Retirement means we have no excuse for not getting on with all the jobs
that have been put off for years. This is likely to be the next one.

Many years ago greenhouses came in high-maintenance wood or flimsy
aluminium. Our wooden one didn't get the maintenance and is now derelict
and it is high time I replaced it. Are there other or better options
nowadays? A quick google suggests not, but that there are an infinite
range of prices! Can anyone suggest a wind resistant make that I should
look at?

Am I likely to find a supplier who will do the base as well? It had
better have a solid floor this time. The last one had un-mortared quarry
tiles, on sand, on I-forget-what. Alpine strawberries like growing there
as well as the weeds.

Is glass still better than the available plastics for glazing? (yes, it
really is a long time since the last one was built!) If not what product
names should I expect to prefer or avoid?

All advice will be welcome, thank you.

On 22/09/2021 22:38, tahiri wrote:
> Retirement means we have no excuse for not getting on with all the jobs
> that have been put off for years. This is likely to be the next one.
>
> Many years ago greenhouses came in high-maintenance wood or flimsy
> aluminium. Our wooden one didn't get the maintenance and is now derelict
> and it is high time I replaced it. Are there other or better options
> nowadays? A quick google suggests not, but that there are an infinite
> range of prices! Can anyone suggest a wind resistant make that I should
> look at?
>
> Am I likely to find a supplier who will do the base as well? It had
> better have a solid floor this time. The last one had un-mortared quarry
> tiles, on sand, on I-forget-what. Alpine strawberries like growing there
> as well as the weeds.
>
> Is glass still better than the available plastics for glazing? (yes, it
> really is a long time since the last one was built!) If not what product
> names should I expect to prefer or avoid?
>
> All advice will be welcome, thank you.

I got my Halls Magnum 9 years ago from
<https://www.swgreenhouses.co.uk/>. The greenhouse and supply and
erection by SWG were first class. The single-course brick base was done
by a local builder. Go for toughened glass all round, including the
roof. I have twice had the same large roof panel at one end "sucked" out
by unusual wind eddies and deposited on the lawn some metres away. If it
hadn't been made of toughened glass I hate to think how long the
clean-up would have taken. I've now doubled the number of roof clips on
that panel, and the conifer hedge responsible for the eddies was removed
five years ago. There's been no trouble since, and it has withstood
gale-force winds without problem.

At the other end of the scale I had a small Norfolk plastic-glazed
greenhouse for several years in a sheltered position. It was ok, the
most annoying thing being the built-up of algae in the twin-walled
polycarbonate roofing panels. It seemed to get in no matter how well
sealed the ends were. It was this sort of greenhouse:
<https://www.argos.co.uk/product/7050826?clickSR=slp:term:norfolk%20greenhouses:2:16:1>

Take time to decide what you want to do in the greenhouse, and why you
want to do it. Then you can start deciding on the materials and size. Is
it going to have an electric supply? That's going to be a considerable
extra expense, and if you're going to heat it throughout winter, you
might like to consider what your electric bill might be - but take a
large tranquilliser beforehand! What about a water supply? Are you
considering mist propagation for example? You'll be shocked at how the
costs will add up.

--

Jeff

tahiri wrote:

> Is glass still better than the available plastics for glazing?

I would assume so, unless you happen to be getting a bit wobbly on your feet, in
which case, do you really want thin glass in all directions around you?

On 23/09/2021 08:51, Andy Burns wrote:
> tahiri wrote:
>
>> Is glass still better than the available plastics for glazing?
>
> I would assume so, unless you happen to be getting a bit wobbly on your feet, in
> which case, do you really want thin glass in all directions around you?

Hence my comment about toughened glass.

--

Jeff

On 22/09/2021 22:38, tahiri wrote:
>
> Is glass still better than the available plastics for glazing? (yes, it
> really is a long time since the last one was built!) If not what product
> names should I expect to prefer or avoid?
>
> All advice will be welcome, thank you.

First things first -
What sort of things are you intending to grow?
Will you be heating it in the winter?
What sort of size are you looking for?

I'm in the market myself for a 20'x10' greenhouse that will need to
survive North Yorkshire storms. The last one didn't although it was hit
by a piece of corrugated iron sheet ripped off a pig shed (unlucky).

If you are heating it in winter and don't care about seeing into it then
the dual skin polycarbonate sheet is quite a decent choice (but not
often offered in any of the kits). More sort of DIY for enthusiasts.

Glass offers a lot more rigidity but is also brittle so if things are
flying about in a storm you may need to make running repairs. Once wind
gusts can get inside the structure all bets are off. And it isn't safe
to approach one when a storm is lifting panes of glass out into the air.

Unheated I would probably go for glass provided there are no small
children running around (even then glass and chicken wire works OK).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

>> All advice will be welcome, thank you.
>
> First things first -
> What sort of things are you intending to grow?
> Will you be heating it in the winter?
> What sort of size are you looking for?
>
> I'm in the market myself for a 20'x10' greenhouse that will need to
> survive North Yorkshire storms. The last one didn't although it was hit
> by a piece of corrugated iron sheet ripped off a pig shed (unlucky).
>
> If you are heating it in winter and don't care about seeing into it then
> the dual skin polycarbonate sheet is quite a decent choice (but not
> often offered in any of the kits). More sort of DIY for enthusiasts.
>
> Glass offers a lot more rigidity but is also brittle so if things are
> flying about in a storm you may need to make running repairs. Once wind
> gusts can get inside the structure all bets are off. And it isn't safe
> to approach one when a storm is lifting panes of glass out into the air.
>
> Unheated I would probably go for glass provided there are no small
> children running around (even then glass and chicken wire works OK).
>
Right, I have read the comments made by all three of you and looked at
the website Jeff linked to.

The glazing options seem to boil down to- fragile glass, toughened
glass, flimsy polycarbonate or semi opaque twin walled polycarbonate. I
am not clear if all of these use glazing clips? Putty fastens the whole
length of a pane not just here and there - doesn't anyone use it
anymore? Oh wait, I got misled here, I see 'clips' can mean quite long
pieces. Toughened glass seems likely then, if I don't get persuaded
otherwise. I take it replacement pieces are easy to get if wind damage
happens?

I wasn't planning on electricity or water as there are both in the
garage nearby if I need them. I see you can incorporate a shed/potting
shed as part of a greenhouse, which is a tempting idea, but they are all
wooden and I am getting earache on the topic of maintenance so it looks
like it will have to be aluminium.

The doors on aluminium greenhouses all seem to be sliding. How reliable
are the sliding doors in real gardens? (rather than the perfectly
manicured ones in adverts!) Do the runners jam or the doors jump out of
them? Do you have to keep cleaning out the runners?

What I will use it for is difficult as 'what would be nice' and 'what I
am actually likely to do' are probably very different. There is a black
hamburg grape vine in the derelict one and I am probably going to let it
go.(far too vigorous, thick skins and far too many large pips.) Self
sown seedlings that I find in the garden and pot up will certainly be in
there, temporarily or otherwise. As will trays of seeds I expect, (and
anything that needs serious protection from the occasional damn sheep!).
I may also go back to growing a few tomatoes. There is no point going
overboard on vegetables because there is only me that eats them in our
household.

I meant to check the size of the existing one. Without looking I would
guess it is about eight foot by twelve foot or possibly bigger? Without
the grape vine across the middle anymore that might seem large, but
better too much space than too little. Martin's 20' x 10' sounds lovely
but definitely too much for me.

I am getting enthusiastic now. I wonder if I could have it ready by
spring? The base will be the sticking point since it is so hard to get
builders to do anything these days.

On 23/09/2021 21:25, tahiri wrote:
>
>>> All advice will be welcome, thank you.
>>
>> First things first -
>> What sort of things are you intending to grow?
>> Will you be heating it in the winter?
>> What sort of size are you looking for?
>>
>> I'm in the market myself for a 20'x10' greenhouse that will need to
>> survive North Yorkshire storms. The last one didn't although it was hit
>> by a piece of corrugated iron sheet ripped off a pig shed (unlucky).
>>
>> If you are heating it in winter and don't care about seeing into it then
>> the dual skin polycarbonate sheet is quite a decent choice (but not
>> often offered in any of the kits). More sort of DIY for enthusiasts.
>>
>> Glass offers a lot more rigidity but is also brittle so if things are
>> flying about in a storm you may need to make running repairs. Once wind
>> gusts can get inside the structure all bets are off. And it isn't safe
>> to approach one when a storm is lifting panes of glass out into the air.
>>
>> Unheated I would probably go for glass provided there are no small
>> children running around (even then glass and chicken wire works OK).
>>
> Right, I have read the comments made by all three of you and looked at
> the website Jeff linked to.
>
> The glazing options seem to boil down to- fragile glass, toughened
> glass, flimsy polycarbonate or semi opaque twin walled polycarbonate. I
> am not clear if all of these use glazing clips? Putty fastens the whole
> length of a pane not just here and there - doesn't anyone use it
> anymore? Oh wait, I got misled here, I see 'clips' can mean quite long
> pieces. Toughened glass seems likely then, if I don't get persuaded
> otherwise. I take it replacement pieces are easy to get if wind damage
> happens?

If you have a glazier nearby they will be able to supply toughened glass
panels to order if any get broken (it is not easy to break toughened
glass). Just give them the size and thickness of the panel (usually 4mm).

The clips can be of two types - flat spring steel or thick wire type
spring steel. Both can be stainless. Spares are available from garden
centres.

> I wasn't planning on electricity or water as there are both in the
> garage nearby if I need them. I see you can incorporate a shed/potting
> shed as part of a greenhouse, which is a tempting idea, but they are all
> wooden and I am getting earache on the topic of maintenance so it looks
> like it will have to be aluminium.

I guess you could make something out of tanalised wood and that should
last well.

> The doors on aluminium greenhouses all seem to be sliding. How reliable
> are the sliding doors in real gardens? (rather than the perfectly
> manicured ones in adverts!) Do the runners jam or the doors jump out of
> them? Do you have to keep cleaning out the runners?

You can brush or just hose out the door channels now and again. I've had
a slight issue with the aluminium doors sticking, but that wasn't the
fault of the greenhouse. Tree roots got under the concrete footings and
pushed them up enough to crack the mortar between the bricks. That was
just where the doors slid open; I used some coarse sandpaper to remove a
fraction of a mm of aluminium to allow the doors to open smoothly again.
Other than that the doors have been ok. I have had to replace the
sliding rubber seal once.

> What I will use it for is difficult as 'what would be nice' and 'what I
> am actually likely to do' are probably very different. There is a black
> hamburg grape vine in the derelict one and I am probably going to let it
> go.(far too vigorous, thick skins and far too many large pips.) Self
> sown seedlings that I find in the garden and pot up will certainly be in
> there, temporarily or otherwise. As will trays of seeds I expect, (and
> anything that needs serious protection from the occasional damn sheep!).
> I may also go back to growing a few tomatoes. There is no point going
> overboard on vegetables because there is only me that eats them in our
> household.
>
> I meant to check the size of the existing one. Without looking I would
> guess it is about eight foot by twelve foot or possibly bigger? Without
> the grape vine across the middle anymore that might seem large, but
> better too much space than too little. Martin's 20' x 10' sounds lovely
> but definitely too much for me.

Mine is 8 x 14 ft. Bear in mind that whatever size you choose your
greenhouse will always be too small in a couple of years!

> I am getting enthusiastic now. I wonder if I could have it ready by
> spring? The base will be the sticking point since it is so hard to get
> builders to do anything these days.

Halls sell bases to fit their greenhouses. See, for example, "Halls
Base" about a quarter of the way down the page here:
<https://www.swgreenhouses.co.uk/hallsmagnumgreenhouse/8-x-14-halls-silver-aluminium-magnum.html>
That base wasn't available when my greenhouse went up; there was a much
lighter base which screwed to the bricks, and the greenhouse was held by
brackets to it.

--

Jeff

On 23/09/2021 21:25, tahiri wrote:
>
> The glazing options seem to boil down to- fragile glass, toughened
> glass, flimsy polycarbonate or semi opaque twin walled polycarbonate. I
> am not clear if all of these use glazing clips? Putty fastens the whole
> length of a pane not just here and there - doesn't anyone use it
> anymore? Oh wait, I got misled here, I see 'clips' can mean quite long
> pieces. Toughened glass seems likely then, if I don't get persuaded
> otherwise. I take it replacement pieces are easy to get if wind damage
> happens?

It is as well to keep a couple of spares handy. And if the greenhouse is
heated with tender plants inside it a piece of polycarbonate pre drilled
with a baton on the back for an immediate temporary repair.

> The doors on aluminium greenhouses all seem to be sliding. How reliable
> are the sliding doors in real gardens? (rather than the perfectly
> manicured ones in adverts!) Do the runners jam or the doors jump out of
> them? Do you have to keep cleaning out the runners?

Mine were hung from the top rail and sat in the lower one as a guide.
It needed oiling once a year but never caused any trouble. In a violent
storm the doors can potentially spring out of their tracks if wind gets
inside the structure. That happened to mine during its catastrophic
failure but it was in winds gusting to 100mph.

With hindsight I should probably have put something heavy against the
base of the (double) doors to avoid this happening. I have automatic
roof vents and lock them down for winter storms too.

> What I will use it for is difficult as 'what would be nice' and 'what I
> am actually likely to do' are probably very different. There is a black
> hamburg grape vine in the derelict one and I am probably going to let it
> go.(far too vigorous, thick skins and far too many large pips.) Self
> sown seedlings that I find in the garden and pot up will certainly be in
> there, temporarily or otherwise. As will trays of seeds I expect, (and
> anything that needs serious protection from the occasional damn sheep!).
> I may also go back to growing a few tomatoes. There is no point going
> overboard on vegetables because there is only me that eats them in our
> household.
>
> I meant to check the size of the existing one. Without looking I would
> guess it is about eight foot by twelve foot or possibly bigger? Without
> the grape vine across the middle anymore that might seem large, but

Plant collections tend to expand to fill the space available.

> I am getting enthusiastic now. I wonder if I could have it ready by
> spring? The base will be the sticking point since it is so hard to get
> builders to do anything these days.

When you erect it choose a day that is flat calm with no wind expected
for the following day. The structure is at its most vulnerable to wind
damage when partially assembled (or when there is a big hole in the side
facing into the wind). Clips can only work up to a point. BTW most of
the better ones have a silicone sealing strip that the glass beds onto.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 23/09/2021 08:23, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 22/09/2021 22:38, tahiri wrote:
>> Retirement means we have no excuse for not getting on with all the jobs
>> that have been put off for years. This is likely to be the next one.
>>
>> Many years ago greenhouses came in high-maintenance wood or flimsy
>> aluminium. Our wooden one didn't get the maintenance and is now derelict
>> and it is high time I replaced it. Are there other or better options
>> nowadays? A quick google suggests not, but that there are an infinite
>> range of prices! Can anyone suggest a wind resistant make that I should
>> look at?
>>
>> Am I likely to find a supplier who will do the base as well? It had
>> better have a solid floor this time. The last one had un-mortared quarry
>> tiles, on sand, on I-forget-what. Alpine strawberries like growing there
>> as well as the weeds.
>>
>> Is glass still better than the available plastics for glazing? (yes, it
>> really is a long time since the last one was built!) If not what product
>> names should I expect to prefer or avoid?
>>
>> All advice will be welcome, thank you.
>
> I got my Halls Magnum 9 years ago from
> <https://www.swgreenhouses.co.uk/>. The greenhouse and supply and
> erection by SWG were first class. The single-course brick base was done
> by a local builder. Go for toughened glass all round, including the
> roof. I have twice had the same large roof panel at one end "sucked" out
> by unusual wind eddies and deposited on the lawn some metres away. If it
> hadn't been made of toughened glass I hate to think how long the
> clean-up would have taken. I've now doubled the number of roof clips on
> that panel, and the conifer hedge responsible for the eddies was removed
> five years ago. There's been no trouble since, and it has withstood
> gale-force winds without problem.
>
> At the other end of the scale I had a small Norfolk plastic-glazed
> greenhouse for several years in a sheltered position. It was ok, the
> most annoying thing being the built-up of algae in the twin-walled
> polycarbonate roofing panels. It seemed to get in no matter how well
> sealed the ends were. It was this sort of greenhouse:
> <https://www.argos.co.uk/product/7050826?clickSR=slp:term:norfolk%20greenhouses:2:16:1>
>
>
> Take time to decide what you want to do in the greenhouse, and why you
> want to do it. Then you can start deciding on the materials and size. Is
> it going to have an electric supply? That's going to be a considerable
> extra expense, and if you're going to heat it throughout winter, you
> might like to consider what your electric bill might be - but take a
> large tranquilliser beforehand! What about a water supply? Are you
> considering mist propagation for example? You'll be shocked at how the
> costs will add up.
>
I have 4 x Halls magnum 14 x 8 (you can never have one that is too big!(
reason for liking these is their robustness and nice big sliding doors
plus 4 vents as standard

--
Charlie Pridham
Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk

tahiri wrote:

>Am I likely to find a supplier who will do the base as well? It had
>better have a solid floor this time. The last one had un-mortared quarry
>tiles, on sand, on I-forget-what. Alpine strawberries like growing there
>as well as the weeds.

My dad, who grew tomatoes and then brought chrysanthemums in
during the autumn, had soil beds in his greenhouse, so I followed
suit. He suggested that if you built a dwarf wall, it had little
impact on light, but gave you useful extra headroom.

My first had about 5 courses of bricks on a bit of concrete
foundation.

I moved house with it, and simplified the job with 2 courses of
concrete blocks. I moved again and left it behind, but 36 years
on, it is still visible on Google maps.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

>> The doors on aluminium greenhouses all seem to be sliding. How
>> reliable are the sliding doors in real gardens? (rather than the
>> perfectly manicured ones in adverts!) Do the runners jam or the doors
>> jump out of them? Do you have to keep cleaning out the runners?
>
> Mine were hung from the top rail and sat in the lower one as a guide.
> It needed oiling once a year but never caused any trouble. In a violent
> storm the doors can potentially spring out of their tracks if wind gets
> inside the structure. That happened to mine during its catastrophic
> failure but it was in winds gusting to 100mph.
>
> With hindsight I should probably have put something heavy against the
> base of the (double) doors to avoid this happening. I have automatic
> roof vents and lock them down for winter storms too.

Useful tip. Thank you.

> When you erect it choose a day that is flat calm with no wind expected
> for the following day. The structure is at its most vulnerable to wind
> damage when partially assembled (or when there is a big hole in the side
> facing into the wind). Clips can only work up to a point. BTW  most of
> the better ones have a silicone sealing strip that the glass beds onto.
>
>

Here in North Wales a 'flat calm day' is normally as rare as hen's
teeth, although there have been a few this year. I wouldn't expect many
up your way either!

> My dad, who grew tomatoes and then brought chrysanthemums in
> during the autumn, had soil beds in his greenhouse, so I followed
> suit. He suggested that if you built a dwarf wall, it had little
> impact on light, but gave you useful extra headroom.
>
> My first had about 5 courses of bricks on a bit of concrete
> foundation.
>
> I moved house with it, and simplified the job with 2 courses of
> concrete blocks. I moved again and left it behind, but 36 years
> on, it is still visible on Google maps.
>
> Chris
>

Yes, glass at ground level is a bit of a waste. The old one had wooden
tongue and groove panels at the bottom. (which rotted of course) Brick
would have been better and looked nicer but then I would probably still
have been waiting for it to be built!

snip
>>
> I have 4 x Halls magnum 14 x 8 (you can never have one that is too big!(
> reason for liking these is their robustness and nice big sliding doors
> plus 4 vents as standard
>

Do either of you have the louvred side vents that Halls offer? I am
wondering how much the local wildlife would pass through them? Mice,
squirrels, etc.? (moles?)

On 24/09/2021 22:49, tahiri wrote:
> snip
>>>
>> I have 4 x Halls magnum 14 x 8 (you can never have one that is too big!(
>> reason for liking these is their robustness and nice big sliding doors
>> plus 4 vents as standard
>>
>
> Do either of you have the louvred side vents that Halls offer? I am
> wondering how much the local wildlife would pass through them? Mice,
> squirrels, etc.? (moles?)

Mine has a set of louvred vents at the end opposite the door. They are
open throughout in warm weather - as are the doors! Anything can get in
but as I don't grow anything edible it doesn't seem to be a problem, The
louvred vents and doors are closed throughout winter.

FYI the automatic roof vents have proved very reliable; all four are
still working well. I see that Halls now also do an automatic opener for
the louvre.

--

Jeff

On 24/09/2021 22:49, tahiri wrote:
> snip
>>>
>> I have 4 x Halls magnum 14 x 8 (you can never have one that is too
>> big!( reason for liking these is their robustness and nice big sliding
>> doors plus 4 vents as standard
>>
>
> Do either of you have the louvred side vents that Halls offer? I am
> wondering how much the local wildlife would pass through them? Mice,
> squirrels, etc.? (moles?)

Yes. Never had problems with squirrels getting in and plenty round here.
Side louvre vents are very useful for airflow in a larger greenhouse. I
would recommend them so you get a flow of cooler air drawn through.

Mice, voles, moles and slugs will get through the tiniest gaps though.
The doors are the weak point. I grow daturas in the greenhouse for their
flowers and the natural rodenticide that their copious seeds represent.
They are moderately seriously poisonous so not suitable near children.
The flowers smell divine but the plant material if bruised smell horrid.

(like Castor oil plants you do see them bedded out in France)

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 08:41:56 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
> I grow daturas in the greenhouse for their
>flowers and the natural rodenticide that their copious seeds represent.
>They are moderately seriously poisonous so not suitable near children.
>The flowers smell divine but the plant material if bruised smell horrid.
>
>(like Castor oil plants you do see them bedded out in France)

And outside in West Cornwall. There used to be one in the Trewin
Gardens in St. Ives, but several decades ago the council took it out
because the local youth were said to be experimenting with it. I
believe some parts have narcotic properties. Datura tea, anyone? I am
trying a Brugmansia (was Datura) Sanguinea outside to see what
happens, but I have a couple of spares for the conservatory in case of
a hard winter.

--
Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall, very mild, sheltered
from the West, but open to the North and East.

In message <toWdnW2te7Evf9H8nZ2dnUU78IfNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, tahiri
<tahiri2@tanygraig.force9.co.uk> writes
>
>The glazing options seem to boil down to- fragile glass, toughened
>glass, flimsy polycarbonate or semi opaque twin walled polycarbonate. I
>am not clear if all of these use glazing clips? Putty fastens the whole
>length of a pane not just here and there - doesn't anyone use it anymore?

My greenhouse was here when we bought the house 20 years ago, and it was
ancient then. Galvanised iron rather than aluminium, 10 feet wide, 12
deep, with the long sides slightly splayed. All of the original glass,
3mm plain (not toughened, laminated etc.) was bedded with putty and
whilst that forms a good seal, removing old putty when a pane breaks is
a real pain (!) as the putty is now hard as a rock, and has to be slowly
chipped away.

Where panes in the roof have broken, I tend to overlay rather than
replace, with twin wall poly, as I don't have faith in the poly to
resist the weight of snow (Aberdeenshire).

Side and end wall panes have been replaced with anything to hand -
glass, twin wall poly and cheap single poly. One problem here is that
snow on the roof which freezes then slides off as blocks of ice which
catch and break the bottom panes in the long walls, which are splayed
such that the edge of the roof is directly over the bottom of the wall.

The door is sliding, and works well. I have a gallon (yes, it is that
old) of cheap supermarket engine oil which I would not trust in a car,
but is fine to lubricate garden stuff including the greenhouse door,
wheelbarrow wheel, shed and garden gate hinges etc.

The galvanising has lasted very well, although there is some rusting
along the bottom of the walls, where they sit on a concrete slab, which
means that area is wet until rain drains away or evaporates. Rain does
tend to seep in, in places, but not enough to worry about.

Inside, there are shelves against one long wall and the end wall, being
good, old fashioned Dexion, like Meccano for big boys, and that works
very well too. Suitably braced, it is solid.

--
Graeme

On 25/09/2021 12:28, Graeme wrote:
>
> My greenhouse was here when we bought the house 20 years ago, and it was
> ancient then.  Galvanised iron rather than aluminium, 10 feet wide, 12
> deep, with the long sides slightly splayed.  All of the original glass,
> 3mm plain (not toughened, laminated etc.) was bedded with putty and
> whilst that forms a good seal, removing old putty when a pane breaks is
> a real pain (!) as the putty is now hard as a rock, and has to be slowly
> chipped away.

Warm it up with a blowtorch or hot air gun first. It does not need to be
that hot, the putty softens marvellously.

In message <sin31u$ris$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Chris Bacon
<chris.p.bacon@maildrop.cc> writes
>On 25/09/2021 12:28, Graeme wrote:

>>removing old putty when a pane breaks is a real pain (!) as the putty
>>is now hard as a rock, and has to be slowly chipped away.
>
>Warm it up with a blowtorch or hot air gun first. It does not need to
>be that hot, the putty softens marvellously.

Ah! Thank you.

--
Graeme

On 25/09/2021 10:20, Chris Hogg wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 08:41:56 +0100, Martin Brown
> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>> I grow daturas in the greenhouse for their
>> flowers and the natural rodenticide that their copious seeds represent.
>> They are moderately seriously poisonous so not suitable near children.
>> The flowers smell divine but the plant material if bruised smell horrid.
>>
>> (like Castor oil plants you do see them bedded out in France)
>
> And outside in West Cornwall. There used to be one in the Trewin
> Gardens in St. Ives, but several decades ago the council took it out
> because the local youth were said to be experimenting with it. I
> believe some parts have narcotic properties. Datura tea, anyone? I am
> trying a Brugmansia (was Datura) Sanguinea outside to see what
> happens, but I have a couple of spares for the conservatory in case of
> a hard winter.

I have had them survive a few milder winters outside up here in North
Yorkshire and I occasionality get the odd volunteer seedling. They come
back from the roots in spring if you are lucky. I mulch in late autumn.

If they set seed you will always have plenty of seeds for ever more.

Several years in a row antirrhinums have survived the winter here in
flower. I would never have guessed that the next season they continue to
grow up from the green tops of the previous years flower spikes!

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Regards,
Martin Brown