I am about to move and my 'phone/broadband was transferred to the new
house this morning ('phone works but no DSL yet).

The wall box has only one RJ45 socket, nothing for the 'phone so the
engineer fitted a "filter" - what I would call a splitter.

This seems a backwards step from the NTE5?

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK,
The true meaning of life is to plant trees under whose shade you do not
expect to sit.

Jeff Gaines <jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I am about to move and my 'phone/broadband was transferred to the new
> house this morning ('phone works but no DSL yet).
>
> The wall box has only one RJ45 socket, nothing for the 'phone so the
> engineer fitted a "filter" - what I would call a splitter.

Do you mean an RJ11 (American phone) socket, not an RJ45 (ethernet)?
Is it an NTE, or just a plain RJ11 connected to the outside wires?
The latter is somewhat surprising given there's some surge protection (and a
ring capacitor) in a typical master socket.

Or you mean you have an NTE but with a 'DSL only' faceplate, rather than a
twin-socket DSL+phone faceplate (or a phone-only one)?

> This seems a backwards step from the NTE5?

By 2025 PSTN voice will be turned off, so you'll have no need for a phone
socket anyway. In the meantime you could swap the NTE faceplate for one of
your choice.

Some ISPs are already switching to VOIP and disabling PSTN voice. If you're
going to use the phone socket extensions you might want to look at voice
re-injection, which needs a different faceplate on the NTE.

(or rewire the extensions differently, given the place is empty)

Theo

Theo wrote:

> Jeff Gaines <jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> I am about to move and my 'phone/broadband was transferred to the new
>> house this morning ('phone works but no DSL yet).
>>
>> The wall box has only one RJ45 socket, nothing for the 'phone so the
>> engineer fitted a "filter" - what I would call a splitter.
>
> Do you mean an RJ11 (American phone) socket, not an RJ45 (ethernet)?

ADSL/VDSL sockets are actually RJ45 connectors (aka 8P8C) not RJ11

> Is it an NTE, or just a plain RJ11 connected to the outside wires?
> The latter is somewhat surprising given there's some surge protection (and a
> ring capacitor) in a typical master socket.

> Or you mean you have an NTE but with a 'DSL only' faceplate, rather than a
> twin-socket DSL+phone faceplate (or a phone-only one)?

Never seen a DSL-only faceplate without phone socket, didn't think that would
exist until POTS turn off arrived, what service have you ordered Jeff? Are you
expecting a new router from your ISP?

>> This seems a backwards step from the NTE5?
>
> By 2025 PSTN voice will be turned off, so you'll have no need for a phone
> socket anyway. In the meantime you could swap the NTE faceplate for one of
> your choice.
>
> Some ISPs are already switching to VOIP and disabling PSTN voice. If you're
> going to use the phone socket extensions you might want to look at voice
> re-injection, which needs a different faceplate on the NTE.
>
> (or rewire the extensions differently, given the place is empty)
>
> Theo

Am Dienstag, 04. Januar 2022, um 17:57:35 Uhr schrieb Andy Burns:

> Theo wrote:
>
> > Jeff Gaines <jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> I am about to move and my 'phone/broadband was transferred to the
> >> new house this morning ('phone works but no DSL yet).
> >>
> >> The wall box has only one RJ45 socket, nothing for the 'phone so
> >> the engineer fitted a "filter" - what I would call a splitter.
> >
> > Do you mean an RJ11 (American phone) socket, not an RJ45
> > (ethernet)?
>
> ADSL/VDSL sockets are actually RJ45 connectors (aka 8P8C) not RJ11

ADSl/VDSL can also be used with RJ11-plugs, this is common in some
situations.

> Never seen a DSL-only faceplate without phone socket, didn't think
> that would exist until POTS turn off arrived, what service have you
> ordered Jeff? Are you expecting a new router from your ISP?

Maybe they only provide a RJ45 socket for new installations. It need to
be checked what cable is connected to that socket.

I know that in Germany some years ago VDSL was provided altogether with
POTS, so a splitter was needed, but I don't think that providers in the
UK will provide that for new installations.

Marco Moock wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> ADSL/VDSL sockets are actually RJ45 connectors (aka 8P8C) not RJ11
>
> ADSl/VDSL can also be used with RJ11-plugs, this is common in some
> situations.

Yes xDSL plugs are RJ11, but BT xDSL *sockets* are actually RJ45-width, if
you're not in the UK, I wouldn't expect you to know that ...

On 04/01/2022 in message <xn0nch2s67gw3t3009@news.individual.net> Jeff
Gaines wrote:

>
>I am about to move and my 'phone/broadband was transferred to the new
>house this morning ('phone works but no DSL yet).
>
>The wall box has only one RJ45 socket, nothing for the 'phone so the
>engineer fitted a "filter" - what I would call a splitter.
>
>This seems a backwards step from the NTE5?

Just to fill the gaps the service I have ordered in unlimited fibre
including 'phone line rental from Plusnet and the box that has been fitted
is an Openreach Master Socket 5C.

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
I've been through the desert on a horse with no name.
It was a right bugger to get him back when he ran off.

Jeff Gaines wrote:

> Just to fill the gaps the service I have ordered in unlimited fibre including
> 'phone line rental from Plusnet and the box that has been fitted is an Openreach
> Master Socket 5C.

So what you should have on the front is a normal BT 631A socket (actually that's
probably only the name of the plug) not an RJ45.

as seen on the left

<https://www.exbtengineers.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Telephone-Master-Socket-1080x611.jpg>

What you're missing is a service specific faceplate, as shown on the right.

On 04/01/2022 in message <j3jt4aFn5aU1@mid.individual.net> Andy Burns wrote:

>Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
>>Just to fill the gaps the service I have ordered in unlimited fibre
>>including 'phone line rental from Plusnet and the box that has been
>>fitted is an Openreach Master Socket 5C.
>
>So what you should have on the front is a normal BT 631A socket (actually
>that's probably only the name of the plug) not an RJ45.
>
>as seen on the left
>
><https://www.exbtengineers.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Telephone-Master-Socket-1080x611.jpg>
>
>What you're missing is a service specific faceplate, as shown on the right.
>
>

Should I have been supplied with one or is that down to me?

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day.
Tomorrow, isn't looking good either.

Jeff Gaines wrote:

> Should I have been supplied with one or is that down to me?

You'd have hoped that an order to "walk" a phone line with FTTC would include a
faceplate, but a splitter ought to work just as well, if more prone to damage,
I've always managed to acquire one when needed

On 04/01/2022 in message <j3juoiFu3mU1@mid.individual.net> Andy Burns wrote:

>Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
>>Should I have been supplied with one or is that down to me?
>
>You'd have hoped that an order to "walk" a phone line with FTTC would
>include a faceplate, but a splitter ought to work just as well, if more
>prone to damage, I've always managed to acquire one when needed

OK, thanks Andy :-)

I'll add it to my ticket, still no DSL this morning....

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
That's an amazing invention but who would ever want to use one of them?
(President Hayes speaking to Alexander Graham Bell on the invention of the
telephone)

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Marco Moock wrote:
>
> > Andy Burns wrote:
> >
> >> ADSL/VDSL sockets are actually RJ45 connectors (aka 8P8C) not RJ11
> >
> > ADSl/VDSL can also be used with RJ11-plugs, this is common in some
> > situations.
>
> Yes xDSL plugs are RJ11, but BT xDSL *sockets* are actually RJ45-width, if
> you're not in the UK, I wouldn't expect you to know that ...

Interesting, can't say I've noticed. Is there any reason why they did that?
(I think all the splitters etc have RJ11 sockets on them, so it's only the
NTE that has an RJ45 socket)

Theo
who the other day was feeling around the back of the router and managed to
plug the VDSL RJ11 into an ethernet RJ45 port. Luckily nothing was fried...

On 04/01/2022 in message <xn0nch2s67gw3t3009@news.individual.net> Jeff
Gaines wrote:

>The wall box has only one RJ45 socket, nothing for the 'phone so the
>engineer fitted a "filter" - what I would call a splitter.

Sorry, a correction, I have tried disconnecting/connecting and the socket
is a standard 'phone socket NOT an RJ45, still only one though...

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
Remember, the Flat Earth Society has members all around the globe.

Jeff Gaines <jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 04/01/2022 in message <xn0nch2s67gw3t3009@news.individual.net> Jeff
> Gaines wrote:
>
> >The wall box has only one RJ45 socket, nothing for the 'phone so the
> >engineer fitted a "filter" - what I would call a splitter.
>
> Sorry, a correction, I have tried disconnecting/connecting and the socket
> is a standard 'phone socket NOT an RJ45, still only one though...

In which case that's just a standard NTE5 I think, as fitted to every home
before DSL? You can buy the VDSL faceplate separately and swap it yourself
if you don't like the splitter, eg:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185016111525

Theo

On 06/01/2022 in message <ABe*g3BDy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> Theo wrote:

>>Sorry, a correction, I have tried disconnecting/connecting and the socket
>>is a standard 'phone socket NOT an RJ45, still only one though...
>
>In which case that's just a standard NTE5 I think, as fitted to every home
>before DSL? You can buy the VDSL faceplate separately and swap it yourself
>if you don't like the splitter, eg:
>
>https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185016111525

It gets better, Plusnet have now told me: "Your order for house move for
phone is completed, we have tried placing the fibre broad band order
however the same is not available in the exchange for now. if you are fine
with the copper broad band services please let us know ."

Wow, they happily took the order and now say they can't provide it!

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
It may be that your sole purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

Jeff Gaines <jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> It gets better, Plusnet have now told me: "Your order for house move for
> phone is completed, we have tried placing the fibre broad band order
> however the same is not available in the exchange for now. if you are fine
> with the copper broad band services please let us know ."
>
> Wow, they happily took the order and now say they can't provide it!

Hmm, that's a puzzler. So they're saying they can provide ADSL but not VDSL
('fibre broadband' in ISP marketing, as opposed to FTTP which is 'full
fibre')?

I wonder if there's a lack of line plant somewhere? That is likely to be
problematic if Openreach can't provide, since neither can any ISP that use
them.

What does:
https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL
say? Any VDSL or FTTP offerings?

Are there any alternative providers available to you?
I'm not sure how to check all the FTTP altnets, beyond this list:
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/04/summary-of-full-fibre-build-progress-across-uk-broadband-isps.html

Theo

On 06/01/2022 in message <ABe*uTDDy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> Theo wrote:

>>Wow, they happily took the order and now say they can't provide it!
>
>Hmm, that's a puzzler. So they're saying they can provide ADSL but not
>VDSL
>('fibre broadband' in ISP marketing, as opposed to FTTP which is 'full
>fibre')?

I think that's right,I can get copper broadband whatever that is called
nowadays!

>I wonder if there's a lack of line plant somewhere? That is likely to be
>problematic if Openreach can't provide, since neither can any ISP that use
>them.
>
>What does:
>https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL
>say? Any VDSL or FTTP offerings?

Not very much, I am on cabinet 11 but it doesn't list what is available.

>Are there any alternative providers available to you?

The Fritz checker says several are available, I followed the Vodaphone one
through to the point of placing an order and it offered FTTC, not very
quick but it is the back of beyond!

>I'm not sure how to check all the FTTP altnets, beyond this list:
>https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/04/summary-of-full-fibre-build-progress-across-uk-broadband-isps.html

I'm not after FTTP but I use a Roku box so was expecting FTTC.

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
I've been through the desert on a horse with no name.
It was a right bugger to get him back when he ran off.

On 06/01/2022 22:47, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 06/01/2022 in message <ABe*uTDDy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> Theo
> wrote:
>
>>> Wow, they happily took the order and now say they can't provide it!
>>
>> Hmm, that's a puzzler.  So they're saying they can provide ADSL but
>> not VDSL
>> ('fibre broadband' in ISP marketing, as opposed to FTTP which is 'full
>> fibre')?
>
> I think that's right,I can get copper broadband whatever that is called
> nowadays!
>
>> I wonder if there's a lack of line plant somewhere?  That is likely to be
>> problematic if Openreach can't provide, since neither can any ISP that
>> use
>> them.
>>
>> What does:
>> https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL
>> say?  Any VDSL or FTTP offerings?
>
> Not very much, I am on cabinet 11 but it doesn't list what is available.
>
>
>> Are there any alternative providers available to you?
>
> The Fritz checker says several are available, I followed the Vodaphone
> one through to the point of placing an order and it offered FTTC, not
> very quick but it is the back of beyond!
>
>
>> I'm not sure how to check all the FTTP altnets, beyond this list:
>> https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/04/summary-of-full-fibre-build-progress-across-uk-broadband-isps.html
>>
>
> I'm not after FTTP but I use a Roku box so was expecting FTTC.
>

Have you considered a 4g Router? You can get data sims from EE, O2,
Three or Vodafone?

In my area the fastest was EE at nearly 80 MB/s and the best value deals
seem to be Three weith an unlimited data SIm for 20 quid a momth.

It does of course rely on you living in a good reception area, there are
coverage maps available online for all 4 networks.

You may also find that installing an external aerial and connecting that
to teh router will give better results.

On 07/01/2022 in message <sr8rbf$1jo0$1@gioia.aioe.org> SH wrote:

>Have you considered a 4g Router? You can get data sims from EE, O2, Three
>or Vodafone?
>
>In my area the fastest was EE at nearly 80 MB/s and the best value deals
>seem to be Three weith an unlimited data SIm for 20 quid a momth.
>
>It does of course rely on you living in a good reception area, there are
>coverage maps available online for all 4 networks.
>
>You may also find that installing an external aerial and connecting that
>to teh router will give better results.

That's a good point, I tethered my mobile while at the new place (iD which
I think uses EE) and was surprised at how good the connection was, I get
unlimited calls, unlimited texts and 16 GB data a month for £8, worth
thinking about.

Not sure what connecting an external aerial to the router would do?

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
All things being equal, fat people use more soap

On 07/01/2022 13:49, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 07/01/2022 in message <sr8rbf$1jo0$1@gioia.aioe.org> SH wrote:
>
>> Have you considered a 4g Router? You can get data sims from EE, O2,
>> Three or Vodafone?
>>
>> In my area the fastest was EE at nearly 80 MB/s and the best value
>> deals seem to be Three weith an unlimited data SIm for 20 quid a momth.
>>
>> It does of course rely on you living in a good reception area, there
>> are coverage maps available online for all 4 networks.
>>
>> You may also find that installing an external aerial and connecting
>> that to teh router will give better results.
>
> That's a good point, I tethered my mobile while at the new place (iD
> which I think uses EE) and was surprised at how good the connection was,
> I get unlimited calls, unlimited texts and 16 GB data a month for £8,
> worth thinking about.
>
> Not sure what connecting an external aerial to the router would do?
>

I have the Huawei B526 router. this has sockets at the back for external
4g antennas (solwise do a good range)

speed tends to depend on the signal quality, signal strength and local
conditions such as interference.

So if you have not very many bars, its worth putting an aerial up as its
(a) higher and (b) has less man made onsvtructions from itself to the tower.

Jeff Gaines wrote:

> Theo wrote:
>
>> Are there any alternative providers available to you?
>
> The Fritz checker says several are available, I followed the Vodaphone one
> through to the point of placing an order and it offered FTTC, not very quick but
> it is the back of beyond!

speeds will be the same regardless of who the ISP is, except those (TalkTalk?)
who have their own kit instead of using openreach

any that do use openreach will also be unable to provide if the local cabinet
has run out of available ports.

Jeff Gaines <jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 06/01/2022 in message <ABe*uTDDy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> Theo wrote:
> >What does:
> >https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL
> >say? Any VDSL or FTTP offerings?
>
> Not very much, I am on cabinet 11 but it doesn't list what is available.

That's puzzling. Searching by address, on FTTC I get:

Address <blah> on Exchange <blah> is served by Cabinet 1
Featured Products Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate
(Mbps) Downstream Handback
Threshold(Mbps) WBC FTTC Availability Date WBC SOGEA Availability Date
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) help 63.4 44 15.3 10 40 Available Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) help 61.3 40 15 9.1 35 Available Available
Featured Products Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Range (Mbps) Availability Date FTTP Install Process
FTTP on Demand 330 50 -- Available --
ADSL Products Downstream Line Rate (Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Range(Mbps) Availability Date
WBC ADSL 2+ Up to 4 -- 3 to 7 Available
WBC ADSL2+ Annex M Up to 4 Up to 0.5 3 to 7 Available
ADSL Max Up to 3.5 -- 2.5 to 6.5 Available
WBC Fixed Rate 1 -- -- Available
Fixed Rate 1 -- -- Available
Other Offerings Availability Date
VDSL Multicast Available
ADSL Multicast Available
Exchange Product Restrictions Status
FTTP Priority Exchange N
WLR Withdrawal N
SOADSL Restriction Y
The exchange is not in a current fibre priority programme
WLR is currently available at the exchange
SOADSL is restricted at the exchange
FTTP is not available.

On an address I know only has ADSL (but does have Virgin Media):

Address <blah>, on Exchange <blah> is served by Cabinet 5
ADSL Products Downstream Line Rate (Mbps) Upstream Line Rate (Mbps) Downstream Range(Mbps) Availability Date
WBC ADSL 2+ Up to 7 -- 4.5 to 11 Available
WBC ADSL2+ Annex M Up to 7 Up to 1 4.5 to 11 Available
ADSL Max Up to 5.5 -- 4 to 8 Available
WBC Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available
Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available
Other Offerings Availability Date
ADSL Multicast Available
Exchange Product Restrictions Status
FTTP Priority Exchange N
WLR Withdrawal N
SOADSL Restriction Y
The exchange is not in a current fibre priority programme
WLR is currently available at the exchange
SOADSL is restricted at the exchange
FTTP is not available.

So I wonder if your address has never had VDSL available?

> >Are there any alternative providers available to you?
>
> The Fritz checker says several are available, I followed the Vodaphone one
> through to the point of placing an order and it offered FTTC, not very
> quick but it is the back of beyond!

Which is the Fritz checker? Vodafone also operate via Cityfibre FTTP, but
I'm not sure of a third party FTTC offering that doesn't use Openreach.

> >I'm not sure how to check all the FTTP altnets, beyond this list:
> >https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/04/summary-of-full-fibre-build-progress-across-uk-broadband-isps.html
>
> I'm not after FTTP but I use a Roku box so was expecting FTTC.

If you have FTTP, take it. It isn't much more expensive at the lower tiers than
FTTC, and it's more reliable. Sounds like BT doesn't have much to offer
you, so 4G or an altnet would be the only other option.
(or Starlink, I suppose)

Theo

On 07/01/2022 in message <yBe*HOIDy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> Theo wrote:

>>On 06/01/2022 in message <ABe*uTDDy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> Theo
>>wrote:
>>>What does:
>>>https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL
>>>say? Any VDSL or FTTP offerings?
>>
>>Not very much, I am on cabinet 11 but it doesn't list what is available.
>
>That's puzzling. Searching by address, on FTTC I get:

Right, I was being impatient, the number was only allocated a couple of
days ago and the system has now caught up:

***************************************************************

Broadband Availability Checker

Telephone Number xxx on Exchange FORDINGBRIDGE is served by Cabinet 11
Featured Products Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate
(Mbps) Downstream Handback
Threshold(Mbps) WBC FTTC Availability Date WBC SOGEA Availability
Date Left in Jumper
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) help 24 18 4.6 2.6 15.9 Available Available --
VDSL Range B (Impacted) help 23.7 16 4.4 2.3 12.2 Available Available --
Featured Products Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate
(Mbps) Downstream Range (Mbps) Availability Date FTTP Install Process
FTTP on Demand 330 50 -- Available --
ADSL Products Downstream Line Rate (Mbps) Upstream Line Rate
(Mbps) Downstream Range(Mbps) ADSL Availability Date Left in Jumper
WBC Fixed Rate 1 -- -- Available --
Fixed Rate 1 -- -- Available --
SOADSL Products Downstream Line Rate (Mbps) Upstream Line Rate
(Mbps) Downstream Range(Mbps) WBC SOADSL Availability Date Left in Jumper
SOADSL Fixed Rate Up to 1 -- -- --
Observed Speeds VDSL
Max Observed Downstream Speed 80
Max Observed Upstream Speed 20
Observed Date 2019-05-11
Other Offerings Availability Date
VDSL Multicast Available
ADSL Multicast Available
Premise Environment Status
Bridge Tap U
VRI --
NTE FacePlate --
Last Test Date --
Exchange Product Restrictions Status
FTTP Priority Exchange N
WLR Withdrawal N
SOADSL Restriction Y
The exchange is not in a current fibre priority programme

WLR is currently available at the exchange

SOADSL is restricted at the exchange

FTTP is not available.

For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (VDSL or G.fast) services, the
stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service
usage.

***************************************************************

I think that means fibre is available but as Andy said if there's no ports
available then hard luck :-(

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
That's an amazing invention but who would ever want to use one of them?
(President Hayes speaking to Alexander Graham Bell on the invention of the
telephone)

On 07/01/2022 in message <yBe*HOIDy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> Theo wrote:

>>The Fritz checker says several are available, I followed the Vodaphone one
>>through to the point of placing an order and it offered FTTC, not very
>>quick but it is the back of beyond!
>
>Which is the Fritz checker? Vodafone also operate via Cityfibre FTTP, but
>I'm not sure of a third party FTTC offering that doesn't use Openreach.

Sorry, Kitz not Fritz - my excuse is I used to work for a German company :-)

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.
(Ken Olson, president Digital Equipment, 1977)