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aus+uk / aus.legal / Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

SubjectAuthor
* Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtMax
+* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtSylvia Else
|+* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtPeter Jason
||+* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtPhil Allison
|||`- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtPeter Jason
||+* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtNews 2021
|||`* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtMax
||| +- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtPhil Allison
||| +* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtGary R. Schmidt
||| |`- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtPhil Allison
||| +- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRex Libris
||| +- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRod Speed
||| `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtNews 2021
|||  +* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtPhil Allison
|||  |`* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtNews 2021
|||  | `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtPhil Allison
|||  |  `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtNews 2021
|||  |   `- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtPhil Allison
|||  `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtDechucka
|||   +* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtNews 2021
|||   |`* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtDechucka
|||   | `- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtNews 2021
|||   `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtPeter Jason
|||    `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtkeithr0
|||     +- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtFrank Slootweg
|||     `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtNoodle
|||      +- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtPetzl
|||      `- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRod Speed
||`* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRex Libris
|| +* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtPhil Allison
|| |`* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRex Libris
|| | `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtPhil Allison
|| |  `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRex Libris
|| |   `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtPhil Allison
|| |    `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRex Libris
|| |     +* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtPhil Allison
|| |     |`- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRex Libris
|| |     `- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRod Speed
|| +* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtDechucka
|| |`- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRex Libris
|| `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtFrank Slootweg
||  +* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtPetzl
||  |`* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtMax
||  | +- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRod Speed
||  | +* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtPetzl
||  | |+* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtMax
||  | ||+* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtNews 2021
||  | |||+- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtPetzl
||  | |||`* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtComputer Nerd Kev
||  | ||| +- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtComputer Nerd Kev
||  | ||| `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRod Speed
||  | |||  +* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtMax
||  | |||  |`- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRod Speed
||  | |||  `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtComputer Nerd Kev
||  | |||   `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRod Speed
||  | |||    `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtComputer Nerd Kev
||  | |||     `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRod Speed
||  | |||      `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtComputer Nerd Kev
||  | |||       `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRod Speed
||  | |||        `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtComputer Nerd Kev
||  | |||         +- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtNews 2021
||  | |||         `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRod Speed
||  | |||          `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtComputer Nerd Kev
||  | |||           `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRod Speed
||  | |||            `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtkeithr0
||  | |||             +- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtDechucka
||  | |||             `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRod Speed
||  | |||              `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtComputer Nerd Kev
||  | |||               `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRod Speed
||  | |||                `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtComputer Nerd Kev
||  | |||                 `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRod Speed
||  | |||                  `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtComputer Nerd Kev
||  | |||                   +* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtNews 2021
||  | |||                   |`* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtComputer Nerd Kev
||  | |||                   | +- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRod Speed
||  | |||                   | `- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtNews 2021
||  | |||                   `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRod Speed
||  | |||                    `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtComputer Nerd Kev
||  | |||                     +- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtDechucka
||  | |||                     +- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRod Speed
||  | |||                     `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRod Speed
||  | |||                      `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtComputer Nerd Kev
||  | |||                       +* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRod Speed
||  | |||                       |`* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtComputer Nerd Kev
||  | |||                       | `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRod Speed
||  | |||                       |  `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtComputer Nerd Kev
||  | |||                       |   +- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtNews 2021
||  | |||                       |   `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRod Speed
||  | |||                       |    `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtComputer Nerd Kev
||  | |||                       |     `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRod Speed
||  | |||                       |      `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtPetzl
||  | |||                       |       `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtComputer Nerd Kev
||  | |||                       |        `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtPetzl
||  | |||                       |         +- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtComputer Nerd Kev
||  | |||                       |         `- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtkeithr0
||  | |||                       `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtNews 2021
||  | |||                        `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtComputer Nerd Kev
||  | |||                         `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtNews 2021
||  | |||                          +- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court%%
||  | |||                          `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtComputer Nerd Kev
||  | |||                           `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtNews 2021
||  | ||`- Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtPetzl
||  | |`* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRex Libris
||  | `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRex Libris
||  `* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtMax
|`* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtRex Libris
`* Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in courtkeithr0

Pages:123456
Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

<s4rkg6$jgg$16@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1724&group=aus.legal#1724

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: new...@woa.com.au (News 2021)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 07:35:34 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: News 2021 - Sat, 10 Apr 2021 07:35 UTC

On Sat, 10 Apr 2021 01:58:25 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:

> In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>> On Fri, 09 Apr 2021 23:53:15 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>
>>> Past performance isn't always an indicator of future performance, as
>>> they say in the superannuation ads. Besides, if it's actually the
>>> intelligence services that collect your info from the VPN (by
>>> agreement with its dodgy operators), then it might still be used to
>>> put the cops on the trail of other evidence against you even if the
>>> VPN data itself isn't eventually used in court.
>>>
>>>>> Better to know you can't be tracked than to trust someone else not
>>>>> to track you (dodgy ex intelligence malware publishers especially).
>>>>
>>>> Trivial to avoid those.
>>>
>>> Apparantly not for everyone here who'se been recommending PIA.
>>
>> So, you don't trust their new Israeli owners.
>
> Umm, bit late in the thread to realise that isn't it? Actually I didn't
> trust them myself before the new owners, but now I don't understand why
> anyone would trust them.
>
>> Your recommendation(s) is/are?
>
> Non-existant. Any VPN could be logging you, or be allowing a government
> agency to track you by giving them the data as it comes.
If GovCo can not force them to hand over data, then it is a good chance
they are not. I note that some commercial VPNs have stopped providing
services in contries tyhat mad it mandatory to log.

> The only way to be sure is to run the VPN yourself, and get enough other
> people to also use it so that it covers up your own traffic.

Sigh!

Yes, two people can establish their own VPN link. It is most commonly
done by companies for their internal uses.

VPN traffic is encrypted anyway and there is nothing to stop you
encrypting data before it passes through the VPN.

> Then you're
> still stuffed if you do that in Australia and some spook comes to your
> door quoting the Anti Encryption law stuff.

There is no anti-encryption law stuff. Obviously a hell of a lot of what
has been discussed was over your head.
> At the very least I'd suggest using VPN+TOR, but I really can't claim to
> have looked into TOR well enough to know exactly how bulletproof it
> really is in practice.

Hint,TOR, apart from being heavily developed by the USA government, has a
vulnerability engineered into it and it came close to being exploited, so
you need to keep aware of who is providing the relays. Otherwise, it
really is just a distributed VPN, but you have no way of checking who are
the exit nodes and thus logging you.
> Rod seems confident though, you could always try getting a straight VPN
> recommendation out of him. Good luck.

Rod = your credibility nil. Hint, Woddles was never good enough to be
employed in IT in any area.

Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

<idd39kFd2k9U1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1725&group=aus.legal#1725

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal aus.computers
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From: %%...@gmail.com (%%)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 17:43:40 +1000
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 by: %% - Sat, 10 Apr 2021 07:43 UTC

"News 2021" <news21@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:s4rkg6$jgg$16@dont-email.me...
> On Sat, 10 Apr 2021 01:58:25 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>
>> In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 09 Apr 2021 23:53:15 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>
>>>> Past performance isn't always an indicator of future performance, as
>>>> they say in the superannuation ads. Besides, if it's actually the
>>>> intelligence services that collect your info from the VPN (by
>>>> agreement with its dodgy operators), then it might still be used to
>>>> put the cops on the trail of other evidence against you even if the
>>>> VPN data itself isn't eventually used in court.
>>>>
>>>>>> Better to know you can't be tracked than to trust someone else not
>>>>>> to track you (dodgy ex intelligence malware publishers especially).
>>>>>
>>>>> Trivial to avoid those.
>>>>
>>>> Apparantly not for everyone here who'se been recommending PIA.
>>>
>>> So, you don't trust their new Israeli owners.
>>
>> Umm, bit late in the thread to realise that isn't it? Actually I didn't
>> trust them myself before the new owners, but now I don't understand why
>> anyone would trust them.
>>
>>> Your recommendation(s) is/are?
>>
>> Non-existant. Any VPN could be logging you, or be allowing a government
>> agency to track you by giving them the data as it comes.
> If GovCo can not force them to hand over data, then it is a good chance
> they are not. I note that some commercial VPNs have stopped providing
> services in contries tyhat mad it mandatory to log.
>
>> The only way to be sure is to run the VPN yourself, and get enough other
>> people to also use it so that it covers up your own traffic.
>
> Sigh!
>
> Yes, two people can establish their own VPN link. It is most commonly
> done by companies for their internal uses.
>
> VPN traffic is encrypted anyway and there is nothing to stop you
> encrypting data before it passes through the VPN.
>
>> Then you're
>> still stuffed if you do that in Australia and some spook comes to your
>> door quoting the Anti Encryption law stuff.
>
> There is no anti-encryption law stuff. Obviously a hell of a lot of what
> has been discussed was over your head.
>
>> At the very least I'd suggest using VPN+TOR, but I really can't claim to
>> have looked into TOR well enough to know exactly how bulletproof it
>> really is in practice.
>
> Hint,TOR, apart from being heavily developed by the USA government, has a
> vulnerability engineered into it and it came close to being exploited, so
> you need to keep aware of who is providing the relays. Otherwise, it
> really is just a distributed VPN, but you have no way of checking who are
> the exit nodes and thus logging you.
>
>> Rod seems confident though, you could always try getting a straight VPN
>> recommendation out of him. Good luck.
>
> Rod = your credibility nil.

Any 2 year old could leave that for dead.

> Hint, Woddles was never good enough
> to be employed in IT in any area.

There you go, face down in the mud, as always.

Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

<s4tn9d$8qn$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1741&group=aus.legal#1741

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!d61cYM5loSLLZBwPL+i8Ew.user.gioia.aioe.org.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: not...@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 02:35:27 +0000 (UTC)
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 by: Computer Nerd Kev - Sun, 11 Apr 2021 02:35 UTC

In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
> news:s4qvq8$mci$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:s4qpda$irh$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> news:s4mdgt$174f$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:s4lars$p47$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:s4jpai$1vj3$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4io8p$ndr$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:id2f5dFiqtsU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/04/2021 11:02 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4g16d$1oen$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4e4up$996$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4dqva$11gc$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4dbss$1ujb$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4b8q7$16ev$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you do want to do some untracable browsing,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WiFi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> option, accessed from inside a car parked out the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> building where it is offered. You want to be using
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WiFi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interface
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where the MAC address can be changed each time,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> potentially be a give-away. Boot from a live Linux
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distro
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something like Tiny Core Linux which always stores
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> user-data
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RAM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and can be easily booted to a clean default state.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trouble with that approach is that its trivial
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to work out that it was your car parked there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You want to do it in a small country town where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> traffic cameras following you I suppose. Easy for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its not just traffic cameras, our country town main
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> street has full CCTV coverage down to the cop shop.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure what sort of state surveillance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has been set up where you are,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It isnt state surveillance, it was done by the council
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> number of physical assaults in the main street at night
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but in the country towns I know that CCTV
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be independent for each store,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We have that here too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so the cops would have to ask the corresponding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> store owner to view their footage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The main street footage all goes to the copshop live.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd call that state surveillance, but it's academic.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many towns don't have anything like that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If they know which store captured you on CCTV, then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know you were there anyway, so the battle is already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lost.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That?s not the case if they have worked out that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had used the library free wifi to do something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nefarious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and were wanting to work out who it was who did that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The only way the system you're describing would work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is if there was a Chinese-style police CCTV network
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically tracking your location wherever you go.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current system would be able to work out who did it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fine.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nonsense,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure people search things like "how to commit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> murder"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the time. They're not going to track down the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> location
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and then identity of every single searcher in the hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one will turn out to be their suspect.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its done the other way. Someone ends up dead, they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consider who might well be the one who did it, usually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> starting with those associated with the one who ended
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up dead. They then see who has a record of doing a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> search which looks at the mo that was used etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, exactly, and if the murderer did their research
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at a free WiFi hotspot in the way I described, then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there wouldn't be a record.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Corse there is a record with that free wifi.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not of who'se using it (besides MAC address, which I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change beforehand).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Except if the cops intensely investigated every single
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IP address from which any relevant browsing took
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> place within the last few days/weeks/months (bound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be many different people), which is silly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, but when they have decided that one or two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals are the likely perp and have no evidence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it was them that they can present in a trial, they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are free to track where their mobiles have been and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then check the records at the various free wifis and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see if they can find any evidence of them searching
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, so turn off your mobile.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Makes it even easier for them to check because
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they only have to check the time when its off.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then just leave it at home - simples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still trivial to check the free wifi CCTVs for the perps.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes maybe it's possible for the cops to catalogue the
>>>>>>>>>>>> IP addresses of all the free wifi hotspots in the country,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Doesn?t have to be the country with most perps.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nonsense, people can travel all over the place.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes they can, but few bother to do that when plotting a murder.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I used to regularly use the free WiFi while visiting a town over
>>>>>>>>>> 100Km
>>>>>>>>>> away,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But few bother to do that just to research a murder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh right we're just talking about lazy murderers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope, the vast bulk of murderers who are
>>>>>>> too stupid to do their research right. If they
>>>>>>> had half a clue they would use a vpn.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well they'd just do the searching at home on
>>>>>>>> the couch like the woman this thread is about
>>>>>>>> probably did, so there's no helping them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your approach wont help the others either.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> then launch into action whenever there's a murder,
>>>>>>>>>>>> scouring the metadata for any murder-related
>>>>>>>>>>>> searches, and then scrambling cops statewide
>>>>>>>>>>>> to collect CCTV footage from each location.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Like I said previously, you have that backwards.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What they actually do is decide that a couple
>>>>>>>>>>> of individuals are likely candidates for a particular
>>>>>>>>>>> murder and then check which free wifis have
>>>>>>>>>>> CCTV of those individuals using those free wifis
>>>>>>>>>>> and then check the browsing history on those
>>>>>>>>>>> and see if that matches the time those individuals
>>>>>>>>>>> were there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That's even harder!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bullshit it is.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> With your way they've got to check every single free WiFi
>>>>>>>>>> site's CCTV in case one of their suspects appears on it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Trivial to do with the small country towns you keep mindlessly
>>>>>>>>> rabbiting on about which most perps don't actually bother with.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Round and round in circles we go,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yep, you never did have a fucking clue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> what I have told you you already know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And everyone knows you don?t have a clue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The cops don't know where they are if they take the precautions
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That?s bullshit too with so much CCTV around now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You've just said that it's easy for the cops to know which CCTV
>>>>>> footage to check without knowing where a suspect is, because
>>>>>> there's so much CCTV to check and that will tell them where the
>>>>>> suspect is. You've clearly given up on making any sense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've described (mainly not letting the phone
>>>>>>>> network track them there), so they'd have to
>>>>>>>> check CCTV in every country town (and big city).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bullshit they do because hardly anyone heads off to the
>>>>>>> other side of the country or the other side of the world
>>>>>>> to do their research when they can just use a vpn.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh OK, my plan won't work because nobody will use
>>>>>> it in the first place. I can't really argue with that.
>>>>>
>>>>>> However I wouldn't trust the VPN provider as an alternative myself.
>>>>>
>>>>> But then you are the fool too stupid to use a mobile.
>>>>>
>>>>> It makes more sense to use a vpn that you know
>>>>> doesn't keep logs because they have never been
>>>>> forced by a court to reveal what is in the logs
>>>>> than to fart around moving halfway around the
>>>>> fucking country to research how to murder
>>>>> someone and not get caught.
>>>>>
>>>>> And if they have been forced to provide their
>>>>> logs, that has to have been announced in the
>>>>> court or it wouldn't be acceptable as evidence
>>>>> in the trial of that particular perp.
>>>>
>>>> Past performance isn't always an indicator of future
>>>> performance, as they say in the superannuation ads.
>>>
>>> More mindless bullshit. Why would they start logging
>>> when they havent done that before. And in fact in
>>> many jurisdictions the law requires that they don't
>>> keep user data that they may have chosen to before.
>>>
>>>> Besides, if it's actually the intelligence services
>>>> that collect your info from the VPN (by agreement
>>>> with its dodgy operators),
>>>
>>> Why the fuck would those who run the
>>> vpn agree to do that ? In spades with
>>> foreign intelligence services ?
>
>> Either they get paid to,
>
> Why would anyone pay them to do that ?


Click here to read the complete article
Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

<s4tp93$qrg$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1744&group=aus.legal#1744

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!d61cYM5loSLLZBwPL+i8Ew.user.gioia.aioe.org.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: not...@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 03:09:24 +0000 (UTC)
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 by: Computer Nerd Kev - Sun, 11 Apr 2021 03:09 UTC

In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Apr 2021 01:58:25 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>> In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 09 Apr 2021 23:53:15 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>
>>>> Past performance isn't always an indicator of future performance, as
>>>> they say in the superannuation ads. Besides, if it's actually the
>>>> intelligence services that collect your info from the VPN (by
>>>> agreement with its dodgy operators), then it might still be used to
>>>> put the cops on the trail of other evidence against you even if the
>>>> VPN data itself isn't eventually used in court.
>>>>
>>>>>> Better to know you can't be tracked than to trust someone else not
>>>>>> to track you (dodgy ex intelligence malware publishers especially).
>>>>>
>>>>> Trivial to avoid those.
>>>>
>>>> Apparantly not for everyone here who'se been recommending PIA.
>>>
>>> So, you don't trust their new Israeli owners.
>>
>> Umm, bit late in the thread to realise that isn't it? Actually I didn't
>> trust them myself before the new owners, but now I don't understand why
>> anyone would trust them.
>>
>>> Your recommendation(s) is/are?
>>
>> Non-existant. Any VPN could be logging you, or be allowing a government
>> agency to track you by giving them the data as it comes.
> If GovCo can not force them to hand over data, then it is a good chance
> they are not. I note that some commercial VPNs have stopped providing
> services in contries tyhat mad it mandatory to log.

Well you can call that a "good chance" and take it if you like. I
think with mobs like PIA it's an extrememly poor chance, and
they'll probably sell you out the first chance they get. That some
don't operate where it's publicly known that they'd have to keep
logs is just an obvious PR decision and proves nothing.

>> The only way to be sure is to run the VPN yourself, and get enough other
>> people to also use it so that it covers up your own traffic.
>
> Sigh!
>
> Yes, two people can establish their own VPN link. It is most commonly
> done by companies for their internal uses.

What are you talking about? Yes I know what a VPN is, but if it's
just you using it then someone just has to log the internet traffic
at the endpoint. For this purpose you need to get lots of other
people using it so that the data at the endpoint isn't able to be
matched with your personal usage.

> VPN traffic is encrypted anyway and there is nothing to stop you
> encrypting data before it passes through the VPN.

So what? They can still tell that you've connected to
illegalwebsite.com even if the data you sent to that site was
encrypted. illegalwebsite.com might have their own logs that reveal
the details of what you accessed from that IP address anyway.

>> Then you're
>> still stuffed if you do that in Australia and some spook comes to your
>> door quoting the Anti Encryption law stuff.
>
> There is no anti-encryption law stuff. Obviously a hell of a lot of what
> has been discussed was over your head.

The "Assistance and Access Act". I posted all about it here when it
was proposed and passed. With it the Aus gov can demand a VPN to
grant them access to information from the servers, as with with
pretty much any other computer-related company.

>> At the very least I'd suggest using VPN+TOR, but I really can't claim to
>> have looked into TOR well enough to know exactly how bulletproof it
>> really is in practice.
>
> Hint,TOR, apart from being heavily developed by the USA government, has a
> vulnerability engineered into it and it came close to being exploited, so
> you need to keep aware of who is providing the relays. Otherwise, it
> really is just a distributed VPN, but you have no way of checking who are
> the exit nodes and thus logging you.

Yes, I know all that. I haven't looked into exactly what gives
people faith in the relays, or the details of previous exploits. I
do know that the theory is that it should take more than just the
info from the exit node to trace data back to the user though
(unlike just using a VPN).

I'll not debate it further because as I said in the first place I
don't know the specifics. You already admit that using a VPN is
still taking a chance, so TOR just adds an extra layer which
_might_ complicate things for someone tracking you.

>> Rod seems confident though, you could always try getting a straight VPN
>> recommendation out of him. Good luck.
>
> Rod = your credibility nil. Hint, Woddles was never good enough to be
> employed in IT in any area.

Did you really not pick up on any irony in me suggesting you ask
Rod? Seriously?!

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

<s4tq20$i0f$1@dont-email.me>

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From: new...@woa.com.au (News 2021)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 03:22:40 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: News 2021 - Sun, 11 Apr 2021 03:22 UTC

On Sun, 11 Apr 2021 02:35:27 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:

know what data they can access.
>
> Everyone knows they can access internet metadata, and that they _could_
> access an Australian VPN's data under the anti-encryption laws, so
> what's the secret?

What anti-encryption laws?
FWIW, I crunch my own encryption using globally checked and certified
method(s)

Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

<s4tr2i$i0f$2@dont-email.me>

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From: new...@woa.com.au (News 2021)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 03:40:03 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: News 2021 - Sun, 11 Apr 2021 03:40 UTC

On Sun, 11 Apr 2021 03:09:24 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:

> In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>> On Sat, 10 Apr 2021 01:58:25 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>>> In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 09 Apr 2021 23:53:15 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>> Past performance isn't always an indicator of future performance, as
>>>>> they say in the superannuation ads. Besides, if it's actually the
>>>>> intelligence services that collect your info from the VPN (by
>>>>> agreement with its dodgy operators), then it might still be used to
>>>>> put the cops on the trail of other evidence against you even if the
>>>>> VPN data itself isn't eventually used in court.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Better to know you can't be tracked than to trust someone else not
>>>>>>> to track you (dodgy ex intelligence malware publishers
>>>>>>> especially).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trivial to avoid those.
>>>>>
>>>>> Apparantly not for everyone here who'se been recommending PIA.
>>>>
>>>> So, you don't trust their new Israeli owners.
>>>
>>> Umm, bit late in the thread to realise that isn't it? Actually I
>>> didn't trust them myself before the new owners, but now I don't
>>> understand why anyone would trust them.
>>>
>>>> Your recommendation(s) is/are?
>>>
>>> Non-existant. Any VPN could be logging you, or be allowing a
>>> government agency to track you by giving them the data as it comes.
>> If GovCo can not force them to hand over data, then it is a good chance
>> they are not. I note that some commercial VPNs have stopped providing
>> services in contries tyhat mad it mandatory to log.
>
> Well you can call that a "good chance" and take it if you like. I think
> with mobs like PIA it's an extrememly poor chance, and they'll probably
> sell you out the first chance they get. That some don't operate where
> it's publicly known that they'd have to keep logs is just an obvious PR
> decision and proves nothing.
>
>>> The only way to be sure is to run the VPN yourself, and get enough
>>> other people to also use it so that it covers up your own traffic.
>>
>> Sigh!
>>
>> Yes, two people can establish their own VPN link. It is most commonly
>> done by companies for their internal uses.
>
> What are you talking about?
Obviously you don't know what you are talking about.

> Yes I know what a VPN is, but if it's just
> you using it then someone just has to log the internet traffic at the
> endpoint.
So you choose a company/service tha doesn't do any logging. Problem
solved.

> For this purpose you need to get lots of other people using it
> so that the data at the endpoint isn't able to be matched with your
> personal usage.

That is why you use a public company.

>
>> VPN traffic is encrypted anyway and there is nothing to stop you
>> encrypting data before it passes through the VPN.
>
> So what? They can still tell that you've connected to illegalwebsite.com
> even if the data you sent to that site was encrypted.

What illegal website? How is a website illegaL?

> illegalwebsite.com
> might have their own logs that reveal the details of what you accessed
> from that IP address anyway.

Err, it you use a VPN and have your software set up properly, the website
only knows the portal you went through to connect to them, not how you
got to that portal.

>
>>> Then you're still stuffed if you do that in Australia and some spook
?>> comes to your door quoting the Anti Encryption law stuff.

>>
>> There is no anti-encryption law stuff. Obviously a hell of a lot of
>> what has been discussed was over your head.
>
> The "Assistance and Access Act". I posted all about it here when it was
> proposed and passed. With it the Aus gov can demand a VPN to grant them
> access to information from the servers, as with with pretty much any
> other computer-related company.

That is not an anti-encryption law.

Dood, you are thick. As I've said and pointed out, there are VPN
companies that have no such logs.

>
>>> At the very least I'd suggest using VPN+TOR, but I really can't claim
>>> to have looked into TOR well enough to know exactly how bulletproof it
>>> really is in practice.
>>
>> Hint,TOR, apart from being heavily developed by the USA government, has
>> a vulnerability engineered into it and it came close to being
>> exploited, so you need to keep aware of who is providing the relays.
>> Otherwise, it really is just a distributed VPN, but you have no way of
>> checking who are the exit nodes and thus logging you.
>
> Yes, I know all that. I haven't looked into exactly what gives people
> faith in the relays, or the details of previous exploits. I do know that
> the theory is that it should take more than just the info from the exit
> node to trace data back to the user though (unlike just using a VPN).
>
> I'll not debate it further because as I said in the first place I don't
> know the specifics. You already admit that using a VPN is still taking a
> chance, so TOR just adds an extra layer which _might_ complicate things
> for someone tracking you.

Talk about scrambling the information given to you. Your conclusion and
not mine.
>
>>> Rod seems confident though, you could always try getting a straight
>>> VPN recommendation out of him. Good luck.
>>
>> Rod = your credibility nil. Hint, Woddles was never good enough to be
>> employed in IT in any area.
>
> Did you really not pick up on any irony in me suggesting you ask Rod?
> Seriously?!

Nope. Woddles went onto my "this guy is full of shit" list in BBS days. I
actually met the turd face to face once and had a mirthful time seeing
the guy that asked him to come and give him advice, quickly come to the
same conclusion and then give Woddles the bums rush to get rid of him.

Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

<idf9sjFq71fU1@mid.individual.net>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1747&group=aus.legal#1747

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 13:48:28 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Sun, 11 Apr 2021 03:48 UTC

"Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
news:s4tn9d$8qn$1@gioia.aioe.org...
> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:s4qvq8$mci$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:s4qpda$irh$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:s4mdgt$174f$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:s4lars$p47$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:s4jpai$1vj3$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4io8p$ndr$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:id2f5dFiqtsU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/04/2021 11:02 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4g16d$1oen$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4e4up$996$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4dqva$11gc$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4dbss$1ujb$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4b8q7$16ev$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you do want to do some untracable browsing,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WiFi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> option, accessed from inside a car parked out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> building where it is offered. You want to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WiFi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interface
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where the MAC address can be changed each time,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> potentially be a give-away. Boot from a live
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linux
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distro
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something like Tiny Core Linux which always
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stores
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> user-data
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RAM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and can be easily booted to a clean default
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trouble with that approach is that its trivial
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to work out that it was your car parked there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You want to do it in a small country town where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> traffic cameras following you I suppose. Easy for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its not just traffic cameras, our country town main
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> street has full CCTV coverage down to the cop shop.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure what sort of state surveillance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has been set up where you are,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It isnt state surveillance, it was done by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> council
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> number of physical assaults in the main street at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> night
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but in the country towns I know that CCTV
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be independent for each store,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We have that here too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so the cops would have to ask the corresponding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> store owner to view their footage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The main street footage all goes to the copshop live.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd call that state surveillance, but it's academic.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many towns don't have anything like that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If they know which store captured you on CCTV, then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know you were there anyway, so the battle is already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lost.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That?s not the case if they have worked out that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had used the library free wifi to do something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nefarious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and were wanting to work out who it was who did that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The only way the system you're describing would work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is if there was a Chinese-style police CCTV network
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically tracking your location wherever you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current system would be able to work out who did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fine.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nonsense,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure people search things like "how to commit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> murder"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the time. They're not going to track down the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> location
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and then identity of every single searcher in the hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one will turn out to be their suspect.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its done the other way. Someone ends up dead, they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consider who might well be the one who did it, usually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> starting with those associated with the one who ended
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up dead. They then see who has a record of doing a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> search which looks at the mo that was used etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, exactly, and if the murderer did their research
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at a free WiFi hotspot in the way I described, then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there wouldn't be a record.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Corse there is a record with that free wifi.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not of who'se using it (besides MAC address, which I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change beforehand).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Except if the cops intensely investigated every single
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IP address from which any relevant browsing took
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> place within the last few days/weeks/months (bound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be many different people), which is silly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, but when they have decided that one or two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals are the likely perp and have no evidence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it was them that they can present in a trial, they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are free to track where their mobiles have been and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then check the records at the various free wifis and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see if they can find any evidence of them searching
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, so turn off your mobile.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Makes it even easier for them to check because
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they only have to check the time when its off.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then just leave it at home - simples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still trivial to check the free wifi CCTVs for the perps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes maybe it's possible for the cops to catalogue the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> IP addresses of all the free wifi hotspots in the country,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Doesn?t have to be the country with most perps.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nonsense, people can travel all over the place.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes they can, but few bother to do that when plotting a murder.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I used to regularly use the free WiFi while visiting a town over
>>>>>>>>>>> 100Km
>>>>>>>>>>> away,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But few bother to do that just to research a murder.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Oh right we're just talking about lazy murderers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nope, the vast bulk of murderers who are
>>>>>>>> too stupid to do their research right. If they
>>>>>>>> had half a clue they would use a vpn.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well they'd just do the searching at home on
>>>>>>>>> the couch like the woman this thread is about
>>>>>>>>> probably did, so there's no helping them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your approach wont help the others either.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> then launch into action whenever there's a murder,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> scouring the metadata for any murder-related
>>>>>>>>>>>>> searches, and then scrambling cops statewide
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to collect CCTV footage from each location.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Like I said previously, you have that backwards.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What they actually do is decide that a couple
>>>>>>>>>>>> of individuals are likely candidates for a particular
>>>>>>>>>>>> murder and then check which free wifis have
>>>>>>>>>>>> CCTV of those individuals using those free wifis
>>>>>>>>>>>> and then check the browsing history on those
>>>>>>>>>>>> and see if that matches the time those individuals
>>>>>>>>>>>> were there.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That's even harder!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bullshit it is.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> With your way they've got to check every single free WiFi
>>>>>>>>>>> site's CCTV in case one of their suspects appears on it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Trivial to do with the small country towns you keep mindlessly
>>>>>>>>>> rabbiting on about which most perps don't actually bother with.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Round and round in circles we go,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yep, you never did have a fucking clue.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> what I have told you you already know.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And everyone knows you don?t have a clue.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The cops don't know where they are if they take the precautions
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That?s bullshit too with so much CCTV around now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You've just said that it's easy for the cops to know which CCTV
>>>>>>> footage to check without knowing where a suspect is, because
>>>>>>> there's so much CCTV to check and that will tell them where the
>>>>>>> suspect is. You've clearly given up on making any sense.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've described (mainly not letting the phone
>>>>>>>>> network track them there), so they'd have to
>>>>>>>>> check CCTV in every country town (and big city).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bullshit they do because hardly anyone heads off to the
>>>>>>>> other side of the country or the other side of the world
>>>>>>>> to do their research when they can just use a vpn.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh OK, my plan won't work because nobody will use
>>>>>>> it in the first place. I can't really argue with that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However I wouldn't trust the VPN provider as an alternative myself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But then you are the fool too stupid to use a mobile.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It makes more sense to use a vpn that you know
>>>>>> doesn't keep logs because they have never been
>>>>>> forced by a court to reveal what is in the logs
>>>>>> than to fart around moving halfway around the
>>>>>> fucking country to research how to murder
>>>>>> someone and not get caught.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And if they have been forced to provide their
>>>>>> logs, that has to have been announced in the
>>>>>> court or it wouldn't be acceptable as evidence
>>>>>> in the trial of that particular perp.
>>>>>
>>>>> Past performance isn't always an indicator of future
>>>>> performance, as they say in the superannuation ads.
>>>>
>>>> More mindless bullshit. Why would they start logging
>>>> when they havent done that before. And in fact in
>>>> many jurisdictions the law requires that they don't
>>>> keep user data that they may have chosen to before.
>>>>
>>>>> Besides, if it's actually the intelligence services
>>>>> that collect your info from the VPN (by agreement
>>>>> with its dodgy operators),
>>>>
>>>> Why the fuck would those who run the
>>>> vpn agree to do that ? In spades with
>>>> foreign intelligence services ?
>>
>>> Either they get paid to,
>>
>> Why would anyone pay them to do that ?
>
> So they can collect the data. Intelligence pays VPN, gets logs.
> Nothing there that's difficult to understand.


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Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

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Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
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 by: %% - Sun, 11 Apr 2021 03:53 UTC

"News 2021" <news21@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:s4tr2i$i0f$2@dont-email.me...
> On Sun, 11 Apr 2021 03:09:24 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>
>> In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 10 Apr 2021 01:58:25 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>>>> In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 09 Apr 2021 23:53:15 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>> Past performance isn't always an indicator of future performance, as
>>>>>> they say in the superannuation ads. Besides, if it's actually the
>>>>>> intelligence services that collect your info from the VPN (by
>>>>>> agreement with its dodgy operators), then it might still be used to
>>>>>> put the cops on the trail of other evidence against you even if the
>>>>>> VPN data itself isn't eventually used in court.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Better to know you can't be tracked than to trust someone else not
>>>>>>>> to track you (dodgy ex intelligence malware publishers
>>>>>>>> especially).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Trivial to avoid those.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apparantly not for everyone here who'se been recommending PIA.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, you don't trust their new Israeli owners.
>>>>
>>>> Umm, bit late in the thread to realise that isn't it? Actually I
>>>> didn't trust them myself before the new owners, but now I don't
>>>> understand why anyone would trust them.
>>>>
>>>>> Your recommendation(s) is/are?
>>>>
>>>> Non-existant. Any VPN could be logging you, or be allowing a
>>>> government agency to track you by giving them the data as it comes.
>>> If GovCo can not force them to hand over data, then it is a good chance
>>> they are not. I note that some commercial VPNs have stopped providing
>>> services in contries tyhat mad it mandatory to log.
>>
>> Well you can call that a "good chance" and take it if you like. I think
>> with mobs like PIA it's an extrememly poor chance, and they'll probably
>> sell you out the first chance they get. That some don't operate where
>> it's publicly known that they'd have to keep logs is just an obvious PR
>> decision and proves nothing.
>>
>>>> The only way to be sure is to run the VPN yourself, and get enough
>>>> other people to also use it so that it covers up your own traffic.
>>>
>>> Sigh!
>>>
>>> Yes, two people can establish their own VPN link. It is most commonly
>>> done by companies for their internal uses.
>>
>> What are you talking about?
> Obviously you don't know what you are talking about.
>
>> Yes I know what a VPN is, but if it's just
>> you using it then someone just has to log the internet traffic at the
>> endpoint.
> So you choose a company/service tha doesn't do any logging. Problem
> solved.
>
>> For this purpose you need to get lots of other people using it
>> so that the data at the endpoint isn't able to be matched with your
>> personal usage.
>
> That is why you use a public company.
>
>>
>>> VPN traffic is encrypted anyway and there is nothing to stop you
>>> encrypting data before it passes through the VPN.
>>
>> So what? They can still tell that you've connected to illegalwebsite.com
>> even if the data you sent to that site was encrypted.
>
> What illegal website? How is a website illegaL?
>
>> illegalwebsite.com
>> might have their own logs that reveal the details of what you accessed
>> from that IP address anyway.
>
> Err, it you use a VPN and have your software set up properly, the website
> only knows the portal you went through to connect to them, not how you
> got to that portal.
>
>>
>>>> Then you're still stuffed if you do that in Australia and some spook
> ?>> comes to your door quoting the Anti Encryption law stuff.
>
>>>
>>> There is no anti-encryption law stuff. Obviously a hell of a lot of
>>> what has been discussed was over your head.
>>
>> The "Assistance and Access Act". I posted all about it here when it was
>> proposed and passed. With it the Aus gov can demand a VPN to grant them
>> access to information from the servers, as with with pretty much any
>> other computer-related company.
>
> That is not an anti-encryption law.
>
> Dood, you are thick. As I've said and pointed out, there are VPN
> companies that have no such logs.
>
>>
>>>> At the very least I'd suggest using VPN+TOR, but I really can't claim
>>>> to have looked into TOR well enough to know exactly how bulletproof it
>>>> really is in practice.
>>>
>>> Hint,TOR, apart from being heavily developed by the USA government, has
>>> a vulnerability engineered into it and it came close to being
>>> exploited, so you need to keep aware of who is providing the relays.
>>> Otherwise, it really is just a distributed VPN, but you have no way of
>>> checking who are the exit nodes and thus logging you.
>>
>> Yes, I know all that. I haven't looked into exactly what gives people
>> faith in the relays, or the details of previous exploits. I do know that
>> the theory is that it should take more than just the info from the exit
>> node to trace data back to the user though (unlike just using a VPN).
>>
>> I'll not debate it further because as I said in the first place I don't
>> know the specifics. You already admit that using a VPN is still taking a
>> chance, so TOR just adds an extra layer which _might_ complicate things
>> for someone tracking you.
>
> Talk about scrambling the information given to you. Your conclusion and
> not mine.
>>
>>>> Rod seems confident though, you could always try getting a straight
>>>> VPN recommendation out of him. Good luck.
>>>
>>> Rod = your credibility nil. Hint, Woddles was never good enough to be
>>> employed in IT in any area.
>>
>> Did you really not pick up on any irony in me suggesting you ask Rod?
>> Seriously?!

> Nope. Woddles went onto my "this guy is full of shit" list
> in BBS days. I actually met the turd face to face once

Bullshit you ever did.

> and had a mirthful time seeing the guy that asked him to come
> and give him advice, quickly come to the same conclusion and
> then give Woddles the bums rush to get rid of him.

Just your pathetic little drug crazed drunken fantasy.

Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

<s502ln$p24$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1762&group=aus.legal#1762

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!NErAfUdIqXCCah5XyytQVQ.user.gioia.aioe.org.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: not...@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 00:02:00 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Computer Nerd Kev - Mon, 12 Apr 2021 00:02 UTC

In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Apr 2021 03:09:24 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>> In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 10 Apr 2021 01:58:25 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>>>> In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 09 Apr 2021 23:53:15 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>> Past performance isn't always an indicator of future performance, as
>>>>>> they say in the superannuation ads. Besides, if it's actually the
>>>>>> intelligence services that collect your info from the VPN (by
>>>>>> agreement with its dodgy operators), then it might still be used to
>>>>>> put the cops on the trail of other evidence against you even if the
>>>>>> VPN data itself isn't eventually used in court.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Better to know you can't be tracked than to trust someone else not
>>>>>>>> to track you (dodgy ex intelligence malware publishers
>>>>>>>> especially).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Trivial to avoid those.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apparantly not for everyone here who'se been recommending PIA.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, you don't trust their new Israeli owners.
>>>>
>>>> Umm, bit late in the thread to realise that isn't it? Actually I
>>>> didn't trust them myself before the new owners, but now I don't
>>>> understand why anyone would trust them.
>>>>
>>>>> Your recommendation(s) is/are?
>>>>
>>>> Non-existant. Any VPN could be logging you, or be allowing a
>>>> government agency to track you by giving them the data as it comes.
>>> If GovCo can not force them to hand over data, then it is a good chance
>>> they are not. I note that some commercial VPNs have stopped providing
>>> services in contries tyhat mad it mandatory to log.
>>
>> Well you can call that a "good chance" and take it if you like. I think
>> with mobs like PIA it's an extrememly poor chance, and they'll probably
>> sell you out the first chance they get. That some don't operate where
>> it's publicly known that they'd have to keep logs is just an obvious PR
>> decision and proves nothing.
>>
>>>> The only way to be sure is to run the VPN yourself, and get enough
>>>> other people to also use it so that it covers up your own traffic.
>>>
>>> Sigh!
>>>
>>> Yes, two people can establish their own VPN link. It is most commonly
>>> done by companies for their internal uses.
>>
>> What are you talking about?
> Obviously you don't know what you are talking about.
>
>> Yes I know what a VPN is, but if it's just
>> you using it then someone just has to log the internet traffic at the
>> endpoint.
> So you choose a company/service tha doesn't do any logging. Problem
> solved.

So the basis of your argument then is just find a VPN that doesn't
log you. I'm saying there's no way to be sure a VPN isn't logging
you, unless you set it up yourself, otherwise you're just trusting
someone else. In PIA's case, that trust is also of distinctly
untrustworthy people in my opinion.

Why this needs explaining to you, I have no idea.

>> For this purpose you need to get lots of other people using it
>> so that the data at the endpoint isn't able to be matched with your
>> personal usage.
>
> That is why you use a public company.
>
>>
>>> VPN traffic is encrypted anyway and there is nothing to stop you
>>> encrypting data before it passes through the VPN.
>>
>> So what? They can still tell that you've connected to illegalwebsite.com
>> even if the data you sent to that site was encrypted.
>
> What illegal website? How is a website illegaL?

Not worth answering a question that obvious.

>> illegalwebsite.com
>> might have their own logs that reveal the details of what you accessed
>> from that IP address anyway.
>
> Err, it you use a VPN and have your software set up properly, the website
> only knows the portal you went through to connect to them, not how you
> got to that portal.

VPN logs you, website logs VPN, put the two together and anyone
looking at both logs knows what you accessed.

>>>> Then you're still stuffed if you do that in Australia and some spook
> ?>> comes to your door quoting the Anti Encryption law stuff.
>
>>>
>>> There is no anti-encryption law stuff. Obviously a hell of a lot of
>>> what has been discussed was over your head.
>>
>> The "Assistance and Access Act". I posted all about it here when it was
>> proposed and passed. With it the Aus gov can demand a VPN to grant them
>> access to information from the servers, as with with pretty much any
>> other computer-related company.
>
> That is not an anti-encryption law.

Just what the media called it and more accurate than the official
name because it can be used to compel businesses to put back-doors
in encrypted services (unless you believe in the ammendments that
contradict themselves).

> Dood, you are thick. As I've said and pointed out, there are VPN
> companies that have no such logs.

Which VPN companies did you point out? Just dodgy PIA I think.
How do you know they don't keep logs, or allow others real-time
access to the usage data for them to log, so they can still
claim in court not to have logs themselves?

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

<s502v0$rro$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1763&group=aus.legal#1763

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.legal aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!NErAfUdIqXCCah5XyytQVQ.user.gioia.aioe.org.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: not...@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 00:06:57 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Computer Nerd Kev - Mon, 12 Apr 2021 00:06 UTC

In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
> news:s4tn9d$8qn$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:s4qvq8$mci$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> news:s4qpda$irh$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:s4mdgt$174f$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:s4lars$p47$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4jpai$1vj3$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4io8p$ndr$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:id2f5dFiqtsU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/04/2021 11:02 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4g16d$1oen$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4e4up$996$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4dqva$11gc$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4dbss$1ujb$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4b8q7$16ev$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you do want to do some untracable browsing,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WiFi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> option, accessed from inside a car parked out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> building where it is offered. You want to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WiFi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interface
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where the MAC address can be changed each time,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> potentially be a give-away. Boot from a live
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linux
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distro
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something like Tiny Core Linux which always
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stores
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> user-data
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RAM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and can be easily booted to a clean default
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trouble with that approach is that its trivial
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to work out that it was your car parked there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You want to do it in a small country town where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> traffic cameras following you I suppose. Easy for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its not just traffic cameras, our country town main
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> street has full CCTV coverage down to the cop shop.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure what sort of state surveillance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has been set up where you are,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It isnt state surveillance, it was done by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> council
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> number of physical assaults in the main street at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> night
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but in the country towns I know that CCTV
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be independent for each store,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We have that here too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so the cops would have to ask the corresponding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> store owner to view their footage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The main street footage all goes to the copshop live.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd call that state surveillance, but it's academic.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many towns don't have anything like that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If they know which store captured you on CCTV, then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know you were there anyway, so the battle is already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lost.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That?s not the case if they have worked out that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had used the library free wifi to do something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nefarious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and were wanting to work out who it was who did that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The only way the system you're describing would work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is if there was a Chinese-style police CCTV network
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically tracking your location wherever you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current system would be able to work out who did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fine.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nonsense,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure people search things like "how to commit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> murder"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the time. They're not going to track down the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> location
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and then identity of every single searcher in the hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one will turn out to be their suspect.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its done the other way. Someone ends up dead, they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consider who might well be the one who did it, usually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> starting with those associated with the one who ended
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up dead. They then see who has a record of doing a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> search which looks at the mo that was used etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, exactly, and if the murderer did their research
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at a free WiFi hotspot in the way I described, then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there wouldn't be a record.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Corse there is a record with that free wifi.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not of who'se using it (besides MAC address, which I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change beforehand).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Except if the cops intensely investigated every single
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IP address from which any relevant browsing took
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> place within the last few days/weeks/months (bound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be many different people), which is silly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, but when they have decided that one or two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals are the likely perp and have no evidence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it was them that they can present in a trial, they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are free to track where their mobiles have been and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then check the records at the various free wifis and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see if they can find any evidence of them searching
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, so turn off your mobile.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Makes it even easier for them to check because
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they only have to check the time when its off.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then just leave it at home - simples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still trivial to check the free wifi CCTVs for the perps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes maybe it's possible for the cops to catalogue the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IP addresses of all the free wifi hotspots in the country,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Doesn?t have to be the country with most perps.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nonsense, people can travel all over the place.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes they can, but few bother to do that when plotting a murder.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I used to regularly use the free WiFi while visiting a town over
>>>>>>>>>>>> 100Km
>>>>>>>>>>>> away,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But few bother to do that just to research a murder.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Oh right we're just talking about lazy murderers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nope, the vast bulk of murderers who are
>>>>>>>>> too stupid to do their research right. If they
>>>>>>>>> had half a clue they would use a vpn.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well they'd just do the searching at home on
>>>>>>>>>> the couch like the woman this thread is about
>>>>>>>>>> probably did, so there's no helping them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your approach wont help the others either.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then launch into action whenever there's a murder,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scouring the metadata for any murder-related
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> searches, and then scrambling cops statewide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to collect CCTV footage from each location.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like I said previously, you have that backwards.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What they actually do is decide that a couple
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of individuals are likely candidates for a particular
>>>>>>>>>>>>> murder and then check which free wifis have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> CCTV of those individuals using those free wifis
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and then check the browsing history on those
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and see if that matches the time those individuals
>>>>>>>>>>>>> were there.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That's even harder!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bullshit it is.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> With your way they've got to check every single free WiFi
>>>>>>>>>>>> site's CCTV in case one of their suspects appears on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Trivial to do with the small country towns you keep mindlessly
>>>>>>>>>>> rabbiting on about which most perps don't actually bother with.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Round and round in circles we go,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yep, you never did have a fucking clue.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> what I have told you you already know.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And everyone knows you don?t have a clue.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The cops don't know where they are if they take the precautions
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That?s bullshit too with so much CCTV around now.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You've just said that it's easy for the cops to know which CCTV
>>>>>>>> footage to check without knowing where a suspect is, because
>>>>>>>> there's so much CCTV to check and that will tell them where the
>>>>>>>> suspect is. You've clearly given up on making any sense.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've described (mainly not letting the phone
>>>>>>>>>> network track them there), so they'd have to
>>>>>>>>>> check CCTV in every country town (and big city).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bullshit they do because hardly anyone heads off to the
>>>>>>>>> other side of the country or the other side of the world
>>>>>>>>> to do their research when they can just use a vpn.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh OK, my plan won't work because nobody will use
>>>>>>>> it in the first place. I can't really argue with that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> However I wouldn't trust the VPN provider as an alternative myself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But then you are the fool too stupid to use a mobile.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It makes more sense to use a vpn that you know
>>>>>>> doesn't keep logs because they have never been
>>>>>>> forced by a court to reveal what is in the logs
>>>>>>> than to fart around moving halfway around the
>>>>>>> fucking country to research how to murder
>>>>>>> someone and not get caught.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And if they have been forced to provide their
>>>>>>> logs, that has to have been announced in the
>>>>>>> court or it wouldn't be acceptable as evidence
>>>>>>> in the trial of that particular perp.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Past performance isn't always an indicator of future
>>>>>> performance, as they say in the superannuation ads.
>>>>>
>>>>> More mindless bullshit. Why would they start logging
>>>>> when they havent done that before. And in fact in
>>>>> many jurisdictions the law requires that they don't
>>>>> keep user data that they may have chosen to before.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Besides, if it's actually the intelligence services
>>>>>> that collect your info from the VPN (by agreement
>>>>>> with its dodgy operators),
>>>>>
>>>>> Why the fuck would those who run the
>>>>> vpn agree to do that ? In spades with
>>>>> foreign intelligence services ?
>>>
>>>> Either they get paid to,
>>>
>>> Why would anyone pay them to do that ?
>>
>> So they can collect the data. Intelligence pays VPN, gets logs.
>> Nothing there that's difficult to understand.
>
> But if spooks do that and they might to keep track
> of terrorist activity etc, they wouldn't be stupid
> enough to tell the cops that they are doing that.


Click here to read the complete article
Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

<s503mr$bn8$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1764&group=aus.legal#1764

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From: new...@woa.com.au (News 2021)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 00:19:39 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: News 2021 - Mon, 12 Apr 2021 00:19 UTC

On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 00:02:00 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:

>>> Yes I know what a VPN is, but if it's just you using it then someone
>>> just has to log the internet traffic at the endpoint.
>> So you choose a company/service tha doesn't do any logging. Problem
>> solved.
>
> So the basis of your argument then is just find a VPN that doesn't log
> you. I'm saying there's no way to be sure a VPN isn't logging you,
> unless you set it up yourself, otherwise you're just trusting someone
> else. In PIA's case, that trust is also of distinctly untrustworthy
> people in my opinion.

A VPN goes between locations. What are you gong to do for the other end?
You provide no workable solution.

On the internet, you have to trust selected people to be on the internet.

>
> Why this needs explaining to you, I have no idea.

I wanted to know the depth of thought and reasons for your 'opinions.

>> What illegal website? How is a website illegaL?
>
> Not worth answering a question that obvious.

Shrug, "illegality" is a flexible term.
Whose "laws" is it illegal under?

> VPN logs you, website logs VPN, put the two together and anyone looking
> at both logs knows what you accessed.

Err, theoretically possible, but highly unlikely, especially f your
computer, the entry VPN portal, the exit VPN portal and the website are
in different legal duristrictions(sp?).

PIA claims that it doesn't match login authorisations to VPN traffic.
So far,at least two courts have accepted their explanations of how their
"logging" works and they can not provide the information requested.

>
> Which VPN companies did you point out? Just dodgy PIA I think.
Why do you consider it dodgy?
I researched it years ago and considered it one of the better. Time and
legal matters have confirmed it.

> How do
> you know they don't keep logs, or allow others real-time access to the
> usage data for them to log, so they can still claim in court not to have
> logs themselves?

I can only come to the conclusion that you do not use VPNs in any
significant form.

Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

<idhv16Fbf0rU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 14:01:34 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Mon, 12 Apr 2021 04:01 UTC

"Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
news:s502v0$rro$1@gioia.aioe.org...
> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:s4tn9d$8qn$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:s4qvq8$mci$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:s4qpda$irh$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:s4mdgt$174f$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:s4lars$p47$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4jpai$1vj3$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4io8p$ndr$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "keithr0" <user@account.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:id2f5dFiqtsU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/04/2021 11:02 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4g16d$1oen$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4e4up$996$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4dqva$11gc$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4dbss$1ujb$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:s4b8q7$16ev$1@gioia.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In aus.computers Rod Speed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you do want to do some untracable browsing,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WiFi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> option, accessed from inside a car parked out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> building where it is offered. You want to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WiFi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interface
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where the MAC address can be changed each
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> potentially be a give-away. Boot from a live
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linux
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distro
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something like Tiny Core Linux which always
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stores
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> user-data
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RAM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and can be easily booted to a clean default
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trouble with that approach is that its trivial
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to work out that it was your car parked there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You want to do it in a small country town where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> traffic cameras following you I suppose. Easy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its not just traffic cameras, our country town
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> street has full CCTV coverage down to the cop
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shop.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure what sort of state surveillance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has been set up where you are,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It isnt state surveillance, it was done by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> council
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> number of physical assaults in the main street at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> night
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but in the country towns I know that CCTV
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be independent for each store,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We have that here too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so the cops would have to ask the corresponding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> store owner to view their footage.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The main street footage all goes to the copshop
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> live.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd call that state surveillance, but it's academic.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many towns don't have anything like that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If they know which store captured you on CCTV,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know you were there anyway, so the battle is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lost.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That?s not the case if they have worked out that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had used the library free wifi to do something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nefarious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and were wanting to work out who it was who did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The only way the system you're describing would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is if there was a Chinese-style police CCTV
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> network
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically tracking your location wherever you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current system would be able to work out who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fine.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nonsense,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure people search things like "how to commit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> murder"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the time. They're not going to track down the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> location
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and then identity of every single searcher in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one will turn out to be their suspect.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its done the other way. Someone ends up dead, they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consider who might well be the one who did it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> starting with those associated with the one who ended
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up dead. They then see who has a record of doing a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> search which looks at the mo that was used etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, exactly, and if the murderer did their research
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at a free WiFi hotspot in the way I described, then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there wouldn't be a record.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Corse there is a record with that free wifi.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not of who'se using it (besides MAC address, which I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggested
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change beforehand).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Except if the cops intensely investigated every single
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IP address from which any relevant browsing took
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> place within the last few days/weeks/months (bound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be many different people), which is silly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, but when they have decided that one or two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals are the likely perp and have no evidence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it was them that they can present in a trial, they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are free to track where their mobiles have been and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then check the records at the various free wifis and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see if they can find any evidence of them searching
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, so turn off your mobile.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Makes it even easier for them to check because
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they only have to check the time when its off.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then just leave it at home - simples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still trivial to check the free wifi CCTVs for the perps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes maybe it's possible for the cops to catalogue the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IP addresses of all the free wifi hotspots in the country,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Doesn?t have to be the country with most perps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nonsense, people can travel all over the place.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes they can, but few bother to do that when plotting a murder.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I used to regularly use the free WiFi while visiting a town
>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 100Km
>>>>>>>>>>>>> away,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But few bother to do that just to research a murder.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Oh right we're just talking about lazy murderers.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nope, the vast bulk of murderers who are
>>>>>>>>>> too stupid to do their research right. If they
>>>>>>>>>> had half a clue they would use a vpn.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well they'd just do the searching at home on
>>>>>>>>>>> the couch like the woman this thread is about
>>>>>>>>>>> probably did, so there's no helping them.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Your approach wont help the others either.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then launch into action whenever there's a murder,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scouring the metadata for any murder-related
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> searches, and then scrambling cops statewide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to collect CCTV footage from each location.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like I said previously, you have that backwards.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What they actually do is decide that a couple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of individuals are likely candidates for a particular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> murder and then check which free wifis have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CCTV of those individuals using those free wifis
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and then check the browsing history on those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and see if that matches the time those individuals
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's even harder!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bullshit it is.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> With your way they've got to check every single free WiFi
>>>>>>>>>>>>> site's CCTV in case one of their suspects appears on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Trivial to do with the small country towns you keep mindlessly
>>>>>>>>>>>> rabbiting on about which most perps don't actually bother with.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Round and round in circles we go,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yep, you never did have a fucking clue.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> what I have told you you already know.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And everyone knows you don?t have a clue.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The cops don't know where they are if they take the precautions
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That?s bullshit too with so much CCTV around now.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You've just said that it's easy for the cops to know which CCTV
>>>>>>>>> footage to check without knowing where a suspect is, because
>>>>>>>>> there's so much CCTV to check and that will tell them where the
>>>>>>>>> suspect is. You've clearly given up on making any sense.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I've described (mainly not letting the phone
>>>>>>>>>>> network track them there), so they'd have to
>>>>>>>>>>> check CCTV in every country town (and big city).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bullshit they do because hardly anyone heads off to the
>>>>>>>>>> other side of the country or the other side of the world
>>>>>>>>>> to do their research when they can just use a vpn.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Oh OK, my plan won't work because nobody will use
>>>>>>>>> it in the first place. I can't really argue with that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> However I wouldn't trust the VPN provider as an alternative
>>>>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But then you are the fool too stupid to use a mobile.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It makes more sense to use a vpn that you know
>>>>>>>> doesn't keep logs because they have never been
>>>>>>>> forced by a court to reveal what is in the logs
>>>>>>>> than to fart around moving halfway around the
>>>>>>>> fucking country to research how to murder
>>>>>>>> someone and not get caught.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And if they have been forced to provide their
>>>>>>>> logs, that has to have been announced in the
>>>>>>>> court or it wouldn't be acceptable as evidence
>>>>>>>> in the trial of that particular perp.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Past performance isn't always an indicator of future
>>>>>>> performance, as they say in the superannuation ads.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More mindless bullshit. Why would they start logging
>>>>>> when they havent done that before. And in fact in
>>>>>> many jurisdictions the law requires that they don't
>>>>>> keep user data that they may have chosen to before.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Besides, if it's actually the intelligence services
>>>>>>> that collect your info from the VPN (by agreement
>>>>>>> with its dodgy operators),
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why the fuck would those who run the
>>>>>> vpn agree to do that ? In spades with
>>>>>> foreign intelligence services ?
>>>>
>>>>> Either they get paid to,
>>>>
>>>> Why would anyone pay them to do that ?
>>>
>>> So they can collect the data. Intelligence pays VPN, gets logs.
>>> Nothing there that's difficult to understand.
>>
>> But if spooks do that and they might to keep track
>> of terrorist activity etc, they wouldn't be stupid
>> enough to tell the cops that they are doing that.
>
> Perhaps,


Click here to read the complete article
Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

<s52lh3$1fih$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1766&group=aus.legal#1766

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!kUZucyQDjuyxDTlPKdqQPQ.user.gioia.aioe.org.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: not...@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 23:36:04 +0000 (UTC)
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 by: Computer Nerd Kev - Mon, 12 Apr 2021 23:36 UTC

In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 00:02:00 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>>>> Yes I know what a VPN is, but if it's just you using it then someone
>>>> just has to log the internet traffic at the endpoint.
>>> So you choose a company/service tha doesn't do any logging. Problem
>>> solved.
>>
>> So the basis of your argument then is just find a VPN that doesn't log
>> you. I'm saying there's no way to be sure a VPN isn't logging you,
>> unless you set it up yourself, otherwise you're just trusting someone
>> else. In PIA's case, that trust is also of distinctly untrustworthy
>> people in my opinion.
>
> A VPN goes between locations. What are you gong to do for the other end?
> You provide no workable solution.

You're in denial that I'm saying what I'm saying or something. I
think the ONLY solution for trusting a VPN provider is if you run
the public VPN service yourself. Just like the other VPN providers,
with lots of other people using it, so at the "other end" there's
a constant and overwhelming volume of traffic that isn't your own.

From an ISP logging, it would look like it was all coming from you
(or the connection at the data centre where your server lives) of
course. But you'd have plausible deniability of any particular site
access event if someone confronted you with it, because it could
have been any of the numerous other people using the VPN at the
same time.

That's a VPN service, now all I suggest is that the only person
you can trust to set it up without logging is yourself. How else
do you know what they really do after all?

I'm repeating myself because you keep repeating the same questions
back at me and unless this is just an attempt at a Rod Speed
parody, I'm assuming you really don't get it.

> On the internet, you have to trust selected people to be on the
> internet.

Yes, to be on it. But you don't HAVE to trust people not to track
you while you're there. It's just the solutions to that are
complicated and expensive. VPNs are an easy option and individuals
can make up their own mind whether they provide a meaningful level
of tracking protection given that element of trust. For just hiding
that you're downloading pirate software VPNs are probably good
enough.

>>> What illegal website? How is a website illegaL?
>>
>> Not worth answering a question that obvious.
>
> Shrug, "illegality" is a flexible term.
> Whose "laws" is it illegal under?

Some website will be illegal everywhere, which is all I was
implying. Drugs, terrorism, kiddie porn, pirate downloads...

But equally I meant to imply any incriminating browsing history.
Eg. Google search records for the woman wondering how murder works.

>> VPN logs you, website logs VPN, put the two together and anyone looking
>> at both logs knows what you accessed.
>
> Err, theoretically possible, but highly unlikely, especially f your
> computer, the entry VPN portal, the exit VPN portal and the website are
> in different legal duristrictions(sp?).

Nope, there are very well known allegiances between international
police and intelligence agencies. Eg. between Australia and the UK,
where PIA's new parent company is legally based.

>> Which VPN companies did you point out? Just dodgy PIA I think.
> Why do you consider it dodgy?

See my first post in this thread. Either you didn't read it (and
the links) or have a very short memory.

>> How do
>> you know they don't keep logs, or allow others real-time access to the
>> usage data for them to log, so they can still claim in court not to have
>> logs themselves?
>
> I can only come to the conclusion that you do not use VPNs in any
> significant form.

Correct, a waste of money because in my opinion the most successful
ones are most likely to be the ones that take money off
intelligence services for handing data over to them. Hence they can
offer the service cheap, and dominate over any honest competition.
No I haven't got proof, but it seems the most likely outcome for an
industry based entirely on trust that runs without any supervision.

Unless maybe you just want to hide your illegal torrents of movies
and software (I don't do that), in which case it might be good
enough. But only because nobody tries that hard to bust you for it
anyway.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

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From: new...@woa.com.au (News 2021)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 05:59:10 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: News 2021 - Tue, 13 Apr 2021 05:59 UTC

On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 23:36:04 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:

> In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 00:02:00 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>>>>> Yes I know what a VPN is, but if it's just you using it then someone
>>>>> just has to log the internet traffic at the endpoint.
>>>> So you choose a company/service tha doesn't do any logging. Problem
>>>> solved.
>>>
>>> So the basis of your argument then is just find a VPN that doesn't log
>>> you. I'm saying there's no way to be sure a VPN isn't logging you,
>>> unless you set it up yourself, otherwise you're just trusting someone
>>> else. In PIA's case, that trust is also of distinctly untrustworthy
>>> people in my opinion.
>>
>> A VPN goes between locations. What are you gong to do for the other
>> end?
>> You provide no workable solution.
>
> You're in denial that I'm saying what I'm saying or something. I think
> the ONLY solution for trusting a VPN provider is if you run the public
> VPN service yourself.

Seriously, are you absolutely nuts. The costs is enormous.

> Just like the other VPN providers,
> with lots of other people using it, so at the "other end" there's a
> constant and overwhelming volume of traffic that isn't your own.
>
> From an ISP logging,

All your ISP logs is that you connected to a VPN service. Nothing more.
yo could be reading the newsa, watching sport, watching a movie, doing
your banking, etc. The ISP doesnt know.

Trivial to have back ground application to provide noise.

Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

<idkthmFt2p9U1@mid.individual.net>

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: use...@account.invalid (keithr0)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 16:54:45 +1000
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 by: keithr0 - Tue, 13 Apr 2021 06:54 UTC

On 13/04/2021 3:59 pm, News 2021 wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 23:36:04 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>
>> In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 00:02:00 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>>>>>> Yes I know what a VPN is, but if it's just you using it then someone
>>>>>> just has to log the internet traffic at the endpoint.
>>>>> So you choose a company/service tha doesn't do any logging. Problem
>>>>> solved.
>>>>
>>>> So the basis of your argument then is just find a VPN that doesn't log
>>>> you. I'm saying there's no way to be sure a VPN isn't logging you,
>>>> unless you set it up yourself, otherwise you're just trusting someone
>>>> else. In PIA's case, that trust is also of distinctly untrustworthy
>>>> people in my opinion.
>>>
>>> A VPN goes between locations. What are you gong to do for the other
>>> end?
>>> You provide no workable solution.
>>
>> You're in denial that I'm saying what I'm saying or something. I think
>> the ONLY solution for trusting a VPN provider is if you run the public
>> VPN service yourself.
>
> Seriously, are you absolutely nuts. The costs is enormous.

Not if you locate it on something like AWS.
>
>> Just like the other VPN providers,
>> with lots of other people using it, so at the "other end" there's a
>> constant and overwhelming volume of traffic that isn't your own.
>>
>> From an ISP logging,
>
> All your ISP logs is that you connected to a VPN service. Nothing more.
> yo could be reading the newsa, watching sport, watching a movie, doing
> your banking, etc. The ISP doesnt know.
>
> Trivial to have back ground application to provide noise.
>

Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

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From: new...@woa.com.au (News 2021)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 11:15:41 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: News 2021 - Tue, 13 Apr 2021 11:15 UTC

On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 16:54:45 +1000, keithr0 scribed:

> On 13/04/2021 3:59 pm, News 2021 wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 23:36:04 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>>
>>> In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 00:02:00 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>>>>>>> Yes I know what a VPN is, but if it's just you using it then
>>>>>>> someone just has to log the internet traffic at the endpoint.
>>>>>> So you choose a company/service tha doesn't do any logging. Problem
>>>>>> solved.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the basis of your argument then is just find a VPN that doesn't
>>>>> log you. I'm saying there's no way to be sure a VPN isn't logging
>>>>> you, unless you set it up yourself, otherwise you're just trusting
>>>>> someone else. In PIA's case, that trust is also of distinctly
>>>>> untrustworthy people in my opinion.
>>>>
>>>> A VPN goes between locations. What are you gong to do for the other
>>>> end?
>>>> You provide no workable solution.
>>>
>>> You're in denial that I'm saying what I'm saying or something. I think
>>> the ONLY solution for trusting a VPN provider is if you run the public
>>> VPN service yourself.
>>
>> Seriously, are you absolutely nuts. The costs is enormous.
>
> Not if you locate it on something like AWS.

Then why use a VPN.

Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

<s558qj$1s14$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: not...@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 23:17:40 +0000 (UTC)
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 by: Computer Nerd Kev - Tue, 13 Apr 2021 23:17 UTC

In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 23:36:04 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>> In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 00:02:00 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>>>>>> Yes I know what a VPN is, but if it's just you using it then someone
>>>>>> just has to log the internet traffic at the endpoint.
>>>>> So you choose a company/service tha doesn't do any logging. Problem
>>>>> solved.
>>>>
>>>> So the basis of your argument then is just find a VPN that doesn't log
>>>> you. I'm saying there's no way to be sure a VPN isn't logging you,
>>>> unless you set it up yourself, otherwise you're just trusting someone
>>>> else. In PIA's case, that trust is also of distinctly untrustworthy
>>>> people in my opinion.
>>>
>>> A VPN goes between locations. What are you gong to do for the other
>>> end?
>>> You provide no workable solution.
>>
>> You're in denial that I'm saying what I'm saying or something. I think
>> the ONLY solution for trusting a VPN provider is if you run the public
>> VPN service yourself.
>
> Seriously,

Yes.

> are you absolutely nuts. The costs is enormous.

That's what it costs to have a VPN that you can really trust. I
guess if you want someone to build you a house you tell them
they're nuts if they won't do it for a couple of grand?

Anyway, charge the other people using it and it might be a viable
business. Though probably not because I think you'd be competing
with other VPN businesses that take extra money for handing over
access to user metadata. But anyone can try (if they can pay the
set-up costs).

>> Just like the other VPN providers,
>> with lots of other people using it, so at the "other end" there's a
>> constant and overwhelming volume of traffic that isn't your own.
>>
>> From an ISP logging,
>
> All your ISP logs is that you connected to a VPN service. Nothing more.
> yo could be reading the newsa, watching sport, watching a movie, doing
> your banking, etc. The ISP doesnt know.

OK, you are just parodying Rod Speed. Repeating the same assertion
endlessly and deliberately not confronting my response that you
can't trust that the VPN itself won't log you or spew out your
access data to someone else (unless you run it yourself).

If this is actually all just a big laugh for you, then well done,
you got me this far.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

<s559tr$q88$3@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1776&group=aus.legal#1776

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: new...@woa.com.au (News 2021)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 23:36:28 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: News 2021 - Tue, 13 Apr 2021 23:36 UTC

On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 23:17:40 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:

> In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 23:36:04 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>>> In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 00:02:00 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>>>>>>> Yes I know what a VPN is, but if it's just you using it then
>>>>>>> someone just has to log the internet traffic at the endpoint.
>>>>>> So you choose a company/service tha doesn't do any logging. Problem
>>>>>> solved.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the basis of your argument then is just find a VPN that doesn't
>>>>> log you. I'm saying there's no way to be sure a VPN isn't logging
>>>>> you, unless you set it up yourself, otherwise you're just trusting
>>>>> someone else. In PIA's case, that trust is also of distinctly
>>>>> untrustworthy people in my opinion.
>>>>
>>>> A VPN goes between locations. What are you gong to do for the other
>>>> end?
>>>> You provide no workable solution.
>>>
>>> You're in denial that I'm saying what I'm saying or something. I think
>>> the ONLY solution for trusting a VPN provider is if you run the public
>>> VPN service yourself.
>>
>> Seriously,
>
> Yes.
>
>> are you absolutely nuts. The costs is enormous.
>
> That's what it costs to have a VPN that you can really trust. I guess if
> you want someone to build you a house you tell them they're nuts if they
> won't do it for a couple of grand?
>
> Anyway, charge the other people using it and it might be a viable
> business.

I have many better things to do. I'll add your suggestion to my
collection of stupid suggestions and idiot ideas that I've received over
the decades.

> Though probably not because I think you'd be competing with
> other VPN businesses that take extra money for handing over access to
> user metadata.

Err, Google,Facebook, etc

> But anyone can try (if they can pay the set-up costs).
>
>>> Just like the other VPN providers,
>>> with lots of other people using it, so at the "other end" there's a
>>> constant and overwhelming volume of traffic that isn't your own.
>>>
>>> From an ISP logging,
>>
>> All your ISP logs is that you connected to a VPN service. Nothing more.
>> yo could be reading the newsa, watching sport, watching a movie, doing
>> your banking, etc. The ISP doesnt know.
>
> OK, you are just parodying Rod Speed. Repeating the same assertion
> endlessly and deliberately not confronting my response that you can't
> trust that the VPN itself won't log you or spew out your access data to
> someone else (unless you run it yourself).

Err, try properly configuring your VPN and then run some tests to see
what, if anything it leeks.

>
> If this is actually all just a big laugh for you, then well done, you
> got me this far.

No, I was looking for useful information, but there was none.

Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

<adfc7gdg6td5dbr2o10d94i7kc5co60k9m@4ax.com>

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From: pet...@gmail.com (Petzl)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 11:09:08 +1000
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 by: Petzl - Wed, 14 Apr 2021 01:09 UTC

On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 14:01:34 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>> You've not explained how it's impossible
>> to use free WiFi in an untraceable way,

Use a VPN their program encrypts EVERYTHING from your computer till
it's decrypted by the VPN server then goes unencrypted to target IP.

The Data back from target IP goes to the VPN server and encrypted,
then back to your device, then decrypted by the VPN program on your
device.

You can also have that encrypted data go through numerous servers
before ending up encrypted by your VPN server, then sent to and then
decrypted on your computer.
The encryption used is considered uncrackable (at least in our
lifetime).
--
Petzl
We know they are lying,
they know they are lying,
they know we know they are lying,
we know they know we know they are lying,
but they are still lying. Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn

Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

<9agc7g5c3a9v54h2ts4iv4gskvouha8vvq@4ax.com>

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From: pet...@gmail.com (Petzl)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 11:25:06 +1000
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 by: Petzl - Wed, 14 Apr 2021 01:25 UTC

On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 05:59:10 -0000 (UTC), News 2021
<news21@woa.com.au> wrote:

>On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 23:36:04 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>
>> In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 00:02:00 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>>>>>> Yes I know what a VPN is, but if it's just you using it then someone
>>>>>> just has to log the internet traffic at the endpoint.
>>>>> So you choose a company/service tha doesn't do any logging. Problem
>>>>> solved.
>>>>
>>>> So the basis of your argument then is just find a VPN that doesn't log
>>>> you. I'm saying there's no way to be sure a VPN isn't logging you,
>>>> unless you set it up yourself, otherwise you're just trusting someone
>>>> else. In PIA's case, that trust is also of distinctly untrustworthy
>>>> people in my opinion.
>>>
>>> A VPN goes between locations. What are you gong to do for the other
>>> end?
>>> You provide no workable solution.
>>
>> You're in denial that I'm saying what I'm saying or something. I think
>> the ONLY solution for trusting a VPN provider is if you run the public
>> VPN service yourself.
>
>Seriously, are you absolutely nuts. The costs is enormous.
>
>> Just like the other VPN providers,
>> with lots of other people using it, so at the "other end" there's a
>> constant and overwhelming volume of traffic that isn't your own.
>>
>> From an ISP logging,
>
>All your ISP logs is that you connected to a VPN service. Nothing more.
>yo could be reading the newsa, watching sport, watching a movie, doing
>your banking, etc. The ISP doesnt know.
>
>Trivial to have back ground application to provide noise.

There are freeware "tackons" that also do not log (do not change
encryption) simple "open relays" that you can send your VPN ensrypted
date through, then back to you. Problems are they may be not in your
demographic IP range.

This stops your ISP knowing you are connected to a VPN.
As webpages now have lists of VPN servers and blocking you
--
Petzl
We know they are lying,
they know they are lying,
they know we know they are lying,
we know they know we know they are lying,
but they are still lying. Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn

Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

<s563oi$983$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1784&group=aus.legal#1784

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From: max...@val.morgan (Max)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 16:57:22 +1000
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 by: Max - Wed, 14 Apr 2021 06:57 UTC

On 14/04/2021 9:17 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 23:36:04 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>>> In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 00:02:00 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>>>>>>> Yes I know what a VPN is, but if it's just you using it then someone
>>>>>>> just has to log the internet traffic at the endpoint.
>>>>>> So you choose a company/service tha doesn't do any logging. Problem
>>>>>> solved.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the basis of your argument then is just find a VPN that doesn't log
>>>>> you. I'm saying there's no way to be sure a VPN isn't logging you,
>>>>> unless you set it up yourself, otherwise you're just trusting someone
>>>>> else. In PIA's case, that trust is also of distinctly untrustworthy
>>>>> people in my opinion.
>>>>
>>>> A VPN goes between locations. What are you gong to do for the other
>>>> end?
>>>> You provide no workable solution.
>>>
>>> You're in denial that I'm saying what I'm saying or something. I think
>>> the ONLY solution for trusting a VPN provider is if you run the public
>>> VPN service yourself.
>>
>> Seriously,
>
> Yes.
>
>> are you absolutely nuts. The costs is enormous.
>
> That's what it costs to have a VPN that you can really trust. I
> guess if you want someone to build you a house you tell them
> they're nuts if they won't do it for a couple of grand?
>
> Anyway, charge the other people using it and it might be a viable
> business. Though probably not because I think you'd be competing
> with other VPN businesses that take extra money for handing over
> access to user metadata. But anyone can try (if they can pay the
> set-up costs).
>

If you made your own VPN, wouldn't you have to keep logs?

>>> Just like the other VPN providers,
>>> with lots of other people using it, so at the "other end" there's a
>>> constant and overwhelming volume of traffic that isn't your own.
>>>
>>> From an ISP logging,
>>
>> All your ISP logs is that you connected to a VPN service. Nothing more.
>> yo could be reading the newsa, watching sport, watching a movie, doing
>> your banking, etc. The ISP doesnt know.
>
> OK, you are just parodying Rod Speed. Repeating the same assertion
> endlessly and deliberately not confronting my response that you
> can't trust that the VPN itself won't log you or spew out your
> access data to someone else (unless you run it yourself).
>
> If this is actually all just a big laugh for you, then well done,
> you got me this far.
>

Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

<idnjesFemtsU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1785&group=aus.legal#1785

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 17:20:52 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Wed, 14 Apr 2021 07:20 UTC

"Max" <max@val.morgan> wrote in message news:s563oi$983$1@gioia.aioe.org...
> On 14/04/2021 9:17 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 23:36:04 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>>>> In aus.computers News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 00:02:00 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev scribed:
>>>>>>>> Yes I know what a VPN is, but if it's just you using it then
>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>> just has to log the internet traffic at the endpoint.
>>>>>>> So you choose a company/service tha doesn't do any logging. Problem
>>>>>>> solved.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So the basis of your argument then is just find a VPN that doesn't
>>>>>> log
>>>>>> you. I'm saying there's no way to be sure a VPN isn't logging you,
>>>>>> unless you set it up yourself, otherwise you're just trusting someone
>>>>>> else. In PIA's case, that trust is also of distinctly untrustworthy
>>>>>> people in my opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>> A VPN goes between locations. What are you gong to do for the other
>>>>> end?
>>>>> You provide no workable solution.
>>>>
>>>> You're in denial that I'm saying what I'm saying or something. I think
>>>> the ONLY solution for trusting a VPN provider is if you run the public
>>>> VPN service yourself.
>>>
>>> Seriously,
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>> are you absolutely nuts. The costs is enormous.
>>
>> That's what it costs to have a VPN that you can really trust. I
>> guess if you want someone to build you a house you tell them
>> they're nuts if they won't do it for a couple of grand?
>>
>> Anyway, charge the other people using it and it might be a viable
>> business. Though probably not because I think you'd be competing
>> with other VPN businesses that take extra money for handing over
>> access to user metadata. But anyone can try (if they can pay the
>> set-up costs).

> If you made your own VPN, wouldn't you have to keep logs?

Nope.

>>>> Just like the other VPN providers,
>>>> with lots of other people using it, so at the "other end" there's a
>>>> constant and overwhelming volume of traffic that isn't your own.
>>>>
>>>> From an ISP logging,
>>>
>>> All your ISP logs is that you connected to a VPN service. Nothing more.
>>> yo could be reading the newsa, watching sport, watching a movie, doing
>>> your banking, etc. The ISP doesnt know.
>>
>> OK, you are just parodying Rod Speed. Repeating the same assertion
>> endlessly and deliberately not confronting my response that you
>> can't trust that the VPN itself won't log you or spew out your
>> access data to someone else (unless you run it yourself).
>>
>> If this is actually all just a big laugh for you, then well done,
>> you got me this far.
>>
>

Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

<s56dtq$854$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1786&group=aus.legal#1786

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From: new...@woa.com.au (News 2021)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 09:50:50 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: News 2021 - Wed, 14 Apr 2021 09:50 UTC

On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 16:57:22 +1000, Max scribed:

>>
> If you made your own VPN, wouldn't you have to keep logs?

No, but you need to make sure it doesn't by default.
AFAIK, logging is only required by the major RSPs.

Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

<s57t2l$1um0$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: not...@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 23:15:34 +0000 (UTC)
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 by: Computer Nerd Kev - Wed, 14 Apr 2021 23:15 UTC

In aus.computers Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 14:01:34 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> You've not explained how it's impossible
>>> to use free WiFi in an untraceable way,
>
> Use a VPN their program encrypts EVERYTHING from your computer till
> it's decrypted by the VPN server then goes unencrypted to target IP.

VPN,VPN,VPN. Everyone's just repeating this without answering how
you know a VPN's actually honest about not logging/sharing your
data. Except for quoting court cases which only say a VPN didn't
keep the logs themselves, but another organisation might be getting
fed the metadata by the VPN and logging it separately.

> The Data back from target IP goes to the VPN server and encrypted,
> then back to your device, then decrypted by the VPN program on your
> device.
>
> You can also have that encrypted data go through numerous servers
> before ending up encrypted by your VPN server, then sent to and then
> decrypted on your computer.
> The encryption used is considered uncrackable (at least in our
> lifetime).

The encryption used is irrelevent, all you're doing is replacing
your ISP's capacity to log you with the VPN's capacity to log you.
The only reason you're doing it is because the VPN _says_ they
don't, but how do you know whether to believe them or not?

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court

<lnif7g56erptc36kee0cs4qlbltjips1ib@4ax.com>

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From: pet...@gmail.com (Petzl)
Newsgroups: aus.legal,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Woman's alleged search history exposed in court
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2021 15:14:51 +1000
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 by: Petzl - Thu, 15 Apr 2021 05:14 UTC

On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 23:15:34 +0000 (UTC), not@telling.you.invalid
(Computer Nerd Kev) wrote:

>In aus.computers Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 14:01:34 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> You've not explained how it's impossible
>>>> to use free WiFi in an untraceable way,
>>
>> Use a VPN their program encrypts EVERYTHING from your computer till
>> it's decrypted by the VPN server then goes unencrypted to target IP.
>
>VPN,VPN,VPN. Everyone's just repeating this without answering how
>you know a VPN's actually honest about not logging/sharing your
>data. Except for quoting court cases which only say a VPN didn't
>keep the logs themselves, but another organisation might be getting
>fed the metadata by the VPN and logging it separately.
>
>> The Data back from target IP goes to the VPN server and encrypted,
>> then back to your device, then decrypted by the VPN program on your
>> device.
>>
>> You can also have that encrypted data go through numerous servers
>> before ending up encrypted by your VPN server, then sent to and then
>> decrypted on your computer.
>> The encryption used is considered uncrackable (at least in our
>> lifetime).
>
>The encryption used is irrelevent, all you're doing is replacing
>your ISP's capacity to log you with the VPN's capacity to log you.
>The only reason you're doing it is because the VPN _says_ they
>don't, but how do you know whether to believe them or not?

Court records my VPN (PIA) would not keep logs when the FBI tied to.
German VPN's are required by their law not to keep records
No one has ever shown me when any VPN has not kept logs?
--
Petzl
We know they are lying,
they know they are lying,
they know we know they are lying,
we know they know we know they are lying,
but they are still lying. Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn

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