I didn't watch the first 2 days, had all the symptoms of covid from the arse to the head. And I tell you this, I still feel absolute shit but had to get out of bed.

Heard that the Poms bowled good but they have nothing upfront in their batting to enable them to compete. So decided to watch the first session and it was something else. I don't think the wicket was easy but to get bowled out for under 100 and lose by an inning is embarrassing and just seeing the look on Stokes's face said it all.

I think the Australian batting leaves a lot to be desired. I would preserve with Green because his bowling gives the bowling attack another attacking option.

Boland was well called by KOK, maybe he will be very useful in the subcontinent Still, there is no guarantee he will play in Sydney. I wonder how many times in successive Tests that a bowler who took 5 wickets in the last
innings was dropped?

btw: ok, I am an old SOB and going on about how Boland is a proud whatever tribe man, well I would guess 90% of his blood is white

On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 11:47:23 AM UTC+10, wlsu...@gmail.com wrote:
> I think the Australian batting leaves a lot to be desired.

Imagine destroying your opposition to only to hear "the winning team's batting isn't very good"...

This is the marked difference between English cricket fans and Aussies.
When the English lose, it's.... "never mind, that's just cricket. Nothing to see here. Nothing to change. Better luck next time chaps!".
When Aus win, it's "yeah yeah, we won. So? It wasn't good enough".

Aus makes a bowling change. He gets a 5-for. Dropped for next game. The guy that replaced him gets a 5-for....
England makes a top order batting change. The guy coming in has averaged 21 over the past 3 years, with a high score of 57.

In message <3bd92f9c-f004-4772-9d85-8a54dc1300c4n@googlegroups.com>,
Will Sutton <wlsutton@gmail.com> writes
>I didn't watch the first 2 days, had all the symptoms of covid from the
>arse to the head. And I tell you this, I still feel absolute shit but
>had to get out of bed.
>
>Heard that the Poms bowled good but they have nothing upfront in their
>batting to enable them to compete. So decided to watch the first
>session and it was something else. I don't think the wicket was easy
>but to get bowled out for under 100 and lose by an inning is
>embarrassing and just seeing the look on Stokes's face said it all.

I wonder if England have lost a 5-Test Ashes series earlier than an hour
into the third day's play of the third Test.
>
>I think the Australian batting leaves a lot to be desired. I would
>preserve with Green because his bowling gives the bowling attack
>another attacking option.

He seems to be a terrific prospect as an all-rounder.

>
>Boland was well called by KOK, maybe he will be very useful in the
>subcontinent Still, there is no guarantee he will play in Sydney. I
>wonder how many times in successive Tests that a bowler who took 5
>wickets in the last
>innings was dropped?

If Hazlewood is fit, it will be very interesting to see who is picked.
Perhaps with the Ashes won, Australia will decide it's time to give
Starc a rest.
>
>btw: ok, I am an old SOB and going on about how Boland is a proud
>whatever tribe man, well I would guess 90% of his blood is white

I was trying to think of a comparably explosive debut by a bowler in
Ashes Tests, and though of Bob Massie's 14 wickets in the Lord's Test of
1972. Hopefully Boland's subsequent Test career will be more successful
than Massie's.
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

In message <5697daf5-c8ad-4771-a4a0-9eadcb67c1a4n@googlegroups.com>,
jack fredricks <jzfredricks@gmail.com> writes
>On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 11:47:23 AM UTC+10, wlsu...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I think the Australian batting leaves a lot to be desired.
>
>Imagine destroying your opposition to only to hear "the winning team's
>batting isn't very good"...
>
>This is the marked difference between English cricket fans and Aussies.
>When the English lose, it's.... "never mind, that's just cricket.
>Nothing to see here. Nothing to change. Better luck next time chaps!".

Huh? What gives you that idea? I seem to remember that after other
similarly shambolic tours of Australia, heads have usually rolled.

>
>When Aus win, it's "yeah yeah, we won. So? It wasn't good enough".
>
>Aus makes a bowling change. He gets a 5-for. Dropped for next game. The
>guy that replaced him gets a 5-for....
>England makes a top order batting change. The guy coming in has
>averaged 21 over the past 3 years, with a high score of 57.
>

It's no secret that England desperately lack capable Test batsmen.
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

On Wednesday, December 29, 2021 at 3:44:45 AM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
> In message <5697daf5-c8ad-4771...@googlegroups.com>,
> jack fredricks <jzfre...@gmail.com> writes
> >On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 11:47:23 AM UTC+10, wlsu...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> I think the Australian batting leaves a lot to be desired.
> >
> >Imagine destroying your opposition to only to hear "the winning team's
> >batting isn't very good"...
> >
> >This is the marked difference between English cricket fans and Aussies.
> >When the English lose, it's.... "never mind, that's just cricket.
> >Nothing to see here. Nothing to change. Better luck next time chaps!".
> Huh? What gives you that idea? I seem to remember that after other
> similarly shambolic tours of Australia, heads have usually rolled.

Dropping players is not the change I'm calling for.

> >When Aus win, it's "yeah yeah, we won. So? It wasn't good enough".
> >
> >Aus makes a bowling change. He gets a 5-for. Dropped for next game. The
> >guy that replaced him gets a 5-for....
> >England makes a top order batting change. The guy coming in has
> >averaged 21 over the past 3 years, with a high score of 57.
> >
> It's no secret that England desperately lack capable Test batsmen.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results....

I've posted countless articles from coaches and players calling for change. I really don't understand why people, including those in this ng, aren't on board.

In message <711963a1-5444-45c7-a8e8-46a05ae4d839n@googlegroups.com>,
jack fredricks <jzfredricks@gmail.com> writes
>I've posted countless articles from coaches and players calling for
>change. I really don't understand why people, including those in this
>ng, aren't on board.

Because, as people have tried to point out, you can't just wave a magic
wand to achieved the desired changes. It's difficult for a number of
reasons, some of them - like climate - insuperable. Yes, there are
improvements can be made (like playing more Championsip matches in high
summer), but the results won't be instant.
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

On Wednesday, December 29, 2021 at 4:24:47 AM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
> In message <711963a1-5444-45c7...@googlegroups.com>,
> jack fredricks <jzfre...@gmail.com> writes
> >I've posted countless articles from coaches and players calling for
> >change. I really don't understand why people, including those in this
> >ng, aren't on board.
> Because, as people have tried to point out, you can't just wave a magic
> wand to achieved the desired changes.

People with little knowledge of pitch preparation.
If someone here actually has such knowledge, show your credentials.
When Bayliss, at-the-time England's cricket coach, called for harder and faster pitches in CC do you think he did so with knowing it was impossible to achieve?
Perhaps the armchair groundsmen in this ng are wrong.

> the results won't be instant.
I have previously said I think the benefits from harder and faster pitches would be a generational change. No one expects instant results.

In message <a235524e-b150-4ece-8ed6-ac27168df820n@googlegroups.com>,
jack fredricks <jzfredricks@gmail.com> writes
>On Wednesday, December 29, 2021 at 4:24:47 AM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
>> In message <711963a1-5444-45c7...@googlegroups.com>,
>> jack fredricks <jzfre...@gmail.com> writes
>> >I've posted countless articles from coaches and players calling for
>> >change. I really don't understand why people, including those in this
>> >ng, aren't on board.
>> Because, as people have tried to point out, you can't just wave a magic
>> wand to achieved the desired changes.
>
>People with little knowledge of pitch preparation.
>If someone here actually has such knowledge, show your credentials.
>
>When Bayliss, at-the-time England's cricket coach, called for harder
>and faster pitches in CC do you think he did so with knowing it was
>impossible to achieve?

I suspect he had no idea whether it was possible or not; it was just
something that he wanted to see. As Mike has pointed out, he had minimal
knowledge of the County Championship.

>Perhaps the armchair groundsmen in this ng are wrong.
>
>> the results won't be instant.
>I have previously said I think the benefits from harder and faster
>pitches would be a generational change. No one expects instant results.

It's true that some of the older and "tireder" pitches on county groups
would benefit from being dug up and relaid. It's a major undertaking,
though, and so perhaps it doesn't happen as often as perhaps it should.
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

On Wednesday, December 29, 2021 at 4:54:48 AM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
> >When Bayliss, at-the-time England's cricket coach, called for harder
> >and faster pitches in CC do you think he did so with knowing it was
> >impossible to achieve?
> I suspect he had no idea whether it was possible or not; it was just
> something that he wanted to see. As Mike has pointed out, he had minimal
> knowledge of the County Championship.

I am incredulous at reading this. To think a national cricket coach knows nothing about pitch preparation *possibilities*. I don't mean getting out there with a roller himself.
I mean having discussed with the groundsmen what can be done.

Sorry, I call bullshit on the idea that Bayliss's pitch knowledge is less than yours and MH's.

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 18:51:57 +0000, John Hall
<john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <a235524e-b150-4ece-8ed6-ac27168df820n@googlegroups.com>,
>jack fredricks <jzfredricks@gmail.com> writes
>>On Wednesday, December 29, 2021 at 4:24:47 AM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
>>> In message <711963a1-5444-45c7...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> jack fredricks <jzfre...@gmail.com> writes

>>> >I've posted countless articles from coaches and players calling for
>>> >change. I really don't understand why people, including those in this
>>> >ng, aren't on board.

>>> Because, as people have tried to point out, you can't just wave a magic
>>> wand to achieved the desired changes.
>>
>>People with little knowledge of pitch preparation.
>>If someone here actually has such knowledge, show your credentials.

I've been preparing cricket pitches for 20 years and as an umpire I
have to grade match pitches as well.

>>When Bayliss, at-the-time England's cricket coach, called for harder
>>and faster pitches in CC do you think he did so with knowing it was
>>impossible to achieve?

No, he just hadn't a clue
>
>I suspect he had no idea whether it was possible or not; it was just
>something that he wanted to see. As Mike has pointed out, he had minimal
>knowledge of the County Championship.
>
>>Perhaps the armchair groundsmen in this ng are wrong.

You are the armchair groundsman

>>> the results won't be instant.
>>I have previously said I think the benefits from harder and faster
>>pitches would be a generational change. No one expects instant results.
>
>It's true that some of the older and "tireder" pitches on county groups
>would benefit from being dug up and relaid. It's a major undertaking,
>though, and so perhaps it doesn't happen as often as perhaps it should.

In the 1930s some grounds used red marl clay bound with a cow shite
solution as a playing surface. These were the shirtfront pitches that
we have heard of. they were flat, fast, true, bouncy and boring.

max.it

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Wednesday, December 29, 2021 at 5:29:49 AM UTC+10, max.it wrote:
> >>When Bayliss, at-the-time England's cricket coach, called for harder
> >>and faster pitches in CC do you think he did so with knowing it was
> >>impossible to achieve?
> No, he just hadn't a clue

Just like dozens of players making the same call? All of them clueless.
Not one of these professional cricketers has ever learnt anything about what kind of pitches can be made.
Not a single shred of knowledge?
Same goes for the ECB, who have called for changes to the pitches...

> >>Perhaps the armchair groundsmen in this ng are wrong.
> You are the armchair groundsman

I've said I don't know anything about pitch preparation.
I just believe those other cricket professionals know more than everyone else in this ng, and I don't think they'd all be calling for change when change was literally impossible.

In message <44omsg1trd3u38eovu17kir7j7ig1bnjj6@4ax.com>, max. it
<max@tea.time> writes
>In the 1930s some grounds used red marl clay bound with a cow shite
>solution as a playing surface. These were the shirtfront pitches that
>we have heard of. they were flat, fast, true, bouncy and boring.

Are you sure they were fast and bouncy? If they were, they shouldn't
have been boring.
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 19:46:45 +0000, John Hall
<john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <44omsg1trd3u38eovu17kir7j7ig1bnjj6@4ax.com>, max. it
><max@tea.time> writes
>>In the 1930s some grounds used red marl clay bound with a cow shite
>>solution as a playing surface. These were the shirtfront pitches that
>>we have heard of. they were flat, fast, true, bouncy and boring.
>
>Are you sure they were fast and bouncy? If they were, they shouldn't
>have been boring.

They weren't. They were dead as doornails.

Cheers,

Mike

On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 20:11:23 +0000, Mike Holmans <spam@jackalope.uk>
wrote:

>On Tue, 28 Dec 2021 19:46:45 +0000, John Hall
><john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <44omsg1trd3u38eovu17kir7j7ig1bnjj6@4ax.com>, max. it
>><max@tea.time> writes
>>>In the 1930s some grounds used red marl clay bound with a cow shite
>>>solution as a playing surface. These were the shirtfront pitches that
>>>we have heard of. they were flat, fast, true, bouncy and boring.
>>
>>Are you sure they were fast and bouncy? If they were, they shouldn't
>>have been boring.
>
>They weren't. They were dead as doornails.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Mike

They would have been faster than the pitches that preceeded them I'm
sure, but not nearly as much fun.
Whatever happened that experiment of treating pitches with upva glue?

max.it

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

> Whatever happened that experiment of treating pitches with upva glue?

https://www.sispitches.com/hybrid-cricket-pitches/

On 28/12/2021 02:44, jack fredricks wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 11:47:23 AM UTC+10, wlsu...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I think the Australian batting leaves a lot to be desired.
>
> Imagine destroying your opposition to only to hear "the winning team's batting isn't very good"...
>
> This is the marked difference between English cricket fans and Aussies.
> When the English lose, it's.... "never mind, that's just cricket. Nothing to see here. Nothing to change. Better luck next time chaps!".
> When Aus win, it's "yeah yeah, we won. So? It wasn't good enough".
>
> Aus makes a bowling change. He gets a 5-for. Dropped for next game. The guy that replaced him gets a 5-for....
> England makes a top order batting change. The guy coming in has averaged 21 over the past 3 years, with a high score of 57.

Australia's top-order batsman with an average of 22 over 3 years came
good when he was needed, so there's always hope. ;) OK, he hadn't played
as many Tests as Bairstow in that time. Bairstow made more runs at
Melbourne than any other England player except Root, btw (not hard, I know).

--
David North

On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 1:47:23 AM UTC, wlsu...@gmail.com wrote:
> I didn't watch the first 2 days, had all the symptoms of covid from the arse to the head. And I tell you this, I still feel absolute shit but had to get out of bed.
>

did u take a test? are u sure its not just a hangover from all the whisky? those can be real bad.

> Boland was well called by KOK, maybe he will be very useful in the subcontinent Still, there is no guarantee he will play in Sydney. I wonder how many times in successive Tests that a bowler who took 5 wickets in the last
> innings was dropped?

oz are spolit for choice between hazel [if fit] Jy and the barrel
>
> btw: ok, I am an old SOB and going on about how Boland is a proud whatever tribe man, well I would guess 90% of his blood is white

i wouldnt say that to his face. i'm pretty sure his blood is 100% red ;)

mike