“The battery calibration tool for your MacBook” <https://binarytricks.com>

--
Cheers … Mark

Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
> “The battery calibration tool for your MacBook” <https://binarytricks.com>

Never heard of it before. Have you tried it out or just asking?

--
Cheers, Alan

Am 04.08.23 um 10:24 schrieb Mark:
> “The battery calibration tool for your MacBook” <https://binarytricks.com>

What do you expect from such a software?
Macs calibrate themselves.

--
Alea iacta est

Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
>> “The battery calibration tool for your MacBook” <https://binarytricks.com>
>
> Never heard of it before. Have you tried it out or just asking?
>

Just asking. I’ve got a couple of old batteries here so might give it a
try.

--
Cheers … Mark

Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
> “The battery calibration tool for your MacBook” <https://binarytricks.com>

Is this just something that runs the battery down to zero?
The 'calibration' of the battery management system happens automatically
when you do that.

In other words:

int main(void)
{ prevent_mac_from_sleeping();

// burn CPU
int i=0;
while (1) {
i++;
}
}

Doing this unnecessarily will add extra cycles to your battery for no good
reason. While it might make sense to do it for a Mac that's plugged in all
the time to exercise the battery, the tool won't make the laptop ignore the
AC adapter and discharge the battery when plugged in. I suppose there is a
bit of value in reminding you to do it, ie basically being an alarm clock.

It sounds a bit like the "optimiser" and "cleaner" tools that are solving
problems that don't exist for most people.

No experience, though.

Theo

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
>> “The battery calibration tool for your MacBook” <https://binarytricks.com>
>
> Is this just something that runs the battery down to zero?
> The 'calibration' of the battery management system happens automatically
> when you do that.
>
> In other words:
>
> int main(void)
> {
> prevent_mac_from_sleeping();
>
> // burn CPU
> int i=0;
> while (1) {
> i++;
> }
> }
>
> Doing this unnecessarily will add extra cycles to your battery for no good
> reason. While it might make sense to do it for a Mac that's plugged in all
> the time to exercise the battery, the tool won't make the laptop ignore the
> AC adapter and discharge the battery when plugged in. I suppose there is a
> bit of value in reminding you to do it, ie basically being an alarm clock.
>
> It sounds a bit like the "optimiser" and "cleaner" tools that are solving
> problems that don't exist for most people.
>
> No experience, though.

I occasionally just let my laptops run down to zero by natural means to
enable calibration to take place. Could forcing this by using an infinite
loop routine cause issues such as overheating?

--
Cheers, Alan

Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> I occasionally just let my laptops run down to zero by natural means to
> enable calibration to take place. Could forcing this by using an infinite
> loop routine cause issues such as overheating?

I wouldn't have thought so: the system will throttle so as never to put it
into an overheated state. Basically every computer for the last couple of
decades can't run at full tilt continuously so throttles to keep itself
within its thermal envelope.

It might be that taking a heavy current from the battery wears it faster,
although perhaps the argument goes is that is better to find the true
'calibration' (ie the amount of battery you can rely upon in a heavy load
situation) than only taking sips.

Theo

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>> I occasionally just let my laptops run down to zero by natural means to
>> enable calibration to take place. Could forcing this by using an infinite
>> loop routine cause issues such as overheating?
>
> I wouldn't have thought so: the system will throttle so as never to put it
> into an overheated state. Basically every computer for the last couple of
> decades can't run at full tilt continuously so throttles to keep itself
> within its thermal envelope.

Thicko me hadn’t realised that :)

> It might be that taking a heavy current from the battery wears it faster,
> although perhaps the argument goes is that is better to find the true
> 'calibration' (ie the amount of battery you can rely upon in a heavy load
> situation) than only taking sips.

Indeed. My “sip” method often takes an irritating length of time.

--
Cheers, Alan

Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>> I occasionally just let my laptops run down to zero by natural means to
>>> enable calibration to take place. Could forcing this by using an infinite
>>> loop routine cause issues such as overheating?
>>
>> I wouldn't have thought so: the system will throttle so as never to put it
>> into an overheated state. Basically every computer for the last couple of
>> decades can't run at full tilt continuously so throttles to keep itself
>> within its thermal envelope.
>
> Thicko me hadn’t realised that :)
>
>> It might be that taking a heavy current from the battery wears it faster,
>> although perhaps the argument goes is that is better to find the true
>> 'calibration' (ie the amount of battery you can rely upon in a heavy load
>> situation) than only taking sips.
>
> Indeed. My “sip” method often takes an irritating length of time.

I did a sequence on the MBP I recently acquired, and just left a movie
playing on repeat loop.

Otherwise I tend not to bother with this kind of thing anymore.

--
Andy H

Am 04.08.23 um 13:02 schrieb Alan B:
> I occasionally just let my laptops run down to zero by natural means to
> enable calibration to take place. Could forcing this by using an infinite
> loop routine cause issues such as overheating?

Not very clever. Modern Li-Ion-Accumulators age most when they are
drained extremely low. Calibration takes place at 100% and not at 0%.

--
Manus manum lavat

Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> > Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> "The battery calibration tool for your MacBook" <https://binarytricks.com>
> >
> > Is this just something that runs the battery down to zero?
> > The 'calibration' of the battery management system happens automatically
> > when you do that.
> >
> > In other words:
> >
> > int main(void)
> > {
> > prevent_mac_from_sleeping();
> >
> > // burn CPU
> > int i=0;
> > while (1) {
> > i++;
> > }
> > }
> >
> > Doing this unnecessarily will add extra cycles to your battery for no good
> > reason. While it might make sense to do it for a Mac that's plugged in all
> > the time to exercise the battery, the tool won't make the laptop ignore the
> > AC adapter and discharge the battery when plugged in. I suppose there is a
> > bit of value in reminding you to do it, ie basically being an alarm clock.
> >
> > It sounds a bit like the "optimiser" and "cleaner" tools that are solving
> > problems that don't exist for most people.
> >
> > No experience, though.
>
> I occasionally just let my laptops run down to zero by natural means to
> enable calibration to take place. Could forcing this by using an infinite
> loop routine cause issues such as overheating?

That is a rather dumb thing to do. It is bad for your battery.
The fable that you should completely drain the battery
every now and then dates to the early NiCad batteries.
(some of which suffered from 'memory effect')
It was already false for later generations
of NiCad and NiH batteries.
(like the ever ready kind that doesn't self-discharge)

Jan

J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>> Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> "The battery calibration tool for your MacBook" <https://binarytricks.com>
>>>
>>> Is this just something that runs the battery down to zero?
>>> The 'calibration' of the battery management system happens automatically
>>> when you do that.
>>>
>>> In other words:
>>>
>>> int main(void)
>>> {
>>> prevent_mac_from_sleeping();
>>>
>>> // burn CPU
>>> int i=0;
>>> while (1) {
>>> i++;
>>> }
>>> }
>>>
>>> Doing this unnecessarily will add extra cycles to your battery for no good
>>> reason. While it might make sense to do it for a Mac that's plugged in all
>>> the time to exercise the battery, the tool won't make the laptop ignore the
>>> AC adapter and discharge the battery when plugged in. I suppose there is a
>>> bit of value in reminding you to do it, ie basically being an alarm clock.
>>>
>>> It sounds a bit like the "optimiser" and "cleaner" tools that are solving
>>> problems that don't exist for most people.
>>>
>>> No experience, though.
>>
>> I occasionally just let my laptops run down to zero by natural means to
>> enable calibration to take place. Could forcing this by using an infinite
>> loop routine cause issues such as overheating?
>
> That is a rather dumb thing to do. It is bad for your battery.
> The fable that you should completely drain the battery
> every now and then dates to the early NiCad batteries.
> (some of which suffered from 'memory effect')
> It was already false for later generations
> of NiCad and NiH batteries.
> (like the ever ready kind that doesn't self-discharge)

The trouble is many 3rd party sites still suggest this. But, yes, I’ve just
found the latest advise from the horse’s mouth and it no longer suggests
that approach.

<https://www.apple.com/batteries/maximizing-performance/>

--
Cheers, Alan

Am 04.08.23 um 22:42 schrieb Alan B:
> J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
>> That is a rather dumb thing to do. It is bad for your battery.
>> The fable that you should completely drain the battery
>> every now and then dates to the early NiCad batteries.
>> (some of which suffered from 'memory effect')
>> It was already false for later generations
>> of NiCad and NiH batteries.
>> (like the ever ready kind that doesn't self-discharge)
>
> The trouble is many 3rd party sites still suggest this. But, yes, I’ve just
> found the latest advise from the horse’s mouth and it no longer suggests
> that approach.
>
> <https://www.apple.com/batteries/maximizing-performance/>

Many of the recommended practices are related to the three main
variables that impact battery health: temperature, state of charge and
current. Here are some general guidelines from the U-M researchers to
maximize lithium-ion battery lifetime, along with a few specific
recommendations from manufacturers:

Avoid temperature extremes, both high and low, when using or storing
lithium-ion batteries. Elevated temperatures can accelerate degradation
of almost every battery component and can lead to significant safety
risks, including fire or explosion. If a laptop or cellphone is
noticeably hot while it's charging, unplug it. Minimize exposure to low
temperatures, especially when charging.
For electric vehicles, nearly all manufacturers include warnings
about high temperatures in their owner manuals. Some of them advise
parking in the shade and keeping the vehicle plugged in during hot
weather, thereby allowing the battery cooling system to run as needed.
Plugging in the vehicle is also recommended in cold weather, so the
battery heating system can run on grid power.
Minimize the amount of time the battery spends at either 100% or 0%
charge. Both extremely high and low "states of charge" stress batteries.
Consider using a partial charge that restores the battery to 80% SoC,
instead of 100%. If that's not possible, then unplug the device as soon
as it reaches 100%.

Samsung and LG suggest that their phones should be recharged when they
reach a 20% state of charge. Nokia and Sony mention potential damage to
their phones if the device is left charging after reaching 100%.

In most laptops, an internal battery management system will cease
charging once the device has reached 100% state of charge, and it will
not resume charging until the laptop has reached 95% SoC. Even so, many
laptop manufacturers caution against leaving the computer plugged in
after it has completed charging.

https://seas.umich.edu/news/tips-extending-lifetime-lithium-ion-batteries

--
Alea iacta est