Haseeb Hameed

M Ins NO R HS Ave

FC 84 141 13 4175 122 32.61
Test 7 13 1 411 82 34.25

Rory Burns
FC 157 273 15 10727 219*41.57

Test 30 55 0 1725 133 31.36
If both players have low scoring matches in the game being played the y could both have Test averages below 30

RH

The dibbly-dobbly medium pace of County Cricket doesn't produce enough batsmen capable of handling the fast pace of Test match cricket.

On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 11:51:18 AM UTC, RH wrote:
> Haseeb Hameed
>
> M Ins NO R HS Ave
>
> FC 84 141 13 4175 122 32.61
> Test 7 13 1 411 82 34.25
>
> Rory Burns
> FC 157 273 15 10727 219*41.57
>
> Test 30 55 0 1725 133 31.36
> If both players have low scoring matches in the game being played the y could both have Test averages below 30
>
> RH

If the two score ducks in the second innings Burns will average 30 .00 and Hameed 30.26

RH

On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 12:55:33 PM UTC, jzfre...@gmail.com wrote:
> The dibbly-dobbly medium pace of County Cricket doesn't produce enough batsmen capable of handling the fast pace of Test match cricket.

While its true that Darren Stevens is amazingly successful at his age,
as RH will surely point out, England chose to leave out the most successful county
openers from last summer and not include them in the Lions squad.

Plus all our fast bowlers are either crocked injured or too fragile to risk. But the
ones that wernt, like Garton and Milnes, also didnt get picked for the Lions.

On another forum theres a suggestion that if Hammed/Burns dont make a score
in the 2nd [which might be 2morow] they should both be dropped for Crawley and
Bairstow!

mike

On Saturday, December 18, 2021 at 1:06:50 AM UTC+10, mike wrote:
> While its true that Darren Stevens is amazingly successful at his age,

He's successful in County Cricket. Which is my point.

In message <b5fe97cd-56b2-4f06-8190-141a27a304a2n@googlegroups.com>,
jack fredricks <jzfredricks@gmail.com> writes
>On Saturday, December 18, 2021 at 1:06:50 AM UTC+10, mike wrote:
>> While its true that Darren Stevens is amazingly successful at his age,
>
>He's successful in County Cricket. Which is my point.

That a 45-year-old can be successful in county cricket doesn't
necessarily prove anything. When Jack Hobbs scored his last Test hundred
against Australia, he was 46 years 82 days old.
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

On Saturday, December 18, 2021 at 6:30:46 AM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
> In message <b5fe97cd-56b2-4f06...@googlegroups.com>,
> jack fredricks <jzfre...@gmail.com> writes
> >On Saturday, December 18, 2021 at 1:06:50 AM UTC+10, mike wrote:
> >> While its true that Darren Stevens is amazingly successful at his age,
> >
> >He's successful in County Cricket. Which is my point.
> That a 45-year-old can be successful in county cricket doesn't
> necessarily prove anything. When Jack Hobbs scored his last Test hundred
> against Australia, he was 46 years 82 days old.

Tell me an objective way to judge the quality of players produced by County Cricket.
The only thing I can think of is the success of the England Test team.
Anything else?

Whilst I do have issues with the age of many CC players, that's not my beef with Stevens.
My beef is CC's love of dibbly dobbly medium pacers.
They do close-to-nothing to help batsmen learn their trade in preparation for Tests.

On 17/12/2021 12:59, RH wrote:
> On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 11:51:18 AM UTC, RH wrote:
>> Haseeb Hameed
>>
>> M Ins NO R HS Ave
>>
>> FC 84 141 13 4175 122 32.61
>> Test 7 13 1 411 82 34.25
>>
>> Rory Burns
>> FC 157 273 15 10727 219*41.57
>>
>> Test 30 55 0 1725 133 31.36
>> If both players have low scoring matches in the game being played the y could both have Test averages below 30
>
> If the two score ducks in the second innings Burns will average 30 .00

Obviously not correct, because he made 4 in the first and 1729 clearly
isn't divisible by 30. He would average 30.33

and Hameed 30.26

29.79

Both more or less on a par with, or better than, every other England
opener who has made his debut in the last 15 years, apart from Root.

The highest averages of the 14 others in the group when opening (min 3
innings) are Denly 31.33, Compton 31.12 and Robson 30.54. The rest are
below 29.

--
David North

On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 05:59:59 +0000, David North
<nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>On 17/12/2021 12:59, RH wrote:
>> On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 11:51:18 AM UTC, RH wrote:
>>> Haseeb Hameed
>>>
>>> M Ins NO R HS Ave
>>>
>>> FC 84 141 13 4175 122 32.61
>>> Test 7 13 1 411 82 34.25
>>>
>>> Rory Burns
>>> FC 157 273 15 10727 219*41.57
>>>
>>> Test 30 55 0 1725 133 31.36
>>> If both players have low scoring matches in the game being played the y could both have Test averages below 30
>>
>> If the two score ducks in the second innings Burns will average 30 .00
>
>Obviously not correct, because he made 4 in the first and 1729 clearly
>isn't divisible by 30. He would average 30.33
>
> and Hameed 30.26
>
>29.79
>
>Both more or less on a par with, or better than, every other England
>opener who has made his debut in the last 15 years, apart from Root.
>
>The highest averages of the 14 others in the group when opening (min 3
>innings) are Denly 31.33, Compton 31.12 and Robson 30.54. The rest are
>below 29.

Is that 14 different opening batsmen in 15 years?
England's batting problems at the top end might by no more complex
than player nerves because of selector/supporter/media impatience.
Maybe the prospective 1,2 and 3s can only see the cricket version of
the Bermuda triangle.

max.it

--
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On 18/12/2021 13:35, max.it wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 05:59:59 +0000, David North
> <nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 17/12/2021 12:59, RH wrote:
>>> On Friday, December 17, 2021 at 11:51:18 AM UTC, RH wrote:
>>>> Haseeb Hameed
>>>>
>>>> M Ins NO R HS Ave
>>>>
>>>> FC 84 141 13 4175 122 32.61
>>>> Test 7 13 1 411 82 34.25
>>>>
>>>> Rory Burns
>>>> FC 157 273 15 10727 219*41.57
>>>>
>>>> Test 30 55 0 1725 133 31.36
>>>> If both players have low scoring matches in the game being played the y could both have Test averages below 30
>>>
>>> If the two score ducks in the second innings Burns will average 30 .00
>>
>> Obviously not correct, because he made 4 in the first and 1729 clearly
>> isn't divisible by 30. He would average 30.33
>>
>> and Hameed 30.26
>>
>> 29.79
>>
>> Both more or less on a par with, or better than, every other England
>> opener who has made his debut in the last 15 years, apart from Root.
>>
>> The highest averages of the 14 others in the group when opening (min 3
>> innings) are Denly 31.33, Compton 31.12 and Robson 30.54. The rest are
>> below 29.
>
> Is that 14 different opening batsmen in 15 years?

Including Root, Burns and Hameed, it's 17 different batsmen who have
played at least 3 innings as opener (that was to exclude Stokes, who has
one innings of 78* as opener, and Leach, 92 & 1, although it also
excludes Buttler, 0 & 4) and made their debut in the last 15 years,
which excludes Vaughan, Strauss and Cook, who have opened with that
period. Pietersen (one innings of 12) is excluded on both counts.

> England's batting problems at the top end might by no more complex
> than player nerves because of selector/supporter/media impatience.
> Maybe the prospective 1,2 and 3s can only see the cricket version of
> the Bermuda triangle.

5 of the 17 had 20+ innings as opener, and another 6 had 20+ including
other positions, so they can't complain too much about impatience; nor,
yet, can Hameed.

That leaves 5 who had fewer than 20 innings and were dropped: Carberry,
Robson, Lyth, Duckett and Roy, of whom only Duckett had fewer than 10
innings in total (7).

--
David North

In message <j26ftgFa873U1@mid.individual.net>, David North
<nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>On 18/12/2021 13:35, max.it wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 05:59:59 +0000, David North
>> <nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
>>>
>>> Both more or less on a par with, or better than, every other England
>>> opener who has made his debut in the last 15 years, apart from Root.
>>>
>>> The highest averages of the 14 others in the group when opening (min 3
>>> innings) are Denly 31.33, Compton 31.12 and Robson 30.54. The rest are
>>> below 29.
>> Is that 14 different opening batsmen in 15 years?
>
>Including Root, Burns and Hameed, it's 17 different batsmen who have
>played at least 3 innings as opener (that was to exclude Stokes, who
>has one innings of 78* as opener, and Leach, 92 & 1, although it also
>excludes Buttler, 0 & 4) and made their debut in the last 15 years,
>which excludes Vaughan, Strauss and Cook, who have opened with that
>period. Pietersen (one innings of 12) is excluded on both counts.
<snip>

So excluding Stokes, Leach has the best average as opener of anyone
debuting post Strauss and Cook, with 46.5. Clearly he should open in the
third Test. (I hope I don't need to include a smiley to indicate I'm not
serious.)
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 18:33:16 +0000, John Hall
<john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <j26ftgFa873U1@mid.individual.net>, David North
><nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>>On 18/12/2021 13:35, max.it wrote:
>>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 05:59:59 +0000, David North
>>> <nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
><snip>
>>>>
>>>> Both more or less on a par with, or better than, every other England
>>>> opener who has made his debut in the last 15 years, apart from Root.
>>>>
>>>> The highest averages of the 14 others in the group when opening (min 3
>>>> innings) are Denly 31.33, Compton 31.12 and Robson 30.54. The rest are
>>>> below 29.
>>> Is that 14 different opening batsmen in 15 years?
>>
>>Including Root, Burns and Hameed, it's 17 different batsmen who have
>>played at least 3 innings as opener (that was to exclude Stokes, who
>>has one innings of 78* as opener, and Leach, 92 & 1, although it also
>>excludes Buttler, 0 & 4) and made their debut in the last 15 years,
>>which excludes Vaughan, Strauss and Cook, who have opened with that
>>period. Pietersen (one innings of 12) is excluded on both counts.
><snip>
>
>So excluding Stokes, Leach has the best average as opener of anyone
>debuting post Strauss and Cook, with 46.5. Clearly he should open in the
>third Test. (I hope I don't need to include a smiley to indicate I'm not
>serious.)

Which is better, two walking wickets or Leach?

Years ago our senior team was so poor (I played senior cricket on that
team so that's a guide) that other teams would sometimes reverse the
batting order when they played us.It never altered any result but it
always made the match more enjoyable.

max.it

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On 18/12/2021 18:33, John Hall wrote:
> In message <j26ftgFa873U1@mid.individual.net>, David North
> <nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>> On 18/12/2021 13:35, max.it wrote:
>>> On Sat, 18 Dec 2021 05:59:59 +0000, David North
>>> <nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> <snip>
>>>>
>>>> Both more or less on a par with, or better than, every other England
>>>> opener who has made his debut in the last 15 years, apart from Root.
>>>>
>>>> The highest averages of the 14 others in the group when opening (min 3
>>>> innings) are Denly 31.33, Compton 31.12 and Robson 30.54. The rest are
>>>> below 29.
>>>  Is that 14 different opening batsmen in 15 years?
>>
>> Including Root, Burns and Hameed, it's 17 different batsmen who have
>> played at least 3 innings as opener (that was to exclude Stokes, who
>> has one innings of 78* as opener, and Leach, 92 & 1, although it also
>> excludes Buttler, 0 & 4) and made their debut in the last 15 years,
>> which excludes Vaughan, Strauss and Cook, who have opened with that
>> period. Pietersen (one innings of 12) is excluded on both counts.
> <snip>
>
> So excluding Stokes, Leach has the best average as opener of anyone
> debuting post Strauss and Cook, with 46.5. Clearly he should open in the
> third Test. (I hope I don't need to include a smiley to indicate I'm not
> serious.)

Well he did survive 9 balls at Brisbane without being dismissed, which
is more than 3 of the top 4 did. ;)

OTOH, Australia's attack is a bit better than Ireland's was, even if
Ireland had bowled England out for 85 in the first innings.

--
David North