If that's what it is.

Some years ago I sowed some seeds which never seemed to germinate, so
I pushed the seed tray to one side and got on with life. But finding
the tray sometime later, I discovered that there had been some
germination, and several monocots were appearing, all identical. After
dying back last autumn, they appeared again this spring. They grow
quite long, typically 60cm I would say. Initially just a single shoot,
but towards the end of the summer I see that several small shoots have
appeared alongside the original, suggesting it's suckering or similar.
It looks very grassy but despite labeling the seed tray, the writing
has long disappeared, I have long forgotten what they were and I have
no idea now. Although I do sometimes get grass germinating in seed
trays, these don't look like any of the ones I usually see. They all
look the same and I doubt if I would have sown a grass, so I don't
think they are a grass.

At this stage in their lives, the only possible feature that might
identify them is the fact that the monocots have a cross-shaped
cross-section, like a plus sign: + .

With that rather vague description, can anyone hazard a guess as to
what they may possibly be? Otherwise I shall just have to pot them on
as appropriate and wait until they flower, if they ever do.

--
Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall, very mild, sheltered
from the West, but open to the North and East.

In article <311dogt440v90gk39lgillrn8ed8ran82c@4ax.com>,
Chris Hogg <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>If that's what it is.
>
>Some years ago I sowed some seeds which never seemed to germinate, so
>I pushed the seed tray to one side and got on with life. But finding
>the tray sometime later, I discovered that there had been some
>germination, and several monocots were appearing, all identical. After
>dying back last autumn, they appeared again this spring. They grow
>quite long, typically 60cm I would say. Initially just a single shoot,
>but towards the end of the summer I see that several small shoots have
>appeared alongside the original, suggesting it's suckering or similar.
>It looks very grassy but despite labeling the seed tray, the writing
>has long disappeared, I have long forgotten what they were and I have
>no idea now. Although I do sometimes get grass germinating in seed
>trays, these don't look like any of the ones I usually see. They all
>look the same and I doubt if I would have sown a grass, so I don't
>
>At this stage in their lives, the only possible feature that might
>identify them is the fact that the monocots have a cross-shaped
>cross-section, like a plus sign: + .

I very much doubt they are a grass, but can't help.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 06/11/2021 14:18, Chris Hogg wrote:
> If that's what it is.
>
> Some years ago I sowed some seeds which never seemed to germinate, so
> I pushed the seed tray to one side and got on with life. But finding
> the tray sometime later, I discovered that there had been some
> germination, and several monocots were appearing, all identical. After
> dying back last autumn, they appeared again this spring. They grow
> quite long, typically 60cm I would say. Initially just a single shoot,
> but towards the end of the summer I see that several small shoots have
> appeared alongside the original, suggesting it's suckering or similar.
> It looks very grassy but despite labeling the seed tray, the writing
> has long disappeared, I have long forgotten what they were and I have
> no idea now. Although I do sometimes get grass germinating in seed
> trays, these don't look like any of the ones I usually see. They all
> look the same and I doubt if I would have sown a grass, so I don't
> think they are a grass.
>
> At this stage in their lives, the only possible feature that might
> identify them is the fact that the monocots have a cross-shaped
> cross-section, like a plus sign: + .
>
> With that rather vague description, can anyone hazard a guess as to
> what they may possibly be? Otherwise I shall just have to pot them on
> as appropriate and wait until they flower, if they ever do.

It might be worth digging one up to see if there is a small bulb or corm
underneath. If so, then as you say, you'll have to wait until they
flower to see what they are.

According to the Wiki, with gladiolus "the leaf blades can be plane or
cruciform in cross section". Can you remember sowing gladiolus seeds?

--

Jeff

On Sat, 6 Nov 2021 22:18:50 +0000, Jeff Layman
<jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 06/11/2021 14:18, Chris Hogg wrote:
>> If that's what it is.
>> At this stage in their lives, the only possible feature that might
>> identify them is the fact that the monocots have a cross-shaped
>> cross-section, like a plus sign: + .
>>
>> With that rather vague description, can anyone hazard a guess as to
>> what they may possibly be? Otherwise I shall just have to pot them on
>> as appropriate and wait until they flower, if they ever do.
>
>It might be worth digging one up to see if there is a small bulb or corm
>underneath. If so, then as you say, you'll have to wait until they
>flower to see what they are.
>
>According to the Wiki, with gladiolus "the leaf blades can be plane or
>cruciform in cross section". Can you remember sowing gladiolus seeds?

Ah - 'cruciform' - that's the word I couldn't remember.

Thanks Jeff,

I don't remember planting any gladioli, and I doubt if I did. If I
want them I buy corms. But I did plant some Aristea major (aka A.
capitata) which I know didn't germinate and I was disappointed. Saw
them on Tresco many years ago and have always wanted one. A.ecklonii I
have - seeds itself around willingly, but never managed to find A.
major until I saw seeds on offer a year or two ago.

Do you think it could be A. major? I see that both aristea and
gladiolus are members of the Iridaceae so perhaps they have similar
leaf blades. I hope so!

--
Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall, very mild, sheltered
from the West, but open to the North and East.

On 07/11/2021 07:42, Chris Hogg wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Nov 2021 22:18:50 +0000, Jeff Layman
> <jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 06/11/2021 14:18, Chris Hogg wrote:
>>> If that's what it is.
>>> At this stage in their lives, the only possible feature that might
>>> identify them is the fact that the monocots have a cross-shaped
>>> cross-section, like a plus sign: + .
>>>
>>> With that rather vague description, can anyone hazard a guess as to
>>> what they may possibly be? Otherwise I shall just have to pot them on
>>> as appropriate and wait until they flower, if they ever do.
>>
>> It might be worth digging one up to see if there is a small bulb or corm
>> underneath. If so, then as you say, you'll have to wait until they
>> flower to see what they are.
>>
>> According to the Wiki, with gladiolus "the leaf blades can be plane or
>> cruciform in cross section". Can you remember sowing gladiolus seeds?
>
>
> Ah - 'cruciform' - that's the word I couldn't remember.
>
> Thanks Jeff,
>
> I don't remember planting any gladioli, and I doubt if I did. If I
> want them I buy corms. But I did plant some Aristea major (aka A.
> capitata) which I know didn't germinate and I was disappointed. Saw
> them on Tresco many years ago and have always wanted one. A.ecklonii I
> have - seeds itself around willingly, but never managed to find A.
> major until I saw seeds on offer a year or two ago.
>
> Do you think it could be A. major? I see that both aristea and
> gladiolus are members of the Iridaceae so perhaps they have similar
> leaf blades. I hope so!

Sorry, I don't know. I also grow /Aristea ecklonii/, but haven't tried
/A. major/. I did find this ref, but it's behind a paywall (as are other
similar ones):
<https://www.jstor.org/stable/43236881>
"The Leaf Structure of the Iridaceae, considered in Relation to the
Phyllode Theory"

I haven't checked, but is the leaf of /A. ecklonii/ cruciform in
cross-section?

--

Jeff

On 07/11/2021 09:14, Jeff Layman wrote:

> I haven't checked, but is the leaf of /A. ecklonii/ cruciform in
> cross-section?

I just cut a leaf across a few cm above soil level, and to me there's no
sign at all of a cruciform cross-section.

--

Jeff

On Sun, 7 Nov 2021 10:25:54 +0000, Jeff Layman
<jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 07/11/2021 09:14, Jeff Layman wrote:
>
>> I haven't checked, but is the leaf of /A. ecklonii/ cruciform in
>> cross-section?
>
>I just cut a leaf across a few cm above soil level, and to me there's no
>sign at all of a cruciform cross-section.

Nor in mine :-(

FWIW, I unpotted one of the little plants - they are bulbs; here are
three pics:-
The first shows the bulb and the initial shoot of this year, now dying
back. It's over 1 metre long - quite amazing for such a small bulb.
https://ibb.co/VNM6DC4

The second shows a close-up of the bulb itself, with shoots from one
or two tiny bulblets growing around it.
https://ibb.co/gyvMXgz

The third shows a section through one of the long leaves, slightly
distorted by the cutting process. As you can see, it's a complex
cruciform structure.
https://ibb.co/YhBqdm8

Thanks for your interest.

--
Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall, very mild, sheltered
from the West, but open to the North and East.

On Mon, 08 Nov 2021 10:22:13 +0000, Chris Hogg <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 7 Nov 2021 10:25:54 +0000, Jeff Layman
><jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On 07/11/2021 09:14, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>
>>> I haven't checked, but is the leaf of /A. ecklonii/ cruciform in
>>> cross-section?
>>
>>I just cut a leaf across a few cm above soil level, and to me there's no
>>sign at all of a cruciform cross-section.
>
>Nor in mine :-(
>
>FWIW, I unpotted one of the little plants - they are bulbs; here are
>three pics:-
>The first shows the bulb and the initial shoot of this year, now dying
>back. It's over 1 metre long - quite amazing for such a small bulb.
>https://ibb.co/VNM6DC4
>
>The second shows a close-up of the bulb itself, with shoots from one
>or two tiny bulblets growing around it.
>https://ibb.co/gyvMXgz
>
>The third shows a section through one of the long leaves, slightly
>distorted by the cutting process. As you can see, it's a complex
>cruciform structure.
>https://ibb.co/YhBqdm8
>
>Thanks for your interest.

Just to add, when repotting it, the outer brown husk peeled away from
the bulb, revealing an even smaller bulb inside. But as well as that,
there was one bulb stacked on another, just like many glads do, but
crocosmias also do it and I imagine a fair few other 'bulbs' do it as
well.

I guess I'll keep potting them on as appropriate, wait until they
flower and, like so many things in gardening, just have to be patient.

--
Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall, very mild, sheltered
from the West, but open to the North and East.

On 08/11/2021 14:07, Chris Hogg wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Nov 2021 10:22:13 +0000, Chris Hogg <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 7 Nov 2021 10:25:54 +0000, Jeff Layman
>> <jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 07/11/2021 09:14, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>>
>>>> I haven't checked, but is the leaf of /A. ecklonii/ cruciform in
>>>> cross-section?
>>>
>>> I just cut a leaf across a few cm above soil level, and to me there's no
>>> sign at all of a cruciform cross-section.
>>
>> Nor in mine :-(
>>
>> FWIW, I unpotted one of the little plants - they are bulbs; here are
>> three pics:-
>> The first shows the bulb and the initial shoot of this year, now dying
>> back. It's over 1 metre long - quite amazing for such a small bulb.
>> https://ibb.co/VNM6DC4
>>
>> The second shows a close-up of the bulb itself, with shoots from one
>> or two tiny bulblets growing around it.
>> https://ibb.co/gyvMXgz
>>
>> The third shows a section through one of the long leaves, slightly
>> distorted by the cutting process. As you can see, it's a complex
>> cruciform structure.
>> https://ibb.co/YhBqdm8
>>
>> Thanks for your interest.
>
> Just to add, when repotting it, the outer brown husk peeled away from
> the bulb, revealing an even smaller bulb inside. But as well as that,
> there was one bulb stacked on another, just like many glads do, but
> crocosmias also do it and I imagine a fair few other 'bulbs' do it as
> well.
>
> I guess I'll keep potting them on as appropriate, wait until they
> flower and, like so many things in gardening, just have to be patient.

I think so. It could be almost anything. I'm very wary, though, of bulbs
which produce offsets without even flowering. Some, even if they do
flower, such as muscari and some tulbaghia, are very invasive and if you
try to dig them up just break up into dozens of smaller bulbs! I'd
definitely keep the bulbs you are growing in pots until they've flowered
and can be identified.

--

Jeff

On Mon, 8 Nov 2021 18:20:58 +0000, Jeff Layman
<jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>It could be almost anything. I'm very wary, though, of bulbs
>which produce offsets without even flowering. Some, even if they do
>flower, such as muscari and some tulbaghia, are very invasive and if you
>try to dig them up just break up into dozens of smaller bulbs! I'd
>definitely keep the bulbs you are growing in pots until they've flowered
>and can be identified.

I was a bit concerned when I fist saw all the offset - so many and so
soon - which was why I thought it might be a grass. I could see it
spreading very quickly. I will certainly treat it with great caution.

--
Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall, very mild, sheltered
from the West, but open to the North and East.

On 08/11/2021 20:56, Chris Hogg wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Nov 2021 18:20:58 +0000, Jeff Layman
> <jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> It could be almost anything. I'm very wary, though, of bulbs
>> which produce offsets without even flowering. Some, even if they do
>> flower, such as muscari and some tulbaghia, are very invasive and if you
>> try to dig them up just break up into dozens of smaller bulbs! I'd
>> definitely keep the bulbs you are growing in pots until they've flowered
>> and can be identified.
>
> I was a bit concerned when I fist saw all the offset - so many and so
> soon - which was why I thought it might be a grass. I could see it
> spreading very quickly. I will certainly treat it with great caution.
>

What about Watsonia? some of them are pretty invasive

--
Charlie Pridham
Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk

On Tue, 9 Nov 2021 11:15:17 +0000, Charlie Pridham
<charlie@roselandhouse.co.uk> wrote:

>On 08/11/2021 20:56, Chris Hogg wrote:
>> On Mon, 8 Nov 2021 18:20:58 +0000, Jeff Layman
>> <jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> It could be almost anything. I'm very wary, though, of bulbs
>>> which produce offsets without even flowering. Some, even if they do
>>> flower, such as muscari and some tulbaghia, are very invasive and if you
>>> try to dig them up just break up into dozens of smaller bulbs! I'd
>>> definitely keep the bulbs you are growing in pots until they've flowered
>>> and can be identified.
>>
>> I was a bit concerned when I fist saw all the offset - so many and so
>> soon - which was why I thought it might be a grass. I could see it
>> spreading very quickly. I will certainly treat it with great caution.
>>
>
>What about Watsonia? some of them are pretty invasive

Some more hard Googling brings up Gladiolus tristis as a possibility.
Image here https://tinyurl.com/6sntmp5k It apparently has long very
narrow leaves with cruciform stems, and the flowers have a strong
perfume in the evenings. Several sites say it's invasive.

Seems to fit the bill, but only time will tell, when it flowers.

--
Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall, very mild, sheltered
from the West, but open to the North and East.