? I've signed it too yet there was no sign of spooks anywhere. Its a
signature on a page that only matters after the event so they can bang you
up if you've been caught flogging stuff to foreign powers.

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 16:59:01 +0100
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 by: Graeme Wall - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 15:59 UTC

On 26/09/2022 16:56, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 16:51:20 +0100
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 26/09/2022 16:28, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 20:24:49 +0100
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 20/09/2022 15:26, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> Of course there's one group of outsiders who regularly visit and spend time
>>
>>>>> in Downing Street: journalists and TV production crews. I wonder how much
>>>>> vetting they need to gain access? Presumably they must work for an
>>>>> accredited publisher/TV company?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For many years I had annual clearance to enter Downing Street (indoors
>>>> as well as out) and The Houses of Parliament, initially through my
>>>> employer (TVS) and when I went freelance, the BBC, who had me on their
>>>> roster to be available for elections and the State Opening of
>>>> Parliament. And yes, I gather I had a fairly thorough vetting. Mind you
>>>> when I originally joined the BBC I had, allegedly, been vetted by MI5
>>>> just to work in studios.
>>>
>>> Sounds like someone was having you on. MI5 probably had more important things
>>
>>> to do than vet some AV grunt at the BBC.
>>>
>>
>> That's where you are wrong. It is well established that engineering
>> recruits[1] as well as production staff, were vetted by MI5 at that
>
> Well established where?

<https://www.bbc.com/historyofthebbc/anniversaries/august/mi5-vetting>

>
>> time. I even had to sign the Official Secrets Act.
>
> So? I've signed it too yet there was no sign of spooks anywhere. Its a
> signature on a page that only matters after the event so they can bang you
> up if you've been caught flogging stuff to foreign powers.
>
>

Wonder how much I'd get for a script of Are You Being Served from the
Russians.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)

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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 16:15 UTC

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 16:59:01 +0100
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 26/09/2022 16:56, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 16:51:20 +0100
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 26/09/2022 16:28, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 20:24:49 +0100
>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 20/09/2022 15:26, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> Of course there's one group of outsiders who regularly visit and spend
>time
>>>
>>>>>> in Downing Street: journalists and TV production crews. I wonder how
>much
>>>>>> vetting they need to gain access? Presumably they must work for an
>>>>>> accredited publisher/TV company?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> For many years I had annual clearance to enter Downing Street (indoors
>>>>> as well as out) and The Houses of Parliament, initially through my
>>>>> employer (TVS) and when I went freelance, the BBC, who had me on their
>>>>> roster to be available for elections and the State Opening of
>>>>> Parliament. And yes, I gather I had a fairly thorough vetting. Mind you
>>>>> when I originally joined the BBC I had, allegedly, been vetted by MI5
>>>>> just to work in studios.
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like someone was having you on. MI5 probably had more important
>things
>>>
>>>> to do than vet some AV grunt at the BBC.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's where you are wrong. It is well established that engineering
>>> recruits[1] as well as production staff, were vetted by MI5 at that
>>
>> Well established where?
>
><https://www.bbc.com/historyofthebbc/anniversaries/august/mi5-vetting>

An old Brigadier topping up his army pension checking some staff CVs is not the
same as MI5 vetting all production floor staff.

>> So? I've signed it too yet there was no sign of spooks anywhere. Its a
>> signature on a page that only matters after the event so they can bang you
>> up if you've been caught flogging stuff to foreign powers.
>>
>>
>
>Wonder how much I'd get for a script of Are You Being Served from the
>Russians.

Was one of the characters based on you?

Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 19:01:22 +0100
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 by: Graeme Wall - Mon, 26 Sep 2022 18:01 UTC

On 26/09/2022 17:15, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 16:59:01 +0100
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 26/09/2022 16:56, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 16:51:20 +0100
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 26/09/2022 16:28, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 20:24:49 +0100
>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 20/09/2022 15:26, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>> Of course there's one group of outsiders who regularly visit and spend
>> time
>>>>
>>>>>>> in Downing Street: journalists and TV production crews. I wonder how
>> much
>>>>>>> vetting they need to gain access? Presumably they must work for an
>>>>>>> accredited publisher/TV company?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For many years I had annual clearance to enter Downing Street (indoors
>>>>>> as well as out) and The Houses of Parliament, initially through my
>>>>>> employer (TVS) and when I went freelance, the BBC, who had me on their
>>>>>> roster to be available for elections and the State Opening of
>>>>>> Parliament. And yes, I gather I had a fairly thorough vetting. Mind you
>>>>>> when I originally joined the BBC I had, allegedly, been vetted by MI5
>>>>>> just to work in studios.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sounds like someone was having you on. MI5 probably had more important
>> things
>>>>
>>>>> to do than vet some AV grunt at the BBC.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's where you are wrong. It is well established that engineering
>>>> recruits[1] as well as production staff, were vetted by MI5 at that
>>>
>>> Well established where?
>>
>> <https://www.bbc.com/historyofthebbc/anniversaries/august/mi5-vetting>
>
> An old Brigadier topping up his army pension checking some staff CVs is not the
> same as MI5 vetting all production floor staff.

He was just the liaison guy.

>
>>> So? I've signed it too yet there was no sign of spooks anywhere. Its a
>>> signature on a page that only matters after the event so they can bang you
>>> up if you've been caught flogging stuff to foreign powers.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Wonder how much I'd get for a script of Are You Being Served from the
>> Russians.
>
> Was one of the characters based on you?
>

The old guy still pulling the girls at 93.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 09:26:39 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Tue, 27 Sep 2022 08:26 UTC

In message <tgsgov$gp3$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:33:51 on Mon, 26 Sep
2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 07:09:19 +0100
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>In message <tgq9u1$3eesb$2@dont-email.me>, at 20:24:49 on Sun, 25 Sep
>>2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>For many years I had annual clearance to enter Downing Street (indoors
>>>as well as out) and The Houses of Parliament, initially through my
>>>employer (TVS) and when I went freelance, the BBC, who had me on their
>>>roster to be available for elections and the State Opening of
>>>Parliament. And yes, I gather I had a fairly thorough vetting. Mind you
>>>when I originally joined the BBC I had, allegedly, been vetted by MI5
>>>just to work in studios.
>>
>>There's various levels of vetting, all the way up to the one where they
>>allegedly go talk to your schoolteachers and interview you face to face
>>for a couple of hours. Some vetting is linked primarily to establishing
>>your identity beyond reasonable doubt, and then using that to check
>>criminal records and so on.
>
>The DBS check takes care of basic CRB stuff.

DBS isn't the sort of vetting involved here.

>>When I went to a G8 fringe meeting in number ten, it was surprisingly
>>informal, in the sense of being waved through the gate at the end of the
>>street and indoors, without having to provide any physical credentials
>>or have gone through any 'application process'. Was this because they
>>brief the security people on who is expected each day, which doesn't
>>seem to me to scale very well.
>
>I hate to break the news to you but its probably because you were a nobody
>going to an irrelevant meeting where there was nobody important who knew
>anything important.

Oh dear! Even if any of that were true, they don't let just anybody
wander in off the street and upstairs to a meeting room.
--
Roland Perry

Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)

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From: rol...@perry.co.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 09:29:03 +0100
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Tue, 27 Sep 2022 08:29 UTC

In message <tgshpo$3p6t9$2@dont-email.me>, at 16:51:20 on Mon, 26 Sep
2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 26/09/2022 16:28, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 20:24:49 +0100
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 20/09/2022 15:26, Recliner wrote:
>>>> Of course there's one group of outsiders who regularly visit and spend time
>>>> in Downing Street: journalists and TV production crews. I wonder how much
>>>> vetting they need to gain access? Presumably they must work for an
>>>> accredited publisher/TV company?
>>>>
>>>
>>> For many years I had annual clearance to enter Downing Street (indoors
>>> as well as out) and The Houses of Parliament, initially through my
>>> employer (TVS) and when I went freelance, the BBC, who had me on their
>>> roster to be available for elections and the State Opening of
>>> Parliament. And yes, I gather I had a fairly thorough vetting. Mind you
>>> when I originally joined the BBC I had, allegedly, been vetted by MI5
>>> just to work in studios.
>> Sounds like someone was having you on. MI5 probably had more
>>important things
>> to do than vet some AV grunt at the BBC.
>>
>
>That's where you are wrong. It is well established that engineering
>recruits[1] as well as production staff, were vetted by MI5 at that
>time. I even had to sign the Official Secrets Act.

The original security-theatre. Did they get you to sign the Theft Act
too, to deter any sticky fingers?

I don't ever recall signing the Road Traffic Act, so can I ignore red
traffic lights?

>[1] Camera and sound crew always came under engineering at the BBC.
>

--
Roland Perry

Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Tue, 27 Sep 2022 09:29 UTC

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 19:01:22 +0100
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 26/09/2022 17:15, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> An old Brigadier topping up his army pension checking some staff CVs is not
>the
>> same as MI5 vetting all production floor staff.
>
>He was just the liaison guy.

That web page gave the distinct impression he made the decisions.

Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)

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Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 09:30:44 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Tue, 27 Sep 2022 09:30 UTC

On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 09:26:39 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <tgsgov$gp3$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:33:51 on Mon, 26 Sep
>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 07:09:19 +0100
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>In message <tgq9u1$3eesb$2@dont-email.me>, at 20:24:49 on Sun, 25 Sep
>>>2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>For many years I had annual clearance to enter Downing Street (indoors
>>>>as well as out) and The Houses of Parliament, initially through my
>>>>employer (TVS) and when I went freelance, the BBC, who had me on their
>>>>roster to be available for elections and the State Opening of
>>>>Parliament. And yes, I gather I had a fairly thorough vetting. Mind you
>>>>when I originally joined the BBC I had, allegedly, been vetted by MI5
>>>>just to work in studios.
>>>
>>>There's various levels of vetting, all the way up to the one where they
>>>allegedly go talk to your schoolteachers and interview you face to face
>>>for a couple of hours. Some vetting is linked primarily to establishing
>>>your identity beyond reasonable doubt, and then using that to check
>>>criminal records and so on.
>>
>>The DBS check takes care of basic CRB stuff.
>
>DBS isn't the sort of vetting involved here.

DBS is the first stage of further security checks. If you did 2 years for
GBH they're not going to bother checking you out any further. I speak as
someone who's been security vetted.

>>I hate to break the news to you but its probably because you were a nobody
>>going to an irrelevant meeting where there was nobody important who knew
>>anything important.
>
>Oh dear! Even if any of that were true, they don't let just anybody
>wander in off the street and upstairs to a meeting room.

I imagine they required a party invite.

Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 10:35:13 +0100
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 by: Graeme Wall - Tue, 27 Sep 2022 09:35 UTC

On 27/09/2022 09:29, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <tgshpo$3p6t9$2@dont-email.me>, at 16:51:20 on Mon, 26 Sep
> 2022, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 26/09/2022 16:28, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 20:24:49 +0100
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 20/09/2022 15:26, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> Of course there's one group of outsiders who regularly visit and
>>>>> spend time
>>>>> in Downing Street: journalists and TV production crews.  I wonder
>>>>> how much
>>>>> vetting they need to gain access?  Presumably they must work for an
>>>>> accredited publisher/TV company?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For many years I had annual clearance to enter Downing Street (indoors
>>>> as well as out) and The Houses of Parliament, initially through my
>>>> employer (TVS) and when I went freelance, the BBC, who had me on their
>>>> roster to be available for elections and the State Opening of
>>>> Parliament. And yes, I gather I had a fairly thorough vetting. Mind you
>>>> when I originally joined the BBC I had, allegedly, been vetted by MI5
>>>> just to work in studios.
>>>  Sounds like someone was having you on. MI5 probably had more
>>> important things
>>> to do than vet some AV grunt at the BBC.
>>>
>>
>> That's where you are wrong. It is well established that engineering
>> recruits[1] as well as production staff, were vetted by MI5 at that
>> time. I even had to sign the Official Secrets Act.
>
> The original security-theatre. Did they get you to sign the Theft Act
> too, to deter any sticky fingers?
>
> I don't ever recall signing the Road Traffic Act, so can I ignore red
> traffic lights?
>

You do manage to talk absolute rubbish when you apparently don't know
what you are talking about.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Barriers across Whitehall (road)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 10:35:46 +0100
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 by: Graeme Wall - Tue, 27 Sep 2022 09:35 UTC

On 27/09/2022 10:29, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 19:01:22 +0100
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 26/09/2022 17:15, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> An old Brigadier topping up his army pension checking some staff CVs is not
>> the
>>> same as MI5 vetting all production floor staff.
>>
>> He was just the liaison guy.
>
> That web page gave the distinct impression he made the decisions.
>
>

He referred new staff to MI5 for the actual vetting.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.


aus+uk / uk.transport.london / Barriers across Whitehall (road)

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