After more than 30 odd years with VM and their predecessors I’ve just
cancelled. CityFibre have just installed at my house and I get a far better
service at a much lower price. Lower latency, fixed ipv4 address, ipv6
range of addresses, twice the download speed, 20 times the upload speed,
all at 60% of the cost. I’ve been looking forwards to sacking them after
their recent series of prices rises. Over the past few years they’ve more
or less doubled the cost.

On Fri 17/11/2023 18:44, Tweed wrote:
> After more than 30 odd years with VM and their predecessors I’ve just
> cancelled. CityFibre have just installed at my house and I get a far better
> service at a much lower price. Lower latency, fixed ipv4 address, ipv6
> range of addresses, twice the download speed, 20 times the upload speed,
> all at 60% of the cost. I’ve been looking forwards to sacking them after
> their recent series of prices rises. Over the past few years they’ve more
> or less doubled the cost.
>
>

You got that one wrong. NTL didn't start in the Interweb game until 1990
- I should know as I was one of the first 300 beta testers my employer
having sold my dept to NTL as of 1st July 1999. What is more that was
dial-up - 0845 455 0520 as I remember. Telewest were much later.

I have been with them ever since through thick and thin and have only
had four outages in all that time. But like you the time is coming that
I have to consider moving as CityFibre piped our area in the first year
of lockdown - it was actually TT that set it off but CF bought the fibre
business off them. Add to that I am paying £42/m (inc discount!) for
50/5 (Interweb and a phone we never use) and can get 150 both ways for
about £27 on fibre, VM have written the annual uplift into the contract
so you can no longer use it as an excuse to leave without penalty, and
for that uplift they use the February RPI+3.9% - note RPI, not the lower
CPI that everyone else uses. This year my charge increased by 16.7%
where everyone else was about 14%! My contract expires 29th Dec - I hate
to think what it will cost me after that. Oh, and you have to keep a
limited service going for 3 months after termination to catch all of
your emails - and its chargeable!

The downside is that none of the SPs on CF provide e-mail services so
you end up having to change your email addresses to such as
Gmail/Yahoo/Hotmail or something like Mythic Beasts which is chargeable
and needs some in-depth understanding how to set it up. If you use VM
for phone as well your range of fibre providers drops to just a couple -
like Zen or A&A - as none of the others have such. Yes I know you can
get a VoIP account but it is just another thing to go wrong and (more to
the point) to have to hand drive demarcation points when things go wrong.

I wouldn't mind staying with VM, after all it is very reliable, but
their charges are just getting silly.

Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Fri 17/11/2023 18:44, Tweed wrote:
>> After more than 30 odd years with VM and their predecessors I’ve just
>> cancelled. CityFibre have just installed at my house and I get a far better
>> service at a much lower price. Lower latency, fixed ipv4 address, ipv6
>> range of addresses, twice the download speed, 20 times the upload speed,
>> all at 60% of the cost. I’ve been looking forwards to sacking them after
>> their recent series of prices rises. Over the past few years they’ve more
>> or less doubled the cost.
>>
>>
>
> You got that one wrong. NTL didn't start in the Interweb game until 1990
> - I should know as I was one of the first 300 beta testers my employer
> having sold my dept to NTL as of 1st July 1999. What is more that was
> dial-up - 0845 455 0520 as I remember. Telewest were much later.
>
> I have been with them ever since through thick and thin and have only
> had four outages in all that time. But like you the time is coming that
> I have to consider moving as CityFibre piped our area in the first year
> of lockdown - it was actually TT that set it off but CF bought the fibre
> business off them. Add to that I am paying £42/m (inc discount!) for
> 50/5 (Interweb and a phone we never use) and can get 150 both ways for
> about £27 on fibre, VM have written the annual uplift into the contract
> so you can no longer use it as an excuse to leave without penalty, and
> for that uplift they use the February RPI+3.9% - note RPI, not the lower
> CPI that everyone else uses. This year my charge increased by 16.7%
> where everyone else was about 14%! My contract expires 29th Dec - I hate
> to think what it will cost me after that. Oh, and you have to keep a
> limited service going for 3 months after termination to catch all of
> your emails - and its chargeable!
>
> The downside is that none of the SPs on CF provide e-mail services so
> you end up having to change your email addresses to such as
> Gmail/Yahoo/Hotmail or something like Mythic Beasts which is chargeable
> and needs some in-depth understanding how to set it up. If you use VM
> for phone as well your range of fibre providers drops to just a couple -
> like Zen or A&A - as none of the others have such. Yes I know you can
> get a VoIP account but it is just another thing to go wrong and (more to
> the point) to have to hand drive demarcation points when things go wrong.
>
> I wouldn't mind staying with VM, after all it is very reliable, but
> their charges are just getting silly.
>
>

I had one of NTL’s first dial up packages and then their 512kbit/sec cable
modems. Prior to that I was running a dial up modem running Trumpet Winsock
via a Diamond Cable phone line. So I’ve been with VM’s predecessors for
quite a while.

If you don’t wish to sort out your own email and/or landline there’s still
a number of ISPs who will offer everything, eg IDNet. I happen to be using
them via CF, but only for the broadband. Never used IDNet before getting
the CF connection, however I can’t speak too highly of them. Sensible
answers to customer service queries by return of email by people who know
what they are talking about. Routing/peering seems very good as well with
very low latency.

On Fri 17/11/2023 21:27, Tweed wrote:
> Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> On Fri 17/11/2023 18:44, Tweed wrote:
>>> After more than 30 odd years with VM and their predecessors I’ve just
>>> cancelled. CityFibre have just installed at my house and I get a far better
>>> service at a much lower price. Lower latency, fixed ipv4 address, ipv6
>>> range of addresses, twice the download speed, 20 times the upload speed,
>>> all at 60% of the cost. I’ve been looking forwards to sacking them after
>>> their recent series of prices rises. Over the past few years they’ve more
>>> or less doubled the cost.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You got that one wrong. NTL didn't start in the Interweb game until 1990
>> - I should know as I was one of the first 300 beta testers my employer
>> having sold my dept to NTL as of 1st July 1999. What is more that was
>> dial-up - 0845 455 0520 as I remember. Telewest were much later.
>>
>> I have been with them ever since through thick and thin and have only
>> had four outages in all that time. But like you the time is coming that
>> I have to consider moving as CityFibre piped our area in the first year
>> of lockdown - it was actually TT that set it off but CF bought the fibre
>> business off them. Add to that I am paying £42/m (inc discount!) for
>> 50/5 (Interweb and a phone we never use) and can get 150 both ways for
>> about £27 on fibre, VM have written the annual uplift into the contract
>> so you can no longer use it as an excuse to leave without penalty, and
>> for that uplift they use the February RPI+3.9% - note RPI, not the lower
>> CPI that everyone else uses. This year my charge increased by 16.7%
>> where everyone else was about 14%! My contract expires 29th Dec - I hate
>> to think what it will cost me after that. Oh, and you have to keep a
>> limited service going for 3 months after termination to catch all of
>> your emails - and its chargeable!
>>
>> The downside is that none of the SPs on CF provide e-mail services so
>> you end up having to change your email addresses to such as
>> Gmail/Yahoo/Hotmail or something like Mythic Beasts which is chargeable
>> and needs some in-depth understanding how to set it up. If you use VM
>> for phone as well your range of fibre providers drops to just a couple -
>> like Zen or A&A - as none of the others have such. Yes I know you can
>> get a VoIP account but it is just another thing to go wrong and (more to
>> the point) to have to hand drive demarcation points when things go wrong.
>>
>> I wouldn't mind staying with VM, after all it is very reliable, but
>> their charges are just getting silly.
>>
>>
>
> I had one of NTL’s first dial up packages and then their 512kbit/sec cable
> modems. Prior to that I was running a dial up modem running Trumpet Winsock
> via a Diamond Cable phone line. So I’ve been with VM’s predecessors for
> quite a while.
>
> If you don’t wish to sort out your own email and/or landline there’s still
> a number of ISPs who will offer everything, eg IDNet. I happen to be using
> them via CF, but only for the broadband. Never used IDNet before getting
> the CF connection, however I can’t speak too highly of them. Sensible
> answers to customer service queries by return of email by people who know
> what they are talking about. Routing/peering seems very good as well with
> very low latency.
>

Isn't IDNet part of Currys? I don't particularly like the fact that
their pricing is excluding VAT either!

Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Fri 17/11/2023 21:27, Tweed wrote:
>> Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri 17/11/2023 18:44, Tweed wrote:
>>>> After more than 30 odd years with VM and their predecessors I’ve just
>>>> cancelled. CityFibre have just installed at my house and I get a far better
>>>> service at a much lower price. Lower latency, fixed ipv4 address, ipv6
>>>> range of addresses, twice the download speed, 20 times the upload speed,
>>>> all at 60% of the cost. I’ve been looking forwards to sacking them after
>>>> their recent series of prices rises. Over the past few years they’ve more
>>>> or less doubled the cost.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> You got that one wrong. NTL didn't start in the Interweb game until 1990
>>> - I should know as I was one of the first 300 beta testers my employer
>>> having sold my dept to NTL as of 1st July 1999. What is more that was
>>> dial-up - 0845 455 0520 as I remember. Telewest were much later.
>>>
>>> I have been with them ever since through thick and thin and have only
>>> had four outages in all that time. But like you the time is coming that
>>> I have to consider moving as CityFibre piped our area in the first year
>>> of lockdown - it was actually TT that set it off but CF bought the fibre
>>> business off them. Add to that I am paying £42/m (inc discount!) for
>>> 50/5 (Interweb and a phone we never use) and can get 150 both ways for
>>> about £27 on fibre, VM have written the annual uplift into the contract
>>> so you can no longer use it as an excuse to leave without penalty, and
>>> for that uplift they use the February RPI+3.9% - note RPI, not the lower
>>> CPI that everyone else uses. This year my charge increased by 16.7%
>>> where everyone else was about 14%! My contract expires 29th Dec - I hate
>>> to think what it will cost me after that. Oh, and you have to keep a
>>> limited service going for 3 months after termination to catch all of
>>> your emails - and its chargeable!
>>>
>>> The downside is that none of the SPs on CF provide e-mail services so
>>> you end up having to change your email addresses to such as
>>> Gmail/Yahoo/Hotmail or something like Mythic Beasts which is chargeable
>>> and needs some in-depth understanding how to set it up. If you use VM
>>> for phone as well your range of fibre providers drops to just a couple -
>>> like Zen or A&A - as none of the others have such. Yes I know you can
>>> get a VoIP account but it is just another thing to go wrong and (more to
>>> the point) to have to hand drive demarcation points when things go wrong.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't mind staying with VM, after all it is very reliable, but
>>> their charges are just getting silly.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I had one of NTL’s first dial up packages and then their 512kbit/sec cable
>> modems. Prior to that I was running a dial up modem running Trumpet Winsock
>> via a Diamond Cable phone line. So I’ve been with VM’s predecessors for
>> quite a while.
>>
>> If you don’t wish to sort out your own email and/or landline there’s still
>> a number of ISPs who will offer everything, eg IDNet. I happen to be using
>> them via CF, but only for the broadband. Never used IDNet before getting
>> the CF connection, however I can’t speak too highly of them. Sensible
>> answers to customer service queries by return of email by people who know
>> what they are talking about. Routing/peering seems very good as well with
>> very low latency.
>>
>
> Isn't IDNet part of Currys? I don't particularly like the fact that
> their pricing is excluding VAT either!
>
>

Nope, I think you are confusing them with IDMobile.

https://www.idnet.com/#:~:text=Founded%20by%20our%20current%20directors,connectivity%20technology%20has%20to%20offer.

“Founded by our current directors, brothers Simon and Tim Davies in 1996,
IDNet has always been an independent business focusing on the best of what
internet connectivity technology has to offer.”

Their pricing is shown with or without VAT. There’s a button to switch
between the two on the relevant web pages.

There aren’t many ISPs from the mid 90s still around in their original
form. Andrews and Arnold are the only other one I can think of. I’m also a
customer of theirs, and they are very good too. The only reason I didn’t
choose them for my CF connection is they only offer 150Mb and 1000Mb speed
tiers. The former is too slow for my needs and I don’t really have any
equipment that can sensibly exploit the latter. IDNet offers 500 Mbit at a
compromise price.

On 17/11/2023 20:50, Woody wrote:
>
> The downside is that none of the SPs on CF provide e-mail services so
> you end up having to change your email addresses to such as
> Gmail/Yahoo/Hotmail or something like Mythic Beasts which is chargeable
> and needs some in-depth understanding how to set it up.

I moved from VM to MB.

Coming out of one VM package to another VM package was eye watering.

As for MB, their CS is email based with very rapid response and fixit fast.

Set up is a bit complicated but for a small sum they did everything for
me based on my wish list.

I was slightly nervous about using a small ISP but their accounts show
good steady growth and they are expanding their hardware and staff.
[And they get good reviews].

Flop

On 17/11/2023 18:44, Tweed wrote:
> After more than 30 odd years with VM and their predecessors I’ve just
> cancelled. CityFibre have just installed at my house and I get a far better
> service at a much lower price. Lower latency, fixed ipv4 address, ipv6
> range of addresses, twice the download speed, 20 times the upload speed,
> all at 60% of the cost. I’ve been looking forwards to sacking them after
> their recent series of prices rises. Over the past few years they’ve more
> or less doubled the cost.

What company have you chosen for your Internet service?

I also live in a road recently wired up by City ibre and they keep emailing me to encourage me to switch to them, but all of the service providers that they offer are either companies that I've never heard of like Octaplus, Giganet, Yayzi, No One, Idnet or else ones that I have heard of but which have a truly awful reputation like Vodaphone. Or Andrews and Arnold who have a good reputation but their prices start at £37/month. I couldn't find a single one with a reasonable rating for customer service and a reasonable price. Which is why, for the moment I'm staying with Plusnet.

--
Clive Page

On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 09:05:55 +0000, Tweed wrote:

> There aren’t many ISPs from the mid 90s still around in their original
> form. Andrews and Arnold are the only other one I can think of. I’m also
> a customer of theirs, and they are very good too. The only reason I
> didn’t choose them for my CF connection is they only offer 150Mb and
> 1000Mb speed tiers.

Interesting. I have an Openreach connection with AAISP, and I had a choice
of a number of speeds. I chose 300 Mb/s, as it was the same price as the
previous FTTC.

AAISP may be more expensive, but price rises are rare. More often, they
increase your download quota. Mine currently sits at over 45 TB per month.

Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 09:05:55 +0000, Tweed wrote:
>
>> There aren’t many ISPs from the mid 90s still around in their original
>> form. Andrews and Arnold are the only other one I can think of. I’m also
>> a customer of theirs, and they are very good too. The only reason I
>> didn’t choose them for my CF connection is they only offer 150Mb and
>> 1000Mb speed tiers.
>
> Interesting. I have an Openreach connection with AAISP, and I had a choice
> of a number of speeds. I chose 300 Mb/s, as it was the same price as the
> previous FTTC.
>
> AAISP may be more expensive, but price rises are rare. More often, they
> increase your download quota. Mine currently sits at over 45 TB per month.
>

https://www.aa.net.uk/broadband/home1-cityfibre-services/

I did ask if there was going to be a 500ish service but the answer was no.
They seem to have taken their lead from CF’s wholesale pricing. They charge
a reduced rate for 150Mb and below, anything above 150Mbit is the same
cost. So far IDNet seem to be offering the same high quality of service as
A&A but at a lower cost (and no download caps)

Philip Hole <news@theholefamily.org> wrote:
> On 17/11/2023 20:50, Woody wrote:
>>
>> The downside is that none of the SPs on CF provide e-mail services so
>> you end up having to change your email addresses to such as
>> Gmail/Yahoo/Hotmail or something like Mythic Beasts which is chargeable
>> and needs some in-depth understanding how to set it up.
>
> I moved from VM to MB.
>
> Coming out of one VM package to another VM package was eye watering.
>
> As for MB, their CS is email based with very rapid response and fixit fast.
>
> Set up is a bit complicated but for a small sum they did everything for
> me based on my wish list.
>
> I was slightly nervous about using a small ISP but their accounts show
> good steady growth and they are expanding their hardware and staff.
> [And they get good reviews].
>
> Flop
>
>

Forgive me but who are MB?

On 18/11/2023 in message <krrj72FoumoU1@mid.individual.net> Clive Page
wrote:

>On 17/11/2023 18:44, Tweed wrote:
>>After more than 30 odd years with VM and their predecessors I’ve just
>>cancelled. CityFibre have just installed at my house and I get a far
>>better
>>service at a much lower price. Lower latency, fixed ipv4 address, ipv6
>>range of addresses, twice the download speed, 20 times the upload speed,
>>all at 60% of the cost. I’ve been looking forwards to sacking them after
>>their recent series of prices rises. Over the past few years they’ve
>>more
>>or less doubled the cost.
>
>What company have you chosen for your Internet service?
>
>I also live in a road recently wired up by City ibre and they keep
>emailing me to encourage me to switch to them, but all of the service
>providers that they offer are either companies that I've never heard of
>like Octaplus, Giganet, Yayzi, No One, Idnet or else ones that I have
>heard of but which have a truly awful reputation like Vodaphone. Or
>Andrews and Arnold who have a good reputation but their prices start at
>£37/month. I couldn't find a single one with a reasonable rating for
>customer service and a reasonable price. Which is why, for the moment
>I'm staying with Plusnet.

Interesting. Our whole village has been dug up over the last year so
Giganet could lay fibre. They started selling a few months ago and we are
already hearing stories of poor service, and no option for a 'phone
although that seems quite common now.

I am with Plusnet and hoping they might start re-selling Giganet.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
This joke was so funny when I heard it for the first time I fell of my
dinosaur.

Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
> On 17/11/2023 18:44, Tweed wrote:
>> After more than 30 odd years with VM and their predecessors I’ve just
>> cancelled. CityFibre have just installed at my house and I get a far better
>> service at a much lower price. Lower latency, fixed ipv4 address, ipv6
>> range of addresses, twice the download speed, 20 times the upload speed,
>> all at 60% of the cost. I’ve been looking forwards to sacking them after
>> their recent series of prices rises. Over the past few years they’ve more
>> or less doubled the cost.
>
> What company have you chosen for your Internet service?
>
> I also live in a road recently wired up by City ibre and they keep
> emailing me to encourage me to switch to them, but all of the service
> providers that they offer are either companies that I've never heard of
> like Octaplus, Giganet, Yayzi, No One, Idnet or else ones that I have
> heard of but which have a truly awful reputation like Vodaphone. Or
> Andrews and Arnold who have a good reputation but their prices start at
> £37/month. I couldn't find a single one with a reasonable rating for
> customer service and a reasonable price. Which is why, for the moment
> I'm staying with Plusnet.
>

I chose IDNet based on reading a lot of online reviews. So far it seems to
have been a good choice. Extremely good UK based customer support. I asked
them a few questions about the ip6 setup, not having much experience in
this area, and got sensible answers by return of email. We had a few ups
and downs with the initial CF install as the OR duct they wanted to use was
found to be blocked. So things got delayed by around 10 days whilst a hole
digging team was summonsed. Now it is up and running I can’t fault it.
Peering is very good with consequent low latency. No carrier grade NAT,
which is a risk with some of the newer players. I have a static ip4 address
and a block of ip6 addresses, which comes as standard. They’ve been around
since 1996. As they are based in Hitchin you could go and bang on their
door if push came to shove :)
£29 for 150Mbit, £39 for 500Mbit, £48 for 1000Mbit all symmetrical up and
down speeds.
Virgin Media thought I ought to be paying £58 for 250 down 25 up, or £53 if
I recontracted for 18 months. They got fired last night.

Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
> On 18/11/2023 in message <krrj72FoumoU1@mid.individual.net> Clive Page
> wrote:
>
>> On 17/11/2023 18:44, Tweed wrote:
>>> After more than 30 odd years with VM and their predecessors I’ve just
>>> cancelled. CityFibre have just installed at my house and I get a far
>>> better
>>> service at a much lower price. Lower latency, fixed ipv4 address, ipv6
>>> range of addresses, twice the download speed, 20 times the upload speed,
>>> all at 60% of the cost. I’ve been looking forwards to sacking them after
>>> their recent series of prices rises. Over the past few years they’ve
>>> more
>>> or less doubled the cost.
>>
>> What company have you chosen for your Internet service?
>>
>> I also live in a road recently wired up by City ibre and they keep
>> emailing me to encourage me to switch to them, but all of the service
>> providers that they offer are either companies that I've never heard of
>> like Octaplus, Giganet, Yayzi, No One, Idnet or else ones that I have
>> heard of but which have a truly awful reputation like Vodaphone. Or
>> Andrews and Arnold who have a good reputation but their prices start at
>> £37/month. I couldn't find a single one with a reasonable rating for
>> customer service and a reasonable price. Which is why, for the moment
>> I'm staying with Plusnet.
>
> Interesting. Our whole village has been dug up over the last year so
> Giganet could lay fibre. They started selling a few months ago and we are
> already hearing stories of poor service, and no option for a 'phone
> although that seems quite common now.
>
> I am with Plusnet and hoping they might start re-selling Giganet.
>

This is the trouble with a lot of the alternative fibre providers, most
want to be monopoly ISPs as well. CityFibre adopt a different model being
wholesale only, much like OpenReach. They support a range of ISPs.

On 18/11/2023 11:29, Tweed wrote:

Forgive me but who are MB?

> Mythic Beasts

see https://www.mythic-beasts.com/

Flop

Philip Hole <news@theholefamily.org> wrote:
> On 17/11/2023 20:50, Woody wrote:
>>
>> The downside is that none of the SPs on CF provide e-mail services so
>> you end up having to change your email addresses to such as
>> Gmail/Yahoo/Hotmail or something like Mythic Beasts which is chargeable
>> and needs some in-depth understanding how to set it up.
>
> I moved from VM to MB.
>
> Coming out of one VM package to another VM package was eye watering.
>
> As for MB, their CS is email based with very rapid response and fixit fast.
>
> Set up is a bit complicated but for a small sum they did everything for
> me based on my wish list.
>
> I was slightly nervous about using a small ISP but their accounts show
> good steady growth and they are expanding their hardware and staff.
> [And they get good reviews].
>
> Flop
>
>

Thanks. I’ve made a point of unbundling everything. Broadband, voip, pay
tv, mobile phone, email all are from different suppliers. Of course the
suppliers like to sell you bundles because it makes it harder to move.

On 18/11/2023 in message <uja91t$3a2fn$1@dont-email.me> Philip Hole wrote:

>On 18/11/2023 11:29, Tweed wrote:
>
>Forgive me but who are MB?
>
>
>>Mythic Beasts
>
>see https://www.mythic-beasts.com/
>
>Flop

Highly recommended, I am transferring my stuff to them from Heart Internet.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Are you confused about gender?
Try milking a bull, you'll learn real quick.

On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 11:29:44 +0000, Tweed wrote:

> Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 09:05:55 +0000, Tweed wrote:
>>
>>> There aren’t many ISPs from the mid 90s still around in their original
>>> form. Andrews and Arnold are the only other one I can think of. I’m
>>> also a customer of theirs, and they are very good too. The only reason
>>> I didn’t choose them for my CF connection is they only offer 150Mb and
>>> 1000Mb speed tiers.
>>
>> Interesting. I have an Openreach connection with AAISP, and I had a
>> choice of a number of speeds. I chose 300 Mb/s, as it was the same
>> price as the previous FTTC.
>>
>> AAISP may be more expensive, but price rises are rare. More often, they
>> increase your download quota. Mine currently sits at over 45 TB per
>> month.
>>
>>
> https://www.aa.net.uk/broadband/home1-cityfibre-services/
>
> I did ask if there was going to be a 500ish service but the answer was
> no.

I got mine in August last year, so perhaps something has changed.

Ah, I see. The CF option only offers two speeds; the OR one offers several
more. I went for OR.

> So far IDNet seem to be offering the same high quality of
> service as A&A but at a lower cost (and no download caps)

The download cap isn't a problem at 47TB/month! And I haven't had a price
rise in living memory, apart from 20p a month extra on VoIP numbers due to
increased termination costs.

Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 11:29:44 +0000, Tweed wrote:
>
>> Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 09:05:55 +0000, Tweed wrote:
>>>
>>>> There aren’t many ISPs from the mid 90s still around in their original
>>>> form. Andrews and Arnold are the only other one I can think of. I’m
>>>> also a customer of theirs, and they are very good too. The only reason
>>>> I didn’t choose them for my CF connection is they only offer 150Mb and
>>>> 1000Mb speed tiers.
>>>
>>> Interesting. I have an Openreach connection with AAISP, and I had a
>>> choice of a number of speeds. I chose 300 Mb/s, as it was the same
>>> price as the previous FTTC.
>>>
>>> AAISP may be more expensive, but price rises are rare. More often, they
>>> increase your download quota. Mine currently sits at over 45 TB per
>>> month.
>>>
>>>
>> https://www.aa.net.uk/broadband/home1-cityfibre-services/
>>
>> I did ask if there was going to be a 500ish service but the answer was
>> no.
>
> I got mine in August last year, so perhaps something has changed.
>
> Ah, I see. The CF option only offers two speeds; the OR one offers several
> more. I went for OR.
>
>> So far IDNet seem to be offering the same high quality of
>> service as A&A but at a lower cost (and no download caps)
>
> The download cap isn't a problem at 47TB/month! And I haven't had a price
> rise in living memory, apart from 20p a month extra on VoIP numbers due to
> increased termination costs.
>

Likewise, I’ve used A&A at another property for 16 years and have never
suffered a price rise. Their reassuringly expensive rates are becoming
reassuringly close to everyone else as time goes by. When VM wanted more
than A&A it was time to look elsewhere. Happily CityFibre turned up at the
right moment.

On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 13:25:01 -0000 (UTC)
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

> Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote:
> > On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 11:29:44 +0000, Tweed wrote:
> >
> >> Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote:
> >>> On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 09:05:55 +0000, Tweed wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> There aren’t many ISPs from the mid 90s still around in their
> >>>> original form. Andrews and Arnold are the only other one I can
> >>>> think of. I’m also a customer of theirs, and they are very good
> >>>> too. The only reason I didn’t choose them for my CF connection
> >>>> is they only offer 150Mb and 1000Mb speed tiers.
> >>>
> >>> Interesting. I have an Openreach connection with AAISP, and I had
> >>> a choice of a number of speeds. I chose 300 Mb/s, as it was the
> >>> same price as the previous FTTC.
> >>>
> >>> AAISP may be more expensive, but price rises are rare. More
> >>> often, they increase your download quota. Mine currently sits at
> >>> over 45 TB per month.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> https://www.aa.net.uk/broadband/home1-cityfibre-services/
> >>
> >> I did ask if there was going to be a 500ish service but the answer
> >> was no.
> >
> > I got mine in August last year, so perhaps something has changed.
> >
> > Ah, I see. The CF option only offers two speeds; the OR one offers
> > several more. I went for OR.
> >
> >> So far IDNet seem to be offering the same high quality of
> >> service as A&A but at a lower cost (and no download caps)
> >
> > The download cap isn't a problem at 47TB/month! And I haven't had a
> > price rise in living memory, apart from 20p a month extra on VoIP
> > numbers due to increased termination costs.
> >
>
> Likewise, I’ve used A&A at another property for 16 years and have
> never suffered a price rise. Their reassuringly expensive rates are
> becoming reassuringly close to everyone else as time goes by. When VM
> wanted more than A&A it was time to look elsewhere. Happily CityFibre
> turned up at the right moment.
>

My Zen rates (landline and ADSL) have never increased, since I started
with them in 2010, and they speak Lancashire English on the 'phone. On
the few occasions that I have had to ask for help, it has been quick and
accurate. My downloads have no monthly limit.
I have no reason to contemplate leaving an excellent supplier.

--
Davey.

On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 11:29:44 Tweed wrote:

>Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 09:05:55 +0000, Tweed wrote:
>>
>>> There aren’t many ISPs from the mid 90s still around in their original
>>> form. Andrews and Arnold are the only other one I can think of. I’m also
>>> a customer of theirs, and they are very good too. The only reason I
>>> didn’t choose them for my CF connection is they only offer 150Mb and
>>> 1000Mb speed tiers.
>>
>> Interesting. I have an Openreach connection with AAISP, and I had a choice
>> of a number of speeds. I chose 300 Mb/s, as it was the same price as the
>> previous FTTC.
>>
>> AAISP may be more expensive, but price rises are rare. More often, they
>> increase your download quota. Mine currently sits at over 45 TB per month.
>>
>
>https://www.aa.net.uk/broadband/home1-cityfibre-services/
>
>I did ask if there was going to be a 500ish service but the answer was no.
>They seem to have taken their lead from CF’s wholesale pricing. They charge
>a reduced rate for 150Mb and below, anything above 150Mbit is the same
>cost. So far IDNet seem to be offering the same high quality of service as
>A&A but at a lower cost (and no download caps)

I can vouch for IDNet, having been with them since 2010. I've never had
any outages with them, the help desk was always helpful and prompt, and
I upgraded with them to full fibre at the end of August without a hitch.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

On Sat 18/11/2023 13:34, Davey wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 13:25:01 -0000 (UTC)
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 11:29:44 +0000, Tweed wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 09:05:55 +0000, Tweed wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There aren’t many ISPs from the mid 90s still around in their
>>>>>> original form. Andrews and Arnold are the only other one I can
>>>>>> think of. I’m also a customer of theirs, and they are very good
>>>>>> too. The only reason I didn’t choose them for my CF connection
>>>>>> is they only offer 150Mb and 1000Mb speed tiers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting. I have an Openreach connection with AAISP, and I had
>>>>> a choice of a number of speeds. I chose 300 Mb/s, as it was the
>>>>> same price as the previous FTTC.
>>>>>
>>>>> AAISP may be more expensive, but price rises are rare. More
>>>>> often, they increase your download quota. Mine currently sits at
>>>>> over 45 TB per month.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> https://www.aa.net.uk/broadband/home1-cityfibre-services/
>>>>
>>>> I did ask if there was going to be a 500ish service but the answer
>>>> was no.
>>>
>>> I got mine in August last year, so perhaps something has changed.
>>>
>>> Ah, I see. The CF option only offers two speeds; the OR one offers
>>> several more. I went for OR.
>>>
>>>> So far IDNet seem to be offering the same high quality of
>>>> service as A&A but at a lower cost (and no download caps)
>>>
>>> The download cap isn't a problem at 47TB/month! And I haven't had a
>>> price rise in living memory, apart from 20p a month extra on VoIP
>>> numbers due to increased termination costs.
>>>
>>
>> Likewise, I’ve used A&A at another property for 16 years and have
>> never suffered a price rise. Their reassuringly expensive rates are
>> becoming reassuringly close to everyone else as time goes by. When VM
>> wanted more than A&A it was time to look elsewhere. Happily CityFibre
>> turned up at the right moment.
>>
>
> My Zen rates (landline and ADSL) have never increased, since I started
> with them in 2010, and they speak Lancashire English on the 'phone. On
> the few occasions that I have had to ask for help, it has been quick and
> accurate. My downloads have no monthly limit.
> I have no reason to contemplate leaving an excellent supplier.
>

Ah, but you are a long standing customer. They changed their MO a while
back. For new customers:-
They no longer keep the same prices as long as you stay with them;
They no longer provide an email service.

On Friday, 17 November 2023 at 20:50:48 UTC, Woody wrote:
> On Fri 17/11/2023 18:44, Tweed wrote:
> > After more than 30 odd years with VM and their predecessors I’ve just
> > cancelled. CityFibre have just installed at my house and I get a far better
> > service at a much lower price. Lower latency, fixed ipv4 address, ipv6
> > range of addresses, twice the download speed, 20 times the upload speed,
> > all at 60% of the cost. I’ve been looking forwards to sacking them after
> > their recent series of prices rises. Over the past few years they’ve more
> > or less doubled the cost.
> >
> >
> You got that one wrong. NTL didn't start in the Interweb game until 1990

NT Hell UK founded 31 years ago. One [and the OP] could get cable TV from them thirty years ago.

They were poor, and [as you say] probably started as an ISP in the late 90's.

Their efforts to install cable / internet in our road and development were dire and they never did pass, but OTOH no pavement nor car park damage!

> - I should know as I was one of the first 300 beta testers my employer
> having sold my dept to NTL as of 1st July 1999. What is more that was
> dial-up - 0845 455 0520 as I remember. Telewest were much later.
>
> I have been with them ever since through thick and thin and have only
> had four outages in all that time. But like you the time is coming that
> I have to consider moving as CityFibre piped our area in the first year
> of lockdown - it was actually TT that set it off but CF bought the fibre
> business off them. Add to that I am paying £42/m (inc discount!) for
> 50/5 (Interweb and a phone we never use) and can get 150 both ways for
> about £27 on fibre, VM have written the annual uplift into the contract
> so you can no longer use it as an excuse to leave without penalty, and
> for that uplift they use the February RPI+3.9% - note RPI, not the lower
> CPI that everyone else uses. This year my charge increased by 16.7%
> where everyone else was about 14%! My contract expires 29th Dec - I hate
> to think what it will cost me after that. Oh, and you have to keep a
> limited service going for 3 months after termination to catch all of
> your emails - and its chargeable!
>
> The downside is that none of the SPs on CF provide e-mail services so
> you end up having to change your email addresses to such as
> Gmail/Yahoo/Hotmail or something like Mythic Beasts which is chargeable
> and needs some in-depth understanding how to set it up. If you use VM
> for phone as well your range of fibre providers drops to just a couple -
> like Zen or A&A - as none of the others have such. Yes I know you can
> get a VoIP account but it is just another thing to go wrong and (more to
> the point) to have to hand drive demarcation points when things go wrong.

Are you saying they block VOIP telephony?

>
> I wouldn't mind staying with VM, after all it is very reliable, but
> their charges are just getting silly.

So are BT's...

On 18/11/2023 17:03, notya...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, 17 November 2023 at 20:50:48 UTC, Woody wrote:
>> On Fri 17/11/2023 18:44, Tweed wrote:
>>> After more than 30 odd years with VM and their predecessors I’ve just
>>> cancelled. CityFibre have just installed at my house and I get a far better
>>> service at a much lower price. Lower latency, fixed ipv4 address, ipv6
>>> range of addresses, twice the download speed, 20 times the upload speed,
>>> all at 60% of the cost. I’ve been looking forwards to sacking them after
>>> their recent series of prices rises. Over the past few years they’ve more
>>> or less doubled the cost.
>>>
>>>
>> You got that one wrong. NTL didn't start in the Interweb game until 1990
>
> NT Hell UK founded 31 years ago. One [and the OP] could get cable TV from them thirty years ago.
>
> They were poor, and [as you say] probably started as an ISP in the late 90's.
>
> Their efforts to install cable / internet in our road and development were dire and they never did pass, but OTOH no pavement nor car park damage!
>
>> - I should know as I was one of the first 300 beta testers my employer
>> having sold my dept to NTL as of 1st July 1999. What is more that was
>> dial-up - 0845 455 0520 as I remember. Telewest were much later.
>>
>> I have been with them ever since through thick and thin and have only
>> had four outages in all that time. But like you the time is coming that
>> I have to consider moving as CityFibre piped our area in the first year
>> of lockdown - it was actually TT that set it off but CF bought the fibre
>> business off them. Add to that I am paying £42/m (inc discount!) for
>> 50/5 (Interweb and a phone we never use) and can get 150 both ways for
>> about £27 on fibre, VM have written the annual uplift into the contract
>> so you can no longer use it as an excuse to leave without penalty, and
>> for that uplift they use the February RPI+3.9% - note RPI, not the lower
>> CPI that everyone else uses. This year my charge increased by 16.7%
>> where everyone else was about 14%! My contract expires 29th Dec - I hate
>> to think what it will cost me after that. Oh, and you have to keep a
>> limited service going for 3 months after termination to catch all of
>> your emails - and its chargeable!
>>
>> The downside is that none of the SPs on CF provide e-mail services so
>> you end up having to change your email addresses to such as
>> Gmail/Yahoo/Hotmail or something like Mythic Beasts which is chargeable
>> and needs some in-depth understanding how to set it up. If you use VM
>> for phone as well your range of fibre providers drops to just a couple -
>> like Zen or A&A - as none of the others have such. Yes I know you can
>> get a VoIP account but it is just another thing to go wrong and (more to
>> the point) to have to hand drive demarcation points when things go wrong.

I chose to split mine to avoid being tied into a provider because they
lump both services into one contract.

>
> Are you saying they block VOIP telephony?
>
>>
>> I wouldn't mind staying with VM, after all it is very reliable, but
>> their charges are just getting silly.
>
> So are BT's...

Dave

Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 13:25:01 -0000 (UTC)
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 11:29:44 +0000, Tweed wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 18 Nov 2023 09:05:55 +0000, Tweed wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There aren’t many ISPs from the mid 90s still around in their
>>>>>> original form. Andrews and Arnold are the only other one I can
>>>>>> think of. I’m also a customer of theirs, and they are very good
>>>>>> too. The only reason I didn’t choose them for my CF connection
>>>>>> is they only offer 150Mb and 1000Mb speed tiers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting. I have an Openreach connection with AAISP, and I had
>>>>> a choice of a number of speeds. I chose 300 Mb/s, as it was the
>>>>> same price as the previous FTTC.
>>>>>
>>>>> AAISP may be more expensive, but price rises are rare. More
>>>>> often, they increase your download quota. Mine currently sits at
>>>>> over 45 TB per month.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> https://www.aa.net.uk/broadband/home1-cityfibre-services/
>>>>
>>>> I did ask if there was going to be a 500ish service but the answer
>>>> was no.
>>>
>>> I got mine in August last year, so perhaps something has changed.
>>>
>>> Ah, I see. The CF option only offers two speeds; the OR one offers
>>> several more. I went for OR.
>>>
>>>> So far IDNet seem to be offering the same high quality of
>>>> service as A&A but at a lower cost (and no download caps)
>>>
>>> The download cap isn't a problem at 47TB/month! And I haven't had a
>>> price rise in living memory, apart from 20p a month extra on VoIP
>>> numbers due to increased termination costs.
>>>
>>
>> Likewise, I’ve used A&A at another property for 16 years and have
>> never suffered a price rise. Their reassuringly expensive rates are
>> becoming reassuringly close to everyone else as time goes by. When VM
>> wanted more than A&A it was time to look elsewhere. Happily CityFibre
>> turned up at the right moment.
>>
>
> My Zen rates (landline and ADSL) have never increased, since I started
> with them in 2010, and they speak Lancashire English on the 'phone. On
> the few occasions that I have had to ask for help, it has been quick and
> accurate. My downloads have no monthly limit.
> I have no reason to contemplate leaving an excellent supplier.
>

Just looked at IDNet and they undercut all the other ISPs that provide
fibre via OpenReach that I’ve found so far, but, my Zen rate FTTP is fixed
at about the same level and supposedly won’t increase.

Must admit I’m tempted by their offer. I used them to provide my mother
with the cheapest possible internet and found their customer service
excellent (and fast!).

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Jeff Gaines wrote:

> I am with Plusnet and hoping they might start re-selling Giganet.

With PN being owned by BT, I wouldn't hold your breath ...