.... is that it stores all your emails on the server.

Mostly this is a convenience.

However, the problem is that - unless the user does something explicit -
they stay there forever. However much storage the user has - 500MB,
5GB, 50GB - it will eventually fill up - and the user will not receive
any more emails - and will not understand why.

Compare with POP, where the server sends the email to the client and
deletes it from itself (unless the user does something explicit to
prevent that).

I know I can set up rules on my mail client to delete old or unwanted or
unread emails - but ordinary users don't do this, or understand the need.

How do you teach them?

--
Graham J

In article <u0hk17$3g6de$1@dont-email.me>, Graham J
<nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:

> ... is that it stores all your emails on the server.
>
> Mostly this is a convenience.

very much so.

> However, the problem is that - unless the user does something explicit -
> they stay there forever. However much storage the user has - 500MB,
> 5GB, 50GB - it will eventually fill up - and the user will not receive
> any more emails - and will not understand why.

anyone who can fill 50 gb with email has more serious problems than pop
versus imap.

> Compare with POP, where the server sends the email to the client and
> deletes it from itself (unless the user does something explicit to
> prevent that).

which makes reading it on more than one device impossible, or at best
very difficult, with a strong likelihood of making a mistake in the
process, resulting in lost email.

also keep in mind that a lot of mail clients as well as mail providers
no longer support pop.

> I know I can set up rules on my mail client to delete old or unwanted or
> unread emails - but ordinary users don't do this, or understand the need.

most people don't have the need.

> How do you teach them?

for those that do, show them how to create a rule to move mail locally
(or manually if they prefer), and also show them the advantages of
leaving it on the server.

Am 04.04.23 um 18:42 schrieb Graham J:
> ... is that it stores all your emails on the server.
>
> Mostly this is a convenience.

And more so it guarantees consistent mail-data-bases on all devices.

> However, the problem is that - unless the user does something explicit -
> they stay there forever. However much storage the user has - 500MB,
> 5GB, 50GB - it will eventually fill up - and the user will not receive
> any more emails - and will not understand why.

The user does not seem to be interested in mails nor does he or she
understand how e-mail works. Minimal maintenance can be expected by the
user. Good clients allow automatic archiving of old mails outside the
quota an predefined holding periods.

> Compare with POP, where the server sends the email to the client and
> deletes it from itself (unless the user does something explicit to
> prevent that).

Very old style and inefficient. What about your mobile? Even worse for
the sent-folder.

> I know I can set up rules on my mail client to delete old or unwanted or
> unread emails - but ordinary users don't do this, or understand the need.

You are not the only superhero on this planet. For 90%+ of the
mail-users this issue is a non-issue. Ony people above 60 think this is
a problem.

> How do you teach them?

None of your business if nobody asks and/or you are not the admin in a
company.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

Am 04.04.23 um 18:42 schrieb Graham J:
> ... is that it stores all your emails on the server.
>
> Mostly this is a convenience.
>
> However, the problem is that - unless the user does something explicit -
> they stay there forever. However much storage the user has - 500MB,
> 5GB, 50GB - it will eventually fill up - and the user will not receive
> any more emails - and will not understand why.
>
> Compare with POP, where the server sends the email to the client and
> deletes it from itself (unless the user does something explicit to
> prevent that).
>
> I know I can set up rules on my mail client to delete old or unwanted or
> unread emails - but ordinary users don't do this, or understand the need.
>
> How do you teach them?

I just checked my busiest mailbox: 572 mails in the inbox with 96 MB.
That means with a rather small mailbox of 1000 MB I could store 6000
mails in total.

Even if this mailbox was not managed properly it would take a while to
reach the limit.

A lot of the younger users access their mails by web-interface from time
to time: It would show and warn them when the limit is reached.

It is almost like the mailboxes in the analogue world: At one point they
have to be emptied to get new mails.

--
De gustibus non est disputandum

On 04 Apr 2023 at 18:08:34 BST, "nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <u0hk17$3g6de$1@dont-email.me>, Graham J
> <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> ... is that it stores all your emails on the server.
>>
>> Mostly this is a convenience.
>
> very much so.
>
>> However, the problem is that - unless the user does something explicit -
>> they stay there forever. However much storage the user has - 500MB,
>> 5GB, 50GB - it will eventually fill up - and the user will not receive
>> any more emails - and will not understand why.
>
> anyone who can fill 50 gb with email has more serious problems than pop
> versus imap.
>
>> Compare with POP, where the server sends the email to the client and
>> deletes it from itself (unless the user does something explicit to
>> prevent that).
>
> which makes reading it on more than one device impossible, or at best
> very difficult, with a strong likelihood of making a mistake in the
> process, resulting in lost email.

I'm not at all fussed about reading mail on more than one device.

> also keep in mind that a lot of mail clients as well as mail providers
> no longer support pop.

Mostly they do. I didn't bother implementing IMAP in my client as POP3 is fine
for me. I looked into implementing it, but decided I couldn't be arsed. Same
with OAUTH2.

>> I know I can set up rules on my mail client to delete old or unwanted or
>> unread emails - but ordinary users don't do this, or understand the need.
>
> most people don't have the need.

I just delete it based on a number of days it's been on the server. That's
perfectly adequate for me.

>> How do you teach them?
>
> for those that do, show them how to create a rule to move mail locally
> (or manually if they prefer), and also show them the advantages of
> leaving it on the server.

Leaving it there for a few days is all I need. Although I've provided the
options for the user to delete it immediately after download, or never delete.
None of my small band of users has ever asked for anything different.

--
Tim

In article <k93f91F8r2sU1@mid.individual.net>, TimS
<tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:

>
> I'm not at all fussed about reading mail on more than one device.

you might not, but nearly everyone else uses more than one device,
typically a phone and laptop/desktop, often more than just those two.

> > also keep in mind that a lot of mail clients as well as mail providers
> > no longer support pop.
>
> Mostly they do.

maybe for now, but more and more are dropping support for pop.

> I didn't bother implementing IMAP in my client as POP3 is fine
> for me. I looked into implementing it, but decided I couldn't be arsed. Same
> with OAUTH2.

then your mail client is not very good and wont' work with numerous
email providers.

pop is obsolete and has been replaced with imap,, and even that is
starting to be replaced with jmap: <https://jmap.io>.

> >> I know I can set up rules on my mail client to delete old or unwanted or
> >> unread emails - but ordinary users don't do this, or understand the need.
> >
> > most people don't have the need.
>
> I just delete it based on a number of days it's been on the server. That's
> perfectly adequate for me.

again, what's fine for you is not fine for the rest of the world.

On 4 Apr 2023 at 18:08:34 BST, "nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> anyone who can fill 50 gb with email has more serious problems than pop
> versus imap.

(Disregarding work email systems, which will be (a) somewhat managed and
(b) have different usage patterns)

From my historical experience, this used to happen to people who used
email as their photo sharing mechanism. That's largely supplanted now by
social media, so I've not seen anyone run out of email space in *years*.

I only check mine every two-three days now. It's no longer a primary
communication app. Which still seems weird.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
I think perhaps the most important problem is that we
are trying to understand the fundamental workings of
the universe via a language devised for telling one
another when the best fruit is.
-- Terry Pratchett

In article <k93jhgF9erpU1@mid.individual.net>, Jaimie Vandenbergh
<jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:

> From my historical experience, this used to happen to people who used
> email as their photo sharing mechanism. That's largely supplanted now by
> social media, so I've not seen anyone run out of email space in *years*.

it goes even deeper than that.

long ago, there was a file system extension to make gmail look like a
cloud drive, which at the time, was a lot of storage.

<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/how-to-use-gmail-as-an-onlin
e-drive/>

Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> ... is that it stores all your emails on the server.
>
> Mostly this is a convenience.
>
> However, the problem is that - unless the user does something explicit -
> they stay there forever. However much storage the user has - 500MB,
> 5GB, 50GB - it will eventually fill up - and the user will not receive
> any more emails - and will not understand why.

In theory, yes. In practice, no.

I have gmail accounts I've used for decades and they're still not full on
the free tier.

My work email which has >15 years and >120,000 of emails including
attachments is only 24GB. I have 100GB of space. I may fill it by the time
I retire, but probably not.

> Compare with POP, where the server sends the email to the client and
> deletes it from itself (unless the user does something explicit to
> prevent that).
>
> I know I can set up rules on my mail client to delete old or unwanted or
> unread emails - but ordinary users don't do this, or understand the need.
>
> How do you teach them?

Don't. Email storage is negligible whereas loss of important emails is not.

On 04/04/2023 17:42, Graham J wrote:
> ... is that it stores all your emails on the server.
>
> Mostly this is a convenience.
>
> However, the problem is that - unless the user does something explicit -
> they stay there forever.  However much storage the user has - 500MB,
> 5GB, 50GB - it will eventually fill up - and the user will not receive
> any more emails - and will not understand why.

iCloud handles this by emailing (sic) you when you're approaching a full
quota. Mail clients could detect certain protocol errors as "out of disk
space" and give you meaningful alerts.

But as others have noted, unless you're in the habit of emailing photos
to yourself, hitting any reasonable mail system's quota is quite hard.

I was always told in a prior company that disk space was cheap, which is
still true.

--
Chris

In article <040420231308342365%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>and also show them the advantages of leaving it on the server.

If only you could run grep on the server.

-- Richard

In article <u0k1ti$2vcm$1@macpro.inf.ed.ac.uk>, Richard Tobin
<richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

> >and also show them the advantages of leaving it on the server.
>
> If only you could run grep on the server.

eh? it's easy to search email on the server.