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aus+uk / uk.transport.london / Letter bus routes

SubjectAuthor
* Letter bus routesMuttley
+* Re: Letter bus routesV Vaznais
|`- Re: Letter bus routesRecliner
`* Re: Letter bus routesKen
 +* Re: Letter bus routesBlueshirt
 |`- Re: Letter bus routesRecliner
 `* Re: Letter bus routesMuttley
  +* Re: Letter bus routesBlueshirt
  |`- Re: Letter bus routesRecliner
  `- Re: Letter bus routesKen

1
Letter bus routes

<uoo3fr$17s6q$1@dont-email.me>

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Letter bus routes
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2024 10:13:15 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Tue, 23 Jan 2024 10:13 UTC

Why do some bus routes have a letter in front? Eg Hxx as seen in the
Harrow area or Wxx as seen in Enfield. Why not just given them a number, its
not as if there's a limited supply of them?

Re: Letter bus routes

<hQ5sN.2609562$ee1.1937408@fx16.ams4>

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 by: V Vaznais - Wed, 24 Jan 2024 10:42 UTC

On 23/01/2024 10:13, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> Why do some bus routes have a letter in front? Eg Hxx as seen in the
> Harrow area or Wxx as seen in Enfield. Why not just given them a number, its
> not as if there's a limited supply of them?
>

Special routes? E.g. Superloop.

Re: Letter bus routes

<sto1ri9ptcu0o658d4jj4f5l2rgp4nj8v0@4ax.com>

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From: ken...@birchanger.com (Ken)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Letter bus routes
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Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 10:48:15 +0000
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 by: Ken - Wed, 24 Jan 2024 10:48 UTC

On Tue, 23 Jan 2024 10:13:15 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
wrote:

>Why do some bus routes have a letter in front? Eg Hxx as seen in the
>Harrow area or Wxx as seen in Enfield. Why not just given them a number, its
>not as if there's a limited supply of them?

There WAS at one time a limited supply. In LT days Central (red) bus
numbers were numbered from 1 - 299 (and I think that the top third of
the range was used for single-decker routes). 3xx was for green
Country area buses roughly north of the Thames; 4xx was Country buses
south of the Thames; 5xx and 6xx were trolleybuses and 7xx were Green
Line coaches. I don't know what flexibility there was but I suspect
that these ranges were imposed externally, possibly by the Transport
Commissioners of the Met Police, at one time.

In 1968 LT started rolling out its Reshaping London's Buses programme.
This was intended to be a wholesale rethink of how bus services should
be operated at a time of increasing congestion and falling usage. Many
routes were split into two to improve reliability and various others
ran as two or three shorter, overlapping, sections sharing a route
number, at least during the week. More, shorter, routes used more
numbers.

Reshaping London's Buses was done one area at a time. The first was
Wood Green in September 1968. A radical part of the scheme was a
network of short-distance, one-man (in those days), single-decker,
flat-fare 'standee' (limited seating) buses. These all had the W
prefix, signifying Wood Green.

Other early schemes were at Ealing (E) and Walthamstow (also W for the
W21). Several other regional reorganisations, some much later, used
other letter prefixes for new short-distance services.

Around this time the Red Arrow services were introduced, sharing the
characteristics of the other flat-fare routes. These took numbers in
the early 5xx range, there not being any trolleybuses around any more.
The old scheme was breaking down.

Other early routes with non-standard numbers were the A1, A2 and A3
routes linking central London with Heathrow.

Then at the start of 1970 the Country Area was split off into the
London Country Bus Services constituent of the National Bus Company.
LCBS had the same management and traditions as it always had so the
route numbering was unchanged, and routes in a doughnut around London
retained 3xx and 4xx numbers. LT continued to stick to 100-299 for
most bus routes.

Step forward to bus privatisation. LCBS was split into four, regional,
companies and sold off. A free for all followed and the route
numbering traditions were, to an extent, lost. LT Buses no longer felt
the need to avoid higher route numbers and started using route numbers
in the 300s and 400s. Over time, many of the 1960s lettered routes had
regained plain old route numbers, but some memory of those days
remains. And others have been added, such as the EL routes in east
London.

But, in short, I don't know the answer to your question! I also
apologise for a history entirely from memory. It may be undiluted
bollocks.

Re: Letter bus routes

<xn0oh7k7s1c2hk8000@news.eternal-september.org>

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From: bluesh...@indigo.news (Blueshirt)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Letter bus routes
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 14:24:49 +0000
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 by: Blueshirt - Wed, 24 Jan 2024 14:24 UTC

Ken wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Jan 2024 10:13:15 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
> wrote:
>
> > Why do some bus routes have a letter in front? Eg Hxx as seen in
> > the Harrow area or Wxx as seen in Enfield. Why not just given
> > them a number, its not as if there's a limited supply of them?
>
> [Snip]
>
> But, in short, I don't know the answer to your question!

I do remember [in the mid-1980's) a W21 bus that used to serve
Walthamstow Central station, plus an S1 & S2 around the Stratford
area... all of which were loop services. (Bus station to bus
station.) So I always assumed the 'letter' services were a local
service type of thing. W for Walthamstow, S for Stratford (etc.) ...

Re: Letter bus routes

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Letter bus routes
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 by: Recliner - Wed, 24 Jan 2024 14:31 UTC

On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 10:42:20 +0000, V Vaznais <v.vaznais@icloud.com> wrote:

>On 23/01/2024 10:13, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> Why do some bus routes have a letter in front? Eg Hxx as seen in the
>> Harrow area or Wxx as seen in Enfield. Why not just given them a number, its
>> not as if there's a limited supply of them?
>>
>
>Special routes? E.g. Superloop.

Those are different to the many local routes. For example, Harrow alone has at least eight 'H' routes and Ealing has at
least seven 'E' routes.

Re: Letter bus routes

<or72ri1psg1su1un2m79rlcq51s8hihpfj@4ax.com>

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Letter bus routes
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 by: Recliner - Wed, 24 Jan 2024 14:32 UTC

On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 14:24:49 +0000, "Blueshirt" <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:

>Ken wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 23 Jan 2024 10:13:15 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Why do some bus routes have a letter in front? Eg Hxx as seen in
>> > the Harrow area or Wxx as seen in Enfield. Why not just given
>> > them a number, its not as if there's a limited supply of them?
>>
>> [Snip]
>>
>> But, in short, I don't know the answer to your question!
>
>I do remember [in the mid-1980's) a W21 bus that used to serve
>Walthamstow Central station, plus an S1 & S2 around the Stratford
>area... all of which were loop services. (Bus station to bus
>station.) So I always assumed the 'letter' services were a local
>service type of thing. W for Walthamstow, S for Stratford (etc.) ...

Yes, I think that's right.

Re: Letter bus routes

<uorctp$1sb4i$1@dont-email.me>

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Letter bus routes
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 16:12:41 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Wed, 24 Jan 2024 16:12 UTC

On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 10:48:15 +0000
Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>south of the Thames; 5xx and 6xx were trolleybuses and 7xx were Green

There's a limited school red bus service near me that is 6xx something. AFAIK
the general public can also use it as I've seen non kids get on it but I
imagine it only runs a few times a day to school and from school.

>retained 3xx and 4xx numbers. LT continued to stick to 100-299 for
>most bus routes.

There are definately london buses with numbers < 100.

>But, in short, I don't know the answer to your question! I also
>apologise for a history entirely from memory. It may be undiluted
>bollocks.

:o)

Its probably historic reasons then I suppose. Seems a bit odd they haven't
been renumbered by now however.

Re: Letter bus routes

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From: bluesh...@indigo.news (Blueshirt)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Letter bus routes
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2024 17:03:01 +0000
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 by: Blueshirt - Wed, 24 Jan 2024 17:03 UTC

Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 10:48:15 +0000
> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>
> > retained 3xx and 4xx numbers. LT continued to stick to 100-299 for
> > most bus routes.
>
> There are definately london buses with numbers < 100.

Yes 100%.

When I lived in East London the 69 went from Chingford to the ferry
at North Woolwich (via Walthamstow - Leyton - Stratford - Canning
Town) and that was the 1970's to the early 2000's.

There was also a 58 that did Walthamstow to Canning Town via a
different route, and a 25 that went through Stratford from the city
out to Ilford.

I'm sure we can all remember other sub 100 bus routes... in the days
of the Red Bus Rover I'm sure I was on plenty of them!

Re: Letter bus routes

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 by: Recliner - Thu, 25 Jan 2024 00:59 UTC

Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
> Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 10:48:15 +0000
>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>
>>> retained 3xx and 4xx numbers. LT continued to stick to 100-299 for
>>> most bus routes.
>>
>> There are definately london buses with numbers < 100.
>
> Yes 100%.
>
> When I lived in East London the 69 went from Chingford to the ferry
> at North Woolwich (via Walthamstow - Leyton - Stratford - Canning
> Town) and that was the 1970's to the early 2000's.
>
> There was also a 58 that did Walthamstow to Canning Town via a
> different route, and a 25 that went through Stratford from the city
> out to Ilford.
>
> I'm sure we can all remember other sub 100 bus routes... in the days
> of the Red Bus Rover I'm sure I was on plenty of them!

There's almost a full set of single and double digit routes:

http://londonbusroutes.net/routes.htm#M1

Re: Letter bus routes

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From: ken...@birchanger.com (Ken)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Letter bus routes
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 by: Ken - Thu, 25 Jan 2024 09:23 UTC

On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 16:12:41 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
wrote:

>On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 10:48:15 +0000
>Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>south of the Thames; 5xx and 6xx were trolleybuses and 7xx were Green
>
>There's a limited school red bus service near me that is 6xx something. AFAIK
>the general public can also use it as I've seen non kids get on it but I
>imagine it only runs a few times a day to school and from school.
>
>>retained 3xx and 4xx numbers. LT continued to stick to 100-299 for
>>most bus routes.
>
>There are definately london buses with numbers < 100.

Sorry, typo.
>
>>But, in short, I don't know the answer to your question! I also
>>apologise for a history entirely from memory. It may be undiluted
>>bollocks.
>
>:o)
>
>Its probably historic reasons then I suppose. Seems a bit odd they haven't
>been renumbered by now however.


aus+uk / uk.transport.london / Letter bus routes

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server_pubkey.txt

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