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aus+uk / uk.transport.london / routemasters are back in London

SubjectAuthor
* routemasters are back in LondonTitus_Atomicus@somewhere.in.the.world
+* Re: routemasters are back in LondonRecliner
|`* Re: routemasters are back in LondonTitus_Atomicus@somewhere.in.the.world
| `* Re: routemasters are back in LondonRecliner
|  +* Re: routemasters are back in LondonKen
|  |+- Re: routemasters are back in LondonGraeme Wall
|  |`* Re: routemasters are back in LondonRecliner
|  | `* Re: routemasters are back in LondonKen
|  |  +* Re: routemasters are back in LondonMuttley
|  |  |+* Re: routemasters are back in LondonRecliner
|  |  ||`* Re: routemasters are back in LondonMuttley
|  |  || `- Re: routemasters are back in LondonJulian Macassey
|  |  |+* Re: routemasters are back in LondonBlueshirt
|  |  ||+- Re: routemasters are back in LondonMuttley
|  |  ||`- Re: routemasters are back in LondonGraeme Wall
|  |  |`* Re: routemasters are back in LondonKen
|  |  | +* Re: routemasters are back in LondonMuttley
|  |  | |`* Re: routemasters are back in LondonKen
|  |  | | `- Re: routemasters are back in LondonMuttley
|  |  | `* Re: routemasters are back in LondonGraeme Wall
|  |  |  +* Re: routemasters are back in LondonMuttley
|  |  |  |`- Re: routemasters are back in LondonGraeme Wall
|  |  |  `* Re: routemasters are back in LondonMarland
|  |  |   `* Re: routemasters are back in LondonGraeme Wall
|  |  |    `- Re: routemasters are back in LondonMarland
|  |  `- Re: routemasters are back in LondonRecliner
|  `* Re: routemasters are back in LondonTitus_Atomicus@somewhere.in.the.world
|   +* Re: routemasters are back in LondonRecliner
|   |+* Re: routemasters are back in LondonGraeme Wall
|   ||`* Re: routemasters are back in LondonRecliner
|   || +* Re: routemasters are back in LondonTheo
|   || |`* Re: routemasters are back in LondonRecliner
|   || | `* Re: routemasters are back in LondonTheo
|   || |  `* Re: routemasters are back in LondonGraeme Wall
|   || |   +- Re: routemasters are back in LondonTheo
|   || |   +* Re: routemasters are back in LondonMuttley
|   || |   |+- Re: routemasters are back in LondonMuttley
|   || |   |`* Re: routemasters are back in LondonGraeme Wall
|   || |   | `* Re: routemasters are back in LondonMuttley
|   || |   |  `* Re: routemasters are back in LondonMarland
|   || |   |   `* Re: routemasters are back in LondonMuttley
|   || |   |    +- Re: routemasters are back in LondonMarland
|   || |   |    `- Re: routemasters are back in LondonGraeme Wall
|   || |   `- Re: routemasters are back in LondonRecliner
|   || `- Re: routemasters are back in LondonMarland
|   |+* Re: routemasters are back in LondonTitus_Atomicus@somewhere.in.the.world
|   ||`* Re: routemasters are back in LondonRecliner
|   || `* Re: routemasters are back in LondonTitus_Atomicus@somewhere.in.the.world
|   ||  +- Re: routemasters are back in LondonRoland Perry
|   ||  `- Re: routemasters are back in LondonMarland
|   |`- Re: routemasters are back in LondonBlueshirt
|   `- Re: routemasters are back in LondonBlueshirt
`- Re: routemasters are back in LondonTitus_Atomicus@somewhere.in.the.world

Pages:123
routemasters are back in London

<uskqpf$5ju$1$Atomicus@news.chmurka.net>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=15363&group=uk.transport.london#15363

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From: no_em...@invalid.invalid (Titus_Atomicus@somewhere.in.the.world)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london,uk.transport.buses
Subject: routemasters are back in London
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2024 17:31:28 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: news.chmurka.net
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 by: Titus_Atomicus@somew - Sun, 10 Mar 2024 17:31 UTC

https://youtu.be/wyAWEoCV3YY?si=o0TSof_6XXZ8MDHr

--
Titus Atomicus

Re: routemasters are back in London

<DhmHN.197890$ds1.108704@fx14.ams1>

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Subject: Re: routemasters are back in London
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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
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Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2024 17:41:55 GMT
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 by: Recliner - Sun, 10 Mar 2024 17:41 UTC

Titus_Atomicus@somewhere.in.the.world <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> https://youtu.be/wyAWEoCV3YY?si=o0TSof_6XXZ8MDHr
>

I wonder if Boris Buses will be brought back as a tourist novelty ride in
the 2070s?

Re: routemasters are back in London

<uskt88$813$1$Atomicus@news.chmurka.net>

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From: no_em...@invalid.invalid (Titus_Atomicus@somewhere.in.the.world)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london,uk.transport.buses
Subject: Re: routemasters are back in London
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2024 18:13:28 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: news.chmurka.net
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 by: Titus_Atomicus@somew - Sun, 10 Mar 2024 18:13 UTC

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Titus_Atomicus@somewhere.in.the.world <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> https://youtu.be/wyAWEoCV3YY?si=o0TSof_6XXZ8MDHr
>>
>
> I wonder if Boris Buses will be brought back as a tourist novelty ride in
> the 2070s?
>
>

I am over 60 now. I do not care :-)
However I really appreciate this londonbus project. Pity London Transport
withdrew the routemaster heritage routes.

--
Titus Atomicus

Re: routemasters are back in London

<tv2uuil228sc3kf0n5nn6isgf0gcl2la05@4ax.com>

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: routemasters are back in London
Message-ID: <tv2uuil228sc3kf0n5nn6isgf0gcl2la05@4ax.com>
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2024 13:51:09 +0000
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 by: Recliner - Mon, 11 Mar 2024 13:51 UTC

On Sun, 10 Mar 2024 18:13:28 -0000 (UTC), Titus_Atomicus@somewhere.in.the.world <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Titus_Atomicus@somewhere.in.the.world <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> https://youtu.be/wyAWEoCV3YY?si=o0TSof_6XXZ8MDHr
>>>
>>
>> I wonder if Boris Buses will be brought back as a tourist novelty ride in
>> the 2070s?
>>
>>
>
>I am over 60 now. I do not care :-)
>However I really appreciate this londonbus project. Pity London Transport
>withdrew the routemaster heritage routes.

TfL regards them as a tourist attraction, like the open top buses, not a means of transport.

Re: routemasters are back in London

<j790vih4flm17kid9l98ik7lrptj5k2nvm@4ax.com>

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From: ken...@birchanger.com (Ken)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: routemasters are back in London
Message-ID: <j790vih4flm17kid9l98ik7lrptj5k2nvm@4ax.com>
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2024 09:57:22 +0000
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 by: Ken - Tue, 12 Mar 2024 09:57 UTC

On Mon, 11 Mar 2024 13:51:09 +0000, Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 10 Mar 2024 18:13:28 -0000 (UTC), Titus_Atomicus@somewhere.in.the.world <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Titus_Atomicus@somewhere.in.the.world <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> https://youtu.be/wyAWEoCV3YY?si=o0TSof_6XXZ8MDHr
>>>>
>>>
>>> I wonder if Boris Buses will be brought back as a tourist novelty ride in
>>> the 2070s?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I am over 60 now. I do not care :-)
>>However I really appreciate this londonbus project. Pity London Transport
>>withdrew the routemaster heritage routes.
>
>TfL regards them as a tourist attraction, like the open top buses, not a means of transport.

That reminds me of when the Vale of Rheidol line was sold. A BR
spokesman said that they were not in the business of running tourist
attractions. I didn't see why they thought that the journey purpose
mattered. Their job was to carry people on trains. What does it matter
whether those people were going to work, school, shopping or on a day
out? And if on a day out why does it matter whether they're using the
train incidentally to their day out (e.g. a day trip to a city or
resort) or as in integral part?
I'm not the only one on here who frequently uses trains for no purpose
other than travelling on that particular train/class/route. Should I
stop?

Re: routemasters are back in London

<uspb3d$8004$2@dont-email.me>

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: routemasters are back in London
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2024 10:34:21 +0000
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 by: Graeme Wall - Tue, 12 Mar 2024 10:34 UTC

On 12/03/2024 09:57, Ken wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Mar 2024 13:51:09 +0000, Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 10 Mar 2024 18:13:28 -0000 (UTC), Titus_Atomicus@somewhere.in.the.world <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Titus_Atomicus@somewhere.in.the.world <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> https://youtu.be/wyAWEoCV3YY?si=o0TSof_6XXZ8MDHr
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if Boris Buses will be brought back as a tourist novelty ride in
>>>> the 2070s?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I am over 60 now. I do not care :-)
>>> However I really appreciate this londonbus project. Pity London Transport
>>> withdrew the routemaster heritage routes.
>>
>> TfL regards them as a tourist attraction, like the open top buses, not a means of transport.
>
> That reminds me of when the Vale of Rheidol line was sold. A BR
> spokesman said that they were not in the business of running tourist
> attractions. I didn't see why they thought that the journey purpose
> mattered. Their job was to carry people on trains. What does it matter
> whether those people were going to work, school, shopping or on a day
> out? And if on a day out why does it matter whether they're using the
> train incidentally to their day out (e.g. a day trip to a city or
> resort) or as in integral part?
> I'm not the only one on here who frequently uses trains for no purpose
> other than travelling on that particular train/class/route. Should I
> stop?

At that time BR didn't want to be in the business of running any trains,
they got in the way of tidying the paperwork.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: routemasters are back in London

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<DhmHN.197890$ds1.108704@fx14.ams1>
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2024 11:12:19 GMT
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 by: Recliner - Tue, 12 Mar 2024 11:12 UTC

Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Mar 2024 13:51:09 +0000, Recliner
> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 10 Mar 2024 18:13:28 -0000 (UTC),
>> Titus_Atomicus@somewhere.in.the.world <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Titus_Atomicus@somewhere.in.the.world <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> https://youtu.be/wyAWEoCV3YY?si=o0TSof_6XXZ8MDHr
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if Boris Buses will be brought back as a tourist novelty ride in
>>>> the 2070s?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I am over 60 now. I do not care :-)
>>> However I really appreciate this londonbus project. Pity London Transport
>>> withdrew the routemaster heritage routes.
>>
>> TfL regards them as a tourist attraction, like the open top buses, not a
>> means of transport.
>
> That reminds me of when the Vale of Rheidol line was sold. A BR
> spokesman said that they were not in the business of running tourist
> attractions. I didn't see why they thought that the journey purpose
> mattered. Their job was to carry people on trains. What does it matter
> whether those people were going to work, school, shopping or on a day
> out? And if on a day out why does it matter whether they're using the
> train incidentally to their day out (e.g. a day trip to a city or
> resort) or as in integral part?
> I'm not the only one on here who frequently uses trains for no purpose
> other than travelling on that particular train/class/route. Should I
> stop?
>

If they were TfL buses, they'd be subject to the accessibility and
emissions rules. Similarly, charter trains don't have to provide wheelchair
spaces and disabled toilets. They can also continue to have manual doors,
providing they have central locking.

Re: routemasters are back in London

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From: ken...@birchanger.com (Ken)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: routemasters are back in London
Message-ID: <mis2vi5o9ld6otp8hurehn1e2q7araf7r4@4ax.com>
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:32:23 +0000
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 by: Ken - Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:32 UTC

On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 11:12:19 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2024 13:51:09 +0000, Recliner
>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 10 Mar 2024 18:13:28 -0000 (UTC),
>>> Titus_Atomicus@somewhere.in.the.world <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Titus_Atomicus@somewhere.in.the.world <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> https://youtu.be/wyAWEoCV3YY?si=o0TSof_6XXZ8MDHr
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if Boris Buses will be brought back as a tourist novelty ride in
>>>>> the 2070s?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am over 60 now. I do not care :-)
>>>> However I really appreciate this londonbus project. Pity London Transport
>>>> withdrew the routemaster heritage routes.
>>>
>>> TfL regards them as a tourist attraction, like the open top buses, not a
>>> means of transport.
>>
>> That reminds me of when the Vale of Rheidol line was sold. A BR
>> spokesman said that they were not in the business of running tourist
>> attractions. I didn't see why they thought that the journey purpose
>> mattered. Their job was to carry people on trains. What does it matter
>> whether those people were going to work, school, shopping or on a day
>> out? And if on a day out why does it matter whether they're using the
>> train incidentally to their day out (e.g. a day trip to a city or
>> resort) or as in integral part?
>> I'm not the only one on here who frequently uses trains for no purpose
>> other than travelling on that particular train/class/route. Should I
>> stop?
>>
>
>If they were TfL buses, they'd be subject to the accessibility and
>emissions rules. Similarly, charter trains don't have to provide wheelchair
>spaces and disabled toilets. They can also continue to have manual doors,
>providing they have central locking.

Weren't the TfL heritage Routemasters subject to those rules?

Re: routemasters are back in London

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: routemasters are back in London
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:39:26 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:39 UTC

On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:32:23 +0000
Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 11:12:19 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>>If they were TfL buses, they'd be subject to the accessibility and
>>emissions rules. Similarly, charter trains don't have to provide wheelchair
>>spaces and disabled toilets. They can also continue to have manual doors,
>>providing they have central locking.
>
>Weren't the TfL heritage Routemasters subject to those rules?

I'd love to know who it was - presumably to justify their non-job - appropo
of nothing decided one day that an open entrance at the back of the bus was
so dangerous that it had to be banned. I wonder exactly how many people over
the course of the 100 or so years they've existed actually were badly injured
or died trying to get on or off. I suspect next to none.

Ditto manual opening doors on trains. There's plenty of old films of adults
behaving like adults opening the doors slightly early at waterloo/wherever
as the train arrives and all piling off with everyone unharmed.

Re: routemasters are back in London

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Subject: Re: routemasters are back in London
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 11:17:35 GMT
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 by: Recliner - Wed, 13 Mar 2024 11:17 UTC

Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 11:12:19 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2024 13:51:09 +0000, Recliner
>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 10 Mar 2024 18:13:28 -0000 (UTC),
>>>> Titus_Atomicus@somewhere.in.the.world <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Titus_Atomicus@somewhere.in.the.world <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/wyAWEoCV3YY?si=o0TSof_6XXZ8MDHr
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder if Boris Buses will be brought back as a tourist novelty ride in
>>>>>> the 2070s?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I am over 60 now. I do not care :-)
>>>>> However I really appreciate this londonbus project. Pity London Transport
>>>>> withdrew the routemaster heritage routes.
>>>>
>>>> TfL regards them as a tourist attraction, like the open top buses, not a
>>>> means of transport.
>>>
>>> That reminds me of when the Vale of Rheidol line was sold. A BR
>>> spokesman said that they were not in the business of running tourist
>>> attractions. I didn't see why they thought that the journey purpose
>>> mattered. Their job was to carry people on trains. What does it matter
>>> whether those people were going to work, school, shopping or on a day
>>> out? And if on a day out why does it matter whether they're using the
>>> train incidentally to their day out (e.g. a day trip to a city or
>>> resort) or as in integral part?
>>> I'm not the only one on here who frequently uses trains for no purpose
>>> other than travelling on that particular train/class/route. Should I
>>> stop?
>>>
>>
>> If they were TfL buses, they'd be subject to the accessibility and
>> emissions rules. Similarly, charter trains don't have to provide wheelchair
>> spaces and disabled toilets. They can also continue to have manual doors,
>> providing they have central locking.
>
> Weren't the TfL heritage Routemasters subject to those rules?

I think they were exempted as normal, modern buses also operated on those
routes. But I don't think TfL would want to operate any non-ULEZ-compliant
buses now.

Re: routemasters are back in London

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From: recliner...@gmail.com (Recliner)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: routemasters are back in London
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 by: Recliner - Wed, 13 Mar 2024 14:03 UTC

On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:39:26 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:32:23 +0000
>Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 11:12:19 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>>If they were TfL buses, they'd be subject to the accessibility and
>>>emissions rules. Similarly, charter trains don't have to provide wheelchair
>>>spaces and disabled toilets. They can also continue to have manual doors,
>>>providing they have central locking.
>>
>>Weren't the TfL heritage Routemasters subject to those rules?
>
>I'd love to know who it was - presumably to justify their non-job - appropo
>of nothing decided one day that an open entrance at the back of the bus was
>so dangerous that it had to be banned. I wonder exactly how many people over
>the course of the 100 or so years they've existed actually were badly injured
>or died trying to get on or off. I suspect next to none.

https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/find-an-answer/death-and-injury-figures-routemasters

https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/accident-figures-aid-routemaster-return-6899423.html

>
>Ditto manual opening doors on trains. There's plenty of old films of adults
>behaving like adults opening the doors slightly early at waterloo/wherever
>as the train arrives and all piling off with everyone unharmed.

https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/slam-door-train-killed-my-daughter-6329734.html

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Subject: Re: routemasters are back in London
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 by: Blueshirt - Wed, 13 Mar 2024 14:54 UTC

Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:32:23 +0000
> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
> >
> > Weren't the TfL heritage Routemasters subject to those rules?
>
> I'd love to know who it was - presumably to justify their
> non-job - appropo of nothing decided one day that an open
> entrance at the back of the bus was so dangerous that it had
> to be banned. I wonder exactly how many people over the course
> of the 100 or so years they've existed actually were badly
> injured or died trying to get on or off. I suspect next to
> none.

I'm sure there were incidents from time to time, but people do
have to be responsible for their own actions. If used properly,
as in, get on and off the bus whilst it is stopped at a bus
stop, an open entrance at the back of a bus is no more dangerous
than getting out of bed in the morning. Everything we do in life
carries some degree of risk.

Now, everyone has to be wrapped in cotton wool and society seems
to be full of idiots who like to blame everyone else if some
mishap occurs because of their own actions.

Re: routemasters are back in London

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Subject: Re: routemasters are back in London
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Wed, 13 Mar 2024 15:37 UTC

On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 14:03:44 +0000
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:39:26 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:32:23 +0000
>>Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 11:12:19 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>>If they were TfL buses, they'd be subject to the accessibility and
>>>>emissions rules. Similarly, charter trains don't have to provide wheelchair
>>>>spaces and disabled toilets. They can also continue to have manual doors,
>>>>providing they have central locking.
>>>
>>>Weren't the TfL heritage Routemasters subject to those rules?
>>
>>I'd love to know who it was - presumably to justify their non-job - appropo
>>of nothing decided one day that an open entrance at the back of the bus was
>>so dangerous that it had to be banned. I wonder exactly how many people over
>>the course of the 100 or so years they've existed actually were badly injured
>
>>or died trying to get on or off. I suspect next to none.
>
>https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/questions-mayor/
>find-an-answer/death-and-injury-figures-routemasters
>
>https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/accident-figures-aid-routemaster-return-689
>9423.html

Next to none in other words.

>>Ditto manual opening doors on trains. There's plenty of old films of adults
>>behaving like adults opening the doors slightly early at waterloo/wherever
>>as the train arrives and all piling off with everyone unharmed.
>
>https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/slam-door-train-killed-my-daughter-6329734.
>html

Darwin award winner.

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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Wed, 13 Mar 2024 15:39 UTC

On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 15:54:37 +0100
"Blueshirt" <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:32:23 +0000
>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Weren't the TfL heritage Routemasters subject to those rules?
>>
>> I'd love to know who it was - presumably to justify their
>> non-job - appropo of nothing decided one day that an open
>> entrance at the back of the bus was so dangerous that it had
>> to be banned. I wonder exactly how many people over the course
>> of the 100 or so years they've existed actually were badly
>> injured or died trying to get on or off. I suspect next to
>> none.
>
>I'm sure there were incidents from time to time, but people do
>have to be responsible for their own actions. If used properly,
>as in, get on and off the bus whilst it is stopped at a bus
>stop, an open entrance at the back of a bus is no more dangerous
>than getting out of bed in the morning. Everything we do in life
>carries some degree of risk.
>
>Now, everyone has to be wrapped in cotton wool and society seems
>to be full of idiots who like to blame everyone else if some
>mishap occurs because of their own actions.

And solicitors just waiting for any chance to screw money out of whoever.

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From: jul...@n6are.com (Julian Macassey)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: routemasters are back in London
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 21:47:12 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Julian Macassey - Wed, 13 Mar 2024 21:47 UTC

On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 15:37:59 -0000 (UTC),
Muttley@dastardlyhq.com <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>
>>https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/slam-door-train-killed-my-daughter-6329734.
>>html
>
> Darwin award winner.

How drunk was she?

--
The NHS will last as long as there are folk left with faith to
fight for it. - Aneurin Bevan

Re: routemasters are back in London

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: routemasters are back in London
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 22:47:59 +0000
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 by: Graeme Wall - Wed, 13 Mar 2024 22:47 UTC

On 13/03/2024 14:54, Blueshirt wrote:
> Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:32:23 +0000
>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Weren't the TfL heritage Routemasters subject to those rules?
>>
>> I'd love to know who it was - presumably to justify their
>> non-job - appropo of nothing decided one day that an open
>> entrance at the back of the bus was so dangerous that it had
>> to be banned. I wonder exactly how many people over the course
>> of the 100 or so years they've existed actually were badly
>> injured or died trying to get on or off. I suspect next to
>> none.
>
> I'm sure there were incidents from time to time, but people do
> have to be responsible for their own actions. If used properly,
> as in, get on and off the bus whilst it is stopped at a bus
> stop, an open entrance at the back of a bus is no more dangerous
> than getting out of bed in the morning. Everything we do in life
> carries some degree of risk.
>
> Now, everyone has to be wrapped in cotton wool and society seems
> to be full of idiots who like to blame everyone else if some
> mishap occurs because of their own actions.

More to do with society being full of people willing to sue companies at
the slightest provocation.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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From: ken...@birchanger.com (Ken)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: routemasters are back in London
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 by: Ken - Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:20 UTC

On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:39:26 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:32:23 +0000
>Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 11:12:19 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>>If they were TfL buses, they'd be subject to the accessibility and
>>>emissions rules. Similarly, charter trains don't have to provide wheelchair
>>>spaces and disabled toilets. They can also continue to have manual doors,
>>>providing they have central locking.
>>
>>Weren't the TfL heritage Routemasters subject to those rules?
>
>I'd love to know who it was - presumably to justify their non-job - appropo
>of nothing decided one day that an open entrance at the back of the bus was
>so dangerous that it had to be banned. I wonder exactly how many people over
>the course of the 100 or so years they've existed actually were badly injured
>or died trying to get on or off. I suspect next to none.
>
I do remember an inquest where the coroner wrote to the authorities
about the matter after a French tourist fell off and was killed. But
are they banned? Boris buses had the doors open when a conductor was
on board - that was Boris' selling point, that you can hop on and off.

>Ditto manual opening doors on trains. There's plenty of old films of adults
>behaving like adults opening the doors slightly early at waterloo/wherever
>as the train arrives and all piling off with everyone unharmed.

I managed to open a door on a Southern unit at about 80mph by idly
doing something or other with the handle. It was one of those internal
handles that are normally pretty hard to open. I'm not sure exactly
what happened but suddenly the wind took the door and it slammed into
the side of the train at full tilt, nearly taking me with it. A friend
with me at the time claims she still has nightmares about it.

Slam doors were unnecessarily dangerous in a modern age when better
alternatives exist. Not only did people fall out but people on
platforms were often fetched a severe clout to the point that BR used
to run campaigns telling passengers not to open doors until the train
had stopped.

The class 306 units had sliding doors before 1950 yet BR abandoned the
idea with its Eastleigh designs throughout the 50s and 60s. They
didn't adopt power doors until, when? The PEPs? So the 1970s.

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: routemasters are back in London
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2024 09:20:51 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Thu, 14 Mar 2024 09:20 UTC

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:20:27 +0000
Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:39:26 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:32:23 +0000
>>Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 11:12:19 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>>If they were TfL buses, they'd be subject to the accessibility and
>>>>emissions rules. Similarly, charter trains don't have to provide wheelchair
>>>>spaces and disabled toilets. They can also continue to have manual doors,
>>>>providing they have central locking.
>>>
>>>Weren't the TfL heritage Routemasters subject to those rules?
>>
>>I'd love to know who it was - presumably to justify their non-job - appropo
>>of nothing decided one day that an open entrance at the back of the bus was
>>so dangerous that it had to be banned. I wonder exactly how many people over
>>the course of the 100 or so years they've existed actually were badly injured
>
>>or died trying to get on or off. I suspect next to none.
>>
>I do remember an inquest where the coroner wrote to the authorities
>about the matter after a French tourist fell off and was killed. But
>are they banned? Boris buses had the doors open when a conductor was
>on board - that was Boris' selling point, that you can hop on and off.
>
>>Ditto manual opening doors on trains. There's plenty of old films of adults
>>behaving like adults opening the doors slightly early at waterloo/wherever
>>as the train arrives and all piling off with everyone unharmed.
>
>I managed to open a door on a Southern unit at about 80mph by idly
>doing something or other with the handle. It was one of those internal

Sounds like the handle mechanism was broken. But perhaps playing with a door
lock while leaning on the door and the train doing 80mph wasn't such a clever
idea either.

>Slam doors were unnecessarily dangerous in a modern age when better
>alternatives exist. Not only did people fall out but people on

If we had the indian system of no doors altogether on some trains I suspect
the survival instinct would kick in and almost no people would be hurt or
killed.

>The class 306 units had sliding doors before 1950 yet BR abandoned the
>idea with its Eastleigh designs throughout the 50s and 60s. They
>didn't adopt power doors until, when? The PEPs? So the 1970s.

Power doors have been known to open on the move too.

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: routemasters are back in London
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2024 09:37:30 +0000
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 by: Graeme Wall - Thu, 14 Mar 2024 09:37 UTC

On 14/03/2024 08:20, Ken wrote:
> Slam doors were unnecessarily dangerous in a modern age when better
> alternatives exist. Not only did people fall out but people on
> platforms were often fetched a severe clout to the point that BR used
> to run campaigns telling passengers not to open doors until the train
> had stopped.

There was a famous Southern Region poster showing a train arriving at
Waterloo with commuters opening the doors half way down the platform and
a young woman foreground stretched out on the ground having been struck
by a door.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: routemasters are back in London
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Thu, 14 Mar 2024 09:57 UTC

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 09:37:30 +0000
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 14/03/2024 08:20, Ken wrote:
>> Slam doors were unnecessarily dangerous in a modern age when better
>> alternatives exist. Not only did people fall out but people on
>> platforms were often fetched a severe clout to the point that BR used
>> to run campaigns telling passengers not to open doors until the train
>> had stopped.
>
>There was a famous Southern Region poster showing a train arriving at
>Waterloo with commuters opening the doors half way down the platform and
>a young woman foreground stretched out on the ground having been struck
>by a door.

Why was she standing on a platform within a doors length of the track facing
the wrong way and was presumably deaf too? Doesn't make much sense.

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From: gemeha...@btinternet.co.uk (Marland)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: routemasters are back in London
Date: 14 Mar 2024 11:51:15 GMT
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 by: Marland - Thu, 14 Mar 2024 11:51 UTC

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 14/03/2024 08:20, Ken wrote:
>> Slam doors were unnecessarily dangerous in a modern age when better
>> alternatives exist. Not only did people fall out but people on
>> platforms were often fetched a severe clout to the point that BR used
>> to run campaigns telling passengers not to open doors until the train
>> had stopped.
>
> There was a famous Southern Region poster showing a train arriving at
> Waterloo with commuters opening the doors half way down the platform and
> a young woman foreground stretched out on the ground having been struck
> by a door.
>

Its a bit ironic though that there were no platform markings to indicate
the area an opened door would intrude into , now there are no longer such
doors in everyday use we have yellow lines set back from the platform edge
with passengers informed by notices and sometimes enforced by staff that
they must stand behind the yellow line. Made sense when fast services like
the HST first started barreling through many places but you still get such
lines applied to Stations like Barnstaple , Gunnislake and loads of others
where a high speed pass would be unwise.

GH

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: routemasters are back in London
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2024 14:48:27 +0000
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 by: Graeme Wall - Thu, 14 Mar 2024 14:48 UTC

On 14/03/2024 09:57, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 09:37:30 +0000
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 14/03/2024 08:20, Ken wrote:
>>> Slam doors were unnecessarily dangerous in a modern age when better
>>> alternatives exist. Not only did people fall out but people on
>>> platforms were often fetched a severe clout to the point that BR used
>>> to run campaigns telling passengers not to open doors until the train
>>> had stopped.
>>
>> There was a famous Southern Region poster showing a train arriving at
>> Waterloo with commuters opening the doors half way down the platform and
>> a young woman foreground stretched out on the ground having been struck
>> by a door.
>
> Why was she standing on a platform within a doors length of the track facing
> the wrong way and was presumably deaf too? Doesn't make much sense.
>
>

Ever seen a crowded platform at Waterloo in the 1950s?

Anyway it was a poster!
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: routemasters are back in London
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 by: Graeme Wall - Thu, 14 Mar 2024 14:51 UTC

On 14/03/2024 11:51, Marland wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 14/03/2024 08:20, Ken wrote:
>>> Slam doors were unnecessarily dangerous in a modern age when better
>>> alternatives exist. Not only did people fall out but people on
>>> platforms were often fetched a severe clout to the point that BR used
>>> to run campaigns telling passengers not to open doors until the train
>>> had stopped.
>>
>> There was a famous Southern Region poster showing a train arriving at
>> Waterloo with commuters opening the doors half way down the platform and
>> a young woman foreground stretched out on the ground having been struck
>> by a door.
>>
>
> Its a bit ironic though that there were no platform markings to indicate
> the area an opened door would intrude into , now there are no longer such
> doors in everyday use we have yellow lines set back from the platform edge
> with passengers informed by notices and sometimes enforced by staff that
> they must stand behind the yellow line. Made sense when fast services like
> the HST first started barreling through many places but you still get such
> lines applied to Stations like Barnstaple , Gunnislake and loads of others
> where a high speed pass would be unwise.
>

Not just high speed trains, a container train passing at a more moderate
speed can cause problems with the different air disturbances created by
the gaps between the containers.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Re: routemasters are back in London

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From: gemeha...@btinternet.co.uk (Marland)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: routemasters are back in London
Date: 14 Mar 2024 20:35:23 GMT
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 by: Marland - Thu, 14 Mar 2024 20:35 UTC

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 14/03/2024 11:51, Marland wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 14/03/2024 08:20, Ken wrote:
>>>> Slam doors were unnecessarily dangerous in a modern age when better
>>>> alternatives exist. Not only did people fall out but people on
>>>> platforms were often fetched a severe clout to the point that BR used
>>>> to run campaigns telling passengers not to open doors until the train
>>>> had stopped.
>>>
>>> There was a famous Southern Region poster showing a train arriving at
>>> Waterloo with commuters opening the doors half way down the platform and
>>> a young woman foreground stretched out on the ground having been struck
>>> by a door.
>>>
>>
>> Its a bit ironic though that there were no platform markings to indicate
>> the area an opened door would intrude into , now there are no longer such
>> doors in everyday use we have yellow lines set back from the platform edge
>> with passengers informed by notices and sometimes enforced by staff that
>> they must stand behind the yellow line. Made sense when fast services like
>> the HST first started barreling through many places but you still get such
>> lines applied to Stations like Barnstaple , Gunnislake and loads of others
>> where a high speed pass would be unwise.
>>
>
> Not just high speed trains, a container train passing at a more moderate
> speed can cause problems with the different air disturbances created by
> the gaps between the containers.
>

I avoided mentioning those for brevity, compared to the network as a whole
they don’t run on too many routes . Like the stations I mentioned above if
a container train is passing along much of the network something will be
very out of sorts.

GH

Re: routemasters are back in London

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From: ken...@birchanger.com (Ken)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: routemasters are back in London
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 by: Ken - Fri, 15 Mar 2024 09:23 UTC

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 09:20:51 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:20:27 +0000
>Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:39:26 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 09:32:23 +0000
>>>Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 11:12:19 GMT, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>>If they were TfL buses, they'd be subject to the accessibility and
>>>>>emissions rules. Similarly, charter trains don't have to provide wheelchair
>>>>>spaces and disabled toilets. They can also continue to have manual doors,
>>>>>providing they have central locking.
>>>>
>>>>Weren't the TfL heritage Routemasters subject to those rules?
>>>
>>>I'd love to know who it was - presumably to justify their non-job - appropo
>>>of nothing decided one day that an open entrance at the back of the bus was
>>>so dangerous that it had to be banned. I wonder exactly how many people over
>>>the course of the 100 or so years they've existed actually were badly injured
>>
>>>or died trying to get on or off. I suspect next to none.
>>>
>>I do remember an inquest where the coroner wrote to the authorities
>>about the matter after a French tourist fell off and was killed. But
>>are they banned? Boris buses had the doors open when a conductor was
>>on board - that was Boris' selling point, that you can hop on and off.
>>
>>>Ditto manual opening doors on trains. There's plenty of old films of adults
>>>behaving like adults opening the doors slightly early at waterloo/wherever
>>>as the train arrives and all piling off with everyone unharmed.
>>
>>I managed to open a door on a Southern unit at about 80mph by idly
>>doing something or other with the handle. It was one of those internal
>
>Sounds like the handle mechanism was broken. But perhaps playing with a door
>lock while leaning on the door and the train doing 80mph wasn't such a clever
>idea either.

Agreed.

>
>>Slam doors were unnecessarily dangerous in a modern age when better
>>alternatives exist. Not only did people fall out but people on
>
>If we had the indian system of no doors altogether on some trains I suspect
>the survival instinct would kick in and almost no people would be hurt or
>killed.
>
I remember my first day in Bombay (as it was) looking at the Times of
India that had just been posted under my door. It said that over 500
people had been killed on the Eastern Railway alone (I assume in a
year). The split between pedestrians and riders wasn't made clear. But
by your logic presumably wandering over the track is fine, too, due to
that same survival instinct?


>>The class 306 units had sliding doors before 1950 yet BR abandoned the
>>idea with its Eastleigh designs throughout the 50s and 60s. They
>>didn't adopt power doors until, when? The PEPs? So the 1970s.
>
>Power doors have been known to open on the move too.


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