Better let ‘em run then!

<https://www.macrumors.com/2023/07/10/apple-releases-ios-16-5-1-macos-13-4-1-rsrs/>

--
Cheers, Alan

On 10 Jul 2023 at 19:11:30 BST, "Alan B"
<alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

> Better let ‘em run then!
>
> <https://www.macrumors.com/2023/07/10/apple-releases-ios-16-5-1-macos-13-4-1-rsrs/>

Hm. None for the Sonoma beta...

Cheers - Jaimie
--
Imagine there were no hypothetical situations.

Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
> On 10 Jul 2023 at 19:11:30 BST, "Alan B"
> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Better let ‘em run then!
>>
>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2023/07/10/apple-releases-ios-16-5-1-macos-13-4-1-rsrs/>
>
> Hm. None for the Sonoma beta...

The RSRs have been pulled apparently and will be revamped in due course.
Certain sites were not working correctly in Safari according to MacRumors
forum.

<https://www.macrumors.com/2023/07/10/apple-pulls-ios-16-5-1-macos-13-4-1-rsrs/>

--
Cheers, Alan

Am 11.07.23 um 07:09 schrieb Alan B:
> Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
>> On 10 Jul 2023 at 19:11:30 BST, "Alan B"
>> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Better let ‘em run then!
>>>
>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2023/07/10/apple-releases-ios-16-5-1-macos-13-4-1-rsrs/>
>>
>> Hm. None for the Sonoma beta...
>
> The RSRs have been pulled apparently and will be revamped in due course.
> Certain sites were not working correctly in Safari according to MacRumors
> forum.
>
> <https://www.macrumors.com/2023/07/10/apple-pulls-ios-16-5-1-macos-13-4-1-rsrs/>

Embarrassing!

According to reports on the MacRumors forums, Facebook, Instagram,
WhatsApp, Zoom, and other websites started giving a warning about not
being supported on the Safari browser following the Rapid Security
Response updates.

https://www.macrumors.com/2023/07/10/apple-pulls-ios-16-5-1-macos-13-4-1-rsrs/

Minimal testing can be expected before releasing.

--
Prudentia potentia est

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
> Am 11.07.23 um 07:09 schrieb Alan B:
>> Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
>>> On 10 Jul 2023 at 19:11:30 BST, "Alan B"
>>> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Better let ‘em run then!
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2023/07/10/apple-releases-ios-16-5-1-macos-13-4-1-rsrs/>
>>>
>>> Hm. None for the Sonoma beta...
>>
>> The RSRs have been pulled apparently and will be revamped in due course.
>> Certain sites were not working correctly in Safari according to MacRumors
>> forum.
>>
>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2023/07/10/apple-pulls-ios-16-5-1-macos-13-4-1-rsrs/>
>
> Embarrassing!
>
> According to reports on the MacRumors forums, Facebook, Instagram,
> WhatsApp, Zoom, and other websites started giving a warning about not
> being supported on the Safari browser following the Rapid Security
> Response updates.

These are sites I do not use. On macOS I’m using the Brave browser anyway.

> https://www.macrumors.com/2023/07/10/apple-pulls-ios-16-5-1-macos-13-4-1-rsrs/
>
> Minimal testing can be expected before releasing.

I can understand the possible urgency to fix a major problem but one would
hope that the most popular sites are checked out before an update is
released.

--
Cheers, Alan

Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>> Am 11.07.23 um 07:09 schrieb Alan B:
>>> Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
>>>> On 10 Jul 2023 at 19:11:30 BST, "Alan B"
>>>> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Better let ‘em run then!
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2023/07/10/apple-releases-ios-16-5-1-macos-13-4-1-rsrs/>
>>>>
>>>> Hm. None for the Sonoma beta...
>>>
>>> The RSRs have been pulled apparently and will be revamped in due course.
>>> Certain sites were not working correctly in Safari according to MacRumors
>>> forum.
>>>
>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2023/07/10/apple-pulls-ios-16-5-1-macos-13-4-1-rsrs/ " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.macrumors.com/2023/07/10/apple-pulls-ios-16-5-1-macos-13-4-1-rsrs/>
>>
>> Embarrassing!
>>
>> According to reports on the MacRumors forums, Facebook, Instagram,
>> WhatsApp, Zoom, and other websites started giving a warning about not
>> being supported on the Safari browser following the Rapid Security
>> Response updates.
>
> These are sites I do not use. On macOS I’m using the Brave browser anyway.
>
>> https://www.macrumors.com/2023/07/10/apple-pulls-ios-16-5-1-macos-13-4-1-rsrs/
>>
>> Minimal testing can be expected before releasing.
>
> I can understand the possible urgency to fix a major problem but one would
> hope that the most popular sites are checked out before an update is
> released.

I downloaded it yesterday, but now it won't verify for installation. Claims
I don't have internet access.

Am 11.07.23 um 08:33 schrieb Chris:
> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>> I can understand the possible urgency to fix a major problem but one would
>> hope that the most popular sites are checked out before an update is
>> released.
>
> I downloaded it yesterday, but now it won't verify for installation. Claims
> I don't have internet access.

I uninstalled the RSR on all 4 devices again.

--
Faber est suae quisque fortunae

On 11. Jul 2023 at 08:33:45 CEST, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

> I downloaded it yesterday, but now it won't verify for installation. Claims
> I don't have internet access.

It was pulled. I guess the message is because of that.

On 11 Jul 2023 at 06:59:25 BST, "Alan B"
<alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

>> According to reports on the MacRumors forums, Facebook, Instagram,
>> WhatsApp, Zoom, and other websites started giving a warning about not
>> being supported on the Safari browser following the Rapid Security
>> Response updates.

I can't possibly imagine why sites that have terrible privacy
implications might have issues with a security update.

Apropos nothing much, I see Threads is still illegal in the EU due to
GDPR and sundry other privacy violations. More of this sort of thing.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening.
- Alexander Woollcott

On 11 Jul 2023 at 10:37:29 BST, "Bernd Froehlich" <befr@eaglesoft.de> wrote:

> On 11. Jul 2023 at 08:33:45 CEST, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I downloaded it yesterday, but now it won't verify for installation. Claims
>> I don't have internet access.
>
> It was pulled. I guess the message is because of that.

Just turned on my Monterey system and was immediately presented with a Safari
update
Version 16.5.2 (17615.2.9.101.1, 17615). It seems this Webkit related update
covers
Big Sur too and would appear to be the equivalent of yesterday's RSR update
for Ventura etc. I'm
not sure whether this Safari update will also need replacing as I don't look
at the sites
mentioned earlier.

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213826>

--
Cheers, Alan

On 11 Jul 2023 at 12:10:27 BST, "Jaimie Vandenbergh"
<jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:

> On 11 Jul 2023 at 06:59:25 BST, "Alan B"
> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> According to reports on the MacRumors forums, Facebook, Instagram,
>>> WhatsApp, Zoom, and other websites started giving a warning about not
>>> being supported on the Safari browser following the Rapid Security
>>> Response updates.
>
> I can't possibly imagine why sites that have terrible privacy
> implications might have issues with a security update.
>
> Apropos nothing much, I see Threads is still illegal in the EU due to
> GDPR and sundry other privacy violations. More of this sort of thing.

A bit depressing to see John Gruber citing this as an example of unacceptable
nannying; "aren't we lucky we live in the USA" kind of thing.
--
TimH
pull tooth to reply by email

Am 11.07.23 um 14:10 schrieb TimH:
> On 11 Jul 2023 at 12:10:27 BST, "Jaimie Vandenbergh"
> <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
>
>> On 11 Jul 2023 at 06:59:25 BST, "Alan B"
>> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>> According to reports on the MacRumors forums, Facebook, Instagram,
>>>> WhatsApp, Zoom, and other websites started giving a warning about not
>>>> being supported on the Safari browser following the Rapid Security
>>>> Response updates.
>>
>> I can't possibly imagine why sites that have terrible privacy
>> implications might have issues with a security update.
>>
>> Apropos nothing much, I see Threads is still illegal in the EU due to
>> GDPR and sundry other privacy violations. More of this sort of thing.
>
> A bit depressing to see John Gruber citing this as an example of unacceptable
> nannying; "aren't we lucky we live in the USA" kind of thing.

We are *very happy* not living in the USA. I always expect the
government to protect the population from bastards like Zuckerberg and
others.

The French are even more consequent: They will kill Pooh Bears espionage
in France. Some call it "Tik Tok".

--
Prudentia potentia est

Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
> On 11 Jul 2023 at 06:59:25 BST, "Alan B"
> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> >> According to reports on the MacRumors forums, Facebook, Instagram,
> >> WhatsApp, Zoom, and other websites started giving a warning about not
> >> being supported on the Safari browser following the Rapid Security
> >> Response updates.
>
> I can't possibly imagine why sites that have terrible privacy
> implications might have issues with a security update.

Supposedly the Safari User-Agent string was changed to contain an '(a)' as
in '16.x.x (a)' instead of '16.x.x', and this broke UA parsing on some
sites.

Whether that's fingerprinting or just 'if UA = Internet Explorer 6 then...
else ...' logic I couldn't say.

Theo

On 11 Jul 2023 at 13:10:57 BST, "TimH" <thnews@poboxmolar.com.invalid>
wrote:

> On 11 Jul 2023 at 12:10:27 BST, "Jaimie Vandenbergh"
> <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
>
>> On 11 Jul 2023 at 06:59:25 BST, "Alan B"
>> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>> According to reports on the MacRumors forums, Facebook, Instagram,
>>>> WhatsApp, Zoom, and other websites started giving a warning about not
>>>> being supported on the Safari browser following the Rapid Security
>>>> Response updates.
>>
>> I can't possibly imagine why sites that have terrible privacy
>> implications might have issues with a security update.
>>
>> Apropos nothing much, I see Threads is still illegal in the EU due to
>> GDPR and sundry other privacy violations. More of this sort of thing.
>
> A bit depressing to see John Gruber citing this as an example of unacceptable
> nannying; "aren't we lucky we live in the USA" kind of thing.

The entire 400+ messages replying on Mastodon are all "wtf are you on".

It's odd, he's usually right about stuff - and he's always been very pro
privacy.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
Sent from my Amiga 1000

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
>> On 11 Jul 2023 at 06:59:25 BST, "Alan B"
>> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>> According to reports on the MacRumors forums, Facebook, Instagram,
>>>> WhatsApp, Zoom, and other websites started giving a warning about not
>>>> being supported on the Safari browser following the Rapid Security
>>>> Response updates.
>>
>> I can't possibly imagine why sites that have terrible privacy
>> implications might have issues with a security update.
>
> Supposedly the Safari User-Agent string was changed to contain an '(a)' as
> in '16.x.x (a)' instead of '16.x.x', and this broke UA parsing on some
> sites.
>
> Whether that's fingerprinting or just 'if UA = Internet Explorer 6 then...
> else ...' logic I couldn't say.

If that's the case not sure why this is Apple's fault. UA checking is a
sign of poor practice. I thought this died 20 years ago.

On 11 Jul 2023 at 19:02:35 BST, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
>>> On 11 Jul 2023 at 06:59:25 BST, "Alan B"
>>> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> According to reports on the MacRumors forums, Facebook, Instagram,
>>>>> WhatsApp, Zoom, and other websites started giving a warning about not
>>>>> being supported on the Safari browser following the Rapid Security
>>>>> Response updates.
>>>
>>> I can't possibly imagine why sites that have terrible privacy
>>> implications might have issues with a security update.
>>
>> Supposedly the Safari User-Agent string was changed to contain an '(a)' as
>> in '16.x.x (a)' instead of '16.x.x', and this broke UA parsing on some
>> sites.
>>
>> Whether that's fingerprinting or just 'if UA = Internet Explorer 6 then...
>> else ...' logic I couldn't say.
>
> If that's the case not sure why this is Apple's fault. UA checking is a
> sign of poor practice. I thought this died 20 years ago.

Obligatory https://xkcd.com/1172/

Cheers - Jaimie

--
I like nonsense. It wakes up the brain cells. -- Dr. Seuss

Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
> On 11 Jul 2023 at 19:02:35 BST, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>> Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
>>>> On 11 Jul 2023 at 06:59:25 BST, "Alan B"
>>>> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> According to reports on the MacRumors forums, Facebook, Instagram,
>>>>>> WhatsApp, Zoom, and other websites started giving a warning about not
>>>>>> being supported on the Safari browser following the Rapid Security
>>>>>> Response updates.
>>>>
>>>> I can't possibly imagine why sites that have terrible privacy
>>>> implications might have issues with a security update.
>>>
>>> Supposedly the Safari User-Agent string was changed to contain an '(a)' as
>>> in '16.x.x (a)' instead of '16.x.x', and this broke UA parsing on some
>>> sites.
>>>
>>> Whether that's fingerprinting or just 'if UA = Internet Explorer 6 then...
>>> else ...' logic I couldn't say.
>>
>> If that's the case not sure why this is Apple's fault. UA checking is a
>> sign of poor practice. I thought this died 20 years ago.
>
> Obligatory https://xkcd.com/1172/

LOL. I do love me an xkcd.

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> If that's the case not sure why this is Apple's fault. UA checking is a
> sign of poor practice. I thought this died 20 years ago.

It still happens, eg if I go to https://en.wikipedia.org I'll get redirected
to https://en.m.wikipedia.org if I'm on mobile. That's an actual different
website, rather than the same pages with responsive CSS.

I think the problem here is that the UA is:

Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 16_5_2 like Mac OS X)
AppleWebKit/605.1.15 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/16.5.2 Mobile/15E148
Safari/605.1.15

and making that 'Version/16.5.2 (a)' just added another set of brackets into
the mix. I'd guess somebody's regex needed updating.

Curious that it happened across different companies, but maybe they share a
common library in there somewhere.

Although I thought Safari had phased out the version numbers to avoid
fingerprinting, and on MacOS now just claims every client runs Catalina with
the same version.

Theo

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> > If that's the case not sure why this is Apple's fault. UA checking is a
> > sign of poor practice. I thought this died 20 years ago.
>
> It still happens, eg if I go to https://en.wikipedia.org I'll get redirected
> to https://en.m.wikipedia.org if I'm on mobile. That's an actual different
> website, rather than the same pages with responsive CSS.
>
> I think the problem here is that the UA is:
>
> Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 16_5_2 like Mac OS X)
> AppleWebKit/605.1.15 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/16.5.2 Mobile/15E148
> Safari/605.1.15
>
> and making that 'Version/16.5.2 (a)' just added another set of brackets into
> the mix. I'd guess somebody's regex needed updating.

It turns out there is a standard for the User-Agent field and Apple broke
it (it seems):
https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9110.html#name-user-agent

Theo

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> If that's the case not sure why this is Apple's fault. UA checking is a
>>> sign of poor practice. I thought this died 20 years ago.
>>
>> It still happens, eg if I go to https://en.wikipedia.org I'll get redirected
>> to https://en.m.wikipedia.org if I'm on mobile. That's an actual different
>> website, rather than the same pages with responsive CSS.
>>
>> I think the problem here is that the UA is:
>>
>> Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 16_5_2 like Mac OS X)
>> AppleWebKit/605.1.15 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/16.5.2 Mobile/15E148
>> Safari/605.1.15
>>
>> and making that 'Version/16.5.2 (a)' just added another set of brackets into
>> the mix. I'd guess somebody's regex needed updating.
>
> It turns out there is a standard for the User-Agent field and Apple broke
> it (it seems):
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9110.html#name-user-agent

Apple has formally acknowledged the issue but no sign of the (b) release
(on my devices) yet.

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213827>

--
Cheers, Alan

Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> If that's the case not sure why this is Apple's fault. UA checking is a
>>>> sign of poor practice. I thought this died 20 years ago.
>>>
>>> It still happens, eg if I go to https://en.wikipedia.org I'll get redirected
>>> to https://en.m.wikipedia.org if I'm on mobile. That's an actual different
>>> website, rather than the same pages with responsive CSS.
>>>
>>> I think the problem here is that the UA is:
>>>
>>> Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 16_5_2 like Mac OS X)
>>> AppleWebKit/605.1.15 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/16.5.2 Mobile/15E148
>>> Safari/605.1.15
>>>
>>> and making that 'Version/16.5.2 (a)' just added another set of brackets into
>>> the mix. I'd guess somebody's regex needed updating.
>>
>> It turns out there is a standard for the User-Agent field and Apple broke
>> it (it seems):
>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9110.html#name-user-agent
>
> Apple has formally acknowledged the issue but no sign of the (b) release
> (on my devices) yet.
>
> <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213827>

Updated RSRs now available.

<https://www.macrumors.com/2023/07/10/apple-releases-ios-16-5-1-macos-13-4-1-rsrs/>

--
Cheers, Alan

On 12 Jul 2023 at 18:36:47 BST, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
wrote:

> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> If that's the case not sure why this is Apple's fault. UA checking is a
>>>>> sign of poor practice. I thought this died 20 years ago.
>>>>
>>>> It still happens, eg if I go to https://en.wikipedia.org I'll get redirected
>>>> to https://en.m.wikipedia.org if I'm on mobile. That's an actual different
>>>> website, rather than the same pages with responsive CSS.
>>>>
>>>> I think the problem here is that the UA is:
>>>>
>>>> Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 16_5_2 like Mac OS X)
>>>> AppleWebKit/605.1.15 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/16.5.2 Mobile/15E148
>>>> Safari/605.1.15
>>>>
>>>> and making that 'Version/16.5.2 (a)' just added another set of brackets into
>>>> the mix. I'd guess somebody's regex needed updating.
>>>
>>> It turns out there is a standard for the User-Agent field and Apple broke
>>> it (it seems):
>>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9110.html#name-user-agent
>>
>> Apple has formally acknowledged the issue but no sign of the (b) release
>> (on my devices) yet.
>>
>> <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213827>
>
> Updated RSRs now available.
>
> <https://www.macrumors.com/2023/07/10/apple-releases-ios-16-5-1-macos-13-4-1-rsrs/>

Facebo0k and Messenger now OK here.

John

--
Classic computing: Computers do what you tell them to do, not what you want them to do.
Modern computing: Computers do what they want to do, no matter what you tell them to do.

On 13/07/2023 09:33, John Hill wrote:
[....]
> Facebo0k and Messenger now OK here.
>
> John

Here too, John! :-D

https://bit.ly/46NlTJn

--
David

On 2023-07-11, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
>> On 11 Jul 2023 at 06:59:25 BST, "Alan B"
>> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >> According to reports on the MacRumors forums, Facebook, Instagram,
>> >> WhatsApp, Zoom, and other websites started giving a warning about not
>> >> being supported on the Safari browser following the Rapid Security
>> >> Response updates.
>>
>> I can't possibly imagine why sites that have terrible privacy
>> implications might have issues with a security update.
>
> Supposedly the Safari User-Agent string was changed to contain an '(a)' as
> in '16.x.x (a)' instead of '16.x.x', and this broke UA parsing on some
> sites.

Just checked again, having applied the (c) update a couple of days ago, and no bracketed
option is available from the UA menu using Safari 16.5.2 on Ventura. Presumably this is
the UA automatically chosen now? I don't think there's a UA menu available for Safari on
iOS / iPadOS?

--
Cheers, Alan