My home router's DHCP is for some reason this evening allocating the
router's IP address as the DNS server, which obviously doesn't work.

I have manually on my computer used the Google public DNS server
(8.8.8.8) as a work-around.

How does the router's DHCP usually know what the DNS server is – does it
get it from the ISP?

Is there something wrong my router is there something wrong with my ISP?

On Wed, 08 Sep 2021 20:27:57 +1000, Max wrote:

> My home router's DHCP is for some reason this evening allocating the
> router's IP address as the DNS server, which obviously doesn't work.
>
> I have manually on my computer used the Google public DNS server
> (8.8.8.8) as a work-around.
>
> How does the router's DHCP usually know what the DNS server is – does it
> get it from the ISP?
>
> Is there something wrong my router is there something wrong with my ISP?

Usually, that works, since the router (modem) is assigned DNS servers by
your ISP, with most routers acting as dns proxies, any PC getting its IP
lease from dhcp on your router will get an IP and your routers IP as
gateway and DNS, your DNS reqs goto router which then proxies the request
to your ISP's DNS.

Most routers also allow you to manually set the DNS servers to use.
I use my own caching dns server, which my router knows about, my PCs have
that as primary nameserver, secondary is a telstra dns server

On 8/09/2021 10:32 pm, noel wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Sep 2021 20:27:57 +1000, Max wrote:
>
>> My home router's DHCP is for some reason this evening allocating the
>> router's IP address as the DNS server, which obviously doesn't work.
>>
>> I have manually on my computer used the Google public DNS server
>> (8.8.8.8) as a work-around.
>>
>> How does the router's DHCP usually know what the DNS server is – does it
>> get it from the ISP?
>>
>> Is there something wrong my router is there something wrong with my ISP?
>
> Usually, that works, since the router (modem) is assigned DNS servers by
> your ISP, with most routers acting as dns proxies, any PC getting its IP
> lease from dhcp on your router will get an IP and your routers IP as
> gateway and DNS, your DNS reqs goto router which then proxies the request
> to your ISP's DNS.
>
> Most routers also allow you to manually set the DNS servers to use.
> I use my own caching dns server, which my router knows about, my PCs have
> that as primary nameserver, secondary is a telstra dns server
>

Does the caching dns server work faster than using the ISP one ?

On Thu, 09 Sep 2021 09:42:15 +1000, Max wrote:

> On 8/09/2021 10:32 pm, noel wrote:
>> On Wed, 08 Sep 2021 20:27:57 +1000, Max wrote:
>>
>>> My home router's DHCP is for some reason this evening allocating the
>>> router's IP address as the DNS server, which obviously doesn't work.
>>>
>>> I have manually on my computer used the Google public DNS server
>>> (8.8.8.8) as a work-around.
>>>
>>> How does the router's DHCP usually know what the DNS server is – does
>>> it get it from the ISP?
>>>
>>> Is there something wrong my router is there something wrong with my
>>> ISP?
>>
>> Usually, that works, since the router (modem) is assigned DNS servers
>> by your ISP, with most routers acting as dns proxies, any PC getting
>> its IP lease from dhcp on your router will get an IP and your routers
>> IP as gateway and DNS, your DNS reqs goto router which then proxies the
>> request to your ISP's DNS.
>>
>> Most routers also allow you to manually set the DNS servers to use.
>> I use my own caching dns server, which my router knows about, my PCs
>> have that as primary nameserver, secondary is a telstra dns server
>>
>>
> Does the caching dns server work faster than using the ISP one ?

It depends, if the site is cached, yes it will respond sub 1ms, but
looking up a site initially might be 100ms or so slower - thats if you
have not been to that site, as for regular visited sites in your cache
its way faster, the popular sites like facebook - that I dont use, would
be faster on ISP DNS since it would be cached and as it wont be cached on
mine, but twitter, youtube, will always be faster since I'm regularly on
them.

Would you notice the slow down? Most of the time probably not, you'd need
a benchmark program to see the real world differences, you can slightly
improce that by having your local cache server forward to your ISP's.

Last time I ran a namedbench test was when I moved from tpg to
aussiebroadband, results were fairly similar for both ISP's, on non
visited/cached sites tehy were faster, but on often used sites they were
dramtically slower.

If your a windows user, there is a dns benchmark program, can't recall
its name bity I think GRC put it out

On 9/09/2021 2:58 pm, noel wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Sep 2021 09:42:15 +1000, Max wrote:
>
>> On 8/09/2021 10:32 pm, noel wrote:
>>> On Wed, 08 Sep 2021 20:27:57 +1000, Max wrote:
>>>
>>>> My home router's DHCP is for some reason this evening allocating the
>>>> router's IP address as the DNS server, which obviously doesn't work.
>>>>
>>>> I have manually on my computer used the Google public DNS server
>>>> (8.8.8.8) as a work-around.
>>>>
>>>> How does the router's DHCP usually know what the DNS server is – does
>>>> it get it from the ISP?
>>>>
>>>> Is there something wrong my router is there something wrong with my
>>>> ISP?
>>>
>>> Usually, that works, since the router (modem) is assigned DNS servers
>>> by your ISP, with most routers acting as dns proxies, any PC getting
>>> its IP lease from dhcp on your router will get an IP and your routers
>>> IP as gateway and DNS, your DNS reqs goto router which then proxies the
>>> request to your ISP's DNS.
>>>
>>> Most routers also allow you to manually set the DNS servers to use.
>>> I use my own caching dns server, which my router knows about, my PCs
>>> have that as primary nameserver, secondary is a telstra dns server
>>>
>>>
>> Does the caching dns server work faster than using the ISP one ?
>
> It depends, if the site is cached, yes it will respond sub 1ms, but
> looking up a site initially might be 100ms or so slower - thats if you
> have not been to that site, as for regular visited sites in your cache
> its way faster, the popular sites like facebook - that I dont use, would
> be faster on ISP DNS since it would be cached and as it wont be cached on
> mine, but twitter, youtube, will always be faster since I'm regularly on
> them.
>
> Would you notice the slow down? Most of the time probably not, you'd need
> a benchmark program to see the real world differences, you can slightly
> improce that by having your local cache server forward to your ISP's.
>
> Last time I ran a namedbench test was when I moved from tpg to
> aussiebroadband, results were fairly similar for both ISP's, on non
> visited/cached sites tehy were faster, but on often used sites they were
> dramtically slower.
>
> If your a windows user, there is a dns benchmark program, can't recall
> its name bity I think GRC put it out
>
My router points at a Raspberry Pi Zero running Pi Hole as the DNS
proxy. That gets rid of adverts and other nuisances, it also encrypts
the DNS requests and uses Cloudflare which seems to be about the fastest
DNS resolver available. If the Pi has an address cached it's the fastest
thing around, if not there is a small penalty for the extra step.

Actually, since most machines on the network have static addresses, most
point straight at the PI for DNS and cut out the middle man.

On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 15:54:16 +1000, keithr0 wrote:

> On 9/09/2021 2:58 pm, noel wrote:
>> On Thu, 09 Sep 2021 09:42:15 +1000, Max wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/09/2021 10:32 pm, noel wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 08 Sep 2021 20:27:57 +1000, Max wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My home router's DHCP is for some reason this evening allocating the
>>>>> router's IP address as the DNS server, which obviously doesn't work.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have manually on my computer used the Google public DNS server
>>>>> (8.8.8.8) as a work-around.
>>>>>
>>>>> How does the router's DHCP usually know what the DNS server is –
>>>>> does it get it from the ISP?
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there something wrong my router is there something wrong with my
>>>>> ISP?
>>>>
>>>> Usually, that works, since the router (modem) is assigned DNS servers
>>>> by your ISP, with most routers acting as dns proxies, any PC getting
>>>> its IP lease from dhcp on your router will get an IP and your routers
>>>> IP as gateway and DNS, your DNS reqs goto router which then proxies
>>>> the request to your ISP's DNS.
>>>>
>>>> Most routers also allow you to manually set the DNS servers to use.
>>>> I use my own caching dns server, which my router knows about, my PCs
>>>> have that as primary nameserver, secondary is a telstra dns server
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Does the caching dns server work faster than using the ISP one ?
>>
>> It depends, if the site is cached, yes it will respond sub 1ms, but
>> looking up a site initially might be 100ms or so slower - thats if you
>> have not been to that site, as for regular visited sites in your cache
>> its way faster, the popular sites like facebook - that I dont use,
>> would be faster on ISP DNS since it would be cached and as it wont be
>> cached on mine, but twitter, youtube, will always be faster since I'm
>> regularly on them.
>>
>> Would you notice the slow down? Most of the time probably not, you'd
>> need a benchmark program to see the real world differences, you can
>> slightly improce that by having your local cache server forward to your
>> ISP's.
>>
>> Last time I ran a namedbench test was when I moved from tpg to
>> aussiebroadband, results were fairly similar for both ISP's, on non
>> visited/cached sites tehy were faster, but on often used sites they
>> were dramtically slower.
>>
>> If your a windows user, there is a dns benchmark program, can't recall
>> its name bity I think GRC put it out
>>
> My router points at a Raspberry Pi Zero running Pi Hole as the DNS
> proxy. That gets rid of adverts and other nuisances, it also encrypts
> the DNS requests and uses Cloudflare which seems to be about the fastest
> DNS resolver available. If the Pi has an address cached it's the fastest
> thing around, if not there is a small penalty for the extra step.
>
> Actually, since most machines on the network have static addresses, most
> point straight at the PI for DNS and cut out the middle man.

Yep :)

Though its pretty pointless running encrypted lookups here, no aussie ISP
logs your DNS traffic (the metadata retention laws even exclude it) they
dont need to, netflow shows where your going so if they want to know they
look at that data, and if one is so paranoid to be using vpn as well, it
wont matter either.

I also find it dangerous using things like doh and providers like
cloudfare, google et al, since they can manipulate your answers to what
they want, and track you - yet cloudfares own blog introducing 1.1.1.1
said they are logging your requests, keeping them for one month, still
touting it as privacy... funny... you dont trust aussie isps yet trust
american isps who do and can log your requests without warrant or
overswight... more funny

I also run an "empty" zone list with those pesky add zones - same thing
as pihole, I've done it for a very long time.

On 10/09/2021 5:12 pm, noel wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 15:54:16 +1000, keithr0 wrote:
>
>> On 9/09/2021 2:58 pm, noel wrote:
>>> On Thu, 09 Sep 2021 09:42:15 +1000, Max wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/09/2021 10:32 pm, noel wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 08 Sep 2021 20:27:57 +1000, Max wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> My home router's DHCP is for some reason this evening allocating the
>>>>>> router's IP address as the DNS server, which obviously doesn't work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have manually on my computer used the Google public DNS server
>>>>>> (8.8.8.8) as a work-around.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How does the router's DHCP usually know what the DNS server is –
>>>>>> does it get it from the ISP?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there something wrong my router is there something wrong with my
>>>>>> ISP?
>>>>>
>>>>> Usually, that works, since the router (modem) is assigned DNS servers
>>>>> by your ISP, with most routers acting as dns proxies, any PC getting
>>>>> its IP lease from dhcp on your router will get an IP and your routers
>>>>> IP as gateway and DNS, your DNS reqs goto router which then proxies
>>>>> the request to your ISP's DNS.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most routers also allow you to manually set the DNS servers to use.
>>>>> I use my own caching dns server, which my router knows about, my PCs
>>>>> have that as primary nameserver, secondary is a telstra dns server
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Does the caching dns server work faster than using the ISP one ?
>>>
>>> It depends, if the site is cached, yes it will respond sub 1ms, but
>>> looking up a site initially might be 100ms or so slower - thats if you
>>> have not been to that site, as for regular visited sites in your cache
>>> its way faster, the popular sites like facebook - that I dont use,
>>> would be faster on ISP DNS since it would be cached and as it wont be
>>> cached on mine, but twitter, youtube, will always be faster since I'm
>>> regularly on them.
>>>
>>> Would you notice the slow down? Most of the time probably not, you'd
>>> need a benchmark program to see the real world differences, you can
>>> slightly improce that by having your local cache server forward to your
>>> ISP's.
>>>
>>> Last time I ran a namedbench test was when I moved from tpg to
>>> aussiebroadband, results were fairly similar for both ISP's, on non
>>> visited/cached sites tehy were faster, but on often used sites they
>>> were dramtically slower.
>>>
>>> If your a windows user, there is a dns benchmark program, can't recall
>>> its name bity I think GRC put it out
>>>
>> My router points at a Raspberry Pi Zero running Pi Hole as the DNS
>> proxy. That gets rid of adverts and other nuisances, it also encrypts
>> the DNS requests and uses Cloudflare which seems to be about the fastest
>> DNS resolver available. If the Pi has an address cached it's the fastest
>> thing around, if not there is a small penalty for the extra step.
>>
>> Actually, since most machines on the network have static addresses, most
>> point straight at the PI for DNS and cut out the middle man.
>
> Yep :)
>
> Though its pretty pointless running encrypted lookups here, no aussie ISP
> logs your DNS traffic (the metadata retention laws even exclude it) they
> dont need to, netflow shows where your going so if they want to know they
> look at that data, and if one is so paranoid to be using vpn as well, it
> wont matter either.
>
> I also find it dangerous using things like doh and providers like
> cloudfare, google et al, since they can manipulate your answers to what
> they want, and track you - yet cloudfares own blog introducing 1.1.1.1
> said they are logging your requests, keeping them for one month, still
> touting it as privacy... funny... you dont trust aussie isps yet trust
> american isps who do and can log your requests without warrant or
> overswight... more funny

I'd rather Cloudflare saw my request than Google and I've no idea where
request sent through my ISP end up.

> I also run an "empty" zone list with those pesky add zones - same thing
> as pihole, I've done it for a very long time.

One thing that I like about Pi Hole is that it logs the DNS request so
that you can see if any of your devices are talking to places that you
would rather that they didn't.
>

On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 17:42:49 +1000, keithr0 wrote:

>> I also find it dangerous using things like doh and providers like
>> cloudfare, google et al, since they can manipulate your answers to what
>> they want, and track you - yet cloudfares own blog introducing 1.1.1.1
>> said they are logging your requests, keeping them for one month, still
>> touting it as privacy... funny... you dont trust aussie isps yet trust
>> american isps who do and can log your requests without warrant or
>> overswight... more funny
>
> I'd rather Cloudflare saw my request than Google and I've no idea where
> request sent through my ISP end up.
>

I'd rather they go direct to root servers and follow the chain not going
through any third party dns services, thats whole point of running own
cache server - same applies for oz isp's - note: I am very aware some USA
isp's and those from totalatarian govt run countries do log dns requests,
but despite scomo trying his best, we are not quite in that category -yet.

>> I also run an "empty" zone list with those pesky add zones - same thing
>> as pihole, I've done it for a very long time.
>
> One thing that I like about Pi Hole is that it logs the DNS request so
> that you can see if any of your devices are talking to places that you
> would rather that they didn't.
>>

lol, i trust those who i let on my network so dont need to spy on them,
logging in bind is easy, if one CBF'd, but I cant be :)

On 13/09/2021 12:02 am, noel wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 17:42:49 +1000, keithr0 wrote:
>
>>> I also find it dangerous using things like doh and providers like
>>> cloudfare, google et al, since they can manipulate your answers to what
>>> they want, and track you - yet cloudfares own blog introducing 1.1.1.1
>>> said they are logging your requests, keeping them for one month, still
>>> touting it as privacy... funny... you dont trust aussie isps yet trust
>>> american isps who do and can log your requests without warrant or
>>> overswight... more funny
>>
>> I'd rather Cloudflare saw my request than Google and I've no idea where
>> request sent through my ISP end up.
>>
>
> I'd rather they go direct to root servers and follow the chain not going
> through any third party dns services, thats whole point of running own
> cache server - same applies for oz isp's - note: I am very aware some USA
> isp's and those from totalatarian govt run countries do log dns requests,
> but despite scomo trying his best, we are not quite in that category -yet.
>

Would that matter if you are using a no-log VPN ?

On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 16:13:32 +1000, Max wrote:

> On 13/09/2021 12:02 am, noel wrote:
>> On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 17:42:49 +1000, keithr0 wrote:
>>
>>>> I also find it dangerous using things like doh and providers like
>>>> cloudfare, google et al, since they can manipulate your answers to
>>>> what they want, and track you - yet cloudfares own blog introducing
>>>> 1.1.1.1 said they are logging your requests, keeping them for one
>>>> month, still touting it as privacy... funny... you dont trust aussie
>>>> isps yet trust american isps who do and can log your requests without
>>>> warrant or overswight... more funny
>>>
>>> I'd rather Cloudflare saw my request than Google and I've no idea
>>> where request sent through my ISP end up.
>>>
>>>
>> I'd rather they go direct to root servers and follow the chain not
>> going through any third party dns services, thats whole point of
>> running own cache server - same applies for oz isp's - note: I am very
>> aware some USA isp's and those from totalatarian govt run countries do
>> log dns requests, but despite scomo trying his best, we are not quite
>> in that category -yet.
>>
>>
> Would that matter if you are using a no-log VPN ?

dont assume any vpn wont be logging, we've seen it before time and time
again, even from nord who left a box exposed a year or so ago they had
logs :)