https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224

On 30/4/2024 2:53 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236
>
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224

Not surprised that they failed, its a tough market to get into.
I suspect that they tried to get too big too quick without testing the
market first.

--
Daryl

Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236

>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224

> Not surprised that they failed,

Me neither.

> its a tough market to get into.

And they had a completely stupid business model which was never going
to fly, entirely between small regional airports apart from Melburg and
few are silly enough to fly from those small regional airports to Melburg.

> I suspect that they tried to get too big tooquick without testing the
> market first.

That wouldnt have worked either.

It will be interesting to see how Rex goes.

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236

> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224

https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/bonza-flights-cancelled-as-aircraft-repossessed-20240430-p5fnjf

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236

>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224

> https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/bonza-flights-cancelled-as-aircraft-repossessed-20240430-p5fnjf

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-doomed-to-failure-from-the-start/103785860

On 30/4/2024 4:00 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236
>
>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224
>
>> Not surprised that they failed,
>
> Me neither.
>
>> its a tough market to get into.
>
> And they had a completely stupid business model which was never going
> to fly, entirely between small regional airports apart from Melburg and
> few are silly enough to fly from those small regional airports to Melburg.

One time when we wanted to fly to Qld to visit friends on the north side
of Bris I looked to see if it would be cheaper to fly Bonza from Melb to
the Sunshine Coast, their prices weren't much cheaper and the distance
from the SC airport to our friends place was an extra half hour drive
over just flying to Bris so it wasn't worth our while flying Bonza.
For Bonza to work out for us they would have to have been significantly
cheaper and they just weren't.
>
>> I suspect that they tried to get too big tooquick without testing the
>> market first.
>
> That wouldnt have worked either.
>
> It will be interesting to see how Rex goes.

At least they fly between major airports, I can fly Melb to Bris return
on Rex, I haven't yet as their prices aren't any cheaper than the either
Virgin or Jetstar at the times I've checked.
I know some people that have flown Rex and they were happy with the
price and service.

--
Daryl

Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236

>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224

>>> Not surprised that they failed,

>> Me neither.

>>> its a tough market to get into.

>> And they had a completely stupid business model which was never going
>> to fly, entirely between small regional airports apart from Melburg and
>> few are silly enough to fly from those small regional airports to
>> Melburg.

> One time when we wanted to fly to Qld to visit friends on the north side
> of Bris I looked to see if it would be cheaper to fly Bonza from Melb to
> the Sunshine Coast, their prices weren't much cheaper and the distance
> from the SC airport to our friends place was an extra half hour drive
> over just flying to Bris so it wasn't worth our while flying Bonza.

> For Bonza to work out for us they would have to have been significantly
> cheaper and they just weren't.

Yeah, but its the other way for those 'living' in the sunshine coast.

But that was never going to come even close to filling a 737.

The entire buisiness model was completey hare brained.

>>> I suspect that they tried to get too big too
>>> quick without testing the market first.

>> That wouldnt have worked either.

>> It will be interesting to see how Rex goes.

> At least they fly between major airports,

And lots of regional airports too.

> I can fly Melb to Bris return on Rex, I haven't yetas their prices
> aren't any cheaper than the either Virgin or Jetstar at the times I've
> checked.

And they aren't much more reliable either, they have
been having significant problems with a lack of crew.

> I know some people that have flown Rex andthey were happy with the
> price and service.

Yeah, haven't seen any complaints about the service.

On 30/04/2024 4:42 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236
>
>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224
>
>> https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/bonza-flights-cancelled-as-aircraft-repossessed-20240430-p5fnjf
>
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-doomed-to-failure-from-the-start/103785860

The lease payments on the brand new 737 MAXs would have been the first
problem.

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236

>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224

>> https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/bonza-flights-cancelled-as-aircraft-repossessed-20240430-p5fnjf

> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-doomed-to-failure-from-the-start/103785860

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-04/777-partners-the-private-equity-firm-behind-bonza/103802624

keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236

>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224

>>> https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/bonza-flights-cancelled-as-aircraft-repossessed-20240430-p5fnjf

>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-doomed-to-failure-from-the-start/103785860

> The lease payments on the brand new 737 MAXs would have been the first
> problem.

The real problem was the fucked business model, using planes
that size to regional airports. No chance of filling aircraft like that
at regional airports. And only flying to one state capital, Melburg.

That was never going to be viable.

On 4/5/2024 3:23 am, Rod Speed wrote:
> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236
>
>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224
>
>>>> https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/bonza-flights-cancelled-as-aircraft-repossessed-20240430-p5fnjf
>
>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-doomed-to-failure-from-the-start/103785860
>
>> The lease payments on the brand new 737 MAXs would have been the first
>> problem.
>
> The real problem was the fucked business model, using planes
> that size to regional airports. No chance of filling aircraft like that
> at regional airports. And only flying to one state capital, Melburg.
>
> That was never going to be viable.

I was just reading an article in the ABC news, it stated that those
aircraft were "forced" onto the Bonza by it backer 777 partners simply
because their aircraft leasing partner had 30 737 Max's available.
The Bonza boss is also saying that he needed at least 10 aircraft to be
viable but they would only let him have 4 so as you say it was doomed
from the start.
Even with the right size and number or aircraft it was still going to
struggle but at least it would of had a small chance of success.
--
Daryl

Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236

>>>>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224

>>>>>>> https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/bonza-flights-cancelled-as-aircraft-repossessed-20240430-p5fnjf

>>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-doomed-to-failure-from-the-start/103785860

>>>>> The lease payments on the brand new 737 MAXswould have been the
>>>>> first problem.

>>>> The real problem was the fucked business model, using planes
>>>> that size to regional airports. No chance of filling aircraft like
>>>> that
>>>> at regional airports. And only flying to one state capital, Melburg.

>>>> That was never going to be viable.

>>> I was just reading an article in the ABC news, it stated that those
>>> aircraft were "forced" onto the Bonza by it backer 777 partners simply
>>> because their aircraft leasing partner had 30 737 Max's available.

>> No ABC news article ever said that.

> They didn't use the word "forced" but their backers already had a fleet
> of 737's they needed to put to work so a better word would be that Bonza
> was obligated to use those aircraft.
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-04/777-partners-the-private-equity-firm-behind-bonza/103802624
> "The large Boeing 737s are arguably the wrong fit for Bonza, flying
> second and third-tier routes, and appear to have been used as ameans to
> soak up the US backer's fleet and provide it with income".

That is just plain wrong. 777 Partners already had lots of 737 MAX 8s
leased
to Flare in Canada and that is where the 4 that Bonza got came from.

On 4/5/2024 12:46 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236
>
>>>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224
>
>>>>>> https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/bonza-flights-cancelled-as-aircraft-repossessed-20240430-p5fnjf
>
>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-doomed-to-failure-from-the-start/103785860
>
>>>> The lease payments on the brand new 737 MAXswould have been the
>>>> first  problem.
>
>>> The real problem was the fucked business model, using planes
>>> that size to regional airports. No chance of filling aircraft like that
>>> at regional airports. And only flying to one state capital, Melburg.
>>>  That was never going to be viable.
>
>> I was just reading an article in the ABC news, it stated that those
>> aircraft were "forced" onto the Bonza by it backer 777 partners simply
>> because their aircraft leasing partner had 30 737 Max's available.
>
> No ABC news article ever said that.

They didn't use the word "forced" but their backers already had a fleet
of 737's they needed to put to work so a better word would be that Bonza
was obligated to use those aircraft.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-04/777-partners-the-private-equity-firm-behind-bonza/103802624
"The large Boeing 737s are arguably the wrong fit for Bonza, flying
second and third-tier routes, and appear to have been used as a means to
soak up the US backer's fleet and provide it with income".

--
Daryl

Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236

>>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224

>>>>> https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/bonza-flights-cancelled-as-aircraft-repossessed-20240430-p5fnjf

>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-doomed-to-failure-from-the-start/103785860

>>> The lease payments on the brand new 737 MAXswould have been the first
>>> problem.

>> The real problem was the fucked business model, using planes
>> that size to regional airports. No chance of filling aircraft like that
>> at regional airports. And only flying to one state capital, Melburg.
>> That was never going to be viable.

> I was just reading an article in the ABC news, it stated that those
> aircraft were "forced" onto the Bonza by it backer 777 partners simply
> because their aircraft leasing partner had 30 737 Max's available.

No ABC news article ever said that.

> The Bonza boss is also saying that heneeded at least 10 aircraft to be
> viable

Yes, he did say that but that is even sillier
given that he couldnt even manage to fill 4.

> but they would only let him have 4

That's wrong too. And if that was true, it was because
they clearly were not producing anything like the cash
flow to pay the lease costs on that many planes.

> so as you say it was doomed the start.

> Even with the right size and number or aircraft it was still goingto
> but at least it would of had a small chance of success.

Not with just the one state capital being flown to.

On 30/04/2024 10:24 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 30/4/2024 4:00 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236
>>>>>
>>
>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224
>>>>
>>
>>> Not surprised that they failed,
>>
>> Me neither.
>>
>>> its a tough market to get into.
>>
>> And they had a completely stupid business model which was never going
>> to fly, entirely between small regional airports apart from Melburg and
>> few are silly enough to fly from those small regional airports to
>> Melburg.
>
> One time when we wanted to fly to Qld to visit friends on the north
> side of Bris I looked to see if it would be cheaper to fly Bonza from
> Melb to the Sunshine Coast, their prices weren't much cheaper and the
> distance from the SC airport to our friends place was an extra half
> hour drive over just flying to Bris so it wasn't worth our while
> flying Bonza.
> For Bonza to work out for us they would have to have been
> significantly cheaper and they just weren't.
>>
>>> I suspect that they tried to get too big tooquick without testing
>>> the market first.
>>
>> That wouldnt have worked either.
>>
>> It will be interesting to see how Rex goes.
>
> At least they fly between major airports, I can fly Melb to Bris
> return on Rex, I haven't yet as their prices aren't any cheaper than
> the either Virgin or Jetstar at the times I've checked.
> I know some people that have flown Rex and they were happy with the
> price and service.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 Rex?, Moruya to Sydney $339 return!. For a (usually) under one hr
flight. By comparison, My last trip to NZ (pre covid) was $330 return.
ATM, $487 return (Air NZ Not the cheapest) Rex are price gougers!.

--
If you`re the smartest person in the room, you`re in the wrong room!.

On 7/5/2024 2:52 pm, jonz wrote:
> On 30/04/2024 10:24 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 30/4/2024 4:00 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236
>>>
>>>>> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/who-owns-bonza-whats-happening-with-the-airline-cancellations/103784224
>>>
>>>> Not surprised that they failed,
>>>
>>> Me neither.
>>>
>>>> its a tough market to get into.
>>>
>>> And they had a completely stupid business model which was never going
>>> to fly, entirely between small regional airports apart from Melburg and
>>> few are silly enough to fly from those small regional airports to
>>> Melburg.
>>
>> One time when we wanted to fly to Qld to visit friends on the north
>> side of Bris I looked to see if it would be cheaper to fly Bonza from
>> Melb to the Sunshine Coast, their prices weren't much cheaper and the
>> distance from the SC airport to our friends place was an extra half
>> hour drive over just flying to Bris so it wasn't worth our while
>> flying Bonza.
>> For Bonza to work out for us they would have to have been
>> significantly cheaper and they just weren't.
>>>
>>>> I suspect that they tried to get too big tooquick without testing
>>>> the market first.
>>>
>>> That wouldnt have worked either.
>>>
>>> It will be interesting to see how Rex goes.
>>
>> At least they fly between major airports, I can fly Melb to Bris
>> return on Rex, I haven't yet as their prices aren't any cheaper than
>> the either Virgin or Jetstar at the times I've checked.
>> I know some people that have flown Rex and they were happy with the
>> price and service.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>  Rex?, Moruya to Sydney $339 return!. For a (usually) under one hr
> flight. By comparison, My last trip to NZ (pre covid) was $330 return.
> ATM, $487 return (Air NZ Not the cheapest) Rex are price gougers!.
>
>
The price of flights seems to be related to how popular the route is and
how frequent they fly, does anyone else fly that same route and if so
have you compared their prices?
Longer haul routes using bigger planes have a lower cost per km traveled
so the fares are usually lower.
I regularly check Melb-Bris return flights because we often travel that
route to visit friends and Rex are often the cheapest.

--
Daryl