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aus+uk / uk.transport.london / C5 tube program

SubjectAuthor
* C5 tube programMuttley
+* Re: C5 tube programMarland
|+- Re: C5 tube programMuttley
|`* Re: C5 tube programJMB99
| +- Re: C5 tube programMuttley
| `* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|  `* Re: C5 tube programMuttley
|   +* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|   |`* Re: C5 tube programMarland
|   | +- Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|   | `* Re: C5 tube programJMB99
|   |  +* Re: C5 tube programMarland
|   |  |`* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|   |  | `- Re: C5 tube programMarland
|   |  `* Re: C5 tube programCertes
|   |   `* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|   |    `* Re: C5 tube programCertes
|   |     +* Re: C5 tube programMike Humphrey
|   |     |`- Re: C5 tube programCharles Ellson
|   |     `- Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|   +* Re: C5 tube programGraeme Wall
|   |`* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|   | +* Re: C5 tube programCertes
|   | |`- Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|   | `* Re: C5 tube programGraeme Wall
|   |  `* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|   |   `* Re: C5 tube programGraeme Wall
|   |    +- Re: C5 tube programMarland
|   |    `- Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|   `* Re: C5 tube programCharles Ellson
|    `* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|     `* Re: C5 tube programMarland
|      +* Re: C5 tube programRolf Mantel
|      |+* Re: C5 tube programGraeme Wall
|      ||`* Re: C5 tube programCharles Ellson
|      || `* Re: C5 tube programGraeme Wall
|      ||  `* Re: C5 tube programMarland
|      ||   `* Re: C5 tube programGraeme Wall
|      ||    `* Re: C5 tube programMarland
|      ||     `* Re: C5 tube programMuttley
|      ||      `* Re: C5 tube programMarland
|      ||       `* Re: C5 tube programMuttley
|      ||        `* Re: C5 tube programMarland
|      ||         `* Re: C5 tube programMuttley
|      ||          `- Re: C5 tube programSam Wilson
|      |+- Re: C5 tube programMarland
|      |`* Re: C5 tube programMuttley
|      | +* Re: C5 tube programCharles Ellson
|      | |`- Re: C5 tube programMuttley
|      | `* Re: C5 tube programSam Wilson
|      |  `* Re: C5 tube programMuttley
|      |   `* Re: C5 tube programSam Wilson
|      |    `* Re: C5 tube programTweed
|      |     `- Re: C5 tube programSam Wilson
|      +* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|      |`* Re: C5 tube programMuttley
|      | `- Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|      `* Re: C5 tube programMuttley
|       `* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|        `* Re: C5 tube programMuttley
|         `* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|          `* Re: C5 tube programMuttley
|           `* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|            +* Re: C5 tube programMarland
|            |+* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|            ||+* Re: C5 tube programMuttley
|            |||`* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|            ||| `* Re: C5 tube programMuttley
|            |||  `* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|            |||   `* Re: C5 tube programMuttley
|            |||    `* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|            |||     `* Re: C5 tube programMuttley
|            |||      `* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|            |||       `* Re: C5 tube programMuttley
|            |||        `* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|            |||         `* Re: C5 tube programMuttley
|            |||          `* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|            |||           +* Re: C5 tube programMuttley
|            |||           |`* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|            |||           | `* Re: C5 tube programMuttley
|            |||           |  +* Re: C5 tube programGraeme Wall
|            |||           |  |`* Re: C5 tube programSam Wilson
|            |||           |  | +- Re: C5 tube programGraeme Wall
|            |||           |  | `* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|            |||           |  |  `* Re: C5 tube programSam Wilson
|            |||           |  |   +* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|            |||           |  |   |+* Re: C5 tube programGraeme Wall
|            |||           |  |   ||+- Re: C5 tube programRecliner
|            |||           |  |   ||`* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|            |||           |  |   || `- Re: C5 tube programRecliner
|            |||           |  |   |`* Re: C5 tube programJMB99
|            |||           |  |   | +* Re: C5 tube programRecliner
|            |||           |  |   | |`* Re: C5 tube programCharles Ellson
|            |||           |  |   | | `* Re: C5 tube programGraeme Wall
|            |||           |  |   | |  `- Re: C5 tube programSam Wilson
|            |||           |  |   | `* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|            |||           |  |   |  +* Re: C5 tube programTweed
|            |||           |  |   |  |+* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|            |||           |  |   |  ||+* Re: C5 tube programTweed
|            |||           |  |   |  |||+* Re: C5 tube programJMB99
|            |||           |  |   |  ||||+* Re: C5 tube programBob
|            |||           |  |   |  ||||`* Re: C5 tube programCharles Ellson
|            |||           |  |   |  |||`- Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|            |||           |  |   |  ||+* Re: C5 tube programRecliner
|            |||           |  |   |  ||`- Re: C5 tube programJMB99
|            |||           |  |   |  |+* Re: C5 tube programJMB99
|            |||           |  |   |  |`* Re: C5 tube programCharles Ellson
|            |||           |  |   |  +- Re: C5 tube programRecliner
|            |||           |  |   |  `* Re: C5 tube programJMB99
|            |||           |  |   `* Re: C5 tube programJMB99
|            |||           |  `* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|            |||           `* Re: C5 tube programGraeme Wall
|            ||+* Re: C5 tube programMarland
|            ||`* Re: C5 tube programSam Wilson
|            |`* Re: C5 tube programRoland Perry
|            `- Re: C5 tube programMuttley
`* Re: C5 tube programCharles Ellson

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C5 tube program

<ut90mj$3i1q$1@dont-email.me>

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Subject: C5 tube program
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 09:14:59 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Mon, 18 Mar 2024 09:14 UTC

I'm not often left speechless but last nights C5 program about the tube
managed it. LU left 200 people in 40C heat for at least 2 hours in a train
stopped in a tunnel in order to try and rescue a dog that had run down the
tunnel. Words genuinely failed me but I think it pretty much sums up everything
thats wrong with the state apparatus in this country and the fucked up
priorities of the morons that work in it.

I'm waiting for the day someone sues the arse off LU/TfL when there's a serious
issue with a passenger caused by something like this.

As for the total cockwomble laughably called the "driver", 60K a year for
that waste of space? God help us.

Re: C5 tube program

<l5qhtdFj8q2U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: gemeha...@btinternet.co.uk (Marland)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
Date: 18 Mar 2024 10:04:29 GMT
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 by: Marland - Mon, 18 Mar 2024 10:04 UTC

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> I'm not often left speechless but last nights C5 program about the tube
> managed it. LU left 200 people in 40C heat for at least 2 hours in a train
> stopped in a tunnel in order to try and rescue a dog that had run down the
> tunnel. Words genuinely failed me but I think it pretty much sums up everything
> thats wrong with the state apparatus in this country and the fucked up
> priorities of the morons that work in it.
>
> I'm waiting for the day someone sues the arse off LU/TfL when there's a serious
> issue with a passenger caused by something like this.
>
>
>

Knowing how the public regard animals as above humans in the UK I don’t
think there is an easy answer,
if the dog was to be electrocuted or run over there would be a public
outcry.
Even in France where we think they aren’t so sensitive saw SNCF was subject
to such an outcry
over a Cat
<https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/07/05/sncf-sued-by-animal-rights-group-after-pet-cat-was-crushed-by-train-at-montparnasse-statio>

And even a dead dog has to removed, I suppose ideally the animal could
have been tranquillised by a dart to speed things up but firing projectiles
in the confines of a tube tunnel may have its own logistical problems and
that is before you find someone licensed to do the job who is also
capable of being allowed on a railway track. Met Police probably the most
likely candidate ,but hasn’t the Firearms unit been much reduced by
resignation’s from it recently as they are afraid that shooting some
machete wielding toerag ends up with a campaign by community leaders and
his doting mother to them charged with murder.

As a final a mate for a short time worked for the RSPCA at ISTR Putney or
it may have been Balham,
one day he had to retrieve a dog on the Northern Line at Clapham. This was
nearly 50 years ago
The power was turned off as he entered at Clapham South accompanied by
staff after it had been confirmed the next train was stopped just short of
Clapham Central, they drove the dog to Central where other personnel from
RSPCA and Railway forced it up onto the platform where it was caught with
one of those hoop things. Took about 15-20mins. Perhaps there were more
people around then
or lack of training to be on a track wasn’t a thing providing someone was
qualified.

GH

Re: C5 tube program

<ut94cs$499s$1@dont-email.me>

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 10:18:04 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Mon, 18 Mar 2024 10:18 UTC

On 18 Mar 2024 10:04:29 GMT
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> I'm not often left speechless but last nights C5 program about the tube
>> managed it. LU left 200 people in 40C heat for at least 2 hours in a train
>> stopped in a tunnel in order to try and rescue a dog that had run down the
>> tunnel. Words genuinely failed me but I think it pretty much sums up
>everything
>> thats wrong with the state apparatus in this country and the fucked up
>> priorities of the morons that work in it.
>>
>> I'm waiting for the day someone sues the arse off LU/TfL when there's a
>serious
>> issue with a passenger caused by something like this.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Knowing how the public regard animals as above humans in the UK I don’t

Some wierd people do. Usually the type of dog lovers for whom their smelly
pet is a child substitute. I'd like to believe the vast majority of people
in this country would put other people first.

>think there is an easy answer,
>if the dog was to be electrocuted or run over there would be a public
>outcry.

It would pale into insignificance compared to the outcry if someone died or a
pregnant woman had a miscarraige sitting in the train. Seemed to me the
muppets allegedly in charge were playing a very dangerous game.

>Even in France where we think they aren’t so sensitive saw SNCF was subject
>to such an outcry
>over a Cat
><https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/07/05/sncf-sued-by-animal-rights-group-aft
>er-pet-cat-was-crushed-by-train-at-montparnasse-statio>

Animal rights activities are a tiny minority of people usually with
psychological issues.

>And even a dead dog has to removed, I suppose ideally the animal could

Get the train into a station then worry about the mutts corpse.

>resignation’s from it recently as they are afraid that shooting some
>machete wielding toerag ends up with a campaign by community leaders and
>his doting mother to them charged with murder.

The sort of toerag who apparently was always a "good student" or "loved his
mum" or had "aspirations".

>one of those hoop things. Took about 15-20mins. Perhaps there were more
>people around then
>or lack of training to be on a track wasn’t a thing providing someone was
>qualified.

If the power was switched off and no trains were moving then I imagine common
sense would suffice.

Re: C5 tube program

<ut989r$50u5$1@dont-email.me>

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From: mb...@nospam.net (JMB99)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 11:24:44 +0000
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 by: JMB99 - Mon, 18 Mar 2024 11:24 UTC

On 18/03/2024 10:04, Marland wrote:
> And even a dead dog has to removed,

Someone told me that any dead animal (pet or wild) is treated like
industrial waste - they cannot throw it in a ditch.

Of course some years ago, a North Wales traffic car just deliberately
ran over one dog when it was running loose on a road.

Re: C5 tube program

<ut98qs$57ig$1@dont-email.me>

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 11:33:48 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Mon, 18 Mar 2024 11:33 UTC

On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 11:24:44 +0000
JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
>On 18/03/2024 10:04, Marland wrote:
>> And even a dead dog has to removed,
>
>
>Someone told me that any dead animal (pet or wild) is treated like
>industrial waste - they cannot throw it in a ditch.
>
>Of course some years ago, a North Wales traffic car just deliberately
>ran over one dog when it was running loose on a road.

If it was out of control and considered dangerous that seems like a sensible
move.

Re: C5 tube program

<UW3dg9SWgE+lFAsi@perry.uk>

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From: rol...@perry.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 13:56:38 +0000
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 18 Mar 2024 13:56 UTC

In message <ut989r$50u5$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:24:44 on Mon, 18 Mar
2024, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> remarked:

>> And even a dead dog has to removed,
>
>Someone told me that any dead animal (pet or wild) is treated like
>industrial waste - they cannot throw it in a ditch.

Non-sequitur. Yes it has to be disposed of properly, but not necessary
immediately. A few years ago a rather large pike died in the river near
me (don't know whether old age, or some consequence of negligent
fishermen).

Anyway, it floated to the bank and eventually, about a day later,
someone unknown fished(sic) it out and put it on the grass verge. It
then took around three days for a suitably qualified person to come and
collect it. (I know all this, because I'd called the people responsible
the first day).

Basically the same timescale as someone arriving to dispose of a
shopping trolley or pushbike retrieved from the river by magnet
fishermen, then fly-tipped on the adjacent grass verge.

(Although said magnet fishermen are by and large stubbornly in denial
that their activities do indeed constitute fly tipping). They can't
throw it back in the river because that's against the byelaws, and they
lack the incentive to take it to tip themselves. The police are
bizarrely convinced it's theft and although they won't touch it
themselves, insist the proper course of action is to attempt to reunite
the trolly/bike with its original owner.
--
Roland Perry

Re: C5 tube program

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Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Mon, 18 Mar 2024 15:54 UTC

On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 13:56:38 +0000
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>Anyway, it floated to the bank and eventually, about a day later,
>someone unknown fished(sic) it out and put it on the grass verge. It
>then took around three days for a suitably qualified person to come and
>collect it. (I know all this, because I'd called the people responsible
>the first day).

You must have fussy foxes where you live. It would be gone here within a few
hours.

>lack the incentive to take it to tip themselves. The police are
>bizarrely convinced it's theft and although they won't touch it
>themselves, insist the proper course of action is to attempt to reunite
>the trolly/bike with its original owner.

Shouldn't be too hard in the case of a supermarket trolley.

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From: rol...@perry.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 16:39:16 +0000
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 18 Mar 2024 16:39 UTC

In message <ut9o3n$8fko$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:54:31 on Mon, 18 Mar
2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 13:56:38 +0000
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>Anyway, it floated to the bank and eventually, about a day later,
>>someone unknown fished(sic) it out and put it on the grass verge. It
>>then took around three days for a suitably qualified person to come and
>>collect it. (I know all this, because I'd called the people responsible
>>the first day).
>
>You must have fussy foxes where you live. It would be gone here within a few
>hours.

It's not London, we don't have urban foxes. In fact the landscape means
we don't have many rural ones either.

>>lack the incentive to take it to tip themselves. The police are
>>bizarrely convinced it's theft and although they won't touch it
>>themselves, insist the proper course of action is to attempt to reunite
>>the trolly/bike with its original owner.
>
>Shouldn't be too hard in the case of a supermarket trolley.

It depends, some have a name on, some don't. And very occasionally it's
a supermarket with no branch in the town. Anyway, they are so covered in
weed and grime (and often have mechanical damage) it'd be impossible to
refurbish them, so they won't collect them. Nor I think can anyone force
them to.
--
Roland Perry

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 17:05:31 +0000
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 by: Graeme Wall - Mon, 18 Mar 2024 17:05 UTC

On 18/03/2024 15:54, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 13:56:38 +0000
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> Anyway, it floated to the bank and eventually, about a day later,
>> someone unknown fished(sic) it out and put it on the grass verge. It
>> then took around three days for a suitably qualified person to come and
>> collect it. (I know all this, because I'd called the people responsible
>> the first day).
>
> You must have fussy foxes where you live. It would be gone here within a few
> hours.
>
>> lack the incentive to take it to tip themselves. The police are
>> bizarrely convinced it's theft and although they won't touch it
>> themselves, insist the proper course of action is to attempt to reunite
>> the trolly/bike with its original owner.
>
> Shouldn't be too hard in the case of a supermarket trolley.
>
>

Depends how long it's been in the water.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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From: gemeha...@btinternet.co.uk (Marland)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
Date: 18 Mar 2024 17:37:24 GMT
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 by: Marland - Mon, 18 Mar 2024 17:37 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <ut9o3n$8fko$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:54:31 on Mon, 18 Mar
> 2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>> On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 13:56:38 +0000
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> Anyway, it floated to the bank and eventually, about a day later,
>>> someone unknown fished(sic) it out and put it on the grass verge. It
>>> then took around three days for a suitably qualified person to come and
>>> collect it. (I know all this, because I'd called the people responsible
>>> the first day).
>>
>> You must have fussy foxes where you live. It would be gone here within a few
>> hours.
>
> It's not London, we don't have urban foxes. In fact the landscape means
> we don't have many rural ones either.
>
>>> lack the incentive to take it to tip themselves. The police are
>>> bizarrely convinced it's theft and although they won't touch it
>>> themselves, insist the proper course of action is to attempt to reunite
>>> the trolly/bike with its original owner.
>>
>> Shouldn't be too hard in the case of a supermarket trolley.
>
> It depends, some have a name on, some don't. And very occasionally it's
> a supermarket with no branch in the town. Anyway, they are so covered in
> weed and grime (and often have mechanical damage) it'd be impossible to
> refurbish them, so they won't collect them. Nor I think can anyone force
> them to.

Some stores use a scheme called Trolleywise which you can fill in the
details for if the trolley owner is identifiable.

Cambridge Council have a handy guide for which recovery channel to use

<https://www.cambridge.gov.uk/report-an-abandoned-shopping-trolley>

Many years ago a mate who was a bit of a sod used to buy a load of goods
at B&Q and wheel the trolley load home, he would then phone the recovery
number and inform them there was an abandoned trolley on the pavement near
his address which needed collection.

GH

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From: rol...@perry.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 17:39:24 +0000
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 18 Mar 2024 17:39 UTC

In message <ut9s8r$9c7i$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:05:31 on Mon, 18 Mar
2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:

[Abandoned supermarket trolleys]

>>> lack the incentive to take it to tip themselves. The police are
>>> bizarrely convinced it's theft and although they won't touch it
>>> themselves, insist the proper course of action is to attempt to reunite
>>> the trolly/bike with its original owner.
>> Shouldn't be too hard in the case of a supermarket trolley.
>
>Depends how long it's been in the water.

I'm told it's like pulling teeth to even get them to collect brand new
ones that haven't been in the river (but typically used by boaters to
bring their shopping to the boat, then bugger off without returning
them).

Even a trapped £1 coin (which less than half of the shops require
anyway) isn't a silver bullet to the shoppers. Some of the shops
are a good 10 minutes walk - uphill - from where the boaters moor.

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From: rol...@perry.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 18:04:14 +0000
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 18 Mar 2024 18:04 UTC

In message <l5rcekFn8lrU1@mid.individual.net>, at 17:37:24 on Mon, 18
Mar 2024, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Shouldn't be too hard in the case of a supermarket trolley.
>>
>> It depends, some have a name on, some don't. And very occasionally it's
>> a supermarket with no branch in the town. Anyway, they are so covered in
>> weed and grime (and often have mechanical damage) it'd be impossible to
>> refurbish them, so they won't collect them. Nor I think can anyone force
>> them to.
>
>Some stores use a scheme called Trolleywise which you can fill in the
>details for if the trolley owner is identifiable.
>
>Cambridge Council have a handy guide for which recovery channel to use
>
><https://www.cambridge.gov.uk/report-an-abandoned-shopping-trolley>

Different councils have different levels of service for that kind of
thing. ECDC doesn't, perhaps because their territory is 15x[2] the
size of the City of Cambridge.

City of Cambridge also appear to be very fierce about unilaterally[1]
removing commercial vinyls from things like railings by the side of the
road, but on the other hand have a few sites (like outside Gt St Marys)
where they positively encourage locals to post notices.

[1] Unless they have a special byelaw, which I doubt (because it's a
criminal-waiver rather than civil-penalty matter), the correct
procedure is to issue a 14-day notice to the perp. Otherwise it
counts as criminal damage!

[2] Yes, I looked it up. I don't know the SCDC policy, but they (and/or
a recovery company) have 22x the area to patrol.

> Many years ago a mate who was a bit of a sod used to buy a load of goods
>at B&Q and wheel the trolley load home, he would then phone the recovery
>number and inform them there was an abandoned trolley on the pavement near
>his address which needed collection.

There's always one!
--
Roland Perry

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From: Cer...@example.org (Certes)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 18:28:16 +0000
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 by: Certes - Mon, 18 Mar 2024 18:28 UTC

On 18/03/2024 17:39, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <ut9s8r$9c7i$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:05:31 on Mon, 18 Mar
> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>
> [Abandoned supermarket trolleys]
>
>>>> lack the incentive to take it to tip themselves. The police are
>>>> bizarrely convinced it's theft and although they won't touch it
>>>> themselves, insist the proper course of action is to attempt to reunite
>>>> the trolly/bike with its original owner.
>>>  Shouldn't be too hard in the case of a supermarket trolley.
>>
>> Depends how long it's been in the water.
>
> I'm told it's like pulling teeth to even get them to collect brand new
> ones that haven't been in the river (but typically used by boaters to
> bring their shopping to the boat, then bugger off without returning them).
>
> Even a trapped £1 coin (which less than half of the shops require
> anyway) isn't a silver bullet to the shoppers. Some of the shops
> are a good 10 minutes walk - uphill - from where the boaters moor.

Trolley keys, available for a couple of pounds, are a season ticket
valid for unlimited one-way trolley trips without spending £1 each time.

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 20:42:37 +0000
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 by: Graeme Wall - Mon, 18 Mar 2024 20:42 UTC

On 18/03/2024 17:39, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <ut9s8r$9c7i$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:05:31 on Mon, 18 Mar
> 2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>
> [Abandoned supermarket trolleys]
>
>>>> lack the incentive to take it to tip themselves. The police are
>>>> bizarrely convinced it's theft and although they won't touch it
>>>> themselves, insist the proper course of action is to attempt to reunite
>>>> the trolly/bike with its original owner.
>>>  Shouldn't be too hard in the case of a supermarket trolley.
>>
>> Depends how long it's been in the water.
>
> I'm told it's like pulling teeth to even get them to collect brand new
> ones that haven't been in the river (but typically used by boaters to
> bring their shopping to the boat, then bugger off without returning them).
>
> Even a trapped £1 coin (which less than half of the shops require
> anyway) isn't a silver bullet to the shoppers. Some of the shops
> are a good 10 minutes walk - uphill - from where the boaters moor.

Used to be a source of revenue for small boys, returning them to the
store and retrieving the pound coins.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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From: rol...@perry.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 20:51:17 +0000
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 18 Mar 2024 20:51 UTC

In message <uta140$aeo6$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:28:16 on Mon, 18 Mar
2024, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>On 18/03/2024 17:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <ut9s8r$9c7i$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:05:31 on Mon, 18 Mar
>>2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> [Abandoned supermarket trolleys]
>>
>>>>> lack the incentive to take it to tip themselves. The police are
>>>>> bizarrely convinced it's theft and although they won't touch it
>>>>> themselves, insist the proper course of action is to attempt to reunite
>>>>> the trolly/bike with its original owner.
>>>>  Shouldn't be too hard in the case of a supermarket trolley.
>>>
>>> Depends how long it's been in the water.

>> I'm told it's like pulling teeth to even get them to collect brand
>>new ones that haven't been in the river (but typically used by
>>boaters to bring their shopping to the boat, then bugger off without
>>returning them).

>> Even a trapped £1 coin (which less than half of the shops require
>>anyway) isn't a silver bullet to the shoppers. Some of the shops
>> are a good 10 minutes walk - uphill - from where the boaters moor.
>
>Trolley keys, available for a couple of pounds, are a season ticket
>valid for unlimited one-way trolley trips without spending £1 each time.

Not if they are locked inside an abandoned trolley! Or do you mean a key
to eject them...

Anyway, the average boater isn't that well organised, I'm afraid.
--
Roland Perry

Re: C5 tube program

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From: rol...@perry.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 20:54:50 +0000
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 by: Roland Perry - Mon, 18 Mar 2024 20:54 UTC

In message <uta8vt$cauu$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:42:37 on Mon, 18 Mar
2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 18/03/2024 17:39, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <ut9s8r$9c7i$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:05:31 on Mon, 18 Mar
>>2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> [Abandoned supermarket trolleys]
>>
>>>>> lack the incentive to take it to tip themselves. The police are
>>>>> bizarrely convinced it's theft and although they won't touch it
>>>>> themselves, insist the proper course of action is to attempt to reunite
>>>>> the trolly/bike with its original owner.

>>>>  Shouldn't be too hard in the case of a supermarket trolley.
>>>
>>> Depends how long it's been in the water.

>> I'm told it's like pulling teeth to even get them to collect brand
>>new ones that haven't been in the river (but typically used by
>>boaters to bring their shopping to the boat, then bugger off without
>>returning them).

>> Even a trapped £1 coin (which less than half of the shops require
>>anyway) isn't a silver bullet to the shoppers. Some of the shops
>> are a good 10 minutes walk - uphill - from where the boaters moor.
>
>Used to be a source of revenue for small boys, returning them to the
>store and retrieving the pound coins.

Except it might not be a pound coin. I use a token I bought in Aldi for
pennies. It also clips on my keyring so I always have it, whereas I
rarely have any change in my pocket nowadays.

For the real pros there's an Eastern European coin worth about 10p which
is almost exactly the same dimensions as a pound coin. I used to carry a
few of those in the ashtray in my car.
--
Roland Perry

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From: rai...@greywall.demon.co.uk (Graeme Wall)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 20:58:38 +0000
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 by: Graeme Wall - Mon, 18 Mar 2024 20:58 UTC

On 18/03/2024 20:54, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> Even a trapped £1 coin (which less than half of the shops require
>>> anyway) isn't a silver bullet to the shoppers. Some of the shops
>>> are a good 10 minutes walk - uphill - from where the boaters moor.
>>
>> Used to be a source of revenue for small boys, returning them to the
>> store and retrieving the pound coins.
>
> Except it might not be a pound coin. I use a token I bought in Aldi for
> pennies. It also clips on my keyring so I always have it, whereas I
> rarely have any change in my pocket nowadays.

I've one of those I acquired at a trade show decades ago. Can't remember
who from as the branding wore off a long time back.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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From: gemeha...@btinternet.co.uk (Marland)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
Date: 18 Mar 2024 21:18:31 GMT
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 by: Marland - Mon, 18 Mar 2024 21:18 UTC

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 18/03/2024 20:54, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> Even a trapped £1 coin (which less than half of the shops require
>>>> anyway) isn't a silver bullet to the shoppers. Some of the shops
>>>> are a good 10 minutes walk - uphill - from where the boaters moor.
>>>
>>> Used to be a source of revenue for small boys, returning them to the
>>> store and retrieving the pound coins.
>>
>> Except it might not be a pound coin. I use a token I bought in Aldi for
>> pennies. It also clips on my keyring so I always have it, whereas I
>> rarely have any change in my pocket nowadays.
>
> I've one of those I acquired at a trade show decades ago. Can't remember
> who from as the branding wore off a long time back.
>

I’m sure we actually have a plastic one branded Tesco, confers with missis
.. Ah its supposed to be for dropping in a box to support a charity , no
wonder the trolley put up a bit of a fight when I retrieved it. The
Waitrose equivalent is like a green tiddly wink so no confusion .

GH

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From: rol...@perry.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2024 02:33:17 +0000
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 by: Roland Perry - Tue, 19 Mar 2024 02:33 UTC

In message <uta9tv$cauu$2@dont-email.me>, at 20:58:38 on Mon, 18 Mar
2024, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 18/03/2024 20:54, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> Even a trapped £1 coin (which less than half of the shops require
>>>>anyway) isn't a silver bullet to the shoppers. Some of the shops
>>>> are a good 10 minutes walk - uphill - from where the boaters moor.
>>>
>>> Used to be a source of revenue for small boys, returning them to the
>>>store and retrieving the pound coins.

>> Except it might not be a pound coin. I use a token I bought in Aldi
>>for pennies. It also clips on my keyring so I always have it, whereas
>>I rarely have any change in my pocket nowadays.
>
>I've one of those I acquired at a trade show decades ago. Can't
>remember who from as the branding wore off a long time back.

I used to have one issued by a local employment agency, slightly more
novel than a ballpoint pen and cheaper than a mousemat.
--
Roland Perry

Re: C5 tube program

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From: charlese...@btinternet.com (Charles Ellson)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
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 by: Charles Ellson - Tue, 19 Mar 2024 03:38 UTC

On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 15:54:31 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
wrote:

>On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 13:56:38 +0000
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>Anyway, it floated to the bank and eventually, about a day later,
>>someone unknown fished(sic) it out and put it on the grass verge. It
>>then took around three days for a suitably qualified person to come and
>>collect it. (I know all this, because I'd called the people responsible
>>the first day).
>
>You must have fussy foxes where you live. It would be gone here within a few
>hours.
>
If cats, gulls, rats etc. don't beat them to it.
<snip>

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From: charlese...@btinternet.com (Charles Ellson)
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2024 03:46:47 +0000
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 by: Charles Ellson - Tue, 19 Mar 2024 03:46 UTC

On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 09:14:59 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
wrote:

>I'm not often left speechless but last nights C5 program about the tube
>managed it. LU left 200 people in 40C heat for at least 2 hours in a train
>stopped in a tunnel in order to try and rescue a dog that had run down the
>tunnel. Words genuinely failed me but I think it pretty much sums up everything
>thats wrong with the state apparatus in this country and the fucked up
>priorities of the morons that work in it.
>
>I'm waiting for the day someone sues the arse off LU/TfL when there's a serious
>issue with a passenger caused by something like this.
>
>As for the total cockwomble laughably called the "driver", 60K a year for
>that waste of space? God help us.
>
Until you catch or find it then you don't know what piece of equipment
or cabling it might get tangled up with or damaged along with it if it
gets incinerated.

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From: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com
Newsgroups: uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2024 09:19:44 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mutt...@dastardlyhq.com - Tue, 19 Mar 2024 09:19 UTC

On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 03:46:47 +0000
Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 09:14:59 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>wrote:
>
>>I'm not often left speechless but last nights C5 program about the tube
>>managed it. LU left 200 people in 40C heat for at least 2 hours in a train
>>stopped in a tunnel in order to try and rescue a dog that had run down the
>>tunnel. Words genuinely failed me but I think it pretty much sums up
>everything
>>thats wrong with the state apparatus in this country and the fucked up
>>priorities of the morons that work in it.
>>
>>I'm waiting for the day someone sues the arse off LU/TfL when there's a
>serious
>>issue with a passenger caused by something like this.
>>
>>As for the total cockwomble laughably called the "driver", 60K a year for
>>that waste of space? God help us.
>>
>Until you catch or find it then you don't know what piece of equipment
>or cabling it might get tangled up with or damaged along with it if it
>gets incinerated.

Irrelevant. The train had power until the window licker in the drivers seat
disabled it. She should have got the train to the platform first then worried
about the mutt.

Also using your rationale it could start a fire in the tunnel so there's even
more reason for getting the train out of it.

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Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
Date: 19 Mar 2024 09:44:14 GMT
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 by: Marland - Tue, 19 Mar 2024 09:44 UTC

Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 09:14:59 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
> wrote:
>
>> I'm not often left speechless but last nights C5 program about the tube
>> managed it. LU left 200 people in 40C heat for at least 2 hours in a train
>> stopped in a tunnel in order to try and rescue a dog that had run down the
>> tunnel. Words genuinely failed me but I think it pretty much sums up everything
>> thats wrong with the state apparatus in this country and the fucked up
>> priorities of the morons that work in it.
>>
>> I'm waiting for the day someone sues the arse off LU/TfL when there's a serious
>> issue with a passenger caused by something like this.
>>
>> As for the total cockwomble laughably called the "driver", 60K a year for
>> that waste of space? God help us.
>>
> Until you catch or find it then you don't know what piece of equipment
> or cabling it might get tangled up with or damaged along with it if it
> gets incinerated.
>

I was surprised the dog had not received a fatal electric shock at some
point, but then Dogs don’t perspire like we do except on their Paw pads so
dry hair will be a good insulator ,perhaps it got an initial tingle and
soon learnt to stay clear of that area. OTOH if a body human or animal does
make good contact with the rail and stays there then the result can be the
cadaver catches fire .
A cooking carcass with the associated smell and smoke would be particularly
unpleasant in a tube tunnel which if it penetrated a train would likely
cause panic amongst the passengers .

GH

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From: rol...@perry.uk (Roland Perry)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2024 10:39:51 +0000
Organization: Roland Perry
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 by: Roland Perry - Tue, 19 Mar 2024 10:39 UTC

In message <p22ivipqbpijvollsd2l991q3rou23edbs@4ax.com>, at 03:38:14 on
Tue, 19 Mar 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
>On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 15:54:31 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 13:56:38 +0000
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>Anyway, it floated to the bank and eventually, about a day later,
>>>someone unknown fished(sic) it out and put it on the grass verge. It
>>>then took around three days for a suitably qualified person to come and
>>>collect it. (I know all this, because I'd called the people responsible
>>>the first day).
>>
>>You must have fussy foxes where you live. It would be gone here within a few
>>hours.
>>
>If cats, gulls, rats etc. don't beat them to it.
><snip>

I wonder why you institutionally refuse to believe me. The fish was
intact the whole time (I've got photos if you really insist on keeping
digging).
--
Roland Perry

Re: C5 tube program

<l5ta4eF1lp9U1@mid.individual.net>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=15433&group=uk.transport.london#15433

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From: gemeha...@btinternet.co.uk (Marland)
Newsgroups: uk.railway,uk.transport.london
Subject: Re: C5 tube program
Date: 19 Mar 2024 11:10:06 GMT
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 by: Marland - Tue, 19 Mar 2024 11:10 UTC

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <p22ivipqbpijvollsd2l991q3rou23edbs@4ax.com>, at 03:38:14 on
> Tue, 19 Mar 2024, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
> remarked:
>> On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 15:54:31 -0000 (UTC), Muttley@dastardlyhq.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 13:56:38 +0000
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> Anyway, it floated to the bank and eventually, about a day later,
>>>> someone unknown fished(sic) it out and put it on the grass verge. It
>>>> then took around three days for a suitably qualified person to come and
>>>> collect it. (I know all this, because I'd called the people responsible
>>>> the first day).
>>>
>>> You must have fussy foxes where you live. It would be gone here within a few
>>> hours.
>>>
>> If cats, gulls, rats etc. don't beat them to it.
>> <snip>
>
> I wonder why you institutionally refuse to believe me. The fish was
> intact the whole time (I've got photos if you really insist on keeping
> digging).

I don’t think people are disbelieving you, just expressing surprise that
natural predators did not avail themselves of an easy sourced meal which
usually happens quite quickly.
Perhaps it had died from some disease and was emitting a certain odour or
other sign and those creatures who usually can handle far less savoury
flesh than humans were alerted that in this case
eating it would be a health risk.

No need to Carp on about it.

GH


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