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aus+uk / uk.transport.london / Here we go again, another "tram" bus

SubjectAuthor
* Here we go again, another "tram" busMuttley
+* Re: Here we go again, another "tram" busRecliner
|+* Re: Here we go again, another "tram" busMuttley
||`- Re: Here we go again, another "tram" busAndy Burns
|`- Re: Here we go again, another "tram" busAndy Burns
+* Re: Here we go again, another "tram" busAndy Burns
|`- Re: Here we go again, another "tram" busMuttley
`* Re: Here we go again, another "tram" busStephen O'Connell
 `* Re: Here we go again, another "tram" busTheo
  +- Re: Here we go again, another "tram" busMuttley
  +* Re: Here we go again, another "tram" busRecliner
  |`- Re: Here we go again, another "tram" busMuttley
  +* Re: Here we go again, another "tram" busStephen O'Connell
  |`- Re: Here we go again, another "tram" busMuttley
  +- Re: Here we go again, another "tram" busMarland
  `- Re: Here we go again, another "tram" busGraeme Wall

1
Here we go again, another "tram" bus

<upq9d9$7pd3$1@dont-email.me>

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Here we go again, another "tram" bus
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2024 09:22:49 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Mon, 5 Feb 2024 09:22 UTC

It seems these things come around once every 10 years or so:

https://www.route-one.net/news/irizar-ie-tram-fleet-for-go-ahead-london-makes-de
but/

A curved front end and covered wheels and LO! We have a "tram" bus.

No, I don't think so. Its a small electric bus and it will be just like every
other bus but nice try with the marketing TfL.

Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus

<w_1wN.86509$c1y8.69398@fx15.ams1>

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Subject: Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus
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 by: Recliner - Mon, 5 Feb 2024 09:36 UTC

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> It seems these things come around once every 10 years or so:
>
> https://www.route-one.net/news/irizar-ie-tram-fleet-for-go-ahead-london-makes-de
> but/
>
> A curved front end and covered wheels and LO! We have a "tram" bus.
>
> No, I don't think so. Its a small electric bus and it will be just like every
> other bus but nice try with the marketing TfL.
>
>

That report was from 2022. They appear not to have entered service yet,
despite being due to do so last year.

https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-0869-2324

Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus

<upqc45$87c9$1@dont-email.me>

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2024 10:09:09 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Mon, 5 Feb 2024 10:09 UTC

On Mon, 05 Feb 2024 09:36:28 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> It seems these things come around once every 10 years or so:
>>
>>
>https://www.route-one.net/news/irizar-ie-tram-fleet-for-go-ahead-london-makes-d
>e
>> but/
>>
>> A curved front end and covered wheels and LO! We have a "tram" bus.
>>
>> No, I don't think so. Its a small electric bus and it will be just like every
>
>> other bus but nice try with the marketing TfL.
>>
>>
>
>That report was from 2022. They appear not to have entered service yet,
>despite being due to do so last year.

Something more recent popped up on my phone but that was the best one for
cutting and pasting.

>https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-de
>tail?referenceId=FOI-0869-2324

"Power connections and land ownership have been the cause of delay."

Power fair enough though surely it can't be that hard to sort, how many
recharge stations do they need? But don't TfL own their own bus stops?

Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus

<l2bqouF90b7U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: use...@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2024 10:14:54 +0000
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 by: Andy Burns - Mon, 5 Feb 2024 10:14 UTC

Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:

> <https://www.route-one.net/news/irizar-ie-tram-fleet-for-go-ahead-london-makes-debut>
>
> Its a small electric bus

Five minutes of "opportunity charging" at each end of a 15 mile route
doesn't sound gentle on the batteries ...

Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus

<l2br4oF90b7U2@mid.individual.net>

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From: use...@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2024 10:21:11 +0000
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 by: Andy Burns - Mon, 5 Feb 2024 10:21 UTC

Recliner wrote:

> That report was from 2022. They appear not to have entered service yet,
> despite being due to do so last year.
>
> <https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-0869-2324>

Now expected June 2024

<https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-3532-2324>

Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus

<upqd0u$8c7o$1@dont-email.me>

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Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2024 10:24:30 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Mon, 5 Feb 2024 10:24 UTC

On Mon, 5 Feb 2024 10:14:54 +0000
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>
>>
><https://www.route-one.net/news/irizar-ie-tram-fleet-for-go-ahead-london-makes-
>debut>
>>
>> Its a small electric bus
>
>Five minutes of "opportunity charging" at each end of a 15 mile route
>doesn't sound gentle on the batteries ...

On the plus side, at least it'll be outdoors when the batteries burst into
flames unlike the recent eletric bus fires :)

Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus

<l2bsegF90b7U4@mid.individual.net>

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Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus
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 by: Andy Burns - Mon, 5 Feb 2024 10:43 UTC

Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:

> Power fair enough though surely it can't be that hard to sort, how many
> recharge stations do they need?

One at Crystal Palace the other at Orpington (in practice it might be
sensible to have more than one charger at each station).

Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus

<xn0ohpnts3eeevt007@reader.xsnews.nl>

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From: stepheno...@usenet.ie (Stephen O'Connell)
Subject: Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus
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 by: Stephen O'Conne - Mon, 5 Feb 2024 10:47 UTC

Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:

>It seems these things come around once every 10 years or so:
>
>https://www.route-one.net/news/irizar-ie-tram-fleet-for-go-ahead-london-makes-de
>but/
>
>A curved front end and covered wheels and LO! We have a "tram" bus.

If two of those buses were joined together they'd make a lovely tram. :-)

Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus

<+Nn*TddCz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus
Date: 05 Feb 2024 11:17:10 +0000 (GMT)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
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 by: Theo - Mon, 5 Feb 2024 11:17 UTC

Stephen O'Connell <stephenoconnell@usenet.ie> wrote:
> Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>
> >It seems these things come around once every 10 years or so:
> >
> >https://www.route-one.net/news/irizar-ie-tram-fleet-for-go-ahead-london-makes-de
> >but/
> >
> >A curved front end and covered wheels and LO! We have a "tram" bus.
>
> If two of those buses were joined together they'd make a lovely tram. :-)

Irizar make a bendy version:
https://irizar-emobility.com/en/vehicles/irizar-ie-tram

Despite the branding, even they admit it's a bus.

Although, TBF, once you have an articulated vehicle and electric powertrain
you're starting to look a bit like the rubber tyred trams used in some
places - main remaining difference is the lack of guidance infrastructure
and dedicated right of way, meaning these will inevitably get stuck in
traffic. If you put them on a dedicated road like the Gosport busway you
inch towards being tram-like. They'll never grow beyond two vehicles which
limits capacity, but maybe in sleepy places like Gosport?

Theo

Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus

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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Mon, 5 Feb 2024 11:20 UTC

On 05 Feb 2024 11:17:10 +0000 (GMT)
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>Stephen O'Connell <stephenoconnell@usenet.ie> wrote:
>> Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>
>> >It seems these things come around once every 10 years or so:
>> >
>>
>>https://www.route-one.net/news/irizar-ie-tram-fleet-for-go-ahead-london-makes-
>de
>> >but/
>> >
>> >A curved front end and covered wheels and LO! We have a "tram" bus.
>>
>> If two of those buses were joined together they'd make a lovely tram. :-)
>
>Irizar make a bendy version:
>https://irizar-emobility.com/en/vehicles/irizar-ie-tram
>
>Despite the branding, even they admit it's a bus.
>
>Although, TBF, once you have an articulated vehicle and electric powertrain
>you're starting to look a bit like the rubber tyred trams used in some
>places - main remaining difference is the lack of guidance infrastructure

Been on the Clermont Ferrand ribber tyred tram. Dreadful - bouncy ride and
goes slow due to the risk of derailment from the single guide rail. Caens
had one too but sensibly ditched it for a proper tram a few years ago.

Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus

<uB3wN.12947$idBb.4267@fx08.ams1>

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 by: Recliner - Mon, 5 Feb 2024 11:26 UTC

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Stephen O'Connell <stephenoconnell@usenet.ie> wrote:
>> Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>
>>> It seems these things come around once every 10 years or so:
>>>
>>> https://www.route-one.net/news/irizar-ie-tram-fleet-for-go-ahead-london-makes-de
>>> but/
>>>
>>> A curved front end and covered wheels and LO! We have a "tram" bus.
>>
>> If two of those buses were joined together they'd make a lovely tram. :-)
>
> Irizar make a bendy version:
> https://irizar-emobility.com/en/vehicles/irizar-ie-tram
>
> Despite the branding, even they admit it's a bus.
>
> Although, TBF, once you have an articulated vehicle and electric powertrain
> you're starting to look a bit like the rubber tyred trams used in some
> places - main remaining difference is the lack of guidance infrastructure
> and dedicated right of way, meaning these will inevitably get stuck in
> traffic. If you put them on a dedicated road like the Gosport busway you
> inch towards being tram-like. They'll never grow beyond two vehicles which
> limits capacity, but maybe in sleepy places like Gosport?
>

https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157655400441705/

Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus

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From: stepheno...@usenet.ie (Stephen O'Connell)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2024 11:31:44 -0000
Message-ID: <MPG.402ad77d2827d36f989680@reader.xsnews.nl>
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 by: Stephen O'Conne - Mon, 5 Feb 2024 11:31 UTC

In article <+Nn*TddCz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk says...
>
> Stephen O'Connell <stephenoconnell@usenet.ie> wrote:
> > Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> >
> > >It seems these things come around once every 10 years or so:
> > >
> > >https://www.route-one.net/news/irizar-ie-tram-fleet-for-go-ahead-london-makes-de
> > >but/
> > >
> > >A curved front end and covered wheels and LO! We have a "tram" bus.
> >
> > If two of those buses were joined together they'd make a lovely tram. :-)
>
> Irizar make a bendy version:
> https://irizar-emobility.com/en/vehicles/irizar-ie-tram
>
> Despite the branding, even they admit it's a bus.

I'm not a fan of bendy buses but I do like that, it's very
smart.

> Although, TBF, once you have an articulated vehicle and electric powertrain
> you're starting to look a bit like the rubber tyred trams used in some
> places - main remaining difference is the lack of guidance infrastructure
> and dedicated right of way, meaning these will inevitably get stuck in
> traffic. If you put them on a dedicated road like the Gosport busway you
> inch towards being tram-like. They'll never grow beyond two vehicles which
> limits capacity, but maybe in sleepy places like Gosport?

If you looked at it quickly you'd say 'tram'!

Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2024 11:33:04 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Mon, 5 Feb 2024 11:33 UTC

On Mon, 05 Feb 2024 11:26:18 GMT
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> Stephen O'Connell <stephenoconnell@usenet.ie> wrote:
>>> Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> It seems these things come around once every 10 years or so:
>>>>
>>>>
>https://www.route-one.net/news/irizar-ie-tram-fleet-for-go-ahead-london-makes-d
>e
>>>> but/
>>>>
>>>> A curved front end and covered wheels and LO! We have a "tram" bus.
>>>
>>> If two of those buses were joined together they'd make a lovely tram. :-)
>>
>> Irizar make a bendy version:
>> https://irizar-emobility.com/en/vehicles/irizar-ie-tram
>>
>> Despite the branding, even they admit it's a bus.
>>
>> Although, TBF, once you have an articulated vehicle and electric powertrain
>> you're starting to look a bit like the rubber tyred trams used in some
>> places - main remaining difference is the lack of guidance infrastructure
>> and dedicated right of way, meaning these will inevitably get stuck in
>> traffic. If you put them on a dedicated road like the Gosport busway you
>> inch towards being tram-like. They'll never grow beyond two vehicles which
>> limits capacity, but maybe in sleepy places like Gosport?
>>
>
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157655400441705/

I can imagine they'd be a handful in slippery conditions. Does Lucern get much
wintery weather?

Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
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Subject: Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2024 11:33:59 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Mon, 5 Feb 2024 11:33 UTC

On Mon, 5 Feb 2024 11:31:44 -0000
Stephen O'Connell <stephenoconnell@usenet.ie> wrote:
>In article <+Nn*TddCz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
>theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk says...
>>
>> Stephen O'Connell <stephenoconnell@usenet.ie> wrote:
>> > Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> >
>> > >It seems these things come around once every 10 years or so:
>> > >
>> >
>>https://www.route-one.net/news/irizar-ie-tram-fleet-for-go-ahead-london-makes-
>de
>> > >but/
>> > >
>> > >A curved front end and covered wheels and LO! We have a "tram" bus.
>> >
>> > If two of those buses were joined together they'd make a lovely tram. :-)
>>
>> Irizar make a bendy version:
>> https://irizar-emobility.com/en/vehicles/irizar-ie-tram
>>
>> Despite the branding, even they admit it's a bus.
>
>I'm not a fan of bendy buses but I do like that, it's very
>smart.
>
>> Although, TBF, once you have an articulated vehicle and electric powertrain
>> you're starting to look a bit like the rubber tyred trams used in some
>> places - main remaining difference is the lack of guidance infrastructure
>> and dedicated right of way, meaning these will inevitably get stuck in
>> traffic. If you put them on a dedicated road like the Gosport busway you
>> inch towards being tram-like. They'll never grow beyond two vehicles which
>> limits capacity, but maybe in sleepy places like Gosport?
>
>If you looked at it quickly you'd say 'tram'!

Then you'd look at it again and say "Oh shit, another bloody hopper style bus".

Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus

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Subject: Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus
Date: 5 Feb 2024 18:37:32 GMT
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 by: Marland - Mon, 5 Feb 2024 18:37 UTC

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Irizar make a bendy version:
> https://irizar-emobility.com/en/vehicles/irizar-ie-tram
>
> Despite the branding, even they admit it's a bus.
>
> Although, TBF, once you have an articulated vehicle and electric powertrain
> you're starting to look a bit like the rubber tyred trams used in some
> places - main remaining difference is the lack of guidance infrastructure
> and dedicated right of way, meaning these will inevitably get stuck in
> traffic. If you put them on a dedicated road like the Gosport busway you
> inch towards being tram-like. They'll never grow beyond two vehicles which
> limits capacity, but maybe in sleepy places like Gosport?
>
> Theo
>

Irizar will have to wait for Gosport, First Bus are in the process of
introducing a Fleet of Electrics from
Wrightbus based at their Hoeford Depot.
As this recent BBC news snippet points out
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-68075795>
the depot was once home to the fleet of trams that once served Fareham and
Gosport so it is a return to electric traction for the site though the
power station therehas long gone. Unlike neighbouring Portsmouth Gosport
and Fareham went straight from Tram to Motorbus in 1929 whereas Portsmouth
stayed electric for a while longer with Trolleybuses .

GH

Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: Here we go again, another "tram" bus
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2024 08:35:20 +0000
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 by: Graeme Wall - Tue, 6 Feb 2024 08:35 UTC

On 05/02/2024 11:17, Theo wrote:
> Stephen O'Connell <stephenoconnell@usenet.ie> wrote:
>> Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>
>>> It seems these things come around once every 10 years or so:
>>>
>>> https://www.route-one.net/news/irizar-ie-tram-fleet-for-go-ahead-london-makes-de
>>> but/
>>>
>>> A curved front end and covered wheels and LO! We have a "tram" bus.
>>
>> If two of those buses were joined together they'd make a lovely tram. :-)
>
> Irizar make a bendy version:
> https://irizar-emobility.com/en/vehicles/irizar-ie-tram
>
> Despite the branding, even they admit it's a bus.
>
> Although, TBF, once you have an articulated vehicle and electric powertrain
> you're starting to look a bit like the rubber tyred trams used in some
> places - main remaining difference is the lack of guidance infrastructure
> and dedicated right of way, meaning these will inevitably get stuck in
> traffic. If you put them on a dedicated road like the Gosport busway you
> inch towards being tram-like. They'll never grow beyond two vehicles which
> limits capacity, but maybe in sleepy places like Gosport?
>

I wouldn't describe Gosport as sleepy!

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.


aus+uk / uk.transport.london / Here we go again, another "tram" bus

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