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aus+uk / aus.cars / Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

SubjectAuthor
* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
+* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysalvey
|`- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysGrumpy Tech
 +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 |+- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 |+* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysDaryl
 ||`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 || `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysDaryl
 ||  `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||   +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||   `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 ||    +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||    `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 ||     |+* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     ||+- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 ||     || +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     || `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     ||  +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||  |`- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysClocky
 ||     ||  +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysalvey
 ||     ||  `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 ||     ||   `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     ||    +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysDaryl
 ||     ||    |+- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||    |`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     ||    | +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||    | `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysDaryl
 ||     ||    |  `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     ||    |   `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||    |    `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysYosemite Sam
 ||     ||    |     `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||    |      `- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysjonz@ nothere.com
 ||     ||    `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||     `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 ||     ||      +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     ||      |+* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysYosemite Sam
 ||     ||      ||`- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      |+- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysalvey
 ||     ||      |+* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysalvey
 ||     ||      ||`- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      |`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 ||     ||      | +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      | +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysalvey
 ||     ||      | |`- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      | `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     ||      |  +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      |  |`- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysalvey
 ||     ||      |  +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      |  +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysalvey
 ||     ||      |  `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 ||     ||      |   +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysalvey
 ||     ||      |   +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysDaryl
 ||     ||      |   |`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysalvey
 ||     ||      |   | `- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      |   +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     ||      |   |+- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      |   |`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 ||     ||      |   | +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysjonz@ nothere.com
 ||     ||      |   | +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     ||      |   | |+- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      |   | |`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 ||     ||      |   | | +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      |   | | `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     ||      |   | |  `- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysClocky
 ||     ||      |   | `- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysClocky
 ||     ||      |   `- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysYosemite Sam
 ||     ||      |`- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||      `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 ||     ||       `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysYosemite Sam
 ||     ||        `- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysClocky
 ||     |`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysDaryl
 ||     | +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysDaryl
 ||     | +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 ||     | `- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 ||     `* Had an interesting visitor the past few dayskeithr0
 ||      `- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 |+* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysClocky
 ||+* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 |||`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysjonz@ nothere.com
 ||| `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 |||  +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 |||  |`- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysClocky
 |||  +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysjonz@ nothere.com
 |||  |`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 |||  | +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 |||  | +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysClocky
 |||  | `- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 |||  `- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysalvey
 ||`- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 |+- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysalvey
 |`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 | +- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 | +* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysDaryl
 | |+* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 | ||`- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 | |+- Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno
 | |`* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysJohn_H
 | `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysNoddy
 `* Had an interesting visitor the past few daysXeno

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Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<jeeb57Fn4q1U2@mid.individual.net>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=14614&group=aus.cars#14614

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From: fel...@invalid.com (Yosemite Sam)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 17:01:17 +1000
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In-Reply-To: <t5sn1f$dh6$1@dont-email.me>
 by: Yosemite Sam - Mon, 16 May 2022 07:01 UTC

On 16/05/2022 3:21 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 15/05/2022 10:14 am, Noddy wrote:
>
>> I don't mind paying for it if I'm getting what I'm paying for, but
>> like everyone else I know who deals with Telstra I ain't. I'm on a
>> 50Mbps fixed wireless plan, but if I ever get anything above 20Mbps
>> I'm doing exceptionally well.
>>
>
> LOL!
>
> No wonder your kid listens to vinyls, that's all that fucking works in
> that shithole you live in :-)
>

I can get 500 mbps if I'm willing to pay for it. I don't think there's
any faster plan at present.

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

Q:When is noddy not lying?
A:Anytime his lips aren't moving!

FUCK PUTIN!!

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<jeebnlFna76U1@mid.individual.net>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=14615&group=aus.cars#14615

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From: fel...@invalid.com (Yosemite Sam)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 17:11:07 +1000
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 by: Yosemite Sam - Mon, 16 May 2022 07:11 UTC

On 16/05/2022 5:01 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 16/05/2022 3:21 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 15/05/2022 10:14 am, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>> I don't mind paying for it if I'm getting what I'm paying for, but
>>> like everyone else I know who deals with Telstra I ain't. I'm on a
>>> 50Mbps fixed wireless plan, but if I ever get anything above 20Mbps
>>> I'm doing exceptionally well.
>>>
>>
>> LOL!
>>
>> No wonder your kid listens to vinyls, that's all that fucking works
>> in that shithole you live in :-)
>>
>
> I can get 500 mbps if I'm willing to pay for it. I don't think there's
> any faster plan at present.
>
>

nup. I can get 1000 mbps  :)

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

Q:When is noddy not lying?
A:Anytime his lips aren't moving!

FUCK PUTIN!!

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<esq7s49uta53.phpkt9aimojc.dlg@40tude.net>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=14616&group=aus.cars#14616

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From: alv...@is.invalid (alvey)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 17:31:52 +1000
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 by: alvey - Mon, 16 May 2022 07:31 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 13:21:52 +0800, Clocky wrote:

> On 15/05/2022 10:14 am, Noddy wrote:
>
>> I don't mind paying for it if I'm getting what I'm paying for, but like
>> everyone else I know who deals with Telstra I ain't. I'm on a 50Mbps
>> fixed wireless plan, but if I ever get anything above 20Mbps I'm doing
>> exceptionally well.
>>
>
> LOL!
>
> No wonder your kid listens to vinyls, that's all that fucking works in
> that shithole you live in :-)

There's only one thing that's louder than whinging from country folk on
what they're not getting that city dwellers are, and that's when they bray
about how much better country living is than city.

alvey

--
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Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<vdu38h1iuioofe4nccotu8o87c8epu6qd3@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=14618&group=aus.cars#14618

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From: john4...@hotmail.com (John_H)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 17:35:34 +1000
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 by: John_H - Mon, 16 May 2022 07:35 UTC

Noddy wrote:
>On 15/05/2022 4:04 pm, John_H wrote:
>> Noddy wrote:
>
>>> You clearly have a love for Triumph cars and are happy to talk them up,
>>> but I think you guild the lily somewhat. I have zero experience with
>>> them (thankfully), but despite that I found your comments about their
>>> ""high VE" resulting in a "much higher than typical bmep" to be a cause
>>> for the engines to not run properly on 98ron fuel to be perplexing.
>>
>> Than let me take it a little bit further at the risk of confusing you
>> further.
>
>ROTFL :) Go your hardest. I'm up for it :)
>
>> As the octane rating for Super petrol dropped, as it did in
>> the 80s (you mentioned 98RON not me), the normal solution was to
>> retard the ignition timing (nowadays most EFI cars do it
>> automatically).
>
>Actually, you mentioned 98ron in a post you made on Friday when you said
>the following:
>
>> 9.5:1 static IIRC. The Escort Mk1 twin cam, which was a very
>> successful rally car of the same era ran around the same CR and I'd
>> also doubt if it would be able to handle 98RON bowser fuel for the
>> same reason whereas relatively crude American V8's ran 12:1 or more
>> but had much lower VE..
>
>Just sayin....

IIRC in response to your claim that a engine with 9.5:1 CR (static)
would run happily on today's bowser fuel (which is 98RON). The fuel
in question was 1980's Super.

>> What effect do you think retarding the ignition has on intake vacuum?
>>
>> I'll leave the rest for you to work out. :)
>
>Right. So what you're saying *now* is that retarded the timing and
>*that* caused the thing to not run properly.
>
>Seriously? Just exactly how temperamental *were* these things?

They were only temperamental for the ignorant dickheads who didn't
understand how the Lucas system operated... inlet vacuum being the
essential clue.

>>> The reason for that is because unless I'm missing something that you
>>> haven't mentioned, there was nothing outstanding about either the VE or
>>> the BMEP rating of the injected Triumph engine. In fact, if you look at
>>> the specs you'll find that the BMEP of the 2.5 PI engine was only a
>>> poofteeth greater than that of a Red Holden 202, and regardless of how
>>> much of an improvement in VE the injection manifold made over that used
>>> with carburetors I'll happily bet my left nut that the VE was nothing
>>> like 100% which means the 9.5:1 static compression ratio was the hard
>>> upper limit.
>>>
>>> This one seems to be getting along nice, and while there's no mention of
>>> the fuel used, I would assume it's the regular 95Ron used in the UK
>>> these days.
>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyBL2wq-AX8
>>
>> Yes, he mentions putting a milder cam in it. What effect do you think
>> that had on the intake vacuum?
>
>A milder cam? I didn't watch the entire video, but I would imagine the
>factory cam in something like a Triumph 2500pi would be pretty tame,
>considering that it's fuel system relied on a solid manifold vacuum to
>correctly adjust itself on the fly.
>
>Still, I'm happy to stand corrected. A quick look online and I find
>these figures:
>
>2500pi Mk.I:
>
>Inlet opens @ 18 deg BTDC
>Inlet Closes @ 58 deg ABDC
>Exhaust opens 58 deg BBDC
>Exhaust closes 18 deg ATDC.
>
>That's a pretty short, sedate cam timing in anyone's language, and it's
>difficult to imagine how a "milder" cam would have made any appreciable
>difference to anything compared to that. Especially with regards to
>manifold vacuum.

As we both know (or should) duration figures tell us SFA about cam
lobe profiles.

>Just for shits and giggles value, look at these figures here:
>
>Inlet opens @ 35 deg BTDC
>Inlet closes @ 75 degrees ABDC
>Exhaust opens 70 deg BBDC
>Exhaust closes 40 deg ATDC
>
>That's quite an aggressive timing profile compared to the much more
>sedate Triumph figures, and the casual observer could be forgiven for
>thinking they come from a performance engine. But they don't. They're
>the standard cam timing figures for a Holden 161 red motor.

As you should also know you can't compare duration figures (or
profiles) between dissimilar engines or even similar engines of
different capacity. Cam grinds between solid and hydraulic lifters
also differ. A short duration cam will also result in a higher
dynamic CR, which is the only one that matters in spite of your claim
that static CR solely determines octane requirements. It doesn't.

>Now, if you're going to start in by saying differences in induction
>systems and volumetric efficiency are the key factor in determining the
>cam profile used in a given engine for a given role and this is
>highlighted here by the significant differences between these two
>profiles you'd be exactly right, but the point is that the Triumph cam
>is *extremely* soft to begin with and I can't imagine anything "milder"
>than that and the thing still being able to run and make as much power
>as a blender.

Only according to you. What I do know for a fact, cos I've done it,
is that the "extremely soft" cam out of a PI will run lumpy in the
similar but smaller capacity 2000 engine, the corollary being that the
2000 cam will be considerably milder in the larger capacity PI.
Changing cams in a PI also requires recalibrating the metering unit
(which is beyond the expertise of a normal mechanic).

--
John H

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<jeed9bFniitU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=14619&group=aus.cars#14619

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From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 17:37:14 +1000
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In-Reply-To: <jeebnlFna76U1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Xeno - Mon, 16 May 2022 07:37 UTC

On 16/5/2022 5:11 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 16/05/2022 5:01 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> On 16/05/2022 3:21 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 15/05/2022 10:14 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't mind paying for it if I'm getting what I'm paying for, but
>>>> like everyone else I know who deals with Telstra I ain't. I'm on a
>>>> 50Mbps fixed wireless plan, but if I ever get anything above 20Mbps
>>>> I'm doing exceptionally well.
>>>>
>>>
>>> LOL!
>>>
>>> No wonder your kid listens to vinyls, that's all that fucking works
>>> in that shithole you live in :-)
>>>
>>
>> I can get 500 mbps if I'm willing to pay for it. I don't think there's
>> any faster plan at present.
>>
>>
>
> nup. I can get 1000 mbps  :)
>
>
I don't particularly care what upper level I can get - as long as I can
get what I currently get. It's enough for the two of us. In fact, my
wife is the heaviest internet user round here by far!

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<t5t9gs$1p0$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

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From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 20:37:14 +1000
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 by: Noddy - Mon, 16 May 2022 10:37 UTC

On 16/05/2022 5:35 pm, John_H wrote:
> Noddy wrote:

>> Actually, you mentioned 98ron in a post you made on Friday when you said
>> the following:
>>
>>> 9.5:1 static IIRC. The Escort Mk1 twin cam, which was a very
>>> successful rally car of the same era ran around the same CR and I'd
>>> also doubt if it would be able to handle 98RON bowser fuel for the
>>> same reason whereas relatively crude American V8's ran 12:1 or more
>>> but had much lower VE..
>>
>> Just sayin....
>
> IIRC in response to your claim that a engine with 9.5:1 CR (static)
> would run happily on today's bowser fuel (which is 98RON). The fuel
> in question was 1980's Super.

Whatever. You mentioned 98ron, that's why I repeated it.

>> Right. So what you're saying *now* is that retarded the timing and
>> *that* caused the thing to not run properly.
>>
>> Seriously? Just exactly how temperamental *were* these things?
>
> They were only temperamental for the ignorant dickheads who didn't
> understand how the Lucas system operated... inlet vacuum being the
> essential clue.

So backing the timing off a couple of degrees to stop the things pinging
killed them?

>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyBL2wq-AX8
>>>
>>> Yes, he mentions putting a milder cam in it. What effect do you think
>>> that had on the intake vacuum?
>>
>> A milder cam? I didn't watch the entire video, but I would imagine the
>> factory cam in something like a Triumph 2500pi would be pretty tame,
>> considering that it's fuel system relied on a solid manifold vacuum to
>> correctly adjust itself on the fly.
>>
>> Still, I'm happy to stand corrected. A quick look online and I find
>> these figures:
>>
>> 2500pi Mk.I:
>>
>> Inlet opens @ 18 deg BTDC
>> Inlet Closes @ 58 deg ABDC
>> Exhaust opens 58 deg BBDC
>> Exhaust closes 18 deg ATDC.
>>
>> That's a pretty short, sedate cam timing in anyone's language, and it's
>> difficult to imagine how a "milder" cam would have made any appreciable
>> difference to anything compared to that. Especially with regards to
>> manifold vacuum.
>
> As we both know (or should) duration figures tell us SFA about cam
> lobe profiles.

They don't paint the entire picture, agreed, but information is limited.

The figures I quoted for the cam timing were obtained from here:

> https://triumph2000register.co.uk/the-cars/technical-specifications/

The only other figures mentioned on that page that I didn't quote that
are somewhat relevant is the valve lift, which is listed as 312
thousandths at the valve, and the rocker arm ratio which is listed at
1.5:1. Now, I have no idea of lobe separation or ramp angles, but given
that the cam was most likely a mechanical flat tappet

>> Now, if you're going to start in by saying differences in induction
>> systems and volumetric efficiency are the key factor in determining the
>> cam profile used in a given engine for a given role and this is
>> highlighted here by the significant differences between these two
>> profiles you'd be exactly right, but the point is that the Triumph cam
>> is *extremely* soft to begin with and I can't imagine anything "milder"
>> than that and the thing still being able to run and make as much power
>> as a blender.
>
> Only according to you.

According to the quoted specs actually.

> What I do know for a fact, cos I've done it,
> is that the "extremely soft" cam out of a PI will run lumpy in the
> similar but smaller capacity 2000 engine,

There is absolutely *nothing* in the cam specs anywhere that I can see
that would suggest that it would run lumpy in *anything*. Nothing. Short
duration & very low lift which suggests the ramp angles are gentler than
your average speed hump.

I'm not suggesting what you're saying isn't true, but I can't imagine
something this soft being even *remotely* lumpy unless the cam it
replaced was virtually round on every lobe.

> the corollary being that the
> 2000 cam will be considerably milder in the larger capacity PI.
> Changing cams in a PI also requires recalibrating the metering unit
> (which is beyond the expertise of a normal mechanic).

But you could do it?

I have to offer you an apology here, as I think I've read more into your
comments than what you've actually been saying. When you started off
saying that the things wouldn't run properly on lower grade fuels and
you eventually parked it up because of it I assumed that there was
something special about the things where anything less that high octane
fuel caused a massive abnormality that prevented the things from
actually running at all.

But what it actually sounds like was that lower grade fuel just made it
ping like most other engines of the day, and pulling some timing out of
it to curb the pinging took the edge off it's performance. I've not
messed with Lucas timed injection so I can't comment on how fussy they
are, but if taking a couple of inches of mercury out of the manifold
vacuum is enough to make you want to park the car and not drive it then
the obvious question I have to ask is why the hell would anyone *want* one?

You sure that it didn't get sidelined by mechanical unreliability like
most other British cars at the time, and you just find it easier to
blame that on "fuel quality"?

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<jeer20Fq6hvU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=14623&group=aus.cars#14623

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 21:32:14 +1000
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In-Reply-To: <t5t9gs$1p0$1@dont-email.me>
 by: Daryl - Mon, 16 May 2022 11:32 UTC

On 16/5/2022 8:37 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 16/05/2022 5:35 pm, John_H wrote:
>> Noddy wrote:
>
>
>>> Actually, you mentioned 98ron in a post you made on Friday when you said
>>> the following:
>>>
>>>> 9.5:1 static IIRC.  The Escort Mk1 twin cam, which was a very
>>>> successful rally car of the same era ran around the same CR and I'd
>>>> also doubt if it would be able to handle 98RON bowser fuel for the
>>>> same reason whereas relatively crude American V8's ran 12:1 or more
>>>> but had much lower VE..
>>>
>>> Just sayin....
>>
>> IIRC in response to your claim that a engine with 9.5:1 CR (static)
>> would run happily on today's bowser fuel (which is 98RON).  The fuel
>> in question was 1980's Super.
>
> Whatever. You mentioned 98ron, that's why I repeated it.
>
>>> Right. So what you're saying *now* is that retarded the timing and
>>> *that* caused the thing to not run properly.
>>>
>>> Seriously? Just exactly how temperamental *were* these things?
>>
>> They were only temperamental for the ignorant dickheads who didn't
>> understand how the Lucas system operated... inlet vacuum being the
>> essential clue.
>
> So backing the timing off a couple of degrees to stop the things pinging
> killed them?
>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyBL2wq-AX8
>>>>
>>>> Yes, he mentions putting a milder cam in it.  What effect do you think
>>>> that had on the intake vacuum?
>>>
>>> A milder cam? I didn't watch the entire video, but I would imagine the
>>> factory cam in something like a Triumph 2500pi would be pretty tame,
>>> considering that it's fuel system relied on a solid manifold vacuum to
>>> correctly adjust itself on the fly.
>>>
>>> Still, I'm happy to stand corrected. A quick look online and I find
>>> these figures:
>>>
>>> 2500pi Mk.I:
>>>
>>> Inlet opens @ 18 deg BTDC
>>> Inlet Closes @ 58 deg ABDC
>>> Exhaust opens 58 deg BBDC
>>> Exhaust closes 18 deg ATDC.
>>>
>>> That's a pretty short, sedate cam timing in anyone's language, and it's
>>> difficult to imagine how a "milder" cam would have made any appreciable
>>> difference to anything compared to that. Especially with regards to
>>> manifold vacuum.
>>
>> As we both know (or should) duration figures tell us SFA about cam
>> lobe profiles.
>
> They don't paint the entire picture, agreed, but information is limited.
>
> The figures I quoted for the cam timing were obtained from here:
>
>> https://triumph2000register.co.uk/the-cars/technical-specifications/
>
> The only other figures mentioned on that page that I didn't quote that
> are somewhat relevant is the valve lift, which is listed as 312
> thousandths at the valve, and the rocker arm ratio which is listed at
> 1.5:1. Now, I have no idea of lobe separation or ramp angles, but given
> that the cam was most likely a mechanical flat tappet
>
>
>>> Now, if you're going to start in by saying differences in induction
>>> systems and volumetric efficiency are the key factor in determining the
>>> cam profile used in a given engine for a given role and this is
>>> highlighted here by the significant differences between these two
>>> profiles you'd be exactly right, but the point is that the Triumph cam
>>> is *extremely* soft to begin with and I can't imagine anything "milder"
>>> than that and the thing still being able to run and make as much power
>>> as a blender.
>>
>> Only according to you.
>
> According to the quoted specs actually.
>
>> What I do know for a fact, cos I've done it,
>> is that the "extremely soft" cam out of a PI will run lumpy in the
>> similar but smaller capacity 2000 engine,
>
> There is absolutely *nothing* in the cam specs anywhere that I can see
> that would suggest that it would run lumpy in *anything*. Nothing. Short
> duration & very low lift which suggests the ramp angles are gentler than
> your average speed hump.
>
> I'm not suggesting what you're saying isn't true, but I can't imagine
> something this soft being even *remotely* lumpy unless the cam it
> replaced was virtually round on every lobe.
>
>> the corollary being that the
>> 2000 cam will be considerably milder in the larger capacity PI.
>> Changing cams in a PI also requires recalibrating the metering unit
>> (which is beyond the expertise of a normal mechanic).
>
> But you could do it?
>
> I have to offer you an apology here, as I think I've read more into your
> comments than what you've actually been saying. When you started off
> saying that the things wouldn't run properly on lower grade fuels and
> you eventually parked it up because of it I assumed that there was
> something special about the things where anything less that high octane
> fuel caused a massive abnormality that prevented the things from
> actually running at all.

I don't recall John saying whether or not he still has it but if so I
wonder if it would run OK on E85 or 98 with an octane booster such as this,
http://www.hi-flow.com/HP016OS.html
I also wonder if its possible to modify cars with old style mechanical
injection to run a modern EFI system, maybe with some sort of adapter
replace the old injectors with new type then an aftermarket ECU such as
a Haltech, you would also need some sort of crank/cam position sensor
plus lots of other wiring and fuel plumbing but I can't see why it
wouldn't work.
Plenty of old cars such as MB and Porsche run mechanical injection so I
wasn't just thinking about the Triumph.

--
Daryl

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<jeeragFq7gnU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

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From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 21:36:47 +1000
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In-Reply-To: <jeer20Fq6hvU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Xeno - Mon, 16 May 2022 11:36 UTC

On 16/5/2022 9:32 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 16/5/2022 8:37 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 16/05/2022 5:35 pm, John_H wrote:
>>> Noddy wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> Actually, you mentioned 98ron in a post you made on Friday when you
>>>> said
>>>> the following:
>>>>
>>>>> 9.5:1 static IIRC.  The Escort Mk1 twin cam, which was a very
>>>>> successful rally car of the same era ran around the same CR and I'd
>>>>> also doubt if it would be able to handle 98RON bowser fuel for the
>>>>> same reason whereas relatively crude American V8's ran 12:1 or more
>>>>> but had much lower VE..
>>>>
>>>> Just sayin....
>>>
>>> IIRC in response to your claim that a engine with 9.5:1 CR (static)
>>> would run happily on today's bowser fuel (which is 98RON).  The fuel
>>> in question was 1980's Super.
>>
>> Whatever. You mentioned 98ron, that's why I repeated it.
>>
>>>> Right. So what you're saying *now* is that retarded the timing and
>>>> *that* caused the thing to not run properly.
>>>>
>>>> Seriously? Just exactly how temperamental *were* these things?
>>>
>>> They were only temperamental for the ignorant dickheads who didn't
>>> understand how the Lucas system operated... inlet vacuum being the
>>> essential clue.
>>
>> So backing the timing off a couple of degrees to stop the things
>> pinging killed them?
>>
>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyBL2wq-AX8
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, he mentions putting a milder cam in it.  What effect do you think
>>>>> that had on the intake vacuum?
>>>>
>>>> A milder cam? I didn't watch the entire video, but I would imagine the
>>>> factory cam in something like a Triumph 2500pi would be pretty tame,
>>>> considering that it's fuel system relied on a solid manifold vacuum to
>>>> correctly adjust itself on the fly.
>>>>
>>>> Still, I'm happy to stand corrected. A quick look online and I find
>>>> these figures:
>>>>
>>>> 2500pi Mk.I:
>>>>
>>>> Inlet opens @ 18 deg BTDC
>>>> Inlet Closes @ 58 deg ABDC
>>>> Exhaust opens 58 deg BBDC
>>>> Exhaust closes 18 deg ATDC.
>>>>
>>>> That's a pretty short, sedate cam timing in anyone's language, and it's
>>>> difficult to imagine how a "milder" cam would have made any appreciable
>>>> difference to anything compared to that. Especially with regards to
>>>> manifold vacuum.
>>>
>>> As we both know (or should) duration figures tell us SFA about cam
>>> lobe profiles.
>>
>> They don't paint the entire picture, agreed, but information is limited.
>>
>> The figures I quoted for the cam timing were obtained from here:
>>
>>> https://triumph2000register.co.uk/the-cars/technical-specifications/
>>
>> The only other figures mentioned on that page that I didn't quote that
>> are somewhat relevant is the valve lift, which is listed as 312
>> thousandths at the valve, and the rocker arm ratio which is listed at
>> 1.5:1. Now, I have no idea of lobe separation or ramp angles, but
>> given that the cam was most likely a mechanical flat tappet
>>
>>
>>>> Now, if you're going to start in by saying differences in induction
>>>> systems and volumetric efficiency are the key factor in determining the
>>>> cam profile used in a given engine for a given role and this is
>>>> highlighted here by the significant differences between these two
>>>> profiles you'd be exactly right, but the point is that the Triumph cam
>>>> is *extremely* soft to begin with and I can't imagine anything "milder"
>>>> than that and the thing still being able to run and make as much power
>>>> as a blender.
>>>
>>> Only according to you.
>>
>> According to the quoted specs actually.
>>
>>> What I do know for a fact, cos I've done it,
>>> is that the "extremely soft" cam out of a PI will run lumpy in the
>>> similar but smaller capacity 2000 engine,
>>
>> There is absolutely *nothing* in the cam specs anywhere that I can see
>> that would suggest that it would run lumpy in *anything*. Nothing.
>> Short duration & very low lift which suggests the ramp angles are
>> gentler than your average speed hump.
>>
>> I'm not suggesting what you're saying isn't true, but I can't imagine
>> something this soft being even *remotely* lumpy unless the cam it
>> replaced was virtually round on every lobe.
>>
>>> the corollary being that the
>>> 2000 cam will be considerably milder in the larger capacity PI.
>>> Changing cams in a PI also requires recalibrating the metering unit
>>> (which is beyond the expertise of a normal mechanic).
>>
>> But you could do it?
>>
>> I have to offer you an apology here, as I think I've read more into
>> your comments than what you've actually been saying. When you started
>> off saying that the things wouldn't run properly on lower grade fuels
>> and you eventually parked it up because of it I assumed that there was
>> something special about the things where anything less that high
>> octane fuel caused a massive abnormality that prevented the things
>> from actually running at all.
>
> I don't recall John saying whether or not he still has it but if so I
> wonder if it would run OK on E85 or 98 with an octane booster such as this,
> http://www.hi-flow.com/HP016OS.html
> I also wonder if its possible to modify cars with old style mechanical
> injection to run a modern EFI system, maybe with some sort of adapter
> replace the old injectors with new type then an aftermarket ECU such as
> a Haltech, you would also need some sort of crank/cam position sensor
> plus lots of other wiring and fuel plumbing but I can't see why it
> wouldn't work.
> Plenty of old cars such as MB and Porsche run mechanical injection so I
> wasn't just thinking about the Triumph.
>
Then it's no longer a *classic* Triumph 2.5 PI.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<t5tei6$8tj$1@dont-email.me>

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From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 22:03:16 +1000
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 by: Noddy - Mon, 16 May 2022 12:03 UTC

On 16/05/2022 9:32 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 16/5/2022 8:37 pm, Noddy wrote:

>
> I don't recall John saying whether or not he still has it but if so I
> wonder if it would run OK on E85 or 98 with an octane booster such as this,
> http://www.hi-flow.com/HP016OS.html

Dunno, but in my books anything that comes out of a bottle that claims
it protects valves and guides, and enables old fashioned clearing of
fouled spark plugs isn't something I'd bother buying :)

> I also wonder if its possible to modify cars with old style mechanical
> injection to run a modern EFI system, maybe with some sort of adapter
> replace the old injectors with new type then an aftermarket ECU such as
> a Haltech, you would also need some sort of crank/cam position sensor
> plus lots of other wiring and fuel plumbing but I can't see why it
> wouldn't work.

The only thing stopping it from working would be the amount of time and
money you were prepared to sink into it.

> Plenty of old cars such as MB and Porsche run mechanical injection so I
> wasn't just thinking about the Triumph.

You can get after-market kits to suit just about anything, or you can
make your own hybrid version. I don't think it'd be at all difficult.
The only question would be whether or not you wanted to.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<jef0j4Fr6qlU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 23:06:42 +1000
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In-Reply-To: <t5tei6$8tj$1@dont-email.me>
 by: Xeno - Mon, 16 May 2022 13:06 UTC

On 16/5/2022 10:03 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 16/05/2022 9:32 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 16/5/2022 8:37 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't recall John saying whether or not he still has it but if so I
>> wonder if it would run OK on E85 or 98 with an octane booster such as
>> this,
>> http://www.hi-flow.com/HP016OS.html
>
> Dunno, but in my books anything that comes out of a bottle that claims
> it protects valves and guides, and enables old fashioned clearing of
> fouled spark plugs isn't something I'd bother buying :)

An octane booster will do the one thing that it is designed to do -
boost the octane. What do you think the fuel companies did in the past
to boost octane in the fuel they delivered. Yes, they added an *octane
booster* to the fuel delivered. In the good old days it was TEL but
later they used MTBE, BTEX, even ethanol. Did you know, for instance,
that the Model T Ford intially was designed to use *ethanol* as its
fuel. Man, there's a huge octane boost right there! E85 has an octane
rating in Aus of about 105 but John is unlikely to want to run even E10
in his Triumph.
>
>> I also wonder if its possible to modify cars with old style mechanical
>> injection to run a modern EFI system, maybe with some sort of adapter
>> replace the old injectors with new type then an aftermarket ECU such
>> as a Haltech, you would also need some sort of crank/cam position
>> sensor plus lots of other wiring and fuel plumbing but I can't see why
>> it wouldn't work.
>
> The only thing stopping it from working would be the amount of time and
> money you were prepared to sink into it.
>
>> Plenty of old cars such as MB and Porsche run mechanical injection so
>> I wasn't just thinking about the Triumph.

They all run Bosch systems, totally different systems and were, for the
most part - *continuous injection systems (CIS)*.
>
> You can get after-market kits to suit just about anything, or you can
> make your own hybrid version. I don't think it'd be at all difficult.
> The only question would be whether or not you wanted to.
>
>
>
>
>

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<jef165Fra8cU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 23:16:51 +1000
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In-Reply-To: <t5t9gs$1p0$1@dont-email.me>
 by: Xeno - Mon, 16 May 2022 13:16 UTC

On 16/5/2022 8:37 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 16/05/2022 5:35 pm, John_H wrote:
>> Noddy wrote:
>
>
>>> Actually, you mentioned 98ron in a post you made on Friday when you said
>>> the following:
>>>
>>>> 9.5:1 static IIRC.  The Escort Mk1 twin cam, which was a very
>>>> successful rally car of the same era ran around the same CR and I'd
>>>> also doubt if it would be able to handle 98RON bowser fuel for the
>>>> same reason whereas relatively crude American V8's ran 12:1 or more
>>>> but had much lower VE..
>>>
>>> Just sayin....
>>
>> IIRC in response to your claim that a engine with 9.5:1 CR (static)
>> would run happily on today's bowser fuel (which is 98RON).  The fuel
>> in question was 1980's Super.
>
> Whatever. You mentioned 98ron, that's why I repeated it.

John also said the fuel RON rating went *down* in the 80s.
>
>>> Right. So what you're saying *now* is that retarded the timing and
>>> *that* caused the thing to not run properly.
>>>
>>> Seriously? Just exactly how temperamental *were* these things?
>>
>> They were only temperamental for the ignorant dickheads who didn't
>> understand how the Lucas system operated... inlet vacuum being the
>> essential clue.
>
> So backing the timing off a couple of degrees to stop the things pinging
> killed them?

Doesn't do anything for performance, that much is sure.
>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyBL2wq-AX8
>>>>
>>>> Yes, he mentions putting a milder cam in it.  What effect do you think
>>>> that had on the intake vacuum?
>>>
>>> A milder cam? I didn't watch the entire video, but I would imagine the
>>> factory cam in something like a Triumph 2500pi would be pretty tame,
>>> considering that it's fuel system relied on a solid manifold vacuum to
>>> correctly adjust itself on the fly.
>>>
>>> Still, I'm happy to stand corrected. A quick look online and I find
>>> these figures:
>>>
>>> 2500pi Mk.I:
>>>
>>> Inlet opens @ 18 deg BTDC
>>> Inlet Closes @ 58 deg ABDC
>>> Exhaust opens 58 deg BBDC
>>> Exhaust closes 18 deg ATDC.
>>>
>>> That's a pretty short, sedate cam timing in anyone's language, and it's
>>> difficult to imagine how a "milder" cam would have made any appreciable
>>> difference to anything compared to that. Especially with regards to
>>> manifold vacuum.
>>
>> As we both know (or should) duration figures tell us SFA about cam
>> lobe profiles.
>
> They don't paint the entire picture, agreed, but information is limited.

You mean *information that you can GOOGLE* is limited.
>
> The figures I quoted for the cam timing were obtained from here:
>
>> https://triumph2000register.co.uk/the-cars/technical-specifications/
>
> The only other figures mentioned on that page that I didn't quote that
> are somewhat relevant is the valve lift, which is listed as 312
> thousandths at the valve, and the rocker arm ratio which is listed at
> 1.5:1. Now, I have no idea of lobe separation or ramp angles, but given
> that the cam was most likely a mechanical flat tappet
>
And Darren trails off, totally lost in Google.
>
>>> Now, if you're going to start in by saying differences in induction
>>> systems and volumetric efficiency are the key factor in determining the
>>> cam profile used in a given engine for a given role and this is
>>> highlighted here by the significant differences between these two
>>> profiles you'd be exactly right, but the point is that the Triumph cam
>>> is *extremely* soft to begin with and I can't imagine anything "milder"
>>> than that and the thing still being able to run and make as much power
>>> as a blender.
>>
>> Only according to you.
>
> According to the quoted specs actually.

The better the VE and, with that, inlet air flow characteristics, the
*less need* there is for large valve overlaps. You end up with
*smoother* idle as a side benefit. The BMEP figures should be telling
you something but, as expected, it all seems to be a whoosh moment for you.
>
>> What I do know for a fact, cos I've done it,
>> is that the "extremely soft" cam out of a PI will run lumpy in the
>> similar but smaller capacity 2000 engine,
>
> There is absolutely *nothing* in the cam specs anywhere that I can see
> that would suggest that it would run lumpy in *anything*. Nothing. Short
> duration & very low lift which suggests the ramp angles are gentler than
> your average speed hump.

The cam specs are *determined* by the air flow needs of the engine and
the use to which the engine will be put, not by what looks right to you.
>
> I'm not suggesting what you're saying isn't true, but I can't imagine
> something this soft being even *remotely* lumpy unless the cam it
> replaced was virtually round on every lobe.

Unbelievably naive riposte Darren. Supply facts, supply data, don't
supply unfounded *opinion*.
>
>> the corollary being that the
>> 2000 cam will be considerably milder in the larger capacity PI.
>> Changing cams in a PI also requires recalibrating the metering unit
>> (which is beyond the expertise of a normal mechanic).
>
> But you could do it?

John couldn't and wouldn't, I couldn't and wouldn't, you would and
totally stuff it up in the process, I refer to Les' engine as *exhibit
A*, the perfect example of not knowing what you don't know.>
> I have to offer you an apology here, as I think I've read more into your

And slowly slowly the realisation comes to Darren that he's wayyy out of
his depth and his little feet start rotating backwards.

> comments than what you've actually been saying. When you started off
> saying that the things wouldn't run properly on lower grade fuels and
> you eventually parked it up because of it I assumed that there was

You *assume* a lot of things Darren. Far better to actually study things
Darren, exactly the opposite of what you did in secondary school.

> something special about the things where anything less that high octane
> fuel caused a massive abnormality that prevented the things from
> actually running at all.
>
> But what it actually sounds like was that lower grade fuel just made it
> ping like most other engines of the day, and pulling some timing out of
> it to curb the pinging took the edge off it's performance. I've not
> messed with Lucas timed injection so I can't comment on how fussy they
> are, but if taking a couple of inches of mercury out of the manifold
> vacuum is enough to make you want to park the car and not drive it then
> the obvious question I have to ask is why the hell would anyone *want* one?
>
> You sure that it didn't get sidelined by mechanical unreliability like
> most other British cars at the time, and you just find it easier to
> blame that on "fuel quality"?
>
Now you're making things up again. Ah, old habits die hard.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<jeg67mF3m3aU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 09:49:08 +1000
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In-Reply-To: <t5tei6$8tj$1@dont-email.me>
 by: Daryl - Mon, 16 May 2022 23:49 UTC

On 16/5/2022 10:03 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 16/05/2022 9:32 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 16/5/2022 8:37 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't recall John saying whether or not he still has it but if so I
>> wonder if it would run OK on E85 or 98 with an octane booster such as
>> this,
>> http://www.hi-flow.com/HP016OS.html
>
> Dunno, but in my books anything that comes out of a bottle that claims
> it protects valves and guides, and enables old fashioned clearing of
> fouled spark plugs isn't something I'd bother buying :)

In the long run it would be cheaper to remove the head and modify to
better suit unleaded fuel.
>
>> I also wonder if its possible to modify cars with old style mechanical
>> injection to run a modern EFI system, maybe with some sort of adapter
>> replace the old injectors with new type then an aftermarket ECU such
>> as a Haltech, you would also need some sort of crank/cam position
>> sensor plus lots of other wiring and fuel plumbing but I can't see why
>> it wouldn't work.
>
> The only thing stopping it from working would be the amount of time and
> money you were prepared to sink into it.
>
>> Plenty of old cars such as MB and Porsche run mechanical injection so
>> I wasn't just thinking about the Triumph.
>
> You can get after-market kits to suit just about anything, or you can
> make your own hybrid version. I don't think it'd be at all difficult.
> The only question would be whether or not you wanted to.
>

Might be worth the effort on an old classic that was worth big money but
then you might ruin the originality.
I've seen what looked like side draft Webers on an old Jag engine that
were actually something like the Holley Sniper EFI system so best of
both worlds.

--
Daryl

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

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From: john4...@hotmail.com (John_H)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 10:07:36 +1000
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 by: John_H - Tue, 17 May 2022 00:07 UTC

Xeno wrote:
>On 16/5/2022 8:37 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 16/05/2022 5:35 pm, John_H wrote:
>>> Noddy wrote:
>
>John also said the fuel RON rating went *down* in the 80s.
>>
>>>> Right. So what you're saying *now* is that retarded the timing and
>>>> *that* caused the thing to not run properly.
>>>>
>>>> Seriously? Just exactly how temperamental *were* these things?
>>>
>>> They were only temperamental for the ignorant dickheads who didn't
>>> understand how the Lucas system operated... inlet vacuum being the
>>> essential clue.
>>
>> So backing the timing off a couple of degrees to stop the things pinging
>> killed them?
>
>Doesn't do anything for performance, that much is sure.

Don't recall the exact figure but by the time I parked it up it had
to be backed off considerably more than a couple of degrees to prevent
pinging which also shifted the intake vacuum enough to upset the
metering unit calibration.

I could've gone down the Weber path, which some TR owners did, but it
wasn't worth the expense for an already aging sedan and nor would I've
enjoyed the decreased performance. Milder cam would've been an even
bigger hassle as I don't think anyone in this country was ever set up
to recalibrate the metering units. Nor do I have any particular
interested in resurrecting machinery that's well past its practical
use by date although I do appreciate seeing the efforts of those who
do.

In spite of Noddy's lack of regard for anything more complicated than
an ancient F100 (or 1950s Triumph motorcycles) the Triumph PI was a
brilliant performer in its day and one of the greatest joys of owning
one was blowing knuckle draggers into weeds with what they perceived
to be a pommy shitbox. :)

--
John H

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

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From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 10:21:34 +1000
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 by: Noddy - Tue, 17 May 2022 00:21 UTC

On 17/05/2022 9:49 am, Daryl wrote:
> On 16/5/2022 10:03 pm, Noddy wrote:

>> Dunno, but in my books anything that comes out of a bottle that claims
>> it protects valves and guides, and enables old fashioned clearing of
>> fouled spark plugs isn't something I'd bother buying :)
>
> In the long run it would be cheaper to remove the head and modify to
> better suit unleaded fuel.

That's the only way to solve the problems associated with running
unleaded fuel in an engine without hardened valve seats, as there are no
"upper cylinder lubricant" solutions that will do what lead did.

>>> I also wonder if its possible to modify cars with old style
>>> mechanical injection to run a modern EFI system, maybe with some sort
>>> of adapter replace the old injectors with new type then an
>>> aftermarket ECU such as a Haltech, you would also need some sort of
>>> crank/cam position sensor plus lots of other wiring and fuel plumbing
>>> but I can't see why it wouldn't work.
>>
>> The only thing stopping it from working would be the amount of time
>> and money you were prepared to sink into it.
>>
>>> Plenty of old cars such as MB and Porsche run mechanical injection so
>>> I wasn't just thinking about the Triumph.
>>
>> You can get after-market kits to suit just about anything, or you can
>> make your own hybrid version. I don't think it'd be at all difficult.
>> The only question would be whether or not you wanted to.
>>
>
> Might be worth the effort on an old classic that was worth big money but
> then you might ruin the originality.
> I've seen what looked like side draft Webers on an old Jag engine that
> were actually something like the Holley Sniper EFI system so best of
> both worlds.

That's one possible solution. Crafting something that looks original.

An alternative is Toluene. It's been used for years as an anti knock
additive for high compression engines running "pump fuel", it's still
commonly available, is relatively cheap in large quantities and would
work fine with any of today's unleaded fuels.

There's also E85 and Premium 98 which will happily suit most classic
cars these days.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

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From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 10:36:42 +1000
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 by: Noddy - Tue, 17 May 2022 00:36 UTC

On 17/05/2022 10:07 am, John_H wrote:
> Xeno wrote:

> In spite of Noddy's lack of regard for anything more complicated than
> an ancient F100 (or 1950s Triumph motorcycles) the Triumph PI was a
> brilliant performer in its day and one of the greatest joys of owning
> one was blowing knuckle draggers into weeds with what they perceived
> to be a pommy shitbox. :)

ROTFL :)

And yet according to all the figures I can find anywhere, this was a car
that managed a zero to 60 time of 11 seconds, and 18.5 seconds over the
quarter mile. Wow. I can just imagine the endless stream of cars like
Austin 1800's and HB Toranas you blew into the weeds with something as
powerful as that :)

As I said, I think you like to talk shit up and make excuses for the
fact that your "Trumpy" was just another unreliable pommy shitbox like
the rest of them :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

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From: fel...@invalid.com (Yosemite Sam)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 10:55:41 +1000
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 by: Yosemite Sam - Tue, 17 May 2022 00:55 UTC

On 17/05/2022 10:36 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 17/05/2022 10:07 am, John_H wrote:
>> Xeno wrote:
>
>> In spite of Noddy's lack of regard for anything more complicated than
>> an ancient F100 (or 1950s Triumph motorcycles) the Triumph PI was a
>> brilliant performer in its day and one of the greatest joys of owning
>> one was blowing knuckle draggers into weeds with what they perceived
>> to be a pommy shitbox.  :)
>
> ROTFL :)
>
> And yet according to all the figures I can find anywhere, this was a
> car that managed a zero to 60 time of 11 seconds, and 18.5 seconds
> over the quarter mile. Wow. I can just imagine the endless stream of
> cars like Austin 1800's and HB Toranas you blew into the weeds with
> something as powerful as that :)
>
> As I said, I think you like to talk shit up and make excuses for the
> fact that your "Trumpy" was just another unreliable pommy shitbox like
> the rest of them :)
>
>
>

well you like to talk shit, thats for sure

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

Q:When is noddy not lying?
A:Anytime his lips aren't moving!

FUCK PUTIN!!

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

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From: fel...@invalid.com (Yosemite Sam)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
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 by: Yosemite Sam - Tue, 17 May 2022 01:09 UTC

On 17/05/2022 10:07 am, John_H wrote:
> Xeno wrote:
>> On 16/5/2022 8:37 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 16/05/2022 5:35 pm, John_H wrote:
>>>> Noddy wrote:
>> John also said the fuel RON rating went *down* in the 80s.
>>>>> Right. So what you're saying *now* is that retarded the timing and
>>>>> *that* caused the thing to not run properly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Seriously? Just exactly how temperamental *were* these things?
>>>> They were only temperamental for the ignorant dickheads who didn't
>>>> understand how the Lucas system operated... inlet vacuum being the
>>>> essential clue.
>>> So backing the timing off a couple of degrees to stop the things pinging
>>> killed them?
>> Doesn't do anything for performance, that much is sure.
> Don't recall the exact figure but by the time I parked it up it had
> to be backed off considerably more than a couple of degrees to prevent
> pinging which also shifted the intake vacuum enough to upset the
> metering unit calibration.
>
> I could've gone down the Weber path, which some TR owners did, but it
> wasn't worth the expense for an already aging sedan and nor would I've
> enjoyed the decreased performance. Milder cam would've been an even
> bigger hassle as I don't think anyone in this country was ever set up
> to recalibrate the metering units. Nor do I have any particular
> interested in resurrecting machinery that's well past its practical
> use by date although I do appreciate seeing the efforts of those who
> do.
>
> In spite of Noddy's lack of regard for anything more complicated than
> an ancient F100 (or 1950s Triumph motorcycles) the Triumph PI was a
> brilliant performer in its day and one of the greatest joys of owning
> one was blowing knuckle draggers into weeds with what they perceived
> to be a pommy shitbox. :)
>

I haven't been following the discussion. is this the car? if so he is
very impressed with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyBL2wq-AX8

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

Q:When is noddy not lying?
A:Anytime his lips aren't moving!

FUCK PUTIN!!

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

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From: alv...@is.invalid (alvey)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 11:34:25 +1000
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 by: alvey - Tue, 17 May 2022 01:34 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 10:36:42 +1000, Noddy wrote:

>
> As I said, I think you like to talk shit up and make excuses for the
> fact that your "Trumpy" was just another unreliable pommy shitbox like
> the rest of them :)

Lol!

That's something you do Fraudster! *Plus* you make up vast amount of shit
to try and big yourself. It's good that you're tremendously incompetent at
it, so many laughs...

alvey
"Just so all the Audi drivers can scream it out in frustration as I fill
their little heaps of gay shit with black smoke as I go past them [AS. In
the twits' tired old Navarra]". Fraudster, 05Jun17

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

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From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 11:40:23 +1000
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 by: Xeno - Tue, 17 May 2022 01:40 UTC

On 17/5/2022 10:07 am, John_H wrote:
> Xeno wrote:
>> On 16/5/2022 8:37 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 16/05/2022 5:35 pm, John_H wrote:
>>>> Noddy wrote:
>>
>> John also said the fuel RON rating went *down* in the 80s.
>>>
>>>>> Right. So what you're saying *now* is that retarded the timing and
>>>>> *that* caused the thing to not run properly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Seriously? Just exactly how temperamental *were* these things?
>>>>
>>>> They were only temperamental for the ignorant dickheads who didn't
>>>> understand how the Lucas system operated... inlet vacuum being the
>>>> essential clue.
>>>
>>> So backing the timing off a couple of degrees to stop the things pinging
>>> killed them?
>>
>> Doesn't do anything for performance, that much is sure.
>
> Don't recall the exact figure but by the time I parked it up it had
> to be backed off considerably more than a couple of degrees to prevent

Yeah, even my old Marinas pinged on Super petrol in the 80s and 90s.
They were, IIRC, about 9:1 on the E Series engine.

> pinging which also shifted the intake vacuum enough to upset the
> metering unit calibration.

I knew the metering unit would be sensitive to engine vacuum but I
didn't realise it would be *that* sensitive. So, if the engine became a
bit worn with a subsequent reduction in engine vacuum, you would also
run the calibration off sufficiently. That might explain why they
*seemingly* gave trouble when getting the kilometres up on them.
>
> I could've gone down the Weber path, which some TR owners did, but it
> wasn't worth the expense for an already aging sedan and nor would I've
> enjoyed the decreased performance. Milder cam would've been an even
> bigger hassle as I don't think anyone in this country was ever set up
> to recalibrate the metering units. Nor do I have any particular
> interested in resurrecting machinery that's well past its practical
> use by date although I do appreciate seeing the efforts of those who
> do.

Do you still have it?

I too don't like resurrecting cars that are past their use by date. I
just fix them enough to use them. When cars are your bread and butter,
they are much less likely to become your hobby and my hobbies definitely
didn't include restoring or hotting up cars. A Japanese girl, friend of
our daughter, was most impressed by one of my ancient Marinas. Remarked
that she had never before in her life sat in a car that was older than
her. ;-)
>
> In spite of Noddy's lack of regard for anything more complicated than
> an ancient F100 (or 1950s Triumph motorcycles) the Triumph PI was a
> brilliant performer in its day and one of the greatest joys of owning

Joe loves his and would, I daresay, agree wholeheartedly with you.

> one was blowing knuckle draggers into weeds with what they perceived
> to be a pommy shitbox. :)
>
I used to like the Pommy stuff, even with all their faults. That said,
most of my cars were tame performers, Hillman Minxes, Minis, Marinas and
the like. Weren't blowing too many knuckle draggers into the weeds with
those. Had 21 Marinas between 1982 and 1995, cheap, easily repaired and
they got us through the hard times when interest rates were 17.5%+ and
we were a tad overcommitted. Actually, I sent the last Marina off to the
wreckers probably around 97 or 98.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<jegcuhF4rmkU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 11:43:43 +1000
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In-Reply-To: <t5upqh$co0$1@dont-email.me>
 by: Xeno - Tue, 17 May 2022 01:43 UTC

On 17/5/2022 10:21 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 17/05/2022 9:49 am, Daryl wrote:
>> On 16/5/2022 10:03 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> Dunno, but in my books anything that comes out of a bottle that
>>> claims it protects valves and guides, and enables old fashioned
>>> clearing of fouled spark plugs isn't something I'd bother buying :)
>>
>> In the long run it would be cheaper to remove the head and modify to
>> better suit unleaded fuel.
>
> That's the only way to solve the problems associated with running
> unleaded fuel in an engine without hardened valve seats, as there are no
> "upper cylinder lubricant" solutions that will do what lead did.
>
An upper cylinder lubricant is designed to, well, lubricate the upper
cylinder and, hopefully, the valve guides. Not designed generally as an
octane enhancement unless it specifically states as much on the packaging.
>
>>>> I also wonder if its possible to modify cars with old style
>>>> mechanical injection to run a modern EFI system, maybe with some
>>>> sort of adapter replace the old injectors with new type then an
>>>> aftermarket ECU such as a Haltech, you would also need some sort of
>>>> crank/cam position sensor plus lots of other wiring and fuel
>>>> plumbing but I can't see why it wouldn't work.
>>>
>>> The only thing stopping it from working would be the amount of time
>>> and money you were prepared to sink into it.
>>>
>>>> Plenty of old cars such as MB and Porsche run mechanical injection
>>>> so I wasn't just thinking about the Triumph.
>>>
>>> You can get after-market kits to suit just about anything, or you can
>>> make your own hybrid version. I don't think it'd be at all difficult.
>>> The only question would be whether or not you wanted to.
>>>
>>
>> Might be worth the effort on an old classic that was worth big money
>> but then you might ruin the originality.
>> I've seen what looked like side draft Webers on an old Jag engine that
>> were actually something like the Holley Sniper EFI system so best of
>> both worlds.
>
> That's one possible solution. Crafting something that looks original.
>
> An alternative is Toluene. It's been used for years as an anti knock
> additive for high compression engines running "pump fuel", it's still
> commonly available, is relatively cheap in large quantities and would
> work fine with any of today's unleaded fuels.
>
> There's also E85 and Premium 98 which will happily suit most classic
> cars these days.

E85 does *not* suit classic cars. You should know this Darren, even with
having had an apprenticeship. Corrosion in the fuel system, remember?

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<jegd09F4rmkU2@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

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From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 11:44:41 +1000
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In-Reply-To: <jega3iF4a6rU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Xeno - Tue, 17 May 2022 01:44 UTC

On 17/5/2022 10:55 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 17/05/2022 10:36 am, Noddy wrote:
>> On 17/05/2022 10:07 am, John_H wrote:
>>> Xeno wrote:
>>
>>> In spite of Noddy's lack of regard for anything more complicated than
>>> an ancient F100 (or 1950s Triumph motorcycles) the Triumph PI was a
>>> brilliant performer in its day and one of the greatest joys of owning
>>> one was blowing knuckle draggers into weeds with what they perceived
>>> to be a pommy shitbox.  :)
>>
>> ROTFL :)
>>
>> And yet according to all the figures I can find anywhere, this was a
>> car that managed a zero to 60 time of 11 seconds, and 18.5 seconds
>> over the quarter mile. Wow. I can just imagine the endless stream of
>> cars like Austin 1800's and HB Toranas you blew into the weeds with
>> something as powerful as that :)
>>
>> As I said, I think you like to talk shit up and make excuses for the
>> fact that your "Trumpy" was just another unreliable pommy shitbox like
>> the rest of them :)
>>
>>
>>
>
> well you like to talk shit, thats for sure
>
>
Darren's the *shit master*. ;-)

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<jegd2nF4rmkU3@mid.individual.net>

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From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 11:45:59 +1000
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In-Reply-To: <jegasvF4g1oU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Xeno - Tue, 17 May 2022 01:45 UTC

On 17/5/2022 11:09 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 17/05/2022 10:07 am, John_H wrote:
>> Xeno wrote:
>>> On 16/5/2022 8:37 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>> On 16/05/2022 5:35 pm, John_H wrote:
>>>>> Noddy wrote:
>>> John also said the fuel RON rating went *down* in the 80s.
>>>>>> Right. So what you're saying *now* is that retarded the timing and
>>>>>> *that* caused the thing to not run properly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seriously? Just exactly how temperamental *were* these things?
>>>>> They were only temperamental for the ignorant dickheads who didn't
>>>>> understand how the Lucas system operated... inlet vacuum being the
>>>>> essential clue.
>>>> So backing the timing off a couple of degrees to stop the things
>>>> pinging
>>>> killed them?
>>> Doesn't do anything for performance, that much is sure.
>> Don't recall the exact figure but  by the time I parked it up it had
>> to be backed off considerably more than a couple of degrees to prevent
>> pinging which also shifted the intake vacuum enough to upset the
>> metering unit calibration.
>>
>> I could've gone down the Weber path, which some TR owners did, but it
>> wasn't worth the expense for an already aging sedan and nor would I've
>> enjoyed the decreased performance.  Milder cam would've been an even
>> bigger hassle as I don't think anyone in this country was ever set up
>> to recalibrate the metering units.  Nor do I have any particular
>> interested in resurrecting machinery that's well past its practical
>> use by date although I do appreciate seeing the efforts of those who
>> do.
>>
>> In spite of Noddy's lack of regard for anything more complicated than
>> an ancient F100 (or 1950s Triumph motorcycles) the Triumph PI was a
>> brilliant performer in its day and one of the greatest joys of owning
>> one was blowing knuckle draggers into weeds with what they perceived
>> to be a pommy shitbox.  :)
>>
>
> I haven't been following the discussion. is this the car? if so he is
> very impressed with it.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyBL2wq-AX8
>
>
He is indeed!

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<jegdocF500fU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: fel...@invalid.com (Yosemite Sam)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 11:57:57 +1000
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In-Reply-To: <jegco9F4qqiU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Yosemite Sam - Tue, 17 May 2022 01:57 UTC

On 17/05/2022 11:40 am, Xeno wrote:
> On 17/5/2022 10:07 am, John_H wrote:
>> Xeno wrote:
>>> On 16/5/2022 8:37 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>> On 16/05/2022 5:35 pm, John_H wrote:
>>>>> Noddy wrote:
>>>
>>> John also said the fuel RON rating went *down* in the 80s.
>>>>
>>>>>> Right. So what you're saying *now* is that retarded the timing and
>>>>>> *that* caused the thing to not run properly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seriously? Just exactly how temperamental *were* these things?
>>>>>
>>>>> They were only temperamental for the ignorant dickheads who didn't
>>>>> understand how the Lucas system operated... inlet vacuum being the
>>>>> essential clue.
>>>>
>>>> So backing the timing off a couple of degrees to stop the things
>>>> pinging
>>>> killed them?
>>>
>>> Doesn't do anything for performance, that much is sure.
>>
>> Don't recall the exact figure but  by the time I parked it up it had
>> to be backed off considerably more than a couple of degrees to prevent
>
> Yeah, even my old Marinas pinged on Super petrol in the 80s and 90s.
> They were, IIRC, about 9:1 on the E Series engine.
>
>> pinging which also shifted the intake vacuum enough to upset the
>> metering unit calibration.
>
> I knew the metering unit would be sensitive to engine vacuum but I
> didn't realise it would be *that* sensitive. So, if the engine became
> a bit worn with a subsequent reduction in engine vacuum, you would
> also run the calibration off sufficiently. That might explain why they
> *seemingly* gave trouble when getting the kilometres up on them.
>>
>> I could've gone down the Weber path, which some TR owners did, but it
>> wasn't worth the expense for an already aging sedan and nor would I've
>> enjoyed the decreased performance.  Milder cam would've been an even
>> bigger hassle as I don't think anyone in this country was ever set up
>> to recalibrate the metering units.  Nor do I have any particular
>> interested in resurrecting machinery that's well past its practical
>> use by date although I do appreciate seeing the efforts of those who
>> do.
>
> Do you still have it?
>
> I too don't like resurrecting cars that are past their use by date. I
> just fix them enough to use them. When cars are your bread and butter,
> they are much less likely to become your hobby and my hobbies
> definitely didn't include restoring or hotting up cars. A Japanese
> girl, friend of our daughter, was most impressed by one of my ancient
> Marinas. Remarked that she had never before in her life sat in a car
> that was older than her.  ;-)
>>
>> In spite of Noddy's lack of regard for anything more complicated than
>> an ancient F100 (or 1950s Triumph motorcycles) the Triumph PI was a
>> brilliant performer in its day and one of the greatest joys of owning
>
> Joe loves his and would, I daresay, agree wholeheartedly with you.
>
>> one was blowing knuckle draggers into weeds with what they perceived
>> to be a pommy shitbox.  :)
>>
> I used to like the Pommy stuff, even with all their faults. That said,
> most of my cars were tame performers, Hillman Minxes, Minis, Marinas
> and the like. Weren't blowing too many knuckle draggers into the weeds
> with those. Had 21 Marinas between 1982 and 1995, cheap, easily
> repaired and they got us through the hard times when interest rates
> were 17.5%+ and we were a tad overcommitted. Actually, I sent the last
> Marina off to the wreckers probably around 97 or 98.
>

our family car when I was growing up was a Hillman station wagon. it had
the gear shift on the steering column.

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

Q:When is noddy not lying?
A:Anytime his lips aren't moving!

FUCK PUTIN!!

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<jegds5F500fU2@mid.individual.net>

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From: fel...@invalid.com (Yosemite Sam)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 12:00:00 +1000
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In-Reply-To: <jegcuhF4rmkU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Yosemite Sam - Tue, 17 May 2022 02:00 UTC

On 17/05/2022 11:43 am, Xeno wrote:
> On 17/5/2022 10:21 am, Noddy wrote:
>> On 17/05/2022 9:49 am, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 16/5/2022 10:03 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>>> Dunno, but in my books anything that comes out of a bottle that
>>>> claims it protects valves and guides, and enables old fashioned
>>>> clearing of fouled spark plugs isn't something I'd bother buying :)
>>>
>>> In the long run it would be cheaper to remove the head and modify to
>>> better suit unleaded fuel.
>>
>> That's the only way to solve the problems associated with running
>> unleaded fuel in an engine without hardened valve seats, as there are
>> no "upper cylinder lubricant" solutions that will do what lead did.
>>
> An upper cylinder lubricant is designed to, well, lubricate the upper
> cylinder and, hopefully, the valve guides. Not designed generally as
> an octane enhancement unless it specifically states as much on the
> packaging.
>>
>>>>> I also wonder if its possible to modify cars with old style
>>>>> mechanical injection to run a modern EFI system, maybe with some
>>>>> sort of adapter replace the old injectors with new type then an
>>>>> aftermarket ECU such as a Haltech, you would also need some sort
>>>>> of crank/cam position sensor plus lots of other wiring and fuel
>>>>> plumbing but I can't see why it wouldn't work.
>>>>
>>>> The only thing stopping it from working would be the amount of time
>>>> and money you were prepared to sink into it.
>>>>
>>>>> Plenty of old cars such as MB and Porsche run mechanical injection
>>>>> so I wasn't just thinking about the Triumph.
>>>>
>>>> You can get after-market kits to suit just about anything, or you
>>>> can make your own hybrid version. I don't think it'd be at all
>>>> difficult. The only question would be whether or not you wanted to.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Might be worth the effort on an old classic that was worth big money
>>> but then you might ruin the originality.
>>> I've seen what looked like side draft Webers on an old Jag engine
>>> that were actually something like the Holley Sniper EFI system so
>>> best of both worlds.
>>
>> That's one possible solution. Crafting something that looks original.
>>
>> An alternative is Toluene. It's been used for years as an anti knock
>> additive for high compression engines running "pump fuel", it's still
>> commonly available, is relatively cheap in large quantities and would
>> work fine with any of today's unleaded fuels.
>>
>> There's also E85 and Premium 98 which will happily suit most classic
>> cars these days.
>
> E85 does *not* suit classic cars. You should know this Darren, even
> with having had an apprenticeship. Corrosion in the fuel system,
> remember?
>
>

even "without" having had an apprenticeship

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

Q:When is noddy not lying?
A:Anytime his lips aren't moving!

FUCK PUTIN!!

Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days

<19exl7pst5mzm.bncqm15baahp$.dlg@40tude.net>

 copy mid

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From: alv...@is.invalid (alvey)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: Had an interesting visitor the past few days
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 12:59:35 +1000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: alvey - Tue, 17 May 2022 02:59 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 10:36:42 +1000, Noddy wrote:

> And yet according to all the figures I can find anywhere, this was a car
> that managed a zero to 60 time of 11 seconds, and 18.5 seconds over the
> quarter mile.

Speaking of old & slow things, (not Fraudster, a car), I'm restoring and
colourising a friend's family album of 1950s photos. In it there's a couple
of pix of a stylish little two seater sports car which I've identified as
(probably) a Morgan 4/4 Series 1. Don't know what year, suspect the early
1950s, and what a beast! Top speed of 75mph and a 0-60mph time of a
blistering 26s. I wonder if this is the slowest post 1945 'sports' car?

alvey

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