Is it possible to swap the numbers on two SIM cards? I want to move a
number from O2 to ASDA, because ASDA has wifi calling and better
reception, but I don't want to lose the O2 Classic call prices, so it
would be good to move the ASDA number to it, or some other number.

Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
> Is it possible to swap the numbers on two SIM cards? I want to move a
> number from O2 to ASDA, because ASDA has wifi calling and better
> reception, but I don't want to lose the O2 Classic call prices, so it
> would be good to move the ASDA number to it, or some other number.

No, any time you port a number out it terminates your account at the network
it's leaving. You can't keep that account going with a new number.

(apart from perhaps special cases like multi-line contracts)

Theo

On 11/01/2024 17:42, Theo wrote:
> Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>> Is it possible to swap the numbers on two SIM cards? I want to move a
>> number from O2 to ASDA, because ASDA has wifi calling and better
>> reception, but I don't want to lose the O2 Classic call prices, so it
>> would be good to move the ASDA number to it, or some other number.
>
> No, any time you port a number out it terminates your account at the network
> it's leaving. You can't keep that account going with a new number.

He would have to port them both to a third party (like Tesco, or 1p etc)
then port them on to the desired final networks ?

Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
> On 11/01/2024 17:42, Theo wrote:
> > Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
> >> Is it possible to swap the numbers on two SIM cards? I want to move a
> >> number from O2 to ASDA, because ASDA has wifi calling and better
> >> reception, but I don't want to lose the O2 Classic call prices, so it
> >> would be good to move the ASDA number to it, or some other number.
> >
> > No, any time you port a number out it terminates your account at the network
> > it's leaving. You can't keep that account going with a new number.
>
> He would have to port them both to a third party (like Tesco, or 1p etc)
> then port them on to the desired final networks ?

O2 Classic PAYG is closed to new customers so he couldn't retain that, he'd
get whatever tariff O2 PAYG are offering today (which has much worse
pricing). There's no way to extract the number from the Classic SIM without
losing that tariff.

Theo

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:

> Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
>> On 11/01/2024 17:42, Theo wrote:
>> > Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>> >> Is it possible to swap the numbers on two SIM cards? I want to
>> >> move a number from O2 to ASDA, because ASDA has wifi calling and
>> >> better reception, but I don't want to lose the O2 Classic call
>> >> prices, so it would be good to move the ASDA number to it, or some
>> >> other number.
>> >
>> > No, any time you port a number out it terminates your account at
>> > the network it's leaving. You can't keep that account going with a
>> > new number.
>>
>> He would have to port them both to a third party (like Tesco, or 1p
>> etc) then port them on to the desired final networks ?
>
> O2 Classic PAYG is closed to new customers so he couldn't retain that,
> he'd get whatever tariff O2 PAYG are offering today (which has much
> worse pricing). There's no way to extract the number from the Classic
> SIM without losing that tariff.
>

Yes, I am stuffed unless I tell everyone I have changed my number, which
is daunting. The last time I did that the bank carried on using the old
one because their computer system didn't work properly, so I was unable
to do a credit card purchase.

Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
> Yes, I am stuffed unless I tell everyone I have changed my number, which
> is daunting. The last time I did that the bank carried on using the old
> one because their computer system didn't work properly, so I was unable
> to do a credit card purchase.

You could put both SIMs in a dual SIM phone. Data/SMS/calls out go via the
cheap number, incoming calls/SMS come in to your old number.

The main annoyance is when you call out with one number and have to explain
to people that you don't want them to call back on that number.

And lack of wifi calling on one SIM, if signal is a problem on that network.

Theo

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:

> Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>> Yes, I am stuffed unless I tell everyone I have changed my number,
>> which is daunting. The last time I did that the bank carried on using
>> the old one because their computer system didn't work properly, so I
>> was unable to do a credit card purchase.
>
> You could put both SIMs in a dual SIM phone. Data/SMS/calls out go
> via the cheap number, incoming calls/SMS come in to your old number.
>
> The main annoyance is when you call out with one number and have to
> explain to people that you don't want them to call back on that
> number.
>
> And lack of wifi calling on one SIM, if signal is a problem on that
> network.
>

I have them in a dual SIM already, but the old number which everyone
uses for incoming is on the O2 SIM, which is why it is such a pain, I
have to put the phone somewhere where there is a signal or I don't get
the calls. Maybe if an update to android 14 comes through wifi calling
will start working. I don't believe what O2 told me, that I have to pay
monthly, I didn't before with my previous phone, same SIM.

Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
> I have them in a dual SIM already, but the old number which everyone
> uses for incoming is on the O2 SIM, which is why it is such a pain, I
> have to put the phone somewhere where there is a signal or I don't get
> the calls. Maybe if an update to android 14 comes through wifi calling
> will start working. I don't believe what O2 told me, that I have to pay
> monthly, I didn't before with my previous phone, same SIM.

Another option would be to set up diverts from your O2 number to a different
number, eg the Asda, if O2 think your phone is unreachable. You'd pay for
the diverts out of your credit balance (at your normal call rates I think),
but perhaps that's acceptable if you don't get a lot of calls or they are
short?

https://community.o2.co.uk/t5/How-to-Guides/All-you-need-to-know-about-O2-Voicemail-901/ba-p/547712

Doesn't help so much for SMS though.

Wifi calling doesn't work for me on Android 14 / O2 classic PAYG.

Theo

On Friday 12 January 2024 at 15:34:51 UTC, Richmond wrote:
> Theo <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:
>
> > Richmond <dnom...@gmx.com> wrote:
> >> Yes, I am stuffed unless I tell everyone I have changed my number,
> >> which is daunting. The last time I did that the bank carried on using
> >> the old one because their computer system didn't work properly, so I
> >> was unable to do a credit card purchase.
> >
> > You could put both SIMs in a dual SIM phone. Data/SMS/calls out go
> > via the cheap number, incoming calls/SMS come in to your old number.
> >
> > The main annoyance is when you call out with one number and have to
> > explain to people that you don't want them to call back on that
> > number.
> >
> > And lack of wifi calling on one SIM, if signal is a problem on that
> > network.
> >
> I have them in a dual SIM already, but the old number which everyone
> uses for incoming is on the O2 SIM, which is why it is such a pain, I
> have to put the phone somewhere where there is a signal or I don't get
> the calls. Maybe if an update to android 14 comes through wifi calling
> will start working. I don't believe what O2 told me, that I have to pay
> monthly, I didn't before with my previous phone, same SIM.

Divert the O2 number to the other one when out of range. Small cost I suppose. Also try and find out whether O2 puts calls on 5G - if so get a 5G capable phone.

Texts work much better when in marginal coverage, and IIRC will queue for a while when your phone is unreachable.

PS FYI, my partner has O2 classic in SIM 1 for calls and texts and "data rewards" Three in SIM 2 for data until it runs out. Originally the 3 SIM was for work calls when she worked from home during Coivd.

PPS 25GB £8pm on O2 available: -
https://www.uswitch.com/mobiles/sim-only-deal/968ef5c58735a8cd83ae270fe284b6ade729467b/

"notya...@gmail.com" <notyalckram@gmail.com> writes:

> On Friday 12 January 2024 at 15:34:51 UTC, Richmond wrote:
>> Theo <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:
>>
>> > Richmond <dnom...@gmx.com> wrote: > Yes, I am stuffed unless I tell
>> >everyone I have changed my number, > which is daunting. The last
>> >time I did that the bank carried on using > the old one because
>> >their computer system didn't work properly, so I > was unable to do
>> >a credit card purchase.
>> >
>> > You could put both SIMs in a dual SIM phone. Data/SMS/calls out go
>> > via the cheap number, incoming calls/SMS come in to your old
>> > number.
>> >
>> > The main annoyance is when you call out with one number and have to
>> > explain to people that you don't want them to call back on that
>> > number.
>> >
>> > And lack of wifi calling on one SIM, if signal is a problem on that
>> > network.
>> >
>> I have them in a dual SIM already, but the old number which everyone
>> uses for incoming is on the O2 SIM, which is why it is such a pain, I
>> have to put the phone somewhere where there is a signal or I don't
>> get the calls. Maybe if an update to android 14 comes through wifi
>> calling will start working. I don't believe what O2 told me, that I
>> have to pay monthly, I didn't before with my previous phone, same
>> SIM.
>
> Divert the O2 number to the other one when out of range. Small cost I
> suppose. Also try and find out whether O2 puts calls on 5G - if so
> get a 5G capable phone.
>
> Texts work much better when in marginal coverage, and IIRC will queue
> for a while when your phone is unreachable.
>
> PS FYI, my partner has O2 classic in SIM 1 for calls and texts and
> "data rewards" Three in SIM 2 for data until it runs out. Originally
> the 3 SIM was for work calls when she worked from home during Coivd.
>
> PPS 25GB £8pm on O2 available: -
> https://www.uswitch.com/mobiles/sim-only-deal/968ef5c58735a8cd83ae270fe284b6ade729467b/

As far as I can tell call forwarding is not available on PAYG.

I don't want to buy a new phone because I have only just bought this
one, and that's where the wifi calling problems started. There is always
something not quite right about a smartphone I fear. They are too
complicated.

Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> writes:

> "notya...@gmail.com" <notyalckram@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Friday 12 January 2024 at 15:34:51 UTC, Richmond wrote:
>>> Theo <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:
>>>
>>> > Richmond <dnom...@gmx.com> wrote: > Yes, I am stuffed unless I
>>> >tell everyone I have changed my number, > which is daunting. The
>>> >last time I did that the bank carried on using > the old one
>>> >because their computer system didn't work properly, so I > was
>>> >unable to do a credit card purchase.
>>> >
>>> > You could put both SIMs in a dual SIM phone. Data/SMS/calls out go
>>> > via the cheap number, incoming calls/SMS come in to your old
>>> > number.
>>> >
>>> > The main annoyance is when you call out with one number and have
>>> > to explain to people that you don't want them to call back on that
>>> > number.
>>> >
>>> > And lack of wifi calling on one SIM, if signal is a problem on
>>> > that network.
>>> >
>>> I have them in a dual SIM already, but the old number which everyone
>>> uses for incoming is on the O2 SIM, which is why it is such a pain,
>>> I have to put the phone somewhere where there is a signal or I don't
>>> get the calls. Maybe if an update to android 14 comes through wifi
>>> calling will start working. I don't believe what O2 told me, that I
>>> have to pay monthly, I didn't before with my previous phone, same
>>> SIM.
>>
>> Divert the O2 number to the other one when out of range. Small cost
>> I suppose. Also try and find out whether O2 puts calls on 5G - if so
>> get a 5G capable phone.
>>
>> Texts work much better when in marginal coverage, and IIRC will queue
>> for a while when your phone is unreachable.
>>
>> PS FYI, my partner has O2 classic in SIM 1 for calls and texts and
>> "data rewards" Three in SIM 2 for data until it runs out. Originally
>> the 3 SIM was for work calls when she worked from home during Coivd.
>>
>> PPS 25GB £8pm on O2 available: -
>> https://www.uswitch.com/mobiles/sim-only-deal/968ef5c58735a8cd83ae270fe284b6ade729467b/
>
> As far as I can tell call forwarding is not available on PAYG.
>
> I don't want to buy a new phone because I have only just bought this
> one, and that's where the wifi calling problems started. There is
> always something not quite right about a smartphone I fear. They are
> too complicated.

I had a missed call today which went straight through to voicemail even
though reception was reasonable. The number was not in my contacts but I
have no call blocking or spam blocking. I am starting to suspect the
fault lies with O2. Perhaps they just want O2 classic customers to shift
to something else.

Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
> As far as I can tell call forwarding is not available on PAYG.

Hmm, I didn't know that, that's annoying. I suppose another option would be
to use a second phone (or a box like a Premicell) to hold the O2 SIM and
forward the call to your other phone. That could either be via a second SIM
and a suitable app, or converting it to VOIP and a VOIP app on your primary
phone. Then keep the phone/box in a place that does get signal reliably.

But then I'm not sure the point, if you want to keep your O2 SIM for the
cheap tariff but not actually use it aside from incoming calls.

> I don't want to buy a new phone because I have only just bought this
> one, and that's where the wifi calling problems started. There is always
> something not quite right about a smartphone I fear. They are too
> complicated.

Yes, trying to work around it does get increasingly complicated.

Random other thought: 1pmobile have a £30 per year tariff, which gives you
£30 credit and then 1p per min/SMS/MB, or a £36 per year tariff with inclusive
calls/data/250MB monthly. They use the EE network. Would that be
attractive enough to give up the O2 classic?

iD Mobile also still have a 3/2/1 PAYG tariff like O2 classic, just on the
Three network. It seems they do support Wifi Calling on PAYG. Maybe worth
getting a SIM to test out? It seems you have to buy a £6 bundle for the
first month but you can let the bundle expire and it reverts to standard
PAYG (you can think of that as a £6 price for the SIM).

Theo

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:

> iD Mobile also still have a 3/2/1 PAYG tariff like O2 classic, just on the
> Three network. It seems they do support Wifi Calling on PAYG. Maybe worth
> getting a SIM to test out? It seems you have to buy a £6 bundle for the
> first month but you can let the bundle expire and it reverts to standard
> PAYG (you can think of that as a £6 price for the SIM).
>
> Theo

I struggled to find out how much it costs to phone idmobile voicemail, it
is possibly 40p per minute with 1 minute minimum.

Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:
>
> > iD Mobile also still have a 3/2/1 PAYG tariff like O2 classic, just on
> > the Three network. It seems they do support Wifi Calling on PAYG.
> > Maybe worth getting a SIM to test out? It seems you have to buy a £6
> > bundle for the first month but you can let the bundle expire and it
> > reverts to standard PAYG (you can think of that as a £6 price for the
> > SIM).
> >
> > Theo
>
> I struggled to find out how much it costs to phone idmobile voicemail, it
> is possibly 40p per minute with 1 minute minimum.

Yes, it seems to be 40p/min:
https://www.idmobile.co.uk/help-and-advice/voicemail
second FAQ:

"Does it cost anything to use voicemail in the UK?

The calls you make to voicemail come out of your monthly minutes allowance.

If you run out of minutes you'll be charged the standard rate for using
voicemail, which is 40p per minute (with a one minute minimum call charge).

You'll also be charged the standard voicemail rate if you use the call back
service within voicemail."

However apparently the voicemail number is +44 7782 333 123 so if you were
to call this from a different phone having set a PIN code perhaps you could
access your voicemail without paying the 40p?

Theo

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:

> "Does it cost anything to use voicemail in the UK?
>
> The calls you make to voicemail come out of your monthly minutes allowance.
>

This is ambiguous as using PAYG you do not have a monthly minutes
allowance. Someone on a forum said it was 3p.

> If you run out of minutes you'll be charged the standard rate for using
> voicemail, which is 40p per minute (with a one minute minimum call charge).
>
> You'll also be charged the standard voicemail rate if you use the call back
> service within voicemail."
>
>
> However apparently the voicemail number is +44 7782 333 123 so if you were
> to call this from a different phone having set a PIN code perhaps you could
> access your voicemail without paying the 40p?
>

That might work. I could phone it free with Alexa.

Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:
>
> > "Does it cost anything to use voicemail in the UK?
> >
> > The calls you make to voicemail come out of your monthly minutes allowance.
> >
>
> This is ambiguous as using PAYG you do not have a monthly minutes
> allowance. Someone on a forum said it was 3p.

They have a monthly bundle system, like most PAYG operators these days. If
you have a bundle in place, it's taken out of that. If your bundle has
expired, it's 40p/min according to this paragraph:

> > If you run out of minutes you'll be charged the standard rate for using
> > voicemail, which is 40p per minute (with a one minute minimum call charge).

I think the forum person is guessing that it comes out of their minutes so
'must' be 3p, rather than having tried it?

Whether the 40p would also apply when calling the 07782 number is an
interesting question, but risk is that it has its own special tariff banding
and so counts as the 40p/min voicemail charge.

It feels like they aren't really set up for traditional PAYG so loopholes
like this could exist. Or the info on their website could be out of date.

> That might work. I could phone it free with Alexa.

Or your Asda SIM...

Theo