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aus+uk / aus.cars / Re: OT: The election...

SubjectAuthor
* OT: The election...lindsay
+* OT: The election...Noddy
|`* OT: The election...Daryl
| `- OT: The election...Noddy
+- OT: The election...Oliver Closeoff
+* OT: The election...Daryl
|`* OT: The election...Noddy
| +* OT: The election...Oliver Closeoff
| |`- OT: The election...Xeno
| +* OT: The election...alvey
| |+- OT: The election...Xeno
| |`- OT: The election...Clocky
| `* OT: The election...Daryl
|  `- OT: The election...Noddy
+* OT: The election...Clocky
|`* OT: The election...lindsay
| `- OT: The election...Clocky
+* OT: The election...John_H
|+- OT: The election...Clocky
|+* OT: The election...Daryl
||+* OT: The election...Trevor Wilson
|||+* OT: The election...Daryl
||||+* OT: The election...Trevor Wilson
|||||+* OT: The election...Noddy
||||||+* OT: The election...Trevor Wilson
|||||||+* OT: The election...Noddy
||||||||+- OT: The election...alvey
||||||||+- OT: The election...jonz@ nothere.com
||||||||`* OT: The election...Trevor Wilson
|||||||| +* OT: The election...Daryl
|||||||| |+- OT: The election...Noddy
|||||||| |`* OT: The election...Trevor Wilson
|||||||| | `* OT: The election...Daryl
|||||||| |  `- OT: The election...Xeno
|||||||| +- OT: The election...Yosemite Sam
|||||||| `* OT: The election...Clocky
||||||||  `* OT: The election...Trevor Wilson
||||||||   +- OT: The election...Daryl
||||||||   +- OT: The election...Noddy
||||||||   `* OT: The election...Clocky
||||||||    `* OT: The election...Trevor Wilson
||||||||     +- OT: The election...Daryl
||||||||     `- OT: The election...Clocky
|||||||+- OT: The election...Xeno
|||||||`- OT: The election...Daryl
||||||`- OT: The election...Xeno
|||||`* OT: The election...Daryl
||||| +* OT: The election...Trevor Wilson
||||| |+- OT: The election...Noddy
||||| |`- OT: The election...Daryl
||||| +- OT: The election...alvey
||||| `- OT: The election...Clocky
||||`- OT: The election...Noddy
|||+* OT: The election...Yosemite Sam
||||`* OT: The election...Trevor Wilson
|||| `* OT: The election...Noddy
||||  `* OT: The election...Trevor Wilson
||||   `* OT: The election...Noddy
||||    `* OT: The election...Daryl
||||     `- OT: The election...Trevor Wilson
|||`* OT: The election...John_H
||| `* OT: The election...Trevor Wilson
|||  `* OT: The election...John_H
|||   `* OT: The election...Trevor Wilson
|||    `* OT: The election...John_H
|||     +* OT: The election...Noddy
|||     |+* OT: The election...keithr0
|||     ||+- OT: The election...Trevor Wilson
|||     ||`* OT: The election...Noddy
|||     || `- OT: The election...Xeno
|||     |+- OT: The election...alvey
|||     |`* OT: The election...Clocky
|||     | `* OT: The election...Yosemite Sam
|||     |  `* OT: The election...Clocky
|||     |   `* OT: The election...Yosemite Sam
|||     |    `* OT: The election...keithr0
|||     |     +* OT: The election...Daryl
|||     |     |+- OT: The election...Yosemite Sam
|||     |     |+* OT: The election...keithr0
|||     |     ||`* OT: The election...Daryl
|||     |     || `- OT: The election...Clocky
|||     |     |`- OT: The election...Clocky
|||     |     +- OT: The election...Yosemite Sam
|||     |     `* OT: The election...Noddy
|||     |      +* OT: The election...keithr0
|||     |      |`* OT: The election...Noddy
|||     |      | `* OT: The election...keithr0
|||     |      |  +* OT: The election...Noddy
|||     |      |  |`* OT: The election...Yosemite Sam
|||     |      |  | `* OT: The election...Xeno
|||     |      |  |  `- OT: The election...Yosemite Sam
|||     |      |  `* OT: The election...Yosemite Sam
|||     |      |   `- OT: The election...keithr0
|||     |      `- OT: The election...Clocky
|||     `- OT: The election...Trevor Wilson
||+* OT: The election...Noddy
|||+* OT: The election...Daryl
||||+- OT: The election...alvey
||||`- OT: The election...Noddy
|||`* OT: The election...alvey
||| `- OT: The election...Xeno
||`* OT: The election...John_H
|+- OT: The election...lindsay
|`- OT: The election...keithr0
`* OT: The election...Trevor Wilson

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Re: OT: The election...

<t66e8u$6cr$1@dont-email.me>

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From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: The election...
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 07:53:32 +1000
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 by: Noddy - Thu, 19 May 2022 21:53 UTC

On 20/05/2022 6:39 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 19/05/2022 9:52 pm, Noddy wrote:

>> Trevor, you've mentioned this before and as I said at the time I'm
>> sorry for your loss. But your angst seems to be directed towards the
>> wrong people.
>
> **Bullshit.
>
>>
>> The government doesn't run aged care facilities.They just subsidise
>> them. The facilities themselves are run by private companies, and
>> while they're obliged to offer a minimum standard of care there is no
>> maximum.
>
> **And the minimum level of care is hopelessly inadequate. At the very
> minimum, nurses should be on the premises 24/7, minimum carer to
> resident ratios MUST be established and food quality must be rigidly
> specified. The COALition has steadfastly refused to implement any of
> these things. EXCEPT food. The gave money to aged care facilities in the
> hope they would improve food. However, the brilliant economic managers
> that the COALition claims to be, have failed to implement any oversight
> mechanism to ensure the money is not spent on mew Ferraris for the owners.
>
> Fucking morons. You keep voting for them.

I'm sorry but I can't see how any of this is the fault of the government.
>> The companies themselves are free to do as much as they like over and
>> above the expected minimum, and if they wish to provide the kind of
>> staff you're talking about here there is nothing stopping them from
>> doing so.
>
> **Correct. The COALition has refused to specify decent minimum standards
> for aged care. They just don't care.

"Decent" being the subjective term in this context. Some probably think
the current minimum standard is decent enough, while others such as
yourself disagree. Still, none of this changes the fact that the company
who runs the facility has the freedom to provide the level of care they
see fit.

>> But some don't. Some exist for no reason just to milk the system for
>> all they can get out of it, and it sounds a lot like the the people
>> who ran the facility where your sister was located was one of those.
>> The company who ran the facility was responsible for the level of care
>> they provided.
>
> **Who RUNS the facility. It's a large (Victorian) company, who cut
> staff, fired nurses and cut back on food quality. Because they could.
> Because the COALition refuses to implement decent standards for aged care.

A line has to be drawn in the sand somewhere, and no matter where you
draw it you'll never please everyone. Like the current argument about
medicare rebates for example. A lot of doctors are arguing that the
rebate doesn't pay them enough and unless it's raised they will either
have to cut back on services or stop bulk billing.

You'll never please everyone.
>> Not the government.
>>
>
> **The COALition has refused to specify decent minimum standards.

The government has set minimum standards, and in fact they have been in
place for a very long time. In fact it is the facilities *themselves*
who fail to set standards you'd be happy with as their owners are more
interested in the number of Ferrari's they own than the welfare of the
people who occupy their beds. No amount of government interference would
ever change that, and if you're unhappy with the service on offer then
you have the right to pack up and leave.

Just out of curiosity, if your sister wasn't happy with where she was,
why didn't she move?

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: OT: The election...

<t66et2$c99$1@dont-email.me>

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From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: The election...
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 08:04:16 +1000
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 by: Noddy - Thu, 19 May 2022 22:04 UTC

On 20/05/2022 5:43 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 19/05/2022 10:12 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:

>> nope. if you're in a safe labor seat your vote is worthless
>
> **I am in that fucking moron, Craig Kelly's electorate. I can't wait for
> him to be booted out. It's worth voting Liberal to see him go.

Give it a try, but he'll probably be safe.

> However, I should remind you that it was Scummo who insisted that Kelly
> be retained at the last election. The Libs had better choices, but that
> fucking idiot, Scummo saved Kelly. I hope that act bites him in the arse.

Who were the better choices?

I don't think anyone in the Liberal party had any particular love for
Craig Kelly, but he was already the incumbent MP and Morrison's interest
in "saving" him was for no reason other than for him to remain a Liberal
bum on the seat in Parliament. It's not like the Libs have an
overwhelming majority and could afford to lose a few.

But it raises an interesting point about politics in this country that
I'd like to see changed.

If you stand as a candidate on a particular ticket, be it party or
indipendent, and get elected on that ticket only to later change your
allegiance and become a member of some other party or independent stance
which was *not* what the electorate voted you in for then your position
as an MP in parliament should be immediately suspended and a by-election
should be held to see if the electorate supports your stance.

It's simply not good enough for candidates to be elected on the promise
of appealing to a particular group of voters only to run off and do
whatever the fuck they like once they get elected.
--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: OT: The election...

<ojfd8h1cnco7sv61qsp0ov0pq701ugg1c2@4ax.com>

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From: john4...@hotmail.com (John_H)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: The election...
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 08:13:24 +1000
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 by: John_H - Thu, 19 May 2022 22:13 UTC

Trevor Wilson wrote:
>On 19/05/2022 12:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 19/5/2022 10:23 am, John_H wrote:
>>> lindsay wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm getting old... most shit on media that i observe, (television,
>>>> radio) doesnt really faze me.... But when you're force fed political
>>>> *SHIT*, that we have to pay for, I draw the line.
>>>>
>>>> In the last 10 mins, I've heard "there's a hole in your budget...) 4
>>>> times on prime time tv, , I heard it 4 times in 30 mins on TTFM this
>>>> morning before I punched the clock radio in the face and swapped to
>>>> digital.... I believe they actually changed it to a more modern track
>>>> today, but I havent heard it...thankfully.
>>>>
>>>> I'm nearly happy, I voted early, so I dont have to stand around in a 45
>>>> minute queue with all the dirty fucks without a mask... I could lie, and
>>>> say I dont care who wins... I do.. but find the cunt who came up with
>>>> "theres a hole in your budget", and "put him in the curry" ffs.
>>>>
>>>>   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0n88tZQc4Q
>>>>
>>>> put 'em *ALL* in the curry....
>>>
>>> Hope you didn't put a major party at 1 which gets them  $3 or so for
>>> your vote (in spite of what others may say it's the taxpayer who pays
>>> for their shit).
>>>
>>> Also hope you never drew a prick on your ballot paper as one got
>>> elected last time (as I heard somewhere recently).  :)
>>>
>> I saw a sign on the hwy not far from here which says "Put the majors
>> last", not a bad idea but my electorate is a Labor stronghold so I vote
>> Liberal mostly in an attempt to weaken Labors hold on the electorate and
>> to make it more marginal.
>> At the last State election there was a significant swing away from Labor
>> here so hopefully the same thing will happen at the Federal election.
>>
>
>**A vote for the COALition ensures:
>
>* That the smirking, religious fool, Scummo and his sidekick, Joyce will
>be returned to power. Don't forget: Joyce runs the country when Scummo
>is somewhere else.
>* That zero progress on reducing CO2 emissions will occur.
>* We will not have a Federal ICAC.
>* There will be unrestrained spending on useless car parks, sports rorts
>and all the other shit.

Are you aware that Greens policy (you've previously claimed to be
familiar with) is specifically directed at thermal coal as opposed to
coking coal which is an essential component of steel making, at least
into the forseeable future?

Bob Brown certainly wasn't when he took his convoy to Clermont Q in
2019, with the nearest mine (coking coal) less than 20km away and at
least 2 hours drive from the Adani site (thermal coal). Coking coal,
comprising most of Queensland's output, is mined in the Bowen basin,
whereas thermal coal is Galilee basin.

In vilifying the entire industry you're giving the LNP another free
kick, just as Bob Brown did!

--
John H

Re: OT: The election...

<lcgd8hpfl2h0c9tvrkal864rb602p9f4vo@4ax.com>

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Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: The election...
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 08:16:13 +1000
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 by: John_H - Thu, 19 May 2022 22:16 UTC

Daryl wrote:
>On 19/5/2022 10:23 am, John_H wrote:
>>
>> Hope you didn't put a major party at 1 which gets them $3 or so for
>> your vote (in spite of what others may say it's the taxpayer who pays
>> for their shit).
>>
>> Also hope you never drew a prick on your ballot paper as one got
>> elected last time (as I heard somewhere recently). :)
>>
>I saw a sign on the hwy not far from here which says "Put the majors
>last", not a bad idea but my electorate is a Labor stronghold so I vote
>Liberal mostly in an attempt to weaken Labors hold on the electorate and
>to make it more marginal

Someone once put one near my local polling booth that read "DON'T
VOTE IT ONLY ENCOURAGES THE BASTARDS" but I reckon the culprit was
misguided! That was at the time when I always put the sitting member
from a major party last in the hope it would make us difficult to rule
over. Nowadays that position is reserved for Clive's lot... not that
it matters a shit since Bob Brown and his convoy converted a marginal
electorate to a safe LNP seat and I suspect his legacy lives on.

>At the last State election there was a significant swing away from Labor
>here so hopefully the same thing will happen at the Federal election.

I can live with either at a pinch but neither have policies for some
of the things that matter most to me. Albanese comes across as a
bumbling fool and Morrison is a lying arsehole who'd make a better
used car salesman than PM, so take your pick. I also have serious
doubts about an entrenched two party system (take a look at the US).
In spite of the Happy Clapper's claim that independents cause chaos
he's never had a majority government. If Labor doesn't support him he
needs independents to pass his legislation which is a bloody good
thing in my book.

--
John H

Re: OT: The election...

<jenu4eFifjrU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: tre...@rageaudio.com.au (Trevor Wilson)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: The election...
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 08:19:56 +1000
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In-Reply-To: <t66e8u$6cr$1@dont-email.me>
 by: Trevor Wilson - Thu, 19 May 2022 22:19 UTC

On 20/05/2022 7:53 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 20/05/2022 6:39 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 19/05/2022 9:52 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> Trevor, you've mentioned this before and as I said at the time I'm
>>> sorry for your loss. But your angst seems to be directed towards the
>>> wrong people.
>>
>> **Bullshit.
>>
>>>
>>> The government doesn't run aged care facilities.They just subsidise
>>> them. The facilities themselves are run by private companies, and
>>> while they're obliged to offer a minimum standard of care there is no
>>> maximum.
>>
>> **And the minimum level of care is hopelessly inadequate. At the very
>> minimum, nurses should be on the premises 24/7, minimum carer to
>> resident ratios MUST be established and food quality must be rigidly
>> specified. The COALition has steadfastly refused to implement any of
>> these things. EXCEPT food. The gave money to aged care facilities in
>> the hope they would improve food. However, the brilliant economic
>> managers that the COALition claims to be, have failed to implement any
>> oversight mechanism to ensure the money is not spent on mew Ferraris
>> for the owners.
>>
>> Fucking morons. You keep voting for them.
>
> I'm sorry but I can't see how any of this is the fault of the government.

**Asked and answered.
* Nurses on duty 24/7
* Mandatory carer to resident ratios
* Decent, nutritious food

Whilst the government refuses to mandate such things, aged care
providers will cut costs, staff and food quality.

You should hope that you don't end up in aged care under a COALition
government.

>>> The companies themselves are free to do as much as they like over and
>>> above the expected minimum, and if they wish to provide the kind of
>>> staff you're talking about here there is nothing stopping them from
>>> doing so.
>>
>> **Correct. The COALition has refused to specify decent minimum
>> standards for aged care. They just don't care.
>
> "Decent" being the subjective term in this context.

**It's not fucking subjective to provide nurses for frail people, or
adequate staffing levels or decent quality food. NONE of that is
subjective. It's all measurable and achievable. Sadly the owners of the
aged care facilities may have to settle for a low end Ferrari.

Some probably think
> the current minimum standard is decent enough,

**Nope. No one does.

while others such as
> yourself disagree.

**The only ones who think it's good enough are:

* The COALition government
* The owners of most aged care facilities.

EVERYONE else knows there are problems. Unless, like you, they have
their heads in the sand.

Still, none of this changes the fact that the company
> who runs the facility has the freedom to provide the level of care they
> see fit.

**Which needs to be adequately specified by the government, since
taxpayers foot a large chunk of the bill.

>
>>> But some don't. Some exist for no reason just to milk the system for
>>> all they can get out of it, and it sounds a lot like the the people
>>> who ran the facility where your sister was located was one of those.
>>> The company who ran the facility was responsible for the level of
>>> care they provided.
>>
>> **Who RUNS the facility. It's a large (Victorian) company, who cut
>> staff, fired nurses and cut back on food quality. Because they could.
>> Because the COALition refuses to implement decent standards for aged
>> care.
>
> A line has to be drawn in the sand somewhere, and no matter where you
> draw it you'll never please everyone.

**Get real. Shit food, inadequate staffing levels and no medical
professionals is the minimum that any reasonable person can expect.
Unless you happen to not give a shit.

Like the current argument about
> medicare rebates for example. A lot of doctors are arguing that the
> rebate doesn't pay them enough and unless it's raised they will either
> have to cut back on services or stop bulk billing.

**I note your attempt to change the topic.

>
> You'll never please everyone.
>>> Not the government.
>>>
>>
>> **The COALition has refused to specify decent minimum standards.
>
> The government has set minimum standards, and in fact they have been in
> place for a very long time.

**The minimum standards are:

* Inadequate. There are no minimum standards for staff to resident ratios.
* Not policed.

In fact it is the facilities *themselves*
> who fail to set standards you'd be happy with as their owners are more
> interested in the number of Ferrari's they own than the welfare of the
> people who occupy their beds.

**And, once more: TAXPAYERS foot the bill for this shit. TAXPAYERS are
entitled to demand more and better oversight.

No amount of government interference would
> ever change that, and if you're unhappy with the service on offer then
> you have the right to pack up and leave.

**Spoken like someone who has no experience with the system. It ain't
that easy.

>
> Just out of curiosity, if your sister wasn't happy with where she was,
> why didn't she move?

**My sister was non-communicative. She was totally reliant on her
carers, who failed her miserably. Due to COVID restrictions, my
brother-in-law was unable to visit her.

And, for the record: When she was admitted to the palliative care
section of the local hospital, we had a discussion about moving her to a
dedicated palliative care facility. Her doctors determined that she was
so weak, that the 5km trip would have killed her. My sister was
extremely ill. She looked worse than those people who spent their days
in Nazi concentration camps.

If the COALition had bothered to implement the changes promised by
Labor, my sister may still be alive today.

I'll say again: Avoid entering aged care while the COALition is running
things. The COALition acts to protect the companies that run aged care
facilities. They do not act for residents.

Re: OT: The election...

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From: tre...@rageaudio.com.au (Trevor Wilson)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: The election...
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 08:28:40 +1000
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 by: Trevor Wilson - Thu, 19 May 2022 22:28 UTC

On 20/05/2022 8:13 am, John_H wrote:
> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 19/05/2022 12:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 19/5/2022 10:23 am, John_H wrote:
>>>> lindsay wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm getting old... most shit on media that i observe, (television,
>>>>> radio) doesnt really faze me.... But when you're force fed political
>>>>> *SHIT*, that we have to pay for, I draw the line.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the last 10 mins, I've heard "there's a hole in your budget...) 4
>>>>> times on prime time tv, , I heard it 4 times in 30 mins on TTFM this
>>>>> morning before I punched the clock radio in the face and swapped to
>>>>> digital.... I believe they actually changed it to a more modern track
>>>>> today, but I havent heard it...thankfully.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm nearly happy, I voted early, so I dont have to stand around in a 45
>>>>> minute queue with all the dirty fucks without a mask... I could lie, and
>>>>> say I dont care who wins... I do.. but find the cunt who came up with
>>>>> "theres a hole in your budget", and "put him in the curry" ffs.
>>>>>
>>>>>   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0n88tZQc4Q
>>>>>
>>>>> put 'em *ALL* in the curry....
>>>>
>>>> Hope you didn't put a major party at 1 which gets them  $3 or so for
>>>> your vote (in spite of what others may say it's the taxpayer who pays
>>>> for their shit).
>>>>
>>>> Also hope you never drew a prick on your ballot paper as one got
>>>> elected last time (as I heard somewhere recently).  :)
>>>>
>>> I saw a sign on the hwy not far from here which says "Put the majors
>>> last", not a bad idea but my electorate is a Labor stronghold so I vote
>>> Liberal mostly in an attempt to weaken Labors hold on the electorate and
>>> to make it more marginal.
>>> At the last State election there was a significant swing away from Labor
>>> here so hopefully the same thing will happen at the Federal election.
>>>
>>
>> **A vote for the COALition ensures:
>>
>> * That the smirking, religious fool, Scummo and his sidekick, Joyce will
>> be returned to power. Don't forget: Joyce runs the country when Scummo
>> is somewhere else.
>> * That zero progress on reducing CO2 emissions will occur.
>> * We will not have a Federal ICAC.
>> * There will be unrestrained spending on useless car parks, sports rorts
>> and all the other shit.
>
> Are you aware that Greens policy (you've previously claimed to be
> familiar with) is specifically directed at thermal coal as opposed to
> coking coal which is an essential component of steel making, at least
> into the forseeable future?

**Of course.

>
> Bob Brown certainly wasn't when he took his convoy to Clermont Q in
> 2019, with the nearest mine (coking coal) less than 20km away and at
> least 2 hours drive from the Adani site (thermal coal). Coking coal,
> comprising most of Queensland's output, is mined in the Bowen basin,
> whereas thermal coal is Galilee basin.

**Bob Brown has not been a Greens leader for many years.

>
> In vilifying the entire industry you're giving the LNP another free
> kick, just as Bob Brown did!

**"Vilifying"? How so? I am simply stating fact. Using coal for power
generation is a dead-end business. Everyone involved in that business
should be well aware of that fact. Using coal to generate power is
expensive and polluting.

Re: OT: The election...

<jenv1cFilghU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: tre...@rageaudio.com.au (Trevor Wilson)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: The election...
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 08:35:22 +1000
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 by: Trevor Wilson - Thu, 19 May 2022 22:35 UTC

On 20/05/2022 8:04 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 20/05/2022 5:43 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 19/05/2022 10:12 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>
>>> nope. if you're in a safe labor seat your vote is worthless
>>
>> **I am in that fucking moron, Craig Kelly's electorate. I can't wait
>> for him to be booted out. It's worth voting Liberal to see him go.
>
> Give it a try, but he'll probably be safe.

**The most recent figures I saw were roughly:

Lib: 37%
ULP: 9%
Lab: 18%
Ind: 28%
Green: 8%

The Lib candidate looks to be a shoo-in, given Palmer directs
preferences to the COALition. Kelly will, thankfully, be gone.

>
>> However, I should remind you that it was Scummo who insisted that
>> Kelly be retained at the last election. The Libs had better choices,
>> but that fucking idiot, Scummo saved Kelly. I hope that act bites him
>> in the arse.
>
> Who were the better choices?

**A ficus. ANYONE else.

>
> I don't think anyone in the Liberal party had any particular love for
> Craig Kelly, but he was already the incumbent MP and Morrison's interest
> in "saving" him was for no reason other than for him to remain a Liberal
> bum on the seat in Parliament. It's not like the Libs have an
> overwhelming majority and could afford to lose a few.

**Scummo is a moron, as exemplified by his choice in the Warringah
candidate. Deves is so desperately unpopular, that the Liberal
volunteers have deserted her and are assisting candidates in other
electorates. NO ONE wants her, except Scummo.

>
> But it raises an interesting point about politics in this country that
> I'd like to see changed.
>
> If you stand as a candidate on a particular ticket, be it party or
> indipendent, and get elected on that ticket only to later change your
> allegiance and become a member of some other party or independent stance
> which was *not* what the electorate voted you in for then your position
> as an MP in parliament should be immediately suspended and a by-election
> should be held to see if the electorate supports your stance.

**I am inclined to agree, despite the fact that there have been some
positive developments in that system. Lambie, et al.

>
> It's simply not good enough for candidates to be elected on the promise
> of appealing to a particular group of voters only to run off and do
> whatever the fuck they like once they get elected.

**Like pretty much everyone in Palmer's party.

Re: OT: The election...

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: The election...
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 10:14:50 +1000
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 by: Daryl - Fri, 20 May 2022 00:14 UTC

On 20/5/2022 8:16 am, John_H wrote:
> Daryl wrote:
>> On 19/5/2022 10:23 am, John_H wrote:
>>>
>>> Hope you didn't put a major party at 1 which gets them $3 or so for
>>> your vote (in spite of what others may say it's the taxpayer who pays
>>> for their shit).
>>>
>>> Also hope you never drew a prick on your ballot paper as one got
>>> elected last time (as I heard somewhere recently). :)
>>>
>> I saw a sign on the hwy not far from here which says "Put the majors
>> last", not a bad idea but my electorate is a Labor stronghold so I vote
>> Liberal mostly in an attempt to weaken Labors hold on the electorate and
>> to make it more marginal
>
> Someone once put one near my local polling booth that read "DON'T
> VOTE IT ONLY ENCOURAGES THE BASTARDS" but I reckon the culprit was
> misguided! That was at the time when I always put the sitting member
> from a major party last in the hope it would make us difficult to rule
> over. Nowadays that position is reserved for Clive's lot... not that
> it matters a shit since Bob Brown and his convoy converted a marginal
> electorate to a safe LNP seat and I suspect his legacy lives on.
>
>> At the last State election there was a significant swing away from Labor
>> here so hopefully the same thing will happen at the Federal election.
>
> I can live with either at a pinch but neither have policies for some
> of the things that matter most to me. Albanese comes across as a
> bumbling fool and Morrison is a lying arsehole who'd make a better
> used car salesman than PM, so take your pick.

Agree neither is a great choice but I hate that elections have become a
leaders popularity contest rather than a vote about policy.
Decent political leadership has been sadly lacking for decades.

I also have serious
> doubts about an entrenched two party system (take a look at the US).

Know what you mean, its far from ideal but it is what it is, not much
can be done to change it.

> In spite of the Happy Clapper's claim that independents cause chaos
> he's never had a majority government. If Labor doesn't support him he
> needs independents to pass his legislation which is a bloody good
> thing in my book.
>
Agree if independents are truly independent which is something we can
never be 100% sure of.

--
Daryl

Re: OT: The election...

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From: john4...@hotmail.com (John_H)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: The election...
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 10:16:02 +1000
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 by: John_H - Fri, 20 May 2022 00:16 UTC

Trevor Wilson wrote:
>On 20/05/2022 8:13 am, John_H wrote:
>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 19/05/2022 12:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>> On 19/5/2022 10:23 am, John_H wrote:
>>>>> lindsay wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm getting old... most shit on media that i observe, (television,
>>>>>> radio) doesnt really faze me.... But when you're force fed political
>>>>>> *SHIT*, that we have to pay for, I draw the line.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the last 10 mins, I've heard "there's a hole in your budget...) 4
>>>>>> times on prime time tv, , I heard it 4 times in 30 mins on TTFM this
>>>>>> morning before I punched the clock radio in the face and swapped to
>>>>>> digital.... I believe they actually changed it to a more modern track
>>>>>> today, but I havent heard it...thankfully.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm nearly happy, I voted early, so I dont have to stand around in a 45
>>>>>> minute queue with all the dirty fucks without a mask... I could lie, and
>>>>>> say I dont care who wins... I do.. but find the cunt who came up with
>>>>>> "theres a hole in your budget", and "put him in the curry" ffs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0n88tZQc4Q
>>>>>>
>>>>>> put 'em *ALL* in the curry....
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope you didn't put a major party at 1 which gets them  $3 or so for
>>>>> your vote (in spite of what others may say it's the taxpayer who pays
>>>>> for their shit).
>>>>>
>>>>> Also hope you never drew a prick on your ballot paper as one got
>>>>> elected last time (as I heard somewhere recently).  :)
>>>>>
>>>> I saw a sign on the hwy not far from here which says "Put the majors
>>>> last", not a bad idea but my electorate is a Labor stronghold so I vote
>>>> Liberal mostly in an attempt to weaken Labors hold on the electorate and
>>>> to make it more marginal.
>>>> At the last State election there was a significant swing away from Labor
>>>> here so hopefully the same thing will happen at the Federal election.
>>>>
>>>
>>> **A vote for the COALition ensures:
>>>
>>> * That the smirking, religious fool, Scummo and his sidekick, Joyce will
>>> be returned to power. Don't forget: Joyce runs the country when Scummo
>>> is somewhere else.
>>> * That zero progress on reducing CO2 emissions will occur.
>>> * We will not have a Federal ICAC.
>>> * There will be unrestrained spending on useless car parks, sports rorts
>>> and all the other shit.
>>
>> Are you aware that Greens policy (you've previously claimed to be
>> familiar with) is specifically directed at thermal coal as opposed to
>> coking coal which is an essential component of steel making, at least
>> into the forseeable future?
>
>**Of course.
>
>>
>> Bob Brown certainly wasn't when he took his convoy to Clermont Q in
>> 2019, with the nearest mine (coking coal) less than 20km away and at
>> least 2 hours drive from the Adani site (thermal coal). Coking coal,
>> comprising most of Queensland's output, is mined in the Bowen basin,
>> whereas thermal coal is Galilee basin.
>
>**Bob Brown has not been a Greens leader for many years.

Indeed, he was the one responsible for voting down Krudd's original
carbon pricing because it didn't include a ban on coal mining (nice
bloke but politically inept). Nowadays not even Labor supports a
carbon tax after they beating they copped at the end of their last
stint in office.

>> In vilifying the entire industry you're giving the LNP another free
>> kick, just as Bob Brown did!
>
>**"Vilifying"? How so? I am simply stating fact. Using coal for power
>generation is a dead-end business. Everyone involved in that business
>should be well aware of that fact. Using coal to generate power is
>expensive and polluting.

Always looks to me that you're happy to vilify anyone connected with
the coal industry same as anyone who doesn't accept *your* view on
climate change. Trouble is the mine workers see things exactly the
same way..

Following Bob Brown's visit even the local CFMEU branch withdrew its
support from Labor.

--
John H

Re: OT: The election...

<jeo681Fjv7hU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: tre...@rageaudio.com.au (Trevor Wilson)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: The election...
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 10:38:23 +1000
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 by: Trevor Wilson - Fri, 20 May 2022 00:38 UTC

On 20/05/2022 10:16 am, John_H wrote:
> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 20/05/2022 8:13 am, John_H wrote:
>>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 19/05/2022 12:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>> On 19/5/2022 10:23 am, John_H wrote:
>>>>>> lindsay wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm getting old... most shit on media that i observe, (television,
>>>>>>> radio) doesnt really faze me.... But when you're force fed political
>>>>>>> *SHIT*, that we have to pay for, I draw the line.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the last 10 mins, I've heard "there's a hole in your budget...) 4
>>>>>>> times on prime time tv, , I heard it 4 times in 30 mins on TTFM this
>>>>>>> morning before I punched the clock radio in the face and swapped to
>>>>>>> digital.... I believe they actually changed it to a more modern track
>>>>>>> today, but I havent heard it...thankfully.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm nearly happy, I voted early, so I dont have to stand around in a 45
>>>>>>> minute queue with all the dirty fucks without a mask... I could lie, and
>>>>>>> say I dont care who wins... I do.. but find the cunt who came up with
>>>>>>> "theres a hole in your budget", and "put him in the curry" ffs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0n88tZQc4Q
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> put 'em *ALL* in the curry....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope you didn't put a major party at 1 which gets them  $3 or so for
>>>>>> your vote (in spite of what others may say it's the taxpayer who pays
>>>>>> for their shit).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also hope you never drew a prick on your ballot paper as one got
>>>>>> elected last time (as I heard somewhere recently).  :)
>>>>>>
>>>>> I saw a sign on the hwy not far from here which says "Put the majors
>>>>> last", not a bad idea but my electorate is a Labor stronghold so I vote
>>>>> Liberal mostly in an attempt to weaken Labors hold on the electorate and
>>>>> to make it more marginal.
>>>>> At the last State election there was a significant swing away from Labor
>>>>> here so hopefully the same thing will happen at the Federal election.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> **A vote for the COALition ensures:
>>>>
>>>> * That the smirking, religious fool, Scummo and his sidekick, Joyce will
>>>> be returned to power. Don't forget: Joyce runs the country when Scummo
>>>> is somewhere else.
>>>> * That zero progress on reducing CO2 emissions will occur.
>>>> * We will not have a Federal ICAC.
>>>> * There will be unrestrained spending on useless car parks, sports rorts
>>>> and all the other shit.
>>>
>>> Are you aware that Greens policy (you've previously claimed to be
>>> familiar with) is specifically directed at thermal coal as opposed to
>>> coking coal which is an essential component of steel making, at least
>>> into the forseeable future?
>>
>> **Of course.
>>
>>>
>>> Bob Brown certainly wasn't when he took his convoy to Clermont Q in
>>> 2019, with the nearest mine (coking coal) less than 20km away and at
>>> least 2 hours drive from the Adani site (thermal coal). Coking coal,
>>> comprising most of Queensland's output, is mined in the Bowen basin,
>>> whereas thermal coal is Galilee basin.
>>
>> **Bob Brown has not been a Greens leader for many years.
>
> Indeed, he was the one responsible for voting down Krudd's original
> carbon pricing because it didn't include a ban on coal mining (nice
> bloke but politically inept). Nowadays not even Labor supports a
> carbon tax after they beating they copped at the end of their last
> stint in office.
>
>>> In vilifying the entire industry you're giving the LNP another free
>>> kick, just as Bob Brown did!
>>
>> **"Vilifying"? How so? I am simply stating fact. Using coal for power
>> generation is a dead-end business. Everyone involved in that business
>> should be well aware of that fact. Using coal to generate power is
>> expensive and polluting.
>
> Always looks to me that you're happy to vilify anyone connected with
> the coal industry same as anyone who doesn't accept *your* view on
> climate change. Trouble is the mine workers see things exactly the
> same way..

**Points:

It's not _MY_ view on climate change. I simply listen to the climate
scientists. There can be no alternative. Burning fossil fuels is really
dumb.

Mine workers are a different problem. I recognise that, in many areas of
Australia, there are few jobs other than mining (coal). That must
change. Politicians must deliver programmes so that mine workers can
re-train in careers that will serve them for the next few decades.

However, ANY mine worker who has entered the industry in the past few
years (personally, I would say the past two decades), expecting a long
term employment is just a moron. They deserve what they get -
unemployment. There is no long term future for thermal coal. I would
also add that, as mechanisation increases, then the number of jobs
decreases. BTW, coal mining employs less than 38,000 Australians:

https://australiainstitute.org.au/post/how-many-coal-jobs-check-the-facts/

A truly insignificant number of workers.

>
> Following Bob Brown's visit even the local CFMEU branch withdrew its
> support from Labor.

**I don't care for most unions. Some are OK. some are not. Most are run
by dickheads. They are equivalent to our politicians.

Re: OT: The election...

<t66o9m$1m4$1@dont-email.me>

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Subject: Re: OT: The election...
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 by: Noddy - Fri, 20 May 2022 00:44 UTC

On 20/05/2022 8:19 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 20/05/2022 7:53 am, Noddy wrote:

>> I'm sorry but I can't see how any of this is the fault of the government.
>
>
> **Asked and answered.
> * Nurses on duty 24/7
> * Mandatory carer to resident ratios
> * Decent, nutritious food

Yep, and there is nothing stopping a *single* facility from ever
supplying these things.

> Whilst the government refuses to mandate such things, aged care
> providers will cut costs, staff and food quality.

And yet you see the negligent actions of unscrupulous facility owners as
the fault of the government.

> You should hope that you don't end up in aged care under a COALition
> government.

I've already made arrangements with my wife that if the day comes where
I ever reach the point where I need to be admitted to such a facility
then she's free to lace my dinner with Ratsak and sell my body to the
highest bidder.

Of course, having granted her such licence, I need to be especially
careful whenever we have an argument in the mean time :)

>>> **Correct. The COALition has refused to specify decent minimum
>>> standards for aged care. They just don't care.
>>
>> "Decent" being the subjective term in this context.
>
> **It's not fucking subjective to provide nurses for frail people, or
> adequate staffing levels or decent quality food. NONE of that is
> subjective.

It is *precisely* subjective Trevor. Your idea of "quality care" is not
everyone else's. Everyone's needs are different.

> It's all measurable and achievable. Sadly the owners of the
> aged care facilities may have to settle for a low end Ferrari.

Again, you're sticking it to the wrong people. Those you *should* be
blaming are the unscrupulous care facility owners who treat their
clients like a meal ticket, and to be absolutely frank letting them off
the hook because you think the government doesn't provide adequate
funding is an absolute nonsense.

It's like GP's claiming they can't afford to bulk bill patients because
they're only making 170 bucks an hour to write out scripts.

>  Some probably think
>> the current minimum standard is decent enough,
>
> **Nope. No one does.

Right. So you've conducted a poll and found that everyone thinks that way?

>  while others such as
>> yourself disagree.
>
> **The only ones who think it's good enough are:
>
> * The COALition government
> * The owners of most aged care facilities.
>
> EVERYONE else knows there are problems. Unless, like you, they have
> their heads in the sand.

Actually Trev, you should be praising the current government, as they're
the only ones that I can recall in a very long time who has launched an
inquiry into the aged care system, despite the system having been a mess
for *decades* at the hands of many governments from either side of the
political fence.

> Still, none of this changes the fact that the company
>> who runs the facility has the freedom to provide the level of care
>> they see fit.
>
> **Which needs to be adequately specified by the government, since
> taxpayers foot a large chunk of the bill.

So the government should not only foot the lion's share of the bill, but
tell them how they have to run their business?

Why don't we just dispense with the middle man and have the Government
do it all themselves?

>> A line has to be drawn in the sand somewhere, and no matter where you
>> draw it you'll never please everyone.
>
> **Get real. Shit food, inadequate staffing levels and no medical
> professionals is the minimum that any reasonable person can expect.
> Unless you happen to not give a shit.

You understand that you're free to pick and choose where you want to go,
and no one is *forced* into any particular facility, right? There are
better options available that offer better services, but then you'll
have to pay more for those services.

What you generally don't get, and this is usually true with everything,
is the best service at the cheapest price.

>  Like the current argument about
>> medicare rebates for example. A lot of doctors are arguing that the
>> rebate doesn't pay them enough and unless it's raised they will either
>> have to cut back on services or stop bulk billing.
>
> **I note your attempt to change the topic.

Note whatever you like, but the point is that fault of the aged care
industry likes squarely at the feet of the people who run it, and that
is *not* the government.

>  No amount of government interference would
>> ever change that, and if you're unhappy with the service on offer then
>> you have the right to pack up and leave.
>
> **Spoken like someone who has no experience with the system. It ain't
> that easy.

Well, yeah, it is.

You pay for X, but you want Y. But you're not prepared to pay for Y so
you have to settle for X. That's pretty much how it works. The aged care
business is a business like any other.

>> Just out of curiosity, if your sister wasn't happy with where she was,
>> why didn't she move?
>
> **My sister was non-communicative. She was totally reliant on her
> carers, who failed her miserably. Due to COVID restrictions, my
> brother-in-law was unable to visit her.

I think a great many people suffered the same fate.

> And, for the record: When she was admitted to the palliative care
> section of the local hospital, we had a discussion about moving her to a
> dedicated palliative care facility. Her doctors determined that she was
> so weak, that the 5km trip would have killed her. My sister was
> extremely ill. She looked worse than those people who spent their days
> in Nazi concentration camps.
>
> If the COALition had bothered to implement the changes promised by
> Labor, my sister may still be alive today.

There's no possible way you can know that, and as sad as it is given the
comments of the doctors that you've mentioned here it probably wouldn't
have made any difference to her where she was.

> I'll say again: Avoid entering aged care while the COALition is running
> things. The COALition acts to protect the companies that run aged care
> facilities. They do not act for residents.

I can understand you being upset, but rubbish like this here isn't doing
you any favours.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: OT: The election...

<jeo6psFk1voU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: tre...@rageaudio.com.au (Trevor Wilson)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: The election...
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 10:47:55 +1000
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 by: Trevor Wilson - Fri, 20 May 2022 00:47 UTC

On 20/05/2022 10:14 am, Daryl wrote:
> On 20/5/2022 8:16 am, John_H wrote:
>> Daryl wrote:
>>> On 19/5/2022 10:23 am, John_H wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hope you didn't put a major party at 1 which gets them  $3 or so for
>>>> your vote (in spite of what others may say it's the taxpayer who pays
>>>> for their shit).
>>>>
>>>> Also hope you never drew a prick on your ballot paper as one got
>>>> elected last time (as I heard somewhere recently).  :)
>>>>
>>> I saw a sign on the hwy not far from here which says "Put the majors
>>> last", not a bad idea but my electorate is a Labor stronghold so I vote
>>> Liberal mostly in an attempt to weaken Labors hold on the electorate and
>>> to make it more marginal
>>
>> Someone once put one near my local polling booth that  read "DON'T
>> VOTE IT ONLY ENCOURAGES THE BASTARDS" but I reckon the culprit was
>> misguided!  That was at the time when I always put the sitting member
>> from a major party last in the hope it would make us difficult to rule
>> over.  Nowadays that position is reserved for Clive's lot...  not that
>> it matters a shit since Bob Brown and his convoy converted a marginal
>> electorate to a safe LNP seat and I suspect his legacy lives on.
>>
>>> At the last State election there was a significant swing away from Labor
>>> here so hopefully the same thing will happen at the Federal election.
>>
>> I can live with either at a pinch but neither have policies for some
>> of the things that matter most to me.  Albanese comes across as a
>> bumbling fool and Morrison is a lying arsehole who'd make a better
>> used car salesman than PM, so take your pick.
>
> Agree neither is a great choice but I hate that elections have become a
> leaders popularity contest rather than a vote about policy.
> Decent political leadership has been sadly lacking for decades.

**Wrong. Julia Gillard was an excellent leader. She managed a minority
government with great skill and aplomb. As for policies, well Bill
Shorten put a whole stack of excellent policies on the table at the last
election. He was beaten by an ad-man with no policies at all.

>
>   I also have serious
>> doubts about an entrenched two party system (take a look at the US).
>
> Know what you mean, its far from ideal but it is what it is, not much
> can be done to change it.

**Bullshit. We will likely see it at this election. The Greens and
independents will probably end up with the balance of power. We may
finally see some significant changes WRT climate change policies as a
result.

>
>> In spite of the Happy Clapper's claim that independents cause chaos
>> he's never had a majority government.  If Labor doesn't support him he
>> needs independents to pass his legislation which is a bloody good
>> thing in my book.
>>
> Agree if independents are truly independent which is something we can
> never be 100% sure of.

**Correct, which is why we should all vote Green.

Re: OT: The election...

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From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: The election...
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 by: Noddy - Fri, 20 May 2022 00:55 UTC

On 20/05/2022 8:35 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 20/05/2022 8:04 am, Noddy wrote:

>>> **I am in that fucking moron, Craig Kelly's electorate. I can't wait
>>> for him to be booted out. It's worth voting Liberal to see him go.
>>
>> Give it a try, but he'll probably be safe.
>
> **The most recent figures I saw were roughly:
>
> Lib: 37%
> ULP: 9%
> Lab: 18%
> Ind: 28%
> Green: 8%
>
> The Lib candidate looks to be a shoo-in, given Palmer directs
> preferences to the COALition. Kelly will, thankfully, be gone.

Hopefully. And if he got hit by a train on the way home from announcing
his defeat that would be a sensational bonus.

>>> However, I should remind you that it was Scummo who insisted that
>>> Kelly be retained at the last election. The Libs had better choices,
>>> but that fucking idiot, Scummo saved Kelly. I hope that act bites him
>>> in the arse.
>>
>> Who were the better choices?
>
> **A ficus. ANYONE else.

Lol :)

I take your point :)

>> I don't think anyone in the Liberal party had any particular love for
>> Craig Kelly, but he was already the incumbent MP and Morrison's
>> interest in "saving" him was for no reason other than for him to
>> remain a Liberal bum on the seat in Parliament. It's not like the Libs
>> have an overwhelming majority and could afford to lose a few.
>
> **Scummo is a moron, as exemplified by his choice in the Warringah
> candidate. Deves is so desperately unpopular, that the Liberal
> volunteers have deserted her and are assisting candidates in other
> electorates. NO ONE wants her, except Scummo.

Lets see how she does, but at the moment there is a *big* movement to
give women a free kick because they think it's the popular thing to do.
Personally I'm all for equality, but my version of it is for things to
be exactly the same for everyone and that's not what people want.

>> But it raises an interesting point about politics in this country that
>> I'd like to see changed.
>>
>> If you stand as a candidate on a particular ticket, be it party or
>> indipendent, and get elected on that ticket only to later change your
>> allegiance and become a member of some other party or independent
>> stance which was *not* what the electorate voted you in for then your
>> position as an MP in parliament should be immediately suspended and a
>> by-election should be held to see if the electorate supports your stance.
>
> **I am inclined to agree, despite the fact that there have been some
> positive developments in that system. Lambie, et al.

Fair point. Lambie is the one example I can think of where I was happy
to see her move away from Palmer's asylum and go out on her own. She's a
dynamic player who does a lot for her constituents and the Senate is a
better place for her presence.
>>
>> It's simply not good enough for candidates to be elected on the
>> promise of appealing to a particular group of voters only to run off
>> and do whatever the fuck they like once they get elected.
>
> **Like pretty much everyone in Palmer's party.

Pretty much. Including the absolute fucking *nutters* who think Covid
vaccinations give you Aids. For fuck's sake. Do they not do *any* kind
of psychological screening before selecting someone as a candidate? :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: OT: The election...

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Subject: Re: OT: The election...
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 by: Noddy - Fri, 20 May 2022 01:04 UTC

On 19/05/2022 11:21 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 19/5/2022 9:52 pm, Noddy wrote:

>>
>> The government doesn't run aged care facilities. They just subsidise
>> them. The facilities themselves are run by private companies, and
>> while they're obliged to offer a minimum standard of care there is no
>> maximum. The companies themselves are free to do as much as they like
>> over and above the expected minimum, and if they wish to provide the
>> kind of staff you're talking about here there is nothing stopping them
>> from doing so.
>>
>> But some don't. Some exist for no reason just to milk the system for
>> all they can get out of it, and it sounds a lot like the the people
>> who ran the facility where your sister was located was one of those.
>> The company who ran the facility was responsible for the level of care
>> they provided.
>>
>> Not the government.
>>
>
> That certainly seemed to be the case where my mother was, she was at
> Estia Health in Benalla and she was always happy there right up until
> she died in Dec 2020.
> One of my sisters looked after all of mum's finances and care and I
> didn't get involved in any of the details, I know we had to sell her
> house so she could pay a "deposit" of some sort to help pay for her care
> which was refunded after her death, AFAIK part of her pension was also
> paid to the nursing home.
> Same Govt different result so is the Govt to blame for poor standard of
> care or the owners/managers of the nursing homes?
> Bit of both?

I'm sure every government subsidised aged car facility operator would
happily scream that the government doesn't give them enough, just like
I'm sure that every *other* corporation, business or individual in this
country who receives a government assistance package of some kind would
do. As sad as it may seem the reality is that it doesn't matter *how*
much money the government hands over people will *never* be satisfied
with it, and they will never be able to afford to fund things to a level
that makes everyone happy.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: OT: The election...

<jeo7r1Fk7g1U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: tre...@rageaudio.com.au (Trevor Wilson)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: The election...
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 11:05:35 +1000
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 by: Trevor Wilson - Fri, 20 May 2022 01:05 UTC

On 20/05/2022 10:44 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 20/05/2022 8:19 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 20/05/2022 7:53 am, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> I'm sorry but I can't see how any of this is the fault of the
>>> government.
>>
>>
>> **Asked and answered.
>> * Nurses on duty 24/7
>> * Mandatory carer to resident ratios
>> * Decent, nutritious food
>
> Yep, and there is nothing stopping a *single* facility from ever
> supplying these things.

**Yes, there is: Greed. It is up to the government to control their
greed. Again: Taxpayers fund these bastards. It is up to the government
to exert proper controls over them.

>
>> Whilst the government refuses to mandate such things, aged care
>> providers will cut costs, staff and food quality.
>
> And yet you see the negligent actions of unscrupulous facility owners as
> the fault of the government.

**It is the fault of the facility owners and negligence on the part of
the government to continue to fail to manage taxpayer funds.

>
>> You should hope that you don't end up in aged care under a COALition
>> government.
>
> I've already made arrangements with my wife that if the day comes where
> I ever reach the point where I need to be admitted to such a facility
> then she's free to lace my dinner with Ratsak and sell my body to the
> highest bidder.
>
> Of course, having granted her such licence, I need to be especially
> careful whenever we have an argument in the mean time :)

**Yeah, I've heard that before. When the time comes, you may not take
the same approach.

>
>>>> **Correct. The COALition has refused to specify decent minimum
>>>> standards for aged care. They just don't care.
>>>
>>> "Decent" being the subjective term in this context.
>>
>> **It's not fucking subjective to provide nurses for frail people, or
>> adequate staffing levels or decent quality food. NONE of that is
>> subjective.
>
> It is *precisely* subjective Trevor. Your idea of "quality care" is not
> everyone else's. Everyone's needs are different.

**You're wrong. Those things are FUNDAMENTAL to quality care.

>
>> It's all measurable and achievable. Sadly the owners of the aged care
>> facilities may have to settle for a low end Ferrari.
>
> Again, you're sticking it to the wrong people. Those you *should* be
> blaming are the unscrupulous care facility owners who treat their
> clients like a meal ticket, and to be absolutely frank letting them off
> the hook because you think the government doesn't provide adequate
> funding is an absolute nonsense.

**Of course I blame the owners of the facilities. I also blame the
government for not mandating proper care.

>
> It's like GP's claiming they can't afford to bulk bill patients because
> they're only making 170 bucks an hour to write out scripts.
>
>>   Some probably think
>>> the current minimum standard is decent enough,
>>
>> **Nope. No one does.
>
> Right. So you've conducted a poll and found that everyone thinks that way?

**Tell you what: YOU find someone who thinks that the minimum standards
are good enough and I'll pay attention.

>
>>   while others such as
>>> yourself disagree.
>>
>> **The only ones who think it's good enough are:
>>
>> * The COALition government
>> * The owners of most aged care facilities.
>>
>> EVERYONE else knows there are problems. Unless, like you, they have
>> their heads in the sand.
>
> Actually Trev, you should be praising the current government, as they're
> the only ones that I can recall in a very long time who has launched an
> inquiry into the aged care system, despite the system having been a mess
> for *decades* at the hands of many governments from either side of the
> political fence.

**They launched an inquiry, then ignored the recommendations.

>
>> Still, none of this changes the fact that the company
>>> who runs the facility has the freedom to provide the level of care
>>> they see fit.
>>
>> **Which needs to be adequately specified by the government, since
>> taxpayers foot a large chunk of the bill.
>
> So the government should not only foot the lion's share of the bill, but
> tell them how they have to run their business?

**Abso-fucking-lutely. The ones that can meet decent standards can be
left alone. I will say once more: The government gives these arseholes
BILLIONS of taxpayer Dollars every year. The government SHOULD have a
huge say in how the business is run. If the facilities don't want
government interference, then let them forego the free money.

>
> Why don't we just dispense with the middle man and have the Government
> do it all themselves?

**That would be ideal. Government run facilities are vastly more
efficient. No shareholders to pay.

>
>>> A line has to be drawn in the sand somewhere, and no matter where you
>>> draw it you'll never please everyone.
>>
>> **Get real. Shit food, inadequate staffing levels and no medical
>> professionals is the minimum that any reasonable person can expect.
>> Unless you happen to not give a shit.
>
> You understand that you're free to pick and choose where you want to go,
> and no one is *forced* into any particular facility, right? There are
> better options available that offer better services, but then you'll
> have to pay more for those services.

**No. I already explained to you that my sister and mother were in a
facility with excellent levels of care and food (which, BTW, I'd be
happy to pay for in a decent cafe), yet the profit for the owner was
respectable. I examined facilities that were double the price, yet
didn't offer the same level of care. Money doesn't buy better care.
You'd think it would, but it doesn't. It MIGHT buy you a better view, or
a nice coffee machine in common areas, but it won't, necessarily get you
24/7 nursing staff.

>
> What you generally don't get, and this is usually true with everything,
> is the best service at the cheapest price.

**Wrong. I explained to you before that the facility my mother and
sister were in was a low cost one. Not the cheapest I checked out, but
petty damned close.

>
>>   Like the current argument about
>>> medicare rebates for example. A lot of doctors are arguing that the
>>> rebate doesn't pay them enough and unless it's raised they will
>>> either have to cut back on services or stop bulk billing.
>>
>> **I note your attempt to change the topic.
>
> Note whatever you like, but the point is that fault of the aged care
> industry likes squarely at the feet of the people who run it, and that
> is *not* the government.
>
>>   No amount of government interference would
>>> ever change that, and if you're unhappy with the service on offer
>>> then you have the right to pack up and leave.
>>
>> **Spoken like someone who has no experience with the system. It ain't
>> that easy.
>
> Well, yeah, it is.
>
> You pay for X, but you want Y. But you're not prepared to pay for Y so
> you have to settle for X. That's pretty much how it works. The aged care
> business is a business like any other.

**Read what I wrote. Money doesn't buy better care. It just buys more
expensive furniture. Furniture is cheap. Nurses are not.

>
>>> Just out of curiosity, if your sister wasn't happy with where she
>>> was, why didn't she move?
>>
>> **My sister was non-communicative. She was totally reliant on her
>> carers, who failed her miserably. Due to COVID restrictions, my
>> brother-in-law was unable to visit her.
>
> I think a great many people suffered the same fate.

**She died from complications arising from bed sores. One was 160mm
across and bone was visible. It was horrific and the direct result of
the lack of care from the facility.

>
>> And, for the record: When she was admitted to the palliative care
>> section of the local hospital, we had a discussion about moving her to
>> a dedicated palliative care facility. Her doctors determined that she
>> was so weak, that the 5km trip would have killed her. My sister was
>> extremely ill. She looked worse than those people who spent their days
>> in Nazi concentration camps.
>>
>> If the COALition had bothered to implement the changes promised by
>> Labor, my sister may still be alive today.
>
> There's no possible way you can know that, and as sad as it is given the
> comments of the doctors that you've mentioned here it probably wouldn't
> have made any difference to her where she was.


Click here to read the complete article
Re: OT: The election...

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From: me...@home.com (Noddy)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: The election...
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 11:06:01 +1000
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 by: Noddy - Fri, 20 May 2022 01:06 UTC

On 20/05/2022 10:47 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 20/05/2022 10:14 am, Daryl wrote:

>> Agree if independents are truly independent which is something we can
>> never be 100% sure of.
>
> **Correct, which is why we should all vote Green.

ROTFL :)

Voting for the Greens is the political equivalent of walking around with
a flashing beacon on your head and a sign around your neck reading "I am
a fucking lunatic".

That's the *only* way anyone could ever think any of their policies make
any sense.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Re: OT: The election...

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From: notgo...@happen.com (Clocky)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: The election...
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 09:07:34 +0800
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 by: Clocky - Fri, 20 May 2022 01:07 UTC

On 20/05/2022 5:53 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 20/05/2022 6:39 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:

<snip>

>> **Correct. The COALition has refused to specify decent minimum
>> standards for aged care. They just don't care.
>
> "Decent" being the subjective term in this context. Some probably think
> the current minimum standard is decent enough, while others such as
> yourself disagree.

It's *not* "decent" enough period. Nursing home care is appallingly bad,
demoralising and dehumanised all over Australia everywhere you go.

It's just depressing. Staff are under the pump to "care" for as many
residents as possible in the shortest possible time. These places are
run like the elderly human being are just objects on a fucking
production line to be "cared" for in the fastest and cheapest method
possible to line the pockets of the cunts that run these places.

That fuckwit used car salesman Morrison has done absolutely nothing to
make sure there are checks and balances. Quality and welfare checks
should be done at random, without notice - for a start.

Re: OT: The election...

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From: tre...@rageaudio.com.au (Trevor Wilson)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: The election...
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 by: Trevor Wilson - Fri, 20 May 2022 01:11 UTC

On 20/05/2022 11:06 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 20/05/2022 10:47 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 20/05/2022 10:14 am, Daryl wrote:
>
>>> Agree if independents are truly independent which is something we can
>>> never be 100% sure of.
>>
>> **Correct, which is why we should all vote Green.
>
> ROTFL :)
>
> Voting for the Greens is the political equivalent of walking around with
> a flashing beacon on your head and a sign around your neck reading "I am
> a fucking lunatic".
>
> That's the *only* way anyone could ever think any of their policies make
> any sense.

**Typical. Read their policy documents sometime. YOu certainly won't
agree with all their policies (I know I don't), but they are consistent
and well thought through. Which is more than can be said of Labor, the
COALition and Palmer's bunch.

Re: OT: The election...

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Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: The election...
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 by: Clocky - Fri, 20 May 2022 01:12 UTC

On 19/05/2022 2:23 pm, Daryl wrote:

> That's the problem, why take the risk,

Because he and Labor can't be any worse than the useless mob we have now.

Jesus you are fucking stupid...

Re: OT: The election...

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From: tre...@rageaudio.com.au (Trevor Wilson)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: The election...
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 by: Trevor Wilson - Fri, 20 May 2022 01:13 UTC

On 20/05/2022 11:07 am, Clocky wrote:
> On 20/05/2022 5:53 am, Noddy wrote:
>> On 20/05/2022 6:39 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>> **Correct. The COALition has refused to specify decent minimum
>>> standards for aged care. They just don't care.
>>
>> "Decent" being the subjective term in this context. Some probably
>> think the current minimum standard is decent enough, while others such
>> as yourself disagree.
>
> It's *not* "decent" enough period. Nursing home care is appallingly bad,
> demoralising and dehumanised all over Australia everywhere you go.
>
> It's just depressing. Staff are under the pump to "care" for as many
> residents as possible in the shortest possible time. These places are
> run like the elderly human being are just objects on a fucking
> production line to be "cared" for in the fastest and cheapest method
> possible to line the pockets of the cunts that run these places.
>
> That fuckwit used car salesman Morrison has done absolutely nothing to
> make sure there are checks and balances. Quality and welfare checks
> should be done at random, without notice - for a start.

**Correct. Having visited 27 aged care facilities over the past 5 years,
I know my way around quite well. I can see the stuff that they don't
want casual visitors to notice.

Re: OT: The election...

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: The election...
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 by: Daryl - Fri, 20 May 2022 01:24 UTC

On 20/5/2022 10:47 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 20/05/2022 10:14 am, Daryl wrote:
>> On 20/5/2022 8:16 am, John_H wrote:
>>> Daryl wrote:
>>>> On 19/5/2022 10:23 am, John_H wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope you didn't put a major party at 1 which gets them  $3 or so for
>>>>> your vote (in spite of what others may say it's the taxpayer who pays
>>>>> for their shit).
>>>>>
>>>>> Also hope you never drew a prick on your ballot paper as one got
>>>>> elected last time (as I heard somewhere recently).  :)
>>>>>
>>>> I saw a sign on the hwy not far from here which says "Put the majors
>>>> last", not a bad idea but my electorate is a Labor stronghold so I vote
>>>> Liberal mostly in an attempt to weaken Labors hold on the electorate
>>>> and
>>>> to make it more marginal
>>>
>>> Someone once put one near my local polling booth that  read "DON'T
>>> VOTE IT ONLY ENCOURAGES THE BASTARDS" but I reckon the culprit was
>>> misguided!  That was at the time when I always put the sitting member
>>> from a major party last in the hope it would make us difficult to rule
>>> over.  Nowadays that position is reserved for Clive's lot...  not that
>>> it matters a shit since Bob Brown and his convoy converted a marginal
>>> electorate to a safe LNP seat and I suspect his legacy lives on.
>>>
>>>> At the last State election there was a significant swing away from
>>>> Labor
>>>> here so hopefully the same thing will happen at the Federal election.
>>>
>>> I can live with either at a pinch but neither have policies for some
>>> of the things that matter most to me.  Albanese comes across as a
>>> bumbling fool and Morrison is a lying arsehole who'd make a better
>>> used car salesman than PM, so take your pick.
>>
>> Agree neither is a great choice but I hate that elections have become
>> a leaders popularity contest rather than a vote about policy.
>> Decent political leadership has been sadly lacking for decades.
>
> **Wrong. Julia Gillard was an excellent leader. She managed a minority
> government with great skill and aplomb. As for policies, well Bill
> Shorten put a whole stack of excellent policies on the table at the last
> election. He was beaten by an ad-man with no policies at all.
>
>>
>>    I also have serious
>>> doubts about an entrenched two party system (take a look at the US).
>>
>> Know what you mean, its far from ideal but it is what it is, not much
>> can be done to change it.
>
> **Bullshit. We will likely see it at this election. The Greens and
> independents will probably end up with the balance of power. We may
> finally see some significant changes WRT climate change policies as a
> result.
>
>>
>>> In spite of the Happy Clapper's claim that independents cause chaos
>>> he's never had a majority government.  If Labor doesn't support him he
>>> needs independents to pass his legislation which is a bloody good
>>> thing in my book.
>>>
>> Agree if independents are truly independent which is something we can
>> never be 100% sure of.
>
> **Correct, which is why we should all vote Green.
>

LOL, they are a political party so therefore far from independent.
I prefer to stay in this century than go back to the dark ages.

--
Daryl

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 by: Daryl - Fri, 20 May 2022 01:29 UTC

On 20/5/2022 10:55 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 20/05/2022 8:35 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 20/05/2022 8:04 am, Noddy wrote:
>
>>>> **I am in that fucking moron, Craig Kelly's electorate. I can't wait
>>>> for him to be booted out. It's worth voting Liberal to see him go.
>>>
>>> Give it a try, but he'll probably be safe.
>>
>> **The most recent figures I saw were roughly:
>>
>> Lib: 37%
>> ULP: 9%
>> Lab: 18%
>> Ind: 28%
>> Green: 8%
>>
>> The Lib candidate looks to be a shoo-in, given Palmer directs
>> preferences to the COALition. Kelly will, thankfully, be gone.
>
> Hopefully. And if he got hit by a train on the way home from announcing
> his defeat that would be a sensational bonus.
>
>>>> However, I should remind you that it was Scummo who insisted that
>>>> Kelly be retained at the last election. The Libs had better choices,
>>>> but that fucking idiot, Scummo saved Kelly. I hope that act bites
>>>> him in the arse.
>>>
>>> Who were the better choices?
>>
>> **A ficus. ANYONE else.
>
> Lol :)
>
> I take your point :)
>
>>> I don't think anyone in the Liberal party had any particular love for
>>> Craig Kelly, but he was already the incumbent MP and Morrison's
>>> interest in "saving" him was for no reason other than for him to
>>> remain a Liberal bum on the seat in Parliament. It's not like the
>>> Libs have an overwhelming majority and could afford to lose a few.
>>
>> **Scummo is a moron, as exemplified by his choice in the Warringah
>> candidate. Deves is so desperately unpopular, that the Liberal
>> volunteers have deserted her and are assisting candidates in other
>> electorates. NO ONE wants her, except Scummo.
>
> Lets see how she does, but at the moment there is a *big* movement to
> give women a free kick because they think it's the popular thing to do.
> Personally I'm all for equality, but my version of it is for things to
> be exactly the same for everyone and that's not what people want.
>
>>> But it raises an interesting point about politics in this country
>>> that I'd like to see changed.
>>>
>>> If you stand as a candidate on a particular ticket, be it party or
>>> indipendent, and get elected on that ticket only to later change your
>>> allegiance and become a member of some other party or independent
>>> stance which was *not* what the electorate voted you in for then your
>>> position as an MP in parliament should be immediately suspended and a
>>> by-election should be held to see if the electorate supports your
>>> stance.
>>
>> **I am inclined to agree, despite the fact that there have been some
>> positive developments in that system. Lambie, et al.
>
> Fair point. Lambie is the one example I can think of where I was happy
> to see her move away from Palmer's asylum and go out on her own. She's a
> dynamic player who does a lot for her constituents and the Senate is a
> better place for her presence.
>>>
>>> It's simply not good enough for candidates to be elected on the
>>> promise of appealing to a particular group of voters only to run off
>>> and do whatever the fuck they like once they get elected.
>>
>> **Like pretty much everyone in Palmer's party.
>
> Pretty much. Including the absolute fucking *nutters* who think Covid
> vaccinations give you Aids. For fuck's sake. Do they not do *any* kind
> of psychological screening before selecting someone as a candidate? :)
>
>
>
Seems not:-)
Saw on the news last night that Pauline Hanson has Covid and she made a
funny comment that some people hoped she might die from it.
I got into trouble from SWMBO when I said that I did hope that Hanson
died, apparently I'm very mean:-)

--
Daryl

Re: OT: The election...

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From: john4...@hotmail.com (John_H)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: The election...
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 13:01:27 +1000
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 by: John_H - Fri, 20 May 2022 03:01 UTC

Trevor Wilson wrote:
>On 20/05/2022 10:16 am, John_H wrote:
>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 20/05/2022 8:13 am, John_H wrote:
>>>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On 19/05/2022 12:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>> On 19/5/2022 10:23 am, John_H wrote:
>>>>>>> lindsay wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm getting old... most shit on media that i observe, (television,
>>>>>>>> radio) doesnt really faze me.... But when you're force fed political
>>>>>>>> *SHIT*, that we have to pay for, I draw the line.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the last 10 mins, I've heard "there's a hole in your budget...) 4
>>>>>>>> times on prime time tv, , I heard it 4 times in 30 mins on TTFM this
>>>>>>>> morning before I punched the clock radio in the face and swapped to
>>>>>>>> digital.... I believe they actually changed it to a more modern track
>>>>>>>> today, but I havent heard it...thankfully.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm nearly happy, I voted early, so I dont have to stand around in a 45
>>>>>>>> minute queue with all the dirty fucks without a mask... I could lie, and
>>>>>>>> say I dont care who wins... I do.. but find the cunt who came up with
>>>>>>>> "theres a hole in your budget", and "put him in the curry" ffs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0n88tZQc4Q
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> put 'em *ALL* in the curry....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hope you didn't put a major party at 1 which gets them  $3 or so for
>>>>>>> your vote (in spite of what others may say it's the taxpayer who pays
>>>>>>> for their shit).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also hope you never drew a prick on your ballot paper as one got
>>>>>>> elected last time (as I heard somewhere recently).  :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I saw a sign on the hwy not far from here which says "Put the majors
>>>>>> last", not a bad idea but my electorate is a Labor stronghold so I vote
>>>>>> Liberal mostly in an attempt to weaken Labors hold on the electorate and
>>>>>> to make it more marginal.
>>>>>> At the last State election there was a significant swing away from Labor
>>>>>> here so hopefully the same thing will happen at the Federal election.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> **A vote for the COALition ensures:
>>>>>
>>>>> * That the smirking, religious fool, Scummo and his sidekick, Joyce will
>>>>> be returned to power. Don't forget: Joyce runs the country when Scummo
>>>>> is somewhere else.
>>>>> * That zero progress on reducing CO2 emissions will occur.
>>>>> * We will not have a Federal ICAC.
>>>>> * There will be unrestrained spending on useless car parks, sports rorts
>>>>> and all the other shit.
>>>>
>>>> Are you aware that Greens policy (you've previously claimed to be
>>>> familiar with) is specifically directed at thermal coal as opposed to
>>>> coking coal which is an essential component of steel making, at least
>>>> into the forseeable future?
>>>
>>> **Of course.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bob Brown certainly wasn't when he took his convoy to Clermont Q in
>>>> 2019, with the nearest mine (coking coal) less than 20km away and at
>>>> least 2 hours drive from the Adani site (thermal coal). Coking coal,
>>>> comprising most of Queensland's output, is mined in the Bowen basin,
>>>> whereas thermal coal is Galilee basin.
>>>
>>> **Bob Brown has not been a Greens leader for many years.
>>
>> Indeed, he was the one responsible for voting down Krudd's original
>> carbon pricing because it didn't include a ban on coal mining (nice
>> bloke but politically inept). Nowadays not even Labor supports a
>> carbon tax after they beating they copped at the end of their last
>> stint in office.
>>
>>>> In vilifying the entire industry you're giving the LNP another free
>>>> kick, just as Bob Brown did!
>>>
>>> **"Vilifying"? How so? I am simply stating fact. Using coal for power
>>> generation is a dead-end business. Everyone involved in that business
>>> should be well aware of that fact. Using coal to generate power is
>>> expensive and polluting.
>>
>> Always looks to me that you're happy to vilify anyone connected with
>> the coal industry same as anyone who doesn't accept *your* view on
>> climate change. Trouble is the mine workers see things exactly the
>> same way..
>
>**Points:
>
>It's not _MY_ view on climate change. I simply listen to the climate
>scientists. There can be no alternative. Burning fossil fuels is really
>dumb.
>
>Mine workers are a different problem. I recognise that, in many areas of
>Australia, there are few jobs other than mining (coal). That must
>change. Politicians must deliver programmes so that mine workers can
>re-train in careers that will serve them for the next few decades.

You're missing the point! Coking coal miners' jobs aren't under any
immediate threat so long as there's no substitute in steel production,
but try telling them that. They're the ones who kept the LNP in power
last time around (thermal coal is but a small part of total production
in Q) and will almost certainly prevent Labor from making any
significant inroads this time. With all due thanks to BB et al.

>However, ANY mine worker who has entered the industry in the past few
>years (personally, I would say the past two decades), expecting a long
>term employment is just a moron. They deserve what they get -
>unemployment. There is no long term future for thermal coal. I would
>also add that, as mechanisation increases, then the number of jobs
>decreases. BTW, coal mining employs less than 38,000 Australians:
>
>https://australiainstitute.org.au/post/how-many-coal-jobs-check-the-facts/
>
>A truly insignificant number of workers.
>
>>
>> Following Bob Brown's visit even the local CFMEU branch withdrew its
>> support from Labor.
>
>**I don't care for most unions. Some are OK. some are not. Most are run
>by dickheads. They are equivalent to our politicians.

Also a significant source of Labor politicians... Julia Gillard being
but one example. :)

--
John H

Re: OT: The election...

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From: tre...@rageaudio.com.au (Trevor Wilson)
Newsgroups: aus.cars
Subject: Re: OT: The election...
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 13:38:14 +1000
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In-Reply-To: <jeo97lFkfq9U1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Trevor Wilson - Fri, 20 May 2022 03:38 UTC

On 20/05/2022 11:29 am, Daryl wrote:
> On 20/5/2022 10:55 am, Noddy wrote:
>> On 20/05/2022 8:35 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 20/05/2022 8:04 am, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>>>> **I am in that fucking moron, Craig Kelly's electorate. I can't
>>>>> wait for him to be booted out. It's worth voting Liberal to see him
>>>>> go.
>>>>
>>>> Give it a try, but he'll probably be safe.
>>>
>>> **The most recent figures I saw were roughly:
>>>
>>> Lib: 37%
>>> ULP: 9%
>>> Lab: 18%
>>> Ind: 28%
>>> Green: 8%
>>>
>>> The Lib candidate looks to be a shoo-in, given Palmer directs
>>> preferences to the COALition. Kelly will, thankfully, be gone.
>>
>> Hopefully. And if he got hit by a train on the way home from
>> announcing his defeat that would be a sensational bonus.
>>
>>>>> However, I should remind you that it was Scummo who insisted that
>>>>> Kelly be retained at the last election. The Libs had better
>>>>> choices, but that fucking idiot, Scummo saved Kelly. I hope that
>>>>> act bites him in the arse.
>>>>
>>>> Who were the better choices?
>>>
>>> **A ficus. ANYONE else.
>>
>> Lol :)
>>
>> I take your point :)
>>
>>>> I don't think anyone in the Liberal party had any particular love
>>>> for Craig Kelly, but he was already the incumbent MP and Morrison's
>>>> interest in "saving" him was for no reason other than for him to
>>>> remain a Liberal bum on the seat in Parliament. It's not like the
>>>> Libs have an overwhelming majority and could afford to lose a few.
>>>
>>> **Scummo is a moron, as exemplified by his choice in the Warringah
>>> candidate. Deves is so desperately unpopular, that the Liberal
>>> volunteers have deserted her and are assisting candidates in other
>>> electorates. NO ONE wants her, except Scummo.
>>
>> Lets see how she does, but at the moment there is a *big* movement to
>> give women a free kick because they think it's the popular thing to
>> do. Personally I'm all for equality, but my version of it is for
>> things to be exactly the same for everyone and that's not what people
>> want.
>>
>>>> But it raises an interesting point about politics in this country
>>>> that I'd like to see changed.
>>>>
>>>> If you stand as a candidate on a particular ticket, be it party or
>>>> indipendent, and get elected on that ticket only to later change
>>>> your allegiance and become a member of some other party or
>>>> independent stance which was *not* what the electorate voted you in
>>>> for then your position as an MP in parliament should be immediately
>>>> suspended and a by-election should be held to see if the electorate
>>>> supports your stance.
>>>
>>> **I am inclined to agree, despite the fact that there have been some
>>> positive developments in that system. Lambie, et al.
>>
>> Fair point. Lambie is the one example I can think of where I was happy
>> to see her move away from Palmer's asylum and go out on her own. She's
>> a dynamic player who does a lot for her constituents and the Senate is
>> a better place for her presence.
>>>>
>>>> It's simply not good enough for candidates to be elected on the
>>>> promise of appealing to a particular group of voters only to run off
>>>> and do whatever the fuck they like once they get elected.
>>>
>>> **Like pretty much everyone in Palmer's party.
>>
>> Pretty much. Including the absolute fucking *nutters* who think Covid
>> vaccinations give you Aids. For fuck's sake. Do they not do *any* kind
>> of psychological screening before selecting someone as a candidate? :)
>>
>>
>>
> Seems not:-)
> Saw on the news last night that Pauline Hanson has Covid and she made a
> funny comment that some people hoped she might die from it.
> I got into trouble from SWMBO when I said that I did hope that Hanson
> died, apparently I'm very mean:-)
>

**Nope. It would serve her right.

Re: OT: The election...

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Subject: Re: OT: The election...
Date: Fri, 20 May 2022 13:40:15 +1000
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 by: Noddy - Fri, 20 May 2022 03:40 UTC

On 20/05/2022 11:05 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 20/05/2022 10:44 am, Noddy wrote:

>>
>> Yep, and there is nothing stopping a *single* facility from ever
>> supplying these things.
>
> **Yes, there is: Greed. It is up to the government to control their
> greed. Again: Taxpayers fund these bastards. It is up to the government
> to exert proper controls over them.

I see. So how much control over the running of private businesses do you
think the government should be entitled to?

>>> Whilst the government refuses to mandate such things, aged care
>>> providers will cut costs, staff and food quality.
>>
>> And yet you see the negligent actions of unscrupulous facility owners
>> as the fault of the government.
>
> **It is the fault of the facility owners and negligence on the part of
> the government to continue to fail to manage taxpayer funds.

They're not failing to manage taxpayer funds at all. They hand it out to
the care facility owners who are entitled to receive it, and how they
spend it is *their* responsibility.

>> It is *precisely* subjective Trevor. Your idea of "quality care" is
>> not everyone else's. Everyone's needs are different.
>
> **You're wrong. Those things are FUNDAMENTAL to quality care.

Yeah, but the government isn't in the "quality care" business Trevor.
Their involvement, such as it is, is to subsidise the aged care sector
to make it affordable for those who otherwise can't afford to be placed
at a more upmarket and significantly more expensive facility.

As I said to you. The government doesn't run the aged care sector. It
just subsidises it.

>>> It's all measurable and achievable. Sadly the owners of the aged care
>>> facilities may have to settle for a low end Ferrari.
>>
>> Again, you're sticking it to the wrong people. Those you *should* be
>> blaming are the unscrupulous care facility owners who treat their
>> clients like a meal ticket, and to be absolutely frank letting them
>> off the hook because you think the government doesn't provide adequate
>> funding is an absolute nonsense.
>
> **Of course I blame the owners of the facilities. I also blame the
> government for not mandating proper care.

We can go on like this forever.... :)

>> Right. So you've conducted a poll and found that everyone thinks that
>> way?
>
> **Tell you what: YOU find someone who thinks that the minimum standards
> are good enough and I'll pay attention.

It's not *my* job to prove *your* theories.

>> Actually Trev, you should be praising the current government, as
>> they're the only ones that I can recall in a very long time who has
>> launched an inquiry into the aged care system, despite the system
>> having been a mess for *decades* at the hands of many governments from
>> either side of the political fence.
>
> **They launched an inquiry, then ignored the recommendations.

Actually Trevor the Royal Commission into aged care made many
recommendations, but also created confusion and uncertainty within it's
findings with the commissioners themselves failing to agree on a number
of points.

> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-02/aged-care-royal-commission-final-report-key-takeaways/13203508

The 4 main points of the commission's final report should be adopted,
but the rest of it just seems to make the issue worse.

>> You understand that you're free to pick and choose where you want to
>> go, and no one is *forced* into any particular facility, right? There
>> are better options available that offer better services, but then
>> you'll have to pay more for those services.
>
> **No. I already explained to you that my sister and mother were in a
> facility with excellent levels of care and food (which, BTW, I'd be
> happy to pay for in a decent cafe), yet the profit for the owner was
> respectable. I examined facilities that were double the price, yet
> didn't offer the same level of care. Money doesn't buy better care.

Well then why does everyone concerned seem to be screaming that
inadequate funding is the principal cause for the lack of care?

> You'd think it would, but it doesn't. It MIGHT buy you a better view, or
> a nice coffee machine in common areas, but it won't, necessarily get you
> 24/7 nursing staff.

So what's the answer?

> **Wrong. I explained to you before that the facility my mother and
> sister were in was a low cost one. Not the cheapest I checked out, but
> petty damned close.

If that was the case, and I'm not doubting you, then it would seem to be
the exception rather than the rule.
>> You pay for X, but you want Y. But you're not prepared to pay for Y so
>> you have to settle for X. That's pretty much how it works. The aged
>> care business is a business like any other.
>
> **Read what I wrote. Money doesn't buy better care. It just buys more
> expensive furniture. Furniture is cheap. Nurses are not.

So then it *is* about money.

>>> **My sister was non-communicative. She was totally reliant on her
>>> carers, who failed her miserably. Due to COVID restrictions, my
>>> brother-in-law was unable to visit her.
>>
>> I think a great many people suffered the same fate.
>
> **She died from complications arising from bed sores. One was 160mm
> across and bone was visible. It was horrific and the direct result of
> the lack of care from the facility.

Again, you have no real way of knowing that given the comments of the
doctors. If, as you mentioned, the doctors treating her were of the
opinion that she was in such a frail condition that she was unlikely to
survive a trip of a few km's then it sounds like she was going to pass
away before long regardless of wherever she was.

>> There's no possible way you can know that, and as sad as it is given
>> the comments of the doctors that you've mentioned here it probably
>> wouldn't have made any difference to her where she was.
>
> **Read my words, VERY CAREFULLY.

I did. She was frail. She was on death's door. Her time was extremely
limited. That's what you seemed to be saying.
>>> I'll say again: Avoid entering aged care while the COALition is
>>> running things. The COALition acts to protect the companies that run
>>> aged care facilities. They do not act for residents.
>>
>> I can understand you being upset, but rubbish like this here isn't
>> doing you any favours.
>
> **It's fact, not rubbish.

Trevor, here's the current list of standards that Federally funded aged
care facilities are obliged to comply with:

> https://www.agedcarequality.gov.au/providers/standards

It's fairly extensive, and while I'm sure it wouldn't satisfy everyone,
it *is* the minimum standard that facilities are legally obligated to
provide.

If they're not doing that, then that is *not* the government's fault.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

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