https://tinyurl.com/yc6r9jbu

Apart from having been snuck in quietly, with very little publicity,
as from July 1 OEMs are legally required to supply independent
repairers with the same service information as their dealerships.
(Which in effect means the information should be available to anyone
who wants it.)

What might be interesting are the obstacles OEMs manage to come up
with to get around a law with the potential to seriously undermine the
profitability of their dealerships.

--
John H

On 16/09/2022 10:17 am, John_H wrote:
> https://tinyurl.com/yc6r9jbu
>
> Apart from having been snuck in quietly, with very little publicity,
> as from July 1 OEMs are legally required to supply independent
> repairers with the same service information as their dealerships.
> (Which in effect means the information should be available to anyone
> who wants it.)
>
> What might be interesting are the obstacles OEMs manage to come up
> with to get around a law with the potential to seriously undermine the
> profitability of their dealerships.
>

**Sounds good to me. Subaru Australia wants $2,500.00 for the service
manual for my Levorg. I assume it is on a CD/DVD-ROM.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On 16/09/2022 10:38 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 16/09/2022 10:17 am, John_H wrote:
>> https://tinyurl.com/yc6r9jbu
>>
>> Apart from having been snuck in quietly, with very little publicity,
>> as from July 1 OEMs are legally required to supply independent
>> repairers with the same service information as their dealerships.
>> (Which in effect means the information should be available to anyone
>> who wants it.)
>>
>> What might be interesting are the obstacles OEMs manage to come up
>> with to get around a law with the potential to seriously undermine the
>> profitability of their dealerships.
>>
>
> **Sounds good to me. Subaru Australia wants $2,500.00 for the service
> manual for my Levorg. I assume it is on a CD/DVD-ROM.

Don't expect that to change any time soon.

Talk of such law changes have been around for a while, and while the
idea of forcing manufacturers to hand over data is generally been seen
as a good thing, especially in light of the new car sales world
seemingly heading down the path of online only sales, there is nothing
to stop manufacturers from charging whatever they like for it which
gives then a back handed way of limiting it's availability.

Like they do with your workshop manual for example....

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 16/9/2022 10:17 am, John_H wrote:
> https://tinyurl.com/yc6r9jbu
>
> Apart from having been snuck in quietly, with very little publicity,
> as from July 1 OEMs are legally required to supply independent
> repairers with the same service information as their dealerships.
> (Which in effect means the information should be available to anyone
> who wants it.)
>
> What might be interesting are the obstacles OEMs manage to come up
> with to get around a law with the potential to seriously undermine the
> profitability of their dealerships.
>

Excellent news although so far I've never had much problem finding
information I've needed to fix any car.
Most likely the new law will help people who work on much newer cars
than the ones I usually get to work on.
This week some friends picked up their new Hyundai plug in hybrid, it
has a 5yr warranty, service intervals are once per year or 15,000km and
the cost is fixed at $300 per service so I doubt that we will need to be
doing any work on it anytime soon so having access to service
information is nice but not all that useful.

--
Daryl

On 16/9/2022 10:38 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 16/09/2022 10:17 am, John_H wrote:
>> https://tinyurl.com/yc6r9jbu
>>
>> Apart from having been snuck in quietly, with very little publicity,
>> as from July 1 OEMs are legally required to supply independent
>> repairers with the same service information as their dealerships.
>> (Which in effect means the information should be available to anyone
>> who wants it.)
>>
>> What might be interesting are the obstacles OEMs manage to come up
>> with to get around a law with the potential to seriously undermine the
>> profitability of their dealerships.
>>
>
> **Sounds good to me. Subaru Australia wants $2,500.00 for the service
> manual for my Levorg. I assume it is on a CD/DVD-ROM.
>
>
I down loaded a full workshop manual for our WRX for free from wrxinfo.com

--
Daryl

Trevor Wilson wrote:
>On 16/09/2022 10:17 am, John_H wrote:
>> https://tinyurl.com/yc6r9jbu
>>
>> Apart from having been snuck in quietly, with very little publicity,
>> as from July 1 OEMs are legally required to supply independent
>> repairers with the same service information as their dealerships.
>> (Which in effect means the information should be available to anyone
>> who wants it.)
>>
>> What might be interesting are the obstacles OEMs manage to come up
>> with to get around a law with the potential to seriously undermine the
>> profitability of their dealerships.
>>
>
>**Sounds good to me. Subaru Australia wants $2,500.00 for the service
>manual for my Levorg. I assume it is on a CD/DVD-ROM.

That doesn't sound like a fair price (as required by the law) in that
an independent repairer would need to charge exorbitant rates in order
to recover their costs.

Historically Subaru service manuals have been easy to come by as there
used to be a Russian site where you could download them as a pdf file
for free but it's been closed for quite a while now. These days
dealers claim manuals aren't available on CD, or as a pdf file, and
can only be accessed via the manufacturer's website but I'm not sure
if that's entirely true based on a very recent experience.

My business has just taken delivery of a skid steer loader that'd been
ordered months ago when the full extent of the pending legislation
probably wasn't known. The deal included a service manual but by the
time it got here the law had obviously been restricted to cars so they
came the usual trick of claiming there was no manual available in
either printed or digital format. Our response being... either you
supply a manual, as promised, or we don't take delivery and since it
was also ordered with a number of attachments they would've had to
find another buyer for they were caught between a rock and a hard
place.

The manual came on a USB stick, AFAIK at no cost to the dealer..

--
John H

Daryl wrote:
>On 16/9/2022 10:17 am, John_H wrote:
>> https://tinyurl.com/yc6r9jbu
>>
>> Apart from having been snuck in quietly, with very little publicity,
>> as from July 1 OEMs are legally required to supply independent
>> repairers with the same service information as their dealerships.
>> (Which in effect means the information should be available to anyone
>> who wants it.)
>>
>
>Excellent news although so far I've never had much problem finding
>information I've needed to fix any car.
>Most likely the new law will help people who work on much newer cars
>than the ones I usually get to work on.
>This week some friends picked up their new Hyundai plug in hybrid, it
>has a 5yr warranty, service intervals are once per year or 15,000km and
>the cost is fixed at $300 per service so I doubt that we will need to be
>doing any work on it anytime soon so having access to service
>information is nice but not all that useful.

The law specifically excludes "safety information", as applied to high
voltage componentry in EVs, but I'd be very surprised if the dealers
get that information either as there's very few people currently
qualified to work in those areas. Same reason it's virtually
unaffordable to have an IC engined car converted to an EV.

Presumably if an EV shits itself internally it goes back to the
manufacturer?

--
John H

On 16/9/2022 2:25 pm, John_H wrote:
> Daryl wrote:
>> On 16/9/2022 10:17 am, John_H wrote:
>>> https://tinyurl.com/yc6r9jbu
>>>
>>> Apart from having been snuck in quietly, with very little publicity,
>>> as from July 1 OEMs are legally required to supply independent
>>> repairers with the same service information as their dealerships.
>>> (Which in effect means the information should be available to anyone
>>> who wants it.)
>>>
>>
>> Excellent news although so far I've never had much problem finding
>> information I've needed to fix any car.
>> Most likely the new law will help people who work on much newer cars
>> than the ones I usually get to work on.
>> This week some friends picked up their new Hyundai plug in hybrid, it
>> has a 5yr warranty, service intervals are once per year or 15,000km and
>> the cost is fixed at $300 per service so I doubt that we will need to be
>> doing any work on it anytime soon so having access to service
>> information is nice but not all that useful.
>
> The law specifically excludes "safety information", as applied to high
> voltage componentry in EVs, but I'd be very surprised if the dealers
> get that information either as there's very few people currently
> qualified to work in those areas. Same reason it's virtually
> unaffordable to have an IC engined car converted to an EV.
>
> Presumably if an EV shits itself internally it goes back to the
> manufacturer?
>
Can't see that happening. You see, an EV also encapsulates hybrids and
plug in hybrids. All operate with DC voltages in the hundreds of volts
*DC*. I know that Toyota mechanics can be trained up on hybrids and
PHEVs. I'd expect at least one mechanic/technician per dealership, at a
minimum, would have spent time at the Toyota training school being
trained in high voltage DC electrics. General motor mechanics and auto
electricians aren't qualified to work above DC voltages of around 60V.

The training exists in this country;

https://training.gov.au/Training/Details/AURETH4003

How many people are doing the relevant BEV training? Don't know. Does
said training include a relevant *licence* as exists for electricians?
Again, don't know.

I don't know what the status of the Aussie law is currently for any
unsuitably qualified mechanic tinkering with a hybrid's *orange coloured
wires*. I suppose it will take a mechanic turning himself into an arc
welding electrode before anyone gets serious about the risks.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 16/09/2022 8:38 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 16/09/2022 10:17 am, John_H wrote:
>> https://tinyurl.com/yc6r9jbu
>>
>> Apart from having been snuck in quietly, with very little publicity,
>> as from July 1 OEMs are legally required to supply independent
>> repairers with the same service information as their dealerships.
>> (Which in effect means the information should be available to anyone
>> who wants it.)
>>
>> What might be interesting are the obstacles OEMs manage to come up
>> with to get around a law with the potential to seriously undermine the
>> profitability of their dealerships.
>>
>
> **Sounds good to me. Subaru Australia wants $2,500.00 for the service
> manual for my Levorg. I assume it is on a CD/DVD-ROM.
>
>

Unless Subary is still in the dark ages it will be a subscription based.
Dealers have always paid a large chunk for service information, it's
great that anyone can get it but expect to pay what dealers do to get it
- and it won't be cheap.

--
keith on the 7 Oct 2021 wrote;
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if
it is unproven, he is lying."

On 16/09/2022 12:25 pm, John_H wrote:
> Daryl wrote:
>> On 16/9/2022 10:17 am, John_H wrote:
>>> https://tinyurl.com/yc6r9jbu
>>>
>>> Apart from having been snuck in quietly, with very little publicity,
>>> as from July 1 OEMs are legally required to supply independent
>>> repairers with the same service information as their dealerships.
>>> (Which in effect means the information should be available to anyone
>>> who wants it.)
>>>
>>
>> Excellent news although so far I've never had much problem finding
>> information I've needed to fix any car.
>> Most likely the new law will help people who work on much newer cars
>> than the ones I usually get to work on.
>> This week some friends picked up their new Hyundai plug in hybrid, it
>> has a 5yr warranty, service intervals are once per year or 15,000km and
>> the cost is fixed at $300 per service so I doubt that we will need to be
>> doing any work on it anytime soon so having access to service
>> information is nice but not all that useful.
>
> The law specifically excludes "safety information", as applied to high
> voltage componentry in EVs, but I'd be very surprised if the dealers
> get that information either as there's very few people currently
> qualified to work in those areas.

They get the training same as everyone else who wants to do it so they
are qualified to work on them.

Dealership training is always ongoing and where licensing is required
dealership mechanics will be among the first to receive the relevant
training and qualifications.

Same reason it's virtually
> unaffordable to have an IC engined car converted to an EV.
>

It's not economically viable anyway.

> Presumably if an EV shits itself internally it goes back to the
> manufacturer?
>

--
keith on the 7 Oct 2021 wrote;
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if
it is unproven, he is lying."

On 16/9/2022 2:25 pm, John_H wrote:
> Daryl wrote:
>> On 16/9/2022 10:17 am, John_H wrote:
>>> https://tinyurl.com/yc6r9jbu
>>>
>>> Apart from having been snuck in quietly, with very little publicity,
>>> as from July 1 OEMs are legally required to supply independent
>>> repairers with the same service information as their dealerships.
>>> (Which in effect means the information should be available to anyone
>>> who wants it.)
>>>
>>
>> Excellent news although so far I've never had much problem finding
>> information I've needed to fix any car.
>> Most likely the new law will help people who work on much newer cars
>> than the ones I usually get to work on.
>> This week some friends picked up their new Hyundai plug in hybrid, it
>> has a 5yr warranty, service intervals are once per year or 15,000km and
>> the cost is fixed at $300 per service so I doubt that we will need to be
>> doing any work on it anytime soon so having access to service
>> information is nice but not all that useful.
>
> The law specifically excludes "safety information", as applied to high
> voltage componentry in EVs, but I'd be very surprised if the dealers
> get that information either as there's very few people currently
> qualified to work in those areas. Same reason it's virtually
> unaffordable to have an IC engined car converted to an EV.
>
> Presumably if an EV shits itself internally it goes back to the
> manufacturer?
>
Very likely, AFAIK Tesla won't even supply parts to anyone other than
their own dealers.
I currently don't know any mechanics who work at a car dealership but
I'd be very surprised if dealer mechanics weren't receiving training on
Ev's etc, the basics of EV's aren't that complicated, what could be
complicated and specific to each make is diagnosing problems but there
is no reason that the average mechanic couldn't be trained to work on EV's.
As far back as the late 70's electronics was starting to appear in
forklifts so its not something that just appeared in the last few years,
battery operated vehicles have been around for a very long time.

--
Daryl

Xeno wrote:
>On 16/9/2022 2:25 pm, John_H wrote:
>>> On 16/9/2022 10:17 am, John_H wrote:
>>>> https://tinyurl.com/yc6r9jbu
>>
>> The law specifically excludes "safety information", as applied to high
>> voltage componentry in EVs, but I'd be very surprised if the dealers
>> get that information either as there's very few people currently
>> qualified to work in those areas. Same reason it's virtually
>> unaffordable to have an IC engined car converted to an EV.
>>
>> Presumably if an EV shits itself internally it goes back to the
>> manufacturer?
>>
>Can't see that happening. You see, an EV also encapsulates hybrids and
>plug in hybrids. All operate with DC voltages in the hundreds of volts
>*DC*. I know that Toyota mechanics can be trained up on hybrids and
>PHEVs. I'd expect at least one mechanic/technician per dealership, at a
>minimum, would have spent time at the Toyota training school being
>trained in high voltage DC electrics. General motor mechanics and auto
>electricians aren't qualified to work above DC voltages of around 60V.
>
>The training exists in this country;
>
>https://training.gov.au/Training/Details/AURETH4003

In which case what would be the reason for the law excluding access to
the relevant information from independent repairers?...
*Under the legislation, “safety information” refers to the hydrogen,
high-voltage, hybrid, or electric propulsion systems of a vehicle...*

>How many people are doing the relevant BEV training? Don't know. Does
>said training include a relevant *licence* as exists for electricians?
>Again, don't know.

If it doesn't involve a licence whoever gets the information is
irrelevant, and even if there were licensing (which I doubt) why
should it be exclusive to the dealers' lackeys?

Unless the OEMs have already managed to bluff the regulators! :(

>I don't know what the status of the Aussie law is currently for any
>unsuitably qualified mechanic tinkering with a hybrid's *orange coloured
>wires*. I suppose it will take a mechanic turning himself into an arc
>welding electrode before anyone gets serious about the risks.

--
John H

John_H wrote:
>
> The law specifically excludes "safety information", as applied to high
> voltage componentry in EVs, but I'd be very surprised if the dealers
> get that information either as there's very few people currently
> qualified to work in those areas. Same reason it's virtually
> unaffordable to have an IC engined car converted to an EV.
>

I know Tesla use 320 volts or something insane.
There was guy converting old cars to electric with 48-volt motors, which
is safe (not likely to give you a lethal shock). I guess if one of
those chrome-bumper cars got split open, you would be farked anyway.

On 16/9/2022 4:23 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 16/9/2022 2:25 pm, John_H wrote:
>> Daryl wrote:
>>> On 16/9/2022 10:17 am, John_H wrote:
>>>> https://tinyurl.com/yc6r9jbu
>>>>
>>>> Apart from having been snuck in quietly, with very little publicity,
>>>> as from July 1 OEMs are legally required to supply independent
>>>> repairers with the same service information as their dealerships.
>>>> (Which in effect means the information should be available to anyone
>>>> who wants it.)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Excellent news although so far I've never had much problem finding
>>> information I've needed to fix any car.
>>> Most likely the new law will help people who work on much newer cars
>>> than the ones I usually get to work on.
>>> This week some friends picked up their new Hyundai plug in hybrid, it
>>> has a 5yr warranty, service intervals are once per year or 15,000km and
>>> the cost is fixed at $300 per service so I doubt that we will need to be
>>> doing any work on it anytime soon so having access to service
>>> information is nice but not all that useful.
>>
>> The law specifically excludes "safety information", as applied to high
>> voltage componentry in EVs, but I'd be very surprised if the dealers
>> get that information either as there's very few people currently
>> qualified to work in those areas.  Same reason it's virtually
>> unaffordable to have an IC engined car converted to an EV.
>>
>> Presumably if an EV shits itself internally it goes back to the
>> manufacturer?
>>
> Very likely, AFAIK Tesla won't even supply parts to anyone other than
> their own dealers.
> I currently don't know any mechanics who work at a car dealership but

That doesn't surprise me in the least!

> I'd be very surprised if dealer mechanics weren't receiving training on

They are!

> Ev's etc, the basics of EV's aren't that complicated, what could be

Correction, they are complicated. They are way beyond a battery direct
connected to a motor. The control mechanisms are incredibly complicated.

> complicated and specific to each make is diagnosing problems but there
> is no reason that the average mechanic couldn't be trained to work on EV's.

The *average* mechanic these days has trouble diagnosing basic
*electrical* circuitry.

> As far back as the late 70's electronics was starting to appear in
> forklifts so its not something that just appeared in the last few years,
> battery operated vehicles have been around for a very long time.
>
You're comparing a fork lift with *lead acid batteries* to a modern BEV
with lithium ion batteries with their own cooling systems and, in some
case, their own AC system. You're been in Darren's fantasyland too long.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 16/9/2022 5:15 pm, John_H wrote:
> Xeno wrote:
>> On 16/9/2022 2:25 pm, John_H wrote:
>>>> On 16/9/2022 10:17 am, John_H wrote:
>>>>> https://tinyurl.com/yc6r9jbu
>>>
>>> The law specifically excludes "safety information", as applied to high
>>> voltage componentry in EVs, but I'd be very surprised if the dealers
>>> get that information either as there's very few people currently
>>> qualified to work in those areas. Same reason it's virtually
>>> unaffordable to have an IC engined car converted to an EV.
>>>
>>> Presumably if an EV shits itself internally it goes back to the
>>> manufacturer?
>>>
>> Can't see that happening. You see, an EV also encapsulates hybrids and
>> plug in hybrids. All operate with DC voltages in the hundreds of volts
>> *DC*. I know that Toyota mechanics can be trained up on hybrids and
>> PHEVs. I'd expect at least one mechanic/technician per dealership, at a
>> minimum, would have spent time at the Toyota training school being
>> trained in high voltage DC electrics. General motor mechanics and auto
>> electricians aren't qualified to work above DC voltages of around 60V.
>>
>> The training exists in this country;
>>
>> https://training.gov.au/Training/Details/AURETH4003
>
> In which case what would be the reason for the law excluding access to
> the relevant information from independent repairers?...

I have always said access to *information* on a product you own or are
expected to work on should be a *right*.

> *Under the legislation, “safety information” refers to the hydrogen,
> high-voltage, hybrid, or electric propulsion systems of a vehicle...*
>
>> How many people are doing the relevant BEV training? Don't know. Does
>> said training include a relevant *licence* as exists for electricians?
>> Again, don't know.
>
> If it doesn't involve a licence whoever gets the information is
> irrelevant, and even if there were licensing (which I doubt) why
> should it be exclusive to the dealers' lackeys?

I haven't heard if there's any licencing involved but it exists in the
electrical field so it would surprise me if it's not in the automotive
field. I do know that if you play with BEV batteries without knowing
what you are doing, you are quite literally playing with fire.
>
> Unless the OEMs have already managed to bluff the regulators! :(

That wouldn't surprise me in the least.
>
>> I don't know what the status of the Aussie law is currently for any
>> unsuitably qualified mechanic tinkering with a hybrid's *orange coloured
>> wires*. I suppose it will take a mechanic turning himself into an arc
>> welding electrode before anyone gets serious about the risks.
>

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 16/9/2022 5:15 pm, John_H wrote:
> Xeno wrote:
>> On 16/9/2022 2:25 pm, John_H wrote:
>>>> On 16/9/2022 10:17 am, John_H wrote:
>>>>> https://tinyurl.com/yc6r9jbu
>>>
>>> The law specifically excludes "safety information", as applied to high
>>> voltage componentry in EVs, but I'd be very surprised if the dealers
>>> get that information either as there's very few people currently
>>> qualified to work in those areas. Same reason it's virtually
>>> unaffordable to have an IC engined car converted to an EV.
>>>
>>> Presumably if an EV shits itself internally it goes back to the
>>> manufacturer?
>>>
>> Can't see that happening. You see, an EV also encapsulates hybrids and
>> plug in hybrids. All operate with DC voltages in the hundreds of volts
>> *DC*. I know that Toyota mechanics can be trained up on hybrids and
>> PHEVs. I'd expect at least one mechanic/technician per dealership, at a
>> minimum, would have spent time at the Toyota training school being
>> trained in high voltage DC electrics. General motor mechanics and auto
>> electricians aren't qualified to work above DC voltages of around 60V.
>>
>> The training exists in this country;
>>
>> https://training.gov.au/Training/Details/AURETH4003
>
> In which case what would be the reason for the law excluding access to
> the relevant information from independent repairers?...
> *Under the legislation, “safety information” refers to the hydrogen,
> high-voltage, hybrid, or electric propulsion systems of a vehicle...*
>
>> How many people are doing the relevant BEV training? Don't know. Does
>> said training include a relevant *licence* as exists for electricians?
>> Again, don't know.
>
> If it doesn't involve a licence whoever gets the information is
> irrelevant, and even if there were licensing (which I doubt) why
> should it be exclusive to the dealers' lackeys?
>
> Unless the OEMs have already managed to bluff the regulators! :(

Which is very likely.
I can't see a problem with the higher voltages as long as the person
working on is trained how to disconnect and isolate the battery.
I've worked with many electricians, quite a few have got shocks from
working on live switchboards so they mostly refuse to do it, hopefully
mechanics work that out without anyone getting zapped.
I've watched YouTube videos of people repairing a faulty Prius battery,
they first had to remove a lot of the cars interior to access the
battery then they unplugged it, removed the battery case cover, found
and replaced the faulty cells then reassembled.
To replace the faulty cells they had to remove the "bus bars" which
joined all the cells together and that dropped the voltage of the area
they were working on down to much safer levels.

>
>> I don't know what the status of the Aussie law is currently for any
>> unsuitably qualified mechanic tinkering with a hybrid's *orange coloured
>> wires*. I suppose it will take a mechanic turning himself into an arc
>> welding electrode before anyone gets serious about the risks.

As recently as yesterday I was looking under the bonnet of a plug in
hybrid, lots of orange wires that were very accessible, unless there was
a problem there would be no reason to touch any of them.
There could be problems some time in the future when EV's start getting
old and they start having issues and untrained people start playing with
things they shouldn't.

--
Daryl

On 16/9/2022 9:01 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 16/9/2022 5:15 pm, John_H wrote:
>> Xeno wrote:
>>> On 16/9/2022 2:25 pm, John_H wrote:
>>>>> On 16/9/2022 10:17 am, John_H wrote:
>>>>>> https://tinyurl.com/yc6r9jbu
>>>>
>>>> The law specifically excludes "safety information", as applied to high
>>>> voltage componentry in EVs, but I'd be very surprised if the dealers
>>>> get that information either as there's very few people currently
>>>> qualified to work in those areas.  Same reason it's virtually
>>>> unaffordable to have an IC engined car converted to an EV.
>>>>
>>>> Presumably if an EV shits itself internally it goes back to the
>>>> manufacturer?
>>>>
>>> Can't see that happening. You see, an EV also encapsulates hybrids and
>>> plug in hybrids. All operate with DC voltages in the hundreds of volts
>>> *DC*. I know that Toyota mechanics can be trained up on hybrids and
>>> PHEVs. I'd expect at least one mechanic/technician per dealership, at a
>>> minimum, would have spent time at the Toyota training school being
>>> trained in high voltage DC electrics. General motor mechanics and auto
>>> electricians aren't qualified to work above DC voltages of around 60V.
>>>
>>> The training exists in this country;
>>>
>>> https://training.gov.au/Training/Details/AURETH4003
>>
>> In which case what would be the reason for the law excluding access to
>> the relevant information from independent repairers?...
>> *Under the legislation, “safety information” refers to the hydrogen,
>> high-voltage, hybrid, or electric propulsion systems of a vehicle...*
>>
>>> How many people are doing the relevant BEV training? Don't know. Does
>>> said training include a relevant *licence* as exists for electricians?
>>> Again, don't know.
>>
>> If it doesn't involve a licence whoever gets the information is
>> irrelevant, and even if there were licensing (which I doubt) why
>> should it be exclusive to the dealers' lackeys?
>>
>> Unless the OEMs have already managed to bluff the regulators!  :(
>
> Which is very likely.
> I can't see a problem with the higher voltages as long as the person
> working on is trained how to disconnect and isolate the battery.

Which is why you won't be working on one any time soon. FFS, not only
are those voltages higher, they are *DC*. Do you understand the
ramifications of that? It's a whole different ball game compared to AC.
BEVs, PHEVs and Hybrids typically operate on voltage between 200VDC and
*800VDC* and those voltage can push one hell of a lot of current. You
accidentally short out something, that something can literally disappear
in a flash of molten metal. Those batteries can flow a hell of a lot of
current and if you accidentally short circuit one you can cause the
battery to swell leading to a rupture, explosion and fire.

> I've worked with many electricians, quite a few have got shocks from
> working on live switchboards so they mostly refuse to do it, hopefully
> mechanics work that out without anyone getting zapped.

If a mechanic gets a zap from 800VDC, they will be unlikely to be
working on anything in the future. If the mechanic hasn't been trained
and hasn't the correct protective gear and tools, then they should stay
away from BEVs, PHEVs and Hybrids - leave the task to properly trained
professionals. Hell, you even need very special gloves when working on
those batteries.

> I've watched YouTube videos of people repairing a faulty Prius battery,
> they first had to remove a lot of the cars interior to access the
> battery then they unplugged it, removed the battery case cover, found

They should have located the isolator(s) *first* and isolated those
batteries from the rest of the car's circuitry.

> and replaced the faulty cells then reassembled.
> To replace the faulty cells they had to remove the "bus bars" which
> joined all the cells together and that dropped the voltage of the area
> they were working on down to much safer levels.
>
There is no safe level when you're dealing with lithium batteries. Even
a single battery can pump enough current to initiate a fire.
>>
>>> I don't know what the status of the Aussie law is currently for any
>>> unsuitably qualified mechanic tinkering with a hybrid's *orange coloured
>>> wires*. I suppose it will take a mechanic turning himself into an arc
>>> welding electrode before anyone gets serious about the risks.
>
>
> As recently as yesterday I was looking under the bonnet of a plug in
> hybrid, lots of orange wires that were very accessible, unless there was
> a problem there would be no reason to touch any of them.
> There could be problems some time in the future when EV's start getting
> old and they start having issues and untrained people start playing with
> things they shouldn't.

You nailed it there! Were you thinking of Darren when you wrote that?

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)