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Sweater, n.: A garment worn by a child when its mother feels chilly.

BBC bye bye

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From: me...@odtaa.com.invalid (Michael Phillips)
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Date: Thu, 23 Feb 23 15:48:17 UTC

by: Michael Phillips - Thu, 23 Feb 2023 15:48 UTC

In mid-2003 the BBC will stop Shoutcast transmission of its radio
streams and switch to HLS/DASH. None of my internet radios (Yamaha,
Denon, Tangent) are compatible with these protocols and, as they’re all
fairly old, I doubt that the manufacturers will provide a firmware
update. So I’m thinking that I’ll have to resort to Airplay from this
iMac. Fortunately the Denon and Yamaha both have Airplay.
Am I correct in thinking that HLS is the same as Apple’s AAC and there
should therefore be no problem?

--
mhphillips at gmail dot com

Re: BBC bye bye

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From: ian...@eruvia.org (Ian McCall)
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Subject: Re: BBC bye bye
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2023 17:03:02 +0000
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by: Ian McCall - Thu, 23 Feb 2023 17:03 UTC

On 23 Feb 2023, Michael Phillips wrote
(in article<usGfpiklroEmSrYtUusmPvXvAxsYOllh@news.usenet.farm>):

> Am I correct in thinking that HLS is the same as Apple’s AAC and there
> should therefore be no problem?

Not sure about the HLC vs AAC part, but if you’re Airplaying’ing then all
the format conversion will be taken care of for you. Won’t be a problem.

Cheers,
Ian

Re: BBC bye bye

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From: captain....@gmail.com (Mark)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: BBC bye bye
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2023 22:16:13 +0000
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by: Mark - Thu, 23 Feb 2023 22:16 UTC

On 2023-02-23 17:03:02 +0000, Ian McCall said:

> On 23 Feb 2023, Michael Phillips wrote
> (in article<usGfpiklroEmSrYtUusmPvXvAxsYOllh@news.usenet.farm>):
>
>> Am I correct in thinking that HLS is the same as Apple’s AAC and there
>> should therefore be no problem?
>
> Not sure about the HLC vs AAC part, but if you’re Airplaying’ing then all
> the format conversion will be taken care of for you. Won’t be a problem.
>
> Cheers,
> Ian

Was this why TuneIn lost BBC streams a couple(?) of years ago? I'm
kinda sad at the news. I use Reciever on mobile, pretty much just for
SomaFM and 6Music. I caught an advisory statement last month saying
they would stop carrying BBC streams this summer (although I've only
heard that once). They both have their own apps, but still...
--
Cheers ... Mark

Re: BBC bye bye

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Subject: Re: BBC bye bye
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 23 08:34:38 UTC
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by: Michael Phillips - Fri, 24 Feb 2023 08:34 UTC

On 23 Feb 2023 at 17:03:02 GMT, "Ian McCall" <ian@eruvia.org> wrote:

What I'm wondering is can Apple Music (Catalina) decode the HLS stream?

--
mhphillips at gmail dot com

Re: BBC bye bye

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by: Michael Phillips - Fri, 24 Feb 2023 08:48 UTC

On 23 Feb 2023 at 22:16:13 GMT, "Mark" <captain.blackl@gmail.com> wrote:

> Was this why TuneIn lost BBC streams a couple(?) of years ago?

That was UK only. This time it's worldwide. The barker message,
broadcast every six hours since last November, says:
“We are making changes to the way BBC live streams are distributed via
3rdparty services and platforms, and the BBC stream you are currently
listening to will stop working by mid-2023. If you are using an internet
radio or smart speaker and hearing this message, please contact the
manufacturer. If you’re listening on web or mobile, this service is
available to stream on BBC Sounds”

The BBC Sounds app is not available for MacOS.

--
mhphillips at gmail dot com

Re: BBC bye bye

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From: alanrich...@gmail.com.invalid (Alan B)
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Subject: Re: BBC bye bye
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by: Alan B - Fri, 24 Feb 2023 09:00 UTC

Michael Phillips <me@odtaa.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 23 Feb 2023 at 22:16:13 GMT, "Mark" <captain.blackl@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Was this why TuneIn lost BBC streams a couple(?) of years ago?
>
> That was UK only. This time it's worldwide. The barker message,
> broadcast every six hours since last November, says:
> “We are making changes to the way BBC live streams are distributed via
> 3rdparty services and platforms, and the BBC stream you are currently
> listening to will stop working by mid-2023. If you are using an internet
> radio or smart speaker and hearing this message, please contact the
> manufacturer. If you’re listening on web or mobile, this service is
> available to stream on BBC Sounds”
>
> The BBC Sounds app is not available for MacOS.

Looks like I need to check the f/w version on my Roberts 93i …….

<https://www.robertsradio.com/en-gb/bbc-shoutcast-service>

--
Cheers, Alan

Re: BBC bye bye

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Subject: Re: BBC bye bye
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by: Alan B - Fri, 24 Feb 2023 11:33 UTC

Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> Michael Phillips <me@odtaa.com.invalid> wrote:
>> On 23 Feb 2023 at 22:16:13 GMT, "Mark" <captain.blackl@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Was this why TuneIn lost BBC streams a couple(?) of years ago?
>>
>> That was UK only. This time it's worldwide. The barker message,
>> broadcast every six hours since last November, says:
>> “We are making changes to the way BBC live streams are distributed via
>> 3rdparty services and platforms, and the BBC stream you are currently
>> listening to will stop working by mid-2023. If you are using an internet
>> radio or smart speaker and hearing this message, please contact the
>> manufacturer. If you’re listening on web or mobile, this service is
>> available to stream on BBC Sounds”
>>
>> The BBC Sounds app is not available for MacOS.
>
> Looks like I need to check the f/w version on my Roberts 93i …….
>
> <https://www.robertsradio.com/en-gb/bbc-shoutcast-service>

Just got back home and checked - v 1.29 so should be OK.

--
Cheers, Alan

Re: BBC bye bye

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Subject: Re: BBC bye bye
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by: Mark - Fri, 24 Feb 2023 12:09 UTC

On 2023-02-24 08:48:23 +0000, Michael Phillips said:

> On 23 Feb 2023 at 22:16:13 GMT, "Mark" <captain.blackl@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Was this why TuneIn lost BBC streams a couple(?) of years ago?
>
> That was UK only. This time it's worldwide. The barker message,
> broadcast every six hours since last November, says:
> “We are making changes to the way BBC live streams are distributed via
> 3rdparty services and platforms, and the BBC stream you are currently
> listening to will stop working by mid-2023. If you are using an internet
> radio or smart speaker and hearing this message, please contact the
> manufacturer. If you’re listening on web or mobile, this service is
> available to stream on BBC Sounds”
>
> The BBC Sounds app is not available for MacOS.

Ah, ok. I think the dev for Reciever is made by a German company. Oddly
I've not heard that message again - just that one time. I ususlly
listen via the website on the laptop.
--
Cheers ... Mark

Re: BBC bye bye

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by: Michael Phillips - Fri, 24 Feb 2023 14:37 UTC

On 24 Feb 2023 at 08:34:38 GMT, I wrote:

> What I'm wondering is can Apple Music (Catalina) decode the HLS stream?

I found the URLs for the BBC's HLS streams and loaded Radio 4 into Music
(File: Open
Stream URL...) but it doesn't play. It does play in Safari.

Here's the URL for BBC4 outside the UK:

<http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/nonuk/sbr_low/ak/bbc_radio_fourfm.m3u8>

I'm running Catalina. Anyone care to try if it plays in Music in Big Sur
or Ventura?

--
mhphillips at gmail dot com

Re: BBC bye bye

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From: ithink...@gmail.com (Chris)
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Subject: Re: BBC bye bye
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2023 14:45:24 -0000 (UTC)
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by: Chris - Fri, 24 Feb 2023 14:45 UTC

Does the ios sounds app work on Silicon Macs?

Re: BBC bye bye

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From: alanrich...@gmail.com.invalid (Alan B)
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Subject: Re: BBC bye bye
Date: 24 Feb 2023 14:49:50 GMT
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by: Alan B - Fri, 24 Feb 2023 14:49 UTC

On 24 Feb 2023 at 14:37:17 GMT, "Michael Phillips" <me@odtaa.com.invalid>
wrote:

> On 24 Feb 2023 at 08:34:38 GMT, I wrote:
>
>> What I'm wondering is can Apple Music (Catalina) decode the HLS stream?
>
> I found the URLs for the BBC's HLS streams and loaded Radio 4 into Music
> (File: Open
> Stream URL...) but it doesn't play. It does play in Safari.
>
> Here's the URL for BBC4 outside the UK:
>
> <http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/nonuk/sbr_low/ak/bbc_radio_fourfm.m3u8>
>
> I'm running Catalina. Anyone care to try if it plays in Music in Big Sur
> or Ventura?

Works OK on my Ventura system using Safari, here in the UK of course!

--
Cheers, Alan

Re: BBC bye bye

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Subject: Re: BBC bye bye
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Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2023 15:26:55 +0000
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by: David Kennedy - Fri, 24 Feb 2023 15:26 UTC

On 24/02/2023 14:49, Alan B wrote:
> On 24 Feb 2023 at 14:37:17 GMT, "Michael Phillips" <me@odtaa.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 24 Feb 2023 at 08:34:38 GMT, I wrote:
>>
>>> What I'm wondering is can Apple Music (Catalina) decode the HLS stream?
>>
>> I found the URLs for the BBC's HLS streams and loaded Radio 4 into Music
>> (File: Open
>> Stream URL...) but it doesn't play. It does play in Safari.
>>
>> Here's the URL for BBC4 outside the UK:
>>
>> <http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/nonuk/sbr_low/ak/bbc_radio_fourfm.m3u8>
>>
>> I'm running Catalina. Anyone care to try if it plays in Music in Big Sur
>> or Ventura?
>
> Works OK on my Ventura system using Safari, here in the UK of course!
>
Ditto, Ventura and M1 Macbook.

Wouldn't do it with Firefox though. Just went round in circles opening new
windows then asking what to do...

Re: BBC bye bye

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by: Michael Phillips - Fri, 24 Feb 2023 15:54 UTC

On 24 Feb 2023 at 14:49:50 GMT, "Alan B"
<alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

> On 24 Feb 2023 at 14:37:17 GMT, "Michael Phillips" <me@odtaa.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Here's the URL for BBC4 outside the UK:
>>
>> <http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/nonuk/sbr_low/ak/bbc_radio_fourfm.m3u8>
>>
>> I'm running Catalina. Anyone care to try if it plays in Music in Big Sur
>> or Ventura?
>
> Works OK on my Ventura system using Safari, here in the UK of course!

Thanks for trying, Alan and David. In Catalina it plays in Safari but
*not* in Music. Could you test it in Music? Ta.

--
mhphillips at gmail dot com

Re: BBC bye bye

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From: davidken...@gmail.com (David Kennedy)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: BBC bye bye
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2023 16:08:43 +0000
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by: David Kennedy - Fri, 24 Feb 2023 16:08 UTC

On 24/02/2023 15:54, Michael Phillips wrote:
> On 24 Feb 2023 at 14:49:50 GMT, "Alan B"
> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 24 Feb 2023 at 14:37:17 GMT, "Michael Phillips" <me@odtaa.com.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Here's the URL for BBC4 outside the UK:
>>>
>>> <http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/nonuk/sbr_low/ak/bbc_radio_fourfm.m3u8>
>>>
>>> I'm running Catalina. Anyone care to try if it plays in Music in Big Sur
>>> or Ventura?
>>
>> Works OK on my Ventura system using Safari, here in the UK of course!
>
> Thanks for trying, Alan and David. In Catalina it plays in Safari but
> *not* in Music. Could you test it in Music? Ta.
>
Not in Music here.

Re: BBC bye bye

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From: davidken...@gmail.com (David Kennedy)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: BBC bye bye
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2023 16:09:48 +0000
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by: David Kennedy - Fri, 24 Feb 2023 16:09 UTC

On 24/02/2023 16:08, David Kennedy wrote:
> On 24/02/2023 15:54, Michael Phillips wrote:
>> On 24 Feb 2023 at 14:49:50 GMT, "Alan B"
>> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 24 Feb 2023 at 14:37:17 GMT, "Michael Phillips" <me@odtaa.com.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here's the URL for BBC4 outside the UK:
>>>>
>>>> <http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/nonuk/sbr_low/ak/bbc_radio_fourfm.m3u8>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm running Catalina. Anyone care to try if it plays in Music in Big Sur
>>>> or Ventura?
>>>
>>> Works OK on my Ventura system using Safari, here in the UK of course!
>>
>> Thanks for trying, Alan and David. In Catalina it plays in Safari but
>> *not* in Music. Could you test it in Music? Ta.
>>
> Not in Music here.

It was a sad day when iTunes vanished...

And, I always preferred SoundJam anyway!

Re: BBC bye bye

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Subject: Re: BBC bye bye
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2023 11:23:14 -0500
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by: nospam - Fri, 24 Feb 2023 16:23 UTC

Re: BBC bye bye

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From: alanrich...@gmail.com.invalid (Alan B)
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Subject: Re: BBC bye bye
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2023 08:02:38 -0000 (UTC)
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by: Alan B - Sat, 25 Feb 2023 08:02 UTC

David Kennedy <davidkennedygm@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 24/02/2023 14:49, Alan B wrote:
>> On 24 Feb 2023 at 14:37:17 GMT, "Michael Phillips" <me@odtaa.com.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 24 Feb 2023 at 08:34:38 GMT, I wrote:
>>>
>>>> What I'm wondering is can Apple Music (Catalina) decode the HLS stream?
>>>
>>> I found the URLs for the BBC's HLS streams and loaded Radio 4 into Music
>>> (File: Open
>>> Stream URL...) but it doesn't play. It does play in Safari.
>>>
>>> Here's the URL for BBC4 outside the UK:
>>>
>>> <http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/nonuk/sbr_low/ak/bbc_radio_fourfm.m3u8>
>>>
>>> I'm running Catalina. Anyone care to try if it plays in Music in Big Sur
>>> or Ventura?
>>
>> Works OK on my Ventura system using Safari, here in the UK of course!
>>
> Ditto, Ventura and M1 Macbook.
>
> Wouldn't do it with Firefox though. Just went round in circles opening new
> windows then asking what to do...

<https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/native-mpeg-dash-hls-playback/>

Haven’t tried it as I don’t use FF much these days.

--
Cheers, Alan

Re: BBC bye bye

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From: captain....@gmail.com (Mark)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: BBC bye bye
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2023 11:26:15 +0000
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by: Mark - Sat, 25 Feb 2023 11:26 UTC

On 2023-02-24 16:09:48 +0000, David Kennedy said:

> On 24/02/2023 16:08, David Kennedy wrote:
>> On 24/02/2023 15:54, Michael Phillips wrote:
>>> On 24 Feb 2023 at 14:49:50 GMT, "Alan B"
>>> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 24 Feb 2023 at 14:37:17 GMT, "Michael Phillips" <me@odtaa.com.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Here's the URL for BBC4 outside the UK:
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/nonuk/sbr_low/ak/bbc_radio_fourfm.m3u8>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm running Catalina. Anyone care to try if it plays in Music in Big Sur
>>>>> or Ventura?
>>>>
>>>> Works OK on my Ventura system using Safari, here in the UK of course!
>>>
>>> Thanks for trying, Alan and David. In Catalina it plays in Safari but
>>> *not* in Music. Could you test it in Music? Ta.
>>>
>> Not in Music here.
>
> It was a sad day when iTunes vanished...
>
> And, I always preferred SoundJam anyway!

You can run iTunes on Ventura with Retroactive apparently...
<https://github.com/cormiertyshawn895/Retroactive>
--
Cheers ... Mark

Re: BBC bye bye

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From: bef...@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Froehlich)
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Subject: Re: BBC bye bye
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by: Bernd Froehlich - Sat, 25 Feb 2023 15:51 UTC

On 24. Feb 2023 at 16:54:14 CET, "Michael Phillips" <me@odtaa.com.invalid>
wrote:

>
> Thanks for trying, Alan and David. In Catalina it plays in Safari but
> *not* in Music. Could you test it in Music? Ta.

For internetradio I´m using "Broadcasts" since iTunes is no more.

http://as-hls-ww-live.akamaized.net/pool_904/live/ww/bbc_radio_fourfm/bbc_radio_fourfm.isml/bbc_radio_fourfm-audio%3d96000.norewind.m3u8

Works.

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From: ian...@eruvia.org (Ian McCall)
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Subject: Re: BBC bye bye
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by: Ian McCall - Sat, 25 Feb 2023 16:10 UTC

On 24 Feb 2023, Michael Phillips wrote
(in article<KjTeXRraITWHUqThNOlFAFKVGJjAqTUx@news.usenet.farm>):

> The BBC Sounds app is not available for MacOS.

....and not on HomePods either. Really irritating, this obsession with BBC
Sounds. They’re actually less open than the proprietary stations.

Cheers,
Ian

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Subject: Re: BBC bye bye
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by: Michael Phillips - Sat, 25 Feb 2023 16:20 UTC

On 25 Feb 2023 at 15:51:23 GMT, "Bernd Froehlich" <befr@eaglesoft.de>
wrote:

> <div id="editor" contenteditable="false">For internetradio I´m using
> "Broadcasts" since iTunes is no more.
>
> http://as-hls-ww-live.akamaized.net/pool_904/live/ww/bbc_radio_fourfm/bbc_radio_fourfm.isml/bbc_radio_fourfm-audio%3d96000.norewind.m3u8
>
> Works.

Requires MacOS 12. I'll keep it in mind though for when I venture out of
Catalina.

--
mhphillips at gmail dot com

Re: BBC bye bye

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Subject: Re: BBC bye bye
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by: Chris Ridd - Sat, 25 Feb 2023 20:49 UTC

On 25/02/2023 16:10, Ian McCall wrote:
> On 24 Feb 2023, Michael Phillips wrote
> (in article<KjTeXRraITWHUqThNOlFAFKVGJjAqTUx@news.usenet.farm>):
>
>> The BBC Sounds app is not available for MacOS.
>
> ...and not on HomePods either. Really irritating, this obsession with BBC
> Sounds. They’re actually less open than the proprietary stations.

I hate the way they're restricting their podcasts now too.

--
Chris

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by: RJH - Sun, 26 Feb 2023 05:10 UTC

On 24 Feb 2023 at 08:48:23 GMT, Michael Phillips wrote:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds no good?
--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

Re: BBC bye bye

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by: dgb - Sun, 26 Feb 2023 08:45 UTC

On 26/02/2023 05:10, RJH wrote:
> On 24 Feb 2023 at 08:48:23 GMT, Michael Phillips wrote:
>
>> On 23 Feb 2023 at 22:16:13 GMT, "Mark" <captain.blackl@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Was this why TuneIn lost BBC streams a couple(?) of years ago?
>>
>> That was UK only. This time it's worldwide. The barker message,
>> broadcast every six hours since last November, says:
>> “We are making changes to the way BBC live streams are distributed via
>> 3rdparty services and platforms, and the BBC stream you are currently
>> listening to will stop working by mid-2023. If you are using an internet
>> radio or smart speaker and hearing this message, please contact the
>> manufacturer. If you’re listening on web or mobile, this service is
>> available to stream on BBC Sounds”
>>
>> The BBC Sounds app is not available for MacOS.
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds no good?

I've just been listening here without a problem:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_two

However, I have no BBC 'Apps' available on macOS Ventura 13.2.1

Re: BBC bye bye

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by: David Kennedy - Sun, 26 Feb 2023 08:59 UTC

On 25/02/2023 11:26, Mark wrote:
> On 2023-02-24 16:09:48 +0000, David Kennedy said:
>
>> On 24/02/2023 16:08, David Kennedy wrote:
>>> On 24/02/2023 15:54, Michael Phillips wrote:
>>>> On 24 Feb 2023 at 14:49:50 GMT, "Alan B"
>>>> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 24 Feb 2023 at 14:37:17 GMT, "Michael Phillips" <me@odtaa.com.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's the URL for BBC4 outside the UK:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/nonuk/sbr_low/ak/bbc_radio_fourfm.m3u8>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm running Catalina. Anyone care to try if it plays in Music in Big Sur
>>>>>> or Ventura?
>>>>>
>>>>> Works OK on my Ventura system using Safari, here in the UK of course!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for trying, Alan and David. In Catalina it plays in Safari but
>>>> *not* in Music. Could you test it in Music? Ta.
>>>>
>>> Not in Music here.
>>
>> It was a sad day when iTunes vanished...
>>
>> And, I always preferred SoundJam anyway!
>
> You can run iTunes on Ventura with Retroactive apparently...
> <https://github.com/cormiertyshawn895/Retroactive>

Have you tried it?

Subject	Author
BBC bye bye	Michael Phillips
Re: BBC bye bye	Ian McCall
Re: BBC bye bye	Mark
Re: BBC bye bye	Michael Phillips
Re: BBC bye bye	Alan B
Re: BBC bye bye	Alan B
Re: BBC bye bye	Mark
Re: BBC bye bye	Chris
Re: BBC bye bye	Alan B
Re: BBC bye bye	Michael Phillips
Re: BBC bye bye	Ian McCall
Re: BBC bye bye	Chris Ridd
Re: BBC bye bye	RJH
Re: BBC bye bye	dgb
Re: BBC bye bye	Michael Phillips
Re: BBC bye bye	RJH
Re: BBC bye bye	Michael Phillips
Re: BBC bye bye	Michael Phillips
Re: BBC bye bye	Alan B
Re: BBC bye bye	David Kennedy
Re: BBC bye bye	Alan B
Re: BBC bye bye	Alan B
Re: BBC bye bye	Michael Phillips
Re: BBC bye bye	David Kennedy
Re: BBC bye bye	David Kennedy
Re: BBC bye bye	nospam
Re: BBC bye bye	Mark
Re: BBC bye bye	David Kennedy
Re: BBC bye bye	Mark
Re: BBC bye bye	David Kennedy
Re: BBC bye bye	Alan B
Re: BBC bye bye	Michael Phillips
Re: BBC bye bye	Alan B
Re: BBC bye bye	Michael Phillips
Re: BBC bye bye	Bernd Froehlich
Re: BBC bye bye	Michael Phillips
Re: BBC bye bye	Calum
Re: BBC bye bye	Michael Phillips
Re: BBC bye bye	RJH
Re: BBC bye bye	dgb
Re: BBC bye bye	RJH
Re: BBC bye bye	David Brooks
Re: BBC bye bye	Michael Phillips
Re: BBC bye bye	Mark
Re: BBC bye bye	Michael Phillips
Re: BBC bye bye	Chris Ridd
Re: BBC bye bye	Michael Phillips
Re: BBC bye bye	Graham J
Re: BBC bye bye	Michael Phillips
Re: BBC bye bye	Graeme Wall
Re: BBC bye bye	Mark
Re: BBC bye bye	nospam

Sweater, n.: A garment worn by a child when its mother feels chilly.

aus+uk / uk.comp.sys.mac / BBC bye bye