last test was apparently the first time an opener
from each side was last out in the first innings at
lords test, i think i heard some bbc guru maybe the
saltyman. I assume it was just lords cos surely
in all the tests since ever it must have happened
before.

mike

On 07/06/2021 20:55, mike wrote:
> last test was apparently the first time an opener
> from each side was last out in the first innings at
> lords test, i think i heard some bbc guru maybe the
> saltyman. I assume it was just lords cos surely
> in all the tests since ever it must have happened
> before.

I think Zaltzman said that it was the first time that an opener on each
side had been last out in any innings of the same Test anywhere. IIRC,
he said that the only time an opener had been last out in two innings of
a Test previously was when Des Haynes did it in both innings at Dunedin
in 1979/80, making 55 out of 140 and 105 out of 212.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/west-indies-tour-of-new-zealand-1979-80-61929/new-zealand-vs-west-indies-1st-test-63259/full-scorecard

It's not really surprising that it hasn't happened before. There have
been 56 instances of a batsman carrying his bat through a completed Test
innings (Haynes was also the first to do that 3 times), and that has
never happened twice in the same Test. I could not find a list of
openers who had been last out, but it seems likely that there would be
fewer of those, as if an opener is batting with a #11, the #11 is
probably more likely to be the one to be dismissed (despite the fact
that the opener is likely to farm the strike and take more risks than
usual).

There was some discussion about players being on the field throughout a
Test, and Zaltzman said that Haynes presumably was at Dunedin. No so
according to the Wisden Book of Test Cricket, which says that he did not
field in NZ's 2nd innings, thereby missing becoming the first West
Indian to be on the field throughout a Test.

--
David North

On 11/06/2021 10:30, David North wrote:
> On 07/06/2021 20:55, mike wrote:
>> last test was apparently the first time an opener
>> from each side was last out in the first innings at
>> lords test, i think i heard some bbc guru maybe the
>> saltyman. I assume it was just lords cos surely
>> in all the tests since ever it must have happened
>> before.
>
> I think Zaltzman said that it was the first time that an opener on each
> side had been last out in any innings of the same Test anywhere. IIRC,
> he said that the only time an opener had been last out in two innings of
> a Test previously was when Des Haynes did it in both innings at Dunedin
> in 1979/80, making 55 out of 140 and 105 out of 212.
>
> https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/west-indies-tour-of-new-zealand-1979-80-61929/new-zealand-vs-west-indies-1st-test-63259/full-scorecard
>
>
> It's not really surprising that it hasn't happened before. There have
> been 56 instances of a batsman carrying his bat through a completed Test
> innings (Haynes was also the first to do that 3 times), and that has
> never happened twice in the same Test.

I meant to post a link for that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cricketers_who_have_carried_the_bat_in_international_cricket

--
David North

On 07/06/2021 20:55, mike wrote:

> last test was apparently the first time an opener
> from each side was last out in the first innings at
> lords test, i think i heard some bbc guru maybe the
> saltyman. I assume it was just lords cos surely
> in all the tests since ever it must have happened
> before.

I'm reasonably certain that only one opening batsman had
been the last man dismissed before WW2.

Test #79, Aus vs Eng, Melbourne, 1903/04.

<https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-marylebone-cricket-club-tour-of-australia-1903-04-61702/australia-vs-england-2nd-test-62474/full-scorecard>

Aus 1st Inns, Victor Trumper.

Last man dismissed means the 10th batsman - doesn't include any
Inns where one or more batsmen were absent.

On 11/06/2021 14:50, Brian Lawrence wrote:
> On 07/06/2021 20:55, mike wrote:
>
>> last test was apparently the first time an opener
>> from each side was last out in the first innings at
>> lords test, i think i heard some bbc guru maybe the
>> saltyman. I assume it was just lords cos surely
>> in all the tests since ever it must have happened
>> before.
>
> I'm reasonably certain that only one opening batsman had
> been the last man dismissed before WW2.
>
> Test #79, Aus vs Eng, Melbourne, 1903/04.
>
>
> <https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-marylebone-cricket-club-tour-of-australia-1903-04-61702/australia-vs-england-2nd-test-62474/full-scorecard>
>
>
> Aus 1st Inns, Victor Trumper.

Most likely the second occurrence was:

<https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/australia-tour-of-england-1948-61329/england-vs-australia-5th-test-62689/full-scorecard>

Eng I1, 52 all out, last out Len Hutton (30).

On 11/06/2021 16:19, Brian Lawrence wrote:

Found a third one:

Arthur Morris Aus vs Eng Adelaide 1950/51

No others found before 1957. I'll keep checking when I have
time.

I've worked my way up to 2004 so far :-)

These are added to the 3 previously posted:

T576 Abdul Kadir Pak vs NZ Auckland 1964-65 58/207

T724 GM Turner NZ vs Eng Leeds 1973 81/173
T744 DL Amiss Eng vs Pak Oval 1974 183/545
T807 G Boycott Eng vs Aus Leeds 1977 191/436
T873 DL Haynes WI vs NZ Dunedin 1979/80 55/140 I1
T873 DL Haynes WI vs NZ Dunedin 1979/80 105/212 I2

T939 KC Wessels Aus vs Eng Brisbane 1982/83 162/341
T1010 Mudassar Nazar Pak vs NZ Auckland 1984/85 89/183
T1080 DL Haynes WI vs Ind Delhi 1987/88 45/127
T1102 GA Gooch Eng vs WI Oval 1988 84/202
T1111 JG Wright NZ vs Ind Hyderabad 1988/89 62/124

T1509 MA Atherton Eng vs WI Oval 2000 108/217
T1529 KC Sangakkara SL vs RSA Centurion 2000/01 98/252
T1539 ML Hayden Aus vs Ind Chennai 2000/01 203/391
T1716 ST Jayasuriya SL vs Pak Faisalabad 2004/05 253/438

Final column is batsman's score & team total.

Desmond Haynes did it in both innings of a match.

Wessels did so on debut.

Sangakkara did so in I2 as a substitute opener - Jayasuriya opened
with Atapattu in I1, but batted at #6 in I2.

Note that as far as I can see there were none during the 1990s.

On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 12:46:05 PM UTC+1, Brian Lawrence wrote:
> I've worked my way up to 2004 so far :-)
>
> These are added to the 3 previously posted:
>
> T576 Abdul Kadir Pak vs NZ Auckland 1964-65 58/207
>
> T724 GM Turner NZ vs Eng Leeds 1973 81/173
> T744 DL Amiss Eng vs Pak Oval 1974 183/545
> T807 G Boycott Eng vs Aus Leeds 1977 191/436
> T873 DL Haynes WI vs NZ Dunedin 1979/80 55/140 I1
> T873 DL Haynes WI vs NZ Dunedin 1979/80 105/212 I2
>
> T939 KC Wessels Aus vs Eng Brisbane 1982/83 162/341
> T1010 Mudassar Nazar Pak vs NZ Auckland 1984/85 89/183
> T1080 DL Haynes WI vs Ind Delhi 1987/88 45/127
> T1102 GA Gooch Eng vs WI Oval 1988 84/202
> T1111 JG Wright NZ vs Ind Hyderabad 1988/89 62/124
>
> T1509 MA Atherton Eng vs WI Oval 2000 108/217
> T1529 KC Sangakkara SL vs RSA Centurion 2000/01 98/252
> T1539 ML Hayden Aus vs Ind Chennai 2000/01 203/391
> T1716 ST Jayasuriya SL vs Pak Faisalabad 2004/05 253/438

I remember watching [on tv] Boycott in 1977 [his 100th FC 100], wessels [on debut] in 82
Gooch [his 1st as captain i think] and atherton in that very strange series where
after struggling for 4 tests against walsh and ambrose, he nearly hit a century in both innings.

mike

On 17/06/2021 21:03, mike wrote:
> I remember watching [on tv] Boycott in 1977 [his 100th FC 100], [...].

I don't remember that, but I did watch [live] every ball of the
Test a fortnight earlier when GB again scored a century; he had to, as
he could not have faced Derek Randall, who he blatantly ran out, or the
TB members had he got out any earlier. Notable also for ITB's successful
debut and for the ongoing shenanigans around Packer.

--
Andy Walker, Nottingham.
Andy's music pages: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music
Composer of the day: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music/Composers/Spindler

In message <sagdrv$u3g$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk>
writes
>On 17/06/2021 21:03, mike wrote:
>> I remember watching [on tv] Boycott in 1977 [his 100th FC 100], [...].
>
> I don't remember that, but I did watch [live] every ball of the
>Test a fortnight earlier when GB again scored a century; he had to, as
>he could not have faced Derek Randall, who he blatantly ran out, or the
>TB members had he got out any earlier. Notable also for ITB's successful
>debut and for the ongoing shenanigans around Packer.
>

ITB = Inside Trent Bridge. :)
--
John Hall "Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always
pays off now." Anon

On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 10:12:34 PM UTC+1, Andy Walker wrote:
> On 17/06/2021 21:03, mike wrote:
> > I remember watching [on tv] Boycott in 1977 [his 100th FC 100], [...].
>
> I don't remember that, but I did watch [live] every ball of the
> Test a fortnight earlier when GB again scored a century; he had to, as
> he could not have faced Derek Randall, who he blatantly ran out, or the
> TB members had he got out any earlier. Notable also for ITB's successful
> debut and for the ongoing shenanigans around Packer.
>
> --
> Andy Walker, Nottingham.
> Andy's music pages: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music
> Composer of the day: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music/Composers/Spindler

Note how Dr B-M does not say he was inside TB watching . If not the question arises could he as an matter of objective fact have watched every ball of a Boycott innings. It arises because BBC TV did not cover every moment of a Test. RH

On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 9:07:25 PM UTC+10, RH wrote:
> On Thursday, June 17, 2021 at 10:12:34 PM UTC+1, Andy Walker wrote:
> > On 17/06/2021 21:03, mike wrote:
> > > I remember watching [on tv] Boycott in 1977 [his 100th FC 100], [...].
> >
> > I don't remember that, but I did watch [live] every ball of the
> > Test a fortnight earlier when GB again scored a century; he had to, as
> > he could not have faced Derek Randall, who he blatantly ran out, or the
> > TB members had he got out any earlier. Notable also for ITB's successful
> > debut and for the ongoing shenanigans around Packer.
> >
> Note how Dr B-M does not say he was inside TB watching . If not the question arises could he as an matter of objective fact have watched every ball of a Boycott innings. It arises because BBC TV did not cover every moment of a Test. RH

Note how RH is a fuckwit who can't ever forget that Andy has repeatedly shown that RH is full of shit

On 17/06/2021 12:46, Brian Lawrence wrote:
> I've worked my way up to 2004 so far :-)
>
> These are added to the 3 previously posted:
>
> T576   Abdul Kadir     Pak vs NZ   Auckland     1964-65    58/207
>
> T724   GM Turner       NZ  vs Eng  Leeds        1973       81/173
> T744   DL Amiss        Eng vs Pak  Oval         1974      183/545
> T807   G Boycott       Eng vs Aus  Leeds        1977      191/436
> T873   DL Haynes       WI  vs NZ   Dunedin      1979/80    55/140  I1
> T873   DL Haynes       WI  vs NZ   Dunedin      1979/80   105/212  I2
>
> T939   KC Wessels      Aus vs Eng  Brisbane     1982/83   162/341
> T1010  Mudassar Nazar  Pak vs NZ   Auckland     1984/85    89/183
> T1080  DL Haynes       WI  vs Ind  Delhi        1987/88    45/127
> T1102  GA Gooch        Eng vs WI   Oval         1988       84/202
> T1111  JG Wright       NZ  vs Ind  Hyderabad    1988/89    62/124
>
> T1509  MA Atherton     Eng vs WI   Oval         2000      108/217
> T1529  KC Sangakkara   SL  vs RSA  Centurion    2000/01    98/252
> T1539  ML Hayden       Aus vs Ind  Chennai      2000/01   203/391
> T1716  ST Jayasuriya   SL  vs Pak  Faisalabad   2004/05   253/438

So 18 times up to 2004, compared to 41 times openers carried their bat
by then. Taking off 4 of the latter where not all 10 wickets fell, it
seems that the #11 is twice as likely to get out as the opener in such
partnerships.

> Final column is batsman's score & team total.
>
> Desmond Haynes did it in both innings of a match.
>
> Wessels did so on debut.
>
> Sangakkara did so in I2 as a substitute opener - Jayasuriya opened
> with Atapattu in I1, but batted at #6 in I2.
>
> Note that as far as I can see there were none during the 1990s.

.... but 12 cases of carrying the bat. Were the openers in the 1990s
particularly selfish, or the #11s particularly hopeless? ;)

--
David North

On 17/06/2021 12:46, Brian Lawrence wrote:

> I've worked my way up to 2004 so far :-)
>
> These are added to the 3 previously posted:
>
> T576   Abdul Kadir     Pak vs NZ   Auckland     1964-65    58/207
>
> T724   GM Turner       NZ  vs Eng  Leeds        1973       81/173
> T744   DL Amiss        Eng vs Pak  Oval         1974      183/545
> T807   G Boycott       Eng vs Aus  Leeds        1977      191/436
> T873   DL Haynes       WI  vs NZ   Dunedin      1979/80    55/140  I1
> T873   DL Haynes       WI  vs NZ   Dunedin      1979/80   105/212  I2
>
> T939   KC Wessels      Aus vs Eng  Brisbane     1982/83   162/341
> T1010  Mudassar Nazar  Pak vs NZ   Auckland     1984/85    89/183
> T1080  DL Haynes       WI  vs Ind  Delhi        1987/88    45/127
> T1102  GA Gooch        Eng vs WI   Oval         1988       84/202
> T1111  JG Wright       NZ  vs Ind  Hyderabad    1988/89    62/124
>
> T1509  MA Atherton     Eng vs WI   Oval         2000      108/217
> T1529  KC Sangakkara   SL  vs RSA  Centurion    2000/01    98/252
> T1539  ML Hayden       Aus vs Ind  Chennai      2000/01   203/391
> T1716  ST Jayasuriya   SL  vs Pak  Faisalabad   2004/05   253/438

T1716 ST Jayasuriya SL vs Pak Faisalabad 2004/05 253/438
T1726 JL Langer Aus vs Pak Perth 2004/05 191/381
T1786 WU Tharanga SL vs Ban Bogra 2005/06 165/316
T1803 MG Vandort SL vs Eng Birmingham 2006 105/231

T2062 G Gambhir Ind vs Eng Mumbai 2012/13 65/142
T2236 SC Cook RSA vs Aus Adelaide 2016/17 104/250

T2417 KC Brathwaite WI vs SL N Sound 2020/21 126/354
T2422 DP Conway NZ vs Eng Lord's 2021 200/378
T2422 RJ Burns Eng vs NZ Lord's 2021 132/275

This is a partial list of openers who were the 9th to be dismissed.

T16 Eng vs Aus Oval 1884 WH Scotton 90/332

T41 Aus vs Eng Manchester 1893 AC Bannerman 60/200

I started recording these in 1961, and have started checking the
intervening years. Still need to look at 1894-1960.

T521 Pak vs Eng Dacca 1961/62 Hanif Mohammad

T736 NZ vs Aus Auckland 1973/74 GM Turner
T738 WI vs Eng P of Spain 1973/74 LG Rowe
T745 WI vs Ind Bangalore 1974/75 RC Fredericks [rh]
T779 WI vs Eng Manchester 1976 CG Greenidge

T912 Ind vs Eng Bangalore 1981/82 SM Gavaskar
T926 NZ vs Aus Christchurch 1981/82 JG Wright
T993 WI vs Eng Oval 1984 DL Haynes
T1083 Eng vs Pak Faisalabad 1987/88 BC Broad

T1154 WI vs Pak Karachi 1990/91 DL Haynes
T1176 SL vs Eng Lord's 1991 UC Hathurusingha
T1281 Aus vs Eng Sydney 1994/95 MA Taylor
T1320 RSA vs Eng P Elizabeth 1995/96 G Kirsten [dec]
T1340 WI vs Aus Brisbane 1996/97 SL Campbell
T1424 Pak vs Aus Rawalpindi 1998/99 Saeed Anwar
T1454 WI vs Aus St John's 1998/99 AFG Griffith
T1487 Pak vs SL Peshawar 1999/00 Saeed Anwar

T1617 Aus vs Pak Sharjah 2002/03 ML Hayden
T1734 Eng vs RSA Johannesburg 2004/05 ME Trescothick [dec]

T1963 Pak vs Aus Lord's 2010 Salman Butt
T2001 Ind vs Eng Nottingham 2011 R Dravid
T2034 Eng vs Pak Dubai 2011/12 AJ Strauss
T2121 Aus vs RSA P Elizabeth 2013/14 CJL Rogers
T2167 SL vs Pak Galle 2015 JK Silva
T2184 Eng vs Pak Sharjah 2015/16 AN Cook
T2193 WI vs Aus Hobart 2015/16 KC Brathwaite [lwf ao]
T2251 Ind vs Aus Bangalore 2016/17 KL Rahul
T2735 SL vs Pak Karachi 2019/20 BOP Fernando
T2736 NZ vs Aus Melbourne 2019/20 TA Blundell [lwf ao]

T2391 Pak vs Eng Manchester 2020 Shan Masood

Some of those need footnotes:

rh Fredericks retired hurt and resumed inns later - exclude
dec inns dec. when 9W fell
lwf last wkt to fall (ao all out, 1 batsman injured)